Bookwild - Infiltrating a Wealthy Family for a Missing Friend: Yasmin Angoe's Behind These Four Walls

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

This week, Yasmin Angoe is back for the fifth year in a row to talk about here new mystery-thriller Behind These Four Walls! We dive into her inspiration for the story, how she created the wealthy, villainous Corrigan family, and Isla's private investigator adjacent job.Behind These Four Walls SynopsisIsla Thorne had a rough start in life. Orphaned young, she spent her formative years in a group home where she met her best friend, Eden Galloway. At sixteen, they decide to run away to LA…but Eden never makes it.It’s been ten years since Eden vanished. And Isla’s determined to find her.She begins at the last place Eden visited: the Corrigan mansion in Virginia. Eden claimed to have unfinished business there. Posing as an aspiring journalist, Isla insinuates herself into the wealthy family’s home and begins searching for the truth.The more she digs, the more Isla discovers Eden isn’t who she thought she was. Was she even a victim, or did Eden plan this all along? Desperate for answers and to keep her identity hidden, Isla finds an ally in one of the Corrigan sons. But as she wades deeper into this power-hungry family’s secrets and lies, she finds herself in the crosshairs of a bloodline that’s more lethal than loyal. Check Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mba 

This week I got to talk with Yasmin Ongo for the fifth year in a row. If you've been listening for a while, she has been on the podcast so many times. And I just love having repeat guests where we can kind of see like the progression of where their writing goes. So she wrote a domestic suspense mystery thriller called Behind These Four Walls. And if you love the eat the rich vibe in your thrillers, you are going to love this. This is what it's about. Ila Thorne had a rough start in life. Orphaned young, she spent her formative years in a group home

where she met her best friend Eden Galloway. At 16, they decided to run away to L.A., but Eden never makes it. It's been 10 years since Eden vanished, and Ila's determined to find her. She begins at the last place Eden visited the Corrigan Mansion in Virginia. Eden claimed to have unfinished business there. Posing as an aspiring journalist, Ila insinuates herself into the wealthy family's home and begins searching for the truth. The more she digs, the more Ila discovers Eden isn't who she thought she was. Was she even a victim, or did Eden plan this all along? Desperate for answers and to keep her identity hidden, Ila finds an ally in one of the Corrigan sons. But as she wades deeper into this power-hungry family's secrets and lies, she finds herself in the crosshairs of a bloodline

that's more lethal than loyal. So I became a Yasmin fan with her Nina Knight's. series, which is like a spy thriller series. And this one kind of has like some PI elements that were really reminding me about what I loved about Nina Knight. So if you're a fan of Nina Knight, this one, it's not the same. It's not a spy thriller, but you'll kind of feel some of the echoes of that. And also, if you are just in the mood for a somewhat popcorn domestic thriller, looking for a missing friend, infiltrating a wealthy family vibes, you are also going to love this one. That being said, let's hear from Yasmin. So this one is behind these four walls. And I loved how it was kind of like a little bit, a dive into kind of a PI type person.

I like always love stories like that. And of course, I love stories where people figure out what bad rich people are doing. So I had a lot of fun reading it. Was there, Was there something that hit you that made you want to write this story? Was there something that hit me? I don't know if there was, it's always like a whole bunch of different things. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I wanted to write, I really wanted to write like a fun kind of story about a person like infiltrating this place that, you know, normally we wouldn't be able to. and how does she like navigate in that realm of you know and especially if it's something

because something happened to someone that she really really cared about. I also wanted to write about the town Charlottesville because it's always been in my head because that's where my sister lives and she lived on like the mountain that they live on. And when I was when I went to visit her for the first time, and driving up that mountain, and it's the same mountain that Monticello is on. So driving up, it was terrifying. And I was like, I didn't know before that I had fear of heights, but I haven't now, or just fear of dying by, like, falling off the cliff because it's so small and narrow.

