Halley's Egypt Trip, Books We've Loved, Strange Darling, Oddity & The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives
00:07Our bookish world traveler has returned to the U.S. Hallie Sutton's here this week.Hello. I'm so happy to be back with you.I know. I am so excited. I was like every time you posted something, I was like a Taylor Swift fan.I was like, ooh, what are all the pictures mean?I know. And I have like 6,000 pictures from my trip. And that's like only slightly exaggerated.And I'm trying to figure out, I think I, I think I might try.to like put together like a digital scrapbook with some commentary about stuff and then that wayi can kind of be like if you're interested you can look here versus me being like i don't know what
00:50that would be cool yeah i would look through it watch for that maybe in a future howley saidnewsletter yeah i'm excited so it looked like you had a pretty good time like it looks like you wereyou were having fun so i have the most amazingtime. So this was a trip of a lifetime. I went to Egypt and Jordan and I saw many of thehighlights of Egypt. I definitely want to go back. I think one place that like is really intriguingto me is Alexandria and I didn't get to go there. And that's, you know, founded by Alexander thegreat has like where Cleopatra most likely had her palace, the famous library of Alexandria thatburned just like a seed of a lot of like old ancient world thing. So here's the thing.
01:42I don't know if you know about me, but I was obsessed with ancient Egypt as a kid.My favorite book that I read as a kid was a book called Mara Daughter of the Nile byEloise Jarvis McGrath. And it's just this like great historical. I mean, they say somepretty slanderous thing about things about Egypt's first female pharaoh, which I'm like from a2024 lens I don't love, but I loved that book. I wanted to be an Egyptologist until I figured outthere was like no jobs for it. I mean, there are jobs, but like I don't, wasn't going to be me.And so this was really like the trip. And I saw the movie The Mummy like 17 times in theaters.And that's only, I don't, that may not be an exaggeration actually. Like I was a significant.
02:29chunk of the box office. So going to Egypt is something I have always wanted to do.I felt very lucky to get to do it. I went with my parents. So it was really wonderful to experiencethat. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, to experience that trip of a lifetime with them too. So I have a fewlittle highlights to share if that's cool. Go for it. Okay. So first thing I will say iswe chose an aggressive time of year to go.We got there August 26th and left September 10th.And in Cairo, which is where I flew into,it was like 100 degrees.
03:11Yeah, but it'll, don't worry, it'll get hotter as the story progresses.So flew into Cairo.I got to see this beautiful mosque that was, you know,dated to the 12th century.I saw the pyramids.I wrote a camel.I saw the Great Spinks.There's several pictures of me looking very frightened on a camel because the camel and I
03:31not copacetic, you know?Oh, no.Just very, but like very cool.They're amazing animals.They're so weird looking, too.It's like, what's this like horse that had sex with an ostrich thing, you know?Yes.So we're in Cairo for a few days.
03:49Excuse me.I'm sorry.I'm having allergies.Oh, you're fine.Me too.It's the time of year when Los Angeles is on fire.so there's just weird stuff in the air constantly.So then we were in Cairo for a few days, flew down to Luxor, which is the ancient city of Thebes.
04:09And that's kind of really at the Nile Delta.So it's like we were in the greater Sahara kind of next to you with Cairo.And then you move kind of into like the lush valley of the Nile.So everything's green, looks very oasis.And in Luxor,it was 115 degrees.So that was pretty brutal,especially because it's not like you're walking around and doing stuff.
04:34You know,you're climbing through these beautiful ancient temples that are 3,500 years oldand just sweating, just like dripping sweat.So I won't go through the entire tripbecause we would be here for the next 14 hours.But a few of the highlights that I wanted to share was,I got to go to the Valley of the Kings,which is the ancient burial site for many of the pharaohs.
05:00And so when I was there, I saw King Tut face to face, which was pretty crazy because they lefthim in the valley of the kings.It was crazy.It was amazing.And he's buried in this tiny little, his burial chamber was tiny because he was, I think,only 19 when he died.So they didn't expect him to die.So they didn't build his whole, they didn't get to build his whole beautiful tomb.
05:22but there's also speculation that he was assassinated.And so part of that is that like the person who succeeded him,which was his high priest,took what was going to be his burial tomb.He married his widow and he was like,and I'm king now.So it doesn't paint a great picture of.No.
05:46No.So that was amazing.I know, right?And so portats on face to face still looking good.You know, 3,000 years old looking pretty good.Maybe needs a little moisturization, but maybe not.And then we went to, so in the Valley of the Kings, like one of the most preserved tombs is this Sedi the First.And Setti the First was the father of Ramsey's the Great, who is kind of like, if you know one Pharaoh, that's probably who you know.
06:16He's biblically, he's the Pharaoh who is Pharaoh with Moses.he was called the builder.He built a bunch of the, like, great temples and different things that are still standing today.He also lived to be 91, which is fucking nuts, considering ancient Egypt.Yeah.So, yeah, so this is his father.I'm not kidding, Kate.So you go down like 300 steps down into the earth.
06:44No air conditioning, obviously.That's me being facetious, but there's no ventilation.So it's really hot down there.And it's just like I have lived in almost every apartment I've ever lived in has been smaller than this burial chamber.That is just like five or six different massive rooms.Everywhere you look, there's carvings and hieroglyphics.And it would have been filled like to the roof with the treasure that he would need in the afterlife.So it would just be like golden chariots, his crowns, all of this stuff there that's all been looted and robbed.
07:20It was incredible.Yeah.So that was like a life-changing experience for me, getting to see that.I would probably have died of Kasma.Yeah, it was, and my dad did get a little bit of heat stroke coming back up from that one because it was so brutal.Yeah, he got a little sick, which was not great.But he's fine, listeners.But yeah.
07:45And so then after the Valley of the Kings, we went over and saw Queen Hachepsut's Temple.She was the first female pharaoh in Egypt.Basically, so Egypt had a custom of, no better way to say it, but incest, of half-brothers andhalf-sisters would marry each other, basically to consolidate the power line.So she's married to her half-brother.They have children.Her half-brother dies.She becomes the queen regent for her son, who's like two.
08:16And then basically is like, you know what?I think I should rule.And actually they had a very prosperous, peaceful reign under Queen Hatschepsut.But when her successor came of age, he like chiseled her face and name off of everything.So her temple is one of the few places where you can still see like the glory of her reign and what she wanted for herself.And she's the only woman to be buried in the Valley of the Kings because future female queens orpharaohs were all buried in the Valley of the Kings.I'm sorry, Valley of the Queens.
08:48So she's buried in the Valley of the Kings has this massive temple.And she's buried like underneath the temple into the rock side.Just the feats of engineering were really crazy.So then we traveled further south down the Nile, which was such a dream to be, you know, Agatha Christieing it up on, you know, on a Nile boat.We stopped at one temple that was dedicated to Sobeck, who was the,The crocodile god is also kind of the god of like physicians and health care.But what that meant was that in the temple itself and ancient Egypt, they always kept a live crocodile being like the living version of the god.So just like in the middle of the temple, there's a live crocodile.
09:34And we know this because there's a bunch of mummified crocodiles that they found buried behind the temple.So you go into this museum next to the temple and there's just all these ancient mummified crocodiles.How crazy is that?That is wild.I know crocodiles were mummified anywhere.I didn't either.It was amazing.So that was the temple of Comombo, which was really cool.
09:58Yeah.So that was amazing.Yeah.And then one last thing I want to share about Egypt, which again, I could talk about this for days,but I'm trying to just hit some of the highlights.We flew back.So we flew all the way.We took the boat all the way down to Oswan in the south.
10:15We went to Abu Simbel, which is this beautiful.temple that Ramsey's had carved for himself and won for his favorite of his 32 wives,Nefertari.But there, it's beautiful.It's like one of the ancient wonders of the world.Then flew back to Cairo for like a day or two.Our Egyptologist told us this.And I have not done the legwork to verify if this is true or not.
10:37But what is true is that he told us Cairo has the oldest or the largest cemetery in the world.And I don't know if that's true or not.But I will say that like if you're driving across Cairo, there's like a four or five milestretch where it's just cemetery on either side of you.So you're like in the highway and then there's cemeteries on either side.And the way that these cemeteries work is that people are buried pretty quickly in Egyptwhen they pass.But then their family members will build rooms on top of their graves, basically where they
11:09can go, you know, pay their respects.And I think it's partially pragmatic because of the heat.So it's basically like a structure.you're not just standing out in the sun.But what is crazy about this is that in the 90s, 80s and 90s, when the housing market collapsed in Egypt, people started moving into these rooms in the cemetery.So at one point, there were 700,000 people living in the cemetery in Cairo, and they called it the Living City of the Dead, which is a great title for a book.Totally.And so you'll be driving past these cemeteries, and you'll see.
