Bookwild - Horror We Are Excited to Read with Kayla Hardy

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

This week, Kayla Hardy - screenwriter, reader, and author of The Quarter Queen - and I talk about horror books we are excited to read this year!Kate’s Upcoming ReadsThe Unhaunting — Micaiah JohnsonNightjars — Michael WehuntIncarnate — Alma Katsu Kayla’s Upcoming ReadsRunner — Ashley M. LattimoreHorror Movie — Paul TremblayThe Buffalo Hunter Hunter — Stephen Graham Jones Other Books We DiscussedThe Quarter Queen — Kayla HardyThe Night and the Moth — Rachel GilligBetween Two Fires — Christopher BuehlmanBlood Slaves — Markus RedmondBlood Rising — Markus RedmondRing Shout — P. Djèlí ClarkBlack Leopard, Red Wolf — Marlon JamesThe Reformatory — Tananarive DueFiend — Alma KatsuPerfect Victims — Mohammed El-KurdOur Cut of Salt — Dana HelmThe Disappearers — Marlon JamesThe Hunter’s Daughter — Nicola SolvinicThe Sleeping Sisters — Jennifer GivhanSalt Bones — Jennifer GivhanBlood Sisters — Vanessa LillieTruth to Power — S.A. Cosby  All the Bookwild Links:Check Out the Bookwild SubstackSubscribe to Bookwild on YouTubeGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramCheck Out Author Social Media Packages Follow Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mbaErin Ashley @bellametaphor

As I have done in the past, sometimes you have really fun episodes with the authors and then you're like, oh, I think we could have a fun episode as readers. So Kayla Hardy is back with me. She's the author of The Quarter Queen that you have seen me posting and talking about for a few months at this point. But I think we have a lot of crossover in what we read and watch. So I thought it would be fun to do just a buddy episode. So thanks for coming back. Thank you, Kay. I mean, you're like my bestie at this point and have the same taste in books. And yeah, I can yap all day about books. So that's what we're going to do. I know. Me too. That it was like the fun part of like having both or like two episodes, normally two episodes each week is like I can still talk to authors. But then I can also still just like have fun and talk about books. And whatever else I'm interested in in that week. It gets us through these dark times. Yes. Yes. So. Well, also, sometimes at the beginning, are you reading anything right now? Like, do you have a current reads that you're kind of enjoying? Well, first of all, you tell us about it.

I just popped into the Barnes & Noble's in Canton, and they've been very supportive of Quarter Queen, by the way. And I was up? I'm popping into my best days. And was it the Night in the Moth? And I've been wanting to read this. And then I got the beautiful paperback. And so I'm excited to read this.

I feel like it's very in the wheelhouse of Quarter Queen, like a priestess and everything, vision. Okay. So that's not horror. I plan to read that tomorrow night because I read a book in the day. I'm like, give it here. But I'm reading between two flyers right now and have you read this? Oh.

Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Yes. It's basically like a former knight and an orphan girl and basically like they're, she's convinced like Satan and his demons are basically bringing about this war against heaven. So it has like the raised dead saints, like very like dark Catholic. which I'm all about clearly.

Devils and demons. I'm like, please give that here. Give that here. And so it just feels very visceral and haunting. And I don't know how to say like, like even if you're not religious, very present with like how the world feels right now. And so I'm really enjoying that one and help be wrapped up.

I'm like, but tonight I want to say after I get done my writing, my next running sprint. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Well, you know that one's my TBR as well. I you know the night in the moth I think it's because the second one is coming out this week I think

I think so did you read night in my mom and I haven't read it yet okay okay okay so that when you picked it up I was like oh literally I think two or three days ago I was like getting on story do you storygraph at all I as an author I try to stay out of it but I do lurk I learn that's okay they have I love their like personalized like they have in-house an in-house algorithm that they've built for the record people they're not using generative AI it's their own algorithm but it will tell you like it does a really good job of being able to tell if a book is going to be for me so literally like three or four days ago I was like looking at the night in the moth I'm like so what do you think and it's like this seems like a strong

match and I was like okay so yeah now that one's kind of been on my radar so now I might need to start that one. I think so. The audio version a few months ago because Libro FM had a sale and I think it was like 499 and I was like, no. I'm like, just buy it. I'll read it when I read it. Yeah. I agree. My sister. My sister wrecked it yesterday at Barnes & Noble. She's a librarian. So I was like, yes, do your job girl. But also I was like, I'm going to pick this up because I'm really, I think I'm bad sometimes about like, because my TVR list is so long that I'll go in. Does anyone else have this problem where like you can go in to like Barnes & Noble?

was in like sensory overload and I leave with nothing nothing yes I'm not gonna do that this time I'm leave with a book it's so hard to decide yes I know when it's just all there yep yep yeah I just I'm gonna have to get a trophy copy because the cover is gorgeous isn't it I just finished and loved with my whole heart the sleeping sisters by Jennifer Yvonne yeah the sydilis right now I read salt bones of hers last year and I didn't realize she has an even larger backlist than I expected. Yeah, yeah. But I really love salt bones.

This one is like the short, short synopsis is Fortuna Miracle-les moves her family to a new neighborhood hoping to escape a violent ancestral curse only for a body discovered in her backyard to connect her family to a decades-old string of unsolved murders. And it has Chicana indigenous folklore, which is kind of like a hallmark of her stories. The, the, like, horror part is, like, extremely creepy and trippy. But I would also say if you're someone who, like, doesn't always love horror, but you love, like, thrillers that are, like, solving crimes, this is one of those where, like, it's also so crime heavy.

Or, like, one of the characters is the detective trying to solve it even that I think this is, like, a really good intro for people who, like, maybe they don't like really abstract horror or I had people tell me like sometimes horror it's hard to keep track of. This is like if you like thrillers, I think you would really like this one too. And I just, her author's note at the end talks about how she was inspired because she heard about there was a serial killer terrorizing women around the Sleeping Sisters of volcanoes. And so she wanted to kind of still have an homage to missing and murdered and indigenous and Latino women.

So it's powerful. It is very powerful. And I loved it. I'll be getting this. That was what I just finished. It's gorgeous. Like 30 minutes ago. So you're like the wounds are so fresh.

My heart fell stumped on. I'm here at this podcast. Okay. All right. Like I was drying my hair and like listening to the end of it. I will be getting this first of all because I'm like the cover is freaking gorgeous. It was beautiful. Beautiful.

