Bookwild - Books with Dramatic Irony, Sex Work and Road Trips: Gare, Steph and I Chose A Favorite Plot Device

Episode Date: November 22, 2025

This week, Gare, Steph and I all chose one of our own favorite plot devices and recommended books in that vein! This episode definitely has a book for just about everybody!Kate's Books - Books with Dramatic IronyI, MedusaStalkerDark SistersSky Full of ElephantsHappy LandGare's Books - Thrillers with Sex WorkBoom TownReal EasyThese WomenThings We Do in the DarkThe Girl in 6ESteph's Books - Books with Road TripsThe Road to Tender HeartsNeedle LakePaper GhostsI Thought You Said This Would WorkHe Started It Check Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mba 

Oh my gosh, I saw a YouTube comment. It was like, oh, M.G. The trio is back together. So I feel like I should say the trio is back this week. Oh, my God. I know. It's Garrett and Steph. Or as AI thinks, Garen. Garen's stuff. Garen's stuff. We sound like a like Swedish detective. Yes. Oh, yeah. Kind of. You really do. Detective Garland stuff. Just like keep these notes for when you write your book here. Like, hmm. Yeah.

Like, what's that, what's that genre? Nordic noir. Yeah. Did you imagine? I would. I think I could write like a smutty little thriller with like serial killers and guys doing like stuff to comfort one another. But I do not think that I could write Nordic noir.

Yeah, it's a lot. Oh, yeah. It's like 700 pages of like. terrifying yourself with like brutal killings and like yeah 47 ways to describe winter definitely that and like the most like poetic like way possible yes literally amazing but well gear is our icebreaker king in case yeah oh my god what is I keep like seeing this and I'm like I don't care maybe I'm like unhinged but like is Is there something that you see people, like, bitch about within, like, the bookish community that you do, that you think that, like, stay in your lane, don't bitch about this?

Even though I'm totally willing to bitch about other things. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because there's a different, like, okay, so, for instance, like, if somebody tags an author and a bad review, bitch about it. Because, like, that's, like, unhinged. Yes. And rude as fuck. Mm-hmm.

but like mine is like I have come to realize that like all of my books should be loved and I if I love the reading experience that like I don't really care if I dog ear one of my books I'm not going to borrow a book from the library and dog ear it I'm not going to borrow a book from a friend in dog ear it but like if it's my book and it belongs to me and it's like in my possession and like when people are like ew dog earring books is like the worst thing you could do da da da da da da da and i'm like i'm pretty sure like ripping a book apart or like burning it or like i don't know there's so many other things you could do but like if it's a well-loved book yeah i don't see the difference between somebody writing in the spine of a book

annotating it right putting those little sticky tabs on it that could rip the page and me doggearing a book yeah yeah the sticky things even the book ones like do sometimes take the print off a little like even the book one yeah I think that's a good one yeah I'm a dog ear fan like Ashley Winstead specifically I think in one of the videos we did with her

she talks about how there's like nothing like um like having someone bring their copy up to sign and like seeing that it's like dog yeared and like that the book has been loved that like the person really loved enough to be like doing what you're saying or read it multiple times

yeah did you see those videos lately that you know there's all those things about how killian murphy's like just has like an rbf all the time but when like there's this one interviewer that asks him about books and he's like so engaged and excited and he was saying like his dad every time he would like get a book he'd write his name and when he got it and i think he would write like when he read it multiple times he's like so my books that i love are like beaten up yeah and i love it that way I'm like, you know what? That's actually a really good point. I know.

I saw like the pictures. Yeah, he like writes his name and like the year that he read it. I'm like, well, that's cute. I'm a little digital cape over here though. Yeah. I have like, I can't tell you what book it is yet. But like one of the books that I'm going to be discussing tonight, I have an arc of. And then I have like a special edition of.

and it's a book that I really want to re-read because the special edition one glows in the dark. What? Yeah. So, like, I really want to reread this book, but, like, if I'm going to well-love it, I can't do anything to either one of those. So, like, I ordered a paperback copy off Pango today

that, like, I can, like, annotate and well-love and, like, crush against my soul. Yeah. Well, one of my... mine what do I call it something that other people book kink yes now I'm like this is the right answer the question but I think it is so like if I read a book and within like 10 to 20 percent I know it's just not working for me like I will DNF but I don't then go I don't even go review it at that point because it's like I didn't even read the whole book I already just decided it wasn't for me

so I feel like I can't really like even if I finish a book and I'm like oh that was just three stars but like I I can talk about why it was and maybe be like oh I have this hang up um but I I hate when like some of the good reads reviews are like I couldn't even make it 10 pages I'm like then why are you writing a review right now like yeah you don't need to write a review in this case like you just didn't read the book so yeah to give it a one star is like yeah that too and then like an extension of that is people who seem to like only read books they don't like you're like do you know your own taste excuse me girl I know that is shocking to me there's so many people that I'm like, how do you read so many three-star books and like, keep reading?

Right. Or are you good with her? The call is coming from inside the house. Exactly. You've read 20 things that you know do not work for you, so stop picking up things like that. Don't pick it up. If I get on TikTok one more time and somebody's like, here are five authors, I'm never reading again.

I'm like, talk about the authors that you want to read. I know. Like, you don't have to post every day to come up with shit like that. No. No. And like, I just think it's like rude because like the way that you're. algorithm is set up with like TikTok specifically it's like when people are talking about your books as an author you're probably getting those yeah you're probably getting those videos a lot so like even if

you're not tagging them like it's still just like fucking rude did you see the book talk drama about Elise Myers oh okay I heard so I was called her the other day because I saw something about it but I don't even know if I truly know what's going on yeah I don't know who Elise Myers is it was just really silly so she got really big on, I think TikTok, she has like really bad anxiety and she's neurodivergent in some way, but like just a like very relatable, uh, cute content creators, kind of the best way I can like quickly sum it up. Like I love, I've been following her for years, basically. And she just had a book come, a memoir come out. That's a great question. I'm glad you asked is what the book is

called and to your point she was scrolling TikTok and a bad review did get in her feed but it was like also one where the person was like I thought I was going to love this because I love her content but I think like the book style it just isn't my book style even though I still love her content I'm still going to follow her so she commented and she was like you don't need to feel bad about this like return it I don't care um or like return it if you don't love it and people are like she with her amount of followers she has the audacity to say to return a book and she hates indie bookstores like people lost their goddamn mind saying that she should have known better and like there are people to write memoirs that aren't like on the bookish community at large and like no like she was I think

she was truly just trying to be like yeah don't worry about it like glad you're still following me and like she got piled on so hardcore and I was like this is ridiculous this is not what we need to be fighting about. No. And like, honestly, like cancel culture on TikTok is so wild to me. It's intense. Because you are making content of like canceling somebody like Elise Myers for that. But then your next video is you doing like a lip sync to a Chris Brown song.

Totally. And I'm like, wait a second. you're a little cherry picky. You're very, you're very quick to cancel people when you think that it's like trending to like hop on the bandwagon and be like this is awful. Yes. But like you're also not realizing that like cancel culture, you either go for it, but you can't just like take a pause because it doesn't work for you because you want to

keep Chris Brown on your fucking Apple music or your Spotify. Give me a break. It's like, yeah, it's similar to a lot of things going on. in this country right now. Do you ever have those friends that like always have something to complain about? Yeah. Like, oh my God, you won the lottery. Well, I have to pay taxes on it.

Like, isn't the weather beautiful today? Well, I guess, but like now I have to put on SPF. It's like they always have something to bitch about. And I feel like that's a lot of book talkers. Because like, I don't want to hear you bitch and complain all the time about what you don't like. I want to hear you. Like, if you're going to influence my TBR, you're going to be telling me the things that like you love like I could not put this down

these are my top five of the year when you're like I hated this I hated this I'm never reading Colleen Hoover again and I'm like okay so how does that influence my TBR like you just sound like you're whining over nothing and like if I don't like something I just like move on same I don't write a review for like why I didn't DNF something and there are maybe like three accounts I follow that like can truly take content that doesn't work for them and it's hilarious

you know what I mean but like it's not that they're just like bitching to bitch they're just like funny people and I'm like I don't know if people get like oh I'm going to blow up because like I'm going to have a lot to like that and like no you're not funny and you're not creative and you just are negative. Right. Right. Well, and it's kind of like, like all, if people ask me about a book,

