Bookwild - Books We Wish We Could Forget and Reread with Gare and Steph

Episode Date: September 19, 2026

This week, Gare, Steph and I share books we wish we could wipe from our brains and reread!Kate’s BooksNever Saw Me Coming by Vera KurianThe Ursulina by Brian FreemanBut Won’t I Miss Me by Tiffany Tsao Gare’s BooksFruit Fly by Josh SilverThe Last Winter of Dani Lansing by P.D. VinerA Density of Souls by Christopher Rice Steph’s BooksThe Push by Ashley AudrainMadwoman by Chelsea BiekerNotes on Your Sudden Disappearance by Allison Espach  All the Bookwild Links:Check Out the Bookwild SubstackSubscribe to Bookwild on YouTubeGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramCheck Out Author Social Media Packages Follow Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mbaErin Ashley @bellametaphor

We have the trio back or T. Elsie, I says Stefan Gare. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I am so excited. I had to cancel like mostly my buddy episodes through this whole recovery journey, which is fine. But I'm happy to be with my friends again. That's basically what I'm saying. Yay. Yeah, me too. We're happy to be here with you.

Yeah. I feel like I haven't seen stuff. summer. I know. You haven't. I know. I hear it. It's not a feeling. It's a fact. It's been insane. So I'm happy to be here. Me too. I miss our little trio. I know. Because I'm actually like I am eyeballs 48 pages into a new book, which is really, really big for me. It is. Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes reading just changes as your life changes. as we all know yeah thank god for audio but also i'm like i it's the new these sweet folks that i'm talking to gifted me uh the new rachel harrison and my little millennial heart is fucking cracking up in the first couple chapters like so i think it's so it's it is the perfect

dry humor for me yes yeah i have laughed out loud so many times it is exactly what i needed and Wyatt kill me. I had so much fun reading it. Oh. I will tell you guys that one of my favorite songs in college was Love in this Club by Usher. That's awesome. And the instrumental of them walking down the aisle was they're like, is this love in the club? And I was so happy.

I was like, this is what I meant to be reading right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, oh, my God. I love her so much. Oh, my gosh. It's such a fun book. For anyone who just doesn't obsess over her as much as us, it's called Kiss Lay Replay.

It is a time loop horror novel. And also, I got to see her, thus got to get stuff a signed copy. And she even said when she got the idea, she was like, because she hates time loops. So this is just my PSA to everyone that like, if you're like a time loop, it almost doesn't. even feel like a time loop because it's so creative and different is what I'm here to say. So yeah. I think Claire had an extra copy. So he sent it to me and then I got it personalized because bookish things are the best.

Group effort. Well, I think it's funny you say that because I think we've talked about this probably multiple times of how like certain authors you'll read it anyway. Like I don't know how I feel about time loops or like certain tropes, but there's certain things and I'm like, if Rachel Harrison does it or maybe Lisa Jewel does it, I'll probably read it anyway and it'll probably be great. Yes, I agree. I love the movie Happy Death Day. Yeah.

And like, so I was like, this is definitely one that I have to read because like I think that movie is so fucking funny and like it's just like such a fun time. And I had like a very similar experience reading the book as I did like watching that movie. Because I was like, this is so like, I was like, is this going to be annoying? to like watch the same scene over and over and over again but then I was like oh my god this is so fun and then when I was reading the book and it started happening I was like this is so much fun yeah it's incredible because obviously like most people think of just like groundhog's day right and so I have not heard of happy death day oh happy death day is so much fun it's like this really bitchy sorority girl gets like murdered and then like every day

she like keeps like waking up and trying to like not die but also like figure out who's trying to kill her yeah and but like she's such a bitch that like it could literally be anyone yes it's like hilarious too it's like a good combo yeah it's like mean girls and heather meets like scream and like away like it's just yeah it's crazy that it's on peacock HBO max and Hulu and then there's like other movies I want to watch that are on nothing unless you pay for it. Right. Yeah. It's so weird.

Do you have a somewhat icebreaker? I do. And it's kind of related to like what we've been talking about. I get all of these millennial TikToks all the time about like do I still have it. And it's people like rapping verses to like 90s and early 2000 songs. and I was like I always have to stop and be like do I still got it like do I still remember like

Lil Kim Eve Trina like all of these like rappers so I was thinking about this how like I don't know if it's pots because like one of the things with pots is that you get like really bad brain fog so sometimes in the middle of a sentence or a thought like I will be like what is the word

I'm looking for what is the word I'm looking for but do you ever find like anything that is like really funny or like something that you didn't expect to like happen to you with age like I can remember all of these wraps from like 20 25 years ago but then like I'm like oh my god what did I have for dinner last night and like literally can't remember and it takes me like forever so I was like now that I'm rapidly approaching 40 I'm like maybe this whole memory thing as you get older is like fact not fiction and I'm kind of like laughing at the fact that I'm to be that little old man in like two months that like doesn't remember where he put his glasses.

Oh my gosh. You hit really close to home right now. I literally was at the grocery store and I like this I like tap my card. I know I did and ladies like, okay, we're ready. And I'm like, did I not just tap it? And I was like, I sort of got him, Dory from finding Nemo. And she's like, I feel you. But actually I had tapped it. But she was like, I was like, I just was telling someone how I feel that way all the time lately. And it's so different for me because I'm usually like very organized and like good at that kind of stuff. So, but I know all the words to bitch by Meredith Brooks. I just noticed the other day.

But I was like, I don't know. Yes. She's like, yes. Yes. If it makes you feel any better. Like I live in a very small town and the gas station that is like closest to me, we like know most of the people that work there. And they just got new gas pumps put in.

And my mom was hanging out and she's like, Erica sent me a message from the gas station. She wants me to come by and talk to her about something. And I was like, that's weird. So my mom went and Erica was like, I just didn't know if you knew, like, if you needed me to help you with the new gas pumps. Because this week when you got gas and last week when you got gas, you never paid. I didn't let her get it. So, huh? How does it let her pump?

Yeah. Because they are, so they used to be the old pump. So you would have to pump your gas and then go and pay inside. Uh-huh. And now they have ones where, oh, yay. And now they have ones where if you tap or insert your card, you can pay at the pump. But if you don't tap or insert your card before you pick up the gas pump, you have to go pay inside. So like she tapped her card and thought that it took the card and it didn't.

And so she paid for her gas. and then just took off. Wait, she did pay for it? No, if you, if you go to the gas pump and you insert your card or you tap your card first, you can pay at the pump. But if you don't do that and you just start pumping your gas, you have to go pay inside. I can't believe it. Let's her.