And you are. know me inject into my veins if it has like a horror especially too i love like mixing genres you know i don't give it here but also i love true detective too like that first season so it sounds like a bit of that and that kind of like also like silence of the lambs kind of feel that like with very fresh take thank you yeah yeah it reminded when i first started and was like oh wow this is like really good it really reminds me of like sharp objects needs um like blood sisters by Vanessa Lilly. Okay.

And so in Blood Sisters with Vanessa Lily, it's one of those things where like there is a paranormal element, but it doesn't, but it also feels it's, and it's, um, a woman who works for the Indian Bureau of Affairs. Okay. And, um, is indigenous herself. And her sister went missing. And then some other girls go missing. So it's also about missing and murdered indigenous women.

And so I think that's kind of part of why it was reminding me of that. And then kind of like hauntings as a like reminder of women who didn't get justice. So it really reminds me of that. And then like the whole sharp objects part, I think there's a specific word for Gothic. Because it's not a Southern Gothic necessarily, but it's like she's in New Mexico. I think there's a kind of new term for. Gothic on that side of the country. Like a Western-infused kind of goddhury.

Yeah. Yeah. I've been doing those more of those kind of books where it's like a Western. I'm like, I'm all for it because again, I have its own loaded history. Like with the idea of going west and like kind of curse fate of El Dorado and all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And her salt bones one really. The salt bones one really gets into like more of kind of what you're saying to the like settlers, which like not settlers. just like imperialists and colonialists all of that it really gets into like the environmental damage that happened too so yeah she really writes about some interesting stuff this is on my list immediately because I think that's I love when a book can talk up take these kind of tropes and themes and it's up it on its head because like again the idea of going west to find your fortune which I'm not saying these books do but like if anything is set in new next I'm like my mind goes

to the history and I'm like yeah people seeking their fortune based upon the book bones and misfortunes of people and displacing them. I'm like, great. Very American. It's very American. Yes. So yeah, I highly recommend that one. It's one where I had C.J. lead. She wrote headlights this year. And that was another one where I was like, this is a procedural and it has horror elements. So those two now are both in my like, I see. I was like, you're like, give me that. Yeah. Of people who are like, I don't know. I don't like straight horror or like entirely horrible. So those are my two wrecks for people who want to like dip their toe in some horror. Thank you for making my TVR list even longer.

I know. I feel like you're going to probably do the same. Probably. I think so. I have a few. And like the oldie of goodies. And I also feel like I've been, I want to reread, was it 10 bears of flesh? Because I feel like not to get to like whatever.

I feel like that's very accurate for right now this week. I know. What's going on in the U.S.? I'm like, it's a good time to remind myself with a plot of this book. And then for people who haven't read it, it's basically like when the government is basically selling human flesh and forcing cannibalism through capitalism as like a secret meat and whatnot. And then the idea that the worker is like morally wrestling with that and being on the inside of that process. Genuinely has parallels with the recall of every piece of food that we have right now.

And this like mystery meat that he's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. That one's another really good one for right now. If like us, reading the fictional wars helps you feel better. It helps me feel better. Some people are like, I don't want, and I'm like, no, this like helps me like process it through something else. Me too. It makes me feel like, again, we're not alone and we're nothing new is kind of under the sun. But also I'm like, I like, so what did they do in this book? What can I do? You know what I mean? differently. I know. Some people are like, how can you read like dystopian right now? I'm like, I need another steps to survive the apocalypse. If it's for me, you know what I mean? Before it turns to

leave mad max, I'm going to figure this out. Yes. I agree. Well, I could, have you been watching anything as well? So I have, for whatever reason, I'm not, I'm, I grew up as a big nerd. So I read a lot of common books and whatnot. And then shout out to Sophia, the artist for Quarter Queen who did re as like Scarlet Witch. I was like this is so fucking badass. Because like this is the whole side. We use Scarlet Witch as the mood board for like going into like the Marines, like how to visualize things. And so all that to say, I'm watching lanterns, which in my brain is the perfect segue way. But it's like I again, I feel like it has that perfect grounded prestige TV of like true detective meets Green Lanterns.

I've been enjoying it. I like a odd couple buddy thing. I was getting into some things that we're doing right now. So I really enjoyed last night's episode. And, of course, into the vampire. Like, I've been kind of be watching that to get my heartbroken again. My mom is, like, reading the books now. Wow. And so, yeah.

So she's like, this, my chest, it hurts. Yes. Yeah. So those two, yeah, because of my glutton for punishment. Yeah. I want to start lanterns. I have, I've seen all the conversations. I think you like it.

I think you like it. And I think you would definitely. be yeah like I really I am not someone like I have not watched everything that especially Marvel is so large did you see what they said

sorry did you say they want to do a detective show of course they do of course they do it was announced yesterday I'm like of course y'all do after the heels of Blender I'm sorry yes it's crack me up oh my gosh well I would probably watch that too me too I'm seeing it I'm just yeah yeah

Yeah, I love like Agatha. I loved Agatha all along so much and Wanda Vision. Like there are a bunch that are so good. So I and I loved like Jessica Jones when that was on. That was my fucking show. I actually knew of Byers Assistant on there. And she said it was so amazing to shoot in New York and just like. Yeah.

First of all, I just love the themes of that. I think it goes on what you're talking about like the detective and noir and like she's getting over her trauma. of what's happened to her and like what's his name was it Kilgrave yeah the guy who was played by david Tennant David Tennant the the worst version of David Tennant and still this sounds terrible still charming like a compelling villain he's a rapist and like he puts her through the ringer and it's like it I just loved the idea of Jessica yes yes yes the first season I mean I watched all of them and enjoyed them but the first season yeah the way they like I

I was watching that after I had just like finally like learned about gaslighting in therapy. Oh, okay. So I was like watching this. I was like, oh, this is actually a really incredible example of like overreaching power and all that. Yes. Yes. And then like, what was it? The sidekick's mother was horribly toxic.

And I'm like, you just got to cut people off like that. Cut them off. I said, no. I agree. Yeah. That was my show. And Luke Cage. Yes.

