Bookwild - Emma Dues' Return to Midnight: A Massacre in a Victorian House, Dual Timelines and Ballerinas

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

This week, I talk with Emma Dues about her stunningly creepy debut thriller Return to Midnight! We dive into the inspo for the book, how teaching affects her writing, and the mystery inherent to Victorian mansions.Return to Midnight SynopsisNearly ten years ago, five Ohio university students were murdered in an off-campus Victorian home. The media dubbed it the Midnight House Massacre. Ever since, survivor and novelist Margot Davis has wanted to forget it, and never again utter the killer’s name. Until she’s compelled to write her side of the story. To do that, she’s returning to Midnight House.It’ll be a chance for Margot to reconnect with other survivors, heal the trauma, and dispel the ugly conspiracy theories of obsessed true crime fanatics. But when news of Margot’s book gets out, she receives a threatening note that demands she stop lying. Or else. It chills Margot’s blood. Because she hasn’t been telling the whole truth.As the threats continue, each more sinister than the last, a journalist comes to Margot with new suspicions about that brutal October night. Now, to save her own life, Margot must reveal her well-guarded secrets—ones that, for good reason, she’s been too terrified to share. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

It was around Halloween time, and I was watching a lot of scary movies and, you know, decorating for the season. And I just started thinking just kind of these little bits of ideas of an old Victorian house. I live in an area with a lot of Victorian homes. So that's always an inspiration for me. I just love seeing them and thinking about, you know, what they look like inside and who's there and what's happened there over the years. So I kind of started from there with Halloween details, and I knew there would be some type of murder. This week I got to talk with Emma Do's about her stunning debut thriller Return to Midnight, which I just absolutely devoured. It is so good. It is perfect for spooky season. If you still feel like you're in spooky season, I kind of always feel like I am, but I feel like we can definitely consider November in that.

Here's what it's about. On the anniversary of a savage mass murder, a survivor returns to the scene of the crime and all its buried secrets and a Twitter. novel of suspense. Nearly 10 years ago, five Ohio University students were murdered in an off-campus Victorian home. The media dubbed it the Midnight House Massacre. Ever since, Survivor and novelist Margo Davis has wanted to forget it and never again utter the killer's name, until she's compelled to write her side of the story. To do that, she's returning to Midnight House. It'll be a chance for Margot to reconnect with other survivors, heal the trauma, and dispel the ugly conspiracy theories of obsessed true crime fanatics. But when news of Margot's book gets out, she receives a threatening note that demands she stop lying or else. It chills Margot's blood because she hasn't

been telling the whole truth. As the threats continue, each more sinister than the last, a journalist comes to Margot with new suspicions about that brutal October night. Now, to save her own life, Margo must reveal her well-guarded secrets, ones that, for good reason, she's been too terrified to share. This book is creepy. It is fast-paced. It has an ending that just threw me for a loop. And I just know that you guys are going to love this book as much as I did. That being said, let's hear from Emma. I am so excited to talk about Return to Midnight, but I did want to get to know a little bit about you first. Sure. So when did you know you wanted to be an author or when where you like, I think I have a book I want to write? Yeah, I started writing more seriously in

middle school. I always enjoyed ELA and writing like all through my school years. But where I'm at in Ohio, we had a creative writing team in my middle school called Power of the Pen. And I got super involved with that because of my awesome ELA teacher. And from that point on, it was kind of, you know, a dream of mine to get to be a published author and been writing ever since. Yeah. That's awesome. Thanks. Going back that far and that sounds like a really fun group to be a part of. I'm not going to like that.

