Bookwild - Kimberly G. Giarratano's Make a Killing: P.I.s in Competition and Business Conspiracies

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

This week, I got to talk with Kimberly G. Giarratano about her newest installation in the noir Billie Levine series, Make a Killing! We dive into what was different about writing this one, how she landed on a luxury luggage company for the story, and how capitalism has seeped into college.Make a Killing SynopsisPrivate Investigator Billie Levine should be ecstatic. She’s finally getting the cheating spouse cases she’s always wanted. Nothing to do but sit back, snap incriminating photos, and get paid. Except Jeremy Yang is competing for work with his own P.I. firm. Advertising himself as “the man to get the job done” (insert eyeroll), he keeps swooping in and stealing prospective clients. Not to be outmaneuvered, Billie has offered her services to scorned women everywhere.Their rivalry escalates when Billie and Jeremy are hired by an ultra wealthy couple on opposite sides of a corporate takeover. When the bodies start dropping, Billie and Jeremy will have to join forces if they are to come out unscathed; they can kill each other later. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

This week I get to talk with a three-peed author on the podcast, Kimberly G.G.R. Tano about her newest Billy Levine mystery, make a killing. I have loved Billy for, I don't know, how many years, three, four years. And I always love the P.I. Noir vibes that come to life in her books. And this one was no different. So here's what this one's about. Private Investigator, Billy, Levine should be ecstatic. She's finally getting the cheating spouse cases she's always wanted. Nothing to do but sit back, snap incriminating photos, and get paid. Except Jeremy Yang is competing for work for his own PI firm, advertising himself as the man to get the job done, insert eye roll. He keeps swooping in and stealing prospective clients. Not to be out maneuvered,

Billy has offered her services to scored women everywhere. Their rivalry escalates when Billy and Jeremy are hired by an ultra wealthy couple on opposite sides of a corporate takeover. When the body start dropping, Billy and Jeremy will have to join forces if they are to come out unscathed. They can kill each other later. This one had conspiracies going on and cover-ups and competitions between Billy and Jeremy. And I just can't believe how much she packs into this third installation of Billy Levine. That being said, let's hear from Kimberly. If you've been listening, you guys know how much I love PI novels, noir, all of that. So I'm so excited this series just keeps going and I'm excited to talk with you about it. I'm excited to be here. Yeah.

So what I always want to know, especially in series, is was there anything different about writing this one than the other two. That's a great question. And I want to say no. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, that's not 100% true. I did decide in my third book to give a few scenes from the point of view of Billy's

grandfather, which I did not do in books one and two. Yes. I thought it would be fun. And I was like, everyone loves gramps. No one is going to hate this decision. No. And I was like, well, let's just put him a little bit. in the book. Let's put him more in the book. Like he's not in the, he's in the first two,

but now he is from his POV where Billy's not around. Yeah. And so that was different. And I gave myself license to do it because again, I figured if you read the books and you enjoy them, you love Gramps and you don't care. And if your introduction into Billy is make a killing, then you wouldn't think it's weird anyway. That was right. And luckily my editor's like, that's a good rationale. I agree with you. So that was the one different thing I wanted to do. because with the cases, I was like, if Gramps is doing one case and Billy's doing another and he has to explain things to her that the reader knows or doesn't know, I'm going to find that annoying. So I was like, I'll just have Gramps more in the book this time because I do love writing him. He's a lot of fun.

Oh, I love him so much. I know, right. I just want to meet him, IRL, but I'm just going to have to keep meeting him in the fictional world. this one I don't this isn't totally in the synopsis but if you feel like it's a spoiler we can take it out but this one actually kind of ties in like some some corporate some corporate I don't know toxicity that's not a spoiler we can talk about okay some corporate toxicity and some campus toxicity as well I thought those were both really intriguing to kind of bring together so was there anything that inspired you to kind of go that route with this book?

So the corporate toxicity, I was kind of inspired by America's hyper-consumerism, like our obsession with buying stuff to make ourselves feel better. Which I'm a human being. I wanted to explore it a little bit. I've never really worked in corporate America, my past life. Same. Yeah, I was a teacher as a librarian, definitely not corporate places. But I was sort of fascinated by like the corporate.

world in capitalism in general because I do feel like a lot of our current problems and our current political environment has a lot to do with our obsession with hyperconsumerism and how much crack costs. Yeah. Not essential. How much does just garbage from Amazon cost us? And I really got into gardening in the last few years. So I'm going outside a lot in nature and I'm worried about the environment constantly.

