Bookwild - Jaime Lynn Hendricks' Their Double Lives: What Would You Do to Save Your Dog?

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

This week, the iconic Jaime Lynn Hendricks is back for the fifth time to chat about her newest page turner Their Double Lives! Gare and I ask all our burning questions, and we discuss Gare's dog Murphy's debut in a book!Their Double Lives SynopsisA down-on-her-luck waitress at a posh New Jersey country club, Kim Valva couldn’t be living a more different life from the carefree socialites she serves. Her live-in boyfriend recently cheated on her, her social life is in shambles, and her dog needs a life-saving surgery that she can’t afford. Then her luck seems to change when a mysterious figure identifying themself only as The Stranger contacts her with an offer she can’t refuse: Put a pill in the new member’s drink and, when he dies, she’ll have enough money to fix her dog and her life.Her target turns out to be Tony Fiore—Kim’s bad boy ex-boyfriend from high school. Fifteen years have passed, and he now goes by Anthony Fuller. He’s cleaned up, made tens of millions, and his gorgeous fiancée, twenty-two-year-old PJ Walsh, is on his arm.PJ had her own agenda from the second she met Anthony. Find him, trick him, marry him, kill him. It was supposed to be easy, but she finds that while living her double life, the lines blur between who she is and who she’s pretending to be.Stunned to see Tony again, Kim can’t bring herself to go through with spiking his drink. Instead, it is PJ who dies horrifically at the table just as dinner ends. Was someone else at the club—member or worker—tasked with poisoning PJ just as she had been instructed to do to Tony? Who would want both of them dead? With no one to trust and The Stranger to answer to, Kim must peel back the layers of deceit to reveal a deeply buried truth, more shocking than she could ever imagine… Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Well, we have a very special episode this week because this is your five-peat. Yes, this is Jamie Lindelich's five-peat appearance on the podcast for their double lives. And so Gare is here with me too. And we are just going to have so much on talking about this. Oh, my God. Basically, welcome back, Jamie. Thank you. I think it was one of your first guests.

I think it was in like the first five that you had. You were. I think we're four. So yeah, so thank you for having me back every year. This is wonderful. You know, you guys are my favorite. So it's all. It's fun.

Yeah. So much fun. And this one, it has this one to start off. Because I've technically, I've been recording intros ahead of time. So people like know the synopsis at this point. But this one is super cool because Kim Valva is someone who, I follow on Instagram and talk with.

And she is the main character name. Yes. But also, Gare's little baby boy, Murphy, makes his own little appearance. Oh, he's a star. The literary debut. He just bounces on pages. He is, ugh. You, like, encapsulated him so well in this book.

Like, I was like, oh, my God. Does she have, like, a hidden camera? in here because like he would do something in the like murphy would do something in the book and then i'd like look at him and be like yeah you do that you little shit i know you said something you know destroying the porcupine but i actually did that because my old dog had the porcupine and it was like her favorite thing we actually you know when we had to put her down um we sent her to get cremated with the porcupine like so she was holding it so that way i didn't want her to be without it so we got it all sent back to us to us.

nice porcupine is with her forever. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so sweet. But she sent me, she sent me Amber, so that's good. You know. Yes. There are incredible creatures.

Yes. Our porcupine did not last. Oh, she destroys everything. She had a porcupine, too, but she's still a puppy. I have to get. She's only like 19 months old, so she'll grow out of it eventually. I have to get like the super. The arms and the legs off.

there's like stuffing everywhere all over the house. Yeah, Murphy does like the face. Like he just like attacks the face in it. He doesn't get stuffed animals anymore. I'm just like, I'm not wasting my money. I have to get him like the super durable toys that like 120 pound dogs chew on. Yeah. And like you're a marshmallow with teeth.

Yes. Aw, he's a sweet baby. He is a sweet boy. He is a sweet boy. He gave me a little run for my money today, but he's a sweet boy. We got to be challenged, you know. Yeah. It'll be easy.

And they say that like dog moms and dog dads are not are not like real, real parents. But the hell we're not. I think it would have been easier for me to actually have a child at this point than it would have been for Murphy. I think a child would have been easy. No, he's our Murphy alone. He's challenging. I regret nothing, but I think it would have been easier to have a chance at this. Yeah, he's a little shit.

I think we love our doggies. And I think that's what we're meant to do. Yeah. Yes. It is. Yeah. Yeah. They make life 100% better.

Yeah. Well, did you, so did your love for your dogs? Was that partially what motivated this story where your character is willing to do some questionable things because she wants to save her dog? Yeah, because I was writing this when Cosmo, my last dog was toward the end. and, you know, it was just, and we knew. And she had been diagnosed with kidney cancer about six months before she died. They only gave her three. And she lasted six.

So, but we were doing everything to try to make her last. And then, you know, I just got into it. And I was just like, like, who do I have to kill to save the dog? And it was like, hmm, who do I have to kill to save the dog? And, you know, there in lies, you know, just some random thought on like a random Tuesday. And, you know, a book is born. I love that. And then when she died, I told Gare, I was, I was changing, I was changing, I was changing, I was changing it into Murphy.

