Bookwild - Carinn Jade's The Astrology House: A Group Getaway, An Astrologist with a Secret, and Free Will vs Fate

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

This week, I talk with Carinn Jade about her deliciously twisty thriller The Astrology House.  We dive into her lifelong interest in astrology, the inspiration for the book, and exploring fate vs free will.Check out the Pop Fiction Women podcast too!The Astrology House SynopsisMargot needs a minute. She’s been working eighty-hour weeks as a newly minted partner at her law firm. She’s disconnected from her brother, the only family she has left. And she’s still not pregnant after years of trying.Stars Harbor Astrological Retreat promises rest, relaxation, and wisdom for Margot and her friends. With Instagram-worthy views and nightly astrology readings in an impeccably restored waterfront Victorian house, this resort should be the ultimate getaway.For Margot’s brother, Adam, it’s the perfect opportunity to invigorate his romantic life and inspire his writing. But his wife, Aimee, hides the darkness of her past with a beautiful social media feed. Their friend, Farah, is a successful doctor who cannot admit that she’s losing control.Yet no one holds a greater secret than their astrologer host, Rini. She has a plan for her guests, and one of them won’t be leaving Stars Harbor alive.  Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

One easy starting place was the astrologer party that happened on the Beverly Hills Housewives during the pandemic. And I was like, hey, what's an astrologer party? Erica Jane is hosting one at her house. What is happening? What am I going to expect? What's going to happen here? And I was very, very intrigued by that. Of course, I knew what astrology was.

I knew memes. I knew social media, but I didn't know what was going to happen at this party. And the party was excellent, by the way, if you're a housewives fan, it's seared in your memory. I then couldn't stop thinking about, okay, what if it was longer? What if it was more? What else would be going on here? What if they went in privately? I just couldn't stop thinking about it.

This week I got to talk with Corinne Jade, who is the author of the Astrology House, and is also the co-host of the Pop Fiction Women podcast. And if your obsession with Tell Me Lies has been growing as much as mine has, You definitely want to go ahead over and listen to that. But today we're going to be talking about the astrology house, which is a really fun ensemble cast destination thriller that brings in astrology in multiple really cool ways. So here's what it's about. Margo needs a minute. She's been working 80-hour weeks as a newly minted partner at her law firm.

She's disconnected from her brother, the only family she has left, and she's still not pregnant after years of trying. Stars Harbor astrological retreat promises rest, relaxation, and wisdom for Margo and her friends. With Instagram-worthy views and nightly astrology readings in an impeccably restored waterfront, Victorian house, this getaway should be nothing but idyllic fun. For Margot's brother Adam, it's the perfect opportunity to rekindle the romance that fuels his writing, but his wife, Amy, hides the darkness of her past with a beautiful social media feed. Their friend Farah is a successful doctor who cannot admit that she's losing control. But no one holds a greater secret than their astrologer host, Rimi.

She has a plan for all her guests, and one won't be leaving Stars Harbor alive. I loved the pacing of this, and the multiple POVs, they were really developed, so you really got a feel for who was who. And it was just so fun to read. It got me more interested in astrology, too, so there's that benefit as well. But it was so fun talking to Corinne about how she crafted this story, some of the inspiration that came from Real Housewives of Beverly Hills episode. And we also discussed how the examination of free will versus fate shows up in this book and how she also feels it'll show up in every book she reads. So that being said, let's hear from Corinne. I don't know if I even told you this.

I had seen your book cover a lot when it came out, but I hadn't read it yet. And then Chelsea Beaker was on this podcast. So I've been following her ever since I read Mad Woman. And then she was on your guys. So she shared that in her stories. And I was like another fiction girly podcast. Like, yes, please. So I started following you and your friend Kate, who are in that podcast, Pop Fiction,