And just corporations do not care about human beings. Maybe Patagonia is it. Maybe. They don't. They don't care about human beings. They care about the bottom line. They're, you know, their shareholders, things like that. And they just don't care.

They can present. And we're seeing this real, right? Look at Target. Yes. So we're seeing this in real time. We're thinking these corporations care about people. They don't. Care about themselves and their profits.

And that's it. That's the reality of the situation. So I kind of wanted to explore that through this luxury travel company that I made up. And as for the campus toxicity, it just sort of went hand in hand a little bit. Like, there are toxic work environments. And sometimes a work environment you think wouldn't be toxic is toxic. Also, as a writer, it's just more fun and to play with a toxicity, that, you know, a toxic

culture of some kind than to just pretend like everything's great. Like, I just knew I could make things a lot more fun if I did that. But I usually had. something I wanted to say about corporate culture and hyper consumerism and insincers and and their effect and like TikTok shop and you know all my Instagrams now are just ads for things and how I get sucked into something and I'm like oh what is that and yes so I was like let's explore this a little bit more through crime fiction yes I'm laughing a little bit because I am wearing a shirt from TikTok shop right now so that was too perfect yeah

Um, it really is like the consumerism is just, it's just everywhere. And you do, like you do want to be able to kind of keep track of it. Like it's like you're saying, there are also versions of even buying from Amazon where like it's not necessarily like bad bad, but it's so easy to just overconsume. I even think about that sometimes when I'm just like grateful that like the books behind me here are book trophies. I am like a digital reader. And really, these are actually just all authors I've had on the podcast, basically. But sometimes I even think of it in that context where I'm like, people who are physical readers, like eventually. Like, I have 400 Kindle books. I don't know where those would go if I had physical books. So it is. It's just, it's hard figuring out

how much stuff you actually need versus wants. Like, all of it. of that but I also kind of loved the luxury like travel gear company because I get so many ads for those on Instagram too. Was that was there like a reason that you chose that industry too? Yes. So I've been going to writer conferences the last couple of years, which means I'm traveling by myself. I have three children to fly them anywhere because of fortune, but to fly me by myself to a city, it's not that big So I got into looking up different travel gear and like, ooh, should I get a new suitcase? And do I need a new backpack? And like, stuff I really don't need to go from point A to point B.

But I kept getting hyperfixated. I was on like the one bad subreddit. Like how could I spend my pride? I wound up spending a lot of like time and mental energy planning to get on an airplane. It was like. Yes. And that's what happened. And I was like, well, I'm a.

big believer in buy it once. Yeah. Buy it for life. Like that would be great. You know, I still have my Jansport from grad school. That thing is like 25 years old. That's so cool. It's in really good shape.

And when I was flying, I didn't want to bring a carry on because I didn't want to pay like, you know, extra fees and stuff. So all of a sudden I was like, oh, my son's soccer backpack is a really good backpack. It's got all these compartments. So then I just started shoving crap in there. And I was like, I don't need any fancy like. Right. Dagnah Dover. I don't even know how you pronounce it. Like, backpack. Like, just get in there and go.

And so I just, I was kind of hyper fixated on travel goods for a little while just because it, yeah, because what does travel goods represent? A promise of travel. Yes. Right? Like, it's so fun to go online and read all the reviews for a dumb backpack or watch YouTube videos of people putting like a week's worth of luggage into a jansport because of the, the promise of going somewhere. Yes. So I just sort of ran with that. that that was how it got in my head. That's such a great point. I literally hadn't been on a plane in over, I think it was 14 years and 14 years. And then I went to a book launch in New York in January. So I was going through the same thing because I also, I'm assuming you probably also just enjoy like

gathering information. Like the act of it itself is interesting and fun to me. I'm assuming so as a as a librarian as well um and so i was getting the same thing like all my ads were that direction and in some ways it does make sense it is like if you're really traveling a lot like the one i was thinking of there are these like carry-ons where like it's completely folds out you may have seen it even and then you're like even kind of like putting the clothing in the lining of it that then like makes the walls of it and i'm like it is really smart like if you were really traveling so often and you did want to save like, uh, like money and be able to just fit everything in there that you could. There are some like great solutions out there, but you're right. The other thing

