Bookwild - Danielle Trussoni's The Puzzle Box: Savant Syndrome, Puzzle Masters and a Japanese Puzzle Box

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

This week, I talk with Danielle Trussoni about her new installment in The Puzzle Series, The Puzzle Box!  We dive into how she created this genre-mashup of a series, what piqued her interest in puzzles, and the puzzle masters she works with for her books.The Puzzle Box SynopsisIt is the Year of the Wood Dragon, and the ingenious Mike Brink has been invited to Tokyo, Japan, to open the legendary Dragon Box.The box was constructed during one of Japan’s most tumultuous periods, when the samurai class was disbanded and the shogun lost power. In this moment of crisis, Emperor Meiji locked a priceless Imperial secret in the Dragon Box. Only two people knew how to open the box—Meiji and the box’s sadistic constructor—and both died without telling a soul what was inside or how to open it.Every twelve years since then, in the Year of the Dragon, the Imperial family holds a clandestine contest to open the box. It is devilishly difficult, filled with tricks, booby traps, poisons, and mind-bending twists. Every puzzle master who has attempted to open it has died in the process.But Brink is not just any puzzle master. He may be the only person alive who can crack it. His determination is matched only by that of two sisters, descendants of an illustrious samurai clan, who will stop at nothing to claim the treasure.Brink’s quest launches him on a breakneck adventure across Japan, from the Imperial Palace in Tokyo to the pristine forests of Hakone to an ancient cave in Kyushu. In the process, he discovers the power of Meiji’s hidden treasure, and—more crucially—the true nature of his extraordinary talent.  Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

What's the difference between a chemical reaction in my body and an emotional one that's me? And I think that, you know, I've seen a lot of people in my life that I know they're faced with that question. Would I medicate and be, you know, normal, whatever, or like not have these things? Or do I accept the particularity of my wiring and my body and be who I am? And is that just physical or is there an element about that that's higher, you know, higher or more mystical element? You know, is it a connection to the universe or to as some people might think God or reality, right? We don't know. And so all of these questions, I think, are essential basic human questions that all of us feel, even if we don't articulate it.

So exploring that dichotomy through Mike Brink has been really interesting for me as a writer. This week I got to talk with Danielle Trusone, who is the author of The Puzzle Series with Mike Brink. And today we're talking about her book, The Puzzle Box, which is this wonderful genre mashup of thriller, adventure, horror, kind of like history as well. We get into the way that she masters up genres, so just look forward to that. It is a very fast-paced multi-POV book with a deadly puzzle at its center.

So here's what it's exactly about. It is the year of the wood dragon and the ingenious Mike Brink has been invited to Tokyo, Japan, to open the legendary dragon box, a mysterious 19th century puzzle that has remained unsolved for over 150 years. The box was constructed during one of Japan's most tumultuous periods when the samurai class was disbanded and the Shogun lost power. In this moment of national crisis, Emperor Meiji placed a priceless imperial secret in the dragon box, locked it, and hid it in a temple far from the palace. Only two people know how to open the box. Meiji and the box's sadistic constructor, Ogawa. Both died without telling a soul what was inside or how to open it. Since then, the imperial family has held a clandestine contest to open the box

every 12 years in the year of the dragon. The dragon box is devilishly difficult, filled with tricks, booby traps, poisons, and mind-bending twists. Every puzzle master who has attempted to open it has died in the process. But Brink is not any puzzle master. With his uncanny abilities, he may be the only person alive who can crack it. Yet his determination is echoed by a radical group, headed by two sisters descended from an illustrious but disgraced samurai clan, who have vowed to claim Meiji's secret. They know that the box's contents have the power to change the fate of Japan and the world. When they align with Brink's arch rival, Jameson Sedge, Brink is up against the most dangerous challenge of his life. This is non-stop, fast-paced, so fun, full of puzzles, and definitely

a genre mashup. As I mentioned, Danielle and I really talk about genre mashup and in some ways how to her like good stories are just good stories. So I'm really excited for you guys to hear about the research she did for this, how she got into puzzles, how she created a character with savant syndrome, and the wonderful Japanese history that's included in this installation of the puzzle series. So that being said, let's get into it with Danielle. So I am so excited to talk about the puzzle box.

