Bookwild - Halley's Egypt Trip, Books We've Loved, Strange Darling, Oddity & The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

This week, I catch up with Halley Sutton who just got back from her trip to Egypt.  She shares highlights from the trip, and books she read while there, including one with Egypt as a setting.  We talk about bookish news and some 2025 books we are excited for, and dive into the movie Strange Darling, the movie Oddity and the TV show Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.  We basically cover it all!Books We Talked AboutThe God of the WoodsWhat the River KnowsThe FavoritesSay Nothing : Memory and MurderThis Book Will Bury MeTrial By AmbushThis Girl’s a KillerThe Astrology HouseHouse of Hunger TV Shows We Talked AboutSecret Lives of Mormon Wives Movies We Talked AboutStrange DarlingOddityMy Old Ass Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Our bookish world traveler has returned to the U.S. Hallie Sutton's here this week. Hello. I'm so happy to be back with you. I know. I am so excited. I was like every time you posted something, I was like a Taylor Swift fan. I was like, ooh, what are all the pictures mean? I know. And I have like 6,000 pictures from my trip. And that's like only slightly exaggerated. And I'm trying to figure out, I think I, I think I might try. to like put together like a digital scrapbook with some commentary about stuff and then that way i can kind of be like if you're interested you can look here versus me being like i don't know what

that would be cool yeah i would look through it watch for that maybe in a future howley said newsletter yeah i'm excited so it looked like you had a pretty good time like it looks like you were you were having fun so i have the most amazing time. So this was a trip of a lifetime. I went to Egypt and Jordan and I saw many of the highlights of Egypt. I definitely want to go back. I think one place that like is really intriguing to me is Alexandria and I didn't get to go there. And that's, you know, founded by Alexander the great has like where Cleopatra most likely had her palace, the famous library of Alexandria that burned just like a seed of a lot of like old ancient world thing. So here's the thing.

I don't know if you know about me, but I was obsessed with ancient Egypt as a kid. My favorite book that I read as a kid was a book called Mara Daughter of the Nile by Eloise Jarvis McGrath. And it's just this like great historical. I mean, they say some pretty slanderous thing about things about Egypt's first female pharaoh, which I'm like from a 2024 lens I don't love, but I loved that book. I wanted to be an Egyptologist until I figured out there was like no jobs for it. I mean, there are jobs, but like I don't, wasn't going to be me. And so this was really like the trip. And I saw the movie The Mummy like 17 times in theaters. And that's only, I don't, that may not be an exaggeration actually. Like I was a significant.

chunk of the box office. So going to Egypt is something I have always wanted to do. I felt very lucky to get to do it. I went with my parents. So it was really wonderful to experience that. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, to experience that trip of a lifetime with them too. So I have a few little highlights to share if that's cool. Go for it. Okay. So first thing I will say is we chose an aggressive time of year to go. We got there August 26th and left September 10th. And in Cairo, which is where I flew into, it was like 100 degrees.

Yeah, but it'll, don't worry, it'll get hotter as the story progresses. So flew into Cairo. I got to see this beautiful mosque that was, you know, dated to the 12th century. I saw the pyramids. I wrote a camel. I saw the Great Spinks. There's several pictures of me looking very frightened on a camel because the camel and I

not copacetic, you know? Oh, no. Just very, but like very cool. They're amazing animals. They're so weird looking, too. It's like, what's this like horse that had sex with an ostrich thing, you know? Yes. So we're in Cairo for a few days.

Excuse me. I'm sorry. I'm having allergies. Oh, you're fine. Me too. It's the time of year when Los Angeles is on fire. so there's just weird stuff in the air constantly. So then we were in Cairo for a few days, flew down to Luxor, which is the ancient city of Thebes.

And that's kind of really at the Nile Delta. So it's like we were in the greater Sahara kind of next to you with Cairo. And then you move kind of into like the lush valley of the Nile. So everything's green, looks very oasis. And in Luxor, it was 115 degrees. So that was pretty brutal, especially because it's not like you're walking around and doing stuff.

You know, you're climbing through these beautiful ancient temples that are 3,500 years old and just sweating, just like dripping sweat. So I won't go through the entire trip because we would be here for the next 14 hours. But a few of the highlights that I wanted to share was, I got to go to the Valley of the Kings, which is the ancient burial site for many of the pharaohs.

And so when I was there, I saw King Tut face to face, which was pretty crazy because they left him in the valley of the kings. It was crazy. It was amazing. And he's buried in this tiny little, his burial chamber was tiny because he was, I think, only 19 when he died. So they didn't expect him to die. So they didn't build his whole, they didn't get to build his whole beautiful tomb.

but there's also speculation that he was assassinated. And so part of that is that like the person who succeeded him, which was his high priest, took what was going to be his burial tomb. He married his widow and he was like, and I'm king now. So it doesn't paint a great picture of. No.

No. So that was amazing. I know, right? And so portats on face to face still looking good. You know, 3,000 years old looking pretty good. Maybe needs a little moisturization, but maybe not. And then we went to, so in the Valley of the Kings, like one of the most preserved tombs is this Sedi the First. And Setti the First was the father of Ramsey's the Great, who is kind of like, if you know one Pharaoh, that's probably who you know.

He's biblically, he's the Pharaoh who is Pharaoh with Moses. he was called the builder. He built a bunch of the, like, great temples and different things that are still standing today. He also lived to be 91, which is fucking nuts, considering ancient Egypt. Yeah. So, yeah, so this is his father. I'm not kidding, Kate. So you go down like 300 steps down into the earth.

No air conditioning, obviously. That's me being facetious, but there's no ventilation. So it's really hot down there. And it's just like I have lived in almost every apartment I've ever lived in has been smaller than this burial chamber. That is just like five or six different massive rooms. Everywhere you look, there's carvings and hieroglyphics. And it would have been filled like to the roof with the treasure that he would need in the afterlife. So it would just be like golden chariots, his crowns, all of this stuff there that's all been looted and robbed.

It was incredible. Yeah. So that was like a life-changing experience for me, getting to see that. I would probably have died of Kasma. Yeah, it was, and my dad did get a little bit of heat stroke coming back up from that one because it was so brutal. Yeah, he got a little sick, which was not great. But he's fine, listeners. But yeah.

And so then after the Valley of the Kings, we went over and saw Queen Hachepsut's Temple. She was the first female pharaoh in Egypt. Basically, so Egypt had a custom of, no better way to say it, but incest, of half-brothers and half-sisters would marry each other, basically to consolidate the power line. So she's married to her half-brother. They have children. Her half-brother dies. She becomes the queen regent for her son, who's like two.

And then basically is like, you know what? I think I should rule. And actually they had a very prosperous, peaceful reign under Queen Hatschepsut. But when her successor came of age, he like chiseled her face and name off of everything. So her temple is one of the few places where you can still see like the glory of her reign and what she wanted for herself. And she's the only woman to be buried in the Valley of the Kings because future female queens or pharaohs were all buried in the Valley of the Kings. I'm sorry, Valley of the Queens.

So she's buried in the Valley of the Kings has this massive temple. And she's buried like underneath the temple into the rock side. Just the feats of engineering were really crazy. So then we traveled further south down the Nile, which was such a dream to be, you know, Agatha Christieing it up on, you know, on a Nile boat. We stopped at one temple that was dedicated to Sobeck, who was the, The crocodile god is also kind of the god of like physicians and health care. But what that meant was that in the temple itself and ancient Egypt, they always kept a live crocodile being like the living version of the god. So just like in the middle of the temple, there's a live crocodile.

And we know this because there's a bunch of mummified crocodiles that they found buried behind the temple. So you go into this museum next to the temple and there's just all these ancient mummified crocodiles. How crazy is that? That is wild. I know crocodiles were mummified anywhere. I didn't either. It was amazing. So that was the temple of Comombo, which was really cool.

Yeah. So that was amazing. Yeah. And then one last thing I want to share about Egypt, which again, I could talk about this for days, but I'm trying to just hit some of the highlights. We flew back. So we flew all the way. We took the boat all the way down to Oswan in the south.

We went to Abu Simbel, which is this beautiful. temple that Ramsey's had carved for himself and won for his favorite of his 32 wives, Nefertari. But there, it's beautiful. It's like one of the ancient wonders of the world. Then flew back to Cairo for like a day or two. Our Egyptologist told us this. And I have not done the legwork to verify if this is true or not.