Yeah. We've never been able to here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you have to go through the whole payment process before. Well, so the reservation is kind of like, New Jersey, like most of the places that you go to, you cannot pump your own gas. You have people pump your gas for you. So I think that like there's like a general pump that like they allow people

to have either option. You're not allowed to pump gas in New Jersey. Oregon used to be like that too. A lot of places in New Jersey, you don't pump your own gas. There's a gas attendant who pumps your own gas for you. Oh, that's wild. And it's the same thing here. Like this is probably this is probably the only place close to me that you can you can pump your own gas. Wild. Yeah. Yeah. Most of the places I go to get my gas, I don't pump it.

It's just such an interesting thing because I'm like, if you have a machine that makes you pay first, then fine. But I guess if they have like outdated machines, then there's nothing stopping anyone from. right bolting I guess like yeah I don't know interesting

not me not knowing about gas etiquette well it's weird to go on a vacation to a place or travel to a place where yeah

like that because you're just like can I've never had it happen I don't know that's fascinating well what made me feel very old

or aging whatever recently is I haven't read a physical book since high school until recently. Because it was always Kindle or audio? Correct. Recently, it was the only option that I had.

And I was like, I can do this. It's the only option. I don't know how you people are reading that text. It is so freaking tiny. Like, I'm 33. Like, how are you guys reading text that small? Some are worse than others. I hated it.

I hated the general experience of it. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, are my eyes dying on me? But, like, it's not like I can't see things, but it just, the text is so small. I was just, I can't do it. I can't. There was this one piece of jewel book that I, like, put on my libyhold. And I, like, did everything possible to not double

pay for the book but to read it on my Kindle because it was such a small not spaced out font and I ended up reading it and I got used to it but then I'll read other books where at least it's like nicely spaced and a little bit bigger. I'm like Jesus age. Okay so there is some variation yes yeah yeah I didn't realize that I knew you could get like large print for some books and obviously I would need to but I didn't know that it varied. Some paperbacks, especially if they're trying to make it a little more compact. Or like mass barricades. Like the paperback of the shards you would hate because it's like tiny and they're like,

they're like really thin Bible pages. Those pages suck. Yeah. Ooh. Not for me. I was texting gear and I'm just, I've decided I'm just completely techie backy. I can't do real paper and tiny words. But I think that's one of the like benefits of having a Kindle.

Like I used to not really think I would want one. And now I like have a friend of a woman in one of my book clubs who's having like major eye issues. And it's like I don't think she could. Oh yeah. Enjoy reading anymore without really big font. And so I think it's really important. Yeah. I was the opposite because when Kate was like texting you about it, I was like, I just don't know.

I don't notice a huge difference. Like I read faster on my Kindle, but like I don't know. And she's like, what do you mean you don't notice a difference? And I was like, my Kindle font, like the size of it is like basically the same size as the font in a book. And she was like, are you kidding me? This is the size of mine. And I was like, she was like offended. It was like, it was like I told her I voted for Trump.

She was like, are you kidding? She was like, your font is that small. And I was like, yes, my font is that small. For everyone on YouTube, this is how large my font is when I'm reading on my Kindle app on my phone. Mine's gotten bigger and then bigger. It's probably like 20 to 22 pixel. And this is mine.

Oh my God. Ew. And Geras is like eight or something. At this point though, like what's the, if you have a Kindle, like, right. I'm curious why you choose to keep it. that size gear or did you just keep it the size that it was initially when you oh my god i'm just used to like yeah i guess you read physical because i read physical books so much so like when i'm reading if it's like too big i'm like turn the page turn the page turn the page because it's like you know

what i mean but yeah i also like i also get bitched out by my friends because like i have because i'm petty. I've like sent my friend Nicole like screenshots before when I'm like arguing with someone. And she's like, why is your font on your phone so small? Yeah. It's too small. Look at like. Like even on my like text messages like on my screenshot, she's like you can fit like a three page conversation on that. Oh. That is insane. This is like the text different size difference people. like this is so tiny but it was and i've been i've been the opposite like because i'm such a paperback snob that like if i oh yeah then you're really used to it yeah like if i cannot get access to a book in paperback i will try to read it on my kindle or i will throw a fit until i can

get it from like um blackwells in the uk or something and i've accidentally gotten large font because most large font books come in paperback like the large print or whatever and then I've gotten it and I'm like this is so big I can't read it. That's what I think this is awesome. Kate would beat me over the head with the book. Yeah I'd be like give it to me it. I'm like this font is way too big. I can't do this. Wow. Yeah. It's so fascinating and like the other thing I was realizing is like I'm used to being able to lay down and I can hold a phone or I can have my iPad or my Kindle and a page turner. Like I and it was hard back. That's the other thing. Like it's a heavy long book, but it was the only option I had. Let's just say I'm glad the book is out today because I have

already switched over. Oh, you already dead. Hell yeah. this is enough enough she's like I'm not fucking doing this anymore yeah oh my gosh it's so funny though like it's like just like you're reading

like tastes can change like how you read well I don't know if it's ever gonna change for me but we all read so differently even like in the medium right I prefer paperback or Kindle like getting big little

truths I'm laughing. Getting big little truce and like hardcover was like extremely uncomfortable because it was so heavy. And I was like, my fingers are so sore from holding this book. Like I am such a dainty little flower. Yes. But I also, I'm laughing because everybody knows I'm close to Canada. And when I bought big little truce, it actually came out in hardcover, which is unusual in Canada. Usually they come out on paperback. But it was like special edition, like, inlay. And like, the only thing that's different from this in the U.S. version is the water. Oh. And the inside of the cover, literally that's it.

Oh, my gosh. I was like, well, I'm glad I live close to Canada because if I would have, like, ordered a Canadian cover or, like, driven farther than, like, 15 minutes to get that copy, I would have been, like... The fuck. Are we in real? is this better have come with a pool or Alexander Scar's card I would take it I would too

I think Steph brought up the idea of doing books that we wish we could like wipe our brains and reread yeah I was talking to a friend I was talking to a friend I think I was talking about my neck galley and I had the new Ashley Should I just go first?