And it was going to be, well, no, actually, it was always Murphy because I didn't want to do Cosmo because I knew she was going to be dead when it came out. And then that would just, oh, yeah. You know, and I, I put her, she's in the dedication, you know, she was in much, she's been in all my dedication, but she was in this one saying, like, you know, I wrote every book with her, which is probably why I haven't, you know, done anything. Because, like, you know, she was always by my feet when,

when I was writing and I miss her. So I love Amber and Beth. And she's, she might even be better, but, you know, it doesn't mean I don't. miss the other dog, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you might have to take this one because I'm crying. You know, and it's, you don't lose a pet in, it's not, it's not linear. Like, you know, it's not like you cry the most the first day and then it goes down and down until it goes away. Like, that's not what happens. Like, you know, up down, up, down, down, and then nothing for a while. And then

just out of nowhere, you'll just start crying in the middle of the night and, you know, we never. We do. We do. We do. I love that. I love that saying that they say that like a dog is like a part of your life, but for your dog, you're their whole life. And that's like always something like I think of if like Murphy's being like bad or I'm having like a frustrating day and he's like kind of, you know, I'm just like, oh my God, like I'm all he has. And then like I obviously get like. And then you start and then you're like, I'm an asshole. And then I get like, yeah, then I get emotional and I'm like, what can I buy you? Like what do you one. He's just like, rub my belly and turn on date line. Like, it's the only thing that relaxes

me. So that's what Murphy gets is, yeah, date line and belly rubs. Um, that's awesome. But I love that. Yeah. Come on over. Yeah. Give me like true crime and belly rubs. I'm in. Yeah. Okay. I have two hands. One for you, one for Murphy. You come on over anytime. You're always welcome. You're always welcome up here in the armpit of New York. But I love that like this random thought that popped into your head is what like spun the wheels on this book because you've been for the last five years you've been doing a book a year, correct? Yes.

If not if not less than a year. No, it's been every May. Every May? Yeah, they were all, they all came out in May. But the writing process has been, you don't get a whole year to write. you know what I mean? No, but I usually don't need a whole year to write. I could usually write a book in, you know, three to four months. You know, when I sit down and concentrate and I'm in writing mode, which I haven't done for, you know, months and months because of all the personal stuff I've got

going on. So writing has been a little bit more difficult. But I mean, I'm about, I've got another book that's done that's that's going to go on sub because I am no longer with scarlet um so my book is going to go on sub um right after this one comes out um so soon so like next week and then i'm about 50 000 merge into another one and they're usually around like 80 so um once i once i just get motivated on that i can i can do that so i just have to get my ass like ass in chair that's what they always say. Yes, yes. But I love how you're like, I mean, I barely have it, but I have 50,000 words who are like, nice. Yeah, but they were written like, I haven't touched the book and like, come on. Yeah. It should have been done, edited, gone to my beta readers. Like, it should have been

completely finished. My agent should have it by now, but, you know, that's my fault. But it's okay. I've got a real excuse, you know. Oh, yeah. That's like that's not your fault. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'll like stuff. But just to say that you can you can bang out a book in three or four months is like incredible to me. Because like when I read your books, you're one of those people that like I call them like the like fairy tale thrillers where like somebody drops off little like breadcrumbs along the way. And then those breadcrumbs like erupt in the end of the book. You know what I mean? Like you kind of want to go back.

Yeah. Well, you're kind of like, oh, okay. Like so that thing that's in the back of my mind that I like can't get out of my head, this is important. And then like when I finish one of your books, the first thing I want to do is I want to start it all over again and like pick up more of those breadcrumbs along the way because like, you know, even though this is my. Yeah. Even though it's like my fifth book by you, I'm like she always fricking tricks me. Like usually when you read books by somebody like sometimes they can be like a little formulaic or you're like, you're like, you're like, I'm like, she always fricking tricks me. Like usually when you read books by somebody like sometimes they can be like a little formulaic or you're like, like, oh, I know that they're going to try to pull this, like, around like 30 or 40 or 50% in. Nope. Nope. Not our girl.

Nope. Our number one girl is like, no, I'm going to trick you every single time. Well, I do leave some things, you know, some things kind of have to stay the way that you expect them to or like you'll be thinking something formulating in your head. And sometimes I do leave that there. But, you know, most of the time I like to be like, no, raw. And I just pull out the rug. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. You always trick me. Do you guys yourself with this one at all? I know you don't like to have like a literal plot, like a plot outline going into it. So did you like shock yourself a bunch? Yes, because, well, you guys read it so you know how it ends. That those last two chapters like came out of nowhere when I was, I, I had it a completely different ending.

And then when I gave it to like my, my beta readers or my, they're actually my alpha readers, like my critique partners. I was just like, you know, they were like, well, what about this? What about this? What about this? And I was like, you know what? Because I was just, I was just kind of done with writing this one. It was frustrating me. And I was just like, I don't know.