it is, is like, um, why can't I think of the Kieran Kolkin, the movie he was in with Jesse Eisenberg. Oh, oh, where they go to, uh, the old country. Yes. There's, there's a point when they're in a train and they're talking about how like travel has become luxury and like it's actually like it's it's just insanely expensive and we're upcharging everything it's not even like super available to everyone and i think that's part of it too like sometimes there's this promise of like oh i'm someone who can travel and like i need this stuff so it falls into luxury so well basically i thought so i yeah and i was my biggest headache with making the company was like how much are luxury items like what could i think i made something there's a scene where billy gets some some swag

and i didn't make it cost enough according to my editor she's like i think it costs a lot more you're like oh my gosh seriously i was like okay yeah totally yeah but you're um just and it's become inaccessible too like if you have if you're going with others so i can travel low budget i like traveling I feel smug about it. I probably do too. It's mostly out of necessity. But sometimes I am like, look what I figured out. Also for me in particular, so I didn't do any writing conferences this year. I took a break in last year. One of the ways I could convince my spouse that I should be going to these conferences is I could I could say like not save because you're spending money. I go cheaply. I could share a room. I got I think I flew I think I flew to Tennessee. I flew to one city.

maybe it was Minneapolis on like 200 bucks it was something ridiculous wow yeah and i was like 200 and you know you but i got i got to drive to newark i got to like park the car anyway long story short like i am smug about it and yeah you know about how i travel so cheaply by myself but i'm not comfortable i don't travel comfortably at all right in can to san diego and i was like cursing myself for not getting extra leg room yeah i had no idea the plane would be this small for like i'm going east coast of west coast i'm going east coast of us say that's a like completely across the country. I was like Kim you were so cheap and it was like I was miserable I was like when is this

plane landing? Yeah. Yeah those long ones it's it's worth it for sure to have a little bit of extra room. I even said to the flight attend I'm like is this plane unusually small to go to yeah and he goes yes actually it is and you're like cool fine um the other another another in the book is that Jeremy is another PI who is trying to steal her clients, which just like adds a whole other like competition aspect. But then his story also, what's the word I'm thinking of? It ends up like crossing with hers too as well. But did you always know you're going to have her kind of like in a competition with another PI? I think when I introduced Jeremy in book two, I was like, like this is going to be fun. Yes. Make them a bit adversarial. Because I find that to be a fun trope when I read any genre is an adversary.

One that's worthy of you. Yeah. So when I introduced Jeremy, I was like he'll be a bit adversarial. First of all, I like writing their banter. Yes. I do enjoy their ban. You too. I like that she exasperates them.

Like he's not charmed by her. Yeah. I'm charmed. by him not being charmed by her. Yes. I find Jeremy charming because he's not charmed by her. Yes. So I don't, I think definitely when I introduced him, I was like, oh, I was like, I have an

idea for this guy and I know what I want to do. So I think when I finished book two, you know, I knew that them having to square off a bit was going to be my book three. How do that at the end of book two, I probably wasn't 100% sure until I started drafting make a killing. But I was like, all right, this is how I'll do it. I did want them to somehow combine forces a little bit. Yeah. Also part of the trope. Like they can't be budding heads the whole time. It becomes too tense. Totally. Yeah, I think we talked about it last year too because I loved their banter in that first book too. I was like, this is just too much fun. I enjoy myself.

So I was like, oh, yeah. You can feel it in their scenes. So it also kind of we touched on like the corporate toxicity, stuff like that. So it's also, the story is also kind of taking a look at like what is justice, kind of like institutional silencing, and then also whistleblowers. So did you do any research into kind of like any of that? Not really. I'm the responsible answer. We're like, yes. Right. Now. Um, because some, we do hear about it enough that I totally understand. You almost don't need to. There's like laws and rules about whistleblowing, but you know what it was? You hear so much about how things get buried, you know, so how major issues don't come to, like, you're like,

how do nobody talk about this for so long? Right. It could be anything. The Me Too movement's a good example of that where, you know, or there's just famous celebrities. Let's forget, like, Harvey Weinstein would be like, sometimes there's people and be like, people have been talking about how awful this person's been forever. But I'm like, yeah, but it'll only come to the surface way later. Yeah. And I always think that really interesting. Like, how does this stuff stay quiet?

I know. So quiet. Yeah. So I guess in my fictional world, I was like, Well, there's probably an explanation for that. You know, pressing it with money. Yeah. With threats.