Everything. I know and I'm so excited because S.A. Cosby's Luke Cage novel comes out in October. Oh, okay, wait. I didn't even know they were still doing a new novelization. Yes, yes. I was just talking to a friend because she lives in Houston

and she's going to go to an event for it. And I was like, oh my gosh, I am so jealous. What is it called? Truth to power, I think. Yes, truth to power. power. Yes, I'm very excited about that too. My mind is blown. I didn't even know they were doing that. And then of course, I say Cosby is like a beast at like noir and like Southern God. Okay. Well, I'm a fan really. My blood pressure is one up because I'm like, I need to get this. I know. Yes. I know. I'm pretty

excited too. But yeah, I'm definitely, I think I'm going to watch lanterns today. I think I might start in on that. It's cool. I just finished Furious, which. I didn't know. I didn't watch you. I didn't watch it but I'm going to. It is cathartic. It's wonderful if you are a woman who is like, not how did we get here because some of us know how we got here, but if you're just generally frustrated with who's in power and who keeps getting protected, curious, will be cathartic on so many levels for you. And they do a really cool thing where like it's about like, trafficking, sex trafficking girls and women, but definitely when they were girls. And they don't show any of that on screen. And they only show like the devastation in their faces, in their bodies.

There's a lot that was reminding me of, I know he's problematic, but the concept of the body keeps the score is like very alive. Oh, no. I mean, that's, that's it, right? Like, our body's stored trauma. Yes. So they really only show it through that. And so like Emmy Rossum and Lola Pettacru, like their acting is. I mean, is a is a goat. Incredible. Yeah. I can't. Since shameless days and before. But I'm like, yes, yes. Okay. Well. It's fantastic too. Isn't it? I just watched a montage. I just go on Twitter. I still call it Twitter X. And I'll just watch like, like, see a scene pack from like shameless. Like, like, V and was it V and Kevin? Yes. Yes. I just cracked myself.

We and Kevin were hilarious. They were hilarious and like, this is like not related at all, but who was it, Svetlana when they had like the girl? I was like, yes. With all the babies. Yes. Oh my God. Yeah, there are so many funny plot lines.

Go to TV. Oh, I love that show so much. And it was like right around the time that I was like, it was kind of like when bingeing TV was becoming something. Yes. because streaming had like hit so hard. Yep. And then there were like seasons to binge.

And I was like, oh, this is so much fun. Yeah, I know I'm going to devote my life to the next three weeks. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I miss those days. I miss those faces. I do too.

I know. Now we got to wait every Sunday for prestige television. I know. I know. Well, I guess we should talk about some books since we do have to wait for TV sometimes. Okay. Well, the first one that I was going to mention, the cover is so cool. And it had been on my radar.

And then Clay McLeod shared something last night about it and said that it is like Shirley Jackson meets Tony Morrison. And I was like, say less. It's called The Unhaunting by Michaia Johnson. Miss ma'am. What is this? What is this like? I need this. Yeah. So like here I just wrote like two sentences. Chantelle and her friends believe they found the perfect sanctuary in Abernathy House, a seemingly peaceful home where nothing bad has happened in 170 years. And we're simply

living there mysteriously begins to heal them. But when ghosts emerge despite the house's spotless history, they uncover the sinister cost of its supernatural tranquility and discover there's something far worse than a haunted house, one that desperately wants to be haunted. Okay. Sounds like there's a sentient house going on and you already know I'm all about that. Yes. Okay. Like location as horror as in like the memory, the collective memory of things that have, which

I believe in. I'm like, yeah, it's something bad happening there. It just sinks in like a sink hole right in there. Yep. Yeah. Oh, okay. That's the vibe that I'm getting for sure. What is it called?

And the cover is so pretty. It's called The Unhaunting by Mikae Johnson. Okay. I think that's how you pronounce her name. Oh, yeah, and it's at the end of the Civil War. A daughter of the Confederacy made what she thought was an innocent to build house where nothing bad could happen. Oof.

But peace comes at a price. Oof, oof. I know. I'm very excited. Mm-hmm. Off the backs of that, have you read? read blood slaves? Oh my gosh.

No. And I feel like it feels like one I should have read by now because I've known about it for so long. So it feels like if we're like like like a seam pack, it'd be like somewhere in there like quarter queen ring shout blood slaves. And then was the unhaunting. Because it feels like we're talking like Southern Gothic. But I picked up blood slaves. I'm not finished yet. You like do you ever go between books and read them like and sometimes I'm not enjoying now.

I do. I just, I used to not. And now I'm like, oh, this is like brilliant. It's more fun. It's more fun. I feel like I'm jumping around timelines. But that one is literally like a supernatural horror of like slaves that basically, slave folks that basically get vampirism and like rise up, like, injected into my veins. I've got to read it.

You've got to read it. It's so delicious. And the sequel just came out. So I'm like. That's where I was like, oh, I was like, how did it, how has it been so long the sequels come out? And this is still on my TBR. I know. I know.

I know. It's like so many books. It's a little time. So many. Yeah. Well, I want to read that one now. You should read that one because I'm halfway through and I'm like, this is it. It's obviously very heavy, right? It's heavy, but it's also like, you know, I'm the kind of person that I've never, and I don't know everyone is kind of different and processing things differently. I need to like stare the monster in the face. And I don't like to. I think comes from like the historian roots. I don't like to negate history, specifically like African American or indigenous or black history. Because I feel like that's kind of how we got here. Especially not.

I think that's how we got here. So much of systemic education and the system has basically made things footnotes. And so I'm like, if I'm uncomfortable, I always tell us something, nothing's like compared to what the characters went through. It's like I can be uncomfortable for this read as long as I'm learning something around transverse. formed by something in the narrative. And I think to me, the beauty of like genre historical is that you're learning, but you get that like, um, I won't even say a veneer, but like the package of genre that maybe makes it, I don't want to say more palatable, but it gives you this great metaphor that you can kind of live through. Um, that to me, sometimes even maximizes,

like the historical parts. Because I'm like, fuck yes. Black people that are vampire, they're taking that shit back. Like, yes. Okay. That's it. Yeah. That's it for me. That's hope. that's how I, because I started reading more like nonfiction, um, that was a little bit more harrowing because our past is harrowing here. But also these kind of books. And I remember kind of like two years ago around election times. Some people are like, I can only read escapist stuff. And that's, I don't, I don't, no judgment by the way when I say this. Um, and I got, but I got to a point where I'm like a lot of the things that you're saying there, sometimes like having the genre part on it is like a good reminder that like they were just people trying to live their lives and then like

shit happened literally unfair and terrible um but but that kind of that part will kind of remind me like that kind of how we think of uh my friend mackenzie talks about how sometimes with like civil rights activists we think of them as like superhuman or or like these superheroes who wanted to do that and you're like no they were just living their lives like they were literally just just trying to be a person. And then on the flip side for me, without, not that I want anyone to have gone through terrible things, but both nonfiction and fiction are sometimes a really good reminder for me