11:45that they've also built the infrastructure of a city within the cemetery.So it'll be like tombs, tombs, tombs, tombs, there's a school, there's a soccer field,there's a hospital, tombs, tombs, tombs, and it's within the cemetery itself, which is crazy.And so at some point, one of the presidents of Egypt basically said, like, we're not doing this anymore.So he made most of the people leave.But there are still, they think about two to three thousand people who live in the cemetery in Cairo.how crazy is that?That is wild.
12:18I'm looking at pictures of it right now because I'm like, my brain can't even come up withit.And then you're like, oh, okay.It was just how they're living.And it really just does look like kind of like like dwellings.Like it's really like if you didn't know that was a cemetery, you'd be like, oh, it's likea low rent housing district or something.Yeah.
12:38Because they're not super sophisticated.They're not like high rises, but like you can tell the like structures.And so.Yeah. It was crazy. I know. He told me that. I guess. I know, right? Yeah. And my spooky little brain went intooverdrive and was like, can I write a book about that? You know, just like, I don't know that I'm the rightperson to do it, but like that it would be an amazing. I would love to read it. So.Yes. Like what's taking place in like the little micro communities. Totally. And also likeplenty of spooky potential. Yeah. So yeah. So then.
13:12someone can write it if we don't write it right somebody picked that idea up yeah so then from cairo we flew over tojordan and while i was in jordan i got to see the dead sea and petra which was amazing i also gotstopped by the antiquities police as i was trying to fly out of jordan for this little numbera little stone scarab which is very cool yeah which is definitely not ancient but they were a little worryingit might be, which I get, like, obviously.Yeah.Want to protect the antiquities.Yes.
13:51Oh, can you not hear me?My internet is being slow.Hold on one second.You're good.There you are.Yay.Okay, I can hear you.Yeah.
14:09Okay.Good.Cool.Yeah, so I got stopped for my little stone scarab souvenir.And they took my passport away for a few minutes.And I was like, oh, no, do I live?have been Jordan now, but then it was totally fine. That's good. Well, that would be nerve-wracking,though. Yeah, it was a little bit. I was sort of like, oh, uh-oh, there's a big language barrier here.
14:30Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's what's always scary about, because that shows up in thrillers.Like when you're in another country and something bad goes down and you're like, uh, I don't know what to dohere. Totally, right? Like, yeah, we get so used to, I mean, I think we all think that our way of life is thedefault way of life and traveling really like puts you up against that idea of like nopethere's tons of ways and just because you're used to doing it one way doesn't mean it's right and you'relike oh no right not everybody wants to know that or hear that right totally yeah so you were therewas that three weeks then two three it was two two weeks yeah two solid weeks and then basicallylike 24 hours of travel to get home um but you
15:17Yeah, it was the most amazing experience.That's so cool.Probably of my life.Yeah.Yeah.Because you, like, wanted to since you read that book, right?Like, you basically wanted to at least visit.Oh, yeah.
15:30I, like, so I read Mara daughter of the Nile and then I became obsessed with Egyptian history.So I read everything I could get my hands on.Tried to teach myself how to read hieroglyphics.Didn't go great, but, like, I tried as a kid.I used to, I had this, like, terrible habit.I'm a teacher's daughter and, like, this is where it maybe shows up.is like, I guess the homework that my teacher was assigning wasn't enough.And maybe this is just like the seed of being a future writer and like wanting something to do with your brain all day.
15:58But I would like assign myself projects.And so I would be like, okay, this month we're going to learn everything we can about like Cleopatra.And then I would write up little reports and give them to my teacher to grade.And she finally called home and was like, please, like your daughter is making extra work for me.We didn't assign this.I don't want it.Like, I have a life.I can't just be reading, like, things she's turning in.
16:23And my mom was like, we've got to get you a few more hobbies.Right.Oh, my gosh.That's so cute, though.Thank you.You were taking it to her.Oh, yeah.I was like, I would like a gold star in an A.
16:35Thank you.You're like, more gold stars, please.Yes, exactly.I feel you there.I feel you on that one.Mine was like, I mean, obviously I'm not trying to say this.sound like, I never want to sound like overly intellectual because people are so annoying in thatrealm sometimes. But my second grade teacher started giving me separate spelling tests because
17:01everything was so easy for me. Look at you. So you had me harder once so I could learn morewords. And I was like, hoo-hoo. And everyone's like harder. And I'm like, I don't know, it's fun.Yeah, totally. Did you ever participate in spelling bees?Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't think I won. I don't think I did. You were robbed. You were robbed. We need a recount. Yeah. Yeah. Probably actually, because I was the salutatorian. It was probably, it actually probably was the valedictorian who beat me. Saludatory. Look at you. Go girl. Yeah. I'm a little, I'm a, well, I'm bookish all around and schoolish. Yeah. I get it. Those things off.go hand in hand. Yeah, typically. Did you read anything while you were on vacation? Yes, I did. So I don't knowabout you, but like one of the great joys of travel for me, like I don't care about the clothes I pack,like whatever, like just pack something. I sit there and do like a Hunger Games-esque, like, or like,I guess maybe like a basketball March Madness bracket of which books I'm going to bring. Like I start with like 20
18:17and I'm like, okay, this one or this one.And I like let it marinate for weeks.Like I have thought before that I should do some sort of TikTok content about it because it is like a little bit ridiculous.You probably should.I really should.Yeah.But I brought, I think I brought eight books, which was aggressive.I will say that was aggressive for a two week trip.
18:38But I think I read like six of them.So I got pretty close.But, well, I mean, I had a couple of really long flights where.Oh, that's.know, it wasn't a lot to do besides stare straight ahead at a movie or a book.Yeah.So I had, I would say, three big highlights, actually four of the books that I read were reallyexcellent.
19:03I read The God of the Woods by Liz Moore.Oh, I want to read it.I just have not fitted in.It's so good.Okay.So I have to read it.It's so good.she's such a good writer.
19:19The characters are so interesting.She does some really interesting stuff with perspective.I actually don't think I'd read any of her books before,even though her last book, Long Bright River,won the Edgar a couple of years ago.And she's somebody who I like know of and have a lot of respect for.But I hadn't read any of her work before.And I read God of the Woods and it just like floored me.
19:45it was so good.Yeah.So the premise of that one, just kind of briefly, is this rich family owns this plot of landthat runs a summer camp for kids every year, kind of like a survival camp.Like they're supposed to learn skills to like survive in the woods.And one year, their teenage daughter, Barbara, attends the summer camp and goes missingfrom the summer camp.And what's odd about that?
20:11So there's this forward narrative of like, where's Barbara?Are we going to find her?What happened to her?there's all these things that happened the last night she was there and you're kind of getting allthese perspectives piecing it together but the piece that makes it really kind of crazy and bizarre isthat Barbara's older brother bear went missing like 15 years before and has never been recoveredand so it's this sort of like how do these two mysteries relate to each other how do they play intoeach other what's going on there and it's just yeah everybody who reads it loves it so good and like
20:44It's one of those books where I don't know about you, but like sometimes when a book gets so much hype, there's a part of me that's resistant to it.Yeah.I'm like, okay, I know it's going to be great.I get it.And then I read it and I was like, fuck, it really is great.Oh, my God.It really is.That's amazing.
20:59Yeah.So I read that one.Chris Whitaker's is the other one that I all, is it all the colors of the dark?Yes, which I also haven't read.I haven't either.I need to.We should do a podcast episode.You can cut this out.
21:14if you want, but we should do a podcast episode of all the big hype books we haven't read.That's a really good idea. Yeah, we should do that sometime. I like that idea. I love that too.I love that. I'll totally do that. Because I think in the reason I pair those two together too is they'reboth like 500 page books. Totally. I didn't get it on net galley. I didn't get either of them.And so I've just been having to read for interviews. And if I, otherwise, I'm like, I don't know if I canread 500 pages before my next book. Totally. No, I get that. They're investments. They are big investments,but it was, it's really good. Yeah, I want to read it. Yeah. And so then let's see. I also readthe book What the River Knows by Isabel Ibanez, which is a little more, there's mystery elements
22:15to it. It's a little more, I think it was pitched as, um, Death on the Nile meets the Mummy andhas like a little bit of like supernatural elements to it.And it's about this young woman who,her parents are Egyptologists and they leave her for six months out of every year in Buenos Aires,where she's grown up to go to Egypt and to explore and excavate.And on one of their missions,she finds out they both died.And no one can tell her what happened or why,
22:45just that they're dead.And so she decides she's going to go to Egypt.And I think it's set in like the 1890s.She's going to go to Egypt.and find out what happened to them.Yeah.And it was, it's Y.A.And it's got some romance in it, which I found very enjoyable.