People are not wanting to like, you know, people just wanting to move on. Like, I just don't want to deal with it anymore. I don't want to. Yeah. And that's really, you know, we think in the age you live in with like just our access of technology and information and viral and all that stuff, that the stuff would get exposed more and it just doesn't. Yeah. And maybe it is, maybe now that we're kind of in the internet age, maybe that's,

Maybe that's why there are. Maybe that's why Harvey Weinstein's really came out. Maybe that's why P. Diddy's stuff is coming out. But yeah, like when you hear just decades of this, you're like, wow, that's a little scary. You know Neil Damon. That was like a big wake-up call to the literary world. Yes. And people are surprised.

And I'm a huge Tori Amos fan. I love this. Mm-hmm. She was best friends with Neil Gaiman. Wow. I was talking to another friend. I was like, did she be surprised? out a statement? I feel like she would have, and she said she didn't know the side of him or something.

And sometimes I don't believe that. I just wonder. I know. It's kind of hard to you because it's kind of, that's like reminding me of like, like, uh, like Teresa Judeyce for anyone who doesn't know, like going to prison. In some ways, she really could have just been, sorry, my hiccups are attacking me. She really could have just been signing what uh joe put in front of her or maybe she did know we don't know but it's like you even see that happen with spouses and i'm like you weren't aware of anything though there have been oh who just the author oh very famous author who it found out just she just she's dead now she just died oh why am i blanking on all names my brain keeps blinking for me today mid 40s but you know her daughter

was sexually abused by the author's husband and it was you know she just hit it you know she didn't she didn't do anything she didn't leave the man she didn't protect her kids she just sort of denied in and hit it and her daughter's and we don't you find out about we find out about that through the daughter after the author died and google it afterwards and think about it yeah yeah but you know it's a it's a huge blow to people who admire the work too because it changes everything think j k rowling is a great example right yes like she's got it there's a new harry potter show and now she's saying like her proceeds she's going to use to fight and like fight against trans rights like nobody wants to support her doing that and why is she so bothered by it like let it go weird to me like

why what like why is she obsessed with this issue it's like i won't be a horrible human being as vocally as I can. I do, so this brings me to another point about the book. Yeah. I do think there comes a point where you have so much money. And people have been telling you, now she didn't even grow up rich. So she gained her well, way later, right? But the same thing with like Elon and Bezos and all these billionaires. They have no idea what reality is anymore. Right. Think because they have billions of that the minute they open their mouth to say something, it does become news. It does. Elon showed up, you know, with a black eye.

Now, he says his five-year-old at the White House. It's five-year-old, you know. Yeah. That's a very possible situation. It is. Who cares? But the point is, it's news. Yes.

His kid could have accidentally in him in the face. We all have children their limbs are white. Right. Yeah, fine, whatever. And that, but that's news. The minute they tweet something, they post something, they blank funny. it's news and because everything a freaking billionaire says is news they think their their opinions no matter how bad they are are worth are valuable yes and they're not as we all know and so i think

she's just like she she thinks i have all this money in power ha ha i'm going to put it towards this terrible cause you know that i for so much weird reason I'm hung up on. Right. And you're all going to just deal with it because I have all this power because I have all this money. Yeah. And there's a large part of the population that's like they kind of either are not aware of her being that way or they're just like, it's just Harry Potter though. I'm still going to enjoy it. And I'm like, it's hard to enjoy it now. I mean, there's definitely a point where the art artists diverge.

That's the hard part, yeah. Tolkien and the Hobbit, right? Tolkien is a bit anti-Semitic. I don't really know specifically in how much. So at some point, they divest, I think. But J.K. Rowling is still alive. Harry Potter is still fairly recent. And it's very hard to divest her right now.

Maybe in half years when she's long gone, you know, descendants will be like, oh, Harry Potter. And did you know, Anta? You know, J.K. Rowling was a huge. huge transphobe and it's like yes i mean we'll all know it because you know guys on the internet yeah but this is this is a hard word i mean i don't i don't i don't know what's it going to be on HBO i don't even get it i can't remember yeah something i'm curious though and now i'm annoyed i'm like i can't watch it right there's a there's an interesting book that my friend highly

sutton put on my radar called monsters a fan's dilemma and it kind of explores this so i I think eventually that's going to be, it's going to be one of my next, like, audio books for my dog walks. Because it is. You're just like, what do you do with this? Both male and female. We were talking about JK Rowling as well. Yeah. So, yeah, if anyone's interested, that might be interesting to you as well.