I will tell them my honest feelings. That's like the other part. If I didn't like a book, I'll tell someone like one-on-one. It's not like I'm kind of lie, but I don't need a shit post about books either. No. I also had like, what did I read? Oh my God, I can't think of the name of that. Oh, my God. It's okay. The fix. Oh, yeah. Mia Sheridan is a, uh, romance author and then she writes like I don't want to call them romantic suspense because I feel like the suspense is more important. It's not the full plot at all. So like she writes like thriller books and she writes romance books. And I read her book Bad Mother and it was so dark. Like I was kind of expecting it to not be as dark because she's a romance author. So read it. I was like,

oh my God, this is so dark. Her new one came out called The Fix. And it literally says like after a brutal home invasion that left like people dead this woman had to like try to move on for the last like 11 years of her life and there's rape in it but it's not it's not it's not it's not described do you know what I mean like it's like she says that like somebody climbs on top of her and she disassociated and couldn't believe that what she was going through was something that like she never thought she would go through and like it was weird to like see her that happened to her body but her like not process anything right and that's pretty much I mean the book's dark but like it's kind of like it leads to your imagination it's not care and slaughter right like you hear things like

whatever but I'm like that wasn't like very violent it's just like not disturbing in the sense of like it wasn't like described in graphic but like you're just kind of like okay like this is sad that this woman was raped in her home and like somebody was like another book with rape in it without a warning and I'm like okay so if you have already read Mia Sheridan yeah and you know that like her books could deal with rape or sexual assault or something in her thrillers because they are darker yes then like A why are you surprised and be like it's mentioned but it's not really like a 10 page rape scene do you know what I mean like but like people were like another like without a warning I'm just so done with this and I'm like

if you already were kind of expecting this then like why are you mad now yeah I agree like nothing said that this was going to be a fluffy like book for you right it literally says like a home invasion was brutal and left a woman's mother and sister dead like this was not. This is not a rainbows and butterflies book. Yeah, this is not like the blueberry muffin man murder. Like, this is like obviously going to be something that's dark. Yeah, what is that? Isn't

there like a series that really is like the pumpkin spice cafe murder? Yeah, I used to read them. Yeah. I used to read them and I was like obsessed with them because they were so like comforting to me. Yeah. And then something, I don't know what happened. Something happened. I flipped a switch.

But like, I remember like babysitting. Like I would babysat my friend's like child and like that's what I would read at night when the kid was like sleeping and now it would be like right bright young woman I don't know the answer to your question for the icebreaker for myself I've come to mind are things that like I've shifted my behavior on like like Kate said like now I DNF and I don't rate things like I think I even went through and I was like you know what that's a really good point and I like took off my ratings because I'm like that totally makes sense and then i think there's other there's other stuff like that where like i take

what people say and i'm like oh what do i think about that oh you know what you're saying people don't do of like i don't know if i'm okay hopping on that bandwagon and like somebody has some feedback about that bandwagon like what do i think about it and i think that that's something that I've like really been trying to do just in general instead of just like going to my immediate reaction yeah yeah I don't know so I'm not sure good answer in itself though I mean you should be able to use your platform for whatever you want as long as you're not hurting people right like some people post negative reviews and they post a review over everything and like some people only post reviews on things that they like but like you don't have to be like oh like how many times can

I post a picture of a book and be like this just did not work for me and that's it and sometimes I don't have a reason why yeah and sometimes you don't know why like you think for sure you'll love something and you're like why do I not care no yeah and there was like a book that like a friend recommended to me who was like who knows me like my reading tastes at least very well and was like I think you're going to love this and like i read it and i was like there's something about this i just did not care for like it was a three for me i was hoping it was going to be a five but it was a three and i don't know why and he was like yeah shit like that happens i loved it you didn't end a story totally and something i've noticed that i've changed too is like with thrillers even i mean i don't

think that anything has to be believable by any means and like i i definitely have judged people like I just don't like this because it's not realistic. I'm like, it's a book, it's entertainment. It's not going to be realistic. Like, that's where we're reading it. I think then I find myself now. I feel like so old and crotchy. I'll be like, well, that's just silly.

And I'm like, who am I? But you know what I mean? Just like things shift and change and I can't, I don't know like what makes. Sometimes I'm like, God, they're just doing the most. And so I'm like, but it's not necessarily that it's unrealistic. It's just like whatever is not clicking. Yeah. And so I'm like, am I one of those people now?

I know. Oh, that's just too. But it's never popped in my mouth like that's too far-fetched. It's just not working. Like, yeah. But I always get nervous. I'm like, oh, God, don't be that person. I know.

I'm not sure not. It happens for me, too. If there's not enough character building, sometimes you're like, why would this person do this all of a sudden? Yeah. Yeah. But like, I don't know. I think there's like a difference.

Some books can be like, yeah, like, okay, that's kind of silly or like, all right, let me like suspend my disbelief a little bit here. But like there's also like, I try not to be that person, but like I was literally bitching so hardcore to Kate one night about like a book that I was reading. And I was like maybe the end will make it worth it for me because I'm really not like likeing the plot. And then I was like this pot was like the most unrealistic thing in the entire world. like it was some like two deaths are they connected are they not could it just be this person or that person and no no no and it's like two people who have no money like zero dollars to their name faking their deaths and building a new life off from like three blueberries in a dream like you have no your whole your whole persona in this book is being

the poor person amongst all of these rich people and you two people fake their death and like just like live happily ever after and I'm like that's not no no yeah no one person doing it okay make me believe it hmm you know Amy Dunn Amy Dunn made me a believer these two little stir fry monkeys I don't know what the hell I was thinking with that I was like oh if you love the book wild podcast so much that you'd love to be a part of a book wild community that gets early episode releases and no ads in the episodes you need to check out my book wild patreon if you don't know what patreon is it is a social platform where you can have exclusive content and community all in one space that isn't instagram or youtube there are two tiers and with the first tier you get every episode a day

earlier than the public with zero ads and the second tier is bookwild's backlist book When I started this, I just was not reading as much backlist. I had gotten into the net galley rut of only reading what was about to come out. And I was like, there are so many other books I want to read. So every month, we choose a backlist book. We read it and then we come together at a certain time and discuss it on the weekends. It's really so much fun and I would love to see you there. Signing up is easy. Just follow the link in the show notes. Well, clearly we have opinions. yeah about other people's opinions yeah and actions i'm like my red flag is when people

bitch about other people it's the awareness though you know what's happening yeah totally yeah somebody told a mutual friend that i was a petty bitch two weeks ago and i was like that is not an insult to me no like that's a compliment i'm honored like i'm aware that i'm a petty bitch and I will wrap in this little fucking microphone I will gap in this microphone and prove to everybody that I'm a petty bitch until the day that I die my last dying breath will be something shady as fuck corn and salt good the main piece I need a lot of shade out will probably be dead by the time I die but I'm kind of with you on that yeah I don't have I don't even need to go we don't even need to go there don't you go there don't

you go there i was going to be like i don't have i don't have too many too many people in my life anymore i kind of did all my pettiness but i will get petty in general about like crazy random stuff that's okay true whooped me true mine is just i don't know and i love a petty i love a petty bitch anyway like i love being a petty bitch with anyone you if i don't know things that are good like me for example like if people are being negative a-holes then i'm going to bitch about that yeah yeah if they were being nice i probably wouldn't bitch about it unless they're too nice true it seems fake i'm like show me one red flag there is that i know i do get worried about people who have zero red flags have you seen that clip where

Do you guys know who Caleb Heron is? I know Gare does. Yeah. If I start talking about Caleb, okay. There's a clip where he like asked one of his friends, like, what do you think your flaws are? And she's like, I'm petty. I'm impatient. I get angry, really.

She like lists off all this stuff and he just starts cracking up. He was like, I didn't think you were going to be so ready for that. I love the video of like the people that do the red flag filter on TikTok. Yes. And they're like, oh, like it's like you're late to everything. You're a loud to her. And they're like, oh, my God. Like turn it off.

Yes. And the green flag guy on TikTok brings me happiness, too. TikTok is good for my mental health. Man, I hope it does not, I hope the algorithm doesn't suck when motherfucking Baron Trump takes it over. But again, it's a whole other conversation. I would imagine the TikTok world would rebel in some way. yeah whatever we'll know in a couple months for now i'm gonna savor it yeah there you go and maybe in a couple months we'll just get more reading done yes that's the truth or get eight hours to sleep what a luxury

imagine well you came up with our topic too you are just like the visionary behind this episode I'm just so creative you are I was thinking about books as one does

and I was like you know there's like I've had a few conversations lately about a certain trope or like plot device in books and I was like I did not realize how many books that I've read that have this in it and I really enjoy them more than a lot of thrillers I've read

one of the conversations with Steph so shout out to our blonde bombshell I didn't know yeah and so I was like I thought it would be so fun to just talk about like a plot device or a trope and thriller or any book, really, that just works for you that made you want to read more of that style. I had a couple that I was trying to decide between for today. So I think it was a good, I think we could even do it again sometimes. Oh, yeah.

I would love to do it again because I know everyone thinks that mine, a spoiler alert, everyone thinks that mine is going to be like, I love books about serial killers because they do it. That's not the one I picked. That's not the one I picked. If I was going to have to be, that's what I would have been on. Well, I was super excited for the timing of it because I just interviewed Aaron Crosby X-Ein, who used to be an English teacher. So she was, like, using book terms that I hadn't thought of in a really long time. And I literally told Tyler, like, two nights ago, I was like, my interview with her made me want to, like, read more.

about literary analysis and he was like that might be the most nerdy thing you've ever said I was like I know but also iconic I got I got really like the timing was just perfect because I'm gonna I don't know why I'm acting like I can't just start but I'm mine is gonna be the lady of mystery tonight you guys yes like no spoilers we're like lay on the plane Yeah, you're like, come on. Oh, my gosh. I've never heard that term. Yeah.

