Bookwild - Female Leads Who Could Take on Gilead

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

We are back this week to talk about our favorite female characters we think could take on Gilead with June (The Handmaid's Tale).Follow us on Instagram:Garehttps://www.instagram.com/gareindeedreads/Katehttps://www.instagram.com/thegirlwiththebookonthecouch/Books We Talked About This WeekBlood EchoAll the Dark PlacesUgly LoveToo LateGone GirlThey Never LearnWhite IvyNever Saw Me ComingNice GirlsThe Snow GardenThe Secret HistoryThe Last HousewifeTV Shows We Talked About This WeekThe Handmaid’s TaleWestworldLookingYellowstoneHomelandHouse of CardsMad MenHow to Get Away with MurderLaw & Order SVUMovies We Talked About This WeekGone GirlThe PledgeCruel IntentionsScream Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hey guys, welcome to the Killing the Tea podcast. This is Gare and Kate. And we are going to be discussing all things, chills, thrills, and kills. Kate and I are going to be talking about our favorite books, TV shows and movies that are in the thriller or crime fiction genre, as well as some reading habits and other items related to how we met on Bookstagram that will fit in with this podcast. So, Thank you so much for joining us, and we hope that you have fun and get totally terrified. So. So we both finished The Inmate's Tale this week. We have an icebreaker? We don't have an icebreaker. That's the icebreaker. I don't have an icebreaker.

I guess I could. Hmm. What about like a reading corner? Like, what are you reading? Well, I am reading, I'm still reading Blood Echo. I didn't finish a single book last week. So I got 60% going on. I know, I did. So I'm still like literally reading the same thing I was reading a week ago, but I love it. I did get to like 75% today. So good. There's so many things going on. I love how many things are going on.

Is Blood Echo, what's the, what's the premise of that one? I always get books two and three confused. Yeah, I could imagine. This one, like, starts off with her going after a really bad guy who likes to turn human skin into leather. That's the first guy in that one. But then, like, that's over in the first, like, 15%. So book three, I think, is going to be your favorite. Because I don't want to spoil anything.

And it's not even, I just remember it being very cinematic in the beginning of the third one. because of the case that it is. And I was like, oh my God, this is something that we've discussed on here that I'm like, you know, and nothing against it. A lot of thrillers are trying to be anti-stereotypes when it comes to what you think a serial killer is or could be. And, you know, sometimes like you want that almost like lifetime movie experience of being like, can it just for once be the creepy janitor?

Right. Like I want to know it's the creepy janitor. So, yeah, there's some stuff coming up there. I'm trying to be more organized. I requested a lot in the past month on NetGalley, but you know how sometimes a book might come out in January or February, like publication date, but then on NetGalley, they'll archive it like a month or two earlier.

Yeah. So I went and I looked and I was like, listen, like, whatever I got approved for, I need to pay attention to the archive date. Yeah. I was approved for a thriller called All the Dark Places by Terry Parlato. And it is about a couple who lives in Boston. And, you know, it's very snowy in January. And they're celebrating his birthday.

And everybody, like, their friends come over. They all celebrate, have a great time. And then the next morning he's found murdered. Of course. But like, I mean, it's kind of one of those things where like everybody who was at the party had already left. Like, who killed him. It's very atmospheric and creepy and I love the cover. I have it right here.

I purposely brought it with me because I got a proof for it on NetGalley. And I was going to start it this week. Forgot to charge my Kindle was super bummed because I had to wait for my Kindle to charge. Got the mail. And here it was. So I was like, this is a sign that I need to start all the dark. places. I'm obsessed with this cover. It is so amazing. I love that. I read 25 pages last night. Last night I did not feel well. I thought for a second I had like a stomach bug. Yeah. But then I realized

that you cannot survive on like one mini scone and like six ounces of water in a day apparently. So it was basically my own doing. But yeah, I read about 50 pages after I got done work today. you know, went and got my subway. Yes. Read some of this. Something insane and creepy, creepy, creepy just happened in it. And I was like, oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

So I'm loving it. It's like multiple POV, the detective, the wife of the murdered doctor, full cast, but like introducing me to like 15 characters and 20 pages, but I'm able to keep track of all of them. You know, like, everybody is standing out. And, yeah, it's just like a really fun police procedural psychological thriller. I'm actually very, I don't know if this is, I don't think this is her first book. She was raised in upstate New York, so I'm very curious to know where she's from.

