Bookwild - Haunted Film Sets, Fame and Psychics: Josh Winning on His New Book Burn the Negative

Episode Date: July 14, 2023

On this episode, Kate talks to Josh Winning about his new horror-suspense Burn the Negative.Check out the synopsis:Arriving in L.A. to visit the set of a new streaming horror series, journalist Laura Warren witnesses a man jumping from a bridge, landing right behind her car. Here we go, she thinks. It’s started. Because the series she’s reporting on is a remake of a ’90s horror flick. A cursed ’90s horror flick, which she starred in as a child—and has been running from her whole life.In The Guesthouse, Laura played the little girl with the terrifying gift to tell people how the Needle Man would kill them. When eight of the cast and crew died in ways that eerily mirrored the movie’s on-screen deaths, the film became a cult classic—and ruined her life. Leaving it behind, Laura changed her name and her accent, dyed her hair, and moved across the Atlantic. But some scripts don’t want to stay buried.Now, as the body count rises again, Laura finds herself on the run with her aspiring actress sister and a jaded psychic, hoping to end the curse once and for all—and to stay out of the Needle Man’s lethal reach.Follow Josh on Instagram or Twitter Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hey guys, welcome to the Killing the Tea podcast. This is Gare and Kate. And we are going to be discussing all things, chills, thrills and kills. Kate and I are going to be talking about our favorite books, TV shows and movies that are in the thriller or crime fiction genre, as well as some reading habits and other items related to how we met on Bookstagram that will fit in with this podcast. So thank you so much for, joining us and we hope that you have fun and get totally terrified. Hey guys this week I am talking with Josh Winning about his new book that just came out this week called Burn the Negative, which is a really, really fun horror and suspense mashup. So if that already sounds good to you, you know, you want to read it. But just to give a quick overview of it before we get into the conversation with him. Burn the Negative is about journalist Laura Warren, who arrives in L.A. to visit the set of a new streaming horror series, and she witnesses a man jumping from a bridge landing right behind her car. Here we go, she thinks it started, because the series she's reporting on is a remake of a 90s

horror flick, a cursed 90s horror flick, which she started in as a child and has been running from her whole life. In the guest housed, Laura played. the little girl with a terrifying gift to tell people how the needleman would kill them. When eight of the cast and crew died in ways that eerily mirrored the movies on-screen deaths, the film became a cult classic and ruined her life. Leaving it behind, Laura changed her name and her accent, dyed her hair and moved across the Atlantic. But some scripts don't want to stay buried. Now, as the body count rises again, Laura finds herself on the run with her aspiring actress sister and a jaded psychic.

hoping to end the curse once and for all and to stay out of the needleman's lethal reach. So if you love a lot of the thrillers that we love, I bet you're going to love this one too. But for now, enjoy my conversation with Josh. First, I wanted to cover it. You do a lot of things. So you're a journalist, you're an author, you're a podcaster as well. So did you always know you wanted to write and kind of ended up in all of these professions? or like how did you end up going that direction?

I was always writing as a kid. Like when I first started like being creative as a young person, it was always writing books, writing stories. I used to rewrite books that I didn't like parts of at the ending of. You know, just for some reason I was always drawn to writing. And so when, you know, it became my dream essentially to write books, become an author. And then when I finished university, I was just a bit like, well, how do I? I even do that? How do I even get into that? So I went to see my lecturer at university. And she

kind of said to me, well, you know, that's really difficult to get into. So have you ever thought about being a journalist? And I hadn't thought about being a journalist because I just thought about, you know, journalism equals newspapers and what do I know about the world? Yeah. But because I had run websites about film and I'd written reviews about film, I'd even interviewed various people just through my website. I thought, oh, what, film journalism? Like, that's a thing, right? So that's how I kind of moved into film journalism.

