Bookwild - Kaila Yu's Fetishized: Yellow Fever, Sexualization, Fetishization, Feminism & Beauty

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

This week, I got to talk with Kaila Yu about her memoir Fetishization: A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty.  We dive into her experience growing up amidst yellow fever, how her self image was affected, and how she learned to love and accept herself.Fetishization: A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty SynopsisNo one fetishized Kaila Yu more than she fetishized herself. As a young girl, she dreamt of beauty. But none of the beautiful women on television looked like her. In the late '90s and early 2000s Asian women were often reduced to overtly sexual and submissive caricatures—the geishas of the book-turned-film Memoirs of a Geisha; the lewd twins, Fook Mi and Fook Yu, in Austin Powers in Goldmember; Papillon Soo Soo’s sex worker character in the cult Vietnam War movie Full Metal Jacket; and pin-up goddess Sung-Hi Lee. Meanwhile, the "girls next door" were always white. Within that narrow framework, Kaila internalized a painful conclusion: The only way someone who looked like her could have value or be considered beautiful and desirable was to sexualize herself.Blending vulnerable stories from Yu’s life with incisive cultural critique and history, Fetishized is a memoir-in-essays exploring feminism, beauty, yellow fever, and the roles pop culture and colonialism played in shaping pervasive and destructive stereotypes about Asian women and their bodies. Yu reflects on the women in media who influenced her, the legacy of U.S. occupation in shaping Western perceptions of Asian women, her own experiences in the pinup and import modeling industry, auditioning for TV and film roles that perpetuated dehumanizing stereotypes, and touring the world with her band in revealing outfits. She recounts altering her body to conform to Western beauty standards, allowing men to treat her like a sex object, and the emotional toll and trauma of losing her sense of self in the pursuit of the image she thought the world wanted.  Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

This week I got to talk with Kylie Yu, who is the author of fetishize, a reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty. It is a really fascinating memoir that's incredibly vulnerable and very open about her experience as an Asian in America, especially in the 2000s. Here's what it's about. No one fetishized Kylie Yu more than she fetishized herself. As a young girl, she dreamt of beauty, but none of the beautiful women on television looked like her.

Growing up as a teenager in the late 90s and 2000s, Asian representation was scarce, and where it existed, the women were often reduced to overtly sexual and submissive creatures. The Geishas of the book-turned film, Memoirs of a Geisha, the lewd twins, Fuk Me and Fuku in Austin Powers films. Epian Su Su Sex Worker Character in the Colt Vietnam War movie Full Metal Jacket, a pin-up goddess Sunhili. Meanwhile, all the girls next door were always white. Within that framework, Kyla internalized a painful conclusion. The only way someone who looked like her could have value or be considered beautiful and desirable was to sexualize herself. Blending vulnerable stories from Muse Life with incisive cultural critique and history,

fetishize is a memoir and essays exploring feminism, beauty, yellow fever, and the roles of pop culture and colonialism played and shaping pervasive and destructive stereotypes about Asian women and their bodies. U revisits the formative moments that shaped her identity. She reflects on the women in media who influenced her, the legacy of the U.S. occupation and shaping Western perceptions of Asian women, her own experiences in the pin-up and import model industry, auditioning for TV and film roles that perpetuated dehumanizing stereotypes,

and touring the world with her band and revealing outfits. She recounts altering her body to conform to Western beauty standards, allowing men to treat her like a sex object and the emotional toll and trauma of losing her sense of self in the pursuit of the image that she thought the world wanted. I couldn't get over how vulnerable some of the things she shared is or was. It's a very powerful story. It made me aware of some things that I thought were truth, that were not true, which you'll understand once you listen. So that being said, let's hear from Kyla. I am super excited to talk with you about fetishized. I was just blown away the whole time that I was reading it. Some of it was just like the stuff that I learned

was blowing my mind, but also I thought it was really cool how vulnerable you were about a lot of stuff that I think is like hard to talk about. So yeah, I'm just I'm super excited to talk about. I'm so glad you reached out. Yeah, thank you so much for a reading and having me on. Yeah, totally. So the beginning opens up with just these really casual kind of like one-off conversations you had with Asia files, essentially. And I thought it set the tone really well. So what made you decide to start there or did you kind of know you were always going to start it from there? Yeah, I thought that that one anecdote about my acquaintance saying if you lined up 100 Asian women and 100 white women, the Asian women would be better looking. And he just said it so casually in a group of people with no like, not like he thought he was saying anything questionable. And then, of course, like this was kind of a powerful guy.