Whoa, that's cool. But I, I'm not sure if it's her first book or not, but I'm really enjoying the multiple POV. because I think she's doing a really good job of writing a woman whose husband was just murdered. Like, she's not immediately like, I need to go find out who did this and like having no emotion whatsoever. Yeah, your average person is probably not going to do that. No, no, your average. And I think she's like the, I think the woman works at like a bookstore. So it's not like she's going to go from like bookstore to like vigilante.

No, no. But if she does, I'll still read it. However, it's very good. At first she wouldn't. very normal response to going from like my husband was murdered when I was sleeping and now my house is a crime scene and then returning to the house after like the police. It's just very good. It's very well written. It's under 300 pages which just, um, you know, I think that I'm really enjoying it so far. So hopefully I continue to enjoy it. That is so fun. But you read, you read a coho book

in one day this weekend. Is that what I saw? I read too late by Coho. I, Sunday, I won't say which ones they were, but I tried to start three books on Sunday. None of them were hitting. Like, nothing was happening. And I was like, the last time I experienced this was in, I believe, September, I read Ugly Love by Colleen Hoover. And like, it completely got me out of that reading slump. So I just sucked it up, cut a couple of books off my list. And it was like, I'll revisit these if I'm in the mood for them. I picked up a book called Too Late by Colleen Hoover and something about it like drew me to that because it's not always the one that people most recommend by her. Yeah, I'd never heard of that one. That's kind of what I noticed about it.

Yeah. And there's there's like a forward from her in the beginning of the book that's like, this is the darkest book I've ever written. Oh. It was something she never planned on publishing. she just kind of had this story in her head and like posted a couple of chapters for free on her website, I guess, like back in the day. And people were like, I want to read this book. I want to read this book. And she finished it. Like, I think it was kind of an e-copy only.

And then eventually they, she turned it into an actual physical book because people loved it so much that they wanted to have a physical copy of it. Wow. But it was the darkest book. Yeah, even for you? Even for me. Wow. A lot of trauma. I usually forget to do this because I suck sometimes.

Like, a lot of trigger warnings don't affect me the way they do other people. Unless it's like animal violence. Yep. I don't like to read about, like, violence against children. I mean, I will read books that have violence against children, but I can see why that's another one that I'll usually warn people about. But with this one, I was like, I remember to. put in my review on Instagram. Like, there are trigger warnings.

You can slide into my DMs or look them up yourself. But yeah, it was very dark. But something about the way she writes the story, I just could not put it down. And I read it in one day. So thank God for Coho for always being there for me on a Sunday. Saving your reading songs. Don't know what to read. Yeah.

Yeah, you and like tons of other people too, I bet. Yeah, because I also read, um, on Saturday, I devoured the personal assistant by Kimberly Bell. I don't have that one yet. I want to. It's getting such good reviews. I loved it. I loved it.

Oh, that's so fun. I love her. And I need you to read it because I did not skim at all. I read word for word because I loved it so much. There was like one thing that I just was like, I think it was left to your imagination or I had missed something. So like I'm dying to talk to you about it. So that will be fun.

We have to get it. Because I think it's what, November 29th? Is that what it is? Is it that soon? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. It's one of the books that's holding my laptop up right now.

I for some reason thought it was like January. So that's exciting. No, I think it's November 29th. Nice. Because that's why I read it this month. That's, yep, you're right. You're right. Cool.

Yeah, it was good. It was really good. It was a really good weekend for reading two books. I perfected what I consider like my skincare routine that works for my type of skin, which just feels amazing to have the products in my hand that I love. So if anybody's looking for a really good cleanser, the Tacha, I think it's called the gentle right. cleanser, but it's like the tube, it's the purple one. I tried using the green one, and it's more of an exfoliant, and it was so rough on my skin, I broke out. But the gentle... From exfoliation? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's because I shave. Oh, yeah. My skin's already like a little,

yeah, like, skin's already like a little like sensitive. And then if I put an exfoliant on it, it's like, what are you doing to me, you know? Taking me through the ringer. Is it called the deal? The deep cleanse. That's in a green tube. That's the one that did not work for me. Oh, okay, that one has the gentle exfoliating cleanser. Okay, you're right. So we're, yeah, rice wash, the soft cream cleanser. Amazing. There we go. That, I mean, that sounds nice. Amazing. It's a little pricey. It's like 30 something a tube, but I feel like that's not too bad for the Tacha brand or skincare in general. And then for the, because the winter is officially here and it's like 30 degrees. It is here. Yeah. My skin is getting dry. So I use this really thick moisturizer by the ordinary.