But first, I did want to get to know a little. bit more about you. So when did you know that you wanted to be a writer or when did you have like a book idea? So those are those are kind of all wrapped up in my childhood actually. I wanted to be a writer but I didn't really know what that meant. I wanted to write stories from a pretty young age. And I, you know, it was one of those kids that you would see sitting in the corner of a library with like a stack of books, all of them very different. Like there was not one style or genre that I liked. I just read everything. But my first book actually was a memoir about my relationship with my dad. And so while I wanted to write fiction and be a writer from,

from a very young age, I ended up writing, my first book ended up being nonfiction, a memoir. And interestingly enough, or tragically enough, my dad died the same month that the book was published. And when, yeah, it was, it was very uncanny because I had spent about 10 years collecting information and interviewing him. And I went to Vietnam. The book is about, my dad was a a tunnel rat in the Vietnam War. So I had gone to Vietnam to experience what he had experienced, and then I wrote about that in my childhood with him. And when he died, his picture was on the cover of the New York Times Book Review, right? The same weekend in his obituary appeared in our very small town local newspaper. So it was just wild. Like it was just this explosion of events, right?

Like the reason that I was that I kind of taught myself how to write was to tell that story. But once that story came out, I was in a different place, right? My career began essentially. And I needed to go in a different direction, I guess. But anyway, when after he died, he had left a box of things of mine that he had collected over the years. And there was a small mead notebook, you know, those little ones that you would like make a growth. list in. Oh, yeah. It was full of like observations and little scenes and little snippets of things that I had written

when I was like 13. And some of those things were in the book that had been just published. So clearly I was collecting information to write from a very, very young age. But I think that for all those people who are interested in writing, the experiences we have, you don't know how they're going to coalesce and come to be and what form they'll take. I had never imagined, obviously, when I was 12 or 13, jotting those things down, that those would be a book. So I guess that's, you know, that's how I started writing. And then after that point, I mean, I had always known I wanted to write fiction.

And after that point, I started writing novels. Nice. That is so many coincidences. That's crazy. I know. Yeah. I saw that you were or are a journalist as well. Did that inform your fiction writing? Well, so I'm not really a journalist journalist. I have been a book reviewer. So I was a columnist at the New York Times, but it was a book. It was a book column. Oh, nice. Yeah, nice. Very fun, right? You get like a bunch of books every month, and then you decide. which books you want to put in the column, which books you like.

So I was doing that, but I am very interested in nonfiction, if that's the heart of the question. My degree in college was in literature and history, and my first book was very researched, the book about Vietnam. And so I am very interested in research, as you probably saw, reading the puzzle box. There's lots of lore and mythology and history, woven into my fiction. Yeah. That was going to be another one of my questions because with the puzzle series in general,

there's like elements of like adventure, horror. There's some thriller elements, but there's also history. Like you're learning about history as well. Is there something that like draws you to doing that kind of genre mashup? Or is it just kind of like you were saying like you've always read, lots of genres and are you just kind of interested in things across the board? Yeah, I think I came about writing in a different way than a lot of people. Like I think some people say I like romance. So I'm going to write a romance book, right? I'm going to write in that genre. I came to it from I love

story and also I like complicated. I tend to like complicated stories. And that's probably because my first book, you know, I don't know what came first the chicken or the egg, but my first book was really an excavation of like who my dad was because of his history. And so I had a historical element and a present day element. And that form kind of stayed with me in the fiction as well. And I really like stories that have complex backstories and historical elements and lots of lots of things that you wouldn't expect that are not quite genre. Yeah. In one genre.