It was tons of fun. And I'm a middle school teacher now too. So it's kind of full circle and hoping to start a team at my school next year, which is totally surreal. Yeah. It'll be lots of fun. So you are a middle school. school teacher. Is there any way that like teaching effects or informs your writing? I think I can think of different ways to approach writing instruction. You know, and I'm trying

to teach these kids how to add imagery and dialogue and develop their characters. I think that helps me to think about it on a deeper level, which is interesting. You know, I'll be in class and talking with a student about something and it often inspires me with something I'm working on. And it definitely helps inform my revision process just because thinking about each part on such a deep level with kids kind of helps me to start doing that myself too. Yeah, you're kind of like always in that mindset, basically, since you're teaching it. Yeah, it's really fun. What is your writing process like? Do you like outline? Do you just start going at it? How does that work for you?

Yeah, I'm, I used to be very much just kind of start a project. I'd get sort of a spark of an idea in my head and just go with it. But definitely since, you know, signing with a literary agent and just getting more experienced, I found that outlining helps me a lot. I'll usually start with like a pitch, a really short little synopsis, and then sort of build an outline from there. But definitely as I'm writing, a lot of things change and find their way in there that weren't really there in the outline to begin with. Yeah, kind of like you figure out where you're going and then if it changes a little bit, it's okay. Yeah, oftentimes I feel like the end changes a lot for me. Oh, yeah? Yeah, and then if that happens, you kind of have to work your way back. backwards, especially in thrillers and make sure, you know, the red herrings are there and the

twists are there and kind of rework it from that angle. Yeah, totally. Do you, how do you get to know your characters? Is that kind of like as you write or do you do anything to like just get to know them? Yeah, I usually have a starting point with my protagonist. They're often the most well-developed character from the beginning. I found these like character, worksheets online that I love filling out to just think about their likes and dislikes, what are some of their quirks and habits, which is definitely something I do with at least my main cast of characters, not always the side ones. Yeah.

Yeah, but my writing for me really, I feel like, comes alive in the revisions. So my drafting is very bare bones, just sort of getting the plot details down. And then, you know, as I'm revising, I can think about, you know, what does this character really want? How can I develop this side character a bit more just to see, like, what's needed for the story? Yeah. That makes all the sense. So with return to midnight, what was the initial, like, inspiration for the story? Yeah.

So I started this one back in 2021. At that point, I had just signed with my literary agent, had another book out with her. And it was around Halloween time, and I was watching a lot of scary movies and, you know, decorating for the season. And I just started thinking just kind of these little bits of ideas of an old Victorian house. I live in an area with a lot of Victorian homes. So that's always an inspiration for me. I just love seeing them and thinking. about, you know, what they look like inside and who's there and what's happened there over the

years. So I kind of started from there with Halloween details and I knew there would be some type of murder was somewhat of the inspiration. And eventually it kind of led me to the, sorry, he's getting in the way. He jumps all over everything. So it was sort of of, I was a Chi Omega and a sorority at college. And I, when I got into that sorority, I started looking up some things about it. And I found out about the Ted Bundy Chi Omega murders. And that was kind of the true crime case that sort of had elements that inspired returned to midnight. You know, there's this house of college students and something horrible happens.

So originally I was thinking sorority house and then it kind of switched to ballerinas from there. Yeah. That was going to be my next question was, do you know, what made you feel like doing a horror ballerina version? Yeah. So I was a dancer growing up. I danced from like age three to 18. Okay. Pretty seriously. Yeah, I was in like a pre-professional ballet company in a bunch of ballets every year. Most of my friends were dancers. So it's a big part of me and it's something I still love watching. And I just enjoy it. So I was like, oh, that'd be kind of cool to have, you know, ballerinas in with a thriller book. It's not something that I feel like you see as often. Right.

It's an unexpected group to have involved. So just thought it would be fun to play around with. Yeah. It was fun because it's like I read a lot of thrillers. And definitely aren't tons that focus around like a ballerina friend group. So it was like a fresh like. setting kind of even since like they spend their days differently too yeah um i think i saw i read that you love watching horror movies too um is that part of what drew you to writing horror books

yeah so i when i first started writing i feel like i was very informed by what i was reading um and at the time you know i was just reading like why a sci-fi dystopian um so everything i started writing was kind of in that vein. And I found that my writing was a lot darker than that allowed. Um, you know, it didn't really fit in that genre. And I don't like saying I'm a fan of true crime, but I'm very interested in true crime. Um, right. It's something that I watch a lot and read a lot. Um, and I could kind of combine my interests, um, in thriller writing. Um, so that was kind of how that went. And, you know, I've always enjoyed Halloween and scary movies. And I just enjoy that. feeling of suspense so much. Yeah. Which really works well for these types of books. It does.