Mmm. And it's like $10. But it's fantastic. So I've been wanting to try. You know how glossier do you get those ads for their balm? Like everyone loves their balm and I've never tried it. But they have like such a yummy scents. So I'm almost convinced because I get I'm getting hang nails because my skin's getting dry. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I 100% believe in treating yourself when it comes to skincare, but also in the winter because for me like in the summer, I can put on whatever moisturizer as long as it's not thick and that's fine because I normally have like pretty greasy skin. Yeah. Yeah. This moisturizer and this

skincare duo. I'm just killing it. That's the best. I love finding that stuff. And I got pizza hot. That sounds so good right now. I must be a little bit hungry. I got, you know what the thing is? I was like a big fan of like pan pizza until the last time I had it and my body was like

you are 35 now. You cannot eat pan. You cannot eat pan pizza because way too greasy for you. And I like woke up at like 3 o'clock in the morning and had really bad heartburn and had to take like tombs. Oh, that's the worst. I tried their hand toss and I was a man obsessed. That's good to know. Yeah.

Yeah, it was very good. Very impressed. Pizza Hut. Oh my gosh. I love pizza so much. I love their stuffed crust pizza. That was our fate. I have not had that in like 15 years.

Yeah, I've had it a lot in the last 15 years. So good. Yeah, it's amazing. There was one, I was in an apartment right after college, and there was one like a couple miles away. We ate a lot of it. Good days. I'm a big fan.

I actually really love Dominoes. I'm a big Domino's person, but there is like not one, I mean, I think the closest one's like 45 minutes to an hour away from me. Yeah, that's not close. Unless I go to Canada. Then it's only 50. 15, 20 minutes away from me. So.

Well. Oh, Canada. Oh, Canada. Here I come. So, speaking of Canada. It's hilarious. You are a genius. So we both are.

Yeah. Why don't you do the honor of telling everybody what we're going to be discussing on today's episode because I was completely obsessed with this idea. And when you said it, I was like in full preparation mode in regard to just having all of my ducks in a row. Yes. All of your female leads in a row. Oh my God. Yeah. It's like my literary version of the Spice Girls. It is. Wait, did you do books? Because that'll be interesting because I did TV shows. I did books. Nice. So we'll have some variety. This will be actually really cool then. Yeah. That actually works really well.

Yeah. I still have we someone told the people if they haven't guessed already, but we are going to talk a little bit about the Handmaid's Tale because both of us finished that this week. And then our hour, I don't know why I can't say that word. Our favorite, hopefully just five, but who knows how many will end up saying. Our favorite female leads or strong female. leads. So we'll see if we can keep it to five each. So yeah, I think in my mind, when I heard characters, I just immediately thought books. Yeah. I had in my mentality the women who could either survive or take down Gilead. I like that. I love that. That is exactly like what I was just like, I need my band of baddies to just come through. That is pretty much. I picked if I'm, now that I'm looking at it. So I would agree.

Take down. I actually was wondering too, because there's two, because there's two, possibly three. Okay, so I had six. Because I remembered one little nugget. And I was like, no way, can I leave her out of my, like, Gilead Spice Girl crew here? But yeah, I'm very curious to hear your TV characters because there's one in particular

that I would choose. but I think you're too young. You think I'm too young. We'll only five years younger. I think you're too young. Okay. I believe you then. I think you're too young, but you kick it off.

You kick it off, girl. Well, I guess what I will say is, one, I always love Handmaid's Tale. Always. Every single season, I'm like, wow, this is great TV. And this season, I felt like 100% convinced that it's one of those few, perfect TV shows out there. So I have some pretty strong feelings about it. It always wrecks me like every single season and I'm still like more please.

