Bookwild - Hannah D Sharpe's Between Lies and Revenge: Cons, MLMs and Revenge

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

This week, I talk with Hannah D Sharpe about her new domestic suspense Between Lies and Revenge.  We dive into how she learned about gemology, her experiences with MLMs, and found family.Between Lies and Revenge SynopsisYears after the death of her brother and the theft of her heirloom jewelry, ex-con Elle is on the run ... until she spots a stranger wearing a signature piece. Determined to take back what is hers, Elle stalks and befriends the woman, using her gemology skills as a ruse. Elle offers to appraise and clean the jewelry, replicating and replacing the pieces instead.Olivia is drowning. She maxes out credit cards behind her financially-strict husband's back in order to pay for fertility treatments, keep her blackmailing father at bay, and maintain appearances with her wealthy friends and their cultist MLM social circles. When Olivia meets Elle, she finally feels understood ... and inspired.With Elle’s expertise and Olivia’s connections, the two start a side-hustle by way of home jewelry appraisal parties. When this isn't lucrative enough, they develop the perfect con: switching rich housewives’ gems with fakes. But their hidden truths get in the way of their success, and each other. Before their secrets bury them, they must confess their lies to one another and trust their final con will exact the revenge that’ll secure their freedom, and their lives. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

These women on social media create these worlds that they live in, whether it is real or it is not. And being able to sell these products and I kept thinking, I can do this. I can do this. No, I can't. But I wanted to, and I wanted to advance and there's so much toxic positivity behind it that just encourages people to keep going and keep trying. do this. You're part of this team if you keep working and you have us as long as you keep working. And so, um, writing about it was helpful to kind of exit away from that world.

This week I got to talk with Hannah D. Sharp about her debut thriller between lies and revenge, which is a really fun domestic thriller that incorporates MLMs and cons and gemology. So here's what it's about. Years after the death of her brother and the theft of her heirloom jewelry, Excon Elle, is on the run, until she spots a stranger wearing a signature piece. Determined to take back what is hers, Elle stalks and befriends the woman using her gemology skills as a ruse. Elle offers to appraise and clean the jewelry replicating and replacing the pieces instead. Olivia is drowning.

She maxes out credit cards behind her financially strict husband's back in order to pay for fertility treatments, keep her blackmailing father at bay, and maintain appearances with her wealthy friends and their cultist MLM social circles. When Olivia meets Elle, she finally feels understood and inspired. With Elle's expertise in Olivia's connections, the two start a side hustle by way of home jewelry appraisal parties. When this isn't lucrative enough, they develop perfect cons, switching rich housewives gyms with fakes, but their hidden truths get in the way of their success and each other. Before their secrets buried, then they must confess their lies to one another and trust that their final con will exact the revenge that will secure their freedom and their

lives. This was a super fun read. I really, really, really loved Elle's character and her snarky monologue that's kind of going on throughout the whole book. And the final act of revenge really is quite the payoff. So I can't wait for you guys to hear. from Hannah. Let's get into it. Before we dive into between lines, between lines, oh my goodness, between lies and revenge, I wanted to get to know a little bit about you. So when did you know you wanted to be an author or when were you like, I'm going to write a book? I have always written, I feel like that's the case for a lot of writers, but I have always enjoyed writing. And as a kid, I would write smaller books and I would write songs, which is not my forte.

But I always tried to write science fiction as an adult, as a teenager, as an adult. I tried to write science fiction because that is what I read a lot as a kid and what my grandfather had introduced me to. And so I would try and I would start and I would get as far as 50 pages even. and it would die because I'm not a science fiction writer. And it took me time, but about five years ago, I think I really started back into the idea that I can write a novel, but it doesn't have to be science fiction and I can do something else. And so I really committed to it about five years ago,

but I have always, always written. That's fascinating. I haven't talked to anyone who was like, I read this genre so much. I tried it and it wasn't for me. But that I feel like sci-fi though is like you have to like think of so much if it's like high fantasy. Like if you're completely coming up with a whole brand new world. So I kind of see how that could be like you could enjoy reading it, but writing it would be a whole other thing. Yes.