You can't so I don't think Because I was like I'm going to say it anyway I don't even really want to explain it all Can I just go? I guess it would spoil it But I was like I was saying I have the new Ashley Audraines And she was like

Oh that's so exciting And we were both talking about how like I wish we could like The feeling that the push gave when we both read it, we were like, God, I wish I could like wipe my brain and read that for the first time because it was like, I didn't think I would like it. I don't usually relate to books about motherhood, which it is very much about. I really wasn't sure about it. And I was so sucked in. And I was like, it was so unlike anything I had ever read before. And I think a lot of people that love that book, like, really feel that way where it's like, holy shit. And so I was like that reading experience. And so I was like that reading experience. just I remember being like, whoa. Yeah. So that was like what brought this up for maybe a topic was like I was just talking about it.

I don't usually talk about potential topics with my friends. So I was like maybe that would be a good one. Yeah. Well, I just have to say this is like some perfect synchronicity that you even just brought that one up. because the first one that I chose, I literally just finished it two days ago. Two days ago. But it was one that I am comping to the push. Really?

There were so many similarities to what you said where like there are plenty of thrillers about motherhood that I have enjoyed, obviously. But sometimes you're like, I don't know, will I? And so I kind of went into it like, I have. think I think I would like this. I like binged it in like 24 hours like via audio. But it's called But Won't I Miss Me by Tiffany? So. And okay, I'm just going to read it. This short thing and not spoil anything. But in a transformed world where childbirth causes women to birth stronger identical versions of themselves who consume and replace them, Veevi survives the process only to emerge weaker and abandoned by her husband.

Struggling to raise her son alone, she begins uncovering the truth about what went wrong during her rebirth, a discovery that reshapes everything she understands about her past, present, and future. It is, like, I thought the setting itself or the setup itself was very compelling, this concept of it, but it's like literally, almost like instead of a placenta, you, like, birth a version of yourself that then, like, grows in, like, five hours to, like, like, like a perfect replica of you and then it eats you and for the first five years it's really fascinating what she does to talk about motherhood they don't need sleep um they're like perfectly attuned to

their kids needs they know exactly what they want um they have like supercharged strength so it's like all the all of the things we kind of force on moms like oh they're super humans and you're like no it's a person who just like pushed a baby out of them um but she like really really really discovered like um what is the word i'm looking for see now i'm forgetting words like explores all of that so much the way that we're like oh moms are superhuman so they can just do it all when really like a lot of them are extremely exhausted and then the other thing she does a great job of exploring is that idea of motherhood consuming your former self and the life you would have had before. It is so good. It's some of my favorite literary speculative horror that I've read

ever. What is it called again? But won't I miss me? And the cover is just fantastic. So are obviously praying mantises eat does the woman eat? I can't remember what it is with praying mantis, but the cover is definitely an homage to like animals that eat themselves or yeah. I love that cover. Oh, it eats the husband. That's what it is. A female praying mantis will sometimes eat her mate during or after mating.

No, she should. Did you ever see the buffy about that? I did. I probably did. So yeah, you really, you really teed me up really perfectly for that. Oh, good. There's a lot of five stars on here. I know.

Almost everyone who read it has loved it, but not enough people have read it. So I'm about to be obnoxious about it. This is interesting. It says if Nightbitch and the Substance had a terrifying philosophical baby. It's a pretty good. I would say I still enjoyed this more than night bitch but I completely understand the cop. Interesting. Yeah.

Huh. There was a reveal at 50% that I was not like my jaw drops. I just listening along and all of a sudden was like, wait, what? So that it adds to how like it would be fun to wipe my brain of it and re-read it. Oh. Literally, it's in the, at least on Goodreads. It then says, an inspired blend of Nightbitch and the Substance. I guess that person, that review may be read that.

I think so. I think so. Oh, my gosh. Wow. I love that cover. I love the cover. Now I really want a trophy copy. Oh, for sure.

Is this a debut? Yes. she's a translator and an editor she translates books i think from indonesian to english wow yeah i saw somebody else posting about it recently too oh really that makes me happy because i saw i don't know if it was on ticto or if it was on instagram but i like saw the cover and i was like oh my god that cover is amazing and then i like looked up the book and i was like i don't know if this is for me i know because it's a little horror speculative and that's incredible it's incredible i don't know if i would i don't know if i would recommend it to you it is

short enough and it's not as like there's lots to think about but it's not as mind bending as it sounds okay but i don't know if i wouldn't like push it on you as like oh my gosh this is book for gear yeah someone that gave a five stars said this was my first time reading what i would consider to be speculative horror although it was often towing the line between horror and sci-fi. Mm-hmm. So I wonder if it's like a stepping stone. Yeah.

Maybe. Yes. It's much more like, I would say speculative fiction. I would say literary speculative fiction is what it mostly is. And then there's horror. Love it. What's your first one, Gere? Is it about motherhood?

No, it's about a homo, but. Yes. You take that too. I'm going to piggyback off from you because my first pick is one that I read recently that, like, I wish I could delete already from my mind because I fucking devoured it. Yeah. And it's Fruitfly by Josh Silver. I almost included that one, so I'm glad you did. I, so like, here's my thing.

Before I tell everybody what it's about, I'm going to hop on my soapbox. And, like, other than, like, some of John Fram's books and Bath House, by PJ Vernon, we don't get like a ton of like queer thrillers that deal with like queer identity, right? Like so like you have the Ben Packard series by Joshua Molling is a fantastic, but it's like this main character is gay and it's that's it's a part of it's a part of it's like who he is, but it's not like a part of the plot, right? So like Bathhouse was like one of those things that I was like this is like groundbreaking to me and like so like different. because it's like, you couldn't have had that plot with a straight character.

You know, so Fruit Fly by Josh Silver is like another one that I'm like, you could not have had this storyline with like a straight character in it. But Mallory Maddox is a struggling author who will do anything to have her second novel be a hit. So she ends up Googling how to write a hit novel. And she finds an article that claims to go gay, go sad, go dark. and she just that and much more. So after downloading Grindr using her husband's pictures, she eventually comes into the orbit of Leo,

a struggling addict who is often homeless and engages in sex work to survive. Everything clicks when Mallory realizes that Leo's story is just what she needs for a bestseller. But when her obsession threatens more than just her upcoming book, Mallory and Leo's lives merge together in a dangerous tale of cat and mouths. It is one of my favorite endings.

I loved, love, loved, loved, loved the whole book. Like, it was the perfect blend of, like, dark comedy and, like, thriller and then gearing towards suspense. And I just, you couldn't really tell what was going to happen and where it was going to go. Right. And then when it did go in that direction, you're like, of course, because this is the most fucking unhinged book. So it's just so good.

Oh, I loved it. It's incredible. It's so much fun. I DMs him, but I think everyone was DMing him. Yeah, I can imagine. Crazy. Yeah. Sounds good.

