Bookwild - Elaine Murphy: I Told You This Would Happen

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

On this episode, I talk to Elaine Murphy about her darkly humorous psychological thriller I Told You This Would Happen.You can also watch the episode on YouTubeAuthor LinksInstagramGoodreadsWebsiteCheck out the book hereI Told You This Would Happen SynopsisCarrie’s sister is dead. Four months after losing her sister, Becca—a serial killer unknown to everyone else in town—Carrie Lawrence is finally free of her manipulative clutches. From now on, she’s keeping her hands clean, no more hiding dead bodies in the middle of the night, no more lies. She’s never been happier. Then she attends a meeting of the Brampton Kill Seekers, a group of amateur local sleuths, and learns that a recent victim left behind a note that incriminates her in their disappearance. All of a sudden the quiet, law-abiding life she’s been planning starts to unravel. She’s never had so much to lose. In her frantic quest to keep her secret dead and buried, she discovers someone nefarious lurking in the shadows…someone who’ll go to any lengths to bring her dark truths to light. Now if Carrie wants her secrets to stay hidden, she’ll have to get her hands very, very dirty. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hi, my name is Kate and I love to read. Like, I was carrying books around with me before Kindles were a thing. So I decided to start a podcast where I interview the authors of some of my favorite books, ask them all of my questions so that I can read between the lines of the books. Welcome back to another episode of Between the Lines. I'm here today with Elaine Murphy, who is the author of Look What You Make What You made me do and I told you this would happen. So we're going to be talking about that today. Thanks for being on the podcast. Of course. Thanks for asking me. Yeah. So first I did want to get to know a little

bit about you. So when did you know that you wanted to be an author? I've always known that I wanted to write something. I think as I got older, I realized that was a harder goal than I had originally I thought, but I always liked writing, but it was the thing that I always came back to. I even went to film school for screenwriting, and then basically as soon as I graduated, for some reason, I switched over to writing prose, and then I just realized I really, really liked it. I had a lot to learn about it, getting into the query trenches, getting rejected, learning how to refine my writing, but I kind of always knew that I wanted to do it. I knew that it was going to be hard, harder than I expected, but I have a day job, and I've

always been writing in the evenings and just sticking with it. Nice. That's cool. So what is your writing process like now? So do you kind of like know where stories headed when you start or do you figure out along the way? How does that work for you? I'm a bit of both, a plotter and a pancer. So I always know the gist of the story and the general trajectory. I try to mop out like the inciting incident, the first act turning point, the midpoint, the climax. I try to know where I'm going so that I can keep myself on pace and not lose kind of control of the story. but I tend to know something like they'll have a big fight, but I don't know what they're going to fight about or why they're going to have a fight at that moment. I just know that they will. And then I hope as I get to that moment,

that I realize why they're going to have that fight and that it works for the story. But I know that they're going to have to have a fight. I just don't know what it's going to be done until I get there. Yeah, so you're kind of like fluid with it. Like you know generally what you're going to do, but you can kind of improvise along the way still. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, if I told you this would happen, I knew that she was going to find this note and it was going to lead to like a series of events. But I did not know what those events were. I just hoped that cool ideas would occur to me as I got to each point, basically. That's so cool. Yeah. It's kind of a process. Yeah.

Yeah. So what about your characters? So how do you get to know them? Do you, is it kind of the same thing? Do you get to know them while you're writing or do you kind of write with them before you start the story? Yeah. It's a little bit of both. I try to do a character profile before I start. It's part of my procrastination process mostly. Like I'll look for an information photo. I'll make a little word doc

and I'll try to write like a little bio. Sometimes when I'm just writing the bio, it's stream of consciousness. And so whatever I write sometimes comes as a surprise to me as well in that process. But then as you're writing these, they develop themselves, right? They kind of get out of control. Like you'll write a scene of dialogue and it just flows and then you'll realize, oh, that's what they're like. So it's a bit of book. I try to know, but I don't try to force it to stay in a box if it's not working. I'll try to let it kind of come up more organically. Because I find that if I have like a joke or a line or scene that I want to write and then I try to write it when it's not meant to be there, you can tell that I'm forcing it. So I try to let the characters develop

themselves but still serve the story in the way I need it. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds, that makes sense. So with the book we're going to talk about today, I told you this would happen, part of it was from demand from readers after your first book, was that correct? The publisher asked for it. So the first book had it come out. Okay. Yeah. So the book, the first book came out last year in July and last year in February.