23:05It was just very enjoyable.And it was very fun to be reading it as I was myself making a very similar journey.Yeah.So that was really cool.And it was just really fun.And so I, I would say I really enjoyed the book, but I wasn't sure if I was going to read the next book in the series.And then there's.like a last page mic drop where I was like, well, okay, I guess I'm reading the next book.
23:29Like it was like, oh my God. Yeah. How often does that happen? That happens to me very rarely.Oh, yeah. Same. Yeah, because a lot don't have like true cliffhangers at the end.Totally. And I was like, and it just like upended my full understanding of what had happened in the bookbefore in a way that was like very satisfying and very like, okay, now what? Now what?Yeah.Yeah.That is exciting.Yeah.
23:56So highly recommend that one.And I think the sequel, something, oh.What you say it was called again?What the River knows.What the River knows.Yes.And there's a sequel coming out, I believe this month, actually.And it's something like hidden in the library or something, some reference to a library,
24:18which I think is the library of Alexandria.But we'll find out.I also got to read my arc. Everybody be super jealous. Oh, yeah. Of the favorites by Lane Fargo,which if you don't know, why don't you know, but it's great. It is a retelling of Wuthering Heightsset in the world of ice dancing. And it's very emotional and sweeping takes place over the course of20 years and is kind of this like melodramatic passionate romance between cat and heath rocha and they'reboth pair skaters and how they come together and it's about ambition and artistry and love andlike what actually brings us everlasting nourishment it's really great a really fun read very like soap opera
25:17and in the best way.Yeah.And dramatic and fun.Oh my gosh.I'm so excited.I have it,but I'll probably read it closer to pub date.I have it on that galley, but.
25:30That's totally fair.I'm so tempted.It's long.It's a beast too.It is a long book, but it is, it flies by for sure.Yeah.Oh, boy.I'm so excited.
25:44Yeah, it's great.Did you see?I got my.I got my Ashley Winstead arc.Oh, you did!This book will bury me?Yes.Okay.
25:54I just finished that last week and it's so good and I can't wait to hear what you think about it.Oh, I read it already.I got the PDF of it.So, yeah, because I'm going to blurb it and which maybe I, ah, look at how beautiful.It's a stunner.I know.It's so pretty.And it's good.
26:14This is one where I'm really torn because we.scheduled an interview for February. And I'm like, I want to have read it fresh then. I don't knowif I can wait that long. I get it. And I loved it. I like, I love all of Ashley's work. There isn't abook of hers that I've read that I haven't been obsessed with. But this book is just really somethingspecial. And she does some very tricky things. Like it's sort of meta. It's sort of meta. It'slike I don't know I don't know how to explain it and I don't want to give anything awaywhich is something I want to talk about when we talk about the movie that I also want us to talkabout oh my gosh I know how do you discuss something without being like there's a twist here
27:00which primes an audience to like I know look for something but like she does some really coolmeta stuff within the book about like true crime and writing true crime and just likeI want to live in her brain yeah I know I know I'mso excited to read it. Because it's like I also could read it early and write my questionsafter I read it and then just keep them until the interview. So we'll see. It'll be,I don't envy you. It's a tough one to decide if you want to read it earlier or not.So and then I read one other book that I want to squeal about a little bit, which is a nonfictionbook. And it came out years ago and it was a big book when it came out, but I hadn't read it yet.
27:47But there's going to be a TV show on Hulu made inspired by the book coming out, I think, either this month or next.And it's called Say Nothing, a true story of memory and murder in Northern Ireland by Patrick Radin-Keefe.And it is about the troubles in Ireland, the longstanding conflict, which I knew the broad strokes of.Like I'm a fan of the TV show Dairy Girls and was sort of like, all right, like I understand this history from this lens, but goes much more in depth than to it and what was at stake in some of the history, particularly of the more recent part of the conflict.But it does it through the lens of this woman who is kind of an infamous murder victim of the troubles, went missing for a long time, would not be confirmed murdered for a long time.she had 10 children when was basically yanked out of her home and her kids never saw her again.And it's like what happened to Jean McConville.And so he uses this kind of her as the jumping off point to like give you a fuller picture of this history.
28:52And it is so good.If you like nonfiction, if you like historical and true crime, it is just like impeccably researched, impeccably written, very complex, nuanced subject that'streated that way where you come out of it not necessarily feeling like anybody's clean and it's justwas like so good. I loved it. You got me wanting to read nonfiction. I actually, the other arc I gotthat I'm definitely going to read nonfiction, Marshall Clark wrote a nonfiction trial byambush about a woman who was like wrongly accused of a crime. And it was like,this publicist I work with. They sent me and they were like, would you be interested? And I'm like,I'm reading nonfiction. That's what's going to happen. If I can talk to Marsha Clark.
29:46I know. That's what I was just going to ask. Are you going to get to interview her? Yes.Yeah. And I just got that part too. Yeah, let's see it.Look at that. Murder injustice and the truth about the case of Barbara Graham. Trial byambush. I'm writing that down. I'm looking that one up. It comes out in aNovember 12th.Okay.Wow, wow, wow.I've just been getting all the arcs this week.
30:14Look at you.I just got Danielle Truisone's one, the puzzle box.Oh, nice.Yeah.Let me know what you think of that.I know, I will.It's the next one I'm going to read.So I'll know soon.
30:30Okay, so on that notes, do you find yourself,we're now officially, it's October 2nd when we're speaking,it's officially fall, spooky season is in the air.Do you feel like you change what you read seasonally or like what you're drawn to?I know you're also reading so much for the podcast and for different things that it's kind of dictated by arts,but I'm just curious if you like notice a shift in your reading with the seasons because I definitely do.So I would say probably like I read like 15% more or like I'm like 15 to 20% more likely to read like dark academia or.something that's a little horror-e.
31:10And so I think I can't remember.Oh, I did talk about this on the podcast like three weeks ago.But why can't I think of her last name?Alexis Henderson has a book column coming out called Academy for An Academy for Lyers.Something like that.Yes.Yes, yes.And I loved it.
31:34It is like this really cool blend.of dark academia, horror, for sure.There's psychological magic and, like, bad magic and, like, action all taking place on thisthis secret campus that is, like, encapsulated in magic in Savannah.So, like, nobody knows about it except the people that get invited to it.So she gets invited.I was obsessed.Like it is a bloody like gritty dark dark academia thriller and it was so good.
32:14So that sounds amazing.That one was like I was I read it in September, but I was because it comes out in October.And I feel like that is like I would read more books like that in the fall for sure.So like I just read her book House of Hunger, which is also really good.And it's like historical fantasy, not even fantasy.It's historical something like gothic historical thriller where basically living in a society where people have blood maids and so they like drink their blood.But it's like you can go from living on the streets to like being incredibly wealthy just because you let wealthy people drink your blood.Wow.
33:00It's such a fun concept.And so it was just wild and out there.cover is really cool and the cover is very spooky. So I do, I do think I read like more of that ingeneral, but I'm not someone who like, like I can still read a summer thriller right now.For sure. In the summer, I, summer, sometimes I read a winter thriller and I'm like,thank God at least in my fictional world. It's cold. That's amazing. Yeah. So how about you?Yeah, I do the same thing too, where again, it's like, it's not like I only read seasonal.but I do notice that like, like, yeah, especially in the fall, I guess with the summer books too,
33:41like summer thrillers, like I do sometimes feel drawn to like things that have that sort of like heated poolside feel.Yeah.But then in the fall, I'm like definitely dark academia.I'm also really drawn to like British stuff, which I guess is my version of it.Like, like I was kind of pulling out some books on my, from my shelves being like, I think I want to read these in the next few weeks.and one that popped up was Agatha Christie.Oh, I don't remember the title.It's her really famous, the one that she famously pulls off, again, a twist with.
34:18Let me look it up because it'll drive me crazy.But then another one was one about the Yorkshire Ripper, like a nonfiction account.Like for some reason, my version of all is like, oh, time to go to England.You know, I don't know what that's about.but I get it though.Like it makes me think a broad church.I don't know if you watch that on Netflix.Yes, yes, yes.
