Bookwild - Elizabeth Rose Quinn's Follow Me: A Thrilling Takedown of Mommy-Influencer Culture

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

This week, I got to talk with Elizabeth Rose Quinn about her new thriller Follow Me! We dive into the personal inspiration for this book, and how cathartic it was to write as a new mother.Follow Me SynopsisAfter her twin sister, Chiara, goes missing at a mom-fluencer weekend, Adrienne Shaw will find her no matter what it takes. They may have been on the outs, but no one comes for her sister and gets away with it.It’s been a year, the authorities have no answers, and her brother-in-law is useless in the matter. It’s time for Adrienne to take the case into her own hands. Following in Chiara’s last footsteps, Adrienne goes undercover, infiltrating the same influencer retreat as the last thing she wants to be: an Instamommy.The remote ranch in Northern California is certainly welcoming—in a cult-adjacent kind of way. A charismatic leader, communal crafts, fixed smiles—and a lot of dead eyes.Going on gut instinct and chasing a wild theory—that Chiara came here and never left—Adrienne is determined to uncover the truth before the too-perfect-to-believe women figure out who Adrienne really is: a threat to be eliminated. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

This week I got to talk with Elizabeth Rose Quinn about her new thriller Follow Me, which is a scathing takedown of mommy influencer culture, specifically in the sense that mothers are manipulated so much in that realm. So here is what the synopsis is. After her twin sister, Kiarra goes missing at a mom fluencer weekend, Adrian Shaw will find her no matter what it takes. They may have been on the outs, but no one comes for her sister and gets away with it. It's been a year. The authorities have no answers, and her brother-in-law is useless in the matter.

It's time for Adrian to take the case into her own hands, following in Kiara's last footsteps, Adrian goes undercover, infiltrating the same influencer retreat as the last thing she wants to be, an insta mommy. The remote ranch in Northern California is certainly welcoming, in a cult-adjacent kind of way, a charismatic leader, communal crafts, fixed smiles, and a lot of dead eyes. Going on gut instinct and chasing wild theory, the Kiara came here and never left, Adrian is determined to uncover the truth before the two perfect to believe women figure out who Adrian really is a threat to be eliminated. This book ended up kind of reminding me of the same passion that Lori Brand had for writing

bodies to die for. She felt really passionate about the social issue of the way that we talk about our bodies and it inspired her to write something thrilling and horrific from that place of rage. And what I loved about my conversation with Elizabeth is she was sharing as well, becoming a new mother during the pandemic especially and all of the different mixed messages she was getting while also the somewhat manipulation that happens really easily to moms in influencer spaces. So if that sounds interesting, you need to go pick this one up. But for now, let's hear from Elizabeth. I am super excited to talk about Follow Me, but I did want to get to know you a little bit before we dive into that book. So what was your moment where you were like, I want to

write a book or your moment that was like, I think I want to be a writer? I mean, in terms of wanting to be a writer, I always wanted to be a writer. Like I was making books out of construction. paper before I knew how to write words before I could read. Right. It's like, Mom, it's a picture book. She was like, that makes sense since you don't know the alphabet yet. And my dad was a professor at Berkeley, and so he wrote a lot of books. It's part of his work.

So kind of writing was always out there in the atmosphere as like, someone could do this. And it could be. Yeah. And then spent a long time trying to figure out how am I going to do this. Yeah. Right. I feel like that's, yeah, the whole how, what's my version of doing it is the hard part. Absolutely. Yeah. So I tried many different versions of writing. And this was really the one that I always wanted, but felt like too insane, like two out here. It's like saying I want to be an astronaut.

Yeah. So it kind of, I kind of still can't believe it's like worked out. It's like, I tried so many more viable versions of this career. And yet here I am. Yeah, I mean, that's awesome. What does your writing process look like for fiction? So do you plot stuff out? Do you pants it? How do you do it?

I plot. So I spent, you know, 15 years in L.A. working in writers' rooms and doing that. And so you really learn to outline, outline, outline, outline, outline, outline, mostly because you're generally on a deadline and I worked in a lot of multicam. So it's like, oh, rehearsal poorly. And the crew's going to be here at 7 a.m. And they need a script and we have 40 pages to rewrite today.