I mean my brain doesn't even, it couldn't write fantasy either. That kind of thing is so creative. and my brain always wants to be grounded in the real world. Unless I'm, if somebody else has created the world and I can live in their world, I'm good. Yeah. I can't create the world. So, yeah, that was. Yeah.

It just took a time for me to figure that out. Yeah. That's cool. So then when you, so this is a thriller, obviously this first one that came out. What did your writing process kind of like, how did it develop as you were writing this book? This book was very different. when I started it. But it started with my character Elle. She came to my brain. She started talking to me. And I know some other authors talk about this too. I was listening to one of your other interviews recently. Yeah. With somebody who was saying that their character just lives in their brain and

talks to them. And it is absolutely true. Elle talked to me. She told me that she wanted a story. I didn't know what that story was. I started to write a story. It completely changed multiple times. But she was, she was what brought me to this story. But with writing, in the past, it's always been like I just start writing something. And I learn as I go, my characters tell me what's happening. The story unfolds very much a pancer.

But I've been. learning to plot, which is not, it's hard to plot. And so, yes, this story was very much the version of me that just wrote and tried. Yeah. That's cool. But she just, it was L kind of all along. So when you first started with her, you said, you just, you mentioned that like it changed a couple of times. So when you first started with her, you said, you just, you mentioned that like, it changed a couple of times. So when you first started with her, was it kind of, of thriller driven or was it even like a different genre at first? It was, I always wanted to be able to write domestic suspense and thriller, but I didn't know how to get there at first. And with this story, I was trying to get there and I was not succeeding at first. It was women's fiction and it evolved. It had spies in it in the first version. The very first.

Yes. And then I got feedback. And I'm so glad that I got that feedback because it was not. I'm not a spy writer either. Like that is not. That's not my world. So. Yeah.

That's kind of cool. I mean, I'm sure it's not super fun in the moment to be trying things and finding out that it's not for you. But that is kind of, it's fascinating that like, like, still just different things kind of appealed to you. and then kind of ended up with what this story was. So it sounds like Elle was the main inspiration for it, but was there like a specific inspiration that took Elle in the direction that this one, that the final story went? After I started to write and Olivia introduced herself to me as well,

I knew that they had these personalities. and they needed to do something. They needed to con people. They needed to do something devious and morally ambiguous. And I had been working through figuring out how to process moving away from the MLM world. And it just unfolded. It was kind of a therapy and it just naturally happened. once I let it just naturally come out instead of trying to force a story like spies,

it unraveled so much easier for me. That's cool. You mentioned the MLMs, and that's like a big focus in the book too. So we have like this friend group of kind of upper, definitely upper class, somewhat elite women who are all selling separate products. and they all kind of feel obligated to buy from each other because, like, oh, you bought for me, so now I need to buy from you. And it's just kind of this circular thing where, like, they're really just kind of passing money back and forth.

So what was, like, what drew you to writing about MLAs, MLMs, and the way that they kind of function in social circles? So that was really much, that was like my therapeutic. writing because I did spend years trying to live in this world because it promises a village. It promises friendships and I was in the thick of early motherhood. My oldest is 10 now, but with him when he was little and my second, we, I felt like I was in my own head and with them and I wanted interaction. And that's where I looked for it with MLM companies. And it was so, it's so interesting to watch these women on social media create these worlds that they live in, whether it is real or it is not. And being able to sell these products and I kept thinking, I can do this.

I can do this. No, I can't. But I wanted to, and I wanted to advance, and there's so much toxic positivity behind it that just encourages people to keep going and keep trying. And like, you can do this. You're part of this team if you keep working. And you have us as long as you keep working. And so writing about it was helpful to kind of exit away from that world for me. But I spent a lot of time purchasing.