women. And when I get interested in something, I just have to know all of the information about it. I know that feeling. Yeah. So I ended up on your website. And the reason that you guys started the podcast was amazing. So I know we're here to talk about your book, but could you tell the listeners about how you guys started your podcast? Because I loved it. I love this story too. I just, you know, because it reminds you that like even when you get upset, there's things to get upset about, you know, in the world. And you can use them as fuel to do something else with. So I was listening to a very popular podcast that was run by a handful of men and there was one woman on there. And they were doing a deep dive into Gone Girl. I love, they were doing the adaptation. I love the movie. I love the book. I love all of it. But, They talked for well over two hours, and they really focused on David Fincher's brilliance as the director. They talked about Ben Affleck and his legacy and his growth as an actor, all, like, valid points. But they did not even mention Gillian Flynn once, not once, who wrote the book

and then adapted the screenplay herself. Oscar nominated screenplay, no less. And same with Roseman Pike. she was responsible for bringing Amy to life in a way that I was absolutely blown away by. And they just, it was barely a footnote of like who was against Ben Affle. I was so mad. And I was like, what is, how could they miss so much? And where is this perspective? And I just called up Kate and I said, okay, we have to give our side of things. We have to give another side of things.

And the podcast was born. We were like, let's talk about it from. Let's have something that excludes those more common talking points. Let's talk about our side of things. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So female rage is like a subgenre that we talk about a lot on this podcast.

Yeah. So when I was reading this, I was like, that's why I shared it in my stories too. I was like, everyone needs to know about this because this is like in all of our listeners lane. It's so meta too, right? Because Amy Dunn and Gone Girl is so full of rage. And then me being raged on on behalf of that and then starting this podcast for that reason. Yeah. It's very meta. I love it. Yeah. It is. You're right. There's a whole other level of it where you're like, that's the movie where you weren't going to talk about the females involved. Right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. Well, I love it. And I've been listening to you guys, I guess, for a couple weeks now. But I love your tell me lies take. Oh, my goodness. That show is so good.

Yes. Yes. And it. And it's so cool that it's a female author and a female showrunner. Like, there is just like so, there's so much about it that's cool. So much. Yeah. Yeah, we were talking right before I aired about dog walks. And so you guys have been accompanying me on my dog walks lately. Oh, I love that.

Perfect. Yeah. So if anyone, we did a Tell Me Lies episode, I think three weeks ago. It was two or three weeks ago. So if anyone wants to listen to more Tell Me Lies, you need to go follow pop fiction, women. I mean, everyone needs more tell me lies in their lives. It's crazy. I keep saying to some people because, like, after we did that episode, I had a couple

people DM me and they're like, I just started this. And in the first episode, I was like, I hate this. There's no way I'm going to like this. And they're like, I've just finished like all however many, 13 episodes were out at that point. And they're like, it's just, I can't believe how much I like it. And I always say, like, I really hesitate to call anything a guilty pleasure because it's like, you should feel guilty. Why should you feel guilty about it? Yes. Exactly. But if I was going to say the most guilty pleasure TV show, it's this one. Yeah. Yeah. It's just full of toxic people. No one you want. It's so weird to say like it's something I love. Like I love it because you don't, like I don't want to know those people. I don't want to be those people. But it is so delicious to consume. It is. Thank gosh. That's not my life. Exactly. Exactly. You feel relieved after you watch it for the most part. Yeah, it is.

Look how bonkers they are. Exactly. My stuff isn't that bad. Yeah, you totally feel that way. You're like, thank God I'm not 20 anymore. Just like the other sentiment. Exactly. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Well, I did want to get to know a little bit about you. I mean, we kind of just did too. But in terms of writing. Right. When did you know that you wanted to be a writer? Or like, what was the first thing where you were like, I want to write or I'm going to write something. I love this question.

I think I knew from a very young age, I think probably truly, like early on when I could write, when I loved stories. I was always obsessed with stories. I remember for second grade show and tell, I brought in, like I wrote my own book, which was basically just a rip-off of Shelsterversteen's The Missing Peace, which I was obsessed with. And I just knew I loved stories and I loved writing them and I loved, I don't know, to use that metaphor to feel whole with a story. And so I knew that from a very young age. And then that continued. I was into creative writing. But as I thought about going to college, I thought I have to be practical.