So I guess, you know, it's funny because I get classified now all over the place in a bookstore. You'll find me literary fiction. You know, my book was featured in People magazine this week under literary fiction, which I was like, oh, cool. Yeah. All right. I'll take that. But and then we'll see it also, especially with the puzzle books as thrillers, because these are much more in the thriller space.

And I consciously tried to put them there because people kept saying, well, where the heck are you? What are you, what genre are you writing in? Right. But really, you know, I feel like these genre distinctions are not really storytelling, right? And people like a good story, a good book, whether it's sort of a thriller with historical elements

or romance with fantasy elements. Like people just want to have, have a great time when they're reading. And however you get there, for me, that's the important thing. It doesn't matter as long as it's fun. Yeah. I think of that sometimes, too, from a reading perspective. Because, like, as a reader who, like, recommends books to other people, like, it helps

to have the genre words just to, like, have a discussion about the book. Totally. But it's like, I feel like more and more books that I'm talking about, I'm like, well, it's a thriller, but it's also this or something like that. So it's like it kind of just like helps you start talking about a book. But I do think it's really cool when like multiple things come together in one story. Yeah, I do too. And those are the books I like to read.

Right. You know. Yeah. Yeah. How so you must do, it sounds like you do a lot of research. So for your writing process, what does that look like? Do you like have to outline pretty heavily so you can know what to research or how do you approach it? Well, I usually start with the research first and to see what I have.

And then generally speaking, I don't do like a chapter by chapter outline. Like some people, I do kind of like a three-act structure. Like I know what's going to happen in the first third of the book and then I know what's going to happen in the middle. And then I know what's going to happen at the end. And then I, as I'm writing, I'm researching. So I'm layering it all in kind of at the same time. Yeah, that makes sense. What about with characters?

Do you get to know them as you're writing or did you like try to know Mike Brink before you started writing him? So that's a great question because Mike Brink came about in kind of one of those strange ways that characters do. He just showed up. I was writing originally the Puzzle Master was more about Jess Price, the female character who's the prisoner. She's in prison because she's been accused of murdering her boyfriend. She hasn't spoken about what's happened, but she draws a mysterious cipher. And that's what brings Mike Brink into the story because he's the puzzle master. He's in a genius puzzle solver. And so they believe that if he can solve it,

they can figure out what happened. Well, when I brought that character in, he just completely took over. Like I was like, oh, this is an amazing character. I really love this character. And so I kind of put everything on hold and went back and did a lot of research about him and puzzle solving puzzle masters about savant syndrome, which is the disorder he suffers from that allows him to have the sort of almost miraculous ability to solve puzzles. And then I took out, there was a lot of that book that I took out and set aside because I wanted to make Mike Brink the main character. That is wild that you have like a series about a whole character and it wasn't like him that was the first idea. That is that is so cool. That's kind of magical. I like hearing.

Yeah, it is magic about writing, right? Things will come in that are clearly in the ether or in your subconscious and they're there, but you don't realize it. And so, you know, that process of writing, I write every draft, first draft by hand. Wow. So, yeah, so it's very labor intensive and it's very much a connection with my body and my mind. And I have, you know, stacks and stacks of, I write on, I can just show you, since we're on video, I write on, knocking things over here, these yellow legal pads like this.

Nice. Yeah, so I have like stacks and stacks of those. And then the second draft is typing it into a word document or inscrivener. And in that process, I discover a lot. I discover a lot about the book. That's really cool. You are, I talked with John Fram a couple months ago. And he said the same thing.

So I have like had two people now say that like the first draft has to be handwritten. Like that's what works for them. So that's really cool. I like that that's what works. And I do remember like when we were in therapy, that was why we would have to handwrite stuff. What you were saying with like more of the mind-body connection, like getting you in that space. So that's cool.

I'm like, I'm so devoted to typing, but I love the idea of it. Well, I am too. I could never finish a book that way. But for me, it looks something. And I think it might be because as, you know, I said earlier, my first attempts at writing We're in notebooks and with a pen. And so it just feels, it feels emotionally right to be doing it that way. You know, who knows if people will do that in the future.