so none of us were going to call him out at that moment either. So yeah, that totally makes sense. So we kind of follow your whole story or a lot of your life. It spans a lot of your life and just your experiences with the perceptions of Asian women and the way they're depicted throughout culture. But I was also wondering what was the moment that you felt like you were ready, to write this and to talk about it. Oh, it was such an accident.

It totally happened during the pandemic. I'm a travel writer. So then all my work and trips were canceled. And I had all the time in the world to learn TikTok. Right. Basically, I started writing about TikTok because all the editors were buying TikTok stories. And then I went to learn it myself because I had always wanted to learn it. But like, who has the time?

But now I had all the time in the world. And then I just started like posting content. And you just experiment to see what works for your audience. And then people really responded to when I talked about the 2000s and what it was like growing up Asian American then. They really resonated about that because I guess people have forgotten about those times. And yeah, mostly forgotten about those times. And it was nostalgic. Everyone was nostalgic during the pandemic.

And so I really started leaning into that. And then I started reflecting back in my 20s. I was a pinup model. So then I would post like anecdotes from that. It wasn't something I really thought about at all until I started posting about it during the pandemic. And then this was like a year in. And then there was the spa shootings that happened during the pandemic. The shooter went and shot eight people and six of them were Asian women.

And they tried to say it wasn't targeted or racist, but it totally was. Yeah. So that really caused me to reflect on how I might have, like, contributed to this, mostly subconsciously in my youth, but I definitely feel like I unconsciously played part. So that kind of read the idea of the book ultimately. Right. It's fascinating kind of the speed at which publishing works.

There are, like, even debut fiction authors that I've spoken with this year are like, Well, the pandemic happened and I was like, maybe I can write a book. So it's like, obviously, it was a horrible thing for us all to live through. But it has been interesting seeing how many people did like kind of dive into something creative or something that they just hadn't had the time to do until we were all kind of forced to stay at home. It's literally like you just have to pivot and make the best of like, I mean, it's a hard time right now in life, right? But you have to make the best and like find the opportunity because there's always opportunity to educate or like work on yourself or whatever. Yeah. Do you feel like your like travel writing? Did that affect how you wrote this book? Like

did you kind of bring anything from those experiences into this? A little bit. I think the travel writing was inspired by my time in the band where we toured around and I really like developed a love for travel then. And then also I discovered free diving while travel writing. And it was only through writing the book that I realized why I had such a deep connection to it was because I was so because of like how I fetishized and objectified myself. My body was an object to me to use to like for power. Because in a patriarchy, your like sexuality and youth are power for a limited time. But then I realized that I was still kind of operating my body.

They're like pushing it for results. So the travel writing made me discover scuba diving and free diving, which really connected me to my body. Yeah. It is, it's cool finding the things that do connect you to your body because like kind of what you're talking about when you've had like mental or emotional health issues or blockages, just whatever, sometimes you just don't even realize how much that like takes you out of your body. You don't even know you're disassociated or whatever. Yes. Yeah. And especially in

your case, you start very early and like you cover stuff from like your early teens or maybe even a little bit before that to now. And so it's like when you've been dealing with it literally your whole life, how are you ever going to know? Yeah. Tons of therapy. that's being into you're right um the the theme overall is is you exploring both some of your internalized uh like racism towards yourself in some ways and also societies which is how you kind of learned it um so kind of looking back was it therapy that kind of helped you become aware of that or was Is there like a moment that helped you like, oh, like all of this connects together for me now? Yeah, it was a lot of it was getting sober.