I like, how do I do it? And then it just came to me. It was like, you know, shower thoughts. It just comes to you're sitting there like, oh, yeah, blah. And I'm like, huh, huh. So like, I was just like, maybe I'll try it this way. And it was with like the letter, which is not giving anything away. So the letter and then the last two chapters is those all just came.

like one day and I just like wrote all of them in one day and I was like okay now I'm finished now it's now it's definitely done and I thought it wrapped everything up really well because it told why how who you know yeah and you know the one last the real you know the last couple of lines the book it really it really you know yeah I don't I can't give anything away yeah I get it yeah that's yeah i always think about it when i'm reading your books how you just like yeah even from the first interview you would say you wanted to surprise yourself as you're writing it so that at these moments i'm always like what happened that made her have this come to mind um the other yeah because that oh sorry well i was just going to say the other cool thing is that your main

character it was kind of like uh contest to name that character. You want to talk about that? Yes. Yeah. Kim Valva, she entered, I was asked by another person if I wanted to donate

to have somebody a character in my book because they knew somebody who worked closely with the Earth Fridays Foundation. So I put it out there saying, you know, if you donate to this, you know, highest bid wins

and you can be a character in the book. And Kim Valva won it. And then the fun part was she lives in Houston. And when I, went to Houston for an interview with Abby Endler, who's crying by the book, at murder by the book in Houston. She lives there. So she was like, I'm taking a half day. And like, we're going to go at lunch. So like I got to meet her. And we just, and you know, it's like when you meet somebody

and then just like I, like when we all meet in person, which we will. Like we're just going to sit down like to each other for a hundred years. And that's what it was like with her. So it was fun. And And then like she came to the, you know, the signing and the whole thing. But it's like now I'm friends with her. So it's like, you know, I just love how this happened with, you know, books to grammars and stuff. It's like, you know, they just read. And then they just become your friend. It's so cool. It's like the greatest community. I love to that like you are writing a book in like three or four months. And are you guys frozen? No. Or am I? I see myself moving. I see you moving now. Okay. Yeah. Okay, because before you guys weren't moving.

And I said, I'm like, can you see me moving? I'm moving. I just always do want to tell you how much I respect your position on Bookstagram because so many authors, like, especially after five books, like, you still to this day are making friends on Bookstagram. you answer DMs, you're always sharing things. And like, you are just as kind and humble and amazing as you were from day one. And like, honestly, you're one of the, you're one of like the people that like make the community what it is. Aw, you're the best. But I feel that way that you guys.

I feel that way, but like, you know, I mean, not everybody's my favorite human ever care. Don't get jealous. I'll take them. That'll be your next book. Books to bring with serial killer. I mean, I think, I mean, honestly, like, I do think

the Bookstagram community is just so, I mean, because everything's like, they volunteer. I mean, yes, they love reading, but like, they volunteer their time to read all these books and then all the, some of the pictures they put up and the, like, the wheels they make and stuff. Like, they're beautiful. And, like, you do the, the, the posters. and, you know, Kate's got the podcast for everybody.

So, like, you know, you guys do this for us. We'll do anything for you guys. I mean, I think we should do anything for you guys. And we're like, what are we without our readers? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's so sweet. But also, like, I wouldn't be as passionate about some of the things that I do on Bookstagram if it wasn't for books like the ones that you've written.

Right. You know, like that creativity. that you spark in me is because of a story that you gave to me that I was able to enjoy that changed like my perspective on things. Right. Well, I can't wait until everybody sees your poster with Murphy.

I know. Like, it was so... It was so... I've seen it, yes. Oh my God. That was... I mean, I like... I like pined myself when I saw it. That was just so funny.

So well-bbed. Cute. I always like... thoughts up with my dog voice. I love to do like the cast posters like kind of like reminiscent of scream where you have like four or five like central characters. It's like when I

was thinking of yours, I always like spend the hardest time on like the back like the backdrop picture. So I wanted something that like you know like really like captures what the book kind of like setting looks like that was the longest thing and then all of a sudden I just like plop little Murphy like right in there like front and center.

I had to. Yeah. He isn't the main character. The whole book happens for him. So, you know, he loves it. He loves that. Well, this is my favorite one of yours so far, without a doubt. Even if, even if Murphy wasn't in it, even if Murphy wasn't in it. No, but it's funny because, like I said, this book frustrated me the most to write.

The other ones I just, I just wrote and like, yeah, everybody gets a little kind of a blockage in the middle or there's a, you know, a muddy middle. And again, with me, like, I never know how my books are going to, like, I know how they're going to end, but I don't really. know how they're going to get there. And that's, and that's, like, that's why I don't like to plot because I don't want to box my characters into like a spot and then be like, that's who they have to be because they grow along the way when I'm writing. So then sometimes they turn into different people. And I don't, and I like that.