So I'm trying to avoid as many story problems as possible is why I outline. Also, because I have two small kids, it's like, particularly with this first book, I wrote so much of it like in my parked car. Oh, yeah. And it would be things like, I have 10 minutes. And with an outline, I know what I can do in those 10 minutes. I know where I'm going? I'm not trying to be like, where is inspiration?

It's like, no, no, it's plot point B. I can do that in 10 minutes. Yeah. I am definitely an outliner, big time outliner. That's a really good point. I hadn't thought of how it's like, if you really do have everything planned out, you can even make like 15 minutes really productive. if you just know like one thing you can do.

Yes, my lovely sister is also a professor and she, when she was getting her PhD, went to a conference about how to write your dissertation. And the woman said, always park your work on a downslope. That was how she phrased it. So that it's easy to get started the next day. Like if you have a really easy passage coming up or for me like an easy scene, it's like, I'll leave that so that the next day. if I have like a big chunk of writing just to like get into it really easily.

And the outline means I'm permanently in that down. So like I never have to figure out what to do. It's there waiting for me. Yeah. That's, I love that. But speaking of kids and I'm assuming chauffeering them all over the place sometimes. What was that part of the inspiration for the book? It gets into mom fluencer culture.

What drew you to writing about? that in a thriller format um this was one of those books where i felt like i was picking up tiny pieces of it for a decade and just kind of like oh that's interesting and like putting it in my back pocket and trying to like like i would read an article about like moms who are microdosing and i was like that's really cool and then kind of turning it over and one of the things that you learn as a tv writer is when something is a story versus smells like a story so there's a lot of things we're like it smells like a story, but it's not a whole story. I knew somebody who was like, oh, yeah, this actress friend of mine just put out a book

about, like, embracing the joy and the mess of motherhood. And they were like, I'm so pissed because she's got like two nannies in a full-time speaker that she does not mention in this book. That sucks. And this was like in 2013 that I had this conversation. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then as influencer culture built

that Wild West in the beginning where they didn't have to say what was an ad Yeah, yeah, we didn't have like spawn con and all of that And then I had my first child And she turned one and the next week quarantine started. So suddenly it was like, my entire universe was like shrunk down to my apartment

and a phone. I just like, started to look at all these things and I was like, okay, I like work in production and TV. Like, they have lighting. It's a really long time to edit. Yeah. You set up this camera. Like, I was asking kind of bizarre production questions and I felt like maybe other people

who were watching weren't asking and I was just like probably, yeah. It's full bake. Mm-hmm. But at the end of the video, they're like, buy this thing and you can be just with me. And I felt very. also very suspicious of like, well, they're selling me this product, but they're also clearly selling my attention to the company. Yes.

And not really being honest about that. And so this kind of conflict of like me being a parent, having my world like reduced to quarantine animals. And then also just being like, I'm being sold as a product as much as like the pans that they're selling me. and that feels disingenuous and this whole kind of like it's easy i'm accessible if we met we would be friends and we can't let's receive if you buy these pans we're basically cooking together and i was just like right yeah those are the places that all this stuff came from it was like but each of those were

like their own thing and then right i love you know stepford wives and get out and promising young woman and I had worked in screenwriting for a long time. And so I loved the vehicle of horror to do social commentary. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so when I was like, what is this? I was like, oh, I could make it like a horror novel. And I read mysteries and thrillers.

And I love a cozy mystery, a British cozy mystery. Give me an old lady solving crime in a village. I'm happy. Yeah. My hours of BBC viewing could actually come in handy. Right. And again, it was like all these little pieces. just like together. That's cool.

I can remember it might have been, I listened to Big Magic a while ago. And she kind of talked about how like if you're in the mindset of thinking about story, then like you are like attuned to things that will like kind of help build the story. So it sounds like it was kind of like that, which is kind of cool. Probably because it sparks your interest in your thoughts already so naturally. so like why not write about it, especially when you can do it like satirically. Mm-hmm. It was really, I was really mad.