So six months, five months before the book came out, publisher asked me to write the sequel. Nice. That's awesome. So what was it like getting to return to writing those characters? because were you planning on returning to them when you wrote the first one? No. When I wrote the first one, I was like, done. Story complete.

And then when I got the request for the sequel, I wasn't going to say no because I was happy to have somebody be gifted in a book. But I was like, okay, but what's it going to be about? So the good thing I think about returning to a book is I did know all of the characters really well. So I could sort of mind their backstories to find future problems for them. but I did not know what the plot was going to be. I agreed to write it, and then I made up the idea.

Because I had absolutely no plans to write anything further. That's crazy. So we kind of know then what prompted you to write the second one. What prompted you to write the first one? Like, where did you come up with the idea for that one? You know, I always kind of forget where the initial inspiration struck, but there's a saying, like a good friend will help you move, but a true friend will help you bury a body.

And I remember thinking of that. And then I have a sister. And she's not a killer. I always have to tell everybody this. It's not a true story. But I thought to myself, if she came to me and said, hey, this thing happened, would you help me? I feel like we're supposed to be like, yes, I'll help you. But I would not help my sister.

She would fully blackmail me. And so I use that as a jumping off point to be like, well, what if you made the mistake of saying yes? and now your whole life is being dictated by this series of events. And then I had to amp it up. I gave her a serial killer. So it's not like a one-off and she's blackmailing you for like money. She's blackmailing you to continue to bury bodies or else. Yeah.

It was such a unique plot line. I loved that for both of them. And so then how would you describe I told you this would happen in a couple sentences? So I told you this would happen is Carrie's story. So at the end of book one, her serial killer sister is dead, and Carrie's dream is to have a safe, boring life. And she's like, awesome. Now I'm going to have a boring life. And then she realizes that a crime she committed in the first book is not quite as unresolved as she hoped it would be. There's a note out there pointing people in the direction of what really happened. And she's the only one who knows that it points to her. So now she has to continue committing like increasingly serious crimes to solve this clue before anyone else can in order to get the, crime-free life that she really wants. But she can't seem to draw the line in the sand to say,

okay, I'm going to stop here. She's in so deep that she has no way to go but forward, no matter what that means morally or ethically or murderously. She's in. Yeah. I feel like that like really sums up the tension of the story the whole time is like she's so badly wants everything to be normal. And then at the same time, it just absolutely can't be. So the whole time you're like, how, it's going to get this. Yeah, exactly. She's like, I want no more crimes. I'll just commit this one, and then that will be the last one for sure.

And then everything goes wrong constantly. It's like, okay, just one more. She's like any type of ad. Just one more. This is the last one. But it's never the last one. Yes, yes. That is definitely it.

And I think you did market it that it could technically be a standalone. I recommend reading both of them, but people could technically just read this one, and it would all still make sense, right? yeah i agree i mean i think that you'll get more like more out of the story if you know the backstory but it was intended to be like if you hadn't read the first one hopefully there's enough information here for you to understand what happened to enjoy this story it's more like the continued adventures of carry as opposed to a continuation of the first story but yeah yeah i think any series you're going to get more out of it if you've read all of them yeah yeah i completely agree

so we are going to talk about spoilers so i say it every episode if you haven't read it, just pause and go read it and then you can come back. But if you're here because you already read it, you can obviously keep listening. So one of my favorite descriptions of Carrie at the beginning said she was a 28-year-old stationary designer with an undeniable ability to attract psychopaths. So what do you think it is about Carrie that makes her attract psychopaths? You know, I thought about that a lot. And I think part of it is that she's basically been groomed to do your bidding. And she's also, you know, like when you're a kid and someone's picking at you, they say like don't react and then they'll get

bored and move on. Carrie always gives you the reaction. And I think if you're a second past, like back or like footloose, you just want to keep poking her because she never stops delivering on that response you're looking for. And so I think she's fun. I think she's fun for them because she never just cuts you off, she doesn't draw the line, she participates even while she's grumbling about doing it. And I think for a lot of people who want to, you know, harm other people, that's a great person to target because she's basically has a sign and her says this is victim and they're looking for one. And she's like, okay, here I am. Yes, that is a really perfect description. That's like exactly what goes on through both of the books. Even when she tries to stand up to them, they're like, no.

