Bookwild - Alma Katsu's Fiend: Family Wealth, a Family Curse, and Family Horror

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

This week, I talk with Alma Katsu about her new horror novel Fiend. We dive into her inspiration for the story, what draws her to horror, and how she crafted this insidious family.**Every tech issue that could happen did happen, so there's a somewhat rough cut when we had to switch platforms.Fiend by Alma Katsu SynopsisImagine if the Sackler family had a demon at their beck and call.The Berisha family runs one of the largest import-export companies in the world, and they’ve always been lucky. Their rivals suffer strokes. Inconvenient buildings catch on fire. Earthquakes swallow up manufacturing plants, destroying harmful evidence. Things always seem to work out for the Berishas. They’re blessed.At least that is what Zef, the patriarch, has always told his three children. And each of them knows their place in the family—Dardan, as the only male heir, must prepare to take over as keeper of the Berisha secrets, Maris’s most powerful contribution, much to her dismay, will be to marry strategically, and Nora’s job, as the youngest, is to just stay out of the way. But when things stop going as planned, and the family blessing starts looking more like a curse, the Berishas begin to splinter, each hatching their own secret scheme. They didn’t get to be one of the richest families in the world without spilling a little blood, but this time, it might be their own. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

This week I got to talk with Onil Katsu about her new horror kind of thriller genre bender themed, which is basically like if Succession had horror elements. So you know I was excited for this one. Imagine if the Stackler family had a demon at their beck and calm. The Berisha family runs one of the largest import export companies in the world, and they've always been lucky. Their rivals suffer strokes. Inconvenient buildings catch on fire.

Earthquakes swallow up manufacturing plants, destroying harmful evidence. Things always seem to work out for the Beretius. They're blessed. At least that is what Zeth, the patriarch, has always told his three children, and each of them knows their place in the family. Darden, as the only male heir, must prepare to take over as keeper of the Berisha secrets. Maris' most powerful contribution, much to her dismay, will be to marry strategically, and Nora's job as the youngest is to just stay out of the way.

But when things stop growing is planned and the family blessing starts looking more like a curse, the veritias begin to splinter, each hatching their own secret scheme. They didn't get to be one of the richest families in the world without spilling a little blood, but this time it might be their own. this one is so gothic and also like succession like both of those together with some of these horror elements as well and it was so fun talking to alma about how she built these characters how the idea came to her and how wealthy people can kind of hide in plain sight by being philanthropists through donations so that being said let's hear from all

I am so excited to talk with you about Fiend, but I did want to get to know a little bit more about you before we dive into that. So what was your journey to becoming a writer or like when did you know you wanted to be a writer? Like how did that happen for you? Well, you know, in some ways it was very similar, I think, to what most writers go through. But then if you're going to hear it was very weird. in a very long detour. So like most writers, I was a reader when I was a kid, and I just lived in the library.

And I just assumed that I would write stories someday. And I certainly tried when I was younger. But I ended up going to work for the intelligence community. You know, those three-letter organizations. The TLA is the three-letter acronyms. Yeah. And they didn't really like you doing anything on the outside, as we say. even if it had nothing to do with your job. So I had to stop writing. And I mean, really, I didn't think I would return to it. But I did. When I turned 40, I decided to try writing again. And it took me 10 years to write a book that was saleable. So I was 50 by the time I sold my first book. That's how it started. Wow. That is crazy. And I know, so you write, this was, this is obviously horror. You've written historical horror, but also like action.

So was that influenced by your work there? Were you always interested in those kind of stories? Well, so here's the thing that is also a little like crazy. Most people think, well, why didn't you start by writing spy thriller? Right. You know, why did that come later? Well, because the books I, the book that I, you know, was really driven to write my first book, which was the taker. And that's not even horror. That's more fantasy back then, you know, paranormal romance was much bigger. And while it's not like a traditional paranormal romance, it sort of fell in that thing. But that was already dying out, you know, editors weren't interested in that anymore. So I ended up transitioning.

You know, I've always loved like speculative fiction, horror, dark fiction, not necessarily like, you know, the canon, and horror canon that other people, you know, kind of grew up on. So it was just natural that I would gravitate towards that, I think, as a writer. And I didn't get the chance to write the spy novels until later, after I retired, which was in 2017, my editor at the time at Putnam said, you know, I know you've always wanted to write a spy novel. Why don't you give it a try? Yeah.