I have to have a real job. I have to, you know, be an adult in the world. And just sitting around making up stories is not being adult. the world. And so I went to law school, which is I majored in political science, preparing me to go to law school, which was the track that I wanted to take. And I lost that drive to create for some time. I was fairly happy. I was pretty good at what I did. I was very good at what I did, and I was pretty happy until I wasn't. And then it was when I had kids that I was like, okay, I don't know, it really brought up. It wasn't just, I mean, it's, it's too simple to say, like, I wanted to live my life as an example for them.

Because I thought I kind of was anyway. But the truth was, I just had this insatiable need to create. And I, at first, I wanted more kids. And my husband was like, absolutely not. He's an only child. He's not used to, like, how loud kids are, how chaotic they are. And I'm pretty chaotic, but I'm an adult as long as he's known me. So I'm pretty self-contained in that way. And so I thought, okay, well, if I can't create that way, then I'm going to write a book. I'm going to create a whole cast of characters. I'm going to create a whole life, a whole world, and then play it all out. So that was when I thought to myself, okay, I'm going to try this again.

I'm going to get back on this band back again. That's really cool. I was wondering when you were saying it. at first if it had anything to do with like creating literal lives yourself and then you're like maybe I can do this with words yeah I mean that was I took it very literally I at first but then when you know he decided he really couldn't handle it and then I wanted a partner who could handle that so it wasn't going to work for me either to just have more kids and right he didn't want that either. So when we decided and we came to that decision, I said, okay, well, maybe I can

take this a little less literally and create life, you know, in a much bigger, but also less consequential way. So yeah, that was when I started writing. Yeah. That is really cool. So how did your writing? Wow. How did your writing process develop? So do you outline, do you pants it? How did that develop for you? What a great question. It's still developing as we speak. I'm working on another book as it is. But I think it developed partially. It started instinctually. I tried to just write like I thought, this is a story I want to write. This is the character I want to write. Let's kind of send her on a journey. But I finished 90,000 words of this first book that I wrote many years ago. And I thought to myself, I have no idea what to do with this.

I really was just like, like stuck my head in the sand and was like, I can't go back to that. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know how to revise. I don't even know what I did. I just kind of wrote stuff. And so I had to then learn a little bit more about the craft. I learned about the three-act structure. And I learned about character drive and motivation and wants and desires and needs, psychological and moral needs.

And so I started to, I kind of worked backwards from there. Once I was sure I could write 90,000 words. I thought I could sit down and do this and I could make this up. And my imagination would kind of kick into gear. Then I kind of backed up, which is probably a theme in my life. I backed up and I was like, okay, let me figure out what I am doing here. I mean, I'm not really an outliner, but I definitely have an idea of what I'm doing. I have ideas for an ending, which doesn't always end up being the ending.

that that's there, but I have to have an idea for it. And then I just kind of fill it in as best I can. Yeah. It's kind of a hybrid approach a little bit. Yeah. Totally. I feel like that makes the more people I talk to, I feel like it does make sense that actually it seems like more people are more hybrids than strictly one way or the other. Yeah. Which I think kind of makes sense the longer. Yeah. The other thing is I use a lot of the tools that that plotters use. but I don't use them in the order they use them in. Like I just, I figured this out that I realized for the book that I got published and the one that I'm writing now, I write, kind of just jump into it.

And then when I'm about 30,000 words in, I go, okay, what is this book about? And I stopped then and I basically kind of try to write the cover copy for the novel. Like if this was a novel right now, what would it look like? what would I talk about being, you know, the drive and how does it all start? And so that helps me go back and revise those first 30,000 words, act one, part one of the book. Yeah. And then kind of get closer to what I'm trying to say and what I want to do and then move on from there. And then I do that again at another stage. So yeah, yeah. That's really cool. I saw a quote and I can't remember who it was from. I saw it last night on Instagram, this of an author who says like, he

