Bookwild - Did You Hear About Kitty Karr by Crystal Smith Paul: Fame, Colorism and Generational Trauma

Episode Date: July 18, 2023

This week, I talk with Crystal Smith Paul about her stunning debut novel Did You Hear About Kitty Karr?  We discuss the pitfalls of fame, the demands for transparency and the allure of Hollywood, as well as how Crystal's time as a journalist and in film school affected the writing process of her first book.  Follow Crystal on Instagram or check out her websiteDid You Hear About Kitty Karr SynopsisWhen Kitty Karr Tate, a White icon of the silver screen, dies and bequeaths her multimillion-dollar estate to the St. John sisters, three young, wealthy Black women, it prompts questions. Lots of questions.A celebrity in her own right, Elise St. John would rather focus on sorting out Kitty’s affairs than deal with the press. But what she discovers in one of Kitty’s journals rocks her world harder than any other brewing scandal could—and between a cheating fiancé and the fallout from a controversial social media post, there are plenty.The truth behind Kitty's ascent to stardom from her beginnings in the segregated South threatens to expose a web of unexpected family ties, debts owed, and debatable crimes that could, with one pull, unravel the all-American fabric of the St. John sisters and those closest to them.As Elise digs deeper into Kitty's past, she must also turn the lens upon herself, confronting the gifts and burdens of her own choices and the power that the secrets of the dead hold over the living. Did You Hear About Kitty Karr? is a sprawling page-turner set against the backdrop of the Hollywood machine, an insightful and nuanced look at the inheritances of family, race, and gender—and the choices some women make to break free of them. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hey, book talkers, books to grammars, and bookworms. Welcome to Between the Lines, a podcast where I go between the lines of some of my favorite books with the authors who wrote them. I was seriously so excited to sit down and talk with Crystal Smith-Paul about her debut novel, Did You Hear About Kitty Car, which I know is going to be in my top five for 2023. It was not only a Reese's book club pick, it was also a book of the month pick. But if you haven't heard about it, here's the synopsis. When Kitty Car Tate, a white icon of the silver screen, dies and bequeathes her multi-million

estate to the St. John's sisters, three young, wealthy black women, it prompts questions, lots of questions. A celebrity in her own right, Elise St. John would rather focus on sorting out Kitty's affairs than deal with the press. But what she discovers in one of Kitty's journals rocks her world harder than any other brewing scandal could. And between a cheating fiancé and the fallout from a controversial social media post, there are plenty. The truth behind Kitty's assent to stardom from her beginnings in the segregated South threatens to expose a web of unexpected family ties, debts owed, and debatable

crimes that could, with one pull unravel the all-American fabric of the St. John's sisters and those closest to them. This book was so thought-provoking in multiple levels. It takes place across multiple generations and with that timeline is able to highlight things that were prevalent in the past and how they have affected our present. So enjoy this conversation with Crystal Smith Paul. So I wanted to get to know you a little bit before we dive into the book. So did you, you've, you've written, it looks like as a journalist, you've written nonfiction. So it seems like I know the answer to the question, but did you always know that you wanted to be a right? writer. I did. I think I always wanted to write fiction. It just took me a long time to get to this

point. Like, writing fiction just seems so daunting. But it's always been my dream since I was a little girl. Yeah. I've always loved to read. So, yeah, I've always loved to read. Like, I devoured books when I was little. And I was like, it was always my dream to be able to do that. You kind of mentioning that, I saw that you went to film school as well and journalism as well. So do you feel like doing both of those things influenced, like, the first book that you wrote, basically, do you feel like it influenced Kitty Carr? Absolutely. It's funny because definitely I have dabbled in a lot of different types of writing,

but I think that it gave me like a really, like wide lens on perspectives in writing. Like definitely the journalism comes through like when I talk about celebrity and just kind of the lens, you know, on celebrity that I try to put on the characters. And then also obviously film school is all wrapped up into Kitty's trajectory.

You know, that's the basis of the book. So definitely that influence is all through there. Yeah. Yeah. And so with kind of both of those things, when you went to write a novel, what, like, how did you approach it process-wise? So did you, like, plot it out? Was there something you even, like, learned somewhere along the way that, like, influenced your process? Or are you a pancer who can just write things? I think my, it changes, to be honest. Like, in my early days of, like, just trying to write. a novel. I was really teaching myself. So truthfully, it was like a lot of like heavy dialogue and it probably looked on the page more like a screenplay truthfully. And then I would kind of like work backwards. So I was just trying to get the rhythm of like actually like, you know, combining scenes in that way.