34:36That's like a fall vibe.Yes.The murder of Roger Ackroyd is the one that I pulled from my shelf that I want to read this fall.Nice.And then I have this feeling, I have this like pet suspicion and I'm sure somebody you'll be like, yeah, other people have written about this at length.I think dark academia partially comes out of, I mean, you could trace the roots older.Like I think the secret history by Donna Tart is probably one.like the big ones.
35:02But I also think part of the reason it's become such a hit is that it's like all the kidswho grew up with Harry Potter are now adults and want to return to that like Hogwartsdark atmosphere, but like from a more adult lens.That's what I think is going on with academia.I think I've got to agree with you because when I was talking about Academy for Liars,like for the first time I was telling people, I was like it actually is a lot like it'sa Harry Potter concept but like rated R.Totally. That's what it sounded like. Yeah. Yeah. And I wrote it down because I need to read that. That sounds right up my alley. Oh, I think you'll love it. It was so good and so atmospheric. She's talented. Yeah. I'm going to talk to her next week. Oh, my gosh. That's exciting. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm super excited. Yeah. I wrote down House of Hunger too. I'll read them and report back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also there's like too many pages. So. Oh, nice. Quick, quick jaunt.
36:01mentioning dark academia.I want to squeal about something that I think you probably saw the news about,which is that Society of Lies by Lauren Ling Brown is Reese Wooden's book club pick.I was so excited for her.I am so happy for her.That was so I like tagged her in a reel and she DM me and she was like,oh my God, in 30 minutes they're going to announce that it's a Reese book club pick.And I was like, what?
36:24And I was like, I hope this is going to be one of the ones that she turns into a TV show.And I was like, every episode could switch between.between the perspectives.It would be so cool.It will be so cool.Honestly, we should get you in the development room because it sounds like she said.She was like, I hadn't even thought of that.Like, yeah, we need to do that.
36:41Yeah.I'm so excited for her.It's such exciting news.So great.And I get to do a live conversation with her on Friday.So I'm really excited about that too.So we got.I love that you guys are like also little besties.
36:56Yeah.We went to lunch two days ago.I know.We're making a little trying.I'm going to make it out there eventually.Yes, you better.I'm going to do all the, like, I'm going to take that or Austin or Houston.There are like tons of thriller authors there too.
37:10That's very true.I think Amy Gentry lives in Austin.Yeah.Among other people.But yeah, if you come out to California to L.A.,I will take you on like my spooky cemetery tours.I know.I know.
37:23See where Toto, the dog is varied.It'll be great.Yes.Oh, my gosh.It will be so fun.It's going to happen.We don't know when.but it's going to happen.
37:32But it will, for sure.Yes.It will.And then I'll be like, which books did you pack?I know.And I'm like, my phone.It has all of them.Yeah, exactly.
37:40I have a library, Hallie.Getting into the 21st century.Oh, my gosh.Yeah.We'll make it happen for sure.For sure.Well, I have read, I read a couple here recently that were very fun.Oh, do tell.
37:57This one, I mean, not that I have two,but like not that you shouldn't read the other one too but like this one is like it has such asimilar tone to the lady upstairs meets dexter okay but it was reminding me of that okay so it's calledthis girl's a killer it's by emma c wells you may have seen some of her brilliant marketingi have yes yeah so she built a whole life whole real life size like Barbie box for this book and hasbeen taking it to different conferences. I think, is it Boucher or Boucher Con? Boucher Con. Boucher. It's neither.I know. It should be, it should be like Boucher Khan, I think, but like everybody just says Boucher Con.Yeah. Yeah. So I think that was the first one she took it too, but people can definitely go. I think she's
38:53Emacy Well's author. I can't totally remember, but she's on Instagram. You'll be able to find her.but she built a whole Barbie box and has been doing like press with it. I'm like, this is brilliant.So I'm at like 60% so I'll probably just read the synopsis so that I don't spoil anything.But meet Cordelia Black. Cordelia loves exactly three things. Her chosen family,composed of her best friend Diane and her goddaughter, her hairdresser, worth every penny plus tip in killing bad men.By day, she's a successful pharmaceutical rep with a pristine reputation and a designer wardrobe.By night, she's calling South Louisiana of unscrupulous men, monsters who always seem to evade justice until they meet her.It's a complicated yet fulfilling life that requires complete and total control at all times.
39:43But when the evening news starts throwing around the word serial killer, pressure heightens for her in the south,and it's only exacerbated when Diane starts dating a man Cordelia is sure as not.not a good person. Someone who might unravel everything Cordelia has worked for with her found family.Soon Cordelia's world spirals, and that is not an exaggeration. Her world is falling apart at thepoint that I'm in, and she loses her grip on those tightly held threads that keep her safe.It is blowing my socks off. And I don't use that term, and that's just what came to my mind.I love that. That sounds, I mean, that sounds so up my alley also. Like, that sounds great. Very,they never learned by Lane Fargo too.
40:26That too.Yes.Yeah.Very much.It's kind of cool too because it's making me realize like I think I just hadn't thought ofDexter in a while since I watched it so long ago.But I'm like, Dexter, snarky.Yeah.
40:40I haven't thought of it.And I was like, they're actually that he is a really good example of a snarky male character.I always think of it with females.But like it's so cool because like everything that's actually happening and the details ofher life are nothing like Dexter's life.But it's not just that she's like killing bad people.It's also like her inner monologue is the kind of fun that you have listening to likeDexter's inner monologue throughout.
41:06I totally get that.It's so good.Like I think at the part of the reason those thrallers are so successful and that I thinkthey're so fun for people is that you get to be like an avatar into this like snarky,bitchy murderous that you would never, none of us aspire to be that in real life.really but like that it like allows you to live in this way that is like outside of who you would normallybe and I think that's so fun yes yes it's really good I was like truly trying to like keep my eyes openlast night so I could try to finish it but I just can't I wish I wish I could get so into a book
41:43that I would stay up all night like I'm fine sacrificing sleep but I can't I fall asleep we'rewe're older now you know like I do that when I was like 15 and now I'm like that's a good pointMy brain's like, no, we need to stop for today.Right, exactly.Like, it's night night time.We're done.Yeah.Yeah.
42:02Yeah.So the other one, though, is this really cool story.So, have you read the astrology house by Corinne Jade?No.Okay.So I hadn't either.I remember seeing it.It came out in July.
42:16I remember seeing it like a bunch on the feeds, but I just, like, hadn't requested it.And a lot of people were just giving it pretty good.good reviews but anyway um so cool cool podcasting crossover story i had chelsea beaker who wrotemadwoman on the podcast um and then so then i was following her and then she shared she was onthis podcast called pop fiction women and i was like that title sounds like someone i need to followtotally so i followed their podcast and it's corin and katetheir two co-hosts togetherand they like cover fiction
42:59whether it's books, TV shows,movies that women write or produceor are in charge ofand part of the reason they do thatbecause then I got obsessed and I went to their websiteand had to read everything about them.Their about section is thatCorinne was listening to something
43:16after Gone Girl came outand it was like a two-hour conversationabout it.And these podcasters were talking about how great Ben Affleck was and how great the direction was from David.Thank you.I almost said Flincher.And I was like, that's not right.Honestly, that's like a spookier version of his name, though.
43:40I like it.Right.And she was like, so I listened to two hours of it.And literally not once did we talk about Gillian Flynn, who wrote the book, who adaptedthe screenplay who like was nominated for her screenplay didn't talk about her didn't talk aboutAmy done like just didn't even touch on any of that and she was so mad that she called her friend upand she was like do you want to do a podcast with me where we talk about things that women createand I'm like that is the coolest origin story ever that really is and like how do you talk about
44:16gone girl without talking about like this central woman experience of it whereLike that to me is part of what makes that book so powerful.It's why it's like it's first of all,it's a great story.It's really well written,but it's also like Amy Dunn's cool girl speech is iconic for a reason.And it really gets to the heart of like these dynamics that like women experience.And I think that's why it resonated with so many people besides being such a great story.
44:42Like how do you talk about that without mentioning that's what I said to her too.I was like especially that movie.Like that movie we're not talking about.of the women involved. Right. Right. And there's plenty of like male-fronted media, plenty,that you could be like, yeah, I guess we're not talking about the women part of it, which is likebullshit anyway. But like, you know what I mean? But like, how do you talk about Gone Girl withouttalking about the women? I somehow, whoever that was did. And so now we have Pop FictionWomen, though, which is really fun to listen to. So. Awesome. So I started out. Yeah. So I started
45:19following them and then i was like oh i remember seeing her name everywhere on a book so karen jade wrotethe astrology house um that came out this july and i loved it it was very cool the this one i think ithink i can probably give the gist of it without giving any spoilers but um basically it is a likereally pretty gabled beach house um where the owner reeney conducts astrology retreatsSo like you could come and stay and then like you get your personal readings.You got readings with your spouse or your friends or whatever.And everything's like themed with astrology basically for these trips.And so six of them go out there.