I was like, I can't be this mad at my baby or my husband, but I can't be this mad at mythical people that I will. Yes. Like gruesomly murder. That was like an exorcism. I was like, I've got to get this out. Yeah. Totally, though.

The other thing it's reminding me of, I can't remember which podcast I was listening to, but like how funny it is. is that like 20-year-old models sell us like, like whatever, skin care routines for your face. And it's like that, no, you're 21. That's why your face looks that way. Like my face isn't going to look that way. Just if I buy this product. So there's just, there's so much about marketing that's like, let me hit you at your insecurity

and hope that like hurts enough that you don't think too hard about it. Yeah. And I think the one to punch for me of, there's a lovely podcast called You Are Good. And one of the hosts, Sarah Marshall asked, she said, I think horror movies are the way we deal with our like wider societal fears. And, you know, I was listening to our episode like on Poultergeist and on Rosemary's Baby and on, you know, even E.T. And like all these different things. and like what societal fears those were dealing with. And I was like, well, what's the societal fear right now?

And the New York Times had just come out with its scream line, which I think they had done as like a joke, like call this line and scream. And thousands and thousands and thousands of parents called to scream. Whoa. And they had to kind of do a serious article like, oh, things are really bad. Like women are leaving the workplace in droves. Like schools are closed. Quarantine's crazy.

Like there's no social security. I was like, oh, I think the societal fear right now is, parenthood as we have constructed it in the United States is a nightmare and impossible and has been irrevocably broken and no one thinks it's going to like come back right and quarantine's over and I was like ooh about that yeah and that you were in that really unique position too of like you said it was your first kid was like with the pandemic so it's like something that also should have like been a normal experience or you had all kinds of expectations for it, I'm sure. Now it's like your first time being a parent and you're like doing it in an environment where you're like, I don't even know what to do. And no one does. Like there's no, yeah, yeah, I can't call my mom. She's never parented like this, right? Right. And I don't own a home and I'm living in an apartment and we don't have any outdoor space and people are like, just go outside. And I'm like, the park has 18 foot high fences around it.

Oh. Like, we can't go to the park. Like, that's, yeah. I was there, like, trying to, like, basically, like, build jungle gyms inside my house and, like, doing, like, pom-hound marble runs on the wall with, like, paper towel tubes and, like, tying balloons to the ceiling so I could, like, try to do motor skills. Like, our pediatricians said, how does she do on stairs? And I was like, I don't know. She's like, well, why not? And I was like, because we don't have any. She's like, oh, yeah. I was like, where are we? We can't. can't go find stairs. Like, we're not supposed to go outside. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And we felt like a horror movie. So I kind of was like, what if I make it a horror movie? Right. Yeah, totally. Make it a horror story for me. It does sound like it was like the like, cathartic way to deal with just all of it was to like write something. Yes, very much so. Very much so.

You're like, you got it. So there's also the sisters or twin sisters at the heart of the story. That's a lot of what's going on. And there's clearly been tension in the past. They both have their own things. How did you craft their sister dynamic? Something that's always interested me and, like, as a theme that's come up in my writing for many years,

is I always love when people experience the same thing. and have very different reactions to it. And that the tension between you're the only person who understands and yet the way that you're handling this is so foreign to me. And that kind of push-pull. And so I thought to have them share a really kind of difficult childhood that for them set the stage for what is parenting, what does it look like? What do I want from it?

And to have them both have really opposite reactions. You know, Adrian's reaction is I'm never doing that. I don't like, I'm not interested in men. I don't want kids. It's all a sham. It was horrible. I'm not doing it. And Kiara's reaction makes as much sense to me, which is I really want to do it.