So that caused me to like have to do work on myself and like, yeah, be sober. So I was present to look at myself. You know, you're not really able to look at that stuff when you're not sober. And also during the pandemic, before the shootings, there were so much Asian hate happening that everybody was talking about these topics. So we were very much like it was in the zeit guy. Yes. Yeah. That was the other thing I really that was engaging for me about the book is I just recently, I started a substack where I'm talking about like the way stories help me understand the world. That's at least part of my substack. And so I'm kind of talking about how media like books, TV shows, movies, the way they help me understand like both myself and the world. Once I started reading yours, because this is like a collection of essays to kind of just on different things that you experienced. I think the first one you technically referenced, I think was memoirs of a geisha was the first one.

But it was like dawning on me that the same way that that like positively helps me, it can also be so negative if the stories being told are, you know, maybe not being told by the right people, for example. So as someone who's like very into pop culture and I get a lot of stuff from stories as well, this was like very illuminating of like, oh, representation doesn't always matter if it's like written by a white man essentially is kind of working with memoirs of vacation specifically. So did you, did you know when you started that like you were probably going to be able to find these very zeitgeisty moments or media to kind of explain how that understood yourself? or did you kind of have that happen as you started writing? I kind of knew, like immediately those popped to mind

because we're as a community really aware of it. But the sad thing is that there is so few. When I go back into the 2000s, literally I've named everything that I can name because there's nothing else. There's like about five media references. And I think it's like Memoirs of a Geisha, Austin Powers, where the girls were on for like a minute or something. Yeah.

Mean girls. Joyla Club. Like there's six or seven pieces and that's like everything. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was fascinating to me. The reason that like it really clicked in my head where I was like, oh, stories can also. I mean, any new stories could be just as damaging. But when I started the chapter that's just called Geisha, I have not read memoirs of a Geisha. I have not seen the movie. When it came out, though, I was like I was. I don't know. I was like 12 or 13. And my parents book club read it. So like I remember hearing about it was like the crazy part. And that was my only context of Geisha. So even when I first started reading it, I was like, oh yeah, it's that really sexually exploitative practice that they do in this

other place. Oh yeah. And so when I was reading it and got to the point where you were saying like geisha literally means like art person is that person i think is yeah um that was like my jaw just dropped because i was like for 20 years like i have not even because i think it said it came out in 2005 for 20 years i have i didn't even read it i didn't even watch it but i knew that was like the association of it so it took me 20 years to like read something like this and learn that it was actually not even that um so So yeah, do you want to talk about how like conflicting all of that messaging must have been for you as well? Well, that's crazy to even hear that because you never even watched the movie and just came away.

Basically with the idea that geishar prostitutes, that's kind of like the overlying message of the movie, which they actually are not. So yeah. And it was portrayed that way. So how could you fault people for thinking how it was written and portrayed? And the book was so honestly beautifully written. Like it really is engaging. So it draws people in and like romanticizes it. Right.

Yeah. It was reminding me of if anyone has seen sirens on Netflix. Yeah. Which is like obviously very different too. But I think those themes of like younger women winning and having to compete with each other. It was really reminding me of watching that here recently and being like, oh, this was the point of what they were saying with this show, basically. But I do. I think people, it's like engaging as a thriller or not even a thriller. I don't know what it was necessarily considered. A romantic drama of

like a woman trying to be a sugar baby. Right. Right. Like I think, I think that is an interesting concept for a story, which is probably a big part of what, like, brought people to it, but there was just no need to do it with geishas necessarily. Yeah. And I mean, the whole premise of the, the whole buildup is to when she sells her virginity, which geisha, like real geisha will dispute is not a real thing. But I think the confusion is that like prostitutes would dress up as geisha for military. So, um, the lines would be blurred and confused. then, but like real trained geisha, don't do that. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. That was, it was just blowing my mind. You also really dive into kind of in a lot of the chapters. This concept where, like you said, under the patriarchy, youth and beauty are some of your most powerful tools. Like, technically, it's probably true that it's one of the more powerful tools. however so it's like it's like a it can be a weapon but it also was like a wound as well like being

thinking that was what you needed to do so can you talk about kind of how how with your experience like it did make you feel empowered but then later you were kind of like why did it make me feel empowered I mean I think we were all as women and not just Asian women taught that in the 2000 I kind of call out author Ariel Levy. She wrote feminist chauvinist pigs. And she's talking about how like porn culture and ranch culture was normalized in the 2000s. So basically we were taught like we are post-feminists. We are like equal now and we can be sexy if we want to be.