And she would always tease me because I'm like, I'm terrified of this trek up and down. I don't know how y'all do it in the winter. Like, do you just stay up there? You know, because it's just crazy. And so I knew I wanted to write a story where the character would have like that same fear that I had when I was driving up, you know, and so I put that in the book. And then also I thought it would be really cool for this family, the super super mega rich family to live, you know, on this mountain so that they can have the space to do all the things that, you know, they need to do. And so yeah, so all of those. So it's just a whole bunch of different things that.

that come together for me and I'm and kind of coales before I know that this is the kind of story that I want to write. So there's never one big, huge moment, you know, that I'm like, this is the thing that I need to write about. Except for this next one. Next one, I'm like, this is the thing that I need to write about. And so now I'm, I'm writing about that one. So when you ask me this question again next time, I could just remind me that I said, this is the thing that I need to write. I do love how like, with your previous one, I can't not, Why can't I think of the title? Not what she seems.

Okay, it was not what she sees. I was right. I was doubting myself. But that when you had kind of a similar, like the setting was kind of what you wanted to create first. So it sounds like the setting can really like give you inspiration. Yeah, yeah. I really love a setting. And you're right.

A setting can really make me feel like, yeah, this is the kind. And I think that's the same with the next one that's coming. And even with the Nina Knights, like the setting. I mean, I already knew the story, but I was like, but I need a really good place. Oh, it's going to be in Miami because, you know, I happen to go to Miami. And I was like, yeah, this would be a place where someone, you know, from a very tropical place would come. If they have to come to America, they would come in and be here because it's so like, you know, it's just a place of all sorts of different cultures.

And so, yeah, and I always try to make setting very much a character in my, in my books, because setting is a very, very much a character to me. life wherever I am. I just really like to be wherever I am. And if I don't like where I am, then it really like weighs on me. Yeah. That makes sense then that it kind of like fits into your writing that way. So it also, I kind of mentioned like the main character, Ila, is trying to infiltrate this like mega wealthy, mega powerful family. In the very like, I haven't written my review, I need to. But I was thinking about there are succession vibes going on. Like it's not, it's not that the focus is the work they're doing, but the family reminded me of those vibes.

So is there something where you were like, I want to write about wealth, wealth, wealth, and privilege corruption? Yes, I wanted to write about that. And then I wanted to write about that. And then I wanted to write about like what a regular person can do when presented with that wealth and power and corruption and their ideals. I really wanted to write about perception, which is what I always try to write about those things where you perceive someone one way, but they end up being like something else. And and so Ila, even though she, her mission that she went on, you know, to see what happened to her best friend, it's a very, you know, commendable thing. Like, you know, you can tell she's a very loyal person to have remembered this for 10 years.

And also want to like really get this family that she believes, you know, is the cause of Eden's disappearance. And so but she goes in there as we all do with like, oh yeah, rich people, they're so rich. They never have problems, you know, like they must, you know, you see them. Even celebrities, you're like, oh my gosh, they're always beautiful. like everything just everything just goes their way and do they really do they even poop that's what you want to know right you want to know those things right so so like so she goes there with those perceptions like what kind of problems would they ever want that's why like they can just like kill off anybody because like you know if i don't like you boom you're gone and all this other stuff so so she goes in there and and so she gets an eye a real like rude awakening like she gets an eye opening experience that, you know, even the perceptions that she had were not quite right, you know, and their perceptions also of, you know, my power means I'm better than you or my wealth means I'm better than you. Everything kind of just blows up when you're in their space and you see,

like, you know, hey, they may have actual regular problems like, like we all do, you know. And so that's what I really, I wanted to definitely. like hone in on that and definitely not the business because that was a that was a that was something that my editor and I um like talked about um because I you know I have never actually seen succession I've only heard it and I heard everyone say it's so great it's so great and then I was like how many seasons and they're like seven or eight or something and I said oh that's too many I don't want to start and read all do all that so I know I know not much I don't know much about it except for it's a super wealthy family um

So we did want to make sure that it wasn't like along the business. And I don't know business like that. So I was like, I don't even want to get into that. That sounds boring. So I want to do more than the business. It's really about the family. It's really about this one person. And it's really about like really finding out the business is on the outside.

But like what's on the inside that is really like, you know, making this family the way they are. Yes. We do find out. But I am not going to talk about it. He's not going to talk about it, folks. You got to read it yourself. Yes, exactly. It is, you mentioned her, like, loyalty to her friend, which is, like, that's, like, another fun.