And then the fight is fun for them as well. So she just always provides entertainment and that's what they're looking for. She hasn't figured out how to stop. You're right. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It kind of, the second book kind of focuses a little bit on trauma and PTSD given what she's been through. And at one point when she's reflecting on it, she thinks, I don't have post-traumatic stress disorder. I can't have post-traumatic anything when my trauma is still all too present.

So that kind of like confused state that she's in like have I been traumatized or am I still actively being traumatized? Kind of leads her to like questioning herself. So then it also turns into like am I being paranoid or is this just another bad thing happening? So how did you approach using a traumatic experience to kind of make her a questionable narrator at the beginning of the book? Yeah. So, you know, for a lot of us, if we hear something that goes bump in the night, we're thinking, okay, it's the house settling, it's the wind. And 99.9% of the time, knock on wood, that's all it is.

For Carrie, it's the inverse. Her life experiences have told her it's a serial killer in the closet. And so she's got a war now with like, okay, the serial killers in my life are gone. I should be able to have this normal life. I should just be thinking to myself, okay, it's just the house settling. but her lived experiences tell her it's not. And so also like the experience, the trauma that people think she's experienced

is simply the confrontation with Luloo. So they think, okay, your trauma is this little ball. And she's got this whole, you know, history of trauma that informs all of her choices. And so percary, it's a bit more about, I want this boring life, I want to believe it's true. I'm not going to overreact, but dear God, my life experiences have told me,

that there's a still look in the closet, I've got to look in the closet. I've got to get a knife and look in a closet. I think it also is the reason that, you know, some of us wouldn't go into a dark barn in the middle of the night. But for Carrie, she's like, I've got to because whatever is in that barn is going to come from you if I don't go confront it. So I think it enforced her choices in a way that we wouldn't have to relate to because we haven't been through all those trauma. She knows that she can't run away from it. It's going to keep coming, so she has to start confronting it. Yeah, that's actually kind of an interesting dynamic because it's the fact that she tries to confront it that kind of perpetuates it over and over again. Like normally,

you hope if you confront something, it fixes. Yeah, like everything she tries fails, basically. And so she has to be using more three methods, even though her whole goal is not to be using those methods at all. But for her hand in its force, and she's so had so much practice that she kind of just knows what to do at this way yeah yeah especially so she's really been trying to have that normal life but it feels pretty impossible with becca as her sister especially once she started blackmailing her to help her hide her crimes so how do you feel about what carrie has done to protect herself and how justified are her actions since she wouldn't do them on her own like her sister's definitely provoking the actions. I think at the very start, the first body, the first two bodies, you can say that

Carrie is a victim of these circumstances. You can't say that for 13 more bodies. At some point, Carrie is a part of her own problem. And there's, I think, a line at the end of the book when she says something like, you know, Carrie's done a lot of bad things. And she talks about how, like, you know, at first you're just wearing a mask, trying to get through it. But at some point, you realize it's not a mask. It's just you. And I think that's, very much true for Carrie. So I think she's doing bad things. I think she thinks in her mind it's for the right reason, but you can't keep justifying it forever. So Carrie's skill absolutely is justifying what she's been doing. But I think at the end she accepts, okay, these are bad things,

but I'm going to do them because I'm so far in. I still see a light of the middle funnel. I'm just going to do whatever it takes there. And then hopefully once she gets there, she can close the door on the past and forget it. But she's done bad things. I wouldn't say that she's a victim anymore. She's definitely one of the perpetrators. Yeah. Yeah, it's gone on for pretty long at this point. And later in the book, as you were kind of referencing, she's thinking about the situations that she's gotten stuck in because she's Becca's sister. And she's thinking about, like, I've wanted help for as long as I can remember. But that's the thing about sociopaths about Becca. You're afraid to ask for help, not just because of what might happen to you, but because of what will happen to everyone you care about.