And it did it again. So you can definitely go into that prepared for that. I also, what I really loved about this season is I felt like there was a really big focus on that quote that's like when when, when, trying to defeat monsters and make sure you don't become one yourself. And it felt like that was like the through line of that whole season. And I felt like they kept like bits of that in every single episode. And I really loved it.

I can't say anything. I can't top that. Done. Have a good night. So I agree with everything you said. I was one of the people who began to feel a little burnt out from the show toward the end of season three and throughout a few episodes of season four where I felt like at the end of season four when this season five came out, I was like, I'm going to check it out. If I fall off,

I fall off. And if I finish it, I finish it. And I had talked to a couple of other people who felt very similar. And we're just like, oh, like, you know, I don't know if I'm going to watch watch it. Watch it. Yeah. Because I was one of those people that was like, I kind of felt like at some, At certain points, I got it. I understood what was going on. I was following it and I knew why it was happening, but there were a few times where June had completely infuriated me. And there were a few times in the show where I was like,

are they just having her do things that I can't picture her doing just to have the show be 10 episodes long instead of five or six. Right, right, right. But this one I completely just captivated. Yeah. I call it, this is like my like guaranteed reads like stamp of approval is like this season was the show that I watched without picking up my phone. Yes, I agree. Like I was like, I can't, I'm not looking at anything.

Sometimes, you know, you know what it is. Sometimes you're watching a show and you're. you text your friends back or you're scrolling through Instagram when something kind of like slows down in the pacing. There was none of that this season. And you know what the funny thing is? I can tell that you also had that stamp of approval because the past week for no reason other than us catching up on Handmaid's Tale. Like we were not, we were talking every day, but not as often throughout the day because we were like finishing up Handmaid's Tale. Yes. Oh, it's so good.

Yeah, it completely captures your attention. Yeah. And you're going to, you won't know what's happening if you stop paying attention. That's like another part of it. There was nothing. It was, I feel like it was very action-packed. There was nothing that I was like, I can take a break to go get a snack or go fill my water bottle. Like, it's like, I have to pause the things to do whatever I'm thinking of doing.

Yes. Yeah. I literally saved it for when Tyler was out of town so that I could watch it. as uninterrupted as possible. Yeah. So good. So good. It's my favorite season on the show so far.

Yeah. I think it's my favorite. Season two is, I remember season two being really powerful as well, the ending at least. But this one was really fantastic. There's one character who was unlikable.

Well, I think there were multiple. There's one character. okay, I guess I should say there's one character who's unlikely that I'm thinking of. Oh, yeah. That the actress that plays her did such an incredible job

that there was no redeeming qualities about her other than the fact that the actress did such a good job that I wanted to find something likable about her just because the actress did fantastic. And I'm talking about Aunt Lydia. Yep. 100%. Her performance is stunning.

finale. There's a scene in the finale where I was like, I feel bad for you and I know that I should not. Yep. Incredible. If I ever see that actress in public, I'm just probably going to get teary-eyed and hug her and just be like, I love you. You are the reason, you are the reason that, you know, how well somebody acts is just as important as how well somebody writes a character. So important. Because, yeah, you're not on her side at any. point. You never feel like you're on her side. And that's not even a spoiler. The other hallmarks of the show is it makes you feel everyone's feelings whether you're on their side or not. It's amazing. Like even when I when I finished watching it, I was telling Tyler, I was like, every time I watched that show, I am like, you can do so much with all of your

characters. Every single character can be like real and even at odds with the other characters. but if they feel real, like, you're willing to watch the scenes. The acting in that show, even if it's somebody that you don't like, the character is awful, somebody on that show with their acting capabilities can do something small enough, like, blink at the right time and you just want to burst into tears. Yeah. It's totally true. Or, like, move their eyebrow and you're like, oh, my God.

I'm going to fall apart. Yeah. or just completely kill like one line of dialogue. It's incredible. Yes. So Ann Dowd is the actress who plays Aunt Lydia. And I just, I wanted to look up her name because I remember she was nominated for an Emmy as a supporting actress in the first season. Didn't think there's any way she would win against the competition.