that like things have always been difficult in different ways. And there have always been people who found ways to either rebel or resist or just like have their human moment. moments between each other, even when crazy stuff was going on. So it ends up making me feel like a little more connected and a little less like, how will humans ever like recover from like the present? And I'm like, we have always been connecting with each other. Like even if it was under oppression, not that I've been oppressed. Agreed. Agreed. It shows us that in the best way possible, maybe we're not unique. Yeah. And that there is something to

celebrate about the human spirit no matter how big it gets because sometimes I'm like I'm done with humanity like I know make me Patrick when we find my rock and get underneath it like you know what I mean and then and then you read a book that you're like okay we are worth um we're worth saving and I don't mean it sounds like nihilistic but sometimes I'm like either our stupidity or our cruelty absolutely turns me off and I'm like huh yeah huh but then you read something you're like sometimes it's not even about being like I think people think of like courage is like this griffindore kind of um we're all brave and like sometimes the circumstances either at like rose parks I'm just too tired keeps it like I just can't do it like you reach a point you're like

fuck it yeah yeah absolutely no yeah in the in the way courage can be like on a on a small scale can be yes powerful between two people even if you don't like change the whole world every single time you're courageous basically. Agreed. I love books. At the end of the day, the moralist, we love books. I mean, for real. Yeah.

I mean, without them, it'd be a dark place. It would be. I love books. I agree. Well, do you have one that you're looking forward to reading? So I'm also, and I'm going to wreck it for another podcast later, too, Runner, by Ashton Latimore, and she's also at Valentine. And it's like the rum running, like, it's like the Martha's Vineyard.

And I really like this one, not just because she's a fellow black woman author at Valentine, but also I, it's kind of like it's thrilling. It's like Black Hill rum running. But my family, my great-grandmother who was Louisiana Creel ran rum in the bayou. Yes, she had to escape. Oh my gosh. Yeah. She had to escape New Orleans after being sexually assaulted and moved to the bayou up in Georgia,

where she originally was born. A lot of Creels, you know, go back and forth. It was like nothing for them. And she met my grandfather who ran rum. And then she was kind of like a medicine woman. And so I felt very connected to this one. And I'm like, it just goes to show. Like, again, historical meets that sweet spot of like,

this is kind of a thriller. This is kind of a romance. It's like it feels, yeah, the best gumbo of like the mixture of genres. But a very necessary aspect, I think of like black history and like from running and like the idea that you can make one. own fortune by bending the rules and a system that was never built for us anyways um so that one i'm really enjoying hope to be done with that soon and i'm like i'm reading four books at the same time but yes i know that's on the horror one but i love it it's gorgeous well it's been on my radar

because oh now i can't even think of her name and i feel bad um i saw someone talking about it on TikTok a couple weeks ago. And she was like, I don't even like historical fiction. And this is so fun. And I, that's kind of what I had to, I realized over the last two years is I thought like historical fiction wasn't for me. And I'm like, oh, no. Like you could, I think it's kind of what you were talking about. Sometimes we forget that like it can be historical fiction. And then it could also be horror or thriller or yeah, like a mystery or like a family drama. Yes. So you just kind of have to find like the historical fiction you like but when she was like I don't even normally like it but this one like I'm like glued to it because the action is so good it's good I was like okay I've

got to get to this one too the list gets longer and longer yeah yes yeah but I think it's hitting that sweet spot for me of like historical but thrilling like I I feel like for me personally I need a historical that does a bit more I think I've just kind of learned that like I like obviously historical fantasy a historical war i want to i want the timeline to be remixed basically yeah that's it well and why not why not like look it why not yes okay i really want to that one i actually having just finished what i did i'm like ahead on my neck galley and my like interview reads and so literally i'm going to be choosing my next book to listen after this so that one is good i'm going to be torn but it might be that one. Well, you know, I would say like going between like what's blood slaves and that might be a bit

happy. But like maybe blood slaves first and then runner. It's like yeah pick up the mood. Yeah. Yes. And then I can go break your heart again to the second one. I can't remember which what is this? This is book one. The sequel. Blood rising I think is the sequel. Yes. Didn't it just come out? Yeah, just came out in August. Yes. I cannot wait. Or is it not out? It's not on Audible under his name. Hmm. I think it came on.

Am I tripping? Did it come out? Maybe I thought it had come out already, but maybe it probably comes out tomorrow. Let me see. Was it Blood Rising? I'm pulling it up. Yeah, Bloodsaga. It came out in August 25th.

Okay. Well, that's interesting. I wonder if the audio. It could be delayed sometimes. Yeah. It can be delayed. Yeah. It's hard to get.

What it is. yeah okay well i'm intrigued i'm intrigued you have time they give you one time to finish the first i do that's a good point so totally what did oh sorry i just got distracted by a text message so very different because this one's very modern but there is one called incarnate by omicatsu and i talked to her about her. She had one called Fiend last year. Okay. Which truly the comp, it earned its comp. The comp was like if succession had horror elements. Like basically if the entity was kind of like greed, basically. Give this one here too. Give it here. And so she was really fun to talk to about that one, but she has one coming out this year that is called the portrait of Dorian Gray for the internet generation.

And I was like, okay, tell me more. Tell me more. So it says Dorothy Wagner, a failed influencer working at a deep fake technology company, secretly creates Isabella, a stunningly realistic virtual woman who becomes a social media phenomenon and finally gives Dorothy the fame and fortune she craves. But as Isabella's obsessive fan base grows and the line between creator and creation begins to disappear, Dorothy's pushed toward violence and forced to confront just how much she'll sacrifice to protect her perfect digital illusion. I mean, that was a perfect pitch. It sounds like Dorian Gray, but like Mary Shelley Frankenstein, like going on here.

Like the creator. The creator. And are we, you know, I love. into like biblical mythology by it too because I'm like some of our best storytelling is probably there in those footnotes and it's like yeah the idea of like being created in god's image and what does that mean um right and then if we assume god has abandoned us what does that mean for the created um what do we do with that and I'm like yes I need this I need this because what is the internet anyways I know that's the question I like what I tell people that they're like I my algorithm is just so

terrible and it's so whatever i'm like you understand it's a mirror like my algorithm is not me is not that way or like when like old dudes when ticot started coming out and they'd be like all it is is young girls dancing over and over again i'm like uh it's not for me so yeah yeah it sounds like you're lingering on those you told you told you tell yourself yeah so yeah that i think the internet is fascinating because i understand why people will be like I hate the internet. I'm like it's the internet has human problems because it's made by humans and used by humans. It's not necessarily the internet itself.