That's how that happened. Sometimes you need other people to, like, remind you of like, hey, you wanted to do this. Well, you know, I did early on when I was that 10-year span when I was working on The Taker, I did try to write spy novels because, you know, when I met with editors and agents, they would always say, you know, why aren't you doing this? And they sucked. I mean, they were really bad. And I thought, I just must not have it in me. But, you know, by that point, I had written four books maybe. Yeah, four books. And I thought, you know, I should be able to do this. So I kind of looked at it more as a. you know, a craft issue. I should learn to be able to write that too. Yeah. That's cool. Speaking of crafts, actually, I do always want to know, like, how people approach their writing. So do you plot it? Are you a pancer? Are you in the middle? Do you make yourself right every day? How do you finish writing books? You know, I'm always curious how other authors do it. Right? We all want tips from each other,

you know, it'd be easier. Make this make sense. I mean, honestly, don't we all say, I have no idea how I wrote that last book and now I have to write another one? Right. But it is starting to sink in after so many books. I'm definitely a plotter, especially both the historical horrors and the spy novels are so complex that I have to plot it out. Fein was sort of a welcome relief in that. Yeah, the contemporary part.

Yeah, it was contemporary. I didn't have to, you know, look up a lot of historical details. Yeah. The story idea came to me all at once. I mean, it really just came out wholly formed. Believe me, it's a weird thing. I'll probably never get that lucky again. I do try to write every day or at least edit every day. Something I've tried to put my hands on words every day. I'm just one of those people. I know not everybody needs to and isn't that a gift. Right. Yeah, it helps me at least with a lot of things to stay in a flow with it and not get out of the routine of it, essentially. Yeah. So that makes sense. If I don't write for three days, by the fourth day, I try to get back, it's, you know, I'm rusty. Yeah. It sucks at first.

It takes me a couple days to actually, like, be able to write again. Yeah. Well, I think it's just, it's so intimidating. Like, making something out. of nothing I think is like and so I almost feel like if you're not staying in it then your brain's like oh god what if can I even do this a lot of muscle memory there yeah yeah totally is there was there anything specifically that that draws you to writing I guess in this case to writing horror is there something that's intriguing to you about horror well you know it's a very

honest genre in a lot of ways it's it's about a feeling it's not necessarily about plot or anything like that. Yeah. And so in some respects, it can be really personal. It's just you are tapping into something inside you. And it's luckily very universal too. You know, everybody has fears. Yes.

In a lot of ways, it's, yeah. I mean, I find horror really hard to write, actually. It's much easier for me to write a spy novel. Yeah. Because I don't like cliche in story either. So I want to get to this truthful kernel, right? Yeah. do it as artistic way as I can.

So, yeah, I mean, I love writing horror. The only thing that irritates me is some readers, you know, have this really cliched idea of what horror is. Yeah. Yeah, I was just, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. I was just, I saw Rachel Harrison last night. She was here in Indy, and she was kind of talking about that same thing because, like, even when I recommend her horror, like, it's actually very digestible. horror. It's not gory horror. And I think that might be even kind of what you're talking about is like

sometimes people are thinking of like, I can't think of the director who did like the fall of the House of Usher. Mike Flanagan. All I could think of was Mike. I think some people think all horror is going to be that and it doesn't always have to be. Or even worse, you know, like a saw film or something. Yeah. They think it's just bladder punk and blood and gore. And it's not. Yeah. Especially now it's such a big tent i mean there's just so many and so much of it is so authentic and really you know taps into the human experience yes it's crazy because you know i go to events and there's always at least one person that comes up to me and says why i'd read your book but i don't read horror and i just want to shake them yes yeah i mean first of all there's a lot of thrillers that could

be considered horror a lot of riley sager's stuff totally has paranormal in it, for instance, you know? And there's fewer hard and fast lines than people think. I think so, too, especially with horror. I think that. And then sometimes, like, sometimes speculative fiction, too, like what you were talking about. They both can be so many different things. And then I even don't always know what to say is speculative versus sci-fi because

there's so much, like, crossover there, too. But yeah, the whole genre conversation is always interesting because you, who as a reader you want it because you do kind of want to be able to know what you're getting into. But like sometimes it's like fun to not know too much about a book, but I understand why it needs to be there. Right. No, I agree. I agree. And the thing is, is that I think a lot of times the books that we as readers find most interesting are the ones that are cross genre or not easily definable. Yeah. Yeah. I just read. I just finished one this week called and then she fell by Alicia Elliott. And now it blew my mind. Like it feels like domestic suspense.