I don't think trope is, like, a bad, a bad thing. There are plenty of tropes I enjoy. But I, like, I love the trope of, like, a friend, like, trying to find another friend. I mean, even if it's, like, parent, sister or whatever, but, like, when it is someone who's, like, I am going to go into this machine essentially and figure out what happened. So was that kind of like the leading like plot thought when you started writing it that it was going to be about that or did that kind of come up later? I can't remember if you plot.

I'm not a heavy plotter, but I'm a thinker. So I'm a very heavy thinker. So I plot in my head. And I did go in thinking and I said I didn't want her to be, you know, a sister, you know, a blood relative. So I wanted to, you know, build, you know, a sisterhood, a relationship, a very close relationship built out of just two people really finding a connection with each other and needing that. I really value those kinds of relationships. You know, family is one thing, but the people, the friends that you find, even, you know, the spouse that you end up with,

those are people that you find that you connect with and bring into your life. And so, you know, I always, you know, that's a, yeah, like, that's a, that's a, that's a, if we're going to talk tropes, that's a huge trope of mind. Yeah. You always have, like, that family element, um, and explore those family elements. And because that's something I really truly value is somebody who's by your side. And so when that person is no longer by your side for some various reason, you know, you know, I don't know if I'll go and infiltrate like,

the super rich family because I'm a scarcity cat, but I definitely would, I think that I would try to find as much as I can to see what happened to that person. And that would be something that's always on my mind and something that I feel like compelled to do. And so that's what I wanted, Ila to feel like really compelled to do. Plus, you know, she's dealing with like her own guilt. When you read the story, you know, from her father and stuff like that. And so, and also from from the prologue, the thing that kind of sets everything up, right? So she wants to make things right. And now that she's able to,

because not everybody's able to do something at the moment that it's done, right? Because she didn't have the resources. And she was like a runaway and stuff like that. But now, you know, 10 years later, she has the capability. She's built herself up in a way that she can be more formidable. And so this is what she's gonna do.

and I appreciate her for doing that. Yeah. I like how you kind of explain that to where my brain is so dead. I did not sleep well last night. You mentioned how like she didn't have the means to do it at different points in her life. And so I feel like there are actually, again, I won't spoil it, but there are multiple instances in here where when, and it's not like she's like, impoverished but when when lower classes are desperate there's a there's like a very easy ability for them to be like manipulated by people with power yeah yeah absolutely yeah it was interesting seeing

that pop up too because you're like oh yeah because it happens in all ways shapes and forms like it it just does like when you don't have the same amount of resources sometimes you have to make tough decisions. So what, I love, I love her friends so much that she, that I was working with. They're, they're both just so fun in their own ways. So how did you come up with their characters? Were they really fun to kind of like build around her? Yeah, Ray and Nat, I really try to build like friends or people around the, um, the main

character that won't just serve the character but like really help to complete the whole story. And by completing the whole story, that means that they have to come with their own set of skills, right? And you mentioned that, you know, Ila, she's not impoverished, but she's not like wealthy at all, right? She's, you know, just a basic, you know, work paycheck, you know, to paycheck or whatever working person. And so, you know, she meets these other two who, for whatever reason, they want to get into something like, you know, one person is he's got the money and he's like, you know, a cyber tech kind of person. And he's like, you know, hey, I got the money and I'm bored. So let me do this. So it's like a fun, you know, thing for him. And he's hilarious.

And then they have, you know, the very surreal like Nat, who is actually an actress and she's, you know, improvisation and all this other stuff. And she's just really like cool and all that. And then they've got, you know, Ila, who's very, you know, a, you know, typical. And she's just by the book. And she's the one that comes up with the plans. And they all have their roles, right? And so what they do is, you know, they go and they work for many different companies or whatever to go and, like, get information that, like, the company wants to get on maybe their competition or whatever. So they go in and get like those those secrets or whatever the case is evidence and gives it to the company.