But what is true is that he told us Cairo has the oldest or the largest cemetery in the world. And I don't know if that's true or not. But I will say that like if you're driving across Cairo, there's like a four or five mile stretch where it's just cemetery on either side of you. So you're like in the highway and then there's cemeteries on either side. And the way that these cemeteries work is that people are buried pretty quickly in Egypt when they pass. But then their family members will build rooms on top of their graves, basically where they

can go, you know, pay their respects. And I think it's partially pragmatic because of the heat. So it's basically like a structure. you're not just standing out in the sun. But what is crazy about this is that in the 90s, 80s and 90s, when the housing market collapsed in Egypt, people started moving into these rooms in the cemetery. So at one point, there were 700,000 people living in the cemetery in Cairo, and they called it the Living City of the Dead, which is a great title for a book. Totally. And so you'll be driving past these cemeteries, and you'll see.

that they've also built the infrastructure of a city within the cemetery. So it'll be like tombs, tombs, tombs, tombs, there's a school, there's a soccer field, there's a hospital, tombs, tombs, tombs, and it's within the cemetery itself, which is crazy. And so at some point, one of the presidents of Egypt basically said, like, we're not doing this anymore. So he made most of the people leave. But there are still, they think about two to three thousand people who live in the cemetery in Cairo. how crazy is that? That is wild.

I'm looking at pictures of it right now because I'm like, my brain can't even come up with it. And then you're like, oh, okay. It was just how they're living. And it really just does look like kind of like like dwellings. Like it's really like if you didn't know that was a cemetery, you'd be like, oh, it's like a low rent housing district or something. Yeah.

Because they're not super sophisticated. They're not like high rises, but like you can tell the like structures. And so. Yeah. It was crazy. I know. He told me that. I guess. I know, right? Yeah. And my spooky little brain went into overdrive and was like, can I write a book about that? You know, just like, I don't know that I'm the right person to do it, but like that it would be an amazing. I would love to read it. So. Yes. Like what's taking place in like the little micro communities. Totally. And also like plenty of spooky potential. Yeah. So yeah. So then.

someone can write it if we don't write it right somebody picked that idea up yeah so then from cairo we flew over to jordan and while i was in jordan i got to see the dead sea and petra which was amazing i also got stopped by the antiquities police as i was trying to fly out of jordan for this little number a little stone scarab which is very cool yeah which is definitely not ancient but they were a little worrying it might be, which I get, like, obviously. Yeah. Want to protect the antiquities. Yes.

Oh, can you not hear me? My internet is being slow. Hold on one second. You're good. There you are. Yay. Okay, I can hear you. Yeah.

Okay. Good. Cool. Yeah, so I got stopped for my little stone scarab souvenir. And they took my passport away for a few minutes. And I was like, oh, no, do I live? have been Jordan now, but then it was totally fine. That's good. Well, that would be nerve-wracking, though. Yeah, it was a little bit. I was sort of like, oh, uh-oh, there's a big language barrier here.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's what's always scary about, because that shows up in thrillers. Like when you're in another country and something bad goes down and you're like, uh, I don't know what to do here. Totally, right? Like, yeah, we get so used to, I mean, I think we all think that our way of life is the default way of life and traveling really like puts you up against that idea of like nope there's tons of ways and just because you're used to doing it one way doesn't mean it's right and you're like oh no right not everybody wants to know that or hear that right totally yeah so you were there was that three weeks then two three it was two two weeks yeah two solid weeks and then basically like 24 hours of travel to get home um but you

Yeah, it was the most amazing experience. That's so cool. Probably of my life. Yeah. Yeah. Because you, like, wanted to since you read that book, right? Like, you basically wanted to at least visit. Oh, yeah.

I, like, so I read Mara daughter of the Nile and then I became obsessed with Egyptian history. So I read everything I could get my hands on. Tried to teach myself how to read hieroglyphics. Didn't go great, but, like, I tried as a kid. I used to, I had this, like, terrible habit. I'm a teacher's daughter and, like, this is where it maybe shows up. is like, I guess the homework that my teacher was assigning wasn't enough. And maybe this is just like the seed of being a future writer and like wanting something to do with your brain all day.

But I would like assign myself projects. And so I would be like, okay, this month we're going to learn everything we can about like Cleopatra. And then I would write up little reports and give them to my teacher to grade. And she finally called home and was like, please, like your daughter is making extra work for me. We didn't assign this. I don't want it. Like, I have a life. I can't just be reading, like, things she's turning in.

And my mom was like, we've got to get you a few more hobbies. Right. Oh, my gosh. That's so cute, though. Thank you. You were taking it to her. Oh, yeah. I was like, I would like a gold star in an A.

Thank you. You're like, more gold stars, please. Yes, exactly. I feel you there. I feel you on that one. Mine was like, I mean, obviously I'm not trying to say this. sound like, I never want to sound like overly intellectual because people are so annoying in that realm sometimes. But my second grade teacher started giving me separate spelling tests because

everything was so easy for me. Look at you. So you had me harder once so I could learn more words. And I was like, hoo-hoo. And everyone's like harder. And I'm like, I don't know, it's fun. Yeah, totally. Did you ever participate in spelling bees? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't think I won. I don't think I did. You were robbed. You were robbed. We need a recount. Yeah. Yeah. Probably actually, because I was the salutatorian. It was probably, it actually probably was the valedictorian who beat me. Saludatory. Look at you. Go girl. Yeah. I'm a little, I'm a, well, I'm bookish all around and schoolish. Yeah. I get it. Those things off. go hand in hand. Yeah, typically. Did you read anything while you were on vacation? Yes, I did. So I don't know about you, but like one of the great joys of travel for me, like I don't care about the clothes I pack, like whatever, like just pack something. I sit there and do like a Hunger Games-esque, like, or like, I guess maybe like a basketball March Madness bracket of which books I'm going to bring. Like I start with like 20

and I'm like, okay, this one or this one. And I like let it marinate for weeks. Like I have thought before that I should do some sort of TikTok content about it because it is like a little bit ridiculous. You probably should. I really should. Yeah. But I brought, I think I brought eight books, which was aggressive. I will say that was aggressive for a two week trip.

But I think I read like six of them. So I got pretty close. But, well, I mean, I had a couple of really long flights where. Oh, that's. know, it wasn't a lot to do besides stare straight ahead at a movie or a book. Yeah. So I had, I would say, three big highlights, actually four of the books that I read were really excellent.

I read The God of the Woods by Liz Moore. Oh, I want to read it. I just have not fitted in. It's so good. Okay. So I have to read it. It's so good. she's such a good writer.

The characters are so interesting. She does some really interesting stuff with perspective. I actually don't think I'd read any of her books before, even though her last book, Long Bright River, won the Edgar a couple of years ago. And she's somebody who I like know of and have a lot of respect for. But I hadn't read any of her work before. And I read God of the Woods and it just like floored me.

it was so good. Yeah. So the premise of that one, just kind of briefly, is this rich family owns this plot of land that runs a summer camp for kids every year, kind of like a survival camp. Like they're supposed to learn skills to like survive in the woods. And one year, their teenage daughter, Barbara, attends the summer camp and goes missing from the summer camp. And what's odd about that?

So there's this forward narrative of like, where's Barbara? Are we going to find her? What happened to her? there's all these things that happened the last night she was there and you're kind of getting all these perspectives piecing it together but the piece that makes it really kind of crazy and bizarre is that Barbara's older brother bear went missing like 15 years before and has never been recovered and so it's this sort of like how do these two mysteries relate to each other how do they play into each other what's going on there and it's just yeah everybody who reads it loves it so good and like

It's one of those books where I don't know about you, but like sometimes when a book gets so much hype, there's a part of me that's resistant to it. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I know it's going to be great. I get it. And then I read it and I was like, fuck, it really is great. Oh, my God. It really is. That's amazing.