I'm going to use it now. All right. One of my clients, one of my podcast clients says it every single week. It's the only way he knows how to end it. He looks at his host and he goes, now, land a plane, Jess. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Gares said it in a much better way. I've said it I've said it way too many times in my and at work including like if somebody like I hate when somebody over explained something to me and I have a really good boss but like sometimes he's like he does that and so like I'll be like lay on the plane land the plane I love these guys your boss like today he said at our work lunch he was like yeah I'm going to like Pittsburgh and I was like Pittsburgh just because like going from upstate.

New York to Pittsburgh is like a little track. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, it's in Pennsylvania. And I was like, I fucking know where Pittsburgh is. Land the plane. Like, don't give me more information. Tell me what you're doing. Not where Pittsburgh is.

That wasn't where my shock is coming from. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Well, Kate. So what is your, Kate? What is your device? Yes. So, Aaron was reintroducing me to the term dramatic irony.

And so dramatic irony is when the audience knows something that the character doesn't. And so the suspense is higher because the audience has more information than like the character in a certain scene. And her book, Junie, is about a 16-year-old enslaved girl. So what we are talking about in that sense, the dramatic irony is we, the readers, know how horrible. we know a full scope of how bad slavery was and how terrible that time period was more than she does because she's just a teenager who like she knows she doesn't have like the happiest life but she doesn't like she doesn't know everything and you're still naive when you're a teenager so some of the suspense that's in the book even though you wouldn't necessarily call it a suspense book

but there is suspense the whole time because you're like oh god all of this could be so bad so fast. And she's just kind of like, I'm a teenager on a plantation. It's only thing she's known. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So when she said that, I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot that there are like all these, there's like all these different versions of irony. And so at some point, I am going to find either a book to read about literary analysis or I'm just going to, I don't know, research a bunch. But I was thinking about how much I do love books that do that. And so then when we had this subject, I was like, this is perfect. What do you want to say here? Nothing. I just love how Kate's going from like thrillers to like speculative horror to like literally she's going to be like an

English professor in like a month. It was my favorite class. I'm going to be too dumb for this podcast in like 30 business days. 30 business days. You were going to have a dramatic irony episode and I'm going to be like I'll do the icebreaker and then I'm just going to dip. I have so many hangups because I grew up in a house that like to make people feel dumb. So I just so everyone knows, I do not intend to make anybody feel dumb. I just get excited to have words to talk about. No, we're just in awe. You're not making it.

No. We're just like, wow. Cool. I just love all of your eras. I want to get the Taylor Swift layout and have all of. of Kate's, like, reading eras that she's, like, gone through since I met her. They just keep expanding. I know. Yeah. That's a good idea. That would be kind of fun. January through March, 24, Kate's Dark Academia plus fantasy era.

Fantasy. Yeah. Yes. Speculative horror. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so is Junie your first pick or not? Well, I was, but I was like, I just had that episode come out this week. So I'm, or, yeah, this week. That was all this week. So I was like, I'll find some of ones but junie is a good example um and so to look to go listen to erin if you want to hear more english nerd stuff um but uh the one i literally have 40 minutes left in this audio book um that i'm listening to it came out this week it came out on tuesday it's called i'm medusa by iona gray and it is a retelling of medusa's story um so she goes by meti medi long overshowered, overshadowed by her immortal family finally discovers purpose as Athena's prized acolyte until an assault by Poseidon shatters her future and transforms her into the infamous

Medusa. Forced to rebuild her identity, she embraces her power and rewrites her destiny, not as a monster, but as a survivor reclaiming her own myth. it will make you so angry this book has made me so angry i mean we it's a it's a short walk for me but uh it is i like that phrase too actually i do yeah it is a very short dream to get me there i'm writing nice down there's just there's so much about it like okay so the dramatic irony part is i i loved her choice through 80% of the book, she's 17 years old. And so it's also like a coming of age story.

So it's like she is so innocent and has only ever lived on this island with her parents and her sisters. And so like at the beginning of the book, she doesn't even really like know what sex is because no one's really talked to her about it. So she's so naive. And there are so many moments where you're just like, don't believe. him like it makes you very very aware like the choice to keep her that young through the whole story it makes you very very aware of like of course it's easy to groom children you know what i mean like

it just makes you so aware of also how like the education like sex education matters so much that's like a whole other part but the dramatic irony like through so much of like the first half especially you're just like don't believe him he doesn't care about you and she just doesn't know any better so it has some fantastic fantastic commentary on rape culture which is sadly still very relevant right now and it's it's it's just fantastic it is kind of like it is your like textbook female rage story i almost picked that today it's been so long since I've talked about it. Yeah.

Now I did you read it. It's really good. And I'm excited she's coming to, she's coming to Indiana. So I'm going to see the author on Saturday and get my copy with the sprayed, crackly, golden green edges. I'm so excited.

I just want to move to Indiana. You should. I want all the authors. And Kate was teasing me the other night because she was talking about Panera. Oh, yeah. I was. I was bragging.

Do you know it's Panera? No. My closest panera is an hour and a half away. The only thing that's keeping me where I am right now and packing up my chubby little Murphy is the fact that I'm this close to Canada. Trump could be good. Trump shut your mouth for three years. Otherwise, it's a quick escape for me. Yeah, he's not going to show his mouth any time soon. God, I want to make so many jokes. Please.

Please say something. Speaking of rape culture. There we go. My topic is books that deal with various forms of sex work in a thriller. I like that. Steph mentioned it on an episode. I don't even know how long ago it was. It was so long ago.

But like you had said, like, I think it's. like really interesting and I want to find more books that feature sex work because I feel like it's like it's educational even if it's like a thriller and it's fiction it's educational because like you can be called a sex worker and not ever have any sort of like physical sexual intimacy with another person um you the stereotypes that are like from like the 60s 70s 80s 90s are like very long gone. Yeah. And also I feel like it like adds not only like education, but like a lot of like getting rid of like different like stigmas with it. Um, and, you know, showing how people who are involved in sex work when a crime happens are like not believed as

much because they consider it like a high risk lifestyle. Right. And. And, And it's kind of like, I feel like, like, employment-wise, it's kind of like the occupation of, like, what were you wearing? Mm-hmm. You know? So between that conversation with Steph and then the recent episode that Kate and I did with Nick Stone, I was like, this is something that I feel like every book that I've read that has sex work in it has not only, like, taught me things, but I feel like would be educational. to people who do kind of have their nose in the air a little bit too much. And it taught me, like, different ways at which somebody could be considered a sex worker. Right.

And I just thought it was very interesting. Like, I've learned a lot from the books, and I like the way that they've written the characters in a way that's, like, that is not their 100% persona. Mm-hmm. You know, like, just like us, like, they're clocking out of something at the end of the and moving on to be somebody outside of what they do for a living. Exactly. So because of that, my first one is obviously Boomtown by Nick Stone.

Because I love her. I can't wait to put a ring on it someday. Like, legit for real. I think that I was meant to be in a relationship with this woman. A sexless, a sexless marriage. I just want to, like, compliment her all the time, ask her what she's writing about and, like, go get her Taco Bell. Every now and then, Gere and I, the same woman reminds us that we both might be bisexual. Yeah.

I'm like, oh, my God. This is my sexual awakening. Also, that relationship sounds great. Oh, right. Be honest. She literally was like, I'll take you to strip clubs and I was like, I'll pick you up Taco Bell. Yes. Oh, it was so fun.

I love her. So Boomtown is about Lyric. She's a former headliner and manages Boomtown, a famous gentleman's club in Atlanta. When the new girl charm stopped showing up to her shifts, Lyric believes this is more than just a flaky employee and is reminded of her friend Lucky, who disappeared under similar circumstances a year prior. As Lyric begins her search for both women, she finds that she's in danger of being the third woman at Boomtown that could go missing. um great short synopsis thank you you're welcome i really i love writing the little short synopsis yeah because sometimes i'm like oh my god i want to talk about this book so much but like do i need to read like exactly let me record for like we're trying to shorten our synapses so that we can

talk about more books and not just you know read for two minutes at a time out yeah yeah um but boomtown My goodness. It was so gritty. Very. And I don't 100% know if an exotic dancer is considered sex work. That's a good point. But there are a lot of elements in the book where, like, some girls do extra things. Mm-hmm. There are specific rooms for extra things.

Some people are, like, meant to believe that, like, if you want to make that money, you're going to go back there and do things and keep your clients happy. And when it comes to exotic dancers, sex workers, there's so much judgment, especially when it's a woman of color of what, like, the police are doing. Like, there's, like, little to know. I don't think there's any police in this book now that I think about it. Oh, I don't think so. And that's probably exactly how it is.