Probably not. They'll be like, you know, dictating to Siri. That's like I talked to Alex Finley a while ago. And that's how he said he does most of his first draft is on my dogs are behind me, on WALKs with his dogs and he dictates into his phone. That's how he does his whole first draft. draft. Oh my God. I'm seeing Alex next week. I'll have to ask him about that. Yeah. Yeah, that was I talked to him about. I think that was the night shift that we were talking about when he mentioned that. But yeah,

I love his stuff. And the other thing that's been cool about this podcast is it's like also been like a reminder to me or something like that that there is like not one way to write a book. And it's not even that they're like three ways to write a book. There's like hundreds of ways to write a book. Yeah, it's such a hard process that whatever way you can get it done, right? Like if you're writing on napkins or you're dictating into your phone, if you've got like a hundred notes everywhere. I also have a whiteboard, you know, I have a ton of stuff that goes into, that I just sort of throw my ideas at. And then the process of making it into a cohesive story is really where the art comes in and the discipline. and I'm at my desk every day from 8 to noon at least.

And, you know, that's the thing that is the difference between just throwing ideas out there and actually shaping it into something. Yeah, totally. So you mentioned that it wasn't necessarily the plan for Mike to be the main character in this first one. But now it's very much what the series is based around in his savant syndrome as well. So did was that something like was he always going to have that in the first one even though you kind of thought you were more focused on the other character? And then what was the research like for creating a character with that? So he was at first when I first, when he first kind of stepped in, he was just a great puzzle solver. Right. I didn't have him be the kind of insane genius that he ended up being. But then I started doing research about, um, savants and I came across lots of material about savant syndrome and that was utterly fascinating so for people who don't know what that is it's when someone has a traumatic brain injury or has some sort of injury in their brain and the brain reacts but

with a kind of hyperplasticity and people can develop an very specialized skill so So people with Savant syndrome have had, you know, they've found themselves with the ability to learn languages very fast, like becoming fluent in a language that they've never spoken a word of in a week and that kind of skill. And so when I just, when I started reading about this, I was like, what does this say about our brain? Yeah. You know, it took me really on kind of a wild ride into like me thinking about how

you know, consciousness and how we think and how we see the world and that, you know, someone right standing next to us is seeing everything totally differently than we are. So anyway, that became a bigger part of it. And, you know, I went through a few drafts before I really solidified him and his skills and his vulnerabilities. Because what's interesting to him about him to me as a writer is that he's not Superman, right? He has this ability, but he's very, there's a big price and he's really damaged. And his struggle is really about how to overcome that damage and be happy with this skill. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Book Wild.

And if you are, could I ask you a favor? Could you go and rate and review this podcast and whatever platform you're listening? Ratings and reviews make the biggest difference in discoverability of the podcast. And I definitely want to find all of our fellow thrill. readers out there. So if you could go rate the podcast and leave a short review, that would make a huge difference. Thank you. And let's get back to the show. Yeah. That's what it was interesting about it to me too, because like neuroplasticity is such a, it's, I mentioned therapy before. There's something that we would talk about in therapy because it's like when you have destructive or traumatic,

why can't I think of it in your brain, like connections or whatever neural connections in your brain. it's hard to rewrite them, but we actually can because of neuroplasticity. So the hyperplasticity is so fascinating to me because you can change so much of your brain differently than other people. So I agree it appeals to me in a really similar way. But especially in this second book, there's kind of like a battle for Mike internally as well because he's had his doctor who believes it's a very scientific thing that happened to him. And it probably is. Like that that is there. He did have an injury. But he also has this other side of himself and his other friend who kind of thinks of it more mystically or like he was kind of given something beneficial. And so he's really also

dealing with like or battling with the idea that like he's kind of seeks out thrills and challenges because of what happened to his brain. And like, like, would he want to give that up? And is it all scientific or is it magical? And I feel like, I feel like even if you don't have savant syndrome, sometimes you're thinking about these things about yourself. Like, what's scientific? What's like my soul or kind of like all of that? So how did you, or like, what made you want to kind of explore that struggle through Mike? That's such a good question. I think it's something that I've thought about my whole life, right? Like what's the difference between a chemical reaction in my body and an emotional one that's me.