I like as they, as they come alive on the page, they're different than who I thought they were in the beginning. Right. But this one, I, I did not know how it was going to end. So it was frustrating the hell out of me. and that's why and that's why like I was telling everybody I'm like I hate this book

I'm like this is gonna be my worst book ever because I'm not in love with it and it's frustrating me and I don't know what to do and then when I said I got the shower call with like the letter and then the last two

point to view chapters it really all came together but I was just like all fine it all came together it's fine but then I think got out there and everybody's been reading it everyone has been saying

it's their favorite so I mean yay that's the thing that's good news it is weird how that happens like sometimes like I think I've heard other writers talk about it where like you've just been in that project for so long and then you're like I don't know and then like those are the do well kind of like you like spend all this time on a reel and post and you're like this is going to pop off and it's like 10 views like the next one you like didn't even think would do well it's like 50,000 views yeah I'm not really I'm not I don't know really

how to make real. So like, I'll video something. And then like, I'll be like, okay, it's a real. But like, I, you know, I have this, this amazing community here called like the St. Pete Girl bosses and they meet twice a week. And there's like, there's like 8,000 members in, like, in the private page. And the meetings have anywhere between like, you know, 20 to 100 people. So they're fun. Everybody just gets together and they start teaching each other stuff. And like, I'm, you know, I'm like one of the writers there. So like a lot of people are like doing writing. So, like, I, you know, I help them with that. And they, my husband's actually on, um, a, a Zoom interview right now because he's been looking

for another job. And he's like, why do you ask your girl boss as if anybody does any of this? And so I got him some headhunters and some people who like do what he does. And like, oh, yeah, have him whole. Um, you know, we use them for, you know, air conditioner repair and, and just all sorts of stuff. And just the whole community gets together. So when I went to one of the meetings, um, there were like five people who were, who were,

like presenting if you will and you could break off and go to you know whichever meeting you wanted and this one girl was teaching people how to do reels and I was like oh that's the one I need like where you write stuff on and like pause it and like I'm like I need to do that so we did it live so like I did a reel and like I put this like a little writing on it and I knew what to do and the whole thing and it was great and I was like this is perfect because I'm watching it being done and I'm doing it at the same time It's not like somebody's just telling me and I'm like, uh, but I forgot already. So like I need a refresher. I got to I got to start playing with it again.

I think I would remember once I started doing it, but I have to start doing it. Because, you know, this comes out in one week from today. So I should probably do some sort of special wheel for it. Yeah, probably. Mommy, no, mommy's trying. Mommy's trying. Well, you have two people who could definitely help you. if you need some help with that.

Good. Yeah. You're higher. Did you have a favorite character when you were writing it? Like, you had the most fun writing. Yes. I absolutely loved writing PJ. I thought she was a trip.

Yes. Because she was the most, I guess, well, she started out being the most, like, duplicitous. And she was just fun because, you know, and then she had she had she had she had this hold on i got right here she had zero bucks to give she did like she was just she was just like whatever like everything was just um you know she had her mission she knew what she had to do and then things changed and then that's kind of when the other another character became kind of more duplicitous so that was fun because then you know they both thought that they were doing the right thing and they were both playing each other

So it was, it was fun. It was fun. It was so much fun to read. So much fun to read. And I loved Kim's backstory too. That was like one of my feet. Because like I thought I knew, you know, I thought I knew where you were going in the direction of the book. And then all of a sudden there's this backstory and I'm like, huh.

This is like, this is, this is very fun to read. And I was not expecting this whatsoever. And I loved the flashbacks. And I love how you like weave your flashbacks into like present time, like a memory. Like sometimes I don't like always love like a dual perspective in that like sort of way. But like the way that you woven these like memories and like the core things that were kind of parallel to what was going on in Kim's life at that time. I was like, oh my God. Another way that my girl's a genius.

Well, they always tell us not to info dump. And, you know, like just start out and just be like, oh, so by the way, this is everything that happened. And just kept like an entire backstory. So, you know, I'm getting better. I mean, every writer learns with every book that they write, which, thank God, because, you know, if I went back to like my very first manuscript, the one I wrote like 10 years ago, oh, God. No. I mean, it was just awful.

I mean, I mean, even trying to rewrite this, like, would just, it would never fly. it was just that bad. But of course, I thought it was great. And my mom and my friends told me it was great. So I'm shoving it in front of age and just for like two years. And they're like, no, it's terrible. I'm like, no, it's not. It's so good.

My mom likes that. Yeah, my mom likes it. But, you know, every writer learned as they go. So because that was like all info dump. Like the whole like first chapter was like what happened to her like five years ago. And it's like, no. So like we learned. learn how to weave things better.