And it's empowering. And that's like basically a lie. So I mean, there is a way to be sexually. But it's so difficult in the patriarchy because it's like, it's always the male gaze is a default gaze. It's the only gaze, really. So how do you not perform for it? You know? Yeah. That's what I read a book here recently that just came out a couple of months ago called Girl on Girl by. I totally read that. I devoured that book. And that covers a lot of the same topics too. It really does. That's what I was fascinated reading yours because this obviously talks about it.

Yours talks a little bit more niche. It's more toward like the fetishization of Asian women. But it was reminding me of that book that I had read because I had that same realization that you kind of just mentioned. I was like listening to it when I was walking my dogs. And she was talking about that, how we were told it was empowering to be like wanted or even to be objectified. And she talks about it in the context of music as well and rap.

And it was also reminding me of like when I was in college and like I had a rap playlist that I would run to. And like you would feel like you would feel empowered by the songs because you're like, oh, this gives me power. And like I'm working out and I'm hot. And like all of this and like listening to it. I was like, oh, okay. So like it was like did I did I actually want that type of power or was I just like told like hey, I mean this is your power. You should feel good about it. So it's been crazy reading that one and then yours like so so similarly within a few months.

Yeah. It's such a limited power and it's so damaging to teach young women that that is their superpower when there are so many other, you know, things we have to offer. Yeah. It really is. you also kind of talk about different like body modifications that you went through and I think that one is that one's always such a tricky topic in general because it kind of similarly it's like I would want women to feel like they can do whatever they want with their bodies and then the flip side is like how well can we even always gauge why we feel bad about a certain part of our body um so can you kind of talk about like how like conflicting that is for you too. Yeah, it's funny. I just posted a video on this topic before coming on today. So right now there's a controversy happening on Love Island season seven with Sierra Ortega. She basically, I think in an old of a old post, she said she was getting Botox because her eyes looked to sea word, which is like a slur for Asian or specifically Chinese eyes, which seems kind of shocking that you would think that it was okay to say that

slater. She's been in a lot of drama this season, right, too? I'm actually not caught up. I'm still on season six. I'm not caught up either. I just keep seeing her in the headlines. Yeah, yeah. She's in the headlines.

And I guess her getting cut is going to be a big deal because she's like in so many of the major storylines. And she's in like a coupled couple. But anyways, like she didn't even know any of this drama was having on. happening because they don't have social media but basically people took to like social media they started petitions to get producers to take her off i'm actually against cancel culture like i would rather see accountability you know yeah no no cancel culture works for like Harvey Weinstein correct but like not for somebody who said some dumb thing you know i agree um now for this

it's maybe a little bit different because like other followers posted receipts of like pointing out hey this is like racist and she said but i didn't use it that way or whatever so it's been pointed out to her and then she didn't remove it and like oh yeah so this is perhaps a little bit different but um yeah still i mean it's still racist if you're using a slur yeah it's a little it's a little strange to be using a slur she obviously didn't consider it a slur yeah that's yeah that's in her opinion it's just not Yeah, that, yeah, that's a tricky one. But yeah, growing up, you know, everybody knows about that, like, racist thing where you pull your eyes back.

And, yeah. So, and then Asian eyes have never been like, oh, like Asian eyes are the prettiest or whatever. Definitely growing up, it wasn't like celebrated as a feature. So I always wanted bigger eyes. And then in my 20s, I ended up getting double eyes eyelid surgery. It's like probably the most common surgery for Asians. Like moms will take their daughters like as young as like 12, 13, 14 to get it done. Right.