46:05It's loosely connected to each other.Like, oh, that's that person's friend.And then his spouse.So they're connected enough.And six people go on this retreat.And basically we start.finding out that everyone has secrets naturally.Of course.
46:23And you shift through five different POVs the whole time.And I thought, and I told her, I just interviewed her yesterday.It's so hard to give five people complete character arcs.Totally.And it's pretty cool.Yeah.And so like all of their secrets basically blow up in their face.And it's like watching what happens as that happens.
46:46That's awesome.Okay.I can't wait to read that.That sounds great.Yeah. And you kind of learn a little bit. I don't know tons about astrology. So you learn a little bit about it. It's not a spoiler. But I thought this was so cool. The way she helps you like get to know the characters is like there's like their chart that the like host is looking at. So then you like get to know the characters that way too.That's really cool. I was wondering if she was going to play with that in there at all. And I love when people do that. That makes me think not that everything goes back to my Egypt trip. But one thing.Right now it does.Right.
47:21We went to one temple, I think it was Dendera, which was beautiful.But it has what they believe is the first ever zodiac that they actually think it came out of Egypt because all of the creatures on the zodiac are actually associated with Egyptian gods.So they think that like the zodiac, which is technically Greek, but they think a Greek philosopher came to Egypt, saw this wheel and used that as the.template for the zodiac. Isn't that cool? That is so cool. Yeah. You just look at it.Just casually, you know. I was amazing. Yeah, exactly like, what's up? Yeah. Yeah, it was cool,though. And like, she kind of, she kind of does some cool stuff with like free will versus fate.And so we had some fun conversations. That's really cool. Yeah. Amazing. Oh.My book list just grows and grows every time I talk with you, Kate.
48:23I know.I know.This is the danger of podcasting about books.It really is.Yeah.Yeah.I know.And I have like so many.
48:33I just have so many I want to read lately.I want to have you the last party by A.R.I don't know if it's Tori or tour.I don't know.Everyone's losing their minds about it.I've heard good things too.And I haven't read it yet.But yes.
48:47Yeah.I need to read the puzzle box next.And then I think I might pick up the last party. We'll see. I also saw J.T. Ellison's new one is an Amazon first reads pick. So I have that one too. And that one sounds so fun. Like the high concept of it all is that like a murder writer is murdered like she was in one of her books. And then her daughter's trying to figure out who did it. Love it. Love that. Yeah. That's so great. I think that sounds like so much fun.reminded me I need to check my Amazon first reads because maybe I'll pick that one too.Yeah, and you can get two this month. You know how sometimes they randomly do that?Yeah. Oh, good. So multiple arenas for me to just be like piling books on books.Yeah, just get them everywhere. Can I ask, how is writing going for you? We can cut this out ofthe podcast if you don't want to talk about it. No, you're good. It's not going bad. It's just going
49:47slow. We had so many car problems coming up. So we kicked it into gear with business and thankfullythe work showed up. So that has been the focus because we had a car just completely stoppedworking. And it was not paid off yet. So there's just been a lot of that in the last two weeks,but I do you feel like I got to kind of a fun spot. I don't know how to say with what, but some things arestarting to like fall into place where I was like seeing how they're going to build to the ending.So that's like a good feeling.Isn't that like a magical feeling when you're like.Yeah.
50:27Yeah.And like I feel like I got a grasp of I think at this when I have a grasp of like all my characters where like when we did the writing challenge, that was when I had the realization that I just needed to write about this family from like third omniscient.And then then it was like, okay.so now I know what my main character's headed into and it's like that helps a lot that's awesomeoh it's so exciting I can't wait to read it I know I know I want to I want to get some more time becauseI do want to finish and I like feel like I have momentum but yeah it's been a lot of editingI get it I get it and that's like the hard part about being like I don't know I think that's realityfor most writers right is that like writing is 100 percent of day job yeah and so it's just like
51:15sometimes it's hard to balance those people who like consistently turn out a book a yearI'm so impressed by and also just like how teach me yeah how I don't I know I don't know how youdo it and have a job like if it was the only thing you had to do maybe sure even then thoughlike I think for me what I've noticed about myself and I don't know if you have similarexperiences but like it's a delicate balance if I have too much time to work on something Istart to like collapse under the weight of like, I should be writing all the time and I'm not.And like, you know, like it's almost like you have to have a balance between enough time towork on it, but not so much time that you can like get so in your head about it.
51:57I hope you're enjoying this episode of Book Wild. And if you are, could I ask you a favor?Could you go and rate and review this podcast and whatever platform you're listening?Ratings and reviews make the biggest difference in discoverability of the podcast.And I definitely want to find all of our fellow thriller readers out there.So if you could go rate the podcast and leave a short review, that would make a huge difference.Thank you. And let's get back to the show. Sometimes having too much time, if you overthink, you just fill it with overthinking.Totally, for sure. Or like Netflix, you know, watching every single thing. Or Netflix or TikTok.Or TikTok. Oh, God. TikTok. I'm trying to put myself on like, I've stepped away from TikTok a little bit just because it was like, it's the only one where I lose time where like all of a sudden they'll look up and I've been like, I've been doing this for an hour? Like, what?
52:43Yeah, especially when Tyler gone's that Tyler gone's when Tyler's gone, I will do the same.We're like, I'll be like, I'll just scroll it and then I'll switch to my book.And then it's like an hour and a half later.Right.And you're like, did I just, what happened?I just stepped into like a time wormhole.Yeah.Yes.
53:02Yeah.Yeah.It's a little too good.The algorithm is too good.The algorithm is too good.So should we talk about strange darling?I think we should.We should try.
53:13I think we should try to. Yeah. Well, so we're going to, we're going to not spoil anything. I'll cut anything if we spoil stuff. So you guys can keep listening. But I know I mentioned it on like one other podcast, but I don't think I even talked about it much. So most people don't know how obsessively. It might have been just the one with you telling you to or no, I texted you. You texted me. And I was like, like, you were just like, have you seen strange darling? You should go see it. Don't look up anything beforehand. Just go. And I was like, okay. And I knew you were like on your way.out of the country. And so I'm like, if you have time before you leave. I like looked. There was likeone showing I could get to before I left, but I was just like, I just don't like I was, I was like, Istill have to pack. And so, but it was like one of the first things I did when I came back wasOh nice. So it was still in theaters when you got back. That's good. Okay. Because it's sometimes with the likeindie, because it was definitely an indie film. Sometimes they're like only there for like two weeks and thenthey just disappear. Totally. So I didn't watch you to miss it. But I'm glad you got to see it in theater.It's so good. Yeah.
54:13So what is the best?I mean, even trying to, you can try to do a summary as well.I'm maybe going to look up what they say.So I, so here's what I, so here's a few things I'm going to say about it.Yeah.Try not to spoil anything.So the movie starts with like a crawl of words.And it basically says that I think in 2018 or 2019, the country's most prolific serial
54:40killer went on like a spree before being out.apprehended. And that's, that's like a fictionalized story or like that's the story we're aboutto see based on like reconstruction of what happened. And one thing that I think is really interestingabout that is that I, I don't know about you, but I was pretty interested. I, I really enjoyedthe movie. I, I didn't think it was always, I wouldn't say it was like a 100% perfect movie,but I really, really liked it. I thought it was beautifully shot, crazily well acted, really well done.like in a non-linear structure.But so I was so obsessed with it that I went,
55:18I started looking up articles afterwards.And one thing that I was curious about was like,was this actually based on any real serial killer?And the filmmakers have been very cagey about that.And it just is like, which honestly,I'm actually less interested in whether or not it's based on a true personand more what the idea that it might be kind of does to your viewing experience.And like I think that's always something that's interesting to
55:43in books when somebody says something where it kind of blurs the lines between reality and notin this really interesting way. And I thought that that was a very interesting part that theyincluded with it. So then you- Fargo. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Where it's like-Yeah, they've stuck with that. Yeah. Totally. And it's like Fargo, I think the OG, the movie wasbased on a case. But if you look it up, it's like pretty far from what actually happened in themovie. It's just like, yeah, there was a guy who murdered his wife in North Dakota.Right. But then it's become like a hallmark of the show that they say that too.And it's so interesting. It's like it's almost like the movie or the TV show creating its own
56:27mythology. And like, where is that in real life? It's really cool. Yeah. And it's set in Oregon.I think I can say that without it being any spoiler. So it's all these like beautiful,saturated. Like one thing that they talked about in interviews that I read and that I noticed was thatI feel like if you see a lot of thrillers now, they're kind of gray cast. Like everything is kindof gray and blue and feels very rainy and like desolate. This movie, yeah, is like beautifullyin color. So much light red. So much bright red. The sunlight filtering through the trees. It's likea fairy tale. It's beautiful.Yeah. And I thought that really added
57:13to it too.It does. It does.I'm really talking around it.I know. We just are. We just are.And like, it's that afterthe text rolls, like this is the synopsisthat they have for it. Nothingis what it seems when a twisted
57:29one night stand spirals intoa serial killer's vicious murderspree. We can tell youthat. And we can tell youthat the first scene, because it's whatwould see in the trailer. The first scene is Mike, is it Micah Monroe? No. No. This isn'tMicah Monroe. It's, that was, um, Micah Monroe is from long legs. Her name is Willa something.After I said it, I was like, wait a second. Yeah. Willif is Gerald. Willif is Gerald. Yes.