And I want it to kind of look like what I saw in the movies. I don't care if it's lame. I want to live in a little tract house. I want to try to like, you know, go to the park and like have little party parties like I didn't get that and it's really important to me and the idea that the connection also becomes what's so painful I felt like was really and then just from a story's track the perspective I wanted an outsider to go to the retreat because I wanted to have that lens of not somebody who had like already bought in but somebody who was just like

what hell is this what's going on yeah and it's easier to do that with an outsider point of view. It doesn't happen. Yeah, it definitely is. It is interesting because it's like what you're saying, trauma can like just do totally different things to people. Because yeah, sometimes or even in just different areas of your life, sometimes you are like, oh, I want to do it so I can do it different. And sometimes you're like, I don't want any part of that. So it is nice having both of them like having those different experiences. But then with her being an outsider, you kind of need an outsider through Adrian, too, because it's getting into a very cult-like organization. So the people there have already bought all the way in.

They're sipping the Kool-Aid. So we need her to be on the outside to be able to even like see what's going on from a mostly unbiased perspective. So did you do research into cults? Like, how did you create that scenario? I mean, I think there's a way, you know, that you talked about in terms of people selling you solutions to things that, like, are problems they don't actually have. It's like your stomach is flat because you're 22 and hot. Like, that's weird. Yes.

But praying on people's insecurities. And then, of course, I think, like, there's a lot. lot of like really great like cult documentaries and like the next C and one had come out and what does it look like like what's kind of the common denominator of those days so often it's like people are desperate and they're lonely and they're looking for community and support and they're looking for a way to live their lives that feels meaningful or they feel seen and that's so true when you become a parent because it can be really hard when you have a small child. It is very isolating to kind of be all alone on your one little nap schedule, you know. And we don't live in a society that really

supports parents and young children being out in the public. And it just felt like what a perfect breeding ground for somebody to take advantage of them. And they do. I mean, they do all the time on Instagram. And it was like maybe the isn't like a hut in the middle of nowhere where you're like signing over your bank account, but you are suddenly like buying a bunch of stuff because you're desperately trying to like feel connection. So it didn't feel like that far of a leap for me from where does isolation take you? Sometimes it makes you make really bad choices because you're desperate.

Yeah, totally. And then with the women at this like summit, they, obviously we kind of talked about they're presenting one way and then there's a lot of other stuff going on behind the scenes uh which is kind of a theme all throughout but definitely with them as well uh so how a couple questions how much fun did you have kind of like making them contradict each themselves and just like writing that whole dynamic i mean It was cathartic. It was an extra system. You know, it was everything. There was like a popular sleep training person, you know, who was like on Instagram and was doing, like, had a website

and my daughter wasn't sleeping. And of course, I'm like dropped in an apartment with her during the pandemic. And so I'm like reading this thing like, it's a Bible. And it's this whole like, oh my gosh, like you just do these eight steps and they'll sleep perfectly. And you're clicking. through and it's okay if you've done this you've really set the stage like the last two steps are the ones you've got to do perfectly and I'm like okay and then I click and it's like and now you have to sign up for a subscription to get those last two steps oh wow and I was like I'm going to burn everything to the ground yes I was like eight paragraphs into an angry email uh-huh to that website and then I was like yeah I don't think this is the most productive way to do this but also that I

I think at some point I realized, like, this person does not have children. No. And this person, like, does not take into account, like, neurodiverse kids or kids who have disabilities. You know, we have wonderful friends that we love and their son has disabilities. And so, like, their experience of, like, what sleep training was, they're like, we can't do that. Like, we actually go see when he's crying because something terrible could be happening because it has. And I'm just like. Right.

this idea of like this disconnect of like everything's perfect and you're just like there's no way that real life is perfect and you presenting it as such is not possible and you know everyone who's got like I just use olive oil and I drink a lot of water it's like you got a facelift just say you got a facelift just say it I know like it is it's nice when people will just say what they not that you like owe it to us to tell us every procedure you get done. But like sometimes it's, I do like, I do prefer like reality TV is what comes to mind, uh, when they can just be honest about what they did between seasons because like your whole face looks different. It's like, don't sell me like a farmstead trad wife lifestyle. And then it turns out you have immeasurable wealth. That is not the same as my husband and I like

making, you know, a really globally, very high salary of like $60,000 a year and buying a farm. Yeah. That is a, and you not saying that is so disingenuous. Yes. I agree. You don't have to tell me you got a facelift, but don't try to sell me all of oil that's going to make my wrinkles go away. Exactly. You don't get to have it both ways.