Get it done early. So, well, I don't know. See, my surgery, the double eye surgery, you get it like sliced up higher to like bring your eyes open. But mine has faded since then. And I was happy with that at the time. I don't regret doing it necessarily, but I don't think I'm going to do it again. And then I definitely think if I grew up with different, you know, influences, and it wasn't just such a acceptable surgery, I may not have gotten it done.

And then not everybody knows that I think it's Dr. Ralph Millard, who's a white guy, invented the surgery or popularized it during the U.S. U.S. occupation during the Korean War or whatever to make prostitutes more attractive to American soldiers. So, yeah, the origins of it are not wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a, you're talking about upper blefts for anyone who is like really into pop culture. Like you're hearing about it even more now with just like all kinds of women. Like to the point that like it's like I have one, I have an eye that like droops. like my eyelid does just on one side, especially when I'm really tired.

And my doctor had mentioned to me before, he was like, if it does get to a point where, like, it's affecting your vision, like, you might be able to get it covered by insurance. And there have been times, and so like ever since it's been in my mind from that, and then it's like, I'm hearing people talk about it all the time and be like, I think this celebrity got it. I think this housewife got it. There have been times where I'm like, oh, it would just be so nice if my eye didn't. look different than my other one. And then sometimes I'm also like, I don't know how much people

are really noticing the tiny little difference in my eyes. But it has gotten more popular. But when I was reading that, like about where it came from, I'm like, oh, I don't think this really came from the idea of trying to help people medically. Yeah, which is probably true with a lot of plastic surgery as well. And to be clear, I don't think there's a black and white answer. about whether we should be getting plastic surgery either. I think there's a lot of intent and involved in, like, how we would maybe judge that. And I thought it was cool. I feel like you approached a lot of topics in the book where you're like, this is what,

like, socially I grew up around and this is why it made me feel this way. But you also aren't like shaming anyone who's done it or shaming yourself as well. I feel like you really kind of stayed in a neutral space in some ways where you just kind of like talked about the truth of it all. Was that was that kind of intentional too to still want, because like even your experiences, you're like, oh, I was complicit in some of this because it was what I was around. Well, I think we just have such a culture of shaming women. They have no way of winning, you know. So I didn't want to contribute to that anymore and try to like, you know, I could be judgmental like the rest of everybody. But just to try to not be in

the book, you know, to try to just give an unbiased opinion on things. Yeah. You dive into a lot of stereotypes. So there was kind of like the geisha stereotype, the China doll, the ABG. And it was like these were the only categories that you kind of saw that you could fit into versus just kind of being a person who has your own information. like all across the board. So what kind of like looking back on those stereotypes. Um, basically what do you kind of wish you could have seen more of than like just those stereotypes?

Well, I mean, I just, um, there were so many Asian school girls growing up. It's like, why is anybody a school girl on TV? There's like the Harajuku girls and then the girl in Fast and Furious Devanayoki and then the Japanese twins and Austin Powers, et cetera, et cetera. And it wouldn't be a big deal if there was like multifaceted representation, but when it's so limited and they're always portrayed that way, you start to see yourself like, oh, that's what I should be to be noticed, you know. So representation is just so important. And what we're seeing now is like, you know, white directors or male directors have always emasculated Asian men and presented them as nerdy or this and that.

But now that K-pop's taking off, like women are starting to really find Asian men attractive. And that's just because they're getting positive representation. It just shows how much it matters. Yeah. Yeah, it is this default that. especially with the men like you're saying, are just like nerds or scientists or geeks or like whatever you want to fit in there. And it is just, it's so limiting in all kinds of ways. I just lost my place in my questions. So you also kind of kind of talk about like the gray area

of like what is a preference and being attracted to a certain type of person. which we all technically are attracted to certain types of people versus when it veers into fetishization. So what are like the key differentiators you see there? Yeah, it's very nuanced because it's like totally a case by case situation, but I'll give a specific example. Like they're always the fetish she guys are always accusing Asian women of having a white fetish. And I'm like, first of all, that's impossible because a fetish has to do with colonialization. So Asian women have never colonized white countries and raped white men, first of all.