And, yeah, it's fantastic. And it kind of really helped me hone my writing. And I don't think that I would have been, I don't think I would have been successful in any way as an author if I hadn't been a journalist first because it taught me so many invaluable lessons about writing. That's really cool. And I bet since you were writing about stories, like you're also probably just like thinking about story all the time. That's what I find at least like the more stories I consume,

the more I can like understand story structure. Oh, I'm yeah, like fascinated by story structure. If I'm watching anything, I'm like, okay, right. So they seeded that there. This is the midpoint. This is the point of no return. You know, yeah. So you can't turn that stuff. off. It's just in there now. Yes. Yeah, that's, I think that's really cool. And I hadn't even thought of that because, like, I do, I'm working on a novel right now, but it's, it's, you know, there's life happening as well, too.

But I hadn't thought of how useful, even just like writing about films or like thinking about films and stuff really would help until now. So I'm glad you said that. Well, because I feel like movies, I feel like we almost become, little miniature movie critics in ourselves. And, you know, we kind of, if we say a movie's bad or we didn't like a film, I think that there's probably something fundamental to that story that doesn't quite work. So I think that we've become, as like a species, quite sort of like intrinsically attuned

to what good storytelling is. Like we know it when we see it. Yeah. But replicating it is like tough. of. Yes. I completely agree because it's people who probably would never think of writing can be like, oh, I loved that TV show. I loved this. But I just read, I read Save the Cat, writes a novel here recently. And so I've been the same way now. And now I'm like, oh, this is, this is what's happening here and this is what's happening here. And you, like,

have a way to make sense of why it's good instead of just like a gut feeling, basically. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. So you, have another book as well, the shadow glass. And it's also centered around filmmakers and kind of just like your Hollywood types. So is Hollywood always a special interest for you too growing up? I guess in sort of like a roundabout way, because all the films that I love seem to mostly have come out of Hollywood. You know, it's the biggest film industry. I mean, apart from Bollywood, which is enormous as well. You know, Hollywood is this enormous space. in film and it creates trends, it creates jobs, you know, it's such a massive thing. It's

impossible to escape in the English-speaking world, particularly. And so, yeah, I don't really, I don't know how I've ended up writing two books centered around films. It's just sort of happened. It just happened. Okay. Yeah, like maybe if you look at back over my career, such as it is, you might kind of go, okay, well, this guy kind of knows movies. And so he's writing what he knows, I guess. Yeah. I guess I just find them interesting as well. I think there's just so much going on with film.

I think there's so much more than just what you see on the screen. Right. So that's just endlessly fascinating. Right. Yeah. I totally agree. So with Burn the Negative, what was it inspired? it for you. Like what was your, what was like maybe like the first scene that came to you?

Um, the first scene was the first scene in the book pretty much, which was Laura on the plane, flying to L.A. And then she's a journalist. She discovers that what she's going to write about is a horror series. There's a remake of the cursed horror film that she starred in as a child. So that was the, that was always the opening of the book. And I loved writing that because it was just like, you are, you are sort of like charging 5,000 miles per hour through the air. There is no turning this plane around. You have to do this. It's also your job.

So you are committed to this. So many people are relying on you. Yeah. Though I loved that sense of sort of like frustration and helplessness and anger and fear all happening in that horrible pin can cramped space that is a plane, you know? Yeah, it was so elevated by the fact. that she can't go anywhere in the literal moment. And she's kind of freaking out about where she's headed.

Yeah, she would have to hijack that plane herself and turn around in order to stop this happening. Yeah. But she actually came to me second, the character, the character who came to me first was the psychic, Beverly. And Beverly has been hired by the production of this horror streaming series to sort of keep an eye on it and make sure nothing spooky happens,

make sure nobody dies because the film that this series is based on is infamous for the fact that many of its cast and crew died both during and after the production. So this psychic of there, but she's not there sort of like, she's not happy to be there. She thinks it's a ridiculous stunt. And so I just loved the idea of having the journalist who isn't really sure 100% if there is this curse. And then the psychic who's like a massive skeptic and doesn't believe in the curse whatsoever. And I just thought that would be such a fun sort of a dynamic to sort of play around. Yeah. Yeah, because you also, you typically are the psychics are the ones who are going to be less skeptical. So it's kind of fun to see one in a different role, basically. Yeah, I didn't want her to walk around

to be like, there is her presence, you know, I didn't want to really believe this stuff. Yeah. And yeah, she, I loved writing her. You know, you don't really find that out that much about her, really. I loved keeping her as this mysterious figure you're not, you're never 100% sure about. Yeah, for sure. Well, and it kind of almost, it's just donning on me too. Then when this stuff does start happening, like, it makes it seem even more real because, like,

even she was skeptical of it too. Yeah. It's just hitting me now. But yeah, I love that. That's great. I didn't think of that either, but yeah. Yeah, kind of like makes it even, you're like, oh, wow, she didn't even believe it. Now stuff's happening.