It's a tool yet again. It's us. We're the problem. I fear. Yeah. I saw this quote where it's like most people are mirrors and I firmly believe that. Yeah. But if you listen, this is not related, but somehow it is.

It is. If you listen, people will tell on themselves. And I've been guilty of not leaning into. that lesson time and time again. I feel like sometimes it's easy to fall for the veneer or, again, you talk about gaslighting. And it's like people can see all the right things, but it's that subtext. And honestly, like, if you listen to people, they will tell you if they hate you, if they hate themselves.

And I've just kind of realized it's that thing where people can only meet you as deeply they've met themselves. And we often make, it's like having a crush. We make the person glossier, shinier, it's all. projection of what they should be versus listening. And so I feel like so much of the 30s is just calming down and listening to folks and being like, yep, you're not for me. Nope, you're not for me.

And just like, I also think that's a big part of giving grace too. Like, I need to give you the grace. It's like very Catholic space. Yeah. Telling yourself. And it's not my job to fix you. But like when I hear some with the internet and perfectionism and I'm like, yeah, your algorithm is very dark because I think your headspace is that way or very sexist or

whatever else and I'm like yeah you're right it's a tool to mirror yes yeah yeah it's that I love that quote that's like when people tell you who they are believe them oh yeah yeah it was that you should Maya Angelel I think so yeah I think she's talking to Oprah and she was explaining that yeah that's what I yeah that was what I kept saying about yeah it is her but it is the thing that I think the caveat today is like there are so many things that stop you from believing because it can be like for me for instance it can be like toxic family it's like well family is family and it's like no family is what you make exactly um friends pressure religion church structure all those things are invisible pressures especially i feel like that keep women in particular um trapped in certain

positions forever and ever and ever until you're brave enough to get like the scholar letter yeah yeah Well, and then some of the women then just go all in. And they're like, if I adopt the patriarchy or if I adopt white supremacy, I'll be safe. And that's, it doesn't work that way. It's not how it works in the long run for them. No, I always, when I teach not so much now, but when I've taught American history like that, and I begin the class with telling my kids. And these freshmen are just like, oh, I would say, like, white supremacy kills white people. and they'd be like what and I'm like it's an idea right not to diminish the horrifics of like racism

but if you play it out it's just this idea of exceptionalism and if that theory plays itself all the way out then it just becomes an idea of like okay so white folks are just left what is whiteness right we get into that like middle eastern cultures and whether they're the petition for whiteness and it's this idea this binary this like black and then white or whatever exists in between And it's really hard to hear. And then like Asian, Japanese. Exactly. That are like traditionally even whiter than what we consider white people were not like included in that.

Yes. And then it becomes this conscious like what is whiteness. And it becomes synonymous with things historically with greatness or purity. And I often think that history has shown us that they will if you, I think of it and I think talk to this in Quarter Queen. it in itself is an entity or a beast that consumes itself of the Euroboros. And if you let it consume itself in this cycle, it just keeps debowering and debowering. And if you try to push back against that, it'll eat you too. Yes.

And so they did lynch white folks. And I think here in Akron. And they're not doing it currently. No. But they, you know, historically was it the John Brown house we have here in Akron. Like he was a white man that was like super against slavery and had an uprising. And they gave. him the weapons here. And then when it was time to get a scapegoat, we gave him the weapons. I say

we like Ohio and then hung him out to dry and let him get, basically, I think he was hung. I don't think it was firing squad. I could be wrong. But like, he's a big figure here in Akron. But I'm like, it's funny. We always celebrate that like, you didn't mean after, but it's like we hung him out to dry basically for doing the right thing. When I say right thing, it's like, it gets very John the Conjure and whatnot. Like, do we fight oppression? Fire with fire. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and yes, sometimes that is the only option you have. I kind of say that. I definitely think there's this idea that we hold colonized people or oppress people to these really weird moral standards.

Yes. But you don't hold the colonizers to. And yeah. There's a book I read last year called Perfect Victims by, oh, I feel so terrible that I don't remember his name. by Muhammad L. Kurd, and it's about the media attention and how we talk about Gaza and Palestinian people and like what is expected of them for exactly what you're saying, where like, can they only get our sympathy as victims if they're like these incredibly perfect people? And then I was reading a book.

I'm interviewing her in three days. A book called Our Cut of Salt by. Oh, that's on my list. That's on my list. Yes. Yes. And it was it was kind of crazy because I had read perfect victims like months ago. But this even ties in with the superhero conversation we were having.

She has a part in it where like an elder person in Palestine is saying to her, listen, Marina, we're not superhero. heroes it's not something special to live in palestine under occupation we're just humans we have ordinary dreams of ordinary lives it's just yes we're trying to change things and get others to see the injustice and in the occupation through activism or education or throwing stones we all resist in our own ways but in the day to day it's life same as any other we're not special and i don't want you or anyone else to think that it turns us into something untouchable a people with something brilliant ability to endure and when we mess up when we do our best but it sometimes i'm getting chills reading it but it sometimes isn't good enough we're villainized because now we have such a far way

to fall and i was like girl i'm going to miss the eye i'm like i know i have chills on my legs and my arms just reading it i was like that is incredible and the whole book is like that it's it is horror it's beautiful literary horror that's top of my list well i saw you posted and i was like I saw someone else talking about it. And I'm like, this is we call it Necessary Literature. It is beautiful. It's harrowing and it's beautiful. Kind of everything we've been talking about with what fiction can confront basically.

In particular in the situation with Gaza, I'm like, I feel like, are you being jasslet? Like, you can, like, and the answer is obviously yes, but like, you know, am I getting in trouble for saying any of this? But I mean, I don't care. I'm going to have her on the podcast. Yeah. You watch those horrors and I'm like. how can we do this? How?

Two people. How can we do this? There's no situation where that is okay. And it's still, people still are like, oh, girl. Shocked that people say free Palestine. Oh, it's like, to be quite frank. It's a contentious thing in Hollywood to even say that.

Because the fear is that I think you'll get called anti-Semitic. And I'm like, I'm not sure that I'm actually positive. The things are not mutually exclusive. And that there's Zionism is like a very different thing that being. Yes. Proud of being Jewish. And a lot of my Jewish friends are anti-Zionists and have talked about it.