And so I really, I enjoyed that maybe a little too much. Yeah, totally. But don't live in your house. So you just get a second house. And it's like, what? Yeah, it's just such a disconnect. I wanted to interrupt this episode really quickly. I have a goal of monetizing Book Wild, but I would love to do it without having to have ads in the podcast. And one way that I can do that is through my Patreon community. For those who don't know, Patreon is a community platform that allows creators to share what they're creating behind a paywall.

And so that means exclusive content or early releases. The Book Wild Patreon has two tiers. The first tier is the bookish tier. And at that tier, you get all of the episodes out a day early. And you get access to our private community chat where we can talk about anything book-related or TV shows or movies. The second tier is the Book Wild tier. And it includes everything from the first tier, but also Book Wild's Backlist Book Club. So this year I've been wanting to also still read more backlist, even though I read plenty of arcs.

And Book Wild's Backlist Book Club felt like the perfect way to do that. We meet on Sundays. We are international right now. So Sundays are the best way to do it. And we meet on Zoom and we all pick a book and we talk about it. And then we talk about everything else we read during the month. And then we pick another book for the next month. So it's been so much fun.

so far and we'd love to have you join the book club so if you'd like to support the book wild podcast you can go to the patreon link in the show notes and you can sign up for whichever to your interest you and if you're looking for a free way to support the show if you can like and review it on whichever platform you listen to that helps so much the other thing with adrian at the beginning is she is trying to become sober but she's also dealt with uh like pill addiction, Xanax, stuff like that, which is also kind of like her way of coping with everything that happened to them as well. So what how did how did you kind of handle writing that part with her? Because her kind of inciting incident too kind of like helps her want to stop even

more. I mean addiction is a disease. It's a disease that hits every demographic that hits every, you know, race and class. And I know and love many people who have struggled with substance abuse issues. And I guess I just wanted it to be a story that also dealt with like, it doesn't have to be like the most dramatic thing. It can just be somebody who like has not been able to deal with hearts of their lives are really painful. And when everybody else was partying and being fun in their 20s, it was totally fine.

And they kind of haven't been able to let go of that numbing. And to just kind of treat that with compassion. You know, that I mean, my hope is that when she talks about like when she gets to the summit and she's really struggling and she just wants to drink so bad that you feel that it's not because she's like some like lazy idiot who can't get her, you know, life together. It's like this is someone who's like emotionally in a lot of pain. It doesn't know how to weather that discomfort on her own. Yeah. I guess I just wanted that to be part of the story because, you know, Kiara's addiction is her own kind of like, I'm going to make it perfect.

I'm going to make it cool. I'm going to do it right. Like that's its own kind of like hyper focus. Yeah. Yeah. And so it felt normal to me that somebody else would be like, I'm never doing that and it's going to look like this. And I'm having a great time and you don't know. And it's like, you also haven't dealt with what happened to you.

Yeah. Yeah. I have compassion for her. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And with Kiar, like you're saying the, like, it's basically an obsession for her too, to want everything to look controlled and to look perfect. Yeah. And you feel like that's also what made her susceptible.

to like getting into a group think or a hive mind institution or whatever. Yeah, they're both trying to deal with a big, big wound. And I have deep compassion for both of them. Yeah. He hasn't tried to like resolve an issue from their past by doing something that seems totally disconnected in their future. It's like, I know I have. Yeah.

And that's okay. And just to know what you're doing it and then to not have people exploit that. That's the part that really. Right. I'm going to get it. I know. I get it. Yeah.

It's really shady and obviously manipulative. There's like a lot of manipulation going on throughout this whole story as well. I think like the other thing is like in some ways. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to say it. But I think women recognize that we're more powerful than we used to be told. I think women by and large know that. But I think also there's something about like if you're a mom, you become like unassuming in certain things.