I've seen, I think I saw Kate post about a while ago, and then I've probably seen lots of people posting that. It's like that, it's like, it was like hard to get the summer. Yeah, they actually ran out of it. They ran out of it. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, I just got mine from Ardvark because it was September 1st, with Ardvark.

So now I actually have a trophy copy. But yeah, like, it was out of stock for a lot of August. Yeah. Everywhere. Like, globally even. Yeah. I, it was kind of like social media with Fruitfly has been like how toy stores used to be with like the Taibini babies and all of these like hot toys and like, you know, like,

um, Pokemon cards and everything where they're like, we have them. and like people would like swarm like certain bookstores were like are you looking for fruit fly like we have some come get on even like Barnes and Noble's were like Orange and Noble uptown Manhattan has it I was like oh my gosh yeah like playing on it I got mine from Blackwell's because I wanted the paperback copy and I'm glad that I did because like I remember when it actually like came out to buy in the US like it wasn't even on Amazon a squirrel and like I heard about it like two or three weeks before it came out, it hit my radar on net galley, and then all of a sudden, everyone was talking about it. And I, like, got approved like a week before. If I didn't pre-order, I probably still wouldn't have it.

Yeah. People are just now getting them, like, in stock again. Crazy. Which is so meta for the very meta premise of how to write a bestseller. Yeah. Oh, that is. So fascinating. I know.

Like, I just want to ask him all the first. questions. And he got to do an event with R.F. Kwong and like one of the easiest comps is yellow face. Yeah. And he like did an event with her and has like a whole post on his Instagram about like his like dreams being realized and kind of like a little bit like what you were staying gear though with like finding queer fiction.

I think especially male male. I think maybe we have some more like bisexual women or stuff and thrillers. but Josh Silver in his post talks about like when he read yellow face being like I want to be able to write something that like makes a group of people feel so seen something like that. So he like felt that way reading her book and now people have just been comping that like because it's one of the easy. It's like it is one of the best comps. Yeah. So I like I always love those little things. Me too.

So good. Mm-hmm. You know what's so crazy. me is like I have not really been on my book account much. So like I have no idea. Like I feel like the common person now of like having no idea like what's going on in the book world. We're like breaking news. Yeah. Like I have I'm just like oh cool like that's really awesome. And like I feel like in the past I would have been like oh yeah I would be in the know on all of those. You would have been approved for Fruitfly in like January and have already read it.

Probably. Because like it's so wild to me too. Like I remember what was it? Like we were talking about like Mad Maple, I think maybe. Or there was like something that I was like, I cannot wait to read that. It doesn't come out for like three months. And you're like, I read it a couple months ago and it was so good. Oh yeah.

She would always. Yeah. And like there'd always be like some like or like you'd be like, oh, that came out last week and I just started it and it's good. But like there was like you either were like reading it on the pub week or like. six months in advance. Yeah. Oh, I think it happened with the last Lisa Jewel release. Yeah, because I think I'm learning that like when it comes to NetGalley, it has to be like my, my girls. Yeah. I feel like that I need at some point where I'm like, oh, I'm in a slump. I need Lisa Jewel.

Oh, I'm in a slump. I need Sally Hepworth. Yeah, that is. I'm trying to be picking. It's good discipline to have. Yeah. Although I just saw I have, I finally saw it was on, it was on Libby. So it must have just gotten bought by the libraries, but I don't know if it's actually out yet. That one Kate that you were talking, the first lady Freeman. Disha Philia.

Yeah. The true confessions of. Is it out yet? Is it out yet? No, it comes out on the 29th. Okay, because then I have it on Libby, but then I just saw it on neck galley still. I listened to it on neck galley. And it's the same narrator of Secret Lives of Church Ladies.

Oh, okay. Because I was just like, for the first time in so long, we're just like perusing the honor on that galley. And I was like, oh, maybe they'll approve me. Maybe. We'll see. That would be cool if you get it. Dude, there are times.

It's very fun. There are times, like, there was a local author that I saw in net galley that I was like, oh, I mean, I don't, no offense, but sometimes I'm like, especially lesser, known authors. I'm like, why aren't you approving that immediately? That's a really, yeah. Good question. I'm like, do you want people to read this or not? Yeah. And it's almost like, it's almost like I wish you could like put something in that galley when you request something to be like, this is a local author for me. Or like, yeah, like, just a quick note that you could add. And like not even like, I mean, obviously like nothing against it. But it's kind of like when

for instance, like, if there was like like fruit fly coming. out and like all of these like straight women were getting approved for it and I got denied it. It's like I wish there was like something I could put in there that was like I'm a queer man who loves thrillers. Like this book is made for me. Yes. Like I will shout from the rooftops about how much I love this book. Yeah. It's just like really interesting how like you know they would like if there was like speculative horror they would send it to me and like if they denied Kate I'd be like no this is like your girl for speculative for like exactly this one to her yeah but don't send her a physical one she'll send it back return right there's times with a posted that says see you on that galley

i'm like it's cheap just send it to me yeah exactly oh my gosh that's crazy um i don't really have a i don't really have a segue except or I guess it's still related to motherhood, which is wild to me. The two of mine are. But this is very much like this quoted. But my other one, like I just remember this reading experience and like recounting it to AJ was like madwoman. Oh, yeah. And like do you remember when it came out?

Like I feel like I'm having so much nostalgia of like being in my reading prime and feeling like this book just like spoke in this. way that I don't remember feeling a lot since. Oh, I get it. Like there. I don't know. So I for and if anyone hasn't. It was like exactly a year or two years ago. Was it two now?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So maybe it doesn't feel like we've talked about it every week. Right. Because I also. While we're talking about like the same books like every couple of weeks. Oh, I know. And you're like, oh, I was such.

talking about this forever. I know my here. Yay. You guys convince me to read it and I love that. It was so good. You have that floppy paper bag. Oh my God.