57:59So like the opening scene is her like in a, in like red scrubs, like nurse scrubs almost.with like blood dripping somewhere from her faceand she's like running kind of in slow motionout of the trees basicallyand there's a maneventually following her with a truck and a gunso that's what it opens up withbut the really cool thing and I have it in my notes
58:33because I took a lot of notes when I was watching this onebecause we were alone in the theater.I love it.I think it starts in chapter three.The way that they actually handle it being nonlinear is really cool because, yeah, so chapterthree is the first chapter.So then all of a sudden, like, we get into it and there's like a title card that sayschapter three, can you help me please?
58:57And so we start on chapter three, then you go to five, then to chapter one, chapter four,chapter two, and then chapter six.So like you bounce all around and the thing that was so fascinating to me to think about is like how still within a three-act structure.Yeah.Like even being non-linear, all of the reveals to the audience fit in the right place, even though the story's out of order.So it's in like almost telling the story out of order is what makes the story so good and makes it work and hit all the beats.you're totally rightI hadn't thought of that but you're so right
59:37it's likeyou can see very clearlylike they don't cheat rightlike the story isyou could there's a version of the movie that you couldwatch chapter one to chapter sixand it would all fit togetherbut instead they stagger the structure
59:53for a variety of reasonsand you're totally right it still workslike perfectlyyeahthe reveal is to youlike at that midway point you're like what?Totally.Okay.
01:00:08I loved it.I'm obsessed.I am,well,I'm having a hiccup attack right now.I am trying so hard to get connected to the director because he wrote it,the writer director.And I got connected to the writer director of Audity,
01:00:26which I saw like the week before.And I really loved that.And so I interviewed him.That episode came out last week.But this J.T. Malner, who did Strange Darling, doesn't have an Instagram.He's just one of those cool people.You just can't get in touch with.One of those cool kids.
01:00:47And I'm like, bro, I want to talk to you.Totally.You'd have a great conversation with him.Okay.So I haven't listened to the whole episode yet, but I did see that you spoke with the directorof Audity.And based on what you said about it and your conversation with him,I watched it last weekend with my friends.
01:01:03It was so good.It was so good.It was so good.Yes.It was so suspenseful, so weird.That creature, the like, uh.The wood.Yes.
01:01:15Yes.Oh, it was so good.I was like screaming.At one point, I did scream, actually, out loud.I don't blame you.Yeah.Was it the tune with the tent in the camera?No, but that one was like, I was like,
01:01:31I had created like I had blocked everything so that I had like the smallest like angle that I could see that I was just like I don't want to see it I don't want to see it I you what he did such a good job of what the movie did such a job of was like the suspense like how long they dragged out that suspense and like the opening setup is so fucking good because it's so creepy where this man comes to the door of a woman who's staying alone in this like abandoned castle and like and.And he's like, somebody's in there.You need to let me in there.And you're like, and he looks visibly kind of off.And so you're like, no, no, of course she's not going to let you in there.But then it like starts to shift and you're like, oh, fuck, maybe there is someone in there.And it's like it's concerned.Yeah.
01:02:19Right.And you're like, you don't know if the danger is inside or outside.And it's like, it was so well done.Yes.I loved it.I thought it even used tropes.And he talks about that too.Like he has a lot of favorite tropes.
01:02:35It still feels like a really unique take on like a and I talked to him about that too.It's like it is a whodunit.It's paranormal.It's horror.It is like a textbook thriller too.There are twists.Like I loved it so much.But that scene, the one where you were saying you really like couldn't even look that on our way to the theater.
01:02:59So I heard about this movie.because of film Joe, I think is his name on TikTok.There are two guys, or Cinema Joe, Cinema Joe on TikTok.He and someone else whose name, I can't remember and I feel very bad,are my favorite people that I get my movie news from.And so after we had seen Long Legs, which like, we have that discussion about whetherit was terrifying for you or just like fun to watch, Cinema Joe was like, I liked LongLegs, but this is the scariest movie I've seen this year and you need to go
01:03:31see it. And I was like, okay, we've got to go do it. And so on the way there, I was telling Tyler,I was like, I was like, I'm trying to think of like, because I was kind of nervous to go seesomething that scary in the theater. And I'm like, what is it that makes you just like, like,that you couldn't even handle seeing it in public. So we were just talking about that. We sit there,a movie starts or whatever. We get to that scene. And again, it doesn't spoil anything for anyone,but the scene with a tent and a camera and Tyler looks over it, meaning he's like, this is terrifying.Yes.Yeah.
01:04:02It's terrifying.There's a master for job of drawing out the suspense moments,which I think is like so horror in particular,we all know the beats of it.You know what I mean?Yeah.So it's like you know, like as soon as you see her taking pictures,setting up the camera to take pictures around,
01:04:18you're like, fuck, that's coming in.You know, like you know these things.Sorry, I've been really swearing a lot this.Oh, I do too.Please do.Thank you.They do such a masterful job.drawing it out because it's almost like the principle of the movie Jaws, which is that like the more
01:04:34you see the shark, the less scary it is. So he does such a good job of like living in those momentswhere you don't know exactly what's coming. You just know that it is and it's going to be bad.And you're just like, just don't do it, you know. Oh, but it's so good. It is so good. I loved it.And I don't know if you guys can hear my dogs, but I don't think it's super loud if you do hear them.I rewatched it the morning before the interview because it was like I saw it.And then I interviewed him six weeks later and thankfully he was on streaming.And it just so played out that we were just so busy with work that week that like I was like going to bed after I finished work.So I was watching this at like 4.30 in the morning because I was like I've got I'm just going to have to wake up early.
01:05:23I can't bring myself to watch this right now at night.I'm exhausted.So I was watching it like 430.but that also meant it was like totally dark so it was like watching it at night i knew the thingsthat were going to be happening and i still like was flinching away from stuff i was like this is justit's just that good it's good filmmaking because it's like again like when i got to the end of itthere's there's a couple of things that were really unique about the movie but a lot of it like ohthat sounds like i'm saying something bad and i don't mean to be it's playing with a lot of very
01:05:54familiar beats but it does it so well that like thisThe experience almost is more than the parts to me is how I felt about it, where it's like,and then there were a few truly original twists on it.But like the, again, it's the jump scares that you know are coming, but doing such a masterful job of holding it until the exact right moment and just like letting that tension build.I was just like, oh, you get to a point where you're almost like, do it already.Like just I can't live in this tension.Like just do it.Yes, I agree.
01:06:29Bruce has lots of feelings about it right now.He's just breathing his hot air on me.I'm going to keep scratching his head.Maybe he'll stay quiet.But yeah, I loved everything he put together.And it was crazy hearing how much...Hold on.Yes, sir.
01:06:49But yeah, I think everyone should watch Audity and Strange Darling pretty much.I agree.were my favorite for the year. Yeah, I loved them. It was, it was really fun. Um, and I don't know. I waslike, so I was in the strange darling theater and there were a bunch of interesting trailers comingup and I was like, are the movies cool again? Because I feel like they, like, I think they have beenthis year. We've got into a lot. And the baby girl trailer with Nicole Kidman just dropped yesterday andI've watched it four times already. It looks so good.Girlie needs to find someone who can make her wigs look real, though.
01:07:25That is true. That is true. She needs a better wig master.I'm just like, I'm like, these are big film sets.I know. It's, but.But yeah, the story looks amazing.The trailer just looks electric. It's like the same feeling I had of like coming outof Challenger's and being like, I think I could punch somebody.Like, I just worked up, you know? Like, I'm so into it.Yes.