Like, even the people that work in the club, like, aren't taking it seriously. yeah so it deals a lot with like racism discrimination against sex workers misogyny um and like so many things that like even somebody who I feel like like me like I feel like I'm very like open and understanding of like sex work and like non-judgmental but like I still like learned a lot from the book I agree yeah and the like well you deserve to be raped uh concept is prevalent like yeah because of your job and it's like no no actually no yeah that's so disgusting mm-hmm yeah even from like other like women mm-hmm oh yeah that work there or just that judge them that what other women that work there or just that like judge them from the

outside looking in I would say both probably both I would both. Not to spoil anything, but I would say both. I put that. I put both of your books as interested on my list. Nice. If you're an author who's listening right now, I'm sure that sometime recently you thought to yourself, I really just want to write and I don't want to have to think about social media. The good news is I have a couple solutions for you. If you just need help brainstorming ideas and building out posts and Canva, my monthly consulting might be good for you. If you're about to publish a book, I can help you with a book trailer. The other option is accumulating a content bank of both long and short form content that can be used now and generically into the future.

I love reading your books, and I know you don't love figuring out how to post on social media, so I would love to help. Follow the link in the show notes to learn more. Mine is a little less deep. Good. Good. We need some levity. And I think I've talked about this like a little bit before, but I have noticed it more. I honestly almost did female rage and revenge because it's been so long since I talked about it. However, this one I think lended itself to a little more of like a variety of genres. I've noticed how I really love books with road trips in them.

Oh, yeah, you do. I do. I really do. Oh, yeah. And some of them I was like, are we doing? five. I have five. Because some of them I'm like, oh, part of this is just like in the car. I don't know if it really counts as a road trip. But my first one, I'm actually like reading twice this year. And that is like never happened to me, I think. But I just love it so much. And I'm just

reading on story graph the who's it for because it's like three sentences. And I think it really like kind of gets the point across as far as like if you're looking for X feelings, like this be a book for you. For readers who crave bittersweet contemporary fiction about late life second chances and the messy beauty of unexpected family. Perfect if you enjoy emotionally resonant stories that balance humor and heartbreak, moderate pacing that lets characters breathe, and hopeful examination of grief, love, and redemption in everyday settings. So this one is like, it almost is like the dude from Big Lobowski. I didn't realize his brother, who's estranged from him, had two grandkids, and they end up in his custody after, like, a really bleak experience.

But somehow, like, it is handled with this, like, balance of humor. And, like, I was listening to it. I'm like, damn, this book is sad. But also, I'm, like, laughing sometimes and, like, rooting for all the characters. and like it's just like quirky enough that um like somehow it works because i have seen a review that's like um this is like traumatic and people are laughing and i'm like no she's just handling it in a really like like perfect way in my opinion and it has like a 4.4 on good reads so i'm like a lot of people feel the same way um and that's like so so fucking good yeah yeah

And I love found family. I know they're actually related, but I love found family too. That is so cool because like sometimes I think about that, like the things that I like really love, even though it's like, like it's not necessarily because it was my experience. It's just something I end up enjoying. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's this like slight hint of magical realism. Like not really, but kind of like it's there's this cat that like starts and ends. the book and like it's it's amazing like the way that this is narrated like not necessarily the audio book but like how it's written is almost to me like a document like someone looking down and talking about what's happening and there's this like cat that they think can predict death

like it always like it used to be like a nursing home and it would always like end up at the room of the next person that was going to pass away oh wow so you just kind of know it It's just like this foreshadowing thing, but like everyone loves the cat, but they'll be like, the cat almost has like an inner voice. Yeah. And it sounds really weird, but it's so natural in the book. I'm like, is this almost magical realism or not? Because you almost like don't even notice.

Mm-hmm. But I'm like, yeah, it might be like just a little sprinkle of magical realism. Yeah. Like, the main character will be like, hi, house, like, good morning. Like when he wakes up in the morning and it'll be like, the house said, good morning. and it'll be like the house said, good morning back. It's just freaking cute. When you describe it as magical,

realize some people are probably like, what? Yeah. But I don't know. I don't know. I love the cat in the last house on the street. That cat's amazing. Isn't like a little animal character just the best? Bruce says yes.

I love, yeah. I love it. Did you read A Little Life? is that the one that's like 800 pages and everyone sobs yeah no i haven't either that's my favorite found family story oh in the entire world even more than a density of souls or is that found family i don't think so it's just friend good friends that's fuck your family oh okay that's like now you sold me even more on it yeah wait does it have like really strong friends though or something is that why you ask that's what I was asking a little life oh no I was

I was asking about a density of souls no because like a density of souls is like four best friends and then like they start bullying the gay kid oh so it's like I grew up with like these three best friends and now I'm like being like bullied by them when we're in like high school and then something like other things happen within like the friendship group that like are very like crazy and traumatic and jaw-dropping. Dude, I downloaded the audio book the last time we talked about it on here, and then I've just had, like, Libby holds come through

or, like, just random stuff, but I'm, I'm like this close to starting it. That's why I was thinking about it. You're going to fucking love how he writes. I think, well, and I loved his bone, what is it? Bone music. Oh, music. Mm-hmm, that series.

Yeah. This is, like, a little bit more... Yeah. It's kind of... like Jessica Noel meets John Fram. Oh, damn. Yeah, I'll love it. Like a chapter ends and you're just like, oh, yeah.

For some reason I thought it would be longer, the audio book is eight hours and 40 minutes. I know, I saw that. That'll be a fast one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at the beginning of the episode, I was like, this is crazy that we are talking about Nordic noir. That's funny. Because my next one is stalker by Lars Kepler, which was a gear recommendation.

So I died when you were like, I don't think I could write that. I'm like, I can't believe we're talking about it. And then Steph, you were like, we haven't talked about Nordic noir and forever. And I'm like, oh, my God. So the synopsis for this one, a killer sends the Swedish national crime unit videos of his unsuspecting victims before brutally murdering them, tossing the police with each new tape as detective margot silverman brings in yonelina and trauma expert eric maria bark to stop the escalating spree it becomes clear that bark's own buried it's maybe the key to catching a predator who's always one step ahead um yeah everything we said about nordic noir like lots of murder lots of winter lots of like gore not in the horror way but like in the Nordic noir way but I was like this is actually this one

specifically is such a good example of dramatic irony because even like the killer is like for the killer is even like telling the police stuff that like the victim doesn't even know they're about to be murdered and we're like watching a scene of them not knowing so like that part is intense but then the other part of Nordic noir in general is you often get the killer's perspective you're like often getting those chapters so it's like peak use of dramatic irony because you often do know where the character is headed or the killer is headed and then when you switch back into like a main character you're like oh no they don't know this is happening so i feel like the genre in general is dramatic irony but this one specifically with these like videos of these victims who don't even know they're about to be killed i was like this one fits oh my god i love it that book like terrifying terrifies me that one in the chestnut man stuck with me yeah yeah the chestnut me oh my god i want to the kills in the chestnut man were like um i don't know like reminiscent

of like something from like scream where like i was like you're gonna get away you can do this like just like fucking run your little face off yeah um but stalker for me had that almost like cat and mouse way of like you don't have a chance like I feel like when like in like the chestnut man it was like very much

like suspenseful chasing and like stuff like that and with stalker it was like almost like you could watch somebody get backed into a corner with nowhere to go yes when someone's like stalking you like they know the layout of like your home and they like know that when he's by the time he's taking the video he knows that like no one's going to be there to help

them like he has yeah yeah it's terrifying yeah that's what i really like to it's like the killer has like a cat and mouse game with like the victim and the police at the same time yeah um but yeah that one was really really really creepy so good yeah i love that series i know i think i've read three of them I've read all of them. I have not read all of them. I've read all of them. Oh my God, they're so good.

I actually don't know if I've been on an episode where you guys have talked about. Yeah, we might not have. I feel like it just was like me reminiscing about like listening. Yeah. Yeah, we haven't talked about one in a while. So my second one is my own little interpretation. No, what's the word I'm looking for? We say it all the time.

My own little segue. Oh. So if you enjoy Boomtown or you're interested in Boomtown, real easy by Maria Ocicki. I was hoping you talk about it. Oh, my God. I love it. So good.