I'll definitely check it out because I feel like we're really in that moment now. Yes. I mean, long ago, people did not find this stuff out. Right. It died. And then people started digging in and looking at memoirs and interviews and interviews. he was like you know this guy wrote the stuff and if you're letters he was like this and you're like yeah like growing up as a kid like as a kid henry ford and charles limburg american heroes then you're like

they're raging anti-semites we didn't learn that as kids right now the stuff is really accessible we kind of know we can make decisions based on it yeah yeah so much to tackle there um but uh then then with this story we start off with a journalist named Allen, who basically kind of gets run off the road. And then his sister reaches out to Billy to be like, I just, this seems suspicious. Can you look into it? And I've always wondered, because, like,

he is an integral part of the story, even though for most of the story, he is deceased. Do you do any, like, character work with, like, the character who's the main part of the case i don't i don't sit there i'm sure i jot down notes and things like that don't i don't do major character write-ups i know some people who do yeah who does and i don't know why maybe i just picture them in my head i kind of get who they are and i can work right it's been actually pretty pretty good the it's funny bring that up because when i struggle to write a scene it's

usually because I don't know the character well enough. Oh, okay. I'm like, why can't write the seat? Because I don't know who this person is. I don't know what they're, like, I don't know what happened to them. I don't know anything. Just wanted to, you know, get some words down on the page. Right.

But Alan sort of, he felt very real from the beginning. I was, you know, picturing him pretty easily. So I didn't have to do character work. I had to. So originally when I, when I was brainstorming, make a killing. I'm trying there are two cases that intertwine and I want of them the the corporate case was what I get solidified first I was like I really want to talk about corporate toxicity yeah and then I was like but I need I have to figure out how to like tie in this other event and then

once I start doing them like well how do I do that and could I who could be connected and blah blah, blah. So that's what happened in that case. And then I was like, you know, because for both, for all three books, there are sort of, I call a chapter one, it's really cool. Where we get insight into the victims. Yeah. A little bit. So, um, I had a lot of fun, oddly doing that in the second book, devil in profile, because I wrote a scene through the eyes of a horrible old man. Yeah. He was terrible. A horrible, you know at the minute you open the book, the first scene. Yeah. He's terrible.

And writing him was, it wasn't fun per se, but it wasn't like, right. I don't, it wasn't, fun's not the right word. It was sinister. And for some reason it was not hard to do. I don't know why. I was like, let's say something about me. But like, because he was kind of awful, it was everybody's reaction to him. That was actually the more enjoyable.

part to the storytelling but yeah you know there's just something about that first scene where you get insight into this person like why should i care that they're they're dead yeah even if they're not a good person why should i care that they're dead so right because it's going to affect billy right the whole yeah the whole rest of the book for sure her so yeah with uh with the college portion of it kentwell it it really had its own kind of of like atmosphere like it actually even felt very which I guess most colleges are kind of insular and so it's kind of easy to get into like a hive mind about protecting the people or not talking about certain stuff uh was there anything you did to kind of like develop

that setting it it's almost a character itself so Kentwell is obviously it's not real but I based off of the college I went to in New Jersey which is called oh nice New Jersey. I shouldn't say I base it. The campus itself, the way I envision it, is just the only college, one of the only colleges I've known is TCC. Right. So when I'm thinking of dorm rooms, I'm picturing the dorm rooms at TC&J when I was there. Yeah. And so I can kind of get that vibe down, I think, pretty good, because I just remember college. Just you remember things. Remember your Oh, yeah. And, you know, the smells of permeate, you know, and in the first book, and Death of a Dancing Queen,

Billy goes to Kentwell and interviews people. And in the dorm rooms, like I just I just made it my freshman dorm. I remember people making popcorn in their microwaves and it like stinging up the entire floor. And so a lot of that stuff like it doesn't really leave you. So it's a good sensory like it. Yeah. It's fun to write too. It would be it would be cool to do a book that's just like set at Kentwell and see what I could conjure up. I'll put it in the vault. Yes. I think there's a lot.

Because I bring it into the story, but it's not like 100% set there. But, and then some of the things I'm sure I mess up on because I, you know, it's probably a lot more techy now to get into rooms and stuff. There's probably an app on your phone. True. Into a dorm. I have no idea.

I had to. I don't either. I had to like put my card in the reader. Yeah. And I think. key for my actual dorm door. Like, sure now there's like buttons or a, you know, probably.

