Bookwild - Lauren Ling Brown's Society of Lies: Secret Societies, Complex Sister Relationships and Dark Academia

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

This week, I talk with Lauren Ling Brown about her debut dark academia thriller Society of Lies!  We dive into the inspiration for the idea, the moral dilemma at its core, and how her personal experiences influenced the novel.Society of Lies SynopsisMaya has returned to Princeton for her college reunion—it’s been a decade since she graduated, and she is looking forward to seeing old faces and reminiscing about her time there. This visit is special because Maya will also be attending the graduation of her little sister, Naomi.But what should have been a dream weekend becomes Maya’s worst nightmare when she receives the news that Naomi is dead. The police are calling it an accident, but Maya suspects that there is more to the story than they are letting on.As Maya pieces together what happened in the months leading up to her sister’s death, she begins to realize how much Naomi hid from her. Despite Maya’s warnings, Naomi had joined Sterling Club, the most exclusive social club on campus—the same one Maya belonged to. And if she had to guess, Naomi was likely tapped for the secret society within it.The more Maya uncovers, the more terrified she becomes that Naomi’s decision to follow in her footsteps might have been what got her killed. Because Maya’s time at Princeton wasn’t as wonderful as she’d always made it seem—after all, her sister wasn’t the first young woman to turn up dead. Now every clue is leading Maya back to the past . . . and to the secret she’s kept all these years. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

It started with the idea of how far Maya would go to belong. So Maya's the older sister. And she has this moral dilemma, this choice, where she could either help her sister and take a golden ticket that Greystone Society, the Secret Society, hands her, like giving her a leg up in the world. Or she could stick to her morals and do what she thinks is right once she realizes that the society is doing something terrible to someone else. This week I got to talk with Lauren Ling Brown about her debut Dark Academia Thriller,

Society of Lies. I feel like this interview is coming at the perfect time because fall definitely equals dark academia to a lot of us. So this is a perfect book for you to pick up if that's what you're looking for. Here's what it's about. Maya has returned to Princeton for her college reunion. It's been a decade since she graduated, and she is looking forward to seeing old faces and reminiscing about her time there. This visit is special because Maya will also be attending the graduation of her little sister, Naomi.

But what should have been a dream weekend becomes Maya's worst nightmare when she receives the news that Naomi is dead. The police are calling it an accident, but Maya suspects that there is more to the story than they are letting on. As Maya pieces together what happened in the months leading up to her sister's death, she begins to realize how much Naomi hid from her. Despite Maya's warnings, Naomi had joined Sterling Club, the most exclusive social club on campus, the same when Maya belonged to. And if she had to guess, Naomi was likely tapped for the secret society within it. The more Maya uncovers, the more terrified she becomes, that Naomi's decision to follow in her footsteps might have been what got her killed. Because Maya's time at Princeton isn't as wonderful as she'd always made it seem. After all, her sister wasn't the first young

women to turn up dead. Now every clue is leading Maya back to the past and to the secret she's kept all these years. This is so fun. It obviously has the dark academia element. It has the secret societies element. And I got to talk with Lauren about how she developed that, how this story came into existence and some of her personal experiences that she put it into this book. So I can't wait for you guys to hear from her. Let's get into it. So before we dive into Society of Lies, I did want to get to know a little bit about you first. So when did you know you wanted to write a book or when were you like, I think I want to be an author? I think I always wanted to be an author in the back of my mind, but I just thought it was this far-off dream and I never thought it was possible.

So I grew up reading. My mom would take my sister and I to the library and we had our own. own little library cards and it was really cute and then we also had a bunk bed so I'd be in the top bunk and she'd be in the bottom bunk and we'd both be like reading books together so I grew up yeah so I did grow up like loving to read and then I took my first creative writing class in college and that's when I really fell in love with fiction writing and I wrote so I started writing short stories and screenplays and then got into novel writing over the pandemic starting in 2019 nice how did so i know that you have in the mfa in film production and uh kind of a focus in screenwriting so how did like how did that knowledge translate into writing fiction novels

Yeah, I think I started writing screenplays. So the background in screenwriting meant that when I first started writing novels, it sort of came out more like a screenplay than a novel. So it was just like a longer dialogue-heavy screenplay with not enough interiority. So as I started writing more, Society of Lives is actually my third book that I've written. And so I became better at, you know, doing what novels do so well in general, just like giving the character more of an interior world. But I think still when I start to write a scene, I kind of approach it as like if I'm editing a film or a documentary where I want to see like what's happening and know when to come into the scene and where to cut. and that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I have heard, I've talked to a couple of people who've done screenwriting before. They wrote. And I think Susan Walter said the same thing where she was just like, dialogue, dialogue, dialogue, dialogue, dialogue. Like, I had to like think more about being in the character's mind. So that makes sense.

How did your writing process develop as you wrote, as you mentioned you've written a few books? how does your writing process look like? So I so badly want to be a plotter, but it always changes. Like it starts with a, I have this outline that's like 20 to 30 pages, and I'm usually working on it for a year or as long as possible. And it has all the characters' backstories, and it has like complicated plot twists and all these threads. And then I start writing the book, and it just goes off of the race.

and it's never what I had planned. I don't know. What's your experience? Are you a plotter? I know that you write too. Well, yes, I am. I am trying to finish my first story ever. I had an interesting experience with it where I assumed that I would be a plotter.

And so I kind of like forced myself to do that a little bit. I read Story Genius and Save the Cap. those are great. And story genius, I feel like helps me really understand the emotional through line. Like that, it really helps me understand how you really want that. And then the external kind of reflects the change. So that helped me a lot with understanding that. And then, but then I was still like, I think I want a little more structure because in other areas of my life I tend to. So that's when I read Save the Cap, which I thought was so helpful seeing like, all of those plot beats even if you don't necessarily do all of them at the exact percentage that it recommends um so then i got really obsessed with like i have to i need to have a complete

outline and so i was doing that and it ended up like keeping me from just starting so i'm kind of like some hybrid is what i've learned kind of just this year um is like i know my like who you someone called it tent post like you know or tent pole you like know the main things you want to hit and so like i have the main things i want to hit but then i was finding i did better just like writing the in-between scenes without like over plotting it yeah i'm exactly the same way like knowing the major beats and the turns of the story without overprescribing what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. It kind of helped. I did a, I did a challenge with Hally Sutton in June. I love her. I know. She's amazing. Everybody loves her. If anyone doesn't like her, it's their

problem. But we did like a, it was 14 days where you just wrote a thousand words every day, no matter what. And it was like doing it that way is what made me realize, like, oh, I don't have to just overly plan. Like, I can sit down and be like, what do I need to convey with this scene? And then, then it comes to me. So it's been interesting. Yeah. So with society lies, this is definitely