So in 1999, Samantha has been a dancer at the lovely lady strip club for years and does not make friends easily at work. When a new girl needs a ride home, Samantha decides to give her a ride only for the car to be run off the road. When the police show up, there's only one body at the scene of the accident. Now, another dancer named Georgia is helping Detective Holly with the investigation. Featuring a plethora of POVs, the story is told through perspectives of detectives, club patrons, children, and the women of lovely lady. this is like boomtown meets notes on an execution like all of the different like

I was like wow I was like are you being sarcastic oh she was being genuine but like all of the different perspectives I was like oh my god like I feel like when it's like two or three like it's more interesting but like there's also like

little pieces you pick up when there's like Steve who goes to the lovely lady club for like chicken wings and lap dances and then there's like someone's child and there's like a detective who cares a lot there's a cop who doesn't care at all

you know so it's like another example of like misogyny um you know in like the 90s they were like Stripper went missing, like she probably just quit her job. Yeah, like,

probably ran off with a boyfriend. Yeah, because women just do that so often. I don't know if this is in the book, or if it's even in Boomtown, or if this is just like me, being me, like a man hater. But I feel like one of the worst stereotypes

for an exotic dancer is like if an exotic dancer goes missing, the cops automatically assume like maybe she met a rich client and like he offered her money and she just like took off. Yeah, that happens all the time. Oh my God. Yeah, because like $500 is going to make her like cut ties with everybody in her life and like quit her job for to retire. Yeah, you're right. It also has like an assumption of like her hating her life.

that's like the other part of it where you're like maybe she fucking loves loved her life yeah and that she would just be like oh you're rich save me and that that guy would like actually do that because it's like the cops will act like that and then like when you're like in the perspective of the dancer like she's like oh fuck like here's like this guy he's like so annoying like it almost be like it's almost like written in the same way like it was if like you worked out like

as a barista and you were like oh my god this woman's such a fucking pain in the ass when she comes to get her coffee like that's and then like once you're out with that strip club like she's not going to think about you again no unless you remember regular yeah and you treat her respectfully mm-hmm I remember you I remember you said you read Reddit stuff right because I feel like we talked about how like you didn't know what the audio book might like since it has so many perspectives it is only one narrator though is it yeah interesting and it says it says at least on the audible version that there's a bonus conversation between the author and the narrator and now that makes me want to listen to it even

more than like compared to read it she had her own experiences that she included in the book oh wow yeah okay yeah i've got to yeah i need to listen to this one i need to like add it to my before the end list. Right after density of souls. Yeah. Yeah. I have a busy December, guys. This one had so many like quotable, tabbable things.

I was like, oh, if you liked Mayor of East Town and please see us and not's in an execution and we're all in the same. Wow. Like, I just have to do it. Wow. Oh, my God. Those comps are just incredible. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't need to. Oh, my God. I love how I'm like, I wrote. even tabbed a few pages, mostly powerful observations, observing how women often and unfortunately accommodate men's shortcomings. That's on that. I don't know why I'm saying that tonight, but I am.

Oh, my gut punch is what I described it as. God, I like that book so much. I love that one. So good. Hmm. So good. Speaking of bleak. I just finished a book that's coming out in December called Needle Lake by Justine Champine. She also wrote needle or sorry, this is Needle Lake.

She also wrote Knife River. Oh, I mean, those are similar. Yes. This is from the 90s also about a teen girl. who works at her mom's store in this tiny town and her cousin comes to stay with her who is like kind of seems fabulous whereas like the main character Ida is like you can tell she's on this spectrum but it's not really said um and she's just like kind of um like bullied a lot but she's like enthralled by her cousin and her cousin actually like listens to her which is

amazing and it's her which is cool um but says a moody coming of age literary suspense for readers who savor slow burn tension lyrical introspection and the perilous ache of idolizing someone who might pull you under wow wow i know i think that last part is like yeah the last part saying that is like you know something's brewing even though there's like really good things about a person right like nobody's all good or all bad right and so um but in the also like 250 pages. That's what I was just seeing. Like, even if it's a slow burn, it doesn't mean it goes on forever is kind of what

was making me think. And being in Ida's world is like, it's kind of a slow burn as far as the plot, but like her world isn't boring. Yeah. Like her mindset is not boring. Man, I need to read both of these. I do love how it's like, it's like utensil body of water are her books so far. Yes.

And the road trip aspect comes in because an event happens and they kind of have to hit the road. So it's not meant to be like a road trip book, but they definitely have a little getaway action. Nice. I love read it so bad. We have like such a cool range in this episode since all of our topics are so cool. I'm also like staring at Knife River because I ordered it. The last time Steph talked about it and it's like here

and I'm like Dude her hair is stunning this author I just pulled it up on in good reads Her hair is amazing She does bleak well I'll say that I'm gonna love it Yeah I was like another author for me to

Oh my god I know isn't her hair stunning It's giving Nicole Kidman in practical magic Yes Yep oh yeah well I can actually

bounce off of practical magic ooh oh no nice so I am currently reading this one right now it is Dark Sisters by Christy is it Demeter or Demester I don't have it right in front of me

Oh that one? Yeah So I'm reading that one right now oh it is so good a generational curse links three women across centuries a persecuted healer who makes a dangerous bargain after being labeled a witch a trapped housewife risking everything for forbidden love and a preacher's defiant daughter drawn to an ancient power as their stories collide each woman must confront the darkness that has shaped her fate and decide whether she'll be consumed by it or break the cycle one once and for all. This was all kinds of up my alley as you can tell. The dramatic irony in some of it is actually how it's structured. So because we're getting these three different timelines, and you're going from like 17 or 1780 or something to 1950 and to 2008. So like when you're in the 2008 chapter, you actually do have more.

information from the past and so the defiant preacher's daughter is the 2008 one and actually there's some similar things going on to where like she's naive because of her sheltered upbringing so you're getting that dramatic irony too is just that like she has been sheltered herself but also because of the alternating timelines there are times where you're like oh I know that this happened back then and I wonder if that's why this happened here so it's been a really good one like it's when i read read books not listen they take so much longer for me to get through lately but like this one has me just like in the morning i wake up and i'm like try to get your work done as fast as possible so you can get back to dark sisters so that's my other one

i remember seeing it on neck galley so i'm like definitely interested it is really good i've highlighted a lot of things very lyrical writing oh this is when i was texting you about too like the women of wild hill like definitely is dark and it has dark moments but like in some ways i feel like it could be like a pg 13 movie yeah the vibes i'm getting from dark sisters is we are going very similar i think it's the three generations of three timelines too um but it's grittier so it's like if you kind of want like an r-rated version i think anyone who enjoyed women of wild hill will enjoy this one too Let's do it.

Did you read such a pretty smile by her? No, I haven't. I ordered it and I haven't read it yet. Have you read it? I really want to read it. No, I've heard it's, uh, I've heard good things. I have too. I've heard really good things.

I heard it's like a thriller with like horror elements. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I. Yeah. Yeah. Um, fuck, that sounds good too, though. because I just like I'm like I'm dipping my toes a little bit

in like historical fiction yeah yeah because I just finished Mad Woman and I fucking loved it Oh Mm-hmm Wait I thought you read it a while ago My Chelsea Beaker

You mean Madwife? Madwife Oh oh okay I did love Mad Woman too But I finished Madwife Yes oh my announcement flopped so good were you riled this is the last in the back half i was riled the whole thing yeah well that too but i was like holy yeah the 1950 chapter is reminding me of that book

in dark sisters very similar to the madwife oh yeah very similar oh my god let's do it i want it i want it I want it now. Well, if you are also looking for something that involves multiple female perspectives that will make you hate certain men, I've got one for you. Based on a true story. I was about to make a joke and be like, life. And then you said that. These women by Ivy Pachota. Ooh, good.

one of my favorite books in the entire world, loosely based off from the real true crime case, The Grim Sleeper, which also I have a true crime book that I read called The Grim Sleeper. And it was fantastic. It has like a yellow or orange cover. I can't find it now. But if you're interested, I also recommend that one. Because I think that certain people who commit crimes, like I think that true crime should not be like oh my god this is so entertaining and eat your popcorn but like let's call these men out and these people out for like the bad bullshit that they do and also like bring awareness to the fact that like it's not just like let's solve Susie's murder it's like this could happen to you too so like be aware be rude do whatever it takes to survive and don't fucking trust men yeah these women in South Las Angeles are the ones that are on the corner, in the club, and got what they deserved. In this story, five women are connected by one man, including Dorian, a woman still grieving her daughter's unsolved murder, Juliana, a young dancer who lives fast and hard,

Essie, a vice cop who sees a crime pattern no one else is willing to see, Morella, a performance artist whose work has now put her in danger, and Anika, I believe, a quiet woman who has turned a blind eye for too long. All five women's lives begin to crumble when two murders occur in their neighborhood. So, wild, crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I took, like, from the blurb, the, like, these are the women that are on the corner and the

club and got what they deserve because that's kind of the main, like, focus of the book is, like, people believing that, like, these murders happen because, like, they deserved it, almost. So, yeah, all of these women. having different crazy perspectives in being so well written and such, like, believable characters did kind of give me, like, pleecious vibes with, like, the Jane Does. But also, like, the way that they're all connected is crazy. So it's like a really good, dark, gritty, gritty, gritty, gritty, gritty, gritty, gritty,

thriller. Yeah. But I really like the message behind it and, like, how they could just, like, bring more awareness to the fact that just because somebody is a, sex worker or working on a corner as they say like does not mean that like they are living an at risk lifestyle because they're just doing anything they can to survive and sometimes that's what it's all about is survival. Did you read that one Kate? No I'm not only because you read it right you did Bonnie Turpin's one of the narrators and she so I bought the audio book it was it was 499

recently I was just looking to see but sorry go ahead It isn't, I believe, it's been a long time. Wasn't, I think, whoever her character was, she kind of comes in and out. I think she's, like, in the back of a police car or she's at the police station. And they don't even, like, listen to the people that are there. Like, the people who witness, they're just, like, around in the businesses in, in this part of the city. Like, people just don't even listen to them. And they have, like, the perspective, right?