The other thing that like really works in it, sorry, I'm getting a hiccup attack. Oh, you're fine. It is, uh, it's like really cinematic. Like your writing's really cinematic. We really like feel everywhere that we are. Like we're like very aware of what it is. Is that like because like, so for you are you having like a big visual when you're writing it as well because it like translates that way for the reader. Thank you. I'm glad it does. I definitely, you know, as I'm drafting, it's very much just action beat points of here's what's happening. And then I get back into those revisions. And I really do have a very clear picture in my head of here's what the setting looks like.

Here's these characters movements. I can see it very clearly. So I try to translate that on the page. like I can still see in my head like what certain rooms of the midnight house look like in my head which is just it's fun I wish it was a real place so I could actually be like here's the picture that you know inspired this piece but yeah it's just somewhat what I imagined yeah it is like it is like I want to go see the midnight house too and it kind of takes place in like a really cute small town Like the cafe at the beginning is really cute. Did you like really want it to be like small town too from the beginning? Yeah.

So I live in a town that's inspired by the small town where Margo and her mom live. I grew up there, moved away, came back when I bought my first house. And I just love that quaint, cozy feeling where the town itself almost becomes a character. That's something I really like to do in my writing. And that's also easy to do, I think, with college campuses just because of, you know, how involved everyone is and how outgoing people are trying to be and the cute, you know, the local bar and the bookshop and all those things. And the college campus in return to midnight is inspired by Miami University in Ohio, which is where I went to college. So it's been fun. People who have read and also are familiar with the campus are like, oh, I know what you're referencing here.

That sounds familiar. Yeah, it's been really neat. Yeah, so part of it takes, or timeline-wise, part of it takes place when they're in college, and then part of it is taking place years after. So when you were writing it, did you write it linear? Did you write it the way that we read it? Or did you, like, write the past and then write the future? I kind of wrote them side by side. So I would actually have two documents up. And there were times where I was going back and forth. But definitely towards the end of the past timeline, I stayed in that document for a long time because, you know, the chapters are happening very quickly after each other within minutes. So I tried to keep it consistent. But when there was a bigger block of time, you know, I'd kind of go back to the present and try to find ways for what was happening in the present to mirror what was happening in the past. Yeah. that is that's I love when that happens like throughout present and past timelines because I think it's also like like a little bit of a nod to the fact that the things that happen to us in the

past are sometimes like repeating in the future or in our present so yeah I would like that it's a good foreshadowing device it's the type of book that I like to read so it's what I like to write too yeah totally did you so the reveals At the end, did you, with this one, did you know who is behind everything? Or did you surprise yourself as you were writing it? So it started with I knew. And then I somewhat surprised myself towards the end of my first draft. Yeah.

I did a switch with, you know, who the big bad guy was at the very end. I kind of, you know, part of it stayed the same. But at the end, I was like, it would make more sense if this was somewhat what was behind it and I added that in and I'm glad it worked because at that point you know my editor had already accepted the version that was a different way and as I was writing I was like oh you know what I think this would be a little more hard hitting so we changed it she liked it so that's good that's good yeah stuck um but without getting into spoilers the the explanation for everything that's happening is like one that like freaks me out so much

much. Did you ever freak yourself out while you were writing? Yeah. Without giving spoilers away, that element is something I've had a lot of reoccurring dreams about in my life. I don't know why. It's just something I grew up in an old Victorian home. And so I think maybe that's part of it. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely creep myself out with that. And as I was writing it, we had just moved into our new home. And we didn't have blinds on our windows at the time. For a long time, we didn't. So it was one of those things that was like we just put off buying them and installing them. And so a lot of times at night I glance over my shoulder, worried that something was there.