So that is a really fun dynamic. I love those characters. So do you, so it's actually like, it's a common trope in real life, if there are tropes in real life of some films that's being haunted. So do you have, was there like a film set that you, like a favorite one or like something that you were really interested in that was supposed to be haunted in real life? I love the story. It sounds a bit morbid, but I love the story of the Phantom of the Opera that was shot at Universal Studios. And weirdly, I only found out about that after I'd finished the book. I was like, this is weird.

Like, writing this book, some really weird coincidences happened. one of them. Wow. The story of the Phantom of the Opera is they built stage 28, I think, and they had to build this enormous space in which to house the Royal Opera House. You know, it's this enormous set that they built. And somebody did tragically die from falling on that set. And that's something that happens in Burn the Negative. I didn't know about that until, I mean, about a month ago. Wow. That is wild. Yeah. That's kind of become my favorite. Yeah, I bet. It would be freaky to have happened happening in real life as well. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing your book kind of dives into is like what is the actual price of fame and just like everything related to fame?

And so personally, I have always been someone who like, I would love to love to. I would love to to be around the action, like whether it would be as writing or like, I like the idea of being behind the scenes of really big things, but not being recognizable necessarily. I don't prefer to be famous. So do you, what would your preference be in those situations? Yeah, I definitely do not want to be in any kind of spotlight. I like being at home with my cat. You know, it's all safe. No, fame to me is like, such a terrifying idea because the thought of people looking at you, judging you, thinking they know who you are, like as an introvert, that to me is almost the worst thing that I could ever happen

to me. I completely agree. I don't want to be near it, but. Yeah, I don't need to be in that spotlight. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But I totally get what you mean about wanting to be near, to be part of that collaborative thing and see what actually happens behind the seams. That would be really cool. I always think like my husband and I've talked about it before, but I always think like writers, especially on like really big like breaking bat to have like been in a writer's room for something like that.

Like that fascinates both of us so much. But like so you can be like close to a project that exciting. But then like you go home and no one's like snapping your picture on the way the car. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's how I've always felt. There's only like, I think there's only so many people who are such avid fans of something like Breaking Bad, where they actually do register who the writer is and who the director is. I think that's, that's like big time fan energy. You know, it is. It is. It totally is. That was, it was the first show, I think, where I started to, like, I, knew the producers, they knew the writers. I was like, oh, this is what it's like to be obsessed with a show.

just all around. So I saw on your website that you have been on quite a few sets yourself. Some of them are very cool. I won't list them all off. But and kind of that you were there, I'm assuming to cover it in a like a journalistic fashion. So was any of the story of Laura like inspired by like any of the stuff that you've done? Oh yeah, completely. Like I ripped myself off to the end.

degree completely. That's awesome. Yeah, like, so the scene where she actually goes into this enormous guest house set that's been built on the sound stage, that was inspired by a British TV series that I visited called, oh God, what's it called, being human? It was about a vampire, a ghost, and a werewolf, and they're like roommates, and they all live together in, like, a bed and breakfast or something. So I went on set for that in series three, and I got to walk around this cozy little bed and breakfast.

And it was so surreal because we were in a warehouse. And yet when you were inside the actual set, you felt so at home. But also not, you know, like the doors could lead anywhere. You could open a wardrobe and there would maybe be like another room behind it. It was kind of spooky. So that was like sitting in the back of my mind as sort of like something to draw from. at some point. Yeah, that's really cool. I was on, I was on a set a couple of years ago just doing some like behind the scenes video. And it was similarly creepy to like be inside something and then

like you come out and it's just like, oh, there are a bunch of different rooms all around me. It's really disorienting at first if you haven't been in that situation for sure. And I think especially in places like LA, because you're outside in this blinding sunshine. It's so hot, so bright. And then you walk into this pitch black soundstage. And it takes a second for your eyes to adjust to being in there. And then there's so many people running around doing things, being busy. And then there's this sort of creation in the middle of the floor.