Yeah. So I read that one. Chris Whitaker's is the other one that I all, is it all the colors of the dark? Yes, which I also haven't read. I haven't either. I need to. We should do a podcast episode. You can cut this out.

if you want, but we should do a podcast episode of all the big hype books we haven't read. That's a really good idea. Yeah, we should do that sometime. I like that idea. I love that too. I love that. I'll totally do that. Because I think in the reason I pair those two together too is they're both like 500 page books. Totally. I didn't get it on net galley. I didn't get either of them. And so I've just been having to read for interviews. And if I, otherwise, I'm like, I don't know if I can read 500 pages before my next book. Totally. No, I get that. They're investments. They are big investments, but it was, it's really good. Yeah, I want to read it. Yeah. And so then let's see. I also read the book What the River Knows by Isabel Ibanez, which is a little more, there's mystery elements

to it. It's a little more, I think it was pitched as, um, Death on the Nile meets the Mummy and has like a little bit of like supernatural elements to it. And it's about this young woman who, her parents are Egyptologists and they leave her for six months out of every year in Buenos Aires, where she's grown up to go to Egypt and to explore and excavate. And on one of their missions, she finds out they both died. And no one can tell her what happened or why,

just that they're dead. And so she decides she's going to go to Egypt. And I think it's set in like the 1890s. She's going to go to Egypt. and find out what happened to them. Yeah. And it was, it's Y.A. And it's got some romance in it, which I found very enjoyable.

It was just very enjoyable. And it was very fun to be reading it as I was myself making a very similar journey. Yeah. So that was really cool. And it was just really fun. And so I, I would say I really enjoyed the book, but I wasn't sure if I was going to read the next book in the series. And then there's. like a last page mic drop where I was like, well, okay, I guess I'm reading the next book.

Like it was like, oh my God. Yeah. How often does that happen? That happens to me very rarely. Oh, yeah. Same. Yeah, because a lot don't have like true cliffhangers at the end. Totally. And I was like, and it just like upended my full understanding of what had happened in the book before in a way that was like very satisfying and very like, okay, now what? Now what? Yeah. Yeah. That is exciting. Yeah.

So highly recommend that one. And I think the sequel, something, oh. What you say it was called again? What the River knows. What the River knows. Yes. And there's a sequel coming out, I believe this month, actually. And it's something like hidden in the library or something, some reference to a library,

which I think is the library of Alexandria. But we'll find out. I also got to read my arc. Everybody be super jealous. Oh, yeah. Of the favorites by Lane Fargo, which if you don't know, why don't you know, but it's great. It is a retelling of Wuthering Heights set in the world of ice dancing. And it's very emotional and sweeping takes place over the course of 20 years and is kind of this like melodramatic passionate romance between cat and heath rocha and they're both pair skaters and how they come together and it's about ambition and artistry and love and like what actually brings us everlasting nourishment it's really great a really fun read very like soap opera

and in the best way. Yeah. And dramatic and fun. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. I have it, but I'll probably read it closer to pub date. I have it on that galley, but.

That's totally fair. I'm so tempted. It's long. It's a beast too. It is a long book, but it is, it flies by for sure. Yeah. Oh, boy. I'm so excited.

Yeah, it's great. Did you see? I got my. I got my Ashley Winstead arc. Oh, you did! This book will bury me? Yes. Okay.

I just finished that last week and it's so good and I can't wait to hear what you think about it. Oh, I read it already. I got the PDF of it. So, yeah, because I'm going to blurb it and which maybe I, ah, look at how beautiful. It's a stunner. I know. It's so pretty. And it's good.

This is one where I'm really torn because we. scheduled an interview for February. And I'm like, I want to have read it fresh then. I don't know if I can wait that long. I get it. And I loved it. I like, I love all of Ashley's work. There isn't a book of hers that I've read that I haven't been obsessed with. But this book is just really something special. And she does some very tricky things. Like it's sort of meta. It's sort of meta. It's like I don't know I don't know how to explain it and I don't want to give anything away which is something I want to talk about when we talk about the movie that I also want us to talk about oh my gosh I know how do you discuss something without being like there's a twist here

which primes an audience to like I know look for something but like she does some really cool meta stuff within the book about like true crime and writing true crime and just like I want to live in her brain yeah I know I know I'm so excited to read it. Because it's like I also could read it early and write my questions after I read it and then just keep them until the interview. So we'll see. It'll be, I don't envy you. It's a tough one to decide if you want to read it earlier or not. So and then I read one other book that I want to squeal about a little bit, which is a nonfiction book. And it came out years ago and it was a big book when it came out, but I hadn't read it yet.

But there's going to be a TV show on Hulu made inspired by the book coming out, I think, either this month or next. And it's called Say Nothing, a true story of memory and murder in Northern Ireland by Patrick Radin-Keefe. And it is about the troubles in Ireland, the longstanding conflict, which I knew the broad strokes of. Like I'm a fan of the TV show Dairy Girls and was sort of like, all right, like I understand this history from this lens, but goes much more in depth than to it and what was at stake in some of the history, particularly of the more recent part of the conflict. But it does it through the lens of this woman who is kind of an infamous murder victim of the troubles, went missing for a long time, would not be confirmed murdered for a long time. she had 10 children when was basically yanked out of her home and her kids never saw her again. And it's like what happened to Jean McConville. And so he uses this kind of her as the jumping off point to like give you a fuller picture of this history.

And it is so good. If you like nonfiction, if you like historical and true crime, it is just like impeccably researched, impeccably written, very complex, nuanced subject that's treated that way where you come out of it not necessarily feeling like anybody's clean and it's just was like so good. I loved it. You got me wanting to read nonfiction. I actually, the other arc I got that I'm definitely going to read nonfiction, Marshall Clark wrote a nonfiction trial by ambush about a woman who was like wrongly accused of a crime. And it was like, this publicist I work with. They sent me and they were like, would you be interested? And I'm like, I'm reading nonfiction. That's what's going to happen. If I can talk to Marsha Clark.

I know. That's what I was just going to ask. Are you going to get to interview her? Yes. Yeah. And I just got that part too. Yeah, let's see it. Look at that. Murder injustice and the truth about the case of Barbara Graham. Trial by ambush. I'm writing that down. I'm looking that one up. It comes out in a November 12th. Okay. Wow, wow, wow. I've just been getting all the arcs this week.

Look at you. I just got Danielle Truisone's one, the puzzle box. Oh, nice. Yeah. Let me know what you think of that. I know, I will. It's the next one I'm going to read. So I'll know soon.

Okay, so on that notes, do you find yourself, we're now officially, it's October 2nd when we're speaking, it's officially fall, spooky season is in the air. Do you feel like you change what you read seasonally or like what you're drawn to? I know you're also reading so much for the podcast and for different things that it's kind of dictated by arts, but I'm just curious if you like notice a shift in your reading with the seasons because I definitely do. So I would say probably like I read like 15% more or like I'm like 15 to 20% more likely to read like dark academia or. something that's a little horror-e.

And so I think I can't remember. Oh, I did talk about this on the podcast like three weeks ago. But why can't I think of her last name? Alexis Henderson has a book column coming out called Academy for An Academy for Lyers. Something like that. Yes. Yes, yes. And I loved it.

It is like this really cool blend. of dark academia, horror, for sure. There's psychological magic and, like, bad magic and, like, action all taking place on this this secret campus that is, like, encapsulated in magic in Savannah. So, like, nobody knows about it except the people that get invited to it. So she gets invited. I was obsessed. Like it is a bloody like gritty dark dark academia thriller and it was so good.

So that sounds amazing. That one was like I was I read it in September, but I was because it comes out in October. And I feel like that is like I would read more books like that in the fall for sure. So like I just read her book House of Hunger, which is also really good. And it's like historical fantasy, not even fantasy. It's historical something like gothic historical thriller where basically living in a society where people have blood maids and so they like drink their blood. But it's like you can go from living on the streets to like being incredibly wealthy just because you let wealthy people drink your blood. Wow.

It's such a fun concept. And so it was just wild and out there. cover is really cool and the cover is very spooky. So I do, I do think I read like more of that in general, but I'm not someone who like, like I can still read a summer thriller right now. For sure. In the summer, I, summer, sometimes I read a winter thriller and I'm like, thank God at least in my fictional world. It's cold. That's amazing. Yeah. So how about you? Yeah, I do the same thing too, where again, it's like, it's not like I only read seasonal. but I do notice that like, like, yeah, especially in the fall, I guess with the summer books too,

like summer thrillers, like I do sometimes feel drawn to like things that have that sort of like heated poolside feel. Yeah. But then in the fall, I'm like definitely dark academia. I'm also really drawn to like British stuff, which I guess is my version of it. Like, like I was kind of pulling out some books on my, from my shelves being like, I think I want to read these in the next few weeks. and one that popped up was Agatha Christie. Oh, I don't remember the title. It's her really famous, the one that she famously pulls off, again, a twist with.