So, you know, I'm still learning, but I hope I'm getting better at it, you know. Yeah, exposition is like one of the things that Tyler and I are sometimes thinking about in movies because of what you're talking about where like sometimes it's like, but I haven't seen you in five years. And I'm like, you wouldn't say that to someone when you walked into their house or like just be a little bit more subtle. I'm not saying I've helped that with your books, but it was reminding me of that. No, but that's another thing that I realized when, like, I look back at my first manuscript and everybody does it on their first manuscript

because I was reading other first manuscripts. And, like, you know, when I see it on, like, threads and stuff and people are, like, putting stuff up, everybody does it with their first manuscript and it never happens. Every single dialogue line, they'd be like, okay, Kate, so where would you like to go to dinner? Well, Gary, what would you like to have? Well, Kate said that Kate wants, um, He said Kate wants ravioli. And then Gary could be like, but Jamie, I thought you wanted Japanese.

I'd be like, but Gerr, you said you wanted that. Like nobody talks to me. Nobody says anybody's name ever. But every first manuscript had that because I guess we think like we don't, like our readers aren't going to know who's talking. But they know. They're not stupid. I know. Oh, yeah.

That was a lot. That was one of the many, many lessons I learned. Now it's like if somebody says their name, it's like, you know, they're probably screwing or something. Minor closed door. But I bet they're saying each other's name a lot back there, you know. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure they are. I know I would say a few names.

No, you wouldn't. No, you die. You know what? Start watching. Start watching yourself talk to people. people. You're never going to see you're never going to say. No, I'm saying I'm saying behind closed doors. There are a few of your characters. Oh, yeah, probably, you know, jerks. Yeah. Like, you know, yeah, you love you. You love your jerks. So that's why I said, I remember when you did about this early.

I'm like, you're going to love Tony. Oh, I did. I did. I absolutely. I was like, I was like, this is my, he was my hardest person to cast because I was like, I need like the, like, the sexiest man in the entire world. That's Tony. I loved him Yeah I knew you're like him Yeah Because you like that you like toxic toxic people

I do I do I find them so interesting But that's the thing I like toxic like you know characters That's why I always say Like that's I mean you guys know You've read all my books

So like you know They're they're morally gray at best My character I love that Like when I need like reviews On other books And it's like one star All the characters

were unlikable on my top of my list. Like I go out and buy it. Like, you know, like one man's trash is another man's treasure. But I love writing morally great characters. I love reading about morally great characters because I'm not reading romance. I'm reading thrillers. Like, I want them to be bad. I want them to have, you know, horrible personalities.

I want them to do terrible things. It's so fun. I just love the disdain in your voice. You're like, I'm not reading romance. Yeah. I just don't. It's just not my thing. It's just not something that, I mean, it's a, it's the biggest market. It's the biggest genre in writing. It's, it's got most of the audience, but it's just not something I read. I like murder and blood and killing. Yeah. But it's like also interesting too when

like people leave those reviews because like my thing is, is like you might just like go about your day-to-day life being like, oh, I'm a good person. I'm a good person. But like, if you were in a situation such as some of these characters in a Jamie Lynn Hendricks book, would you turn into a morally gray person or do you think that you would still be perfect? You know what I mean? Like when some of these people are like in situations where it's like when you're under hot water, like you are not thinking about your like Christine reputation. Yeah. You got to eat a Snickers bar like you're not yourself. Yeah. But I also love that like every single one of your characters has such sharp, snarky dialogue.

But I don't ever feel like I've read like the same character. You know what I mean? Like yeah. From finding Tessa to their double lives, everyone has had like snarky dialogue, but none of your characters are ever alike. So I always love that too. I always look forward to your dialogue. Like I usually try to make one snarky just because it's, it's, it's, fun like i thought pj was very snarky i mean she she just had she had a lot to say yeah you know

because she was she was two people so she you know and she like hated who she was and then when she became that like when she hated who she used to like so like she was fun because she was always down on herself and being like you know okay like whatever what am i doing what you know blah blah so yeah she was always a little pissed yeah Well, what, Mubi? I'm always a little pissed now. That's part of my charm. I don't think it's a spoiler because it's in the synopsis,

but where did your idea to have like trying to kill people with pills and their drinks? Like, did that come from anything? Have you always, like, wanted to write a story like that? Well, no, it was never a big. like desire of mine but as you guys know as you read as it got through you you found out how complicated the pill was like it wasn't it wasn't just you know okay whatever let's get some some some you know liquid plumber or something like you know it wasn't like that it was a very very complicated thing because it was about and that was part of like the story too toward the end

was like how they went about getting all of this stuff to make sure that they didn't get caught and how it was, you know, picked by somebody else and transferred someone else. And, you know, so that took some research. And I thank Heather Chavez for that because she took a lot of pictures. I was blurbing one of her books. And it was all poisons, constant poisons. And I was like, where do you even know? And it's like they could tell you, like, which one you, you know,

we'll hit you in one minute and two minutes and five minutes and ten minutes in an hour, how to distribute them, where to get them. And then she was like taking a bunch of pictures for me. You know, she didn't want me being caught buying the book because, you know, my husband's still alive. So she was taking a picture, a bunch of pictures of the pages. And, you know, she's like, what do you need? I'm like, I need one that's like a 20 to 30 minute acting, you know, because I knew.