And then second of all, like, Asian women aren't with white men for sex. You know, they're not like, oh, my God, I want to like fuck that. Like, that's just not the motivation. I will say there's probably internalized racism where they see white men as a pinnacle, because that's what's represented as the football player in the movie or the hero or whatever, that's different and it's not sexualized. So it's not a fetish. That's internalized racism.

And also, I think Asian women don't treat white men as interchangeable. Like, oh, I'm done with you. I'll just get another white guy, which is something Asian files do. They'll just say like, oh, okay, there's a specific video that went viral. There was like this old dude, like 50 years old, old white guy. And he was saying, here's my advice to all you men out there. Go to Asia. You'll find a hot Asian girl.

She'll be extremely hot in her 20s. And she'll inevitably get sick of you in five years. But you'll just trade her in for a new one. So that's a good example of the interchangeability is what makes it a fetish and like the disposability. Right. And you never hear like women saying that about. men period like oh he's gonna get sick i'll just trade him and burn new one you know what i mean no yeah not the conversation that's normally happening um so another thing that kind of blew my mind was you talk

about um during the wars there were even these comfort comfort shelters i think it was what they were kind of called set up for when like troops came in and so they could they could hook up with women there who were choosing to be prostitutes essentially. And then when they didn't have that, the amount of rapes, like the number was astronomical, the way that the number of those even went up. And that that was what kind of caused this perception, another perception I've had before, about how going to Thailand specifically, why am I forgetting, yeah, it's kind of associated with like men just going to your point to be with any interchangeable amount of women or men or non-binary people in general. Was that something you learned as you were writing this book or were you aware of that like earlier on too? that's just kind of known I guess amongst like Asians that like they have tours sex

tours where you can sign up for a tour to go to Asia and like tour these sexual places I don't know where you sign up they exist you know on the internet or whatever yeah and so that's a known thing and if you go to Thailand it's like a lot of super old guys with like children looking women you know so that's just kind of a known thing. And then like, yeah, the American military would specifically set up rest and restitution for soldiers in different Asian countries where some of them were legitimately prostitutes who were really to work there, whatever. But in Japan specifically, they had comfort women, where they would kidnap Korean women mostly and then some other East Asian women and they would be slaves,

basically and they called it comfort um like the japan government i didn't get into it in the book but the japan government was forced to apologize for it and i think they didn't want to admit it or this and that but that's like a dark mark on their history but yes after they shut down one specific comfort station and here's what they said about there was a one comfort station set up for american troops And the women working there said that the sex that was happening was so animalistic and ghastly, like it was shocking to them. They had no idea. And then second of all, it was shut down because of the STDs were rampantly spread.

So assuming no one's using condoms, I guess. But anyways, once it was shut down, I don't have the exact figure, but rapes went from 50 to like 330 a day. Yeah. Yeah. It was that. I knew I knew that there were, I knew that it was like a joke, which is even crazier for like men to go visit those places. What I definitely did not know, which makes sense now, of course, though, was that it even kind of originated from basically just the troops being over there. I'm like, of course, that's where it originated.

It wasn't just something spontaneous. Yeah. And that's the idea of like rewarding these poor 20-year-old soldiers who have like seen the worst things in the world with sex from like willing and unwilling women is just like a horrible cycle. Yeah. It's really it's it's terrible. And like you're saying, the men are traumatized at that point. And they're really young too, right? They're like 21 or 22.