And so those are the things that she that helps her like when she goes to the Poregans because she has built, she has, you know, found experience. She has really broadened her toolbox and they do all these different things. And so, yeah, like they're fun because I can just imagine on any other job, you know, how they like come, you know, come together. I could practically see them in, you know, at the, in the little room over his overraise coffee shop, like, just, like, hashed out what this plan is going to be and, like, how they're going to infiltrate and how that is going to come in as, like, you know, the honeypot, you know, and snag the person and, you know, all of that kind of mission impossible type stuff, like, for, like, regular, shmegler people. And so they have a good time together. And so Ila is able to find another, you know, two set of friends. They're not going to be at the level Eden is or Eden was or whatever, but like, you know, people that she needs. And we all need those kinds of people. So yeah, I had fun with them. Yeah. I loved to them. I loved that room over the coffee shop. It felt, it felt similar to how I tried to make everything cozy, but in a dark way. It might have been well lit.

And my mind was just making it into that, but I was like, this sounds cozy. No, it wasn't well lit. It's just this place. with all these screens and and I got that from like one of my cousins like his went into his his it was in in his living room and he just had this setup with all these screens and computer and all this stuff I was like this is so cool can I take a picture of it and he was like okay and so I took a picture of it and that was the visual of that of that room that raised raised little where he makes all the stuff happen. Yeah, I loved it. I love a little rag tag kind of underdog team coming together, too. That's always a good vibe. Exactly. I also always wonder, like, when you were crafting the corgans,

so like when you're crafting a family, and I'm assuming like, and I could be wrong, I'm assuming it's kind of like, okay, so I know she's going to be up against this family. And then you have to like decide, like how many family members there are. Like, what was it like building the Corrigans out. Oh, yeah. Like I really, I had to think about like how many wives he might have had and like who like why he would have such and such. Yeah, kids because that has that, you know, the whole the air who's going to take over. That's always a big huge thing regardless of if it's going to be a story about business or not. It always, when you're dealing with wealthy families, it always has to do with, you know, who's going to take over. So who is the anointed one and who are the ones that

might try to go for that. And, you know, how does that all play into, you know, and how do they treat their, you know, their staff, you know, like all of those different factors are, you know, have to think about, have to be in this, in this family. So, yeah, I had to think about the family. And then I had to think about the people they staff because those are the people that Ila would be interacting with the most as she's trying to work her way up in and through the family and stuff like that.

And I had to really be honest, like, you know, well, would everybody, you know, all I have are people that I see on TV, right? Or read about, like, because I don't know anybody at that level. And so, like, I just take from, you know, what I see. And then I just kind of go deeper and imagine, like, well, I'm pretty sure they're not all like how they present themselves on TV. I'm sure they must poop. So how, you know, what do they do?

I know I keep talking about it. I don't know why, but that's just something that I think about these things about rich people. Like if that happens, if they do all the regular things that everybody else does. Yeah. Another thing, I think I thought at first you were kind of coming from a perspective. Something interesting to me is like the whole idea of like the sins of the father or not the sins of the son. That's like one of those other things where like I try to also have some compassion for some people lately where I'm like, especially if they're still teenagers. like they don't know who they actually are and they could feel like oh i'm stuck in this house but like i'm not

going to live my life the way these people do when i get out of here right right well exactly and we kind of get that from a couple of members um in the family but of course initially and those are the things when when i was talking about like perceptions initially i like think that right and even the first person that ila interacts with the way that she gets into the family right she finds out off the bat that that person isn't how she assumed the person would be just because the person had like a really nice car and looked very rich you know what I'm saying and but she realized that that person this person is really gullible oh my gosh and that already makes her start to feel bad because she feels like I'm praying on this very innocent person but I still have to do what I need

to do so those are those are the complexities that she comes in against. She carries that guilt like throughout like, you know, the one person who's being like really for real with her. She can't be for real with that person. And she thinks about what those ramifications will be when that person finds out, you know, who she really is and why she really came. And when that person thinks about how they met, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's tricky. Because in some ways you could argue like that person's not even being harmed very much but it's it's still a betrayal like that part is there to their relationship um the other thing I was thinking about is you do alternate timelines throughout it is that do you write it as it appears in the book or did you like