So I would want to support somebody. And they need to make the next rank. Okay, so I can purchase a kit and I can be part of this company. Yeah. And then, or it's, I'm part of this company, but I want this person to support me. And so I'm going to support them. And I would funnel so much money in. And I got to a point where I was hiding the purchases from my husband.

I didn't want him to know how much I was spending trying to. to create this business that I told them would work. This business would work. Yeah. And so that's really where it came from. It came from me and the feelings that I had and the feelings of guilt and the feelings of like, I need to be loyal. I need to do these purchases.

I need to support these people. They're working so hard. I know what that's like. And it created this vicious cycle. And I wanted to portray that in this story because I felt like there's others who feel this way. And I wanted them to know that they're not. alone in this feeling yeah yeah it definitely like because it does it feels like you're helping someone

or supporting someone like it feels like a good thing to do essentially so it is just so easy to get got up in it um the other part that kind of like they kind of dovetail together well is that l i mean l and olivia come together to um run con run a con run a con But Elle always has had that as a part of her life as well. And so what drew you to writing a character who was an ex-con, kind of transitioning into doing it again? So she just, again, she just spoke to me. Like she just told me from the very beginning, I lie to my husband.

And I was curious. and I wanted to explore that. And it just seemed fitting that the lie would be big. It would be really big. And so her, the idea of the different cons that she has been through just slowly trickled in. And I'm always fascinated by jewelry. I would not, I would not know if a diamond was actually a diamond. Like, if you tell me the quality of it,

and that it's a diamond, I'm likely going to believe you unless it really, really looks fake. But like, if it is a, if it's a good thing, I'm not going to know. I will not know. And I, but I know that there are so many people who live in this world who know jewelry and can tell the difference. And I wanted to know what that was like. And Elle discovered it with me. So it was, it was kind of fun to learn. Yeah. And since you didn't know anything about jewelry at first or like how you could figure out if something was fake or not, what kind of research did you do to learn about gemology?

I have done, I've done so much research, but it's been over like three or four years now. Yeah. So lots of like Googling. Google is my best friend. But I am a nurse by trade. and I have an advanced degree and so I've done a lot of research and so I feel like that's helped like knowing what type of research to look for, what things to trust and what things not to trust. And I would go down rabbit holes and then I would confirm the rabbit holes and confirm them again.

Yeah. Make sure that I was getting things correct and pulling up pictures and reading definitions and trying to piece together all of these things. And I didn't do anything cool, like go to a jewelry store and talk to somebody because that would require me talking to somebody and not having a panic attack over doing that. So it was really good, though. I love the internet. I'm glad that it's in existence. And I'm looking at this world. Yes. So, really, Research was really in-depth and took time and I just wanted to make sure that I got it all right. Yeah.

But it was really cool to learn. There was so much to learn. Yeah. Like, even just reading it, I was like, I'm just like not a totally big jewelry person in general, just because, like, I don't like the feelings of, like, stuff on my wrist and my rings or in my fingers. But, like, just reading it was, like, interesting. to me too, just like a whole other world and all the different ways that you could, like, swap something out and have people not know. It was very fascinating for me, too. I hope you're

enjoying this episode of Book Wild. And if you are, could I ask you a favor? Could you go and rate and review this podcast and whatever platform you're listening? Ratings and reviews make the biggest difference in discoverability of the podcast. And I definitely want to find all of our fellow thriller readers out there. So if you could go rate the podcast, it's a lot of the podcast. It's and leave a short review, that would make a huge difference. Thank you. And let's get back to the show. The other thing that I really, really loved was how snarky L's inner monologue was. And I talk about how much I love snarky characters all the time on the podcast. So I think some of our listeners love that too. So were you having just like so much fun writing from her point of view?