Like there's this like moms wouldn't like sell me wrong or try to manipulate. It's a mom. And you're like, yeah, but they're people. So like some of them are going to do it. Yes, the kind of hiding in plain sight. Yeah. Benal thing that also not to be like super political, but it's like white women are pros at that, right?

Like, but I'm a mom. And you're like, you just said something super fucking racist in Target. It doesn't matter that you have a two-year-old in your cart. That's like reprehensible behavior. I'm going to worse. Yes. No, you're teaching you're too. This is how you behave.

And so this kind of mask of like, I'm just a mommy. It's like, why are you giving up your own agency? And if you aren't giving it up, why are you like playing into this idea of basically like, I'm just a big baby? And now I'm not accountable for my actions. It's just like, that's devious and very rough. It is. I'm not doing that with you.

So I think there was a lot of that. And that's also part like the social media world and the mommy influencer world. Like, it's so white. It's all white. Oh, I'm sure. Look at my perfect little picket fence life. And I'm not actually going to like comment on anything that's happening in the world because this is just about babies. And I'm like, right, your babies live in the world.

Yeah, they're going to. Like they're going to be on their own eventually. Yeah. It also reminds me social media at large, not even just like mom fluencer side of it. I have heard a couple of the podcasts I listen to every now and then they talk about like 80% of the hateful comments they're getting. They like click on the person and it's a person who's like boy mom, lover of Christ. And it's like a Bible verse underneath it. And she's like, what?

This shouldn't make sense. But it's like, by and large, that's who's leaving these shitty comments. And like, in a weird way, not in the shitty racist comment way, but in the way of like, I used to be a whole person. And now I've been reduced to mommy. Yeah. And I did feel so much anger. I felt so angry. I was so angry.

because I actually started writing this book when I found out, like I had started writing it, like kind of outlining it, but didn't really know what was going on. And then I thought I was pregnant again with my son. And I was like, we really wanted to have this baby. We were really excited. And I also, like, Bernice has a speech about feeling like, I am getting shoved out of my own life, like, against my will.

I don't want to go anywhere. I want to stay me and have these children. That was how I felt. I wrote that in one sitting, just like, so angry. And so I don't think saying you love Christ and then leaving, like, racist comments on Instagram is the way to deal with that rage. But I'm also just like, don't be angry on Instagram. Like, fight for a universal basic income.

Right. Yeah. That's where rage should go. Yes. Don't be a mean girl in high school. like fix your local school like get the library fixed like create a park where there's a parking lot like do something productive that helps everybody right but that anger I mean I think a lot of like mothers have that and it's so like but this is the best thing that's ever happened to you and it really is

like oh am I wrong for feeling this way and when I started sending the book out to people who read it first who really got it were like I have that rage and I was like okay welcome I do too we're not supposed to talk about what we can here right right and it's very new that we're talking about just like the the huge I'm sorry to my sister-in-law about this like the massive amount of sacrifices you are going to have to make and the fact that there are going to be days where you're like why did I do this And that it's just like, it's not going to be just this beautiful thing where you're like, oh, I have a kid. It's my whole world.

Like, this is my whole heart. It's not going to, it's not just that. There's so much else that goes on. But even that conversation has only recently, like you're saying, become a little bit more normal to talk about is like, you still feel rage. It's not like you transform. It's kind of like the, what is? Is that the mother or the Madonna?

What is that? The Madonna or the whore? Yeah. So it's like almost like that, but it's like, oh, you're a mom. So now, like, you don't have other needs. This just fulfills everything for you. Like, you just become a whole other person. And it's like you probably do become a whole other person in some ways.

But to me, the thing that scares me the most about it is what you said is, feeling pushed out of my own life. Because like no matter what, the women end up doing more work, even just down to the fact that you have to like give birth to the child. I mean, and I, this is part of why I wrote a book and didn't write a screenplay. It was because I had spent years doing like development that would just like go nowhere and like almost getting staffed on shows and like doing like free work on pilots that didn't get picked up.

And I was like, well, no one's going to hire me to work in a writer's. anymore because I have two kids. Yeah. It's like my career is dead. Because you're expected really long hours, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I really needed this book.