I'm like, if we just go by virtue of like a nation of children just being decimated. Literally. It's so godless to me. We talk about God. Like God is like the spirit and like I can get to a whole different podcast about this. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I just this this my spirit is on it feels it's so sad yes yeah it is I hate it and it the what I wish

people could and I know why it's tricky um I understand why it's a like sticky conversation and a lot of people also just have not educated themselves on enough of even what's happening um but I wish they could wrap their head around so there are some people in my life who definitely voted for Trump, like definitely, especially where I live. And they can make it work in their brain that they voted for him, but they don't agree with everything he does. And so I feel like people know how to live in America and be like, well, I'm not responsible for like the worst things that my country does. do the same thing about Israel too. Like you could even have lived there.

You could be Jewish and you could also be like, I'm not okay with how Netanyahu is acting and still keep it separate from thinking everyone who lives there is on board with it, but people can't, they can't make both of those. We are so wired into black and white thinking. Yeah. And just there's a lot of deprogramming

that would probably need to have. happen for people to start separating. Let's just start with morality and legality. Two separate things and have always been conflated. So the detriment of always to oppress people. Yes. I know. It's so sad. I know. But yeah, I do recommend for... At the end of the day, I will be getting this book. Yes. Our cut of salt comes out on September 22nd. And she'll, her episode will air that day so everyone can add that to the 22nd 2nd yeah i'll make sure that i'm tuning in for that yes if you like audiobooks the narrator's amazing please narrating um i think it's her first victoria nasif is because i couldn't find her on instagram either okay um but the idea is that

marina who uh actually i'll just uh pull this up marina is the like third generation um of, where did it go? There we go. So, this was my summary of the plot. Dina Helm tells the harrowing story of three generations of women, descendants of a Palestinian family, violently displaced by Israeli soldiers in 1948, who occupied their homes and destroyed their cities.

Marina, seeking to understand her ancestry, plans a trip to the home of her grandmother, much to her mother's discontent. As Marina meets people in present-day Haifa, and explores her grandmother's haunted house, she pieces together the heartbreaking events that led her grandmother to flee her home. And so it is a haunted house as well

that is somewhat sentient. And the narrator brings the house to life. And it's very cool if you enjoy audio books. I do. I'll be immersive reading with that one. Yes. Yeah, that's what I ended up doing because I had both.

So that was why I was able to pull up my like highlight so quickly. it's great. What else is we say? I know. I'm just going to make your fall busy. Busier, busier, busier. But again, I think, you know, that's the part of being, I think, a good literary citizen is the constant of you reading. There's always more to learn. Always more to read, more to learn.

More to just expose yourself too. And that sounds like cliche, but the more you can get outside of your own bubble, the more, I think I'm like naturally, we talked about this before, like a skeptic. I just, yeah. inside of me. And I feel like that side of myself is at war with like the juju's side of myself. And I feel like I'm constantly, so that parable like the wolf, the one you feed.

And I feel like weirdly enough, fiction is helping me to just kind of expand like my mindset. It's like folklore mythology and like what are belief systems. And decenter my own, basically. Right. Which I feel like it's very important. That's how we get empathy.

A lot of people. Yeah. I think. I always say I just want to stay cute. curious is like something I kind of say along those lines. And then like what I've told people is like even if you wanted to selfishly read diversely, a good reason to read diversely is if you read a lot, then you're getting to like read a story that maybe takes place in a never in a setting you've never been to or even read it. Maybe like yeah, you're getting to learn the mythology of

someone else's culture. And so like for me it like enriches it. And so like, and helps because I read so much. So even if you wanted to make it about yourself, which is okay too, like it's more fun to like get more settings and people and all of that. I agree. I agree. And I think we talk about mirrors and I'm like, I want to get away from my own mirror, if that makes sense.

Like I want to get away from the reality. I think we all have our own PLV and we come into books and everything with that. We carry that with us. And I feel like we get a little bit less of that baggage. the more you can read things that, I guess, for lack of their term, just challenge you. Yes. Yeah. I completely agree.

We're on the same page there. I love that pun. Yes, I know. I love a pun. Do you have another one you're looking forward to read? Let's see. 22 fires. Did you, we talk about horror books.

This is a classic one. Did you ever read Paul Chumbay's horror movie? Sorry, what did you say? I don't know why I couldn't hear. No. Paul Chimblaze horror movie. Did you ever read that one? Oh, no.

I have not read that one of his. Okay. Well, he was at Clemens Book Festival and I got a chance to speak with him about it. I remember reading that a while back because I was working on a screenplay and this was kind of like on the syllabus of it. And he does this really cool thing, I think, in the book where he inserts a screenplay into the actual book. So like, talk about breaking rules and conventions. That is really freaking cool. It's basically like metafiction, basically like this in the 1990.

they're filming this movie with um so i'm going to butcher this they're basically filming a movie and there's a serial killer kind of like a killer in the movie and then it starts recreating itself later when they're about to do a sequel and he will actually start kind of getting killed off and dying and then he has the screenplay um insert it into the book which is as a screenwriter kind of like nerdered out about i'm like how did you get to do like because you're paul that's why so i i just like that one just purely for breaking form and i think it's going she adapted it into a movie because like how could it not so I'm excited to see the movie of that come out but this is a really classic fall horror read yeah yes this one has been on my tBR for a very long time

well two years I guess it came out two years ago it's cool um it sounds so fascinating I'm always intrigued by that idea like like copycat killers yes yes yes yes yes we too yeah there's a there's one that Gere just told me about this bee just won't die and it's like a similar thing where a former screen queen basically wants to come back and like redo the franchise and then that same thing

starts happening as like the kills from the movie start happening in real life and it has like a Barbie like Barbie on the cover with blood everywhere like I think I've seen this. Oh, Instagram. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. I think it will be very campy. And I don't know if horror movie is more campy or bleak. I think this one's a little more campy. Hore movies bleak. It reads beautifully, but it's definitely like, it's got, I will say it's got, he's got the screw matter thing down because like the guys look at the general meeting. It's like, I've been in this situation before.

But like very like, to me, bleak and plays with form. This sounds like, like Ryan, the other one sounds like Ryan Murphy kind of being the best way, which you need sometimes. I need that in my life. I need some camp. Yeah. Oh, totally. I know. Sometimes you're like, or sometimes I'm like, oh, like, oh, well, I am, I fully expect this one to take me weeks, but I just started The Disappears by Marlon James. Oh, God, it's heavy. It is so heartbreaking. And it's that same one where I'm like, I'll be done like reading my like 30 to 50 pages per day that I can handle right now. You love breaking your own heart. You're like, I just want to stumped on ripped out of my chest. Yeah.