There's got to be an app. I would assume so. And the other thing that it touches on while we're on campus is how prominent hazing is, which is like kind of an interesting subject at large because it's something that in some ways our culture is like, that's just what it's like in Greek life. like that has to happen. I'm using air quotes if you're not watching. Um, but obviously there are versions of it that are like just, you know, like, oh, you have to drive the seniors places. It's like the benign one I can think of from college. There's like that. And then there's like really bullying someone or putting them in danger and all of that. So was there something about hazing

in general that was like intriguing to you to bring into this story? that's a good question i think i used the hazing for a plot point in particular i was not a part of my husband me neither though yeah he was part of greek life at college and he would tell me stories that he would send the pledges to philly to get him a cheese steak that's insane and he but what makes him more insane is he went to college in hoboken new jersey so hoboken to philly is not like an errand it's no like at three in the morning i'm like that and is the sandwich still good. Like, you're insane.

That's insane. I don't want my kid to ever do that. Like, what if something happened? Like, you're nuts. But that was their level of hazing. Like, it really, you know, it wasn't a physical thing. It was, I remember when I was in college, I was an editor for the student newspaper, and I needed something from one of my writers.

And I needed it ASAP. And he's like, I can't get it. to you until so-and-so comes and meets me first. I said, that doesn't make any sense. Get your ass over here. And he's like, I have to wait for an escort. I'm like, what, WTF? It was part of the, it was part of the pledging. He had a wait to be escorted by another pledge to come to my office to give me paper. I mean, we're talking about, you know, 1999. Right. And I just remember being furious. So like, it's stupid stuff like that. Like, yeah, I find to be absurd because, one, it affected me. Two, it's just so dumb, I can't even.

But this is why I'm not in Greek life. So I think of, we think of hazing, like, it's physical harm. A lot of the time, things just get out of hand. And that's kind of, like, it has, it has fallen out of favor because it's cool. Colleges are supposed to be, like, really on top of the stuff. And we have phones that we can record heinous things happening. and then like there are consequences for that and stuff like that right so i mean bullying hasn't really died it's called trolling and then i was totally of what is new forms of bullying

hmm that was like i and i don't think i was trying to get i'm like what would somebody do to be trolling but in a weird uncomfortable like i was trying to figure that out and i struggled a bit with that particular part i'm like is my imagination she's touching the way it needs to because i couldn't be yeah but another kind of parallel i thought was interesting because we talked about with uh the company vhg um and the college we talk about consumerism or kind of capitalism and in with the business but also a lot of our colleges have are just as much a part of capitalism at this point so i thought it was interesting pairing those two together because actually both both of them really function as like institutions that are like, this is how things are done.

And kind of like we protect our own. Were you thinking about that? Or did that just kind of like happen since you included both? I did not actively. So you just gave me something to think about that I thought about. You can tell people in other interviews that you did. But actually, you make a really good point. So I have college campuses now have franchises on it.

You can go to Starbucks. You know, you can play in a way. I know when I was a grad student at Rutgers, like, I could go and get fast food right on campus. Yeah. We have, like, multiple chick filets. Yeah. So that consumerism, capitalistic, you know, reach is still on college campuses. And also college is a fortune.

It's just an expensive undertaking. And then we can talk about predatory loans and all that stuff. I mean, good, we're not going to. But so they naturally really go hand in hand. And they're so much influence. of students on each other in terms of like what you have just like in high school when I went to college I came with nothing because I didn't know what to bring because there was no internet you know right but there wasn't it wasn't like there was a subreddit for me to go like what should I bring

and I get to college and I see all these kids and they all have these they're called husband pillows do you know what they are or are these the like body pillows no maybe they have a different name they're almost like pillows you put behind you with like little arms out oh yes kind of like a chair like half of a chair everyone had one i've never seen one before i was like oh i just put my pillow up against the headboard of the wall like yeah we just that's just you know or everybody came with posters i didn't even think about posters or yeah i was like and you could be like kim you didn't think of anything i really didn't i there just wasn't any way to prepare me um it was a good point TV and a fridge. That's what I need. I need to eat. Yeah. But like everybody had these

rain pants, these like athletic swishy pants we called. I didn't own a pair. I wasn't in athletics. I never, you were fantastic. But I was like, mom, I need this. Mom, I need that. Everybody has these things. And yeah, you know, you're sort of surrounded by people, but it was like an unwritten rule that everybody had to eat and I didn't. But you, you just, and I'm sure I know there's that reality show about the University of Alabama, pledged sorority girls. Oh my gosh. So just to even see, you know, that in order to get into these sororities of having to buy in. Yeah, you have to have Chanel. Right. Like all kinds of stuff. I'm just like, I just don't care. I don't care. I didn't, I'm not saying it does sound cool. I've just never cared about like what logo was on something. But yeah,

TikToks during Alabama Rush, like, I hope they're happy and maybe they really are happy. But they make me sad when I see them. So there's a really good point. So this hyper consumerism that I see on TikTok that I see on Instagram that I'm still a part of in many ways. Depresses the hell out of everything. Yeah. If I're unboxing videos, getting five bags to review, what are you in the excess?