I knew how she was going to get it. So then like I went through that and then it was like, okay. And it's like this one presents this way. presents it like this one's going to make your like your eyes bleed out and this one's going to make you do this and this one's going to do that so I just picked one that was that was just cruel but and it cruel and painful because you know that's what the person thought that she deserved at the time um so I made it cruel and painful but but it was but but it was different it was fun like writing about because I've never seen it before and I've never heard of it

before. So it was fun kind of writing a way to die that wasn't just like drinking something and like, you know, passing out on the table. Like, shame on all sorts and all sorts of nuts before that. Yeah, yeah. It's not like a Scooby-Doo episode where somebody's like in the drink and then like, like, who's a stranger? It's these damn kid. Like even like some movies like that. It's like somebody does like one of these in the drink and then they're like have like a little like teaspoon of like foam in their mouth and they're like, Becky's dad. Yes.

I know. It was a tough one to read though. Yeah. Yeah. It was a tough one to read. Yeah. With like, because like I said,

you always like, I can't say anything spoilery, but you always, you always take us on such a journey. And like with this one, I was like, I like felt for like every character, which doesn't always happen with a thriller for me.

And then I was like, well, now I don't want this person to die. And now I don't want this person to die. And I kind of know that this person is going to die. But I'm just going to be, I'm just going to be like completely delulu and in denial and be like, no. Yeah. And that was a thing. Like, because I wrote it in like, you know, like linear. So I knew.

I mean, and this is in the synopsis too. So we're not giving any way. But like PJ dies in like the end of chapter two. And then I end up liking her so much. I was like, maybe I could go back and kill somebody else instead. And I thought about it, but then I was like, it's a major, major rewrite because everything kind of led up to that happening. And then I was thinking about making her find out, but it worked. I think it worked better.

I mean, because she was just a tragic character, which was, you know, which was sad. but it was also fun because I don't, does that make sense that it was sad, but it was also fun. But also her BFF, Matt Nysica, he is a real person too. He is my, he is my gay husband. He is my gay husband in New Jersey. He is my BFF. He is my bride or die. And I told him that I am using his name in this book just because I love him.

So that's why, so that's why he's, he's in the book as, as, you know, her, her, her, her, her, because he does everything for her. I freaking love that so much because that was going to be my next question is like when I was reading the relationship between PJ and Matt, I was like reading it and I was like kind of like romance readers say this. But they're like, oh, I was kicking my feet like because they were so like giddy and happy about it.

But that's what I was doing with PJ and Matt because I was like you, the way you like wrote a relationship between a woman and a gay man and that. friendship like you couldn't have done it more perfect because my like my personal opinion has always been like a relationship between a gay man and a woman is like a brother and sister like you will go at each other and like yell at each other and fight like to the death and then like two minutes later like if somebody so much as looks at her sideways you're like don't fucking look at her like that you what I mean like come on I'm gonna go take you out to dinner like you asshole and like they were like so snarky back and forth, but then, like, really, like, loved each other so much.

I was like, that was one of my favorite parts of the book. Yeah, and I just, I got that from experience, you know, for having, for having Matt in my corner. So I think their relationship was easy to write for me because I just drew on, you know, I mean, granted, like, we're like 30 years older than them. But, you know, the, the, the, the, the way was like there i i think it came off genuine because because it was genuine the way the way it is with with me and matt so so i kind of just transferred it all over and just made them you know younger yeah i do feel like the relationships are what really made it feel like lived in and like real yeah you had um you know you had p j matth

relationship and then you also had uh kim and tony's relationship and then you had pj and anthony's relationship which were all kind of you know convoluted and then you know the relationship you had was was well let's just call her carla and um and ron um which was you know but then you know there were other relationships also that was you know so it was a lot of like intertwining but that's why And that's why it's called their double lives. I mean, nobody was who they seem to be. Yeah. You just love and have mastered, like, the ensemble cast.

Yeah, you think? A hundred percent. Oh, thank you. The one, the one, the one I've got, the one I've got going on sub, has three main characters, point of view, up until act three and then a couple of more pop in so you can figure out what's going on but

you know we'll see if that whenever sees the light of day and then with the one that I'm writing there's there's again three but that this one I really like because this is something I've never ever ever seen done before as far as like a twist and and the way these characters come together this one is really interesting I got I got to get my butt down and like finish this one I like it. It's good. I did it. I can't wait. I can't wait.

I'm so excited. Your castes are just always so freaking good. Like, you're, every time I go to, like, cast one of your books, I feel like it's, like, the most pressure because your characters are so lively that I have to, like, pick the right. But, like, Carla, let me tell you about my girl, Carla. I cannot wait to see. I cannot wait to see who you have for Carla. I freaking loved Carla.

so much. Well, she had her, you know, she had her, her, you know, issues. She was fun to write too, because, like, I made her, like, a real housewife. Just, you know, I just made her, like, every horrible part of, like, a real housewife that you could be is what I made her. And that was kind of fun because it was like, she was just meant to be the, like, the queen bee or she thought she was the queen bee and just pushing everybody around and being a snoball and, you know, she was fun to. She was the one that, like,

I laughed out loud more at this one than any of your books because of, like, her dialogue. And I just, like, I love somebody who's so, like, delusional, but also, like, unhinged that, like, she just did not give a shit what she said. And that, like, I was dying

laugh, like tears coming down my face with the dialogue with this one, especially. Carla. Yeah, she is definitely, delusional is a very, very good word to describe her. Yes.