Yeah, and I just triggered. Get that out of my face. Is this whole thing in... Put that away! I think the moments that this is in second person, like I realize that actually when a book does it well, I love second person.

when a book does it well. I love that she, like, doesn't really name men very often, which I did not realize until later. Oh, yeah. I love that she is, like, really speaking to her mother and speaking to the experience of, like, her own experience of motherhood in ways that, like, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I mean, without totally reading the synopsis,

it's, like, this woman who her mother is in jail, and you learn that she had, like, abuse in her past and she's married with kids now and this like nanny comes into the picture and you kind of get like some flashbacks of ex-boyfriends and stuff so it's just kind of like her life now as a mother but like how much her history like impacts her and how she doesn't necessarily want to like repeat that experience but like when you think of just that synopsis you're like okay but like the way she writes is incredible. It's like gut punching every sentence. Yeah, like literary. It's like literary domestic suspense kind of. I would call it that. I would call it a suspense because it has

unknowns for sure. Right. But like the blurb from Ashley Audrain actually. Oh yeah. The title is the rare kind of book that lives in your bones, emotional suspense at its best. Yeah. It really does like seep into you if you let it. Yeah, I agree. Do you guys ever notice this actually, I was looking at the books that I wanted to pick from for today, and a lot of the authors like blurb each other. And so I'm like, I have a niche. Like I can tell I have a niche because all of the authors like blurb each other's books. So like we all like, it's just this little spider web. Yeah. people that I love and that write the stories I love. Like, do you guys ever notice that? Yes. About like your favorites. Definitely. I've had a lot lately where S.A. Cosby blurbs them and I'm like,

okay, I'll buy it. Yeah. Pre-order. There are some authors I think are like very hyped up and like they're popular and that's good for them. But like sometimes they're blurbing books that I'm like, this doesn't work for me. But there are like a select few that I'm like if I know like if this person like S.A. Cosby is one of them. Yeah. And like Jennifer Hillier, like, if they're blurbing something, like, I know that they like read it and really like enjoyed it to put their names on it. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And actually Disha, what we were just talking about, true confession, is the first lady Freeman. It's such a long title. She, but she like gave me a couple really good recommendations based off what she was blurbing. And then I realized, I saw,

saw like two other books that she had blurbed so i've like made it into her blurb sphere oh yeah that friends and family one that i showed you was one that she blurbed oh which of disha yeah this is crazy of the okay like this is just let me just let me be excited for a second because i like I haven't felt this way. No. Okay. Mad Woman, blurbed by the author of Nightbitch, we just talked about. Wow.

Another book I have that is Ruffy Thorpe, which if you've been around for a while, you know I love Margot's Got Money Trouble. Yes. And then the push by Ashley Audraine, blurbed by Lisa Jewel, one of my favorite authors that we already talked about. today. And then another book I thought about talking about was Rufie Thorpe again. And so, and it's just like, sometimes it's so crazy that I don't even realize how like night, like, I use the word incestuous, but I don't use it in a bad way. It's just like how interconnected it all is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's so weird. Yeah, like in the five books sitting in this pile, like how many times those authors have been talked about already just today. Yeah, you're right.

Weird. well i know that's like then sometimes like then when i step out of it like when we like covered a romance event and i was like i have no clue who any of these authors are that they're talking about so it's like sometimes you move out of the genre and then you're like oh wow i don't know the people in this ecosystem no

and it's sometimes kind of like wow maybe your little ecosystem is smaller than you think because it's true I'm like, wow, I guess I really have a niche. You just, well, and you know what you like. Yeah. And it's one of those cool things where it's making me think about how like the longer you read, the more that happens, we're like kind of like finding Chelsea Beaker a couple of years ago was because a couple years before we'd read Ashley Audrain. And so then Ashley Audraines says like, hey, this one's good. And then we follow Chelsea.

and then I've read books that Chelsea has recommended. So I think you also like find some of the like not known authors through like the authors you have been reading. Yeah. It is cool like seeing that over time. Yeah, you're so right. If someone you really love really hype something up in a genuine way like you guys were saying before, you're kind of like, okay,

it might as well give it a try. Yeah. Well. I decided since we were talking about nostalgia, even when we were planning that was how I kind of chose my other two because I really could have. There's so many books. But one that I will always be nostalgic about is the Ursulina by Brian Freeman because that was like. Why did I know you were going to say that? Oh, that's so trippy.

Probably because it, I think it was our first buddy read too, right? Was it? Yeah. But like I was like. It was at least within the first like six months of knowing gear. we read it together. I remember that nostalgia.

I was like, she's going to talk about the Ursulina, I think. Oh my God, maybe I am. If you are. A little intuitive.

With age, you're getting also a little witchy. I just, that was on the most recent good hang episode. Getting witchy with age. Oh.

I do listen. I'm a couple weeks behind. But for the people who are like, what the hell is the Ursulina, Kate? Good question. In Black Wolf County, the legendary creature known as the Ursulina becomes terrifyingly real when a serial killer begins claiming its identity and leaving bodies behind.

Deputy Rebecca Calder must hunt down the murderer who marks each crime scene with a chilling message written in blood. I am the Ursulina. And it's wintry and cold and so suspenseful. It's creepy. Fuck. Yeah. And wonderful. And that's all you need to know. It's so good.

It's a 4.33. It's very good. You would love it. You would fucking, yeah, devour it. Yeah, you would love it. Me? Yes. Oh.

Yeah. It's not as much alike. Because like I remember the monster part and like some of the review saying like, don't read this before you go to bed at night. And it was creepy for me. but like it wasn't as like horror leaning as it might sound to some people I guess is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I will piggyback off that though and say that I'm the complete opposite because Kate is like. That's true. I'm reading a lot of you're on a pretty cul-de-sac.

Oh yeah. And I'm in the middle of the woods. So like when I take my dog out at night, like I hear weird shit all the time like kind of Coyotes. Like, I literally thought a man was running toward me one time and it was a deer when I was outside with Murphy. So, like, if you live somewhere where they don't have sidewalks or like you're often very rural, do not read the Ursuline at night. Because I did and I was terrified. That's hilarious. Do you know January-Lavoy narrates it? No, because this was way before I listened to audio books. Yeah. I mean, I was thinking that. But so this is a series, but you read it as a stand-alone or do you need to read? the first one. Oh yeah, then like the prequel. It says Shelby Lake number two, the Ursulina.

Yeah, so he wrote a prequel. We read the Ursulina and then we read the in a cold, cold, what's that one called? In the cold, cold, cold, cold wood. That's what I thought. No, that's in a dark, dark wood. The deep, deep snow. In the deep, deep snow, not the cold, cold, snow. Cold cold wood. Yeah, and it's written as like a prequel. Isn't that a Ruth Ware

book in the dark dark dark wood? Yeah. I was like in the cold cold wood, which could be like the very opposite of heated rivalry is in the cold cold cold. Yeah.