likes to approach it. He loves giving, uh, putting characters through a lot of intense stuff for the first hundred pages and then unraveling how that impacted them in the next two. And he was kind of, he was saying the same thing where he was like, I get to know my characters like in that first hundred pages. Then I know what my book's going to be about. And I was like, that actually kind of makes some sense to start it off that way. Yeah. It, it definitely helps me to, figure after I've written a little bit to see what it really is about because I don't know how to decide those things before I felt out like what what I am trying to say here so yeah that's cool I like that yeah yeah so with the characters do you typically kind of get to know them as you're

writing to or do you do any like character sketches at the beginning yeah I do a lot of character work I don't really know what's going to happen to them once I put them on the page but I do a lot of character work before I start. I have to figure out who these people are, what they're struggling with, like what they want, what the obstacles are to them getting it and how, because I write multi-POV, I have to also figure out kind of how these people all work together, how they intersect, how they're connected in their lives, who is blocking, who, who is a different opinion or a different perspective than another person. And then who shares the same perspective. Like, I always try to see who's on whose side and on what topics. So I do a lot of that work. Yeah. So that segues into one of

my other questions really well, actually, with the astrology house. So it has, I can't remember what the exact number is. Does it have five points of view? Five. Five. Yeah. So we have five points of view. And sometimes as a reader, when you're starting a book like that, it's, it can be intimidating because you're like, how am I going to keep these straight? How do I know who's who? But for me, I, it was i was even sitting in a like tire shop lobby starting this book because our car was in the shop and i was still like everyone was so distinct so like their tone in each chapter was so distinct so even that kind of was what helped me remember who i was reading with or whatever yeah so you probably kind of explained some of it but how did you approach like making their tones distinct

from, you know, my answer is probably going to be a little weird. It was weird to me when I realized the way I did it was through their jobs, which is funny because they are away for the weekend. And they're not working. And it's just over a weekend. So they're not doing anything relating to their jobs. But that was how I found their voices. Margot was a lawyer. She's very exact. She's very, you know, argumentative. She's debating, even when it's just in her head. That is her tone of voice. Farah is a doctor. She knows how to take command. She's not like dilly-dallying. She's not hesitating, although that is part of her arc over the course of the novel, in which was what surprises her is the places where she is hesitating. She's like, this is not me.

What's going on here? But that's how I knew her voice. Adam is a writer. He's a romance writer. So he is not seeing anything in the world clearly. He's got those rose-colored glasses on, and he's a little flowery and over the top and bodice-ripping kind of romance, not more true-to-life romance. So I brought all of those aspects. And Rini, she's got a lot of secrets, and she's the outsider.

And so that was, I had a more restrained. And also in the time of her life, she's reflective as this weekend approaches. And so that was easy for me, again, taking their jobs into consideration and how do these people see the world? Yeah, that's a really good point because it's like right when you said it, I was able to, I think I was able to think of everyone's jobs. And like I read it three weeks ago, I think. So it was prominent, especially with Farah, like even when you were talking about her as a job or as a doctor as a job. you do see that and then it is but like the struggle is like where she's not acting like herself in her life which is always really cool as a character arc I like love that which as I'm sure

you know you like want the external plot to be helping their like internal plot and their thoughts and everything so I thought it was cool and the fact that you I say this to everyone who pulls it off But like when multiple points of view can have complete character arcs, that's not an easy feat. And you did do it. Yeah. Well, that was the trick of thank you. But that was the trick of really having their lives and this moment really interconnected. That was really important out of the story.

Because otherwise I wouldn't be able to do it. There's just not enough space. I did leave some open-ended things because I thought, especially big changes, aren't going to happen 100. 100% over the course of one weekend, you know? So I did try to make it a little realistic in that way, but I think you know, I think you should know exactly what's happening the day after the last day of the astrology house, right? Like, you know, there's no confusion about where they're headed, even if they haven't quite gotten there yet. Yeah, I agree. Kind of along the same lines of like the multi-POVs and multiple characters, you did something really cool. So Rini is,

I don't think this gets into spoilers is the host of this event. And then there are all the guests. But basically, she is the astrologer. Is that what you call it? Yes. Okay. So she's the astrologer. And so during, or it might have been before the person's chapter.