I know. What is wrong with me? And then sometimes I'm like, well, I need something lighter. And then I'm like, well, I don't read anything that is ever considered completely light. So this is where we need campy whores sometimes. Exactly. Exactly.

My mom actually, I think her copy should be here soon. I think he's actually, Marlon's going to be in Cleveland on the 11th, which I can't do. I can't go because my sister's having surgery. So I'm going to be in Columbus that day. I'm like, otherwise I do. be seated because I think Marlon did black leopard he did black leopard red wolf did you read that I haven't read any of his like he's like new to me now

I was like how has he not been on my radar oh okay so I need to read that for sure yes if you were a fan of quarter queen then you'll love that I think it is I only read the first one I think that one is um duology it's like basically it's like game of thrones but like in like Africa like brutal like honestly queer and so many things in there I was like oh it was in all it was in all it's a trilogy okay oh the third one hasn't come out I think Michael be Jordan has the movie rights oh that will be amazing okay yeah I added like all of his books

to my TVR he's an amazing about him and I was like how I heard about or him and I was like how I mean, I think I kind of generally know how I didn't know, but yeah, he's new for me. Brilliant writer. Yeah. Kind of like in that, that guy's talking about like with like blood, was it blood slaves and like quarter queen and like ring shout. Even like the reformatory kind of like the idea of like taking history and giving this like injection of genre and like his. I mean, that felt like, like, brutal, like, Game of Thrones, like, in the best way possible. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's tight. Oh, gosh. I want to read that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I saw in one of his interviews. He said, like, he was like, the disappears isn't auto fiction, but it is my first book. And I was like, that's fast.

And I was like, that's fascinating. And he said something interesting to, because he was like, normally that's an author's first book. And he was like, it took me six books to be ready to do it. And I was like, that's fascinating. Yeah. You know it's going to hurt because it's the alchemy of like, you know, writing, I think sometimes it's best is when the writer can deeply alchemize their own experiences into fiction. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. Well, and like the, yeah, dealing with homophobia and racism. Like, yeah, it's like in the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know. It was rough. Well, I have one that might be a little bit lighter, lighter horror, maybe. I mean, it's. It's not light. But I'm really intrigued. I got to prove for the audio for this one. It's called Night Jars by Michael Wehunt.

When disturbing photographs appear to show Luke Oshall committing murders that he can't remember, he fears he may have inherited the darkness of his serial killer father who drained his victims of blood. Yeah, so much lighter. Not light at all, Kate. As new killings draw him. into the North Georgia Appalachians. Luke must unravel repressed memories in a centuries old

secret to discover who or what is responsible and whether the monster he's hunting is himself. These terrify me because one of my biggest fears is being framed and going to prison for some reason. Oh shit. Like scares me so much.

So then like living in a whole book where the character's like did I do something terrible is like very compelling for me. So does he think that he might have done it or is actively doing it and like blacking out? He thinks he might be like blacking out and doing it. I think is what it is. Because he sees pictures of himself doing it. Oh my goodness. Did I do it? That's terrifying. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. Because like is evil inherited, right? Or is it nature versus nurture? It was going to get into that. Yeah. That's what I was thinking about. There's a really, it reminded me of what is, it's called the hunter's daughter by

Nicola Solvenick, where it's like, she's a police officer whose father was a serial killer who like dressed the girls up after he did it. Oh, gone. And like, like, place them in like a tableau with like flowers all over them. Oh, got it. Got it. And when she's like in her 30s, it starts happening again. And it's that same tension where she's like, because I'm my father's daughter, do I have to consider myself?

And I'm like, as someone who also, I mean, I'm no contact with both of my parents. So it's like, it's like something I've had to, a lot of my therapy in my 20s was learning that like I didn't have to panic every time I recognized a small part of my parent in me. I think that that's part of why they're so compelling because you're like, I know that these people weren't safe and I wanted to get away from them, but I am related to them. So I think that's why they, that those stories work for me. They work for me too because I think I often am just incredibly drawn to, again, you know, this like what is family. Yeah. But like there's this idea of like goes back like Ken and Abel. Like he's like in my brother's keeper and God's like, yes.

And this idea that family can be inherently harmful but also like there's like this weird tension between like you are bound to them. But you can figure yourself like weird. And I've always just kind of like pondered like where is the line? Yeah. Where do we draw the line at? And it can happen in a healthy way too. It's just like individuating in general from your parents is a healthy thing to do. But even if like nothing terrible has happened, it's always kind of hard to tell like what's you, what's them.

Totally. What do you want? Like all of that. I think that's also in my mind because like I feel like I would keep writing mother daughter stories. And I'm like clearly clearly. Clearly. I'm like, well, I was great now. But like I think I'm just, when you're.

you experience something so viscerally growing up. I'm like, huh, I'm really interested. Maybe, like, not even unpacking that. Maybe I guess so. But, like, I want to see different ways it could play out the striations of that dynamic. And I feel like, especially with girls and their moms, I feel like we're often just naturally, the way society positions us as like, you've got all of her best and worst. Yes. And I'm like, but what if your mother was truly, truly awful? Like, do we, are we supposed to be better or we're trying to be independent of that. And so yeah, I'm obsessed with mother-dust. I see, I see why our paths have crossed. You're really going to love the sleeping sisters then, too, because that's a big part of it. Oh, is it? As I was reading it, yeah,

as I was reading it, I was like, okay, I don't know if I'm going to interview her, but once a book is like giving me enough to think about, I tend to be thinking of questions for the author. And salt bones is the same way it's like all about it really is all about the relationship between a mother and her daughters and then in this one it's a mother and her daughter and her son um but i was like she really likes to write about this and then i looked in her bio and her bio says like writer of monstrous mama stories and i was like this is adorable you're for me you're for me yeah yeah so she's up there in that with us i think it's hard it's hard not to be i think just being a woman um yeah I don't have any kids.

I think maybe I'm like, I think I will want them. I don't know. But I often think I don't want to fuck that up. And I think it can seem inherently monstrous because like what is happening to my body. Is my body going to get back? Like all these questions and like I don't want to mess up another human being. All those things. I'm like, it's like creating an entity.