And so I think we all feel that, right, especially as we learn more and more about the brain and people can take medication or not take medication to alter moods or behaviors or anxiety or whatever it is. And I think that, you know, I've seen a lot of people in my life that I know they're faced with that question. And would I medicate and be, you know, normal, whatever, or like, not have these things? Or do I accept the particularity of my wiring and my body and be who I am? And is that just physical or is there an element about that that's higher, you know, higher or more mystical element?

You know, is it a connection to the universe or to, as some people might think God? or reality, right? We don't know. And so all of these questions, I think, are essential basic human questions that all of us feel, even if we don't articulate it. So exploring that dichotomy through my brink

has been really interesting for me as a writer. And also being able to marry those sort of larger existential questions with something that's just fast-paced, and fun, has been a real joy for me as a writer. My other books have tended to go on either side of that. And it's nice to have both. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. I agree a lot with what you're saying, because there are some big, heavier existential questions like you're saying, that it's like they're all kind of in the back of our mind sometimes where they pop up, but it is fun to explore it through entertainment. It's kind of like an easier, more approachable way

to kind of think about it sometimes. Totally. And also, you know, history and, you know, other questions about reality. So I think that fiction, you know, people sometimes ask what's the purpose of fiction. And for me, fiction is a vehicle for all those things, right? Like interacting with our world, meeting, having connections with characters and being on this sort of interiority of these characters and like learning from them and connecting to them. And also, you know, being entertained and having a little bit of an escape from what I think, you know, right now is a really tense moment in the world.

And being able to sort of slip into another reality for a little while is a lot of fun. And there's a lot of use in that, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I like to talk about that because I love that your empathy can be broadened through reading because especially what you were bringing up. Like it can with movies as well for sure. but the interiority that we get with books is so different the way that you can really feel like you're experiencing someone else's experience like it's as close as we're going to get to experiencing

someone else's experience for the most part i do love that me too that's why i write as opposed to you know do writing screenplays or something yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense you mentioned um history as well that was what i didn't maybe i did say it earlier too you really incorporate history into your stories as well. And with this one, it takes place in Japan. And I know you lived there for a little while. So how did you decide you were going to place it in Japan? And did you kind of want to from the beginning since you'd been there?

So I lived there like 20 years ago. It was a while ago. Oh, wow. All that time, I've wanted to write something said in Japan. I just didn't have the right elements to do it. I mean, you can't really set a story in a country for no reason. You have a lot of elements that make sense for it to be set there. And so after I wrote The Puzzlemaster, and I was thinking about what would be a good follow-up,

the idea of a puzzle box. Like, I love, I actually have one here. I think I can get it in the screen. Oh, that is so cool. This is a Japanese puzzle box that I brought back from Japan. And if you can see here, the piece moves just slightly. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Well, this one opens with 21 moves, tiny, tiny little moves like that. And I had seen, the first thing we saw a puzzle box was when I lived in Japan, and I was really intrigued. Yeah. And I wanted to know more about what they were. And I liked the idea of a mechanical puzzle, you know, for Mike Brink. He's got a lot going on in his head, but it's very cool and tactile for him to be opening a box. And so that was really attractive to me to get him out of his head, get him physically doing something. And then there were a lot of elements of Japanese history that I've always wanted to know more about,

one of them being the history of female samurai, which is a very, a very, very, very, I haven't seen much about that in anything. It was new to me. Yeah. And it's very, you know, it's a small element of Japanese history, right? But it's something that I would go to museums or I would go to see castles in Japan, and there would be a minute of a lot about the samurai. And then the tiny little thing about like this one woman who defended the castle when the men were off fighting.