write the backstory and then write the front story right right I got to um for this one I only wrote a little bit of notes about like the backstory because I knew that I wasn't going to have as much backstory as I did like, you know, like maybe for my first book where that was dual timelines. So I wrote the whole story because first, the present day, then I started thinking about the areas in which I would need the backstory. And so that's then I wrote, you know, the backstory of, you know, in those areas, like the. things that I knew that I really wanted to touch upon and that I wanted the reader to get that full story in real time. Then, yeah, then that's what I did. Yeah. With Ila, you've kind of talked about it. She's, she's complex and like she has layers and some of it is because of the situation she's in where she's feeling a lot of things. Like it's like, I think this could be the good

thing to do, but I might have to do some bad things to do that. How did you kind of like, balance that like inner part of her like existence through the story. Yeah. Well, so my, my, my editor always tells me you have to make sure that the reader like, you know, doesn't hate the person. The main character. So that's what she always tells me. And so that's what I tried to like, you know, incorporate.

And I don't want anyone to hate them. I don't necessarily care if the reader likes them. But I would hope that the reader understands, you know, why they have to do certain things. some things that even Ila did did you know I would be like oh I don't know that you had to really do it that way you know what I mean but but she that's what she thought um but like I yeah like it was I just really had to what was her goal and and a lot of times when I would even because me personally I think I would probably back off on some things but Ila spent all this time and I'm thinking about somebody who has spent like 10 years just never knowing

And I understand that because, you know, I have family members who sometimes, like, you never know why something happens. And things have happened to me where I just don't have the answer that I never. And it just eats at you. You always move on, but you can't help thinking sometimes, like, why did that thing happen that way? And you just never find out. And so she has this opportunity to find out. And she just goes, you know, balls in the wall. Let me go find out.

I don't care what happens to me. but I have to do something to break this cycle because now she's thinking that this family has this cycle of hurting others and she really wants to break that cycle. She knows that if I go to the cops or whatever, that's not going to work because this is a rich family and they're going to use their money. So she knows that, you know, everything is against her. The only thing she can do is maybe sacrifice herself. And I think that like the readers can understand that knowing that there's been many cases

that we've seen and read where, you know, people who are well off, I mean, we have it at our very highest level, do we not? People who are well off and powerful get away with everything, even though we all know that, you know, it's wrong and it's illegal and whatever. And so, like, that's another thing where, you know, that inspired me. I just really wanted to write about, like, someone who just really goes in and is like, I'm going to do this because I know that any other way. They're all going to like fall in on each other and protect each other,

even though they can't stand each other. And I'm the person that like breaks that and shatters it. And so she does. Yes, I did. I loved that part of the story because we do. I think even more than normal, we really know about some atrocious things that are happening that a lot of people are just have zero reaction to.

And that is it can like aid to the helpless or hopeless, feeling where you're like how do we ever how do we ever like hold wealthy people accountable for things um and so it was like refreshing though i won't give way anything but like it is kind of refreshing reading a person who's like i'm still going to figure out how i can't yeah yeah i really enjoyed that part a lot um uh so also there's like it kind of has some like psychological thriller elements in investigation, but it's also like very suspenseful. Was that, is that just kind of like the story you wrote and that's how we would describe it? Or did you kind of go in wanting to bring all of those elements together?

That's a good question. I definitely wanted to be, I wanted it to be suspenseful more than anything. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted it to be suspenseful more than anything. I wanted the psychological. There were some areas in which I really wanted the psychological aspect. And those would be probably like when the timelines shifted and we went like back in time and stuff like that because that helps build the tension and suspense to me in the in the present day. So I, but mostly, mostly I wanted it to be just like I just need it to be suspenseful.

I mean, I want people to be like. like on the edge of their seats wondering what the head. I want them to like, you know, talking to the to the book. And I want them to really, really hate Brooke, the stepmom and, you know, all these people. I don't want them necessarily to like anyone until, you know, they get, you know, they go through Isla into meeting all these different people. And they say, well, hey, you know, this person wasn't really what. And this thing, you know, happened. And at the end of the book, then I, you know, I want people to be like, oh, wow, like the things that happen.