Basically, there would be a little vignettes where you basically show the astrology chart and breakdown of each character, which was also such a cool way for us to like get to know the person and kind of. to reinforce like what what their character was like. So how did you come up with that idea? Yeah, that was when that was done a lot more in edits. There was a lot more astrology by the time I was done with the full edit of the book. And I started to keep track of them for myself because some people's signs were changing. But then I also was like, okay, well, they need to be certain in this part of their lives. But I don't, but their birthday needs to have just come like before this. And so there were a lot of logistics that I had to mesh with personality. So that

was why I was like, okay, I need to not only reference their sun signs, but their moon signs and their rising signs too, so that they wouldn't be as obvious personality traits, but I could still include them. So then I started to keep track of them for myself. And then I thought to myself, it is a good way for readers to keep track of them. And wouldn't she have this kind of cheat sheet that would just give her the basics, like run down. And then also for people who aren't into astrology, you have no idea what it means because they have a Gemini Moon, I had other notes that an astrologer might have.

Like, there's a lot of water here. Can she, you know, is she always go with the flow? What's happening? And so I had real life practical notes for these people and what the astrologer anticipated might be their issue over the weekend. That is, that's really cool. Yeah, it's fun. So with the amount of astrology in it, I'm assuming you had to do some research, or did you just, like, know that much going into it?

I think I've been researching this novel, like, my whole life. No, I've been really, I've been into astrology. And when I was younger, it was kind of just the very, which I think was mostly the way people were. It was like reading my horoscope in Cosmo every month. And then it's just become more prevalent. I think there's social media. There's people doing a lot more with them. It's making astrology accessible through funny memes and cute lists.

And so I got more into it that way. And then I found out more about my chart. But so I, by the time I started this book, I knew a lot about astrology. But I did even, I did research more while I was writing it as well. So I had to just make sure I wasn't. I wanted it to be enough that I didn't. didn't want you to have to know anything about astrology to enjoy this book. But if you did know astrology, I did not want to fail people who understood. And I didn't want them to be disappointed with,

well, that doesn't make sense or I don't understand that. But so I had to kind of tow that line. Yeah. I'm very entry level. And just for anyone who's listening, I was definitely still able to follow everything. And it's, I think it's cool learning about other stuff. Like, it's fun when you have something in a book that's like something you don't know everything about, but you kind of get to learn about it while you're entertained by it. So I like that part about it, for sure. Well, thank you. And the other thing I was able to do with that was give it to my, give those traits to my characters, right?

I had people who were desperate to believe everything that the astrologer told them. And then I had people who were going in, like, wait a second. Why should I listen to you? Why should I believe you? Why should I answer any of your questions? and, you know, to different extrades, Reney, the astrologer wants to convince them to listen to her. And so there's a little bit of that dialogue that would feel unnatural anywhere else but in an astrology reading. And so that was really fun too.

Yeah, I bet. What? So you kind of said you feel like you've been researching for your whole life. I assume you kind of mean just because you were interested in astrology that whole time. What was the inspiration for this story? So it's such a great question. It's a question I'm constantly asking myself. Like, what is, when do you know you have a story?

It's not, to me, it's not that clear. One thing for me, I, one easy starting place was the astrologer party that happened on the Beverly Hills Housewives during the pandemic. And I was like, wait, what? What's an astrologer party? Erica Jane is hosting one at her house. What is happening? What am I going to expect? What's going to happen here?

And I was very, very intrigued by that. Of course, I knew what astrology was. I knew memes. I knew social media, but I didn't know what was going to happen at this party. And the party was excellent, by the way, if you're a housewives fan. It's seared in your memory, Beverly Hills. But I then couldn't stop thinking about, okay, what if it was longer? What if it was more?