Let me look it up because it'll drive me crazy. But then another one was one about the Yorkshire Ripper, like a nonfiction account. Like for some reason, my version of all is like, oh, time to go to England. You know, I don't know what that's about. but I get it though. Like it makes me think a broad church. I don't know if you watch that on Netflix. Yes, yes, yes.

That's like a fall vibe. Yes. The murder of Roger Ackroyd is the one that I pulled from my shelf that I want to read this fall. Nice. And then I have this feeling, I have this like pet suspicion and I'm sure somebody you'll be like, yeah, other people have written about this at length. I think dark academia partially comes out of, I mean, you could trace the roots older. Like I think the secret history by Donna Tart is probably one. like the big ones.

But I also think part of the reason it's become such a hit is that it's like all the kids who grew up with Harry Potter are now adults and want to return to that like Hogwarts dark atmosphere, but like from a more adult lens. That's what I think is going on with academia. I think I've got to agree with you because when I was talking about Academy for Liars, like for the first time I was telling people, I was like it actually is a lot like it's a Harry Potter concept but like rated R. Totally. That's what it sounded like. Yeah. Yeah. And I wrote it down because I need to read that. That sounds right up my alley. Oh, I think you'll love it. It was so good and so atmospheric. She's talented. Yeah. I'm going to talk to her next week. Oh, my gosh. That's exciting. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm super excited. Yeah. I wrote down House of Hunger too. I'll read them and report back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also there's like too many pages. So. Oh, nice. Quick, quick jaunt.

mentioning dark academia. I want to squeal about something that I think you probably saw the news about, which is that Society of Lies by Lauren Ling Brown is Reese Wooden's book club pick. I was so excited for her. I am so happy for her. That was so I like tagged her in a reel and she DM me and she was like, oh my God, in 30 minutes they're going to announce that it's a Reese book club pick. And I was like, what?

And I was like, I hope this is going to be one of the ones that she turns into a TV show. And I was like, every episode could switch between. between the perspectives. It would be so cool. It will be so cool. Honestly, we should get you in the development room because it sounds like she said. She was like, I hadn't even thought of that. Like, yeah, we need to do that.

Yeah. I'm so excited for her. It's such exciting news. So great. And I get to do a live conversation with her on Friday. So I'm really excited about that too. So we got. I love that you guys are like also little besties.

Yeah. We went to lunch two days ago. I know. We're making a little trying. I'm going to make it out there eventually. Yes, you better. I'm going to do all the, like, I'm going to take that or Austin or Houston. There are like tons of thriller authors there too.

That's very true. I think Amy Gentry lives in Austin. Yeah. Among other people. But yeah, if you come out to California to L.A., I will take you on like my spooky cemetery tours. I know. I know.

See where Toto, the dog is varied. It'll be great. Yes. Oh, my gosh. It will be so fun. It's going to happen. We don't know when. but it's going to happen.

But it will, for sure. Yes. It will. And then I'll be like, which books did you pack? I know. And I'm like, my phone. It has all of them. Yeah, exactly.

I have a library, Hallie. Getting into the 21st century. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. We'll make it happen for sure. For sure. Well, I have read, I read a couple here recently that were very fun. Oh, do tell.

This one, I mean, not that I have two, but like not that you shouldn't read the other one too but like this one is like it has such a similar tone to the lady upstairs meets dexter okay but it was reminding me of that okay so it's called this girl's a killer it's by emma c wells you may have seen some of her brilliant marketing i have yes yeah so she built a whole life whole real life size like Barbie box for this book and has been taking it to different conferences. I think, is it Boucher or Boucher Con? Boucher Con. Boucher. It's neither. I know. It should be, it should be like Boucher Khan, I think, but like everybody just says Boucher Con. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that was the first one she took it too, but people can definitely go. I think she's

Emacy Well's author. I can't totally remember, but she's on Instagram. You'll be able to find her. but she built a whole Barbie box and has been doing like press with it. I'm like, this is brilliant. So I'm at like 60% so I'll probably just read the synopsis so that I don't spoil anything. But meet Cordelia Black. Cordelia loves exactly three things. Her chosen family, composed of her best friend Diane and her goddaughter, her hairdresser, worth every penny plus tip in killing bad men. By day, she's a successful pharmaceutical rep with a pristine reputation and a designer wardrobe. By night, she's calling South Louisiana of unscrupulous men, monsters who always seem to evade justice until they meet her. It's a complicated yet fulfilling life that requires complete and total control at all times.

But when the evening news starts throwing around the word serial killer, pressure heightens for her in the south, and it's only exacerbated when Diane starts dating a man Cordelia is sure as not. not a good person. Someone who might unravel everything Cordelia has worked for with her found family. Soon Cordelia's world spirals, and that is not an exaggeration. Her world is falling apart at the point that I'm in, and she loses her grip on those tightly held threads that keep her safe. It is blowing my socks off. And I don't use that term, and that's just what came to my mind. I love that. That sounds, I mean, that sounds so up my alley also. Like, that sounds great. Very, they never learned by Lane Fargo too.

That too. Yes. Yeah. Very much. It's kind of cool too because it's making me realize like I think I just hadn't thought of Dexter in a while since I watched it so long ago. But I'm like, Dexter, snarky. Yeah.

I haven't thought of it. And I was like, they're actually that he is a really good example of a snarky male character. I always think of it with females. But like it's so cool because like everything that's actually happening and the details of her life are nothing like Dexter's life. But it's not just that she's like killing bad people. It's also like her inner monologue is the kind of fun that you have listening to like Dexter's inner monologue throughout.

I totally get that. It's so good. Like I think at the part of the reason those thrallers are so successful and that I think they're so fun for people is that you get to be like an avatar into this like snarky, bitchy murderous that you would never, none of us aspire to be that in real life. really but like that it like allows you to live in this way that is like outside of who you would normally be and I think that's so fun yes yes it's really good I was like truly trying to like keep my eyes open last night so I could try to finish it but I just can't I wish I wish I could get so into a book

that I would stay up all night like I'm fine sacrificing sleep but I can't I fall asleep we're we're older now you know like I do that when I was like 15 and now I'm like that's a good point My brain's like, no, we need to stop for today. Right, exactly. Like, it's night night time. We're done. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So the other one, though, is this really cool story. So, have you read the astrology house by Corinne Jade? No. Okay. So I hadn't either. I remember seeing it. It came out in July.

I remember seeing it like a bunch on the feeds, but I just, like, hadn't requested it. And a lot of people were just giving it pretty good. good reviews but anyway um so cool cool podcasting crossover story i had chelsea beaker who wrote madwoman on the podcast um and then so then i was following her and then she shared she was on this podcast called pop fiction women and i was like that title sounds like someone i need to follow totally so i followed their podcast and it's corin and kate their two co-hosts together and they like cover fiction

whether it's books, TV shows, movies that women write or produce or are in charge of and part of the reason they do that because then I got obsessed and I went to their website and had to read everything about them. Their about section is that Corinne was listening to something

after Gone Girl came out and it was like a two-hour conversation about it. And these podcasters were talking about how great Ben Affleck was and how great the direction was from David. Thank you. I almost said Flincher. And I was like, that's not right. Honestly, that's like a spookier version of his name, though.

I like it. Right. And she was like, so I listened to two hours of it. And literally not once did we talk about Gillian Flynn, who wrote the book, who adapted the screenplay who like was nominated for her screenplay didn't talk about her didn't talk about Amy done like just didn't even touch on any of that and she was so mad that she called her friend up and she was like do you want to do a podcast with me where we talk about things that women create and I'm like that is the coolest origin story ever that really is and like how do you talk about

gone girl without talking about like this central woman experience of it where Like that to me is part of what makes that book so powerful. It's why it's like it's first of all, it's a great story. It's really well written, but it's also like Amy Dunn's cool girl speech is iconic for a reason. And it really gets to the heart of like these dynamics that like women experience. And I think that's why it resonated with so many people besides being such a great story.