Where is it going to go? Is it going to sit in a landfill? Like, I think about this stuff a lot. Yeah. Especially because I like to be outside as much as possible. Yeah. I don't buy books anymore. I, and I, as an author, like, I go to the library.

I want to the library. And the library will buy the book. And then the library will let a bunch of other people read the book. That's what I do. So that I don't physically have things because I can't, I'm nervous about all the stuff I have now. I get that. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's just, it's harder to keep your house clean. That's like the other thing. And I can't get rid of stuff very easily. Yeah. Like Facebook marketplace. I'm constantly, I live in a rural area. And even just trying to offload your stuff doesn't work very well.

Yeah. You know, so. Yeah. You don't want to accumulate too much. I'm with you on that. Well, what have you been reading from the library? That's a good transition. Okay.

things that I have on currently I'm I write a book called the eights by so these are not all crime fiction uh the a by joanna miller historical fiction I had the library buy it for me it's about the first matriculating class of women from Oxford University wow it is fiction it's very beautifully written I enjoyed the help out of it oh know what I'm reading that you probably did you watch dairy girls uh yes Okay, okay. So murder at Gull's Nest by a kid, last name kid, first name blanking on. It's upstairs and I'm reading it from the library. The audio book is read by the actress who plays Sister Michael from Derry. Oh, nice. And that is set in 1954, like an ocean seaside community in England. And Nora Breen is the main character and she is a nun, a former nun. She left a order to go find her friend.

Nice. But the audio book, which I'm reading the book book, is narrated by, I think it's Chavon something, but I'm blanking on her last name. Okay. From Barry Girl. So if you love that show and you love her voice and you just want her to say things like, Claire, you will go far in life, but you will not be willing. I would recommend that.

That's very good. Yeah. What else have I been reading? Those are two good ones. I really enjoyed that. I've been reading historical fiction because I just wrote a draft of a historical novel set. I remember I think we talked about it last year. I finished it.

Good for you. Thank you. So if anybody wants to send me good vibes. Because it's hard to sell books. It's still hard. Even when you have them published, it's still hard to get books sold in general. Especially in another genre. It's still crime fiction.

It's just historical. Oh, that's good. but publishing is a tough industry any art industry is but publishing in particular can be quite tough yeah that's with my agent i won't see anything back for you know several weeks yeah and that's i'll be curious to hear what her thoughts are i'm always curious uh-huh oh yeah you're always terrified a little i got to mean right scared but curious but totally so i've been reading a lot of historical fiction just to keep me like in that group what have I read oh I was I know you always ask and then you're like what have I read I've been reading I have to go I wish my library count would show

the books have checked out oh yeah doesn't that would be helpful that's okay those are two good ones yeah well I just read this was kind of historical fiction but it's a blend I just read, we don't talk about Carol, which is about a woman whose grandma passes and she goes back to her house and finds this picture of someone who really looks like her. And she ends up finding out that she has an aunt that we don't talk about Carol. No one talked about her because she ran away in the 1960s in North Carolina. At least that's what her grandma said was that she ran away. but then the main character, Sidney, realizes there were six black girls who went missing over like the course of a couple of years during that time.

And so she gets really into investigating and figuring out what actually happened to this aunt that she never knew. So it's definitely like it, most of it takes place, like in present times. But you also are going kind of back and forth. And it's like an intergenerational family mystery. I like those family secret books. Yeah. It's a really good version of it. I loved it.

I really enjoyed it. And now I'm reading the Medusa Protocol, which is the second in Rob Hart's Assassins Anonymous series. So it's like a spy thriller. It's assassins who aren't killing. So it's kind of not. But that's like the closest genre I can basically compare it to. So I've kind of been all over this month, too. It's fun.