And so she didn't go. And then she won it. And then like was like crying online was like, I didn't even think that like, I didn't think there was any way. that like I should fly over for this and she won it back then she had she like really brings that character to life it's very impressive yeah yeah I mean I always am like very very I pay more attention to supporting actors and actresses because those are always the ones that like kind of surprised me or I feel like kind of get glanced over like let's be honest the past two three years, like, I knew

Zendaya was going to win best lead at the Emmys. Right. Yeah. Because nobody has that talent. Nobody's touching that. Especially at, like, 22, 23 years old. I know. So, I knew that. But, yeah, Ann Dowd deserves

another nomination this year. She does. She really does. It's so impressive. The guy who plays Bradley Whitford, who played Joseph Lauren who plays Joseph Lawrence. He plays him so well, too.

Ivan Strahsky. Yeah. Oh my. Yeah. Now we can just list everyone. Yeah. But it is. It's everyone. That is part of what pulls it together. Or a big part of it. Is that girl?

There's a young girl, the blonde. Is it Kiernan and Shipka? Is she in that? Are you talking about the one who's kind of friends with Janine this season? Yeah. Let me look. Esther, her name's McKenna Grace. McKenna, great. Okay, so McKenna Grace and Kiernan and Shipka look exactly alike. She always reminds me to someone.

But McKenna Grace is powerful in the show. She is incredible. Yeah, she kills it. So that would be our theme. Oh my gosh. They are the same person, though. They really are. Right. Kieran and Shepka, I think, is Sabrina. she's like the new Sabrina from whoever

did the Riverdale Yeah Netflix Yeah I think it's the same creators of Riverdale though I think it's like the same universe Yeah

Yeah Yeah I'm just kicking stuff now You're like I said what I said So yeah so that's our theme Just bad ass women Who could take

down and destroy Gilead. Or at least could be a part of like May Day or any of the organizations taking them down. Incredible. Incredible. It was such a good, such a good

decision. I was so proud of my little Kate's great. I mean, you added the second part. It was a team effort. I did not anything. No, I did not. No, I did. You came up with the idea and I was like, oh my God, I got to get my list started.

This is all you. This is all you. And this isn't just me because I was actually listening to the episode that we recorded when I was like, oh my God, this was such a good idea. And you're like, okay, what was your idea? I'm reading the DM that you sent me with this idea. So, but no, this, this was all you. I just, I'll take credit. I just, I just made my list and went with it. Yeah. So who's your first, who's your first lady? So. So, So this one is my, I would venture to say, favorite female protagonist of all TV. But I don't think you've watched it.

And it is Dolores from Westworld. One of the coolest characters ever in so many ways. Like some of it is because, like, the show is so into, like, what is consciousness and, like, what makes us real? So like some of it is the writing is always good. But she is the biggest, baddest bitch in all of TV. And I am obsessed with her. And I am literally in mourning over the facts that they were supposed to give us a fifth season and canceled it.

So. Such bullshit. Things are rough, but I really love Dolores still. That show was super hyped and also had like a insane cast and everything. And I was really surprised to hear that. it was canceled after four seasons. I don't understand how it happened, honestly. Like, it is, like, everyone was tweeting this season. Like, I don't feel like it, like, dropped off. I have no clue where that came from. You know what? The thing is, too, that really sucks is

HBO's, like, done this before. Yeah. When it's, like, a one-season show, I kind of get it. Right. But when you, when you create a fan base because you gave viewers four seasons, you deserve something. So I also, watched the show called Looking. Mm-hmm. And it was about like a group of gay men in San Francisco who were like friends. It was kind of like a more like updated like gay man sex in the city show, I guess. And after season two, it got canceled.

And HBO got a lot of heat for it. So they like made a looking movie to wrap up everyone's storyline. Okay. So maybe. Maybe they'll do that for us. What I will say is it's, not like it ended on what you would call like a complete cliffhanger.