01:07:47Well, also a little bit of.bit out of character for me, but I love Aubrey Plaza, like just always like her. She's so cool.And she was doing, she was all over my TikTok because I have not broken my TikTok addiction.Promoting, she has a book, or a book. She has a movie called My Old Ass. It's not her movie, but she's in it.So she's been promoting it. And I was getting the vibes that it was kind of funny from like the things that I saw.And so I told Tyler, like, I was like, oh, this might work for us.it is very funny too it's it's funny it's heartwarming it's heart-wrenching okay i was when the movieended tyler turned to me and said don't get up you don't have you don't have to get up like we can
01:08:35wait like get control of yourself i was trying so hard for like the last like 10 minutes likethe kind we're like you know how if you're in public you may not cry as much as i do though but if you're inpublic and you're like okay okay it's it's pretty common for me at least to hit if it's not like astraight action movie and there's a touching earnest moment my tears my my eyes are going to like water alittle bit like that is not uncommon uncommon for me but then like there's where you're like ohI'm I'm really going to be crying but like I'm really going to like not try to like make a lot ofnoises while I do this even though like I am crying crying yeah my nose isgot so stuffed up because like the one time I tried to like sniff it was so loud and there were
01:09:25snobbles in my nose so I just started giving up I was just trying to like control the like massivelike tears coming down and I'm just like it was beautiful and so sad and also made you it will makeyou appreciate every single moment of your life.is what I can say.Okay.The gist of it is a bunch of 18 year old girls, the main character, she's about to leave for college.And her family has this large cranberry farm.And like that's the whole world she's ever known.
01:10:03Very, not in tone, but in setting, very similar, like where the crad is saying, like, she's just like flying around on a boat on like a little boat because that's just, she's just always lived that way.So she's about to go to college.I think like two weeks away when we start the movie.And then she and her friends do mushrooms in the,in the like forest and like camp out one night.And what happens for her is her future self shows up and starts talking to her.And she's like, you're my old ass is like where that came from.So it's like the older version of her starts talking to her and like telling her the things that like could make the summer more meaningful.
01:10:45And there is like.I would call it a reveal.This is not a thriller.There's a reveal, though, at the end that, like, I realized it, like, 10 minutes before it happened.And, like, already, I was like, oh, no.Oh, no.And then it hits, and you're just like, oh, my God.Okay, I got to see it.
01:11:04As much as it made me cry, it made me so appreciative of life in general.So it is a really powerful coming of age story.Okay, I got to see that one.That sounds great.Yeah.I've seen trailers for it.It does look full.funny. And I had heard, I'd heard, like, I've read a few reviews of it that were pretty good,
01:11:22but like, you're really selling me on it. I got to, I got to, yeah. Yeah, it's very cool.Speaking of Aubrey Plaza, that makes me think of, I, I really am not involved in the MCU.I have, I have, but yeah, I don't really watch very much of the MCU content. I don't know,it just doesn't speak to me. I do watch Wanda Vision and I've seen like scattered different things,but I started watching Agatha all.Wanda Vision was great. And so I really liked that. So then I started watching Agatha all along. And I'm now obsessed with it. I'm really into it. I love that it's like a, they're taking tropes from the Wizard of Oz and inverting them and being like very clever with those Easter eggs. And I know it's got its own story, but it just feels like I love it. And so it sounds like you're watching it too. I'm not watching it because we just didn't have Disney. So I just need to add it is all I really need to do. But it was also making me,debate whether I should watch Wanda Vision again because it's like so much a spin-off from that.But that's another show.
01:12:26Who does.Tyler was gone when I watched that show for the first time and I didn't even know.Like I didn't even know that it was going to hit you in the like grief spot so hardcore at the end.Totally.So I had been, I have been debating rewatching that or not, but I need to buy Disney.And it was crazy because I was thinking about it was like, do I have the time to get that worked up again?And then one of my friends, I'm going to keep this short because I don't want to cry.One of my friends' dogs died this week.
01:13:00Yeah.And I didn't even know the dog.I just know her.And then I just heard her retell the story of it happening on a podcast this morning.But then she referenced the quote from Wanda Vision that says, what is grief but love enduring?and I just lost it again.I was like, I don't think I need to rewatch it.I think I've still got it all in here.
01:13:22I think that's fair.And I did not rewatch Wanda Vision,although I did watch it years ago when it came out.And I still,I think there were a couple of things where I was like,oh yeah,I'm sure that's a Wanda Vision referenceand I'm just missing it.
01:13:34But like, I think you can watch it smoothly through itwithout even having watched Wanda Vision.And it's like, so good.I want to start watching it.It's great.It's very, yeah, it's very fun.It's like it's got darkness to it.And maybe it'll have like,
01:13:51Wanda Vision was very fun too until you realize.Yes.And even fun throughout,but you realize you're right.At the end,the project is like grief and coming to turn the grief.And it's like this heavier thing.And I suspect we might not be doing that.
01:14:04But it's like,it's so fun,female-driven,like amazing actresses who are cast in it.And it's just like,yeah,it feels like a dark.in version of the Wizard of Oz and I'm like so here for that I've got to watch I've been seeing
01:14:20clips so like I know I need to watch it I just need to add the Disney ad on totally I definitelyneed to pick it up you don't watch much reality TV right okay I have watched what did I watchrecently I am I did watch chimp crazy and I watched the secret lives of TikTok wives of Mormonwives?Mormon watched.So did I.Yes.Wow.
01:14:46That was a thing.And then yeah.So that's what I've watched recently.Yeah.I haven't watched Chimp Crazy yet.I've been debating that one.But I had one of the coolest things is when I just have a bunch of photos to edit so I canhave just like TV on while I'm working.
01:15:04And so like because I just had so many photos two days in a row, I like finished secret livesof Mormon wives in like two days.Goes down real smooth.like right through them and it was i come from it's actually very similar religious repression likeextremely similar if i'm being honest like there's more where like with Mormon faith like thewomen can't do any of the blessings as you saw like the baptisms and stuff and also i do not realizeyou women are not allowed into heaven unless they have a husband so there are some of those thingsthat weren't the same, but the
01:15:45judginess, thelike extreme like, oh, we're in our 20s and we're scared if ourparents know that we drink, like the sexual repression,like all of that, I was like,I'm really glad that I'm not in that anymore.For sure. And I felt likeall of that was part of what made.So the show kind of follows, you know,
01:16:13honestly you can do a drinking game of like will mom talk even survive this and you wouldeven survive you would be dead your liver would have exploded but like it kind of follows likethese group of women and one of the ringleaders of it and the one who arguably was most famousbefore the show because of her TikTok drama is taylor frankie paul and she i found her to berather messy in her decision making but ultimately very easy to root for because likelike you see her family and like basically this is someone for whom the like small repressive boxof this Mormonism religion.Just not to say that it's that way for everyone, but it seemed to be for her.
01:16:56Clearly isn't working for her.And the people who like love her and should be on her side are basically just like, get back in thebox.She'll be happy in the box.The box is good.We love the box.Get in the box.And you're like, she's like she exploded her life at 25 because the box wasn't working.
01:17:09Like why do we think it was.So it was just very.empathetic to watch her try to navigate, like, her loving close ties and also like, but I don'twant to live this life exactly this way anymore. It was, I thought it was very, that it felt veryhuman. Yes. I feel like there might have been others that were still being pretty honest,but it also, it felt like she, she's very honest and actually knows who she is, even the mistakesshe's made. And that's what matters to me more than if you make mistakes. It's just,like how do you handle it after and she was kind of the only one he'd be like yeah that was me i fucked up
01:17:48right totally i love that about her and i listened to her on a podcast that she was on now and so likemost of that was happening two and one and a halfish years ago before it came out now and i listened to heron bile files and she you can hear if you're someone who's been in therapy or like just done work onself-talk and shame and all of that. You can hear how much she's worked through and how much,like, good for her that she didn't marry him. Yes. Like, good for her that everyone was telling herto do it. She couldn't bring herself to leave him until recently. She did. Um, good for her. But I'm soproud of her because everyone including him was like, why would you not? And she's like, because it's notright yet. And I was listening to a podcast. So part of the joy for me of
01:18:38watching stuff like this, like obviously is the watching of it. But then I love to like go topodcasts or like I love a think piece article. You and me too. Yeah. And it's like, yeah,give me all the deep dive stuff about it. And people were pointing out how I mean, it is reallyuncomfortable. There's this whole situation that arises with her and her boyfriend and theyare pregnant and he's basically pressuring her to get married. And she like could not be sayingany more clearly, I'm not ready. And then also I'm like eight.and three quarter months pregnant.I'm about to deliver like any day.