Oh, my gosh. I know. That's like the only thing. Sometimes like in general, I feel like I can read a scary book like going to them. But then sometimes you're like so into it. And I was talking to someone about I was reading this. when my husband was on a work trip. So there are a couple of times where I was like,

I'm just going to switch to a comedy podcast so that I can fall asleep. Yeah, that's probably smart. Yeah, like you just don't need it like in your mind as you're falling asleep in your house alone. Oh, yeah, no. Definitely not. I think sometimes I love when a book can stick with me like that, but also, yeah, not when you're alone or already feeling nervous. Yeah.

Yeah. So our house like creaks more. and especially like during the fall, winter, when there are more storms or whatever. And one of our dogs, like, barks at every sound that he hears. So, like, sometimes, like, especially when I'm alone and he just, like, wakes up at 3 a.m. And it's just, like, barking toward the hallway. I'm like, what are you barking at? That's so scary.

And it's, like, always when I'm reading a scary movie or reading a scary movie, reading a scary book. And I'm like, you've got to chill out. You don't have to bark at every single sound that you hear. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I grew up with four dogs, so I'm very familiar. I'm glad I have cats now. They don't do that, but they do random noises in the night and knock things over a lot. So, yeah.

Our older dog, she's like 12. We feel like she turned into a cat because she gets like nighttime zoomies. Like we're all ready to go to sleep and all of a sudden she's like running around lately and wanting to go out at like three in the morning. I'm like, what is happening? Like, are you a cat in her now? Yeah, she's just chilling behind me. So I also saw you in your acknowledgments that you thanked your sister for watching dance moms and pretty little liars what you did while you would write.

Are those, I could see how they are. Did those like inspire any parts of the story then too? Yeah, those were both shows that I grew up watching. And then my sister and I have like a five-year-old. age gap. So I was watching those shows way before she could. And later, you know, in my teen years, I would go back and rewatch those with her once she was old enough. So I think the, you know, somewhat toxic friend group that doesn't make the wisest decisions, I feel like Pretty Little Liars is definitely an inspiration for that dynamic. Yeah. It's a show that, you know,

as cheesy as it is, I love it. And it was one of the first, like, suspenseful, like, at the time, I found it very frightening shows. Yeah. I still remember the episode where they found the necklace with teeth on it. And I stopped watching it for a long time after that because it freaked me out. But yeah, that definitely. And then with dance moms, it was fun because a lot of the experiences on that show mirrored a lot of my experiences in the dance world, you know, with some not so nice teachers

and the cattyness. And yeah, that definitely I could see a connection in this book as well. well. Yeah, that's, that's cool, like the little things that stick with you from like what you loved when you're a kid. Oh, yeah. So at the end, I've been asking everyone if they've read anything that they love lately. So have you read anything? What's the last thing I've read? I haven't been reading a ton lately just because of life. I'm a teacher, so I'm teaching three different ELA classes right now. I'm glancing at my bookshelf. What am I reading? Oh, I read the last thriller I finished was The Taken Ones by Jess Laurie.

Oh, yeah. I love her. I love all her thrillers. That one was really exciting. And very slow burn detective twists and turns and the reveal in that one, that was one that stuck with me. That one creeped me out. I was reading it late at night and I had a similar experience of like, I need to put this down and switch over to a cowboy romance for a little bit.

Right. Yeah. It's creepy. I know. I need to read that. Like, I have multiple friends who think I should read that series. I just haven't yet. I've read the first.

I have the second one on my shelf behind me. I need to get to it. Yeah. So many things to read and so many to write. Never enough time. Yeah, never. Well, where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything? Yeah, I'm at E G-D-D-U-E-S on TikTok and Instagram primarily.

My website's linked on both of those as well, so you can see upcoming events and things like that. Yeah, I will put that in the show notes. And otherwise, thanks so much for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me.