So that other one came out. I don't know. Oh. Well, Gare and I just did it back. backwards, never mind. Because I think the Ursulina is, takes place in like the 80s and then maybe the first novel is like present time. Is that correct? So it's the prequel, but it's second. I think so. I see. That happens. Yes. Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't say anything about the time periods. So, because I actually did that with Audrey J. Cole recently. Like,

Oh yeah, I remember you saying that. There's like a trilogy and I read the first two and then I read the prequel last and I actually really enjoyed that reading experience instead of reading the prequel first. Yeah, it was really good though. And it was like our first buddy read and it was wonderful. So. Thank you. Now I kind of want to listen to it. Listen to it.

Yeah. I wonder when the audio came out. I wonder if like it came out more recently because I think for a while, I mean, I mean, granted, this is 2022. Right. It's not that long ago. But I think the boom of audio really has been more recent. I think so, too.

I think that some books for a while did not have both. And now it's like, oh, you have to have both. I did not realize that it was that recent. I do think I thought I was just near to it. Wow, I did not know that. What perfect timing for me. Yeah, I think it really was. I was saying the last, like, four years.

right now. Yeah. Would you think in the, I would think in the last, like, since I started reading more, it's like 20, probably four years ago, I don't think it was all the time. Oh. News to me. Maybe I'm wrong. But also, someone told me for a recent book club book that you can still get at the library,

like audio CDs for books, even like new books. And I'm like, but who has a CD player? That's fascinating. Maybe old people do. I suppose. Because I'm like my car doesn't have one. Like I don't have one. If somebody put a gun to my head right now and told my mom to download an audio book on her phone, she would, I would die.

So this isn't going to work. Does she have a CD player? She would find one. I still have a old boom box. Oh, okay. Well, then yeah. Well, and I guess, to be fair, usually libraries have random. things to check out too i wonder if you're

like a vCR yeah i don't know yeah you're right it's kind of like this resurgence of like people saying to like how they're going more toward physical media now because like everything's streaming so expensive oh so yeah i also have a DVD player maybe maybe we're going to see kate with a walkman soon oh god and like people went back to like like like i noticed people were really into like

AirPods and now more people are using the wires again. Yeah. Not me. I have both. I have both as well, but over-stimulating as fuck. I love not having wires. I only do the wire when we're doing our podcast. Yeah. Because when I try to connect my AirPods to my MacBook, it tries to connect to my phone first and it's confusing for me. That can be really annoying. And I'm not techy enough. We're not all techie, Becky here. Not all techie, Becky. Well, and I'm a tech degenerate. Or what I say?

I'm a digital degenerate. I tried to highlight the text in the book with my finger. I sent Garrett a video. I was like, I just did this to a paper book. That's hilarious. I might, I might have been high too, but still. And I am like old as fuck because I don't think that I've ever even highlighted anything in a physical book or an ebook. I had to get a highlight.

later out because I'm just so used to it. I have annotation tabs. And I think the only book that I've like annotated was trust issues by Liz and Greg because I wanted to keep track of how many times like the snarky bitchy siblings like cracked me up. Well that's amazing.

But if you don't want to laugh and you want to cry your eyes out, I have a recommendation. I want to know how this is in Garris world. Yeah. It's His readers out, baby Building this 2013

It is a hardcover From the UK Not ordered online Like my friend Went on a trip to London And brought this home for me That's so special It's how much I love this book

Because they ran out And make into first We're not friends anymore But it's fine It was nice at the time It was nice at them to do that But thanks for the good memory So my next one is the last winter of Danny Lansing by P.D. Viner.

And this is just spectacular. I think it's probably one of the reasons why I got into like a bleaker preference of books because I had read things. And I'm not saying this to be negative, but like things like kind of like Freedom McFadden where like you don't really feel bad for the character. you just want to know what's going on. Yeah. And this was like one of the ones where I was like, I am fucking heartbroken over like knowing what this book is about and then trying to read the first page of it, if you don't shed a tear, like there's something wrong with you.

So it is about 20 years ago, college student Danny Lansing was abducted and brutally murdered and her case was never solved. With Danny's death almost destroying their marriage, her parents, Patty and Jim are mere shells of the people they used to be. Patty is consumed by Danny's murder, searching for clues and going to dangerous lengths to find the killer, while Jim rarely leaves the house and believes that he's being visited by the ghost of their daughter. Danny's childhood sweetheart, Tom, has become a detective solving the murders of young women, just hoping he can solve Danny's case one day. When Tom finds a new lead, the brutal details of Danny's murder are finally

revealed. Harrowing. The rips on that cover look real. I know. Yeah. That is so creative. It's just. Whoever created that cover. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but like somebody saw this and was like, I'm going to make the cover for the silent patient.

Yeah. Oh, you're right. Yep. Like, and Danny Lansing came first, but like I love this style. This cover fits for Danny Lansing. It also fits for the silent patient. so I'm not being like super, I'm just kind of cracking a joke here, but like... Well, there are definitely coverage trends.

Yes. Yes. This was not one of them because I don't know how many people have actually read this book, but like... Right. If you want something that's like very like realistic in things that happen and everyday things, like, this is one that will like tear at your heartstrings, but like it's also like brutally real and just like... Kind of rabbit hole adjacent, right?

I think it's sadder than rabbit hole. I remember you saying it was sadder, but like... Yeah. I'm not... I mean, obviously, this isn't like a huge spoiler, but like basically you find out that this college girl is like murdered and 20 years later her parents are still struggling. And like, the very first page is the father having a memory of her as a little girl being afraid and convincing her that there's no such thing as monsters. Oh God.

And then like she's brutally murdered by somebody who like you would say as a monster. But it's I I respect it for what it is because it's not it's like very anti-clay. Like the mother is out putting herself in dangerous positions. The father is the one that's like very emotional at home and like is comforted by the fact that he thinks that like Danny's ghost is like visiting him. so he's like the more like emotional one and the mom is out like on the streets like looking for the person responsible for her daughter's like very very brutal murder it is sensational and it will stick with you would you consider like the point of view to be like kind of similar to the one that came out a year or two ago. It's like what happened to Nina where with that kind of like the girl

leading against the car on the front or where like all the perspectives are the parents. Like there's no perspective of the girl or whatever. It's like just the parents. I think it's all. That's what Kill Show was like. I think it's all third person. But you never have Danny's perspective. Right. I don't think that you have her perspective. If you do, it's at the very end. Sure. I know that, like, you find out what happens to her at the end,

but I can't remember if it's, because I think the whole book is third person. Mm-hmm. Um, but I remember, like, when I found out what happened to her, um, I was like, this is one of those cases

where like, you know when you watch like true crime or you listen to like a podcast and it's like a cold case that hasn't been solved and you're like, I just feel bad for these people who like want answers for their loved ones. Like they should have this before they die. This was one of the books where I was like, if this were a real case,

I would have preferred that the parents died before finding out what happened to her. Oh. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just one of those things where like there are some things that are like, like just sad. Yeah.