And I was like, oh, this is amazing. So I wanted to know more about that. And so all of those, you know, these impulses came together, were able to come together around Mike Brink in the puzzle box. So I feel, you know, really that's the sort of, as you chose the word earlier, magic, that's the magic of writing is sometimes all these interests can just sort of collect around one idea. And they happen with the puzzle box. Yeah. So is that also then probably like the initial inspiration for the book was like, like this would be the type of puzzle that Mike would be solving. Yeah, the real inspiration.

Like, so after I wrote the puzzle master, I wrote out a summary of this new book, beginning to end, like, and I knew what would happen because I could structure it all around the puzzle box and Mike's abilities. You know, the other elements, the sort of other characters that you meet and the backstories that come in,

those things emerged out of that. but yeah, really it was all the puzzle box. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So obviously this is the second book related to puzzles. Have you always been interested in puzzles in general? Not really. I think, you know, I think writing is a big puzzle for me. And I see it as I love, but I'll take a step.

I love jigsawes. I absolutely love word all. And I like crosswords. You know, those kinds of puzzles, word puzzles, or, you know, jigsaw puzzles, I just relax when I do them, right? Like, I really like to just check out mentally and just, like, have something very visual. But I'm not someone who is a puzzle savant. I'm not great at puzzles. I actually have to work with puzzle, real puzzle geniuses to make the puzzles that are in the books.

Because, as you know, I actually put some puzzles in the books. There's a crossword and a tanngram. in this one and some word puzzles and that's really fun to work with people who this is what they do. For me, it's a subject in my book like any other one, right? Yeah. I was writing the book. I wrote a book called Angelology about 10 years ago, and I became immersed in the lore around angels. You know, I didn't particularly have an obsession with angels, but that was the book.

book's theme and subject, and so I got really into it. And the same with this. Yeah, that's really cool. So I was going to ask about that, too, was like the whole constructing of puzzles. So do you kind of, like, write a certain amount and then talk to a puzzle maker and like, what is that input like? Are you ever kind of telling them like, this is where it's happening? So I need something kind of like this, or do you build the puzzles before you write the book? Like, how do you do that part? No, you were exactly right, the first thing you said. So I have the story and sort of I'm writing and I'm like, this point right here, there's a challenge.

We need something. And this is what it has to do, right? So for example, in the puzzle box, I'm going to show it. Oh, it's so pretty. There's the, I think you remember, there's the chrysanthemum puzzle. It looks, so it looks like, get this on the camera here, like that. He receives this puzzle and then he opens it up and it looks and it turns into a crossword. Yes.

And I knew that this particular puzzle was a kind of invitation for Mike Brink to go to Japan and open the puzzle box. And so I talk to, I work with two puzzle constructors. One is named Brendan Emmett Quigley and the other one is Huawei Wong. And Brendan is the word guy. He does crosswords, brilliant crosswords, custom crosswords. If anyone out there wants one, you should get in touch with Brendan, Emmett Quigley. But so I'll tell him like, this is what it has to do. And he comes back with a puzzle, like a crossword for me.

And I'm always so impressed, but he's just a genius because he does it in like a day and no big deal. Here you go. It would take me probably as long as it took to write the book to do that. And then, you know, the other puzzle constructor is more of, he's also incredible. He's a four-time world puzzle champion just to give you the background on him. But he does more number puzzles for me. So he did the tangram. He did number the square.