It feels like a psychological thriller. It feels like magical realism. Like it had so many things. And it is fun when you blend that together. Which I feel like you did do in Feen. So that is a good segue here. We kind of have like the family saga, definitely intergenerational stuff going on. Kind of a corporate thriller, not necessarily corporate, but there's that part to it.

And then there's obviously the horror. But for me, some of it, it kind of, which is probably similar in a lot of the horror I love, because I love like psychosocial horror is what I've really learned that I really enjoy. So the horror is even a little bit metaphorical in some ways with this story. So you said it kind of came to you all at once. But was there anything that like inspired all of it coming to you? Well, obviously succession. which is funny because when Succession first came out, I tried to watch it and I thought I had to stop.

I mean, the people were just so unlikable. So bad. But by the time the last season rolled around and people were raving about it at that point, I thought, well, let me give it another try. And I loved it. Yeah. The writing is phenomenal. Yeah. You know, I try to watch TV that has great writing, read books that have great writing.

You know, we're always learning from each other. So afterwards, I thought, wouldn't it be great to do a book that had some of these, you know, same elements in it? But really, the inspiration for Feind was kind of the times we're going through culturally as a society where we just adore the wealthy so much. We just put them on a pedestal, you know, all the TV, all the movies, reality shows, social media, whether it's true or not, it's just all about acquiring wealth and showing status. And in this day and age, we see them in front of us and we know they're lying. We know they're eating. We know they're stealing.

And yet people won't point that out. I know. And I got to the point where I was wondering, what would it take? Would I need to see like a devil appear in a cloud of smoke next to the person to know that they were bad? Yeah. And that's where Fien came from. That's cool. That's cool.

I love that. Yeah, because it was, I mean, I think this is definitely. It is in the synopsis. Like, their rivals kind of disappear. And it was reminding me of House of Cards, too, which obviously got a little complicated after the fact with Kevin Spacey. But how we were all talking about it was similar to the Clintons when we were watching that and how their adversaries sometimes just disappeared too.

And I was like, oh, this is too relevant. Yeah. Yeah. the more you learn about these sort of evil dynasties, and that's part of it too. Like we're used to being fed a narrative and, you know, in real life. And we accept it. We don't really know what the truth is. But then when you dig a little bit more and the sacklers are case in point, you know,

then we see it's not the story they're trying to tell. They're spinning it to protect themselves. And I think that happens a lot more than, you know, that's why every day there's a new revelation right in the news yes yeah oh yeah there's a lot lately even just the last 24 hours yes so that that was sort of the big idea behind the book yeah and you know i was really hoping that times had changed enough that readers didn't have to have you know this likable sympathetic character that we understood now that you know sometimes you're mad and you want to read a book that matches that tricky feeling. Yes. Yeah, that's there that's always the tricky part about talking about like

unlikable versus likable characters is like sometimes the point is that they truly are unlikable, not just like the way women get called unlikable for all kinds of reasons, but like truly like sometimes you need these stories about very unlikable people because it's like it's what helps us like see the message in the story sometimes. Yeah. Like, Right now, I think there's a lot of women rage. Yes. Women rage horror for good reason. Yes.

Sometimes you just want that. You just want to be able to say, I'm not alone in my feeling. Yeah, totally. Yes. Yeah. That's what I've been, I've really been reading more horror in general this year. And that is, it's those parts that are like fascinating and intriguing to me about the genre for sure. Yeah.

There's been some really great horror books coming out. the last, I mean, we just had a whole bunch of them come out yesterday. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, going into fall. Today is Wednesday, right? Yes. Yes, I know.

I was doing the same thing. I thought it was Thursday and I was like for the longest time. I was like, oh, no, it's Wednesday. Sorry, you're freezing up on me there. Oh, am I moving now? Let's see. Yep. I see my internet is stalling.

I don't know if you can hear me yet. Let's see if it'll pick up. Oh, am I moving now? You're moving slowly, but your voice is good. Okay. Yeah, our internet has been dipping this week. And it said it reconnected. So we'll move forward and hopefully it's okay.

So what's interesting in Fiend as well is you have the two siblings of this kind of generationally, maybe cursed, maybe just terrible people, family. They're blessed. They're not cursed. They're so blessed. Yes. But Darden and Maris, is it Maris? That's what I was thinking. Okay. They both react to their family stories very differently and like handle it very differently in adulthood. So was that something you kind of wanted to dig into from the beginning is like even how differently siblings

handle their families? Well, I really wanted to show, right, the journeys that they went through. Interestingly, though, I didn't add the kind of what you might call flashback chapters that show them as children. And so later, I mean, it was really important, though, because it helped soften the characters. And you saw them in a more innocent time before what they're doing you could see as evil. And they also had different, you know, path. Darden, the son, started out as a brady rich kid. Like he knew right away. He was privileged and he took advantage of it.