Yeah. Can you still hear me and see me? Yeah. Okay. Because the thing just popped up. It says your connection is unstable. I'm like, oh my God,

it sounds like me. Same. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, what was I going to ask? I don't know if I was going to ask something else. I got distracted by my dog.

Oh, best distraction ever. Tell your dog, no dogs are harmed in the making of this book, no matter what it says on page one. I'm telling everybody who's watching this. The dog does not get harmed. I would never do that, ever ever.

The dog saves lives. But none of the people are safe. Because I have to tell you, like my whole little thing with, you know, Amber, I showed you guys before. we got her, we adopted her, she was 14 months old, and we got her two weeks before I had my surgery. And the dog never left my side.

And like never left my side. It was incredible, though this dog just completely attached to me. And, you know, we thought that was taking care of everything and just it didn't like my, you know, things are, they're just touching go. So, you know, everybody wanted me to do chemo, like my husband, my best friend, my mom, like everybody. And I was just like, no, no, no, no. And for over a year, I was just like, no, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. And then, you know, when things got bad and he's like, okay, like, fine, you don't want to do it.

You know, got a few months. Right. Okay. I'm like, okay, that's fine. And I can't turn with it. I'm like, that's fine. And I went home and the dog jumped on me. And she just, the way she looked at me.

And I just said, I. am not leaving this dog. I'm not leaving my dog. So that's why I started it. So that's how much dogs mean to me because and, you know, they, we do save their lives. Like we stay from a shelter. I'm like, she was at a kill shelter before they rescued her from a kill shelter. So she goes from a kill shelter to like living her best life.

Like, but I'm, this dog is saving my life. Like, so it is a. very, you know, it's a bond that, you know, unless you have one, like I always say, everybody says they have the best dog and everybody is right. Yeah. Yeah. They're just precious and special and, you know, they're the, they make the world go around.

And would I kill for this dog? Yeah. And guess what? Anyone watching? Come at me. I know how to get away with it. Yeah. Amazing.

I know how to get away with it. And the FBI could look at my browser history all they want. I'm a writer. So it's okay. I saw the, the Karen Reed thing. I know what goes on with all of the, you know,

they're checking all the browsers and seeing what you did. Like, don't worry about me. I probably haven't researched anyway. So it's all good. Come at me. Don't fuck on. If you haven't asked me,

you're a writer. That could be some good book and spell. It's like the author that decided to be a serial killer because, like, her browsing history matches her bucks. That's a good idea. You might want to keep up self-care. Be it your take on basic instinct. Yeah.

But then is she really a serial killer? Or is somebody serial killing what they know she has on her browser? And they're setting her up. Oh, yeah. That's what it's got to be, Gare. Come on, we need the extra layer. Yeah. I'm just thinking of this.

I don't know if. Just to find out it really is her at the end. That's even better. Yeah. She set up her assistant. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking of this theory that I saw on TikTok where somebody, they think that

Billy Ray Cyrus is a serial killer because somebody had like went missing or been murdered in every town that he's toured in. Oh my God. Yeah. So people are like, somebody like went through with like a map and like they were like this person went missing when he was performing here and here and here. So like, people are like, is it him or is it somebody in his entourage? And I'm like, this needs to be a book. Yeah, this needs to be a book. Okay. Now I'm going to, now I'm going to have to look that up. Yeah. That's just that, just the

Billy Ray Cyrus and, you know, killing people thing that, that, yeah, I got to know more about that. He's a man too nowadays. What's that? He's a strange man too nowadays. I know. Yeah. So now it's like tracks. Yeah. Yeah. I totally want to see that. Yeah. I got to read about that.

That's awesome. Yeah. It's very interesting. And I'm like, somebody needs to turn this into a book. Yeah. I know you read it a lot. Have you read it recently that you loved? Yes.

I loved the retreat by Kristen Ritter. Because that was the same thing. kind of about somebody doing a con and living a double life and trying to get away with it. So I really, I really glommed on to that one. And it was, it was short. It was only like maybe 270 pages. Yeah. And then I found myself like rushing through it.

And then when I, I hate when I do that when I love a book because I keep putting it down because I'm going to finish. I'm going to be sad. And I kept putting it down because I'm like, I don't want to finish. I don't want to finish it yet. I'm not ready to be finished with it. You know, and then I just kept on picking back back up because I loved it. No. So I think I made it last, like, I think I made it last like a week where normally I would have read it in a day and in a few hours.