Like, isn't that kind of part of it, Gare? that like people just don't even listen to people who know what's happening they're like yeah yeah well that's relevant too like I think that's why there's um excuse me there's the the vice cop who has like the theory that nobody else is like willing to like piece together yeah is because like it's not only like a rough neighborhood but it's like sex workers and like I can't remember 100% with the book but I know that like the real grim sleeper case was prominently black women.

So, yeah. But also like the arc is just a stutter. Oh yeah, that covers so good. Donner. The cover, the lighting is amazing. Oh, my God. I just am. I'm just obsessed.

Yeah. Kate, I think you will like this one because it's not your typical multi POV where it like goes back and forth it's um it's parts

oh like part one is part one is like one woman's story part two is another woman's story part three and so forth and I think there's I actually think there's five stories yeah there are five stories but like you kind of like piece it together with like the women

and then like other ones show up later and I think that's like a really cool way to do it because like yes um it's interesting to get all of those perspectives and like put it together with like the vice cop yeah um but also get like her perspective as well I love that so now during the fires too what's that it's during the fires too right in L.A. Mm-hmm. I'm like which year. Oh yeah but I think there's like and like some my gosh. It's a very action-packed ending. I have 40 minutes left in my current audiobook,

and I'm like, am I going to listen to a density of souls or these women, or what was the other one? There's something else. Yeah, there's so much. American Psycho. Real easy. Really easy. That was the other one, yep.

Gare's just really making it hard. Save American Psycho for last. Okay. I saw multiple reviews of that on my Goodread. feed lately. I can't stop thinking about it. He was on fail when dear, like, mentioned it. He like, text me one night. He was like, so are you going to read American Psycho now?

And I literally just pulled up Audible and saw it was like 499 and I was like, well, I bought it. I was like, I was like bored a couple weeks ago and it was like a Friday or Saturday night. And I was like, I just need to put on like a comfort movie and I put on American Psycho. I was like, let me just, just let me just let me

make fun of Patrick Bateman to like comfort myself. There is something very soothing about that. Yeah. Yeah. Like judge away. I also know like I probably would have slept with Patrick Bateman, but I also would have hated him. And that's exactly my taste of men. In my 20s? Thank you. I can understand. You do love Nate almost more than

Jacob Allorty. I know. I know. God. What a beautiful human being. he is unfairly hot yeah and he likes to read yeah right loves to read and he fucking loves the most gentle giant coated person ever and he's hot and he reads that's where I'm like what's your red flag I know I'm so scared especially after Sidney Sweeney's like hey I'm like please don't do this with Jacob a Lordy too I will be so happy if I never see Sydney Sweeney's face ever again I can't believe how quickly I guess maybe it wasn't quickly but like I was like

neutral positive generally and then I'm like oh okay I'm like I actually hate you like why is she taking her Brun like because literally like okay and hanging out have you seen all the theories that she's the third in the Bezos relationship

because that cracks my shit up that's hilarious actually she like dodged a bullet with like yeah the birthday party or with her and like all of her Yeah.

You don't have to, you don't have to, you know, like. You can't control what, basically are family members. For anyone who couldn't see the gesture I just made with, she was with family members who were wearing like MAGA paraphernalia, basically. Yeah. And like everyone stuck up for her because they were like, majority of the people that are complaining about this are saying that like, you probably have family members that you're not like cutting out of your life who probably voted for Trump. And like, she dodged a bullet with that. And then, like, the American Eagle thing, like, you literally could have said, like... She just could have said something better.

You could have literally said, I didn't write this ad. You could... Exactly. I don't know what their thoughts were. And this kind of went in one ear and out of the other, and I didn't realize how people were going to take it. Just, yeah. Just say it. And, like, she was just like, when I have something to say, I'll say it.

And then she's like... I know I'm just just that apathetic like oh yeah it's not to be that apathetic early you can at least say something that you like want to be a good person right

that would literally just say that you're not racist and she couldn't even do that you could like literally literally just say like her media training is like so far gone it's like ridiculous it's ridiculous and then you're dating and I've heard she's kind of

I think she she doesn't know not being I think she thinks she's invincible and so far being hot with she's dodged every bullet for being hot like can make you feel that way so we'll just we'll see how it goes I mean when you're that close to Jeff Bezos too I'm sure there's an amount of you that you're like who's going to cancel me like I mean that Bezos is paying for my clothing line and in her defense also she already kind of of warned us because oh yeah she did an interview and said like they were like what's a huge misconception with you and she was like people think that i'm a dumb blonde with big tits but i'm actually a brunette i know so she actually just said like she you didn't speak up about the dumb part

i know so you kind of warned us yes and i did you know that then people got mad because dolly partner originally gave that response like two decades ago and so then people were like she thought she was so smart and she's just quoting dolly pardon i'm like who cares if she's quoting dolly pardon like don't mean she's as cool as dolly pardon that's true never gonna be this way yeah i didn't even have strong feelings about her until the last few months and like now it just you just you're just like whoa okay right but not not with sir jacob a lordy yet no no little bookish boy and i'm very curious to know what happens because the third season of euphoria is coming out and early 2026.

Did you see the news that he's not going to be in all the episodes? Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. He knows that's where you're going. He's not going to be in all of the episodes, but like, that's, when you've watched Euphoria as much as I have, that's very common because there are like some episodes.

Well, there's like some episodes where like you're very focused on Rue the entire time. Right. And there are some that like she's in it for like three minutes. Yeah. So it's like very like it switches back and. forth. But people are saying that they think that a lot of cast members aren't going

to want to do scenes with her. Publicity with her. Because it's already been filmed. Zendaya already said she won't. Is that confirmed? I just heard she was not into like I just heard Zendaya doesn't really like her right now. But I didn't know that if there were scenes. I heard the same thing about Alexa Demi. She plays Maddie.

I don't blame I mean I wouldn't want to like you're saying it's a lot different than just having relatives wearing MAGA stuff like this is about her now

like it's Alexa to me could kick some ass yeah yeah I'm obsessed with her oh god I just want Maddie to be real like seriously it'd be so hard to like be her mom

but like I'd be so proud of her you know what I mean at the same time yeah yeah I love when when mom are like, man, I really wanted to raise a strong child or a strong girl, but damn, it is that's what I refer to me. She's like, my daughter doesn't take shit from anyone, but it means like, I don't know how to parent her. Yeah. Oh, wow. I love it. Oh, my God. That's so

funny. Maybe Cassie will get killed off. A little Sidney's side tangent. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, my segue was serial killer from these women so we'll go that way back up a little bit my next road trip book is Julia Haberlain's paper ghosts and I don't know if I've ever talked about this one before it's about this woman whose sister was killed and she thinks it's this man Carl who's now old and in like a memory care facility um he used to be a photographer in Texas and so she picks him up and takes him on this road trip trying to figure out what happened oh my god it says for it is kind of a slowburn but i like loved it um for readers drawn to psychological suspense about the slippery nature of memory and truth it's for those who relish

slow burn character driven mysteries with unreliable narrators sun bleaked at Texas atmosphere and the unsettling hush between what's forgotten and what's merely hidden. It is really interesting because I know some people really struggle. Kate's mind is like exploding right now. I'm like so many good things. She's like another audio book on the list. I know. It's like it's fascinating because so I think who brought it to my attention was Sabrina.

Gotcha. Oh, yeah. Her mom struggled with dementia. Yeah. And so sometimes I like, I like, I see that now. Like it can be hard when that's used as like a trope kind of. Yeah. So I totally understand that.

Yep. This is like such a hard thing though that when a person who maybe wasn't a good person also is struggling with their memory, but also probably wouldn't tell you even if they weren't. Like it's just such a fascinating concept. So. It's kind of like the ghost. writer which is crazy that has ghost in it too yeah yeah um so it's a it's a really interesting book i and i love julia haverlin so it's kind of got that like a lot of her earlier

books all serial killers too one of her first ones that have like the black covers like the flowers kind of like the women in the flower uh black eyed susans um before that her other there's one called lying, play dead and lie still or something. Yeah. I think the one I read by her had like a lot going on like so much going on. I've heard her like earlier ones are like a lot about like serial killers and like very like psychologically dark.