What else would be going on here? What if they went in privately? Now, on the Housewives, there's nothing's ever private even when they go to confessions. But I had that idea of, I just couldn't stop thinking about it. And then another one of the pieces that came together for me in starting this was talking to an author on our podcast on Popper. fixed women. We ask every author about astrology. And we get answers all over the spectrum. We don't expect anyone coming in to be prepared or know anything. And some people don't even know, they just tell us their birthday. You don't even know their sign at all. Other people know

their big three. They know all their major placements. They know the houses. And then other people just have cool stories, whether it's about a psychic or a tarot reading. And one author told us that she had seen an astrologer who told her when she was going to die. And I was like, stop. Like, record scratch, stop everything. Of course, now, we're just wrapping up an interview. Our time is up. And I'm also kind of just stunned. So I didn't follow up in any way. But I could not stop thinking about that idea. Now, she didn't share anything more, but I thought, oh my gosh. Like, what does that mean? Could that be true? How does that work? Do you believe them? And what does that do to you? How would you process that? And so that was another piece of it that I thought, okay, I can't stop thinking about this. And then the two kind of things came together. Along with also I was reading, it was in the pandemic, I was reading the guest list and leave the world behind. All of these kind of vacation people were leaving their homes and, going somewhere else, which was something we couldn't do at the time and seemed very appealing

to me. So kind of those three elements, I want them to go away, I want them to deal with astrology, and I want someone to have to be, to grapple with, can I believe what this astrologer has told me? Can I believe someone telling me I'm going to die or that I'm going to get divorced or that all of these things are going to happen? Do you believe them? And if so, do you then feed into that fate, or do you actually actively reject it? And is that part of your fate? So those things came together and I was obsessed. Yeah.

When you were, yeah, I saw a clip of you talking about the Beverly Hills astrologer. So I was hoping that that was going to be part of your answer. But even with that, as you were just saying it, it was making me think of how even in those scenarios on reality TV, they're bringing in someone like that. the plot. So it was making me think of how it is such a good, like, tension builder, even for reality TV. Like, it's going to give them things to talk about and, like, question or whatever. Like, it's going to stir some stuff up. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Kind of cool to think how that translated into a thriller kind of in that same way. Like, you're going to, like, get a bunch of people together

and it's going to shake stuff up. Okay. Do you know that that played out on Vanderpump Rules, Allie Louber, had the ladies over and was basically like, Katie and Lala were kind of forced to confront each other about something that had been going on because of the way Allie was describing Lala's communication style. And then it happened on Summer House, Paige, everyone wants to know what's going to happen with Paige and Craig. And she asked the tarot reader, is she going to get engaged to her boyfriend, which I'm sure was a planted question that she had to ask. So yeah, and those all became talking points and like plot. They further the plots of these, even though they're not scripted. It totally is.

I agree. Yeah. That is so cool. I really like that a lot. You kind of through that, though, like you're saying you have some people who are resistant to it, don't want to believe it, just are like not going to believe it no matter what. And in that vein, what I thought was cool is that you also kind of expose. or free will versus fate and also how they technically could not be exclusive to one another,

which I thought, I just thought that was really cool. I'm always intrigued when free will is like a theme or whatever. So did you know you wanted that to be there from the beginning or did you kind of find it as you were writing? Yeah, no, that is definitely something I think maybe always been obsessed with to some extent, but it had even more it had become part of my life. I think from the pandemic, I just, I questioned a lot of things. But also, I had been trying to get published for probably eight years. And I'd been writing on the side before I started to try to get published for longer than that.

And so if it was a matter of just free will and hard work, I would have been published you know, eight years ago. There's no doubt about it. I wanted it. I did the work. I did all the things. And yet I was not getting the opportunity that I wanted. I wasn't getting an agent.

And then even when I got an agent, that book, that first book that I got an agent for did not sell. And then I went back to work. I had another kid. Like it was just like there were so many things that intervened. And I thought if it was just free will, this would have happened a long time ago. And then when I did write this book, it felt faded.

And then when I got my new agent, that felt faded. And when the book sold at auction, it was just like, this is the way it was supposed to be. But what does that even really mean? And yes, none of that would have happened. No one would have bought a book I didn't write. Right. So I had to also participate, but things had to come together that I had no control over, which is very hard for me being a Margot type A kind of person.