Like, this is, all I could think of was Lemony Snicket's series of unfortunate events. Oh, yes. Because, yes, because that's, you know, that was the whole purpose of like the whole, like, this unfortunate event. Like, these things happen. And, like, what do I do with it now? You know, now that I know that these things happened and it didn't have to happen. and who you know how do they how do they move on from that because sometimes those are even the worst when you know it didn't have to happen that way yes yes i'm all around in all kinds of situations

things did not have to happen that way yes um with the so there are some fun reveals and twists and without saying what they were did you surprise yourself with any of them like were you like writing and all of a sudden you're like oh oh wait yeah Did I survive? Let me think. Were there any or did I really kind of just? I feel like because I'm... That's a good question.

When I say I'm writing, I use that loosely because I also realized like I need to get some... I don't even have to get way into it. But when I write, I always think it's so magical when some people are like, I just don't want, I don't know any plot. I just start with a scene and I love surprising myself. And I'm like, I don't know if it would work for me. that's funny um no i think what surprises me is the end result of it so i already kind of have an idea of this is the thing that i that i want to happen um this is how such and such is going to go down um but i don't know how it's going to feel or if it's going to really work until it's like

actually written so when i write it then i'm getting like the vibe and i know where i'm going to go all in here or I'm going to pull back here or now I'm going to add this thing. So like when it comes to those like twisted reveals and things like that, I say, oh, I'm going to do this thing. I don't know if it's going to play out well. And then when I try it and it works well, then I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, that's, that's pretty good. Yeah, that they're going to really think that's wild. They're going to really catch their breath, hold their breath about that. Like, for example, you know, if we talk about like the closet scene, I don't. I don't know if you remember the closet scene.

So, yeah, like that one, you know. So like those things, yeah. Yeah, it is fun. Just kind of discovering it. Yeah, just discovering it that way. My brain is so dead today. I literally had a follow-up question and it's just gone. It's kind of our fault.

the cutie behind you who looks so innocent. Yeah, she's like, I'm just sitting on the couch, mom. Don't talk bad about me. Okay, so it was based off something you said. Oh my goodness. My brain is just failing me. Maybe it'll come back later. Yeah, maybe that's what we will. um,

what do you kind of talked about already? Oh, were there ever like alternate endings? Like, were you ever torn on the ending or did you kind of mostly get there? And it was like, oh, it feels a little different than I thought maybe, but like this is the ending. Yeah, no, there was like, you know, the other ending. And if you, since you've read it, I won't say, you know, of course we won't say what the ending is. But I absolutely thought about having. it end a different way, the other way that it can be of what you, of what you read. But when I thought

about that ending and I was like, oh, I could do that, but man, that's going to take more words. And I was already over word count. So I even asked, I was like, what do y'all think if I did this way? And they were like, yeah, no, it's fine. That's going to be more words because then you got to, you know, explain some things and all this other build that up. And I was like, yeah, who has time to? for that. We don't. And we don't have word count page. We don't have space for it anywhere either. So yeah. And I thought because that you would have to have, I would definitely have to have a whole lot of like fallout of, you know, how people feel about like that and how that all kind of panned out, how it worked out to be that, you know. So, but yeah, I definitely thought about, you know, a total, the total opposite. ending. It's always fascinating.

I think that would have been interesting though. Yeah, because when you were talking about how like maybe the reveal isn't surprise you, but when you would get to them, you'd be like, oh, maybe that didn't work the way I thought it would or whatever. I edit a lot. I just edit a lot of different types of videos and have that same experience where sometimes you're like, I'm going to do this and it's going to be so cool. And then you do it and you're like, this does not look cool.

That's what happens. Yeah. you either need to like add some some layers or some interesting things or it was just an idea that wasn't going to actually work so i can imagine that happening like all throughout a book especially since you go through so many like rounds of revision and stuff but it sounds like you have a good like relationship with your editor it seems like yeah yeah like i really trust her and and trust her her points because you know they

she definitely sees things that I didn't see or she'll find you know the plots the plot holes that you know I kind of glossed over because I'm writing just what it's in my head I'm not thinking about like really intricate so she thinks about like the really intricate details of how to fill those holes up

a little bit and so I really appreciate her for doing that because it's hard for you know when you've been close to it especially with the kind of turnaround that we have, there wouldn't be enough time for me to have given it enough space for me to go back

and find those things myself. So it's good to have someone who will go in and find, you know, those areas that I missed and highlight. And so I just have to go and buffer that. And to have someone go in and be like, okay, yes, you wrote all these thousands of words on this thing and we don't need it.