But once he hit the time when he was made the successor, and then that means he gets to share in the family secret, and then the full weight of what he now is inherited and will be responsible for false on his shoulders. And while I didn't spell it out in the book, that's really the turning point for him and why then he decides to try to be good. Whereas with Maris, it's the opposite. Like a lot of girls, right? We start out wanting to be the good girl. We want our parents' approval. That's all she wanted. She was a good kid.

And it wasn't until as she goes along and she's striving for her father's approval, which she's never going to get. And she can't seem to realize that. Yeah. You know, she lets her moral compass sort of go awry. Yeah, totally. It also kind of brings up the questions of is evil inheritable? Is it kind of systemic?

I think we've kind of talked about the system parts. Or, I mean, there's also the supernatural in this case. But was there something there you kind of wanted to talk about with how people, you know, make the decisions that they do? Well, you know, having the kids too was an opportunity to show what I believe, which is, you know, people really aren't born bad. But the circumstances that they're born into, the influence of the people close to them. their family. I think that can shape them over time. And so like in this case, you're in a family that, you know, is not morally good. No. They're not ethical. You know, and this is, again, a reflection of kind of what we see around us, where if you ask somebody what's good, what's good is

what's good for them, not necessarily morally good. And they'll do what's good for them because they think that's their right. You know, and in some cases, yeah, you have the right to try to defend yourself or protect yourself or whatever. But there's certainly instances where you can make a choice that doesn't hurt other people who maybe doesn't benefit you as much as it could. And we just see, I think, more and more people going for self-enrichment. So here we have these kids that are growing up in just the lap of privilege and, you know,

and luxury and wealth. and they're being groomed from an early age for their point of view to be what's good for me is what's good. And I mean, I think it must be almost impossible if you are born into that situation to be a good person. And just look at how many rich, rich people out there are terrible morally. Very few, you know, the Disney air is one of the few I can think of, who really seems to. to be fighting that and really tries to remember that she's a human being. You mentioned already that you did write kind of like the childhood parts after the fact or the flashbacks.

And I'm always fascinated by those. Some people will like write things out of order. What how did like what made you realize you, well, you said what you needed them to accomplish. But how did you kind of decide like how much of that to include? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question because honestly, they are probably like the most engaging parts of the book, those flashbacks, because it really reveals character in them, what they were, you know, before they learned they had to hide their feelings or, you know, be really deceptive. It's almost like candy. You just want more and more of them. Yeah. But I realize it could really overpower the book. Like, yeah. Just like candy will rot your teeth. Yeah. So I had to be really careful about what traits they were that I wanted those instances to reveal. And then figuring out where to put them in was a little tricky too, especially Nora's. Because, you know, we see the least of the youngest daughter, but that's for a reason.

So the couple times when we see her flashbacks, they're super revealing about what happened to her life and why she turned out the way she did, which is different from the other two. from a writer's point of view yeah the craft part was really interesting it was a learning journey you know real challenge yeah the other thing i kind of mentioned it a little bit earlier is you don't really see like because there's the very like gothic horror feeling to it um and then what i talked about a little bit earlier it's also very corporate thriller and you don't typically get those two together and i know you were saying like what if i could just literally tell if someone was evil. Was that kind of what led to blending those genres together? You know, I don't know if there's just like a little touch of Gothic in most of the horror that I write. It does seem to be through.

And maybe it's because, you know, that I really tried to hide the reality of what was going on. Is it a demon? Is it a demon? Is it just a key? An excuse? Am I losing my mind? Until you're pretty well into the book and I don't want to spoil it for anybody. Yeah. But that's part of the Gothic too, where you think there's something weird going on and you're being led up to the veil, right? Where on the other side is this unknown world that we've attacked but didn't know.

So it might just be part of that or could be that really nice, creepy old house that they put the cover. The cover is so cool. If ever, I mean, surely if anyone is listening, the cover is in the part. podcast cover art, but if you haven't seen the cover, you need to go look at it. I am obsessed with the cover. It is so cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. Was there a certain character that was more

fun for you to write or were they all just like fun to get to create their motivations? You know, it was almost like putting the jigsaw puzzle together. Like, you know, the parts have to fit and they just fit together so deliciously. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. I could have gone on and written any of those characters more and enjoyed it. At the same time, the pacing was really important. It had to go fast.