Like how do you talk about that without mentioning that's what I said to her too. I was like especially that movie. Like that movie we're not talking about. of the women involved. Right. Right. And there's plenty of like male-fronted media, plenty, that you could be like, yeah, I guess we're not talking about the women part of it, which is like bullshit anyway. But like, you know what I mean? But like, how do you talk about Gone Girl without talking about the women? I somehow, whoever that was did. And so now we have Pop Fiction Women, though, which is really fun to listen to. So. Awesome. So I started out. Yeah. So I started

following them and then i was like oh i remember seeing her name everywhere on a book so karen jade wrote the astrology house um that came out this july and i loved it it was very cool the this one i think i think i can probably give the gist of it without giving any spoilers but um basically it is a like really pretty gabled beach house um where the owner reeney conducts astrology retreats So like you could come and stay and then like you get your personal readings. You got readings with your spouse or your friends or whatever. And everything's like themed with astrology basically for these trips. And so six of them go out there.

It's loosely connected to each other. Like, oh, that's that person's friend. And then his spouse. So they're connected enough. And six people go on this retreat. And basically we start. finding out that everyone has secrets naturally. Of course.

And you shift through five different POVs the whole time. And I thought, and I told her, I just interviewed her yesterday. It's so hard to give five people complete character arcs. Totally. And it's pretty cool. Yeah. And so like all of their secrets basically blow up in their face. And it's like watching what happens as that happens.

That's awesome. Okay. I can't wait to read that. That sounds great. Yeah. And you kind of learn a little bit. I don't know tons about astrology. So you learn a little bit about it. It's not a spoiler. But I thought this was so cool. The way she helps you like get to know the characters is like there's like their chart that the like host is looking at. So then you like get to know the characters that way too. That's really cool. I was wondering if she was going to play with that in there at all. And I love when people do that. That makes me think not that everything goes back to my Egypt trip. But one thing. Right now it does. Right.

We went to one temple, I think it was Dendera, which was beautiful. But it has what they believe is the first ever zodiac that they actually think it came out of Egypt because all of the creatures on the zodiac are actually associated with Egyptian gods. So they think that like the zodiac, which is technically Greek, but they think a Greek philosopher came to Egypt, saw this wheel and used that as the. template for the zodiac. Isn't that cool? That is so cool. Yeah. You just look at it. Just casually, you know. I was amazing. Yeah, exactly like, what's up? Yeah. Yeah, it was cool, though. And like, she kind of, she kind of does some cool stuff with like free will versus fate. And so we had some fun conversations. That's really cool. Yeah. Amazing. Oh. My book list just grows and grows every time I talk with you, Kate.

I know. I know. This is the danger of podcasting about books. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. I know. And I have like so many.

I just have so many I want to read lately. I want to have you the last party by A.R. I don't know if it's Tori or tour. I don't know. Everyone's losing their minds about it. I've heard good things too. And I haven't read it yet. But yes.

Yeah. I need to read the puzzle box next. And then I think I might pick up the last party. We'll see. I also saw J.T. Ellison's new one is an Amazon first reads pick. So I have that one too. And that one sounds so fun. Like the high concept of it all is that like a murder writer is murdered like she was in one of her books. And then her daughter's trying to figure out who did it. Love it. Love that. Yeah. That's so great. I think that sounds like so much fun. reminded me I need to check my Amazon first reads because maybe I'll pick that one too. Yeah, and you can get two this month. You know how sometimes they randomly do that? Yeah. Oh, good. So multiple arenas for me to just be like piling books on books. Yeah, just get them everywhere. Can I ask, how is writing going for you? We can cut this out of the podcast if you don't want to talk about it. No, you're good. It's not going bad. It's just going

slow. We had so many car problems coming up. So we kicked it into gear with business and thankfully the work showed up. So that has been the focus because we had a car just completely stopped working. And it was not paid off yet. So there's just been a lot of that in the last two weeks, but I do you feel like I got to kind of a fun spot. I don't know how to say with what, but some things are starting to like fall into place where I was like seeing how they're going to build to the ending. So that's like a good feeling. Isn't that like a magical feeling when you're like. Yeah.

Yeah. And like I feel like I got a grasp of I think at this when I have a grasp of like all my characters where like when we did the writing challenge, that was when I had the realization that I just needed to write about this family from like third omniscient. And then then it was like, okay. so now I know what my main character's headed into and it's like that helps a lot that's awesome oh it's so exciting I can't wait to read it I know I know I want to I want to get some more time because I do want to finish and I like feel like I have momentum but yeah it's been a lot of editing I get it I get it and that's like the hard part about being like I don't know I think that's reality for most writers right is that like writing is 100 percent of day job yeah and so it's just like

sometimes it's hard to balance those people who like consistently turn out a book a year I'm so impressed by and also just like how teach me yeah how I don't I know I don't know how you do it and have a job like if it was the only thing you had to do maybe sure even then though like I think for me what I've noticed about myself and I don't know if you have similar experiences but like it's a delicate balance if I have too much time to work on something I start to like collapse under the weight of like, I should be writing all the time and I'm not. And like, you know, like it's almost like you have to have a balance between enough time to work on it, but not so much time that you can like get so in your head about it.

I hope you're enjoying this episode of Book Wild. And if you are, could I ask you a favor? Could you go and rate and review this podcast and whatever platform you're listening? Ratings and reviews make the biggest difference in discoverability of the podcast. And I definitely want to find all of our fellow thriller readers out there. So if you could go rate the podcast and leave a short review, that would make a huge difference. Thank you. And let's get back to the show. Sometimes having too much time, if you overthink, you just fill it with overthinking. Totally, for sure. Or like Netflix, you know, watching every single thing. Or Netflix or TikTok. Or TikTok. Oh, God. TikTok. I'm trying to put myself on like, I've stepped away from TikTok a little bit just because it was like, it's the only one where I lose time where like all of a sudden they'll look up and I've been like, I've been doing this for an hour? Like, what?

Yeah, especially when Tyler gone's that Tyler gone's when Tyler's gone, I will do the same. We're like, I'll be like, I'll just scroll it and then I'll switch to my book. And then it's like an hour and a half later. Right. And you're like, did I just, what happened? I just stepped into like a time wormhole. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a little too good. The algorithm is too good. The algorithm is too good. So should we talk about strange darling? I think we should. We should try.

I think we should try to. Yeah. Well, so we're going to, we're going to not spoil anything. I'll cut anything if we spoil stuff. So you guys can keep listening. But I know I mentioned it on like one other podcast, but I don't think I even talked about it much. So most people don't know how obsessively. It might have been just the one with you telling you to or no, I texted you. You texted me. And I was like, like, you were just like, have you seen strange darling? You should go see it. Don't look up anything beforehand. Just go. And I was like, okay. And I knew you were like on your way. out of the country. And so I'm like, if you have time before you leave. I like looked. There was like one showing I could get to before I left, but I was just like, I just don't like I was, I was like, I still have to pack. And so, but it was like one of the first things I did when I came back was Oh nice. So it was still in theaters when you got back. That's good. Okay. Because it's sometimes with the like indie, because it was definitely an indie film. Sometimes they're like only there for like two weeks and then they just disappear. Totally. So I didn't watch you to miss it. But I'm glad you got to see it in theater. It's so good. Yeah.