And it's so surreal. I think the closest you could probably get to it is going into hauling. at Comic Con, where you walk in the door and you go into this enormous amphitheater and it's so dark, it could be any time of day, it could be any time of year, you have no idea. And there's something a bit spooky about that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, when it just like changes that quickly. And that's like, it's like what you don't think when you're watching a movie either.

I've heard some actors, too, talk about how like watching movies is so different because they're like even more aware of the fact that like, oh, this isn't like. like where this person actually is or whatever. We're like, when we're used to watching it, it's just like, oh, that's like a real house probably or a real whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I love those old TV shows where you can tell that it's a backdrop and they're in a studio, you know?

Yes. Yes. At the time, everyone was like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. I was, my co-host, Gare was going to be here and he had a doctor's appointment come up. So he really wanted to be here. But I don't know if he does like castings of books, like who he would cast when he reads them.

So did you have anyone in mind for like any of your characters when you were writing it? I have seen those castings. They're really cool. I really like them. In terms of casting Burn the Negative, I was kind of thinking about Winona Ryder for Beverly the Psychic. In the book, Laura's favorite actor is Winner Ryder, so I was kind of towing around with that five a little bit. I was kind of a little bit thinking, this is a bit left ill, but I was thinking about maybe Lena Dunham for Laura. I love that. I would love to see her in a horror film.

I mean, she did. She was in a cult in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and she was great in that. She was. So I could maybe see her doing it. I like that. But if they wanted somebody sort of maybe more glamorous or I don't know, maybe in someone like Florence Pew,

like she's just badass and everything. She is so cool. Like every time she's in my feet, I'm like, how are you this cool all the time? Stop being so cool. Yeah. Like, if you're standing a bar too high for us, that would be really fun.

Was there any, like, so is there any director aesthetic that you would gravitate to for what you saw in your head? I was kind of thinking like John Carpenter, because he's, he has that sort of grittiness to him, but he's also can be sort of quite stylized and otherworldly. You know, like Halloween has so many great blue spooky filters and stuff. So if John Carpenter was like, do you want me to do burn the negative, I'd be like, yes, I do. Yes, please.

You can have it here. Yeah, that would be really cool. Were there any movies that you like paid homage to in the book or like any scenes for movies that inspired anything? There are a lot of Easter eggs in this book. some of them it's funny because I'm such a scream kid you know I grew up on the screen franchise and I also grew up I basically grew up with Kevin Williamson you know I grow up with Dawson's Creek all of his stuff is is heavily postmodern heavily aware of culture like pop culture and I think that I saw though all of that stuff at such an impressionable age that it's

turned me into sort of a bit of a pop culture culture sort of, I don't know, not machine, because that sounds like I'm congratulated myself, but like a bit of a pop culture person where I just sort of speak in that way sometimes. You know, I use films as references all the time. So when I'm writing, I do the same thing. Yeah. And that's why when Laura goes to a motel, she looks around and she sort of pictures Theron Louise around there, or obviously Norman Bates or she pictures Guy Pearce from Memento

because that's kind of how I see stuff as well. I see it through a bit of a movie prism. Yeah, that's cool. I like that description. There is, I will say there's, I would love to know if anybody picks up on a very specific, I know what you did last summer reference. Here is going to be so mad that he's not here because he is.

such a screen fan. He's such a, I know what he did last summer fan. He's going to be like, God damn it. If he reads it, then I would love to know he spots it. I don't think, I don't think I caught it, but I'm not, I'm not like, I don't know, like I haven't seen it as many times as I think he probably has is what I'm trying to say. Like, it's been a while. But yeah, yeah, it is kind of like, I do, I can't remember. I don't know. I thought I had a, offshoot question of that, but I don't. Oh no, that's what it was. Needleman. That is like the most one. Okay, there we go. So what was it like creating your villain for this one? Like, did you have like ideas from the get-go? Did it change a little bit? Or what was it there?