But I think in pictures. So my early days of novel writing were very more like a screenplay truthfully. And as Kitty Carr, like as the idea developed and the characters developed, and I really knew what I was writing, to be honest, I started plotting. Big plotter is what I learned, especially for this book. I mean, it's, you know. That's exactly what I was going to say, because it is like massively multigenerational. Like you spend so many years and you're connected to so many people, like so many different places in their lives. So I was like, if I were trying to write something like that, I feel like I would have to like at least have some amount of structure to even get started with something. Oh, absolutely. It's like a map for me.

Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Especially if you see things so visually. So one of the things that I really loved about it is I don't typically read tons of what would be maybe called historical fiction. but I loved that this kind of incorporated like early Hollywood, the civil rights movement, colorism and present day Hollywood, like all of it together. And then still in a story that kind of like feels a little bit suspenseful and that like you can't tell how things are going to be navigated. So was like,

was there one of those things that like came to you at first? Or did you or like did your experiences with stuff kind of like shape it as you wrote it. That's a really good question. I think it kind of was shaped as it was being written. Like there was elements of the plot that definitely were set in stone.

But as I started writing, the characters truthfully started doing what they wanted to do. Like sometimes I'd have like, okay, this is what's going to happen next. And after writing the scene, whatever the character said, it would kind of lead me in a different direction.

So a lot of times it was like fumbling around in the dark. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much like that I liked that there was so much to think about in so many different realms. While like also it still felt kind of fast paced in general for like what was happening. But like it was cool just like seeing things through multiple different lenses kind of. And it also kind of reminded me back to. film school and journalism.

It also reminded me so much of a movie in that like it spans that much time. So kind of like how nonfiction also like spans like someone's whole life sometimes. It felt like both of those things were going on as well. But the other thing I've realized about myself is I am just really into Hollywood stories. Like that's what I've learned about myself in the last year. And so it feels like. you have probably been interested in it for a while as well, maybe. So what do you think is so fascinating about Hollywood?

Oh, man. I would even expand it a little bit and just say celebrity. I think it's interesting the position of celebrity and how marketing kind of revolves around that lens and how, yeah, basically how we're all marketed to that. way in terms of what celebrities are doing and what they're eating and, you know, all of that. And I just think that that position from a sense of power is what appeals to me. It's just interesting. Like, it's a microcosm of the larger world, right? And so those are the things that I'm really interested. But Hollywood specifically, it's, you know, a beautiful, creative art form. And I am into art. So in general, I mean, I think movies have the, you know, stories in general,

have the capacity to transport us anywhere in the world and give us greater empathy of each other. And I thought, you know, this film lens in light of everything else, like with passing and racial inequality that's going on in the book, it was a really interesting landscape between fantasy and reality. Yeah. Yeah. I very much agree with that as like how I experienced reading it as well. Wonderful. I love that. Yeah. And you, mentioned pop culture too which i've read on your in your bio too that you're totally into it which is the same thing that i'm learning but do you think like some of the interest and some of the work you've done in like the pop culture spaces like also kind of influenced how you built the story

especially the present day part of the story absolutely i mean because i think it's the empathy part right like working in journalism i mean i think it would have been um very interesting to work in entertainment journalism and I did like for a very like very small time but I also yeah I developed more like empathy for celebrities truthfully just seeing you know like how their lives are like you know plastered everywhere and it can be really unfair and when I came out of grad school social media was not really it wasn't what it was today I mean we had Facebook and that was huge but the whole gamut of social media it wasn't what it was today. And I, I don't know, I think I began to value my own privacy, but then also the privacy of others, right? Like, I've always been into that. Like, Whitney Houston

was one of my favorite, she is one of my favorite celebrities. And I didn't like, you know, the way her troubles were kind of plastered everywhere and made fun of. So I think about things like that and I definitely think that that came to play in this book, but also the way that I wrote the present day, because they're even a little bit removed, like their personalities are a little removed from the story and you don't really know who they are until their story continues. Yeah. I think without giving anything away, it was reminding me how I feel like part of the story explores also like what you owe the world if you're a celebrity. or even just a person, I guess.

But sometimes there's like this big expectation that like everyone know everything about you or like if you're not sharing everything about yourself. You're not like using your platform well enough or honest or exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that happens a lot for Kitty Car because of basically the things that she's helping with. but there could also be another interpretation that other people have about it where they're like, well, you should have been open about it or something like that. So sometimes we demand like complete transparency, which also made me think of you did reference. I was just looking through my highlights before this, but it was so much like the Megan Markle of it all,

especially too, where it's like they're demanding complete transparency, then she's a little bit transparent. and then they're like, oh, you said you didn't want publicity and now you're talking about it. And it's like, no, I just didn't want people like violating my privacy over and over again. You can't win. Yeah. And I thought it was cool how you could see that in early Hollywood. So you saw it like in that timeline as well. And then kind of like how it's been exaggerated now with social media as well with the present one for sure.