He does, he's just totally incredible too. But anyway, so I work with him and they've, they've helped a lot. And with the puzzle box in particular, there's an American puzzle box constructor named Kagan Sound who makes elaborate puzzle boxes. So I did an interview with him to sort of figure out how, how they work. Like they physically are jointed, stuff like that. And that really helped in making sort of a believable. puzzle box for this book for this book yeah that's that's really cool i don't i don't know if i've talked about this on the podcast so it might just be me but growing up i was really into nancy drew made like computer

games and it was like that you would like solve a mystery but very commonly like you would have to solve a puzzle to like get into something so it was also reminding me of my experience of playing those games where like all of a sudden it's like okay i know all of this but like now i need to solve this. It does just make it differently fun. I didn't know about that there was a video game like that. I love hearing that because people sort of, you know, say people don't, you know, the puzzles in storytelling have been happening since Greek tragedies. Yeah. Right. You know, like solve the riddle and then you get, you know, to go into this cave or whatever. And, you know, this is such like an elemental part of storytelling, but in so many interviews, people don't have a, a context.

And they're like, oh, you know, this is just such a new or different thing or it's Dan Brown or it's this. And like, actually, you know, this is a really elemental part of storytelling and part of our culture. And it goes back way, you know, thousands of years. Yeah. Yeah, it is really cool in story selling. It's, um, and for anyone who's like, all of a.

sudden wants to play them. I've been seeing on TikTok, they still are making new games. Like, they were making these back like 15 years ago or 20 years ago. But her interactive has, they're still putting out new ones. So if you're wanting to play a mystery game. Yeah, that has puzzles. Yeah, her interactive. It's Nancy Drew like detective games essentially. Okay. I'm going to find out. But yeah, they're, they're very fun. So some of you might, some of you might enjoy it every now and then I think I downloaded some when I was in college too because I was like this would be fun when I just need to like chill out so maybe I'm about to play them again maybe I'm going to discover them now yeah well um I obviously loved reading it brought me

back to my childhood a little bit with the Nancy Drew games too so I'm excited for everyone else to read it if they haven't yet as they're listening to this but I haven't asked asking authors at the end if they've read anything recently that they liked. So I don't know if you read while you write, have you read anything that you've loved? So I have read, I do read, so I used to be a columnist for the New York Times Book Review, and I would have to read while I write, right?

So I would be reading a lot of sort of horror and suspense novels. And lately I have been kind of going back and reading classics, that I missed. Oh, yeah. So I've been reading a lot of Agatha Christie. Nice. And I recently have read, did you ever see the film, the movie, to Catch a Thief with Carrie Grant and Grace Kelly?

It's like a 1950s. Oh, no. I haven't. Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah. So good. So recently, Poison Pen Press has reissued the novel that that's based on that was published in the 50s.

And I got to. a whole of a copy and I read that and it was just so good. So good. Yeah. And it's what's great about it is that the thief, the cat burglar is a trained acrobat. Right. So there's all of this stuff about training in the circus and and the kinds of feats that this person has to go through to like flip up onto a roof and like slide into a window. And it's, you know, It's kind of fun because, you know, I have a six-year-old and she watches miraculous. I don't know if you know that cartoon on Netflix, but it's like about it basically these people who, you know, can flip around and slip into windows and stuff.

And it's fun to see that so much of our of that, right, comes from, you know, a book written like 60 years ago. Yeah, it is always cool because it's like even when you're mentioning with Agatha Christie, like, I can't remember which one it was, but there was even another one of her books was turned into a movie last year that we went to see. And I was like, there are, you can see all of the, some of the things that we still love in like mysteries and thrillers. And it's like they were just kind of like laying the groundwork then, but it is cool seeing how much is still similar with older stories, I guess is what you call it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, those are the books that really

created these genres. So, and I hadn't, you know, really read them before. I hadn't read a lot of them before. So I'm going back and doing some of that, that reading. Yeah. That is so cool. You're inspiring me too. Where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything? So I'm mostly on Instagram these days, but I am on Facebook too. And I have a newsletter that I send out every, you know, once a month or so. And if people want to be, um, to be, more in contact with me, they should go to my website and just sign up for my newsletter. But I love to hear from people. So if anyone out there is reading the book and wants to let me know what they think, please get in touch. Yeah. Yeah. I will put the links for all of that in the show notes. And

otherwise, thanks so much for talking with me about it today. Thanks, Kate. It was so much fun.