I loved writing from her point of view. So she's, she is like the devil on my shoulder. And I feel like her snarky inner dialogue is so much like the thoughts that all of us have at some point. And if not, then I guess it is she really is my devil then. Because I definitely have had similar thoughts to her at times. And it's not like, it's not who I am. but we all have shared in her dialogues and I really appreciated hers because she just let it be like that is who she is and she was not going to deny it to herself or to anybody else and

um it was really fun because I just got to write a very honest character which is so funny because she is not honest at all she like not really yeah but in her mind in her mind she is for sure or like what she's thinking kind of to herself internally. The other thing that the book covers is Olivia has a struggle with infertility and endometriosis and that she really, really desperately wants to have a kid. And so that's kind of what's informing a lot of her decisions and like what brings her to the point of getting involved with Elle. So how did you kind of like approach incorporating that into a thriller. And then also, like, I could, can you talk about how it kind of like raised the emotional stakes for her character, too? This thread was there before it

was a thriller when it was more of a women's fiction type book. And it did, but it did lean towards helping me develop it and edit it into a thriller. And I feel like, Having that desire to have a child, if that is something that you want so desperately and it's not happening, it, oh, I am so sorry. I feel like it is something that tugs on our hearts and will bring us to do sometimes almost anything. And I wanted to explore what that would be like with her and to dive deeper into. that. I had a difficult time getting pregnant with our second child. We have three children. And each was a bit different. Like we were very lucky with our first. Our second, we struggled a lot to have. Yeah. We had to go through fertility treatments. And I have endometriosis. And there was a lot of

self-blame in that. And then our third was a big surprise, like shocking surprise. So I wanted to I wanted to explore this issue that is very, very common. Yeah. And we just don't always talk about it because it makes us feel terrible inside. And it takes such a toll. And it just fed into the thriller dialogue, though. It just worked really well because I knew by the time I was able to edit it enough to make it into a thriller, that she was going to do anything.

she would anything for this child that she wants. And in the thriller, I feel like you have to have the stakes that push you to wouldn't do in a normal everyday life. Yeah. Yeah, especially because it is so for a lot of women rooted in their identity, like you're talking about where like when you feel like you can't have kids, it can feel like a failing of yourself as a person. even though, like, you as a person don't have any control over, you don't, you have very limited

control over what your body is able to do in that situation. So it, I could, it just is something where it's like, what else, like, what else would you do except try to keep spending money to, like, figure it out, which was where she was definitely coming from. The other thing with, with Elle and Olivia, they seem very different. And they are very, very, very. very different people. And you can feel that in their chapters. But the longer we get to know both of them, we learned that like both of them have really painful like childhood histories or family histories. And it's kind of what's motivating both of them to act the way that they were acting. So is that something you wanted to bring those characters together on from the beginning? Or did that kind of

happen as you were writing it? That really happened as I was writing, but it happened so naturally. Elle, I think I knew very early that Elle just didn't have, didn't have the family that was solid. Yeah. Olivia's naturally happened. The personality that she had is she just had to have a backstory that made sense. And I really enjoyed, though, when I realized that this was a thread for both of them, because they really went, they both struggled so much, but they became so much different people.

They are so different to each other. And it's fun to explore how there can be so much variation between two people, even if they both ended up having a challenging childhood. So it was really, it was really fun to explore, like, the dynamics. And then also to try to make sure that the threads weren't too similar because I didn't want two characters that were. Right. I wanted them. Yeah, especially when you're like in the point of view of each of them, like you do want it to feel distinct. Yes, exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And kind of with those stories, I always love found family as, I mean, it's not even really a trope. I mean, that's kind of the word that comes to mind, but I love it when it shows up in stories because I think it really can be so powerful

the people who you choose to consider family. Like it's such an honor is what kind of comes to mind, but like it's like a big decision when like you choose to think of someone and relate to them that way. So did that, was that there at the beginning too? Or was that also kind of like as you were writing both of them, you kind of realized that, that kind of showed up. I knew, even when the story was completely different, I knew that they were

going to be, they would be a found family in a way. I didn't know how they were going to get there, but I knew that they would come together, that they were kind of meant to be. And I think a lot of times when I write, there is a found family element. And I think that it's so strong because we, we get to choose certain people in our lives that we feel like are just meant to be there. And I think that that's really important. And there's also that fun link, just trying to explore, like, how are we linked to each of the people in our lives? And why do we keep them? And do we keep them because we want them there?