Yeah. I've been drawn to them. Yeah. I think to me as she's in my opinion since I've read them kind of long ago now, they become more focused. on like instead of having so many characters and so many things going on to me they've become more focused in a good way I don't really remember the one I read that was her older one I think I've more enjoyed her newer ones I still need to read we are all the same in the dark as well oh I think you'd really like one of the

strong women she would love that one I just kind of forgot about her as an author I want her to I want her to come until now yeah yeah i don't know what i'm going to list to oh um i did want to say for some people because we have talked about uh kind of like trigger warnings a couple times uh basically i think all most of our approaches is like we don't we just don't even really have any to like look for in it mostly but it is a shout out to story graph with most books like there is a section where you can look there so if you are someone who like really does want to know like about any of them story graph does actually have a section that typically has a lot of answers for you so right and it'll be like mild dementia like you're saying it'll be like mild moderate yeah

intense like it's kind of yeah so just fine I just love the tools yeah it's at the very bottom and like you don't have to look at it like you can click view summary because i know some people find it like a spoiler and other people need it so yep yeah i thought that was really smart they have a couple really intuitive things that are not on good reads but then there are other things about good reads that i like so i just do both same okay well that sounded good yeah i don't know how i'm going to choose what i'm going to read next after this episode um but uh my next one oh go ahead oh no i know what you're reading next um my next one hold on bruce distracted me uh is sky full of elephants by sabo williams who has been on sabo i think it's sebo i don't know why i said it like that who has been on the podcast um after a

mysterious event causes every white American to walk into the nearest body of water. A black professor named Charles Brunton meets his traumatized daughter, Sydney, for the first time, and agrees to help her cross a transformed America in search of other surviving family. As they journey toward the so-called kingdom of Alabama, both father and daughter are forced to confront who they are, what they've lost, and what community and identity mean in a radically changed world um i just realized some of it could be considered spoilers if i really dive into why dramatic irony is happening but let i don't think it's entirely a spoiler to say that sydney his daughter is she's biracial uh he's black her father's black and her mom was white and so uh but she only grew up

with her white family and was estranged from her dad matter her whole life um so some of the dramatic irony in her chapters comes down to naiveness which I guess makes sense because it's like a situation where we know more than that person but it's like she's grown up in that bubble and is like not aware of other things that are happening so especially when you're in her chapters you're like I don't think you know about this like and I really can't say more without giving spoilers but that's the dramatic irony part of it naivete sounds really interesting especially being in that if she's younger yeah yeah i think she's like 17 something like that i do love a perspective from an adult in an adult book yeah i do love it

that's what i was really with i'm realizing with i'm medusa i wonder if some people are going to say it's why i because she's 17 years old but like it deals with heavy stuff yeah but i mean if it's if it's there's just like sometimes a difference in like the approach to writing i agree yeah like even though they're even though the character is younger it doesn't right they always but you know their mindset like their maturity level is young but that's not how to speak necessarily I agree damn I want to read that too

I don't want to read all of that it's like it's it is speculative and there is suspense to the speculative part but it's not it's definitely not a thriller it just sounds interesting but it's fun too like the way he

yeah just the way he uses that concept to like talk about stuff is pretty cool it sounds like the way that it approaches race is also something that is like educational for some people yes there is a lot of nuance like one of the things I want to say but I'm like it is better to find it out as you read it yeah um well if you want to book and his next book is like going to be horror and at the time that I interviewed him we were talking about cinders and he said kind of in that vein so I am very excited for his next one oh my god you're gonna go feral mm-hmm so I love that I think I'm out of thoughts now you're like add to TBR I want

this to be my next audio book right um well if you want to know somebody who's the next book I can't wait for her it is the love of my life Jennifer Hillier nice so my next one is things we do in the dark which deals with sex work as well. I honestly guys I'm going to say this is Jennifer Hillier's darkest book.

Really? Yeah. Oddly enough my second favorite Jennifer Hillier book. So the police have found Paris Peralta covered in blood and are charging her for the murder of her famous comedian husband. But the worst part of his Paris is

actually terrified of the media coverage and the past she's worked so hard to keep hidden. 25 years earlier, Ruby Ray is known as the Ice Queen, was convicted of a similar murder in the early 90s in Canada, and Ruby is the one person who knows who Paris really is. When Ruby is released from prison unexpectedly, Paris has no choice but to confront her dark and harrowing past. And girls, does she ever? Oh, my God. I'm not going to throw her to the bus.

everybody has their own taste but like my friend Nicole that like always reads anything I tell her to read is like I couldn't like this one just didn't work for me and I was like that's okay like reading subjective like she loved jar of hearts I was like that's okay like reading subjective but I was like you're wrong though but you're wrong but you you're wrong if you tell me that you can't get through a Jennifer Hillier book I think you should find a new hobby Oh, that's funny. Like my, I will get a Jennifer Hillier tattoo one day of something, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, if you can't finish a Jennifer Hillier book, I'm really sorry that, um, I'm really sorry to hear that you, that you've had to give up reading for the rest of your life. I'm really sorry that you have to look in the mirror every morning and say, I'm the problem. It's me. So, yeah, Jennifer Hillier can do no wrong.

This one, I don't know if it's, like, as educational as the others, but, like, there are some elements that I can't really say without spoiling it that, like, made me kind of be like, this could really happen, and it's believable. So, just a wild and dark and twisty ride and very cold. Yes. Very cold. It is. this was my first one by her i found it randomly on book of the month like when i first started reading i have the book of the month version yeah actually and then it just like spiraled from there this is the one this is the one that i bought the the paperback copy of because my art goes in

the dark and i don't want to reread it oh jarvarts was my first one and then i don't even remember my order then i think things we do in the dark came out shortly after I read Jar of Hearts because I'm at gear. I think I read Creep like very early

like before I even had good reads early yeah and then I got an arc of Jar of Hearts when that came out and like that was one of like the books that like everybody was talking about it you know what I mean and like I was like oh my God I've never heard of Jennifer Hillier

and then I was like no I've read one of her books and then I read Jar of Hearts and I fell in love and I know it's not like the best time for everybody but like I remember when like we first entered lockdown during COVID my thing was I'm going to read I read every single Jennifer Hillier book from start to finish in the order that they came out and like picked up on all the Easter eggs and like just had the best time and like want to do it again

my Christmas present to myself this year might be rereading all of Jennifer Hillier's books Oh that's a good one of you had a Christmas present Jackdoll's halls With jars of hearts Yeah That'd be cool I'll put it up for Valentine's

That's true I just saw my review of things we do in the dark And I quoted this part where she said She was familiar with that smile She'd seen it too many times It was the smile monsters war When they were when they were pretending They weren't monsters

isn't that like visceral like men who or anyone I guess but mostly men who like have that smile they're like I'm not a monster everyone loves me and they truly think that's true where do they

gross but sometimes you find out that that smile went from being a smile like that to a smile that is covered in adult acne and karma hits a spot what a satisfying scene

yeah metaphorical wash your face and learn your manners if you'll wash your face you shouldn't stress yourself out I oh my god I think I just channeled page male epidemic where

yeah be lonelier sorry I have no segue there's some yellow on the cover I don't know is this our last one or do we have one more one more one more okay if you have time

okay I mine I'm leaning back into like a funnier it's called I thought you said this would work by Anne Garvin and there was a moment in this book where I, like, died laughing and called AJ. Like, there's just, like, some, like, and it's like, it was a bitchy moment that was so fucking funny. I love that you called him and you're like, listen to this. I was like, I don't think I could ever use this joke on somebody, but it was so good because it's like mean. And I'm like, oh, so I kind of mentioned a little bit why there's this road trip.

There's some, like, friendship drama. There's a trio of friends. There's some friendship drama. but the two estranged friends have to go get this lady's dog so she can, like, be at peace while she's sick. And it's a friendship story. There's also, like, this weird, like, third person that, like, joins their road trip that you're like, who the fuck are you? But, like, very funny. For readers who crave humorous, heartfelt contemporary fiction about the messy work of mending fractured friendships,

Perfect if you enjoy medium-paced stories with emotional depth, witty dialogue, and the healing power of shared history over high-stakes drama or elaborate plots. Yeah. I love a friendship story, as you know. Yes. I really do. It just works. Yeah.

Like, I think there's something about the chosenness of it. To me, that's, like, more touching and heart-wrenching than family a lot, to me. Or maybe the same thing with fond family. Like the choice in it. Yeah. It makes it more intense for me. Yeah, because it's not a default. It's a choice.

Yeah. Oh, the extra person that joins is a boho D-list celebrity, which I just, like, loved that. Oh, that's amazing. Just needed a little fun in my life. What's it called again? Oh, sorry. I thought you said this would work. Okay.