Yes. It looked like somebody was dragging you along by the hand. So they took back and try to figure out what was going on. Yeah, totally. So, oh gosh, I just lost where I was. my whole screen got changed up. Yeah, I think of it is almost like a craft tour to force. Like I had to bring in, you know, so much of what I'd learned from writing previous books

to really try to make this one work. It certainly wasn't cookie cutter for me at least. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's even though like we definitely, even if you didn't watch Succession, we all know the gist of it. So it's still like extremely unique, kind of like I was saying, like you don't really get like this kind of gothic horror with corporate thrillers that often. So it was fun for me to have

that, have both of them together. Wonderful. Yeah. You mentioned the Sackler family and you also mentioned them in your note, but I'm not trying to spoil anything too, but they were a bit of the inspiration as well, is what I'm guessing. Right. I mean, I saw the show Dopesick. And until I saw that, I didn't realize really how bad they were. Like how they orchestrated a whole opioid epidemic, which made millions suffer and tens of thousands die. Yeah. And they were skating, right?

The settlement is still, it hasn't been quite resolved. But if it stands, they're going to get away with no jail time. Yeah. And while they're paying some money, there's certainly still have. plenty of money left. Oh, yeah. Or a family that lied and deceived and killed tens of thousands of people. Yes.

How is that possible? Mm-hmm. I know. I mean, yeah, people, the wealth just really lets you do things in America, at least, is what's so frustrating. Like you're saying, they're not even going to, even financial penalties. It's not the same as like, it's not even in the same stratas. fear of like the effect they had on other people's lives.

Right. Yeah. And the lying. It's interesting. And but and again, it's just part of this weirdness of modern life where you hear these things, but you don't really put it together or maybe you don't believe it for some reason. And it must to sort of slap you in the face for you to understand the depths of what's

really going on. And I don't know if I just take offense in it so much. because I worked in intelligence and you know, you're always struggling to kind of get to the truth of things. And it just bothers me that so many people don't try to get to the truth of things, right? They're more than happy to pretend the Sacklers were okay. Yeah. This day, it's kind of crazy. I think for some people, it feels, I think they can convince themselves that it doesn't affect them enough to care, I guess, is like some of it is what I, is the vibe I get. Like, they're like, well, I can't care about that. I have to take care of myself, which like,

that's not inherently bad. I get that people do have to. But I think like not to get too political, but I think the like proliferation of fake news. Like we all, we all know that there's been spin from families, from people for probably as long as like humans have existed. But in this sense, like in the internet age, like yes, sometimes things are spun. But like, I think. sometimes now it makes people think like, well, you can't believe anything. I'm like, well, we need to be able to believe some things. Yeah. And it's it's such a convenient excuse, right? Oh, that's got to be fake news, mostly just because you don't want to be bothered to be challenged, you know? I know. Yeah, it's very sad. But I remember like a long time ago, I was in one of the

museums that might have been the Sackler down in D.C. when a bunch of protesters ran. in and started, I can't remember what they did exactly, like throwing things in the air and then lying down like dead bodies. Yeah. And I didn't understand why they were doing it. This was sort of early in the whole thing. And I remember just thinking, oh, they couldn't, the Sacklers couldn't have done anything that bad. You know, they are philanthropists. They fund museums, libraries all around the world. And then later I learned as an analyst, this is called reputation management where you, you know, become a philanthropist in order to sort of whitewash the terrible things you did. And it's so common.

Yeah. So common. Yeah, it's kind of a hiding in plain sight type thing. I always think of, and I can't think of what his name is in Breaking Bad. Esposito is the actor. But he's that same thing where he like seems like this pillar of the community. Right. But he is doing terrible things.

And that's like, that's like a whole other conversation that I'm still trying to figure out too for myself is like, I guess like one example, the first one that just came to mind that was difficult for me. We saw the F1 movie in theaters and it was fun. But like also I was sitting there and thinking about like what his, what Brad Pitt's children have said about him. and like they've they've said that he's abused them they've all like removed his last name they've all taken their mom's name and do not talk to him so like at the same time I was sitting there like how horrible would it be to like be someone's child and then like the movie promos were everywhere and you're just seeing like all these people basically worshipping this guy and it's like how do we even keep up with like who does what is the other really difficult part for me sometimes.