Yeah, so I was really wrestling with that and what it meant. And I also had a hard time, like Margot, the character, I had a hard time getting pregnant. That was probably the first time I thought of that. Like why? I'm working hard. I want it badly. Yeah. There's nothing I won't do. And yet it's not up to me. And that was always really hard for me to deal with. And so this was definitely me processing that and i don't think that'll ever leave my books probably not yeah because i'm mine is more um i come from a really religious background is what we'll say um so i think that's why it sticks around with me so much is like sometimes it's more about like guilt about making the wrong choice because i think i've been like entrusted with free will and i better use it

the right way. So there's all kind of stuff that makes me really interested in free will. But I do, I like what the perspective you're saying is as a control freak. That's going to stick around with me for a little while. There are all those parts that you're not in control of. So it's, even as I was reading the book, because there's kind of, I'm trying to say it without spoilers, but there is a little bit of a perspective that like you could have information, but it could come true in like lots of different ways. Oh, yeah. It was kind of a cool thing.

Yeah. Yes, which I also find to be true too. I've read certain things about, you know, even the horoscopes that just even something kind of fluffy, forget about a real reading with a professional astrologer, you think, okay, this sounds right, but the way it can manifest, the way could come true is, has a lot of leeway. There's a lot of room for interpretation, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And there's,

again, I'm hopping around spoilers. But it's in my review. So I think I was able to make it vague enough. But one of the climactic scenes really answers that question with one of the main characters, the different ways something can come true. And I loved that. I love all of that culminates in a story in like a really satisfying like external plot way too i thought that was really good good you know i had to fight for that there was there was some oh really argument whether that was necessary or not i'm like it is for me i just love it yeah yeah i loved it i thought i feel like that closed like the loops that were like questions essentially and made you know free will and fate something that's possible basically yeah together um

Did you have a favorite perspective to write from? Was the one that was more fine? Fun. They were all pretty fun. Margot's was the easiest. She came to me the quickest. I gave her a lot of me being a lawyer, struggling to get pregnant.

But those were all things I had overcome, including being a lawyer now. They got. So I could see it in a way that made it really, easy for me to write her and without feeling like it was too close to me. Rimi ended up being one of my favorites to write because she really alluded me for a long time. I wanted her to stay mysterious. But there was even like, I'm talking even after the book sold, there was just like, she was a little too unknowable. And part of it was sometimes like I don't even know her. So the way

she would, you know, maybe she wouldn't tell you everything about her past, but if I didn't know it, it was not coming through in the right way. And so I had to find out a lot more about her and she did not want to reveal herself to me. And so that was kind of fun in the end to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And then it kind of fits her character too. Right. I knew that it was supposed to, but I was leaning on that a little too much. I'm like, I don't want to know her too much. But then I did get to know her. And I think she was my favorite character. When I was like writing my questions, I was trying to find a question about her because she was my favorite. But I was like, I don't know if I have any questions about her, though.

Yeah. No, she is often, I mean, she sees things the most clearly, although she gets a lot wrong too. But she is that outsider perspective. And I think it's easy to root for that person. You want them to figure things out. And I loved her. I loved her. I just loved her even more.

the end when i want more about her yeah probably it probably works on the level too that we're the outsiders so like the reader probably has the most in common with her so that could have been yeah i don't know i liked her a lot though i really did like her a lot yeah um good well i loved all of it that i feel like that's probably pretty clear i thought it was so cool how it all came together so hopefully everybody goes and reads it or has already read it um i have I've been asking people at the end, and I'm guessing by your bookshelf that you do read. If you have been reading, is there anything you've loved recently? I've loved, I read a lot, a lot.