Yeah. My child. And so I'm just going to write a book. Yeah. publish it as a PDF on Reddit if I have to do. I want to write this book. If I don't write this book, I'm going to have to have an exorcism because it's right.

demon living under my skin. And yeah, but it was like I, but part of it was because like, I'm so sick of not being able to be in control of my life and now it's going to be even worse and like, I'm not getting tired anymore. And I just was like, I'm like, why is like the accommodation of I need to know when I'm going to go home? Mm-hmm. That would have been unheard of to ask for.

I need to know what time I'm going to be home. Right. I would have been fired like day one. I wouldn't have been hired at all. So I just like, I'm going to do this because I have to. What I love about that is it's like you created, it's like this book was your way of still keeping yourself, like parts of yourself. It's like you're like, oh, I don't want this to happen. And in a conventional workplace, it's going to happen.

I'm not going to get to like feel like that person still. no one's going to see me that way. So I think it's really empowering that you were then like, okay, then I'm going to write this book. Like, I'm still going to do things for me and that like feel important to me. Yeah. And I just really needed that. I was not willing to disappear. Yeah. And I felt like in COVID and quarantine, I had to because like I needed to care for my child and my husband was working and like we had an edit bait in our bedroom and like it was really hard and I really just did like there was no space for me to exist that wasn't there wasn't somebody else already in that room. It wasn't it wasn't an empty room. Yes and so I just felt like I'm going to

make an empty room on this page and yeah things I'm not supposed to say about how angry I feel and how betrayed I feel by everyone who told me that I could have it all. I'm like, I can't think of all. There's no one to do the laundry. Exactly. Totally. I don't know if you know Lori Brand, but your story is reminding me of her story because she wrote a book called Bodies to Die for it,

and it's about body wars, like just all of the different ways we have talked about women's bodies for decades now. But she felt the same way. so fired up about her message around that that like I think she almost said something really similar when you were talking about how you were like I will publish this on a PDF if I have to like I need to get this story out there. That's how she felt about it. And it's interesting because hers like is a thriller that's like also kind of taking place around conventions, but it's like bodybuilding ones. And then like it develops into this really explosive social horror by the end of it. So I love that

both of you guys, like, were really passionate about these specific things. And then kind of what you're saying, we can use horror so much to talk about society and the things that are the scary. And then, like, vamping up the horrorness of it, like, makes it feel, uh, it really connects fictionally, too. So I'm just making book comps now. I love it. I mean, I think there's a way that there's a lot of this happening, right? Like a lot of, you know, you look at like, what is A24 except like prestige horror, right? But it's really prodding at these parts of culture

that we haven't talked about. And I think, you know, horror and satire to me, I didn't really, I've gotten a lot of questions about like, what did it feel like to, like, combine these crazy genres? I was like, oh, I didn't realize I was doing that. It just felt like the only way to say what I needed to say was to have it be really funny, really dry, and then really gory. Yes.

But those felt like two versions of like, how can I take this reality and heighten it so that I can say all this bonkers stuff? Yeah. Because I don't think that like, you know, a beautiful literary fiction version of this book would have hit as hard. It wouldn't have served what I needed it to do. And that's not to shape. Not for me.

It wouldn't have for me. Yeah. Well, yeah. I think it did too because it's what you're saying like, kind of like for the people who aren't noticing how angry they are even maybe. It's like seeing it exacerbated is what sometimes make people like realize what's happening at like a lower, less fictional level. So I agree. I love to the buildup. It was great. Yeah. It's been funny. because some of the criticism that the book's gotten, I don't read the reviews, but my lovely husband will send me the nice ones. I'm like, we're the bad ones saying.