Yeah, that's true. But part of what I'm hearing and that whole thing is how easy and it's just society. How easy we blame the victim, right? We don't want to say, could Brad Pitt be a bad guy, right? Right. You don't think your mind immediately goes to, oh, those kids are just exaggerating or, you know, it's whatever, it's fake news. Right. And it's always. so hard for the victim to yeah yeah yeah most people in these like especially children uh you you don't want to not like your parents like it's not something you like wake up one day and you're like you know it would be fun if i just wouldn't know no contact with my parents like no one's trying to do that but there is there's so much that's like oh it's this this generation is dramatic or

all of those things yeah yeah yeah it's just difficult Yeah. And this is part of the lesson of fiend. It's so obvious, right? These parents are abusers. They manipulate their children. They think they're doing it for the right things because the family's culture is that, you know, we keep the secret and we make money and we stay in power. And we do it however we need to. And if you're part of this family, you will do it too. Yeah. So the kids are just groomed into it. I don't think they ever know that there's an alternative. Yeah. Darden realizes it towards the end and look where it gets him. It's not fun being the one to like see reality clearly sometimes. Not in this case. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't really fun. It sounds terrible, but it was a fun story to write because there was just so much I want to try to fit in. in there, but it was like a Jenga tower, you know? Like, things couldn't be revealed too soon. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah, especially when you're kind of the layers that it's like kind of generational

for the family. Like there, it's like how much how much do you show? How much do how much does the reader need to know? And like when do they need to know it? Yeah. I would imagine it's complicated to keep it all, keep it all together. This was easy compared to some of my other books. I guess I said. Oh, yeah. It was so much more direct, right? True. Like a ton of subplots and things like that. Yeah. Yeah.

That makes sense. I'm happy with the way it turned out. Yeah. I mean, I am too. Basically, if you love horror, if you, everyone's hearing me on here talk about my obsession with, like, psychosocial horror. If you're loving that, if you love succession, I think you will love this. So everyone needs to go read it. I do always ask.

at the end if you've read anything recently that you've liked. Or I know sometimes people are, if they're writing, they don't. But I do always ask. Well, I have to read a lot. I mean, on one hand, I love to read things that are, that I'm going to learn something from, right? I think about the writing, the way the writer handled a particular issue, that sort of thing. And I get asked to blurb a lot. So I'm always reading.

Well, one thing is it's an anthology that I was in that just came out a little while. ago came out in August. It's the end of the world as we know it. Okay. The anthology that's based on the world of Stephen King's novel, The Stand. It was like for the 45th anniversary. So they got 30 some odd of us, not all horror writers. We had some thriller writers too, like Sean Cosby. Oh, he's fantastic. He's fantastic. We had amazing writers for this. Yeah. So it's real, I mean, it's been sort of a historical thing. It was an instant New York Times bestseller and it's made bestseller. And it's made bestseller of us around the world. Yeah.

And Stephen King wrote the introduction for it, which was pretty cool. Yeah. It really is a good read. If you like the stand, if you love the stand, if you like the stand, you really should read this anthology. If you haven't heard about it, go out and find it. Yeah. Really, some of the stories in it are just a tour to force.

Yeah. I've been wanting to read more short stories just because I'm having to have a story. a hiccup attack um should i scare you please too uh yeah i'm just fascinated by it it's it's like the the pacing and the structure like it's so different so i've been interested in them more so now i know what i'm going to go request on liby when when we wrap up well you know i agree i started out um i was never really a short story writer when i went to grad school of course you write some short stories. But I always thought of myself as a novelist because that's where the contracts were. But once I got into horror, there's much more opportunities because anthologies are really

just built into the fabric of the horror community. Yeah. So yeah, I've been writing more and reading more and really enjoying it. Like you said, it's it's just a completely different way to do storytelling. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of, I mean, there's always symbolism and horror, but I feel like there's so much symbolism and stuff happening too in like the shorter stories to kind of like get the vibes going even. Yes. Yeah. It's almost like a short hand way to like move this story along. Yeah, totally. Well, I'm going to be, I'm definitely going to be reading that one. I'm excited to just hear all the different stuff there. Where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything? Well, probably the best way is to subscribe to my substack because social media.

the algorithms it's all messed up. The only reliable way to follow me is by subscribing to my newsletter. So just go to Substack, look for all Makatsu. There it'll be. Okay. You appreciate it. Yes, I love that. I will put that link in the show notes as well as for the end of the world as we know it as well if anyone else wants to read that. But thank you so much for talking with me about Feend. Thank you for having me. This has been tons of fun. Same. Thank you.