And I love a lot of books, but I'm now, we're coming closer to the end of the year, so I'm starting to, like, think back on things. Yeah. Rebecca Searle is just a favorite of mine, but her book this year, expiration dates. She's always wrestling with fate versus free will in a, in a relationship manner, not in a thriller way, the way I did here. But expiration dates, I just thought that one was fantastic. And I just think it's interesting that it's, my book is a little bit in conversation with that. She, this woman gets slips of paper that tells her when her relationships

are going to expire. And this is, it's a magical realism element that she has in all of her books. And then she gets a relationship that has a no, it's a blank piece of paper. And so she thinks, okay, this must be the one. And she grapples with interpreting what these papers mean. And so I think that's sort of like in conversation with mine, even though it came out before mine. And then another one is Here One Moment by Leah Moriarty. That one just came out and also feel like it's in conversation. with my book in some way, right?

In that one, there are a bunch of people on a plane and a woman gets up who is clearly not in her right mind at that moment, but you don't know what that means for her, what is happening. And she announces to everyone on the plane when and how they're going to die. And then these people have to go home and grapple with it's not a plane thriller. Don't worry. Everyone thinks does the plane go down? And no, everyone gets off the plane.

deeply, but then they have to grapple with what they've told her. And like, is that real? Should they believe it? Should they not? And some of these people are really facing their time of death soon or they're grappling with how to ignore or how to beat the way they might die. Like, if it's heart disease, they're super exercising. And so I think that that's, again, kind of in conversation with my book. And so, yeah, it is. I've seen a lot of really good reviews for it. I haven't read it i haven't picked it up yet just because of what i have on my neck galley is the true reason why i haven't but yes yes yes that's good reviews i loved it it is getting mixed some mixed reviews but i absolutely loved it i thought it was her best maybe her best book ever and i've read them all so

does it feel like a thriller or is it a little more like contemporary fiction it is more hers so it's 500 pages that's yeah i will tell you that um and her books are so so there's so many characters in all of her books and she's got many points of view but also even within the many points of view she's bringing in people who don't have their own point of view but it's a big huge cast of character so it's never going to be just a page turner that's too deep for that but with that said I for me it was a book I could not put down it was the most thriller book I've read of hers it was like the most like oh because the first part of it is on the plane and you don't what's going to happen will the plane like what will something happen

on the plane and what's going to happen and and what's going to happen after that I just it was very thrillery for her might have lost you for her books yeah yeah yeah the main reason I was asking I know sometimes when things get mixed reviews sometimes people are like this was marketed as a thriller and it's not yeah yeah so that was the main reason I was asking like yeah it has to be a thriller It's hard to it's hard to say though she kind of defies categorization. She does. She does. Deep dive into character but it's like I said it was the most kind of thrillery page

Turner. Yeah. A book of hers that I've ever read. Yeah. It might fall into that like emotional suspense category. I saw that was what that's what Ashley Audraine said about madwoman actually. And now I'm like, oh, that's those are the two words to use. for stuff like that.

I loved Mad Woman. I also loved love letters to a serial killer. Have you read that one? I haven't read it, but I've heard great things. That I recommend for both Mad Woman and Love Letters to a serial killer, don't read anything. Don't know anything going into it. And because I do think love letters, even the back jacket copy, I think gives way too much away. Yeah.

And so just kind of go into a blind if you're interested. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I love both of those, too. I did too. I love, well, I loved Mad Woman. I haven't read the other one yet. Yeah.

But yeah, Mad Woman was powerful. Very powerful. So powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Where can people follow you to stay up to date on everything? Yeah. I'm most active on Instagram.

So it's Corinjade, C-A-R-I-N-J-A-D-E, and Instagram. and Instagram, and then pop fiction women is also where you can keep up to date on what we're covering and authors were interviewing there, but Instagram's the place that I'm, I'm so bad with Facebook and I have not gotten on to TikTok. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. I think most people are on bookstagram. And then there's book talk is fun, but I'm not pushing TikTok on you.

I know. No, look, let me tell you, my publisher already is pushing it on me, so I won't put that on you. But I just, I need to get a grip on promoting a book and writing a book at the same time. And then we'll see, once I get the hang of that, maybe I can branch out. But I'm just good. I'm still active on Instagram. Yeah. Well, I will put the Instagram link in the show notes for everyone. And thank you so much for talking with me today. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.