So I don't blame the soldiers at all. It's the system. Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is. Again, I don't know if you want to discuss this part or leave it or consider it a spoiler in some ways of the book. But you also kind of explain your state of mind and all of the messaging that you were receiving and how that led to you being assaulted as well. was it it had to be difficult to write those chapters or that chapter it kind of covers it multiple but did you feel like like that was just a really necessary part for you to include yes because like that video has haunted me online for like it's almost been 30 years like the video's

off the net now but like still people have it on their hard drives you know like it exists in the world and I've never spoken about it. So this is like finally my chance to say my piece. So I thought that was very important because there's a lot of people who thought I was like just a willing participant. Yeah. Yeah. And in the context of things that have happened here, really with Diddy's case here recently, a lot of a lot of people saying like, oh, she was willing though or like she didn't say no to it you also kind of cover again like a gray area where it's like just because you didn't explicitly say no you can still be coerced into something so you can be tricked into something like for me i did not know i was not signing up for that i showed up at a place and then

it was like oh this is what it is and then i'm alone and i'm 19 the guys like two decades older and twice my size, you know. Same with Cassie, like how much older was he, you know, and he was a very powerful man. That's hard because it's like we have those responses. It's fight or flight and fawn or freeze. And sometimes to get out of like assault situation, fawn is the easiest way you just like play along until it's over and it's like traumatic. But like, yeah, sometimes, I don't know the answer to this, you know, because fighting back is like, could put you in further danger and like violence. So right.

Yeah. Yeah. Did was writing the book kind of like a healing process for you in regards to just like all of these messages that you've been sent growing up? It was probably the most healing experience of my life. I mean, my editor is so lucky because my editor has been such a champion of my book. And I didn't deliver the book to her finish. Like since it was chapter by chapter, we kind of like, I'd write an essay.

She'd give feedback and we'd be like what essay fits best. So she was very collaborative in the process. So that really helped me process a lot, just having another woman who was, you know, compassionate, just reading and working alongside me. Yeah. Yeah, it's so cool the way, like, it's a version of, like, finding your voice and feeling like I do have something to talk about and I'm going to talk about it, like, had to feel good too.

So you also dive into the male gaze, probably in lots of the chapters, but you do discuss not entirely negatively the role like your father played in the way that you wanted male attention. And it sounds like he worked really hard for your family and was like a big part of providing like the financial stability, kind of all of that that you guys needed. But you never necessarily felt connected to him. And so then that kind of led to you really seeking that connection with like any males in your life really. So what kind of helps you have those realizations that it was kind of connected to that? And I want to preface this by saying my dad is such an amazing dad in every way. Like he's kind and

like gentle and sweet. But I think in the Asian culture, they are just a little more hands off than American culture. Like your Asian dad isn't telling you you're beautiful and wonderful like, dads today do. But how did I come to that realization? I think, you know, it always goes back to childhood. All your trauma ties back to childhood. So my mother, who's also an amazing mother, but like recently a therapist pointed out, because logically I would think the male gaze issues would stem from my dad. That's like the logical conclusion. And of course, some of it does. But my therapist recently introduced me to a book called Mother Hunger because she was like, oh, there may be some issues here too. Which, of course, daughter and mother relationships are really fraught and like mothers don't get a guidebook on how to.

Yeah. So, yeah, just through getting sober and therapy has been a lot of work on like seeing what in my childhood I could heal. you know, doing that like inner child work, which is like so cheesy, but really helpful. Nah, it's so helpful. I did seven years of therapy in my 20s and now that I'm in my 30s, I'm grateful, sometimes the way I say it is that I'm grateful that my childhood was bad enough that I had to do it so early. So like when I'm trying to put a positive spin on it, that that is kind of what sticks out to me is like, at least I did do it now and now it's a little easier in my 30s to like see the things. But like you're saying there are still many moments where I'm like,

okay, my inner child is scared right now. And like, I'm just going to kind of have a conversation with her in my head and be like, you don't have to handle this. And like, I am an adult and I do know how to handle this. And it's okay that this reminds you of something. But like we can walk through this together and like I can take care of you. I read mother hunger as well as there's another one called the mother wound um and it's yeah it's just a lot and like you're saying some some mother and daughter relations are just are just fraught in general because it's a complicated dynamic and then other ones are just like very bad and it does just kind of follow you like you're saying like like kind of all of it is a part of it and you did kind of near the end you talked about how you're still