And it's a lot of like, this wasn't realistic. That's a big thing that people don't like about this book. And I'm like, yeah. You're right. It's not realistic. I'm sorry that you have the expectation that it would be. If I wanted to be a book wanting to be realistic, I also would give it one star, like,

or zero stars. So like totally hear that. But for me, like, what is Instagram except just like, I mean, I joke that it's like, it's the cult newsletter. It's everybody saying the best thing that's happened to them and everything's cropped and everything's funny and pithy and on brand. And I just was like, that's not realistic either. And so to the right into the real world, real world, and that's Adrienne's perspective,

and have people be like, but it's not realistic. I'm like, yeah, that's kind of the whole point is that it's not realistic. You're like, so you got it. You're just don't like it. Totally fine. I don't need everybody like it, but I've enjoyed that like, why isn't it realistic? And I'm like, well, neither has Instagram. And maybe that's kind of something we should just look at the little.

Right. Yeah, sometimes people's version of media literacy is interesting to say the least. I think maybe that was the marketing didn't give them the message they needed. I don't know. But I'm like, I didn't want it to be realistic. Right. Totally. I don't have realism.

It's on my phone that I can't put down and I hate that. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's called fiction for reason. But yeah, I loved it. I'm so glad. Are you a big reader? Do you, I think you've mentioned you read.

I try to read. I do have two small kids, so it's kind of difficult. So I listened to a lot of audiobooks as opposed to being able to sit down quietly with a novel. So the last physical book that I read is I finally got to finish Liz Moore's God of the Woods, which was wonderful. I loved that. And I am currently listening. I just finished, oh my God, I'm not going to remember his name. Richard Osmond, the We Solve Murder.

He does like the Thursday Murder Club. Yes, I can't remember what the new one's called. Yeah. So I just finished that. And I'm actually listening to Slow Horses because I love the show. You too. I think it's incredible. And so I really wanted to kind of, you know, delve into that book series.

So I'm a couple chapters into that right now. And yeah, I don't have a lot of time to read, which is hard. So my audio book time is like I get in bed at me. And that's when my anxiety is like, let's go crazy. And I'm like, let's not. Let's go some of an audio book for like an hour as I kind of wind down. It keeps my brain from being like, what if? Like, no, that's not helpful right now.

Right. Don't do that. I know. It's the worst. Yeah, those are good picks. I love slow horses on Apple. I tried reading them. If you're listening, you probably know that it's told a little differently

than most narration styles and I couldn't get myself into the books but I love the show so much. Yeah. I'm still a little ways into it. I'm really enjoying it. Oh, and of course I'm very, I last year read the new

ton of French that came out, the trespasser, and so I had to go back and check in on some of the old Dublin murder squads that I hadn't read in several years to kind of be like, oh yeah, I want to, I want to reacquaint myself with Frank Mackey, who I think is one of the great speakers.

And so, and then when in doubt, like, if you give me an MCBaton, oh, something to spell, I'm sorry. But like all the Hamish Macbeth and Agatha Raisin, like that British cozy. Yeah. Any Agatha Christie short story, P.D. James short stories, I've listened to every MCBton there is. like there's like a hundred and I've written lists and all of because I just love I love a British Cozade that made me so happy that's good yeah and there are I've seen some good ones coming out recently um where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything uh I have Instagram which is ironic um so it's Elizabeth Rose Quinn author that's it just at Elizabeth Rose Quinn author

and I do have a website, which is Elizabethrosecom, where stuff is updated. I'm so bad at that. My poor publicist was like, you have to make a website. And I was just like, what? I don't want to. So it's kind of that. I'm not very good at TikTok. I watch it, but I can't figure out how to, like, upload things.

It's like I'm such an elder millennial where I'm like, this news is too fast. Yeah. But that's kind of it. And I'll be at Thriller Fest in New York in June. And I'll be a BoucherCon in New Orleans and September. And we're having a book launch here in Albuquerque, New Mexico. So if any of your listeners are in New Mexico, please come to BookWorks on April 2nd. And we're going to have a party.

Yeah, definitely. I hope we do have some there. I will put all those links in the show notes, though. And otherwise, thanks for chatting with me. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. And if you ever just have like a dead week when you want to talk about like Tauna French or how much we hate social media.

You just call me and we can have another. I'm down. Well, I'm going to add you to the co-host roster. Oh, my God. I believe I made out on the co-host roster. I'm so excited.