You know, like it's not like somebody got hit by a car and like didn't make it and you have to live every day without like your child. It's like there are just some things that I think people should not know. I know. And like, but as the parent, it's like you want answers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

That's so crazy. Well. But it's very good. And it's very character driven. And it's just like exceptionally well written. I know you've talked about it before. I feel like I have it on my interested list. This is like one of mine that's been on my TVR for way too long.

I know. I do think that's still a really good topic that we should do. Dot, dot, dot, dot to be continued. Top top. TBC. Mm-hmm. Well, I had a few on my list that I wasn't really sure what to pick. But I think I'm going to pick, well, drop.

by. I was going to maybe do Black Sheep by Rachel Harrison because it got me into horror a little bit more and I really love I almost call her like girl horror, snarky horror. Yeah. So that was my drive by but I already talked about her a little bit today. But because

Gare brought up like this topic, I'm going to talk about a book that I literally hugged after I was done with it, but it was also like really sad. Was called Notes on Your Sudden Disappearance, Allison Esbach. She wrote The Wedding People, which I read first. This was my second book,

and then actually all of her books are five stars for me, all three. Wow. It takes a special person for me, a special writer that can be like kind of wordy, but like in the in the chunks of words, there's just things that kind of like take your breath away. And that's how she is for me. And this, and also, Gere, did you ever read the book? Why do I think that you did? Tell the wolves I'm home. Did you read that? No, it doesn't even sound familiar.

I don't know why I thought maybe you told me about it, but it's like, it's kind of like a YA book about like the 80s, early 90s. It takes place during like the AIDS epidemic, but it's about this girl and her, her uncle passes away. I don't know why I thought maybe either I saw you rated it or maybe not. I'm not sure. But it's it says for readers that love that book. That's why I brought that's why I thought of that. But anyway, it looks like a thriller, but it's really about these two sisters who have like the funniest sibling relationship growing up like and then the one sister passes away

and that's kind of like the family grieving after. And the. And the. first part I think just really sucked me in like I love a funny like teen sassy sister dynamic and like to be able to laugh and then also cry in a book like is usually going to be five stars for me. Oh yeah. So I just thought that this one this one was really, really great. But of course, like I said, blurbed by Rufie Thorpe. And if you liked the wedding people, some people really, like, I think that Allison Asper can be a little bit like polarizing. But I am a major fan. Interesting.

Yeah. Some people are like, this book really sucked. Like other people that I sometimes share taste with were like DNF, I can't stay. Isn't that so random sometimes? Yeah. And I was like, are you serious? I loved it so much. Yes.

But it's just like, I think reading taste is so funny. Yeah, it is. Because I'm like, oh, okay. And then there's ones where like people loved and I'm like not interested. I know. Or sometimes like from the blurb or the synopsis, you're like, this has everything I like in a book. And you're like, why don't I want to pick it back up? No.

Yeah. It makes no sense sometimes. Yeah. It's, it's super weird. But those are my. Those are my three with a drive-by. Oh, yeah, because you said, was the push like your first? The push was my first and then Mad Woman and then notes in her send in his appearance.

And then I drove by Rachel Harrison and second drive-by. I'm on my, I think, fourth re-list and of Road to Tenderheart. Oh, I love that, though. And because I started it over because AJ finally read it or listened to it. And I was like, if you're going to do it, I have to listen again. And then all of a sudden he's like, it was kind of slow. and I was like, excuse me, that's my pretty sure my favorite book. Yeah.

He's like, what? And I was like, stop talking. Just stop talking. Just stop talking right now. And then he finished it. And he's like, no, I was really good. And I was like, okay. I'm like, if you have nothing good.

I just like feel like I need to read it because of how much you love it. Kind of like Danny Lansing. I'm like, I'm a bad friend because I have not read Danny Lansing. Oh, don't ever feel that way. No, you're not a bad friend. it's just the funny book things that are like like I know it's a silly thought but I have I think you'll love Danny Lansing I just think that it's no matter how much you love it like it's a one and done for people definitely do you know what you can't do yourself through that twice I want to put myself through it again you are a masochist I know I just like love to be sad in a book or when you reread your books like sad ones do you have the same reaction or now that you know it's coming are you more just like I love it

or do you have the same emotional reaction I'm usually just like that's usually when I read it the second or like third time I'm like no there's no other better way you could have done that like it just like still like hits like so hard yeah yeah I don't know I haven't read I mean Danny Lansing I think I read in like actually 2013 like I think that I read it when it came out. So like I have, I just remember like the very end and like the reveal and being like, like, that hit me really hard. And like it was like it made me very sad for like a week. It was hard for me to like move on to another book.

So I don't know what it'll be like when I read it again because I've read so much now where like there have been like a lot of sad things in books. like so sometimes it was just sick with me but like I'm just like no there's no other better way you could have done that are you ever scared to reread a book because like maybe it was really great in the moment you read it but you don't know if it'll be the same fit for you now um no because like even if like okay no shade but like when I first read oh my god what is it the Rachel Cain series. What is the Wolf Lake or something? Still House Lake. Still House Lake. Yes.

When I first read that, I was like, oh, my God, this is fantastic. I absolutely love this. I tried to reread it and I could not get into it. But I was like, you know what? I remember when I started reading more thrillers and getting into them that I loved this book. So like, I'm going to leave that as a good memory at that time in my life. And just because it doesn't work for me now doesn't mean I can't still be like, I enjoyed that book a few years ago and leave it at that.

Right. 100%. So it won't like ruin it for me if I had a good experience with it, like at one point in my life. It's the same thing with men. Right. Well, it's definitely there's people that are like, oh, X, what, like, let's say Verity's coming out the movie. And like people will ask me, I'm like, oh, have you seen the thriller or the trailer?

Do you want to see it? Like the trailer to me looks more horror than thriller. so I'm just really curious. I know. And people will be like, oh, I didn't. And I'm like, you know what? It was exact. When I read Verity, it was exactly what I needed at the time.

I had just DNF to a really slow book. I needed a fast-paced thriller. And that was exactly what I needed. I don't know if I read it again if it would hit the same. But like, it was exactly what I needed at the time. That's how I feel about parity. I'm a little, I get to be embarrassed by the rating I gave it. And then I'm like, Kate, it's okay.