So what is the best? I mean, even trying to, you can try to do a summary as well. I'm maybe going to look up what they say. So I, so here's what I, so here's a few things I'm going to say about it. Yeah. Try not to spoil anything. So the movie starts with like a crawl of words. And it basically says that I think in 2018 or 2019, the country's most prolific serial

killer went on like a spree before being out. apprehended. And that's, that's like a fictionalized story or like that's the story we're about to see based on like reconstruction of what happened. And one thing that I think is really interesting about that is that I, I don't know about you, but I was pretty interested. I, I really enjoyed the movie. I, I didn't think it was always, I wouldn't say it was like a 100% perfect movie, but I really, really liked it. I thought it was beautifully shot, crazily well acted, really well done. like in a non-linear structure. But so I was so obsessed with it that I went,

I started looking up articles afterwards. And one thing that I was curious about was like, was this actually based on any real serial killer? And the filmmakers have been very cagey about that. And it just is like, which honestly, I'm actually less interested in whether or not it's based on a true person and more what the idea that it might be kind of does to your viewing experience. And like I think that's always something that's interesting to

in books when somebody says something where it kind of blurs the lines between reality and not in this really interesting way. And I thought that that was a very interesting part that they included with it. So then you- Fargo. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Where it's like- Yeah, they've stuck with that. Yeah. Totally. And it's like Fargo, I think the OG, the movie was based on a case. But if you look it up, it's like pretty far from what actually happened in the movie. It's just like, yeah, there was a guy who murdered his wife in North Dakota. Right. But then it's become like a hallmark of the show that they say that too. And it's so interesting. It's like it's almost like the movie or the TV show creating its own

mythology. And like, where is that in real life? It's really cool. Yeah. And it's set in Oregon. I think I can say that without it being any spoiler. So it's all these like beautiful, saturated. Like one thing that they talked about in interviews that I read and that I noticed was that I feel like if you see a lot of thrillers now, they're kind of gray cast. Like everything is kind of gray and blue and feels very rainy and like desolate. This movie, yeah, is like beautifully in color. So much light red. So much bright red. The sunlight filtering through the trees. It's like a fairy tale. It's beautiful. Yeah. And I thought that really added

to it too. It does. It does. I'm really talking around it. I know. We just are. We just are. And like, it's that after the text rolls, like this is the synopsis that they have for it. Nothing is what it seems when a twisted

one night stand spirals into a serial killer's vicious murder spree. We can tell you that. And we can tell you that the first scene, because it's what would see in the trailer. The first scene is Mike, is it Micah Monroe? No. No. This isn't Micah Monroe. It's, that was, um, Micah Monroe is from long legs. Her name is Willa something. After I said it, I was like, wait a second. Yeah. Willif is Gerald. Willif is Gerald. Yes.

So like the opening scene is her like in a, in like red scrubs, like nurse scrubs almost. with like blood dripping somewhere from her face and she's like running kind of in slow motion out of the trees basically and there's a man eventually following her with a truck and a gun so that's what it opens up with but the really cool thing and I have it in my notes

because I took a lot of notes when I was watching this one because we were alone in the theater. I love it. I think it starts in chapter three. The way that they actually handle it being nonlinear is really cool because, yeah, so chapter three is the first chapter. So then all of a sudden, like, we get into it and there's like a title card that says chapter three, can you help me please?

And so we start on chapter three, then you go to five, then to chapter one, chapter four, chapter two, and then chapter six. So like you bounce all around and the thing that was so fascinating to me to think about is like how still within a three-act structure. Yeah. Like even being non-linear, all of the reveals to the audience fit in the right place, even though the story's out of order. So it's in like almost telling the story out of order is what makes the story so good and makes it work and hit all the beats. you're totally right I hadn't thought of that but you're so right

it's like you can see very clearly like they don't cheat right like the story is you could there's a version of the movie that you could watch chapter one to chapter six and it would all fit together but instead they stagger the structure

for a variety of reasons and you're totally right it still works like perfectly yeah the reveal is to you like at that midway point you're like what? Totally. Okay.

I loved it. I'm obsessed. I am, well, I'm having a hiccup attack right now. I am trying so hard to get connected to the director because he wrote it, the writer director. And I got connected to the writer director of Audity,

which I saw like the week before. And I really loved that. And so I interviewed him. That episode came out last week. But this J.T. Malner, who did Strange Darling, doesn't have an Instagram. He's just one of those cool people. You just can't get in touch with. One of those cool kids.

And I'm like, bro, I want to talk to you. Totally. You'd have a great conversation with him. Okay. So I haven't listened to the whole episode yet, but I did see that you spoke with the director of Audity. And based on what you said about it and your conversation with him, I watched it last weekend with my friends.

It was so good. It was so good. It was so good. Yes. It was so suspenseful, so weird. That creature, the like, uh. The wood. Yes.

Yes. Oh, it was so good. I was like screaming. At one point, I did scream, actually, out loud. I don't blame you. Yeah. Was it the tune with the tent in the camera? No, but that one was like, I was like,

I had created like I had blocked everything so that I had like the smallest like angle that I could see that I was just like I don't want to see it I don't want to see it I you what he did such a good job of what the movie did such a job of was like the suspense like how long they dragged out that suspense and like the opening setup is so fucking good because it's so creepy where this man comes to the door of a woman who's staying alone in this like abandoned castle and like and. And he's like, somebody's in there. You need to let me in there. And you're like, and he looks visibly kind of off. And so you're like, no, no, of course she's not going to let you in there. But then it like starts to shift and you're like, oh, fuck, maybe there is someone in there. And it's like it's concerned. Yeah.

Right. And you're like, you don't know if the danger is inside or outside. And it's like, it was so well done. Yes. I loved it. I thought it even used tropes. And he talks about that too. Like he has a lot of favorite tropes.

It still feels like a really unique take on like a and I talked to him about that too. It's like it is a whodunit. It's paranormal. It's horror. It is like a textbook thriller too. There are twists. Like I loved it so much. But that scene, the one where you were saying you really like couldn't even look that on our way to the theater.

So I heard about this movie. because of film Joe, I think is his name on TikTok. There are two guys, or Cinema Joe, Cinema Joe on TikTok. He and someone else whose name, I can't remember and I feel very bad, are my favorite people that I get my movie news from. And so after we had seen Long Legs, which like, we have that discussion about whether it was terrifying for you or just like fun to watch, Cinema Joe was like, I liked Long Legs, but this is the scariest movie I've seen this year and you need to go

see it. And I was like, okay, we've got to go do it. And so on the way there, I was telling Tyler, I was like, I was like, I'm trying to think of like, because I was kind of nervous to go see something that scary in the theater. And I'm like, what is it that makes you just like, like, that you couldn't even handle seeing it in public. So we were just talking about that. We sit there, a movie starts or whatever. We get to that scene. And again, it doesn't spoil anything for anyone, but the scene with a tent and a camera and Tyler looks over it, meaning he's like, this is terrifying. Yes. Yeah.

It's terrifying. There's a master for job of drawing out the suspense moments, which I think is like so horror in particular, we all know the beats of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like you know, like as soon as you see her taking pictures, setting up the camera to take pictures around,

you're like, fuck, that's coming in. You know, like you know these things. Sorry, I've been really swearing a lot this. Oh, I do too. Please do. Thank you. They do such a masterful job. drawing it out because it's almost like the principle of the movie Jaws, which is that like the more

you see the shark, the less scary it is. So he does such a good job of like living in those moments where you don't know exactly what's coming. You just know that it is and it's going to be bad. And you're just like, just don't do it, you know. Oh, but it's so good. It is so good. I loved it. And I don't know if you guys can hear my dogs, but I don't think it's super loud if you do hear them. I rewatched it the morning before the interview because it was like I saw it. And then I interviewed him six weeks later and thankfully he was on streaming. And it just so played out that we were just so busy with work that week that like I was like going to bed after I finished work. So I was watching this at like 4.30 in the morning because I was like I've got I'm just going to have to wake up early.

I can't bring myself to watch this right now at night. I'm exhausted. So I was watching it like 430. but that also meant it was like totally dark so it was like watching it at night i knew the things that were going to be happening and i still like was flinching away from stuff i was like this is just it's just that good it's good filmmaking because it's like again like when i got to the end of it there's there's a couple of things that were really unique about the movie but a lot of it like oh that sounds like i'm saying something bad and i don't mean to be it's playing with a lot of very

familiar beats but it does it so well that like this The experience almost is more than the parts to me is how I felt about it, where it's like, and then there were a few truly original twists on it. But like the, again, it's the jump scares that you know are coming, but doing such a masterful job of holding it until the exact right moment and just like letting that tension build. I was just like, oh, you get to a point where you're almost like, do it already. Like just I can't live in this tension. Like just do it. Yes, I agree.

Bruce has lots of feelings about it right now. He's just breathing his hot air on me. I'm going to keep scratching his head. Maybe he'll stay quiet. But yeah, I loved everything he put together. And it was crazy hearing how much... Hold on. Yes, sir.

But yeah, I think everyone should watch Audity and Strange Darling pretty much. I agree. were my favorite for the year. Yeah, I loved them. It was, it was really fun. Um, and I don't know. I was like, so I was in the strange darling theater and there were a bunch of interesting trailers coming up and I was like, are the movies cool again? Because I feel like they, like, I think they have been this year. We've got into a lot. And the baby girl trailer with Nicole Kidman just dropped yesterday and I've watched it four times already. It looks so good. Girlie needs to find someone who can make her wigs look real, though.