But I made it last like a week. So I really love that one. I haven't been able to. My arcs, but I'm going to, they denied me an arc. Then I would have read it. But I'll read it eventually here. Oh, no. I know.

Oh, no. I actually put that in my I put that in my article about because you know everybody has to do like an article for crime reads on their on their pub day and we just kind of have to talk about our book and then highlight books that we think are like it

so I did that one because I did it about like people who who you know successfully try to do like a con or something so I did the retreat and I did the the next Mrs. Parrish the sequel because you know Amber is back

and she's, oh, not you, Amber, not my little baby. No, my daughter. And she, like, she perked off when I said Amber. Because Amber's, you know, still being a con artist. And I loved that book. And then I also did the holiday assistant by May Cobb. So I have that one in there because, you know, you find out when, you know, the lady was working for that, the actress and the director.

and then she starts to, you know, calm them because she's trying to get what she wants out of it, which is, you know, the brothers. That's why she was morally gray. I loved her. Yeah. Totally. Those great comps. Yeah.

I love that. I need to check out the Kristen Ritter book. I really need to read it. I like this. I think I'm, I don't know. I don't know how far I am into my June arcs, but once I finish them, I'm reading the retreat. It's going to happen. Yeah, it was good. I highly, highly recommend.

And it's quick. It's a fast, fast read. That's nice. It's like my stuff. Like, you know, I read popcorn thrillers. Like I don't write, you know, like Ashley Winston writes a great, like, in-depth. Yeah, just like, yeah, like with like huge like background and meaning and they're still thrillers and it's still exciting. I just like, you know, like I love stuff like. that too. Because her, despite them being so

more intricate, they're still very fast-paced. Yeah. And that's why I love her books. But like, mine are just, you know, they're popcorn thrillers. They're not, no, you know, they're not winning a Pulitzer. That's okay. Just waiting it us over.

I would say and not just because I love you, but I would say that yours are a step above a popcorn thriller because I love popcorn thrillers, but I feel like a lot of popcorn thrillers. You're like, okay, that was like satisfying. And then I'm ready to move on to something. And like, every time I read your books, I'm like, okay, I'm satisfied.

But I also like, I'm not ready to let go yet. Yeah, I feel like you get attached to characters in like a true popcorn thriller. But like I get attached to it. Is that what you're kind of saying too? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So your specialty popcorn or something.

Like maybe you're like your caramel popcorn. caramel popcorn. Caramel popcorn with like some salt on. Yes. Yeah. Because my characters are a little salty. Yeah. It's what I'm based on characters.

Yeah. They are. Yeah. Well, everyone needs to go read this, obvious. I don't know if you haven't read it yet. Like, run to the book store. Run to go get it. Tell your friends.

No dogs are harmed in this book. Yeah. I are worshipped, actually. This book. And the dogs is a golden doodle named Murphy. And if you've ever heard of that before, because Gare has one. Here he is.

Oh, my God. And that's what he looks like in the book. I swear, I made him, I made him exactly, exactly like that. Yeah. You made him about 15 pounds lighter, too. Like, for you need to go on a diet. Oh man, you know what? I just realized, Kate, the original, the original, until I saw, until I met Kim Valva and she won,

the main character's name was Kate Wilder. It was a Kate. And then I didn't want to make her Cunty Kim. So, sorry, I just gave out of hints about Cunty Carla. I didn't want to make her that name. So I said, oh, you could just be the main character. I could just change it because, you know, Tony calls her, like he was called her. like he was calling her Katie cat, but then he started calling her Kimmy cat.

So I was able to change that easily. You know, I feel like an act because it could have been Kate and, and Murphy in there. So I'm sorry. I will make it up to you. I'm okay. I just like that on that.

Wilder, now you've convinced me because I kind of, Tyler, Tyler doesn't like our last thing either, even though it's his. And he's like, you really need a different name when you publish a book. And I'm like,

Kate Wilder actually really, there you go as well. So you might have just. come up with my pen name. Take it. There it is. And I love that you're writing. I am writing.

I love. So you know who to come to when you need a blurb. Yes. I similarly need to get back to it and finish it because I have like 65,000 words. I'm so close. Yeah. I just need the time. But we've been building.

Okay. When you go back to it, if you find your character's dialogue where they're saying each other's name, spread it out. Yeah. It will be looking. Totally. Well, whenever your next one is, I'm very excited to talk to you again. Well, I could tell you that it's not going to be next May.

So no, no, I currently do not have a contract because I left my publisher. So we're, you know, we're going to start working on getting me a new one, so it's all good. Yeah. So it's just not going to be next May, but we will get something. I will get something out for you guys. I will. Yeah. And we will force it on other people. It'll be like, oh, 100%.

Force it on them is, you know, that sounds very, you know. Yeah. That sounds like maybe you can be a character in my book. Maybe you are more great, Kate. I would be like, read this book or I'm blocking you for ever. Yeah, you'll threaten them. Yeah. Kate'll be forceful.

You'll be the muscle. Yeah.