We need to cut it down because I overwrite. But I overwrite for that reason, because I don't want, I really hate to have to, like, write more to get to the word count that they want. I'd rather give you more and we cut than for you to say, no, you need to write more of this and write more of this because I don't want to. Once the thing is done, I just want to start revising. I don't want to create more stuff. Right. That makes me think of how Stephen King, like in on writing, he talks about like the first time you just tell yourself the story. like what what happened and then in revision you remove all the parts of the art the story so it kind of

sounds like a little bit like that like you're like that's absolutely and then they can kind of be like you don't need all of this you're like okay that's fine cut that thing out I'll have to make anything new I'm good with it exactly that makes a lot of sense I get that um well I really enjoyed it if anyone needs just like a fun mystery it's it's like yeah mystery three three three three three trying to figure out where your friend is, but also kind of like, kind of eat the rich or let's talk about the rich. You'll love this one. It's very fun.

So yeah. But I do always ask as well if you have read anything recently that you loved or if there's just like something you always recommend to people. What have I read recently that I loved? Oh, gosh. I mean, like, I'm always, like, reading, like, a whole bunch of stuff. And the last thing I read, gosh, what was it that I, I can't even... You read multiple at a time. Yeah, I do read multiple at a time. I'm looking at my phone because I usually, like, have them up here where I'm looking at it.

But, like, no, it's, my phone is failing me right now. But, yeah, but, like, my always reads, obviously would be, like, you know, like Walter Mosley, Kelly Garrett. I love S.A. Cosby. Wanda Morris. I even will read, like, romance and stuff like that just to get, like, a different vibe. So there's Senepea Williams that I read.

Yeah. I enjoy old school Terry McMillan. You know, I enjoy that. And then, like, right now, I, am reading the Destroyer of Worlds by Matt Ruff. He's the guy who wrote the Lovecraft Country. Oh, nice. Yeah, and then remember it was a book, and then it was the TV show on HBO.

Yeah, and so I didn't know that he had a sequel to Lovecraft Country. I didn't either. Exactly. So I went in to me. I said, what? There's a sequel. So I went and got that. right away. And so that's- Oh my gosh.

2023? Like I was on Bookstagram at that point. How did I not know? How did we miss this sequel? So the Destroyer of Worlds, that is what I am currently reading right now because I'm like, how the hell did I not? For these past three, two, three years know that this was here.

Well, I guess maybe we know why. Yeah, that's true. But this is going to be what I'm going to be reading next, possibly. So, oh, I love it. I listened to the first one. I really did like the narration a lot. Same. Same to listen to this one too.

Yeah. I love it. Well, that's a great recommendation. You have plenty of recommendations. I also know who Walter Mosley was. I knew the other people, but I need to add him to my own. He is a fantastic read. There's this one book that he, he's the one that on, I think it's on Apple, but like the life of Ptolemy,

gray. I don't know if you saw or I'm saying the name wrong, but like that was on, I think that was on Apple or something like that. He wrote that, it was the screenplay for that. But like one of his books, I mean, he's written a whole lot of books that I love, but one of my favorites from him is the, I think it's called the fortunate son. It's either the unfortunate son or the fortunate son. And that was such a good read. And I read that a couple years ago. And sometimes, like I'll just, you know, people ask me what book like changed your life? And I'm like, well, there's no book that actually changed my life. But books that like I think about after, you know, even after they're long done, like that's one of them because it was also a book of like,

you know, of unfortunate events that didn't have to happen. And then those are the ones that you just kind of feel a little sad, but it was just so like good. So that was a good one. Yeah. Walter Rosley is like, he's really good. nice all of them yeah yeah yeah you're like Tyler I can't work today I have books to read exactly I am leaving you on your own awesome those are some great ones and it's out now as well no it just is out now not just as when people hear it so you can go listen to it you can read it you can DM us tell us what you thought as long as it's nice Nice.

Caviote. Yes. But yeah, I'm excited for everyone else to get to read it. And thank you for coming on and talking about it. Oh, thank you for having me. I enjoyed it.