I sometimes like I also have on my nightstand the third book in the Emily Wilde series this is not fiction she's it's historical fantasy about they're called dryadologists that's like they study fairies and fairy kingdoms it's like Holly Black was more academic okay then that would be this and it's been a great series I'm on a third book. So and then Maggie Steve Fawter's book comes out. I think it's just when mine does. I, I pre-ordered the hell out of that one. The followers, because I'm a big Maggie Steve Futter fan. Yeah. And so I just pre-ordered that. And I pre-ordered the McHaron book, the new versus Slauerhaus book, which won't be out to fall, I think. Yeah. And then I have also on my nice stand that I everyone, speaking of out of John Ritaly. John Greens, everything is tuberculosis.

Oh my gosh. I've been thinking about listening to that one. I'm like this is such a fascinating concept he's and he he must do the audio book I have to imagine yeah I would imagine so I love the Greens I love John Green's work and um his writing is so good even when it's about something where you're like this is terrible yeah yeah you're totally captain King like he's really good about it and I know I've read 8,000 books and I literally and blanking on all of them because I'm not I can't even like look up at my oh well what other the rocks I see the god in the god of the woods did you read that Liz Moore I did read that last year I loved it did you like it yeah it was a little slow for me but I I'm known for not not being a

slow burn person so but I liked it overall right so I find her writing to be yeah really good so it is I am very for so when a writer is a really good writer yeah you'll find their work boring right but i will go and read bad reviews of books i love yeah yeah you show myself that you one you cannot please everybody and you cannot in their opinions yes i'm like so-and-so hated this book right plenty of people hated it i was like uh you can't right so if the writing like if the writing is like really exceptional i I don't get bored because I think what I wound up doing is digesting those sentences. How did they do this?

Because I read Northwoods by Daniel Mason too. Not crime fiction. Yeah. Intriguing. And I could see how people could say it was slow, but the writing was so good. I just didn't care. Yeah. I get that.

I don't know why I just, I need things to move along. I don't believe in general. So I just. My big thing when I finish a draft is, is this boring. Right. Or at any point. Like I don't, yeah, I do, I mean, sure, I'm a writer. When people say, this was beautifully written, love your writing, I'm beaming. But if she was like, I couldn't put this down, that's it. Game movie. Yeah. That's how I feel. Well, that's how I feel about your books. That's why I love, that's why I love Billy. And I'm guessing by the ending, you left it open to the

possibility, but you never know if there'll be another one, right? As of now, it's interesting. There's always Billy books in my head. Right. So I always have story ideas. So I'm only contracted for the three. Okay. So I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah.

Really, my agent said this and she made a great point. She's like, you just don't know what's going to happen with the series. Yeah. For all you know, the books could catch on like fire and then they're like, we want more. That happened to McHaron. Oh, yeah. But sometimes a series can find six. later and you know there's definitely more demand there's demand for more books yeah totally but it really

just depends mm-hmm publisher what happens i haven't heard anything published and uh we'll just see but i definitely more story ideas like tons of so if they're like kim we want a fourth book well kim's on it so i can we on it well anyone like i said if you love p i i if you love kind of noir like all of that go get go get this whole series if you haven't read the whole series and then hopefully we will just have tons of people asking for a fourth one yeah that would be lovely i'll take yeah where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything i've sort of limited my social meeting out to pretty much instagram it's good garnick geratano but if you google me he'll find my website and they'll tell you yeah um yeah i've just been sticking to

Instagram. I've been overwhelmed by social media. I don't know about you. It's okay. Yeah. I read a lot and I lurk a lot like on threads or blue sky. Yeah. I've been enjoying threads. I like threads. Yeah. I find I do better if I'm part of a conversation. If I'm just posting something, I don't really get to get a weird traction on one thread. I had like 5,000 likes. I was like, what the hell is now? I know, but I um, I've gotten to this weird point where I'm I'm at maybe just, you know, I'm in my mid-40s. I'm like, nobody needs to hear my opinion on this. Right.

That's my new thing. Nobody wants my opinion on this. Like, I don't need to be one of a bazillion voices to the conversation anymore. Right. Not because I don't agree with people. I'm not on your side. Like, all of that. I just don't think they need to hear for me about things that, I don't know.

That's how I feel lately. I get it. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah, well, I will put those links in the show notes. So everyone can go see when you do have some things to share. I do videos. Sometimes I'll do some videos on Instagram and you can kind of get an idea of what I'm curious about at the moment.

Yeah. Well, hopefully you'll be back in a year with some kind of book. We'll just see. Yes, well, publishing works at a glacial speed. So who that knows. Yes, it might be two years. But hopefully there's a future one. Thank you.