kind of reprogramming yourself which like it like i'm saying with my experience i think you if you choose to you can reprogram yourself your whole life long because there's all kinds of stuff that we want to reprogram even just when different social issues come up so um kind of what is your experience with that now that you kind you kind of have like the awareness of these things what what's the reprogramming like for you now well I'm still working with a therapist but also like I'm kind of doing she does like IFS um yes which I don't remember what it stands for internal family system Yes. So it's basically like not just inner child. There's a whole bunch of people inside you. And like I have, you know, I'm a pretty calm and mild person in general, but I do have a rageful part. And she's like identified that as the protector. And yeah, like I'll get really indignant when I feel like I've been wrong. But it's been really helping just to say like, hey, thanks so much for protecting me. You've done such an amazing job. You can like. just go take a rest now because you've done such a good job and I could take it from here.

It's like reparenting. Yes. Yeah. When I started, I think I learned about those. I learned about IFS after I had done therapy. But it like made a lot of things make even more sense to me because it there's even a part. I don't know if it's the protector that they talk about. It's been a while since I read about it.

But how sometimes even your protector is like we're just going to burn everything down. That's what my protector does. That would be safer. My director loves to do. I will cut you out of my life and pretend you never existed. We will be done. We will be done, done, done. And I won't care about it, except I'm still angry inside.

So I do. Yeah, yeah. Internal, like all of your parts work is just, it's so fascinating. But I find it so helpful. And for me, at least, it helps me interact with big feelings versus, like, being consumed by them. which used to be like the scariest part to me. I'm like, if I go near that, it's going to consume me and I'll never come out of it. And you're like, actually, that's what's happening by ignoring it.

And you're like, damn it. It's so helpful, yeah. Yeah. If anyone is interested in parts work, it's worth, it's really worth diving into. And it's really the one last thing about it is like, I would be like, stop being rageful, stop doing that because that's like having bad results. But that's not how to talk to your part. You have to like see them and like affirm that they're doing a great job because they're trying to protect.

Yes. And at some point in your life, that was the coping mechanism that helped you survive. That's like there are some quotes about like even like with addiction. I've seen it in that context where it's like when people are ready to go into recovery, they want to hate that part of themselves so much. And I've seen quotes about like, don't hate it. the things that kind of kept you alive until this point. Now that you're aware of them, you can do something differently. But at the time, that was what your body and your brain thought

was the only way to get through it. So it is a really compassionate way to interact with yourself, basically. So I'm sure there, obviously each chapter is the takeaways that you would want women and Asian women to take away from this book. But is there anything specific that you really hope Asian women take away from this book? I think we're growing on this as a society. Like it's no longer as bad as it was when I was. But it's still an issue because women are still sexualizing themselves and only fan stunts and stuff like that.

But yeah, I would just want really all women to take away, just to be aware of this. male gays. I don't think like that was even a word growing up. So nobody was even pointing it out. And just to like question, oh, am I doing that because, you know, just to have some awareness of it. So I think I would just like women to have some awareness so they could be more conscious of their decisions. Yeah. That is like the first thing that you need with anything. Sometimes when I become aware of something I want to change, I'm like, oh my gosh. What if I can't do it? And then there's someone in a podcast I was listening to, talked about how their therapist said to them,

if you've highlighted it for deletion, it's already on its way out. So like, just like know that you highlighted it for deletion. And like you're wanting to get rid of it. And it will over time if that's kind of how you approach it. Which makes it a lot less intimidating. I love that.

So far. Awareness. Yeah. Um, do you read? a lot as well. Typically, I ask people if they've read anything recently that they loved. Well, I read Girl and Girl, like, that's probably the most recent one. And I read it in like a day because it was so good. This is an older book, but Yellow Face, I think it's called. Oh, yeah. That was also something I devoured. So funny, too. Yeah. Bacire is hilarious.

So original. Yeah. Yeah. Those are both. I really. enjoyed both of those as well. Where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything? So it's all under my name, Kyla Yu, so my website, my social media, you can find me by my name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Make it easy. Yeah. Well, I will put those leaks in the show notes and otherwise, thanks so much for talking with me about it. Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.