I think I might add it. It's so good. I love like snarky bitchy dialogue. It just like makes my heart melt. When there's like a long friendship history, but it's kind of gone south, so they're kind of just like bitchy at each other, but they know they have to like make it work. It, like the humor lands

usually. Yeah. Yeah. Because I have like a recommendation for you, but I don't know if you've read it. So like I'm going to wait until you're till the end of it and be like, I think that you would love this fucking book. Really? Okay. well my last one narrated by my girl angel peen who i cannot stop talking about um is happy land by dolin perkins valdez and i think it's bonnie turpin is the other one actually the two narrators um oh i was about to read the whole synopsis but a woman named denicky returns to north kansas Lina seeking answers only to discover her family's hidden legacy, a real kingdom once built by

formerly enslaved people in the Appalachian Mountains. As she learns about Queen Luella and the kingdom of the happy land, Nikki realizes her identity and her family's future depend on protecting the land that was nearly taken from them. So you get dual timelines, you get Luella's story, and then you get Nikki, which is like present. present day um but this is i think luella's it's right at right post civil war so like 18 1860s i think um but when you you have there are a couple things going on it it's another one kind of like how i started talking about junie at the beginning it's one where when you're in her perspective like luella just thinks like wow we finally are free and i have land and like so that

some of the dramatic irony in that timeline is we know that a lot of the land was not given and it was also taken back. But you also know because of timeline hopping or yeah, timeline hopping because you're learning stuff with Nikki who's kind of like researching the present and then we're like the past is like unfolding in between as she tries to find these answers. So yeah, that's a dramatic irony part. But I just, I loved it. The past timelines, it was like, there's, there's some quote about, like, when they actually

are living in community with each other and the, like, reading about how their approach to a kingdom was, like, isn't so hierarchical and it's matriarchal. So, like, the past timeline, there's some line about, like, maybe this is what he meant when he said heaven on earth and i was just like that's like one of the things i remember the most about it is like they the way they actually all took care of each other in a matriarchal kingdom basically so that part i just loved like i still think about that sometimes the family dynamics were good in the past timeline too was just like so interesting very fascinating like way back in the day when men

would just like go off to do things and you would just have like no idea if they were coming back or not like it's yeah what a wild going on a hunt and then he's just gone yeah the dream it's like that thing I keep seeing on TikTok where it's like and men used to go to war yes I just was thinking about that too remember when yeah I remember a war to die What genre would you say that was that book? Probably

That's a good question because it's not all historical fiction And it's kind of temporary It's not like thriller or horror though No Okay Yeah this says historical fiction Contemporary fiction

African American Like that's like a genre listed on Goodreads. Anything like Appalachia scares me. Oh. So like I want to make sure that it's not like I can't even see like the TikToks where like the women like

are pulling their curtains at night. Scary Appalachie girls. Yeah. And you can't you can't look outside the dark window. Yeah. Wait, why? What? Because.

Because it's ghosty. No, because you'll see something. Like if you live in Appalachia. And you, like, walk by a window that's not, like, covered with a curtain. If you, like, look out into it, you will see something. Because, like, weird shit happens in the Appalachian Mountains. There's this kind of ongoing. I saw one, someone who was, like, pretending to me.

Or monsters. Oh. We don't know. I'm, it just freaks me out. What's funny, you should look at the Happy Land cover. And then you'll be like, oh, yeah, they're not creepy. Appalachia. I just don't know if I could do it.

So I was like, I don't blame you. It's worth asking. I want to make sure. Oh, yeah. No, I can do this. I love the cover, though. It's so pretty. It's beautiful.

Mm-hmm. I love that. Trying to figure. Great colors. Mm-hmm. I agree. So, like, I would compare it to, like, indigenous folklore

like the I'm not saying it out loud um but there's like a lot of like lore lore literally yeah about Appalachia and like you don't go into the woods alone

you don't like if you hear something you don't like if you're in the woods by yourself you don't look in that direction if you hear something or somebody's talking to you you don't like because like if like if you make eye contact with something like you get mangled up and die it's basically like a stephen king book but people believe in it right but it's like the stories scared the living shit out of me yeah i can't do it i get it that's okay um but speaking of things that um don't scare the shit out of me i um my last pick is the girl and

6E by A.R. Tori. Hey. I... Oh, my God. I love this one. So, Deanna Madden is a cam girl who has obeyed by three rules

in the last three years of her life. Don't leave your apartment. Don't let anyone into your apartment and don't kill anyone. Which just sounds like a dream. But now her life's about to take a drastic turn when she realizes that some rules are meant to be broken. And it's like an erotic thriller.

um so i read the first one or this one it's a trilogy this is the first and a trilogy and i read the first one like years and years and years ago and i was like oh yeah like she's a cam girl because she can't leave her apartment and like this was before like people worked remotely and it's an erotic thriller so i was like this is really hot and like it opens the door to like if you have, I'm going to call it a consensual kink because I feel like the voyeurism aspect like has to be very consensual obviously. Like if you're just like a creepy peeping tom, then like go to hell. But like the fact that like there's just like certain things that people are into and like finding what is available and consensual with others in that kink you may have

was like very spicy and hot but like I also love the thriller aspect of it yeah and I read the first book and I loved it and then I didn't finish the second book because of personal life things that I was like I don't I can't read anything right now and then I never read the third one so now I think I want to reread the trilogy yeah you should there's a lot of people that want a fourth one and are kind of bumming I love I love her A lot of her thrillers have worked to me. There's like a couple that like risk weren't my jam and that's okay. But because the ones that did work for me really made up for it.

But this, that first book was a stunner. Short chapters. Like short chapters keeps your attention. Kind of a unique. I mean, honestly a unique premise. Yeah. It would be an unique premise now, but it was especially unique back then too when it came out. Because I think that was like maybe one of her first thrillers, if not her first thriller.

Because she was romance. Yeah. And yeah, every now and then I get recommendations from Amazon for her romance books. And I'm like, why is this in my? And then I'm like, oh, it's Alessandra. Yeah. There's one called like the ghost writer or something. And I think it is more romance, but it might have like a mystery.

That's the one I think maybe I'm like the most interested in of all of them. And I just like kind of forgetting about it. Yeah. Well, I guess speaking of like bold women's, messy women. I didn't really know which one to do for my last one, but the one that really fit road trip the most was he started it by Samantha Downing. Yes. And there's this chika on the cover.

It is very much like a sibling story, inheritance. So if those are kind of your jams, like very up and down relationship between the siblings, I guess I would say. It says for readers drawn to psychological thrillers about family dysfunction and the corrosive lure of inheritance, ideal if you like dark, tense narratives with unreliable narrators, secrets that slowly unravel, and that queasy feeling of laughing while things are going terribly wrong. Perfect for fans of morally gray characters and twisty domestic suspense. yes i was shocked by the ending i was so cinematic like it's like in my head right now i read years ago i love that one i think it was one of my like i started

samantha downing's books with for your own good and then went to like his lovely wife and then i think the twisted love story and then this one because it was just like one of the last ones i got yeah um she just has like she's a great snarky writer yes she is did you read too old for this not yet i have it but i haven't read it yet make an ex yeah you are going to fucking love it yeah talk about snark it's her snarkiest book yet i would completely agree it's like it's technically the voiciest book somehow yeah oh my god you're gonna oh my god you're just gonna love it i have it on my shelf and I just kind of keep like reading books not on my shelf like you know what I yeah I read he started it in 2020 and I remember that much about it oh that's my first

yeah yeah oh my drive-bys were love you to death by Christina dotson which I know Kate's talked about We've both talked about, or a couple of us, I think, have talked about no place left to hide by Megan Lally. Because it takes a place in a car, not really road trip, but like coast to Portland. That ending. Yeah, that was wild. And then also Murder Road by Simone St. James, which was like road trip and 90s nostalgia. Mm-hmm. You have so many good ones.

Trust issues by Greg Wands and Elizabeth McKeele. mechanical keyland that's in your list drive eyes that's one you need to read oh really oh my god like these two rich siblings oh my god there's not a road trip is oh there is that there is a little bit of a road trip of yeah yeah they are yep they do have to travel they yeah you're right um it kind of i think gregg i don't know if it was gregg or liz maybe it was both of them but like they were like when they like before it was like announced they were like think like think like sibling road trip. Oh, nice.

And I was like, okay. And like the road trip isn't like a huge part, but like if you want like snarky, snarky, oh my God. They like don't give a fuck what they say. And it was like, it's the only book I've ever annotated. Really? Like that's how many times I've laughed out loud with the dialogue. Yes.

The dialogue was so good. Oh, I love that. Yeah. The dialogue really makes it for me when I think about. um like funniness you know what I mean

it has to be like oh are they just like being bitchy and bantering like that's what I love about like that's what actually makes me laugh typically there's like one part where like the brother says something to the sister about like her cell phone

and like I think they're in their 30s oh yeah like they're not like late 20s or anything like they're like grown grown adults and like he says something to her and she's like I'm a fucking influencer that's why and like she just like snaps on it but like literally like any

intrusive thought that you wanted to like say to somebody like these siblings say back to each other and it's just like gold when it comes to dialogue it is. The ending is also very cinematic and memorable mm-hmm and there's an Easter egg

there's an Easter egg of me in it yes oh I love that yeah trust issues yeah I think we have a little bit of everything

for everyone in this episode I'd imagine