That is true. That is true. She needs a better wig master. I'm just like, I'm like, these are big film sets. I know. It's, but. But yeah, the story looks amazing. The trailer just looks electric. It's like the same feeling I had of like coming out of Challenger's and being like, I think I could punch somebody. Like, I just worked up, you know? Like, I'm so into it. Yes.

Well, also a little bit of. bit out of character for me, but I love Aubrey Plaza, like just always like her. She's so cool. And she was doing, she was all over my TikTok because I have not broken my TikTok addiction. Promoting, she has a book, or a book. She has a movie called My Old Ass. It's not her movie, but she's in it. So she's been promoting it. And I was getting the vibes that it was kind of funny from like the things that I saw. And so I told Tyler, like, I was like, oh, this might work for us. it is very funny too it's it's funny it's heartwarming it's heart-wrenching okay i was when the movie ended tyler turned to me and said don't get up you don't have you don't have to get up like we can

wait like get control of yourself i was trying so hard for like the last like 10 minutes like the kind we're like you know how if you're in public you may not cry as much as i do though but if you're in public and you're like okay okay it's it's pretty common for me at least to hit if it's not like a straight action movie and there's a touching earnest moment my tears my my eyes are going to like water a little bit like that is not uncommon uncommon for me but then like there's where you're like oh I'm I'm really going to be crying but like I'm really going to like not try to like make a lot of noises while I do this even though like I am crying crying yeah my nose is got so stuffed up because like the one time I tried to like sniff it was so loud and there were

snobbles in my nose so I just started giving up I was just trying to like control the like massive like tears coming down and I'm just like it was beautiful and so sad and also made you it will make you appreciate every single moment of your life. is what I can say. Okay. The gist of it is a bunch of 18 year old girls, the main character, she's about to leave for college. And her family has this large cranberry farm. And like that's the whole world she's ever known.

Very, not in tone, but in setting, very similar, like where the crad is saying, like, she's just like flying around on a boat on like a little boat because that's just, she's just always lived that way. So she's about to go to college. I think like two weeks away when we start the movie. And then she and her friends do mushrooms in the, in the like forest and like camp out one night. And what happens for her is her future self shows up and starts talking to her. And she's like, you're my old ass is like where that came from. So it's like the older version of her starts talking to her and like telling her the things that like could make the summer more meaningful.

And there is like. I would call it a reveal. This is not a thriller. There's a reveal, though, at the end that, like, I realized it, like, 10 minutes before it happened. And, like, already, I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. And then it hits, and you're just like, oh, my God. Okay, I got to see it.

As much as it made me cry, it made me so appreciative of life in general. So it is a really powerful coming of age story. Okay, I got to see that one. That sounds great. Yeah. I've seen trailers for it. It does look full. funny. And I had heard, I'd heard, like, I've read a few reviews of it that were pretty good,

but like, you're really selling me on it. I got to, I got to, yeah. Yeah, it's very cool. Speaking of Aubrey Plaza, that makes me think of, I, I really am not involved in the MCU. I have, I have, but yeah, I don't really watch very much of the MCU content. I don't know, it just doesn't speak to me. I do watch Wanda Vision and I've seen like scattered different things, but I started watching Agatha all. Wanda Vision was great. And so I really liked that. So then I started watching Agatha all along. And I'm now obsessed with it. I'm really into it. I love that it's like a, they're taking tropes from the Wizard of Oz and inverting them and being like very clever with those Easter eggs. And I know it's got its own story, but it just feels like I love it. And so it sounds like you're watching it too. I'm not watching it because we just didn't have Disney. So I just need to add it is all I really need to do. But it was also making me, debate whether I should watch Wanda Vision again because it's like so much a spin-off from that. But that's another show.

Who does. Tyler was gone when I watched that show for the first time and I didn't even know. Like I didn't even know that it was going to hit you in the like grief spot so hardcore at the end. Totally. So I had been, I have been debating rewatching that or not, but I need to buy Disney. And it was crazy because I was thinking about it was like, do I have the time to get that worked up again? And then one of my friends, I'm going to keep this short because I don't want to cry. One of my friends' dogs died this week.

Yeah. And I didn't even know the dog. I just know her. And then I just heard her retell the story of it happening on a podcast this morning. But then she referenced the quote from Wanda Vision that says, what is grief but love enduring? and I just lost it again. I was like, I don't think I need to rewatch it. I think I've still got it all in here.

I think that's fair. And I did not rewatch Wanda Vision, although I did watch it years ago when it came out. And I still, I think there were a couple of things where I was like, oh yeah, I'm sure that's a Wanda Vision reference and I'm just missing it.

But like, I think you can watch it smoothly through it without even having watched Wanda Vision. And it's like, so good. I want to start watching it. It's great. It's very, yeah, it's very fun. It's like it's got darkness to it. And maybe it'll have like,

Wanda Vision was very fun too until you realize. Yes. And even fun throughout, but you realize you're right. At the end, the project is like grief and coming to turn the grief. And it's like this heavier thing. And I suspect we might not be doing that.

But it's like, it's so fun, female-driven, like amazing actresses who are cast in it. And it's just like, yeah, it feels like a dark. in version of the Wizard of Oz and I'm like so here for that I've got to watch I've been seeing

clips so like I know I need to watch it I just need to add the Disney ad on totally I definitely need to pick it up you don't watch much reality TV right okay I have watched what did I watch recently I am I did watch chimp crazy and I watched the secret lives of TikTok wives of Mormon wives? Mormon watched. So did I. Yes. Wow.

That was a thing. And then yeah. So that's what I've watched recently. Yeah. I haven't watched Chimp Crazy yet. I've been debating that one. But I had one of the coolest things is when I just have a bunch of photos to edit so I can have just like TV on while I'm working.

And so like because I just had so many photos two days in a row, I like finished secret lives of Mormon wives in like two days. Goes down real smooth. like right through them and it was i come from it's actually very similar religious repression like extremely similar if i'm being honest like there's more where like with Mormon faith like the women can't do any of the blessings as you saw like the baptisms and stuff and also i do not realize you women are not allowed into heaven unless they have a husband so there are some of those things that weren't the same, but the

judginess, the like extreme like, oh, we're in our 20s and we're scared if our parents know that we drink, like the sexual repression, like all of that, I was like, I'm really glad that I'm not in that anymore. For sure. And I felt like all of that was part of what made. So the show kind of follows, you know,

honestly you can do a drinking game of like will mom talk even survive this and you would even survive you would be dead your liver would have exploded but like it kind of follows like these group of women and one of the ringleaders of it and the one who arguably was most famous before the show because of her TikTok drama is taylor frankie paul and she i found her to be rather messy in her decision making but ultimately very easy to root for because like like you see her family and like basically this is someone for whom the like small repressive box of this Mormonism religion. Just not to say that it's that way for everyone, but it seemed to be for her.

Clearly isn't working for her. And the people who like love her and should be on her side are basically just like, get back in the box. She'll be happy in the box. The box is good. We love the box. Get in the box. And you're like, she's like she exploded her life at 25 because the box wasn't working.

Like why do we think it was. So it was just very. empathetic to watch her try to navigate, like, her loving close ties and also like, but I don't want to live this life exactly this way anymore. It was, I thought it was very, that it felt very human. Yes. I feel like there might have been others that were still being pretty honest, but it also, it felt like she, she's very honest and actually knows who she is, even the mistakes she's made. And that's what matters to me more than if you make mistakes. It's just, like how do you handle it after and she was kind of the only one he'd be like yeah that was me i fucked up

right totally i love that about her and i listened to her on a podcast that she was on now and so like most of that was happening two and one and a halfish years ago before it came out now and i listened to her on bile files and she you can hear if you're someone who's been in therapy or like just done work on self-talk and shame and all of that. You can hear how much she's worked through and how much, like, good for her that she didn't marry him. Yes. Like, good for her that everyone was telling her to do it. She couldn't bring herself to leave him until recently. She did. Um, good for her. But I'm so proud of her because everyone including him was like, why would you not? And she's like, because it's not right yet. And I was listening to a podcast. So part of the joy for me of

watching stuff like this, like obviously is the watching of it. But then I love to like go to podcasts or like I love a think piece article. You and me too. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, give me all the deep dive stuff about it. And people were pointing out how I mean, it is really uncomfortable. There's this whole situation that arises with her and her boyfriend and they are pregnant and he's basically pressuring her to get married. And she like could not be saying any more clearly, I'm not ready. And then also I'm like eight. and three quarter months pregnant. I'm about to deliver like any day.