Yeah. That's, I mean, I think it is what it is. Like, I think there are also, like, a lot of people who just like to hate on Colleen Hoover now that she's a bigger name. Totally. But, like, there were so many people that shit on Woman Down when it came out. Yes. And we're like, this was horrible ID and FDF debt. Like, they hated it.

Two stars, whatever. I read it. I gave it five stars because that fucker kept me addicted from cover to cover. There was a spectacularly hot, disturbing sex scene. and there were some twists in it that I never saw coming that like my jaw actually like hit the ground. So you know what? Five stars for me because I had a fucking wild and fun time reading it and no regrets about it. Yeah.

Yeah. If you're looking to compare Colleen Hoover to like Chelsea Beaker, that's your problem. You know, like if you think that like bright young women is the standard for your thrillers and you want to pick up woman down or Verity by Colleen Hoover, like the calls coming from inside the house, honey, like you're the problem. So, yeah. You're so right. You're so right. Don't you have another one, Kate?

I do. I do. I was, I'm like, I was about to segue. I just like went speechless. Well, this was my other nostalgic pick. And we all, all three of us love it. You never saw me coming by Vera Curian. I still don't have to pronounce her last name perfectly though.

So good. Chloe is a college freshman diagnosed psychopath and aspiring killer secretly plotting revenge against the childhood friend who wronged her. But when a fellow participant in her college's study of psychopaths is murdered, Chloe becomes the hunted and must figure out which of her equally untrustworthy classmates is the killer. It is such good dark academia And then we keep talking about Wonderfully bitchy millennial women There's also so much of that It is so good

And we haven't talked about it in forever And it was another one we used to talk about all the time Oh yeah I read that because of killing the tea for sure Oh I love it I like I also think that like that is they never learns like a little bit edgier younger wild sister yeah yeah i agree i always think of them

as like companion novels yeah they totally go together like the two main characters and those books would be like phelma and louise for me i i really thought circling back to never saw me coming and they never learn i if we would have done maybe more books i really really thought like they never learn was really a yeah really a book that all of us have talked totally deservedly about a ton yes yeah like damn it so good i love that i just and you know what i think i think there was this like really lovely era of like female serial killers and like kind of like Furious-esque. Yes.

That really like hit for me and they're not always hitting like that for me anymore. And so like when it does, it's like really special. Yeah. I think sometimes people take an idea and they try to like make it their own and it's like, it just doesn't have the same like punch as. Yeah. Especially when there's just like a voice that matches that like anger. of women and like maybe there's some snarkiness but it's really more like kind of mad and there's

other ones where it's like it's almost like leaning into like the snarkiness or making it a little lighter or obvious or something and I'm like there's just for me there's I think I must be like really picky and I don't really know how to explain it but there's like a version that hits better than like some of the overdoing that I know you mean yeah I get that's kind of like especially if I don't know why I'm whispering I can cut it, but especially if I'm interviewing an author, it helps for there to be like something more being talked about in the book if it is like a thriller. Because sometimes popcorn thrillers are if the if the author is not just an already chatty person, sometimes it's like hard to talk about a popcorn thriller on a podcast with the author. Yeah. So I kind of feel that way with those. Yeah, a little substance.

And I think, too, like I've noticed, I think I've heard people read in reviews where people are like, you know, the old show me don't tell me. Yeah. I think sometimes now, like, people be like, men suck, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I know.

Duh. Well, you don't have to type it out. Can you give me like a slow burn psychological? Like, does he suck or doesn't he? Like I know like I'm going to assume me sucks. So it's kind of boring if you're just like spewing out current events to me. Like I know it sucks. Like give me something to do here.

You want like a slow burn psychological about how bad on a scale of men can suck. Yes. Maybe your third one. A density of souls by Christopher Rice will do. Oh yeah. I had a feeling this one was going to be one of yours. It has to. It has to.

being like this is the other one I feel guilty about not reading yet. Kate like I mean stuff does too but like Kate is like so big on being like if it's queer I'll read it. Like you're so right. Like Mallory Maddox is like go gay, go dark, go sad and like Kate is like if it's gay I'll read it. So like this one is so good and it's like very coming of age about like four friends who are all best friends until like hit high school and then like the one who was gay is like bullied and treated as an outcast and then two murders like shock their entire like small community and years later they're reunited when they find out that like one of the accidental deaths was not an accident and was murder so like it's murder it's psychological it's like very like very character driven and like slower and it's just like a slow burn

psychological queer book with murder in it is there like a friendship aspect in that one or are they are like are most of the friends kind of sucky um it's just it kind of goes back and forth with like how close the four friends were and then like the one that's an outcast and like how they all went in like these different directions I want to say and who they turned into high school and beyond

okay got it um but it's very like it's very much like a gut punch it's not as sad as like the last winner of Danny Lansing but like there are some pretty shocking things in it and it's definitely not one of those books where like you're like oh I'm so happy this character is like thriving and very happy like everybody's

going through their own shit. Yeah. That sounds like kind of similar to the setup for the disappearers that I had to pause because it was so dense and heartbreaking. This one's like emotional, but it's not, I don't think it would make you cry. Yeah. The ending to it reminds me of the ending of John Fram's books. Oh, nice.

Where like everything just fucking blows up in your face. Yes. There's like wild crazy shit. and then it's like who it's like okay like here's like i mean it's not like a huge spoiler but it's like one of those things where like there's a storm coming oh yeah and like actually a storm coming yeah and when it hits like their lives just fucking all everybody's lives blow up and implode i just need to just i've got to read it yeah it's i'm still giggling it case like if it's gay i'll read it In the middle of you talking about the synopsis, it like hit me and I almost started giggling.

And I was like, this is not the time to giggle, Kate. Yeah. No, if it's gay, I can convince her to read it. It does raise the chance of me being a little more interested. And then like, this is the only one where she's like, I'm just not ready yet emotionally. And I'm like, I get it. But like, oh, I've just got to. The snow garden is like dark academia with like.

I know. Those are the two. of very fucking insane ending. And like one of my biggest literary crushes in the entire world. And his name is Jesse. And when I was reading it, I thought of Milo Ventimila. And I was like, oh my God, because like I will be in love with that boy from the first day of I'm until like right now.

If he showed up on my doorstep, I'd hang up on you guys. Well, you should. I would be like, I have to go. Bye. I'm now his hell. Oh, that's amazing