And I feel like that is that I just wanted to embed that. the story and it probably will find a thread in many of many of my future stories yeah yeah it's so powerful to me everything you were just saying like it's like the people where it's like they just who they are matters to you so much that they feel like family versus just like the default family that you're given essentially um so i really i really enjoyed that i loved how their stories came together at the end without giving away any spoilers Yes. I was right. I know. I'm like, sometimes it's easier than others.

And then other times I'm like, oh, well, I'm just going to have to cut it. But yeah, I loved how their stories came together at the end and just kind of how, I mean, Elle kind of like helps Olivia believe in herself a little bit more too. So I love the way their personalities came together there at the end. So I've been asking people at the end if they've read anything recently that they, love. So do you have any books that you've read recently? I read a lot. I audio books. That's what I saw too. So you do lots of audiobooks. Lots of audio books. Yes. With my kids and with work and my brain, it just works. It works. Yeah. And trying to focus on the page. But I was, I went back and I looked at my recent thriller reads because I know that's where you focus and I do it is um but I I loved

the five-year lie by Serena Bowen yeah that was so good I just loved that one with the have you read it I haven't I keep hearing about it though so I'm like thinking I need to I felt like there was so much emotion like there is that that um time like you you want her to get to where she needs to go and like on time i'm my words are feeling me but um you pressure of her getting through whatever she was going through um yeah about giving away the story and also there was this emotional element it had like a romance element in it that pulled the emotions in all the ways and so i just felt like i was feeling the entire time I was yeah and she she wrote romance previously right I think she does um yeah I think she still

does I think she goes between or yeah there in romance um there are a couple of thriller writers who do that and I know Ashley Winstead like blows my mind it is it's amazing um and then bitter house by kirsten maudlin bitter house okay yeah house. Her reads are always really quick reads. They're so, yeah, they're so good. I haven't read that one though. It is one of the newer ones and it's my favorite so far. I messaged her after I read it. Oh, nice. It's my favorite of yours so far. I loved it. But I always love a thread with a strong

female character. So that one had that. And I just recently read Return to Midnight by Emma Dews. That was a fun thriller. it was about two times a past tense and present. And this character 10 years ago had at college, she was in a not a sorority, but her and some of her friends rented a home. And somebody murdered her friends in their house. and she survived with two other people. And they didn't really have the resolution. They convicted somebody, but she didn't believe that that's really what happened.

And she became a writer. And so 10 years later, she's doing research to write a book on what happened. And wanting to discover what happened. And it was very interesting because it was like that academia kind of world, but not necessarily because it was playing on two timelines. And it was a fun read. That sounds really good. It comes out on the 27th of August.

Oh, nice. Yeah, it's brand new. Yeah. I was going to say I hadn't heard of it yet, and I was surprised. Because like dual timeline and some dark academia is like right up my alley. Right. Yes, I do remember you saying that on your podcast. So that is, that one's a fun one.

I would recommend that one. Yeah. I'm going to have to add that one to my list for when it comes out. Where can people follow you to keep up with everything that you're working on? I mostly live on Instagram, if anywhere. I'm at Hannah D. Sharp. And Sharp has me at the end. Oh, and I told my parents I would show a picture of... Oh, it's so beautiful. They've discovered your podcast.

me like you got to make sure there's a picture so yeah yeah i'm on instagram at hannah d sharp um and sometimes i'm on twitter but not i'm sorry x but i'm not yeah really me more these days and i avoid book if i can i've been trying to be on there but i usually avoid it um i have a website i'm not very good up keeping it but it is hannah d sharp dot com so nice um maybe i'll be better at it in the future