I kind of had a bit of a space there where I knew I wanted to put something Hillary, but I didn't really have a full idea yet. And I kind of looked at, things like the Babadook and I looked at Freddy Kruger. I looked at Dark Man by Sam Ramey. I just thought there's something very cool and timeless about that particular silhouette. You know, trench coat bandages, hat, weird, needly fingers. You know, I just thought that was so different to everything else that was going on around the plot. So to so to shove him in there, suddenly made it feel less like just a thriller and more like it was actually kind of be a horror book. Yes, yeah.

Yeah. It really was, because like it, that's like on Goodreads or anywhere. The beginning of it, the synopsis talks about how it's a horror suspense mashup. And it really is like both things. Like it's not, it doesn't feel super, super natural. I guess that is the way to say that. That it feels like ungrounded if you're mostly a thriller fan. a suspense fan, but it's also not like just suspense. So no, that I think I was kind of trying to

squeeze into like a really tiny narrow little gap between Riley Sega and Grady Hendrix. Yeah. You know, like I wanted to write thrillery stuff, but I also love pop culture. I love horror. I love playing around with tropes. So I thought, I'm just going to try to wriggle into that little space and see what happens. And if it's terrible, it's terrible. but if it works, maybe I've found a little, you know, a little gap in there. Yeah. So, yeah, hopefully I've managed to get in there. Yes.

I think it's fun. Like, some of my favorite or, like, more memorable books that I read are ones where, like, it is a genre mashup because they end up feeling so unique. I think that's part of it. Is it not, it's not like all of the most common ones in either genre. Yeah, I love a genre pick and mix. know that like marketing people hate it because they need to sell this thing as something easily definable. But I love when a book or a film just sort of like splices a bunch of stuff

together and you get this really interesting sort of texture to it. It makes something unique. I totally agree. So what we've been asking people at the end is what books you've read recently that you would recommend to people or anything, TV shows, movies, whatever. But what have you been enjoying lately? Okay. So I've just, a couple of months ago, I read Mayve Fly by CJ Lead, which is going huge. I'm seeing it everywhere. Have you heard about it? I have heard about it. I haven't read it. Okay. I've really recommended it. Like if you want horror, that is horror. It's like really horrific. but spectacular.

So, so good. And I just watched Knock at the Cabin, which is the movie adaptation of the Paul Tremblay novel, which I really enjoyed. I loved the queer narrative. I loved the way it played around with that setting.

I just thought it was fantastic. It was dreadful. The whole movie. If your other one was horrific, like we saw it in theaters, and I was just like, this is so gut-riching. Yeah, yeah, it really gets you.

And I'm finally watching, I know I'm super behind the rest of the world, but I'm finally watching The Last of Us. Oh, nice. Which I'm really enjoying. Such good storytelling. That's like, another, yeah, we watched it. Actually, I think we have,

we like binge watched all of the episodes except the finale, like the week leading up to the finale. So we were a little bit late on. it too, but like there were some people who were like, there's barely any zombies or like, it's not his action packs. And I'm like, it's because they're telling stories. So I love it. You don't want to show the monster too much. Yeah. Yeah. If you show the monsters too much, it just becomes the threat loses any sort of traction, you know. I agree. I agree. It doesn't such. Sorry. No, no, you're fine. I was just going to say it's like you else, it's another one where you just feel dread the whole time because you're not sure. It's not like they're showing up all the time. You're just kind of like, oh yeah, something bad could happen. Yeah. And when they turn up, they are horrifying. They don't let you down. Yeah. For sure. I love that one a lot too. So where should people follow you to keep up with everything you're doing? I'm on Twitter at Josh Winning. I'm on

Instagram at Joshua Winning. And if you want to go old school and check out my website, it's Joshuawining.com. Yes. Pick up the websites. Well, thank you for coming on and talking about your book today. Thank you so much for having me. It's been really fun.