Okay. So there's at least that that can kind of make us feel a little bit better. Like the ending was kind of just like it was like it's one of those shows where definitely, I mean that happens on a lot of shows but where like each season there very much is like just one thing

like one big boss thing that's happening kind of like a video game. And so it's like she did defeat the problem of that season, but like also you could still wrap up some other stuff. So thankfully it wasn't like the big, like it wasn't like we thought someone was, we didn't know if someone was alive or something. But I'm still so sad. So terrible. But she's awesome. She reminds me of she would, she would be really great with June. Is that Evan Rachel Wood? Yes, that's Evan Rachel Wood. I also love

her. She's, yeah, she's really good. She's really good. She's great on podcast, too. I just, man, that sucks. That was one of those shows that I was like, maybe, like, one day I'll get into that. What I will say is you really could. So, like, if you really are ever wanting a show, you could still, if you knew the end was the end in season four, you'd be like, okay. Like, that's cool.

So you still could if you ever just, like, have so much time on your hands. I think Exactly Yeah I can imagine It's going to jump To the top of your list Maybe on season 84 of our podcast

When I finally have time of hands Like after I retire And everything We're just in a home together Catching up on TV shows Oh my God Now I'm really looking forward to that That would be really fun

Give us our sweatshirts Craig they see Yes Well mine I guess I guess I'll fall into mine because mine is a book character who is the book was adapted into a movie and she's the baddest bitch of bad bitches. Well, we're both saying that now. But yours is the baddest of TV book adaptations. Yeah, well, movie.

Amy Dunn. Yes. Yes. That's why I figured. It's where I thought was ahead. Amy Dunn. If anyone could be toxic enough to outmaneuver the men of Gilead, it would be her. Amy Dunn would leave ashes and that's it.

Yeah. My girl, Amy, would just completely crushed Gilead. She really would. She'd probably beat the shit out of June, too, because when June makes those, like, irrational decisions that were like, well, this is good for the show, but, like, I don't think that this woman would actually do this. Like, she would be, like, backhanding June. she actually Amy Dunn would beat the shit out of everybody in the show I was saying

and you just have a bone to pick with June you just do sometimes I do I want what's I want it's you know what it is it's kind of like you know how you have those friends that always ask you for advice and then you give them the advice and the next day they're like

yeah don't get me wrong sometimes I am that friend we all are that's June to me it's that friend that like you're like, you know, like when you're watching a scary movie, like, honey, run to the neighbors. Don't run upstairs. Don't run to your basement to hide.

Like, run. But June would be like, oh, I have this brilliant idea. I'm going to run up the stairs. But I'm going to try to climb out my bedroom window and like shimmy down my like rain, whatever. What's that called? It was called it a rain. Drain pipe, I think. I was called it a rain drain, but that didn't make much sense.

But like, yeah. I mean, it would be like, June's like, I'm not going to run out the front door. going to run upstairs, shimmy down that thing, and then, like, try to, like, escape somebody. Meanwhile, the killer actually went out the front door and is, like, standing there waiting for her. Then she has to climb back up. I want what's best for her, but she just, you're yelling at your TV and girl June is not listening. No, she's not. She does what she thinks she should. Or she acts impulsively based on her.

anger. Yep. Well, that would be why I probably don't have a problem with her then. I guess I also, listen, like, I would not, I get it. Trust me, like, I get it. But I also, I'm not a woman. So I'm like, I would not make that decision if I were a woman in that position, but I also don't know what it would be like to fear being a woman in that position. Just all the time, yeah. Yeah, so, but I, listen, I still, I root for all women and I root for June, but she just sometimes doesn't make the best decisions. Yeah, you're not wrong. But I still love her and I still don't want to see anything bad happen to her. No, we've got to get Hannah.

We've got to. So I've been waiting for it from the beginning. Yep. We'll get there. Yeah. Next season is the last season. It is. I'm glad. I do think it's time. I didn't need to be an eight, nine, ten episode or ten season show. Could you imagine? Not Amy Dunn. I know that that's impossible. But could you imagine if you turn on your TV like a year from now and you're watching the premiere and like Rosamund Pike pops into fucking.

Yeah. And Dave's tale. This could be able to be like me being psychic. I don't think she would. It could be. I don't know, but. We'll have to see. hopefully someone listens and makes it happen for us. Hey guys, I hope you enjoyed part one of this episode. If you did, make sure that you come back on Thursday for part two.

And don't forget to stay up to date with everything that we're reading and talking about on our Instagrams at Gare Indeed reads and at The Girl with the book on the couch. Links are also in the show notes. So make sure you follow.