01:19:12I can't, I'm too tired.I can't talk about this.I can't keep having this fight.And he just doesn't hear it.And the like emotional abuse of it of sort of just being like,you gotta do it, you gotta do it.You gotta do it. And it just is like, bruh.And like I know, I know it's a TV show.
01:19:26I know it's cut to look a certain way.But like, I don't know.It was pretty hard to watch her just like tears rolling down her face.Just being like, I'm tired.Yeah, it was so sad.And I was like,I'm watching the serialized Mormon wives.And I was like, first of all, these men suck.
01:19:44Like, they are terrible.And then I was like, but then one of them is eight months pregnant.And this man is being one of the most annoying men on earth.And she is somehow not like murdering him.I know.I was like, if I am eight months pregnant, you better not look at me weird.I agree.I mean, the, yeah, the men are a real study in no thing on that show is the worst.
01:20:16Is the worst.That was insanity, saying he was going to leave her.For, she didn't even stay for the Chippendale show, which I was like, girl, at least enjoy the sin.Like, if you're going to be called the sinner.He was gambling.With her money.With her money.and do you know
01:20:38I don't do they cover it in the show or did I find this out laterhis parents gave him$100,000$100,000 so that he could go through medical schooland he blew it all on gambling.Yep.And they have a nerd to tell her what to do.I know. They don't say the amount in the show
01:20:56but they do say that they basically say like she at one pointsays to her friends like her parents gave us a nest eggand like it's gone now and likeyeah the way that she's earning money is TikTokcontent and supporting her family and he basically acts like it's a joke. And I'm like, okay,well, what better options are you offering? Because like, I don't see any. He's the worst. And I lovethat the internet rose up in like pettiness and like looked it up and we're like, actually he'snot related to Ben Affleck. So go fuck yourself. Yes, that's true. Like, no, you're like, no,
01:21:26you're like, all your bluffs. Yeah, like, no. Oh, man. The episode seven and eight werewilds were just unhinged. Yes. It really was. Oh my God. And then they left us on thatcliffhanger with Macy calling Jenna and being like, did you sleep with Dakota? And then it's like,oh, this conversation. And I was like, oh, wait, they have to come back. I know. It's got to getpicked up. It was everywhere. I feel like so many husbands were watching it with their wives.I would see it like they would get sucked into it. It is a roommate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.that's the only thing I would say is like it's not um it's not total escapism reality TV because and maybe ifyou grew up around religious stuff they would feel sad or maybe it doesn't if you didn't but
01:22:19it is sad it's sad seeing the way the church that church treats women especially basicallyit's sad seeing the way the church treats women for me what I was really struck by was umof like patriarchy and capitalism that shows up and it too that like these women are most of themif not all of them are the breadwinners in their family which is like awesome and rock on yes butthe way that that causes conflict in their relationship and then also the way that they havebecome breadwinners by essentially performing their patriarchal roles is also really interestingwhere they kind of act like they're really subverting something and I'm like well on the one hand youkind of are but on the other hand you're like entrenching like you're like reinforcing these like
01:23:08extreme general value yeah and like and that you know they all look very similar you know we couldI don't necessarily want to go into the whole Whitney of it all because I feel like that's like awhole another conversation but she's the only one you know confident enough to rock a bob and notI know long hair waves um the Utah girls yeah and it justjust it's so, so fascinating this sort of like them being like, we're strong women, we're showing women that there's another way. And I'm like the other way looks a lot like the way that the patriarchy tells us, though. Like you all have kids at like 22. Like I don't know.That's what I was seeing commentary on that like they're women who are like married and have multiple children. But also to most of us, it kind of feels like watching high schoolers like who snuck away from their.parents for this part of their life where they feel way older than me and then they're not and 32and these are like 22 year olds or 25 year olds with three kids right we just glossed over michaela
01:24:16getting married at 16 to a man who's 21 just glossed right over that part i have a couple of likelegal questions i want to ask about some of these things um but i'm because if the internet to betrusted he got her pregnant when she was 15she had the baby at 16.Oh, God.Oh, God.And then I guess it's fine because they got married.So, oh.
01:24:41Yeah.It's different.It's different than other reality TV.That's all I'm trying to say.Yeah.And it's, but I'm with you.They, every fight they have in the showfeels like a middle school fight to me.
01:24:57You know what I mean?It's like, oh, these women are very developed in certain areas of their life.and really underdeveloped in others.And the way that their, like, ability to deal with conflict for most of them.And, like, the conflict that happens feels so young and so immature.It's kind of fascinating to watch and just be like, wow, this is a fight.Like, oh.I know.
01:25:18Okay.Yeah.Right.And the whole, like, division of, like, the good Mormons and the bad.The spinners and the, like, yeah.Yeah.And the terrible soda orders where I'm like, I think God would rather you just drink your coffee.like I this is this is this is this is like against like this is ungodly what you're doing to that
01:25:40Dr. Pepper is like no thank you I saw a comment that was like nobody nobody loves findingloopholes more than someone who's like totally committed to adhering to every rule of theirreligion totally and then it's like God doesn't want us to put toxins in our bodies but we do getBotoxin we do get laughing gas when we do we get laughing gas when we getAnd I was like, what? Like, you're 22 and you're getting face full of Botox. But like, and again, I actually like, and then it puts you in the uncomfortable position. I don't want to judge these women's choices. Do you know what you want with your body. But it's the sort of like holding it up as like we adhere to all these beliefs in this very specific way. And then also like being like, but this, this and this. And like, we're not supposed to have sex out of wedlock, but we do have soft swinging parties because like we didn't get to date a lot of people when we were younger. And you're like. And they're like. And they're just. And they're just. And they're just. And they're. And they're. And they. And they. And they. And they're. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. AndThat is an excuse.Yeah.It's so weird.
01:26:36I know.I know.It is the proof that repression does not work out in the long run.No.And it ultimately leads to the real horror of like a Diet Coke filled with half andhalf, which is like, no, thank you.Oh, my God.Those drink orders.
01:26:53Oh, Whitney.Okay, I don't want to spoil it for anybody who, but what Whitney does to a cake,later in the season when I've never seen anything didn't even click for her that that might befucking disgusting like I've never seen anything so low-key gross in my life I was just like oh god I like waswatching while I was working and so I kind of missed something of that scene and so I thought it wasjust in a bag and she was showing it to people. And then I heard, but you put it in the cake.And I was like, all right, we need to get back 30 seconds here. What just happened? And then I was like,yeah, it's disgusting. It's disgusting. I, so I listened to one podcast that had a theory about
01:27:44Whitney and it said their theory was they were like, I think Whitney and Hillary Clinton suffer fromthe same thing, which is that when they were young, someone told them their personality was too muchand wrong. And so since then, they have been trying to approximate what they see around them,but they can't do it right. So they don't understand the feet. And like, I don't know if that's true or not.That was that one person's take. But you certainly see it in Whitney's stuff where she'll do things likedancing with her baby in the emergency room when he has RSV and being like, it's meant to be a celebratorymoment, but like doesn't clock how it looks from the outside, which is that it looks insane and like you're a bad mom.and I'm not here to mom shame anybody, but like it looks bad.
01:28:27No.Or like, it's a weird choice.Or I guess I'm just going to ruin it.But like putting the actual pea stick of your pregnancy test in a cake and not being like,that might be gross for people.And she was just like, it's fine.I put the cap on.I chloroxed it.
01:28:43And you're like, it's still urine adjacent.Like that shouldn't be in that cake.Like, no way.No.No.But take a picture of it and put in a plastic bag or something.Right.put it in like a ring box or something something where people don't have to one touch it or
01:29:00consume it right like if they're going to touch it like they can wash their hands afterwards likedon't put it somewhere like I wonder which part of the cake my cake this was touching the piecestick like oh yes that's so gross yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a wild show it really is it reallyis a wild wild show and I hope there's a season two I do too I need itIn some of their TikToks, there are camera crews in the mirrors people noticed.So people kind of think they're filming right now for season two.I sure hope so.I sure hope so.
01:29:36I'm invested.I'm invested too.Yeah.We just talked about a little bit of everything.We really did.And I was going to say I should probably start wrapping it up.But it's always such a joy to talk to you, Kate.I have such fun in our conversation.
01:29:51Me too.Yeah.And we just, we just, we just can.so much similar stuff. We really do. We really do. And I love that. It makes it really fun to get tolike riff off each other with.
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