I'm like, oh God. So like, yes. Yes. There is something distantly maybe. I won't say horrifying, but like, othering about that experience because I'm like I've seen it go wrong for so many people. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. I agree. You're like, amen. I'm like, boy, does it go wrong. Oh, God. I think it's people follow the social script and they probably, I don't mean this horribly. Some people probably shouldn't have children. And then they do because they, you know, the social script is like, hit these miles,

a light picket fence, house. Like, yes. And then you realize you just want, you have no business attending to a child or another Yeah. One of the, I mean, and I understand why it's a sad statement, but one of the most freeing moments for me in therapy was when I realized I don't think my mom wanted to have children. And it actually just makes it easier to understand as someone who's introverted and overstimulated easily and all that stuff where I'm like, if you just felt like you or if she just felt like she had to have kids because it was the next thing to do, it actually makes it less hurtful. It doesn't. doesn't get rid of like the damage that I have to like I've learned to navigate but it makes it less hurtful if I'm like I just don't think you wanted to have kids that's a sobering thought and I think maybe the utility there is that we give we realize our parents have their own stories they're autonomous and they were basically subject of a cog in the machine like the social

script but also it means maybe weirdly enough I don't know how this might sound is not personal. That's exactly what it was for me. Yeah, it's like you just didn't. It wasn't about me. Yeah. But then you have to still consider yourself. That's the weird thing.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's tangled. It's all tangled together. Yeah. I would think in my mom's case, she wanted to be a good mom

and had in every single thing stopped her. Yeah. Addiction is a hell of beast. She's up against a lot. Oh, she struggled with addiction. for many, many years and they'd get clean until I was like 18 and I'm like, we talked about this. And I was like, I think my thing was like, I don't need you. I know.

Yeah, I know. Because he made me do it on my own. Yeah. I was running into that because my dad did therapy for a little bit. And then all of a sudden he was like, once we got to like the difficult stuff, all of a sudden he was just ready to be done. And the therapist was the evil one. But when he was doing it, he would be like, well, I want to hang out with you and I want to do this.

I'm going to do this. And I think kind of similar to the sentiment you're talking about, I remember finally having to say to him, like, just because you didn't show up for 18 years or at that point, 20 years, doesn't mean I'm just clearing my schedules so that we can just like recreate what you didn't do. Like I can even at that point, I don't even know where I fall on forgiveness and if it's necessary or not. But even at that point, I was like, okay, even if I feel like, okay, we can move our relationship for it as long as we're doing therapy or as long as doing this it still doesn't mean that like we get to stop and redo everything yeah i think that's a key thing it's it's i don't know humans are weird right it's like what is the past what is the present and one thing that's helped me

is like i hate to say this and i don't mean this like negatively but like i like i like sometimes think the past is dead it sounds like a really weird thing for her story and crying to say but like interpersonally i'm like it can't hurt you anymore it's over it's definitely it's definitely And that doesn't mean to discredit like PTSD and whatnot. It just means that experience happened and you survived it. And now we're on to the next. And we don't have to be defined by something that's already wiped off on the timeline. Now that being said, it's like I can remember.

That doesn't mean that I'm giving you forgiveness. Right. In totality. I think sometimes you can be like as a person, I forgive you and I'm moving on. But it's all about boundaries. I think for me. And I think selfishly, I think that's why I'm drawn to like family stories and family dynamics and the way that families can be crumbled from the inside out and then like redefined later.

And I'm just very intrigued by that because I think so much of life is just not inherently neat. It's just so messy, so messy. And oftentimes as children, you just inherit things. Whether you like it or not, you have no say. And I'm like, correct. So, yeah. Yeah. It's wild.

On that note. We have books. On that note, we have books. Yes, for all our viewers. I'm like, I think this will, it's a good way to see. It's like why we recommend the books we recommend. Yes. Yes.

My mind is a very dark place. Yeah. Same. I don't think we take it out on people, though, for the most part. No. No, no. I'm not. I'm a writer.

Yes, exactly. Well, do you have, that was, I think that was my last one. Do you have another one you're looking forward to reading? I do. this one is on my list. I have not read it yet. I don't know if you have read it, but people keep sending this to me and they're like, Kayla, I know you love vampires. I know you love like, you know, black and indigenous. So have you read the Buffalo Hunter Hunter? Yes. Okay. Well, that's on my list and that's like high up there. And I'm like,

mainly because I'm working on the vampire book, but I'm also like this is going to, I know it's going to wreck me and I'm just like, I need it. I need it. Yeah. So I'm, I'm not. Yeah. His like log line. It's by Stephen Graham Jones, his log line for it or like one of the poll quotes that I would say is like, you know, how sometimes there is a sentence that is the thesis of the book is, um, they like he quotes, they say the only good Indian is a dead one. And I can't die. So what are they going to do with me? And you're like, whoa. It's such a perfect way to abstract the vampire to tell that story. And I feel like it's getting at everything we've talked about for like an hour of like,

let's take a very important aspect of American history and indigenous history and let's give them the idea of like not being like other than even more, but a supernatural twist. And what do you do with this idea of revenge and being hunted and like reversing the hunted to the hunter and what does that do for the history? And I'm like, yeah, this needs to be. on every single college syllabus like i need this i need this yeah it's really really good i don't like i'm not someone who like needs to read a book in the same season uh-huh no judgment if you are but that one like it takes place over like a lot a lot of it is in the winter and i was actually listening to it when it was like when we had like a foot of snow oh i'm actually that's amazing

yes i was like this feels like an immersive read right now basically Yes. I have to show you, though, I got the Ardmark. Anyone who wants a book box that's a little different than Book of the Month, I highly recommend Ardmark. Okay. But they did a special edition for this one. And look at the foiling there. Is that still available?

It might be on your site. I'm going to have to track this down because that is gorgeous. Yeah, it's beautiful. Let a knockout. I was so caught because I listened to it. And then I joined ArtVark and it was like they had like older copies of it. So they might they might still have it. I might have to call in some favors.

Yes. This must be my trophy copy of this one for sure. You know what? Kate, I feel like since I'm about to be done with, um, was it Blood Rising? I feel like it's a good like companion piece. And so I think I might read this immediately after I finish. Um, just so I can get this, I don't know, this idea. of like vampirism and like re-terming history and just I need it I need it yeah I think you'll

love it amazing I think you'll love it for sure um anything else anything else I mean we talked about all kinds of stuff we sure did we sure did it was the remix I didn't know I need it yes well we'll have to do another one maybe for winter I don't know we'll come up with we'll come up with something I don't need a reason to this is not on oh my goodness that's been so fun Thank you.