And those fears are like pretty common with people who are related to abusers in some way. But sometimes she does have these like good moments with Becca where she is having fun almost or enjoying this sisterly relationship. So how did you approach like having realistically light moments amidst like all the really dark moments. with her. I think a part of the intention is to balance the tone. So sometimes, you know, because they're sisters and they bicker all the time, we can make that funny. But I think if you put it into like a dark situation, like they're burying a body in the woods, but they're bickering when we do it. Like they're in the basement opening boxes, but they're bickering while they do it. You know, Becca doesn't really do anything objectively nice for Carrie, something that someone

would do for us that we would think is nice. You know, she eats all her food. She makes a mess up her home. She mocks her. She stalks her. She steals her phone. She's a nightmare. But I think that's the dynamic that Carrie is used to. And I think because so much of what happens with Becca is dark that when Becca is just verbally jabbing her to carry, that's like her recoup. That's the opportunity to take a deep breath. And I think for me as the writer, the opportunity to make it funny. We can be doing this really dark thing and we could be talking very seriously about what we're doing. But I like the irony of them just bickering about, you know, who did get earlier in the day and who's annoying who while they're bearing a body right right um by the end of it carry

feels like she's figured out a situation that will keep becca behaving do you think that there's any way for that to actually be true with Becca no not not at all and I don't think Carrie thinks it either um you know Carrie said the words that she's supposed to say like don't kill anybody else and Becca said what she's supposed to say, okay, I won't, but they would both be foolish if they thought there was any chance that that would be the case going forward. So, yeah, if there were a decree and there's no plans for one, Becca would fully still be killing people. Yes. Yeah, especially since her were such, like, in the moment, like, rage killings, basically, I feel like someone's always going to be

pissing her off. Yeah, she's always going to get the urge. She's had them for her whole life. They wouldn't just stop because Carrie had asked her to stop. So fully, Becca just was what she was supposed to say. Carrie said what she was supposed to say, but those are just their lines. Becca is a real killer. And she will never stop until she has stopped. Yeah. Right. So do you, I don't know if you can even talk about it, but was that the final book? Do you have any other ideas for another book? Or is that like not something you could talk about? There's no book planned right now. No one has asked her. and I'm not going to start writing it if they don't because I don't spend time on it if they don't buy it.

If there were another book, Becca would fully be still killing people. And I think it would be like the ultimate final showdown between the two sisters. No more Caria's list. More Caria is like an antagonist to Becca. Yeah. But there's nothing in the work. So the book was intended to end. Same as book one, whereas if there isn't another book, you get enough closure.

Oh, yeah. But there's like a tiny crack in the door where you could see where it might go. If you can. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. So where can people follow you so they can stay up to date with everything? Just kind of plug whatever. I have a website, Elaine-Murphy, or yeah, Elaine-hyphen Murphy.com. I'm most active on Instagram at Elaine M. Books and also on Twitter with the same handle. Yeah. Awesome. So I will have all of those links in the show notes too so that people can go there. And then I have one more question that I'm starting to ask people at the end. What have you read recently? that everyone needs to know about.

Oh, man. I always forget everything I've read as soon as I read it. Yeah. I've had that before. Simone St. James's most recent book. The Book of Cold Cases. Yes, the Book of Cold Cases. I thought that that one was really good.

I loved her last one, the Don Motel. I forget everything I read the second I read. If I had my ear reader handy, I would just look at my most recent. You can also look at my Goodreads because I do document everything I read on there. Nice. And I'm a huge fan of Karen. He's a British prime thriller writer. I read all his book.

Nice. He's my favorite. Yeah. I do always put the Goodreads link in the show notes as well. So people can definitely go there and see everything that you're reading. And otherwise, thank you for being a guest today. Yeah. Thank you so much for asking me.

It's great talking to you.