I can't, I'm too tired. I can't talk about this. I can't keep having this fight. And he just doesn't hear it. And the like emotional abuse of it of sort of just being like, you gotta do it, you gotta do it. You gotta do it. And it just is like, bruh. And like I know, I know it's a TV show.

I know it's cut to look a certain way. But like, I don't know. It was pretty hard to watch her just like tears rolling down her face. Just being like, I'm tired. Yeah, it was so sad. And I was like, I'm watching the serialized Mormon wives. And I was like, first of all, these men suck.

Like, they are terrible. And then I was like, but then one of them is eight months pregnant. And this man is being one of the most annoying men on earth. And she is somehow not like murdering him. I know. I was like, if I am eight months pregnant, you better not look at me weird. I agree. I mean, the, yeah, the men are a real study in no thing on that show is the worst.

Is the worst. That was insanity, saying he was going to leave her. For, she didn't even stay for the Chippendale show, which I was like, girl, at least enjoy the sin. Like, if you're going to be called the sinner. He was gambling. With her money. With her money. and do you know

I don't do they cover it in the show or did I find this out later his parents gave him $100,000 $100,000 so that he could go through medical school and he blew it all on gambling. Yep. And they have a nerd to tell her what to do. I know. They don't say the amount in the show

but they do say that they basically say like she at one point says to her friends like her parents gave us a nest egg and like it's gone now and like yeah the way that she's earning money is TikTok content and supporting her family and he basically acts like it's a joke. And I'm like, okay, well, what better options are you offering? Because like, I don't see any. He's the worst. And I love that the internet rose up in like pettiness and like looked it up and we're like, actually he's not related to Ben Affleck. So go fuck yourself. Yes, that's true. Like, no, you're like, no,

you're like, all your bluffs. Yeah, like, no. Oh, man. The episode seven and eight were wilds were just unhinged. Yes. It really was. Oh my God. And then they left us on that cliffhanger with Macy calling Jenna and being like, did you sleep with Dakota? And then it's like, oh, this conversation. And I was like, oh, wait, they have to come back. I know. It's got to get picked up. It was everywhere. I feel like so many husbands were watching it with their wives. I would see it like they would get sucked into it. It is a roommate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that's the only thing I would say is like it's not um it's not total escapism reality TV because and maybe if you grew up around religious stuff they would feel sad or maybe it doesn't if you didn't but

it is sad it's sad seeing the way the church that church treats women especially basically it's sad seeing the way the church treats women for me what I was really struck by was um of like patriarchy and capitalism that shows up and it too that like these women are most of them if not all of them are the breadwinners in their family which is like awesome and rock on yes but the way that that causes conflict in their relationship and then also the way that they have become breadwinners by essentially performing their patriarchal roles is also really interesting where they kind of act like they're really subverting something and I'm like well on the one hand you kind of are but on the other hand you're like entrenching like you're like reinforcing these like

extreme general value yeah and like and that you know they all look very similar you know we could I don't necessarily want to go into the whole Whitney of it all because I feel like that's like a whole another conversation but she's the only one you know confident enough to rock a bob and not I know long hair waves um the Utah girls yeah and it just just it's so, so fascinating this sort of like them being like, we're strong women, we're showing women that there's another way. And I'm like the other way looks a lot like the way that the patriarchy tells us, though. Like you all have kids at like 22. Like I don't know. That's what I was seeing commentary on that like they're women who are like married and have multiple children. But also to most of us, it kind of feels like watching high schoolers like who snuck away from their. parents for this part of their life where they feel way older than me and then they're not and 32 and these are like 22 year olds or 25 year olds with three kids right we just glossed over michaela

getting married at 16 to a man who's 21 just glossed right over that part i have a couple of like legal questions i want to ask about some of these things um but i'm because if the internet to be trusted he got her pregnant when she was 15 she had the baby at 16. Oh, God. Oh, God. And then I guess it's fine because they got married. So, oh.

Yeah. It's different. It's different than other reality TV. That's all I'm trying to say. Yeah. And it's, but I'm with you. They, every fight they have in the show feels like a middle school fight to me.

You know what I mean? It's like, oh, these women are very developed in certain areas of their life. and really underdeveloped in others. And the way that their, like, ability to deal with conflict for most of them. And, like, the conflict that happens feels so young and so immature. It's kind of fascinating to watch and just be like, wow, this is a fight. Like, oh. I know.

Okay. Yeah. Right. And the whole, like, division of, like, the good Mormons and the bad. The spinners and the, like, yeah. Yeah. And the terrible soda orders where I'm like, I think God would rather you just drink your coffee. like I this is this is this is this is like against like this is ungodly what you're doing to that

Dr. Pepper is like no thank you I saw a comment that was like nobody nobody loves finding loopholes more than someone who's like totally committed to adhering to every rule of their religion totally and then it's like God doesn't want us to put toxins in our bodies but we do get Botoxin we do get laughing gas when we do we get laughing gas when we get And I was like, what? Like, you're 22 and you're getting face full of Botox. But like, and again, I actually like, and then it puts you in the uncomfortable position. I don't want to judge these women's choices. Do you know what you want with your body. But it's the sort of like holding it up as like we adhere to all these beliefs in this very specific way. And then also like being like, but this, this and this. And like, we're not supposed to have sex out of wedlock, but we do have soft swinging parties because like we didn't get to date a lot of people when we were younger. And you're like. And they're like. And they're just. And they're just. And they're just. And they're. And they're. And they. And they. And they. And they're. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And they. And That is an excuse. Yeah. It's so weird.

I know. I know. It is the proof that repression does not work out in the long run. No. And it ultimately leads to the real horror of like a Diet Coke filled with half and half, which is like, no, thank you. Oh, my God. Those drink orders.

Oh, Whitney. Okay, I don't want to spoil it for anybody who, but what Whitney does to a cake, later in the season when I've never seen anything didn't even click for her that that might be fucking disgusting like I've never seen anything so low-key gross in my life I was just like oh god I like was watching while I was working and so I kind of missed something of that scene and so I thought it was just in a bag and she was showing it to people. And then I heard, but you put it in the cake. And I was like, all right, we need to get back 30 seconds here. What just happened? And then I was like, yeah, it's disgusting. It's disgusting. I, so I listened to one podcast that had a theory about

Whitney and it said their theory was they were like, I think Whitney and Hillary Clinton suffer from the same thing, which is that when they were young, someone told them their personality was too much and wrong. And so since then, they have been trying to approximate what they see around them, but they can't do it right. So they don't understand the feet. And like, I don't know if that's true or not. That was that one person's take. But you certainly see it in Whitney's stuff where she'll do things like dancing with her baby in the emergency room when he has RSV and being like, it's meant to be a celebratory moment, but like doesn't clock how it looks from the outside, which is that it looks insane and like you're a bad mom. and I'm not here to mom shame anybody, but like it looks bad.

No. Or like, it's a weird choice. Or I guess I'm just going to ruin it. But like putting the actual pea stick of your pregnancy test in a cake and not being like, that might be gross for people. And she was just like, it's fine. I put the cap on. I chloroxed it.

And you're like, it's still urine adjacent. Like that shouldn't be in that cake. Like, no way. No. No. But take a picture of it and put in a plastic bag or something. Right. put it in like a ring box or something something where people don't have to one touch it or

consume it right like if they're going to touch it like they can wash their hands afterwards like don't put it somewhere like I wonder which part of the cake my cake this was touching the piece stick like oh yes that's so gross yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a wild show it really is it really is a wild wild show and I hope there's a season two I do too I need it In some of their TikToks, there are camera crews in the mirrors people noticed. So people kind of think they're filming right now for season two. I sure hope so. I sure hope so.

I'm invested. I'm invested too. Yeah. We just talked about a little bit of everything. We really did. And I was going to say I should probably start wrapping it up. But it's always such a joy to talk to you, Kate. I have such fun in our conversation.

Me too. Yeah. And we just, we just, we just can. so much similar stuff. We really do. We really do. And I love that. It makes it really fun to get to like riff off each other with.