Thank you. Yeah. Um, so what was, so I think, again, without giving anything away, um, one of my favorite parts about Kitty Carr as a character is also that she's kind of, not even kind of. It's just a more honest portrayal of even a female who's made decisions that maybe, like, other people would judge. Like, we maybe call her a flawed character in terms of, like, who she's similar to. but like I think we're all flawed in a lot of our decision making. So how did you approach like you feel a lot of empathy for her multiple times, but then you also see how her decisions hurt multiple generations of people in some ways.

So how did you approach making her complex and flawed and likable? Well, no one is all good and no one is all bad. And I think I would try to really start with that basis when describing Kitty Car. And also in large form, and I'm also trying not to give anything away, the things that she was involved in made it very difficult for her to be her real self and to, you know, make the quote unquote right choices. And she really made that decision, right? Like becoming involved with what she did, that was part of the sacrifice. And so I think in a lot of ways for me, that was my saving grace for her. Obviously, I struggled with a lot of her choices, too.

Like how it went down with Richard made me really sad. I definitely thought she could have handled that better. And there's a lot of things. I mean, obviously, like her dealings in the motherhood arena were complicated. But that's really where I tried to start is just, you know, no one's all good and no one's all bad. And there's a reason why people are the way that they are. So I think I was trying to help the reader have empathy, really, for all the characters.

Yes. Yeah, I do think that came across for everyone involved. Because you cover a lot of issues that are complex and really, really emotionally charged. And I feel like you still showed, like, how multiple people had multiple perspectives, but you could understand each person's perspective, basically. Yeah. It's like, let's walk in their shoes and you might get it. Yeah. Yeah. Literally, instead of making it, like, so black and white, like, it's actually a little bit more gray or. It is. It's both gray.

Completely. So I was going to ask you a couple of questions that will give things away. So this is a post-spoiler part. So if you haven't read the book, just go ahead and pause. But if you've already read it and that's why you're here, you can keep listening. So one of the things that I thought was really cool is that when we're meeting Mary, who we later find out, find out is. kitty car. But in her perspective, she's kind of talking with a preacher when she's a kid and he's

explaining the significance of being named after Mary Magdalene. And Mary Magdalene's someone who biblically has been really looked over for basically her contributions to multiple communities as well as how much she did with Jesus even, basically. So I had literally just read a book a year ago about Mary Magdalene when I read that, and I highlighted it. And then basically Kitty goes on to have a kind of similar legacy where, like, her husband wouldn't have the film's credits that he has without her helping to write them. and her being able to pass is able to help people,

but it means that for most of her life, people don't know about her contributions. So how, like, purposeful was all of that? And was that, like, a big inspiration for the character? It was. Thank you for pointing that out. It was a huge reference. My grandmother's name is Mary Magdalene.

And I've always, like, wondered, like, why that was her name. She was very religious, but her mother, her mother was religious too, but she didn't go to church a lot. And so I always kind of wondered, like, where her name came from. And then I learned some family history, which is the really the reason behind, like, why I wrote the story the way that I did. It was like me trying to, like, unearth my own family history. But I liked that duality in terms of the name. And the way, yes, she was ignored. And truthfully, a lot of times, like, her identity was mistaken by people.

And so I loved that behind the scenes working towards something, how you can have power in the unacknowledgment, right? So it was definitely purposeful. And I wanted to bring out a little bit of that Robin Hood sense. So Mary Magdalene, she does. definitely functions as our Robin Hood. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. I totally agree. So where can people follow you to stay up to date on all of your stuff that you're working on? Yes. I have a website, crystalsmithpaw.com,

and then Instagram. Just my handle is at C. Smith Paul. I'm probably going to be starting a newsletter soon. I'm working on my second book right now, so no promises as to when that will be. ready. The newsletter, that is, the newsletter. So yeah, you know, and I love to talk to people on Instagram and I do answer my DMs. Yeah. I think that's how we're talking. It is. It is. It's true. Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on and talking about Kitty Carr. Thank you so much for having me again. This was fun. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Between the Lines. And if you did, The biggest thing you can do to support the podcast is to go rate and review it on whatever platform you listen on. You can also follow me on Instagram at The Girl with the Book on the couch.

And if you still need more thrillers in your life, check out Killing the Tea. My other podcast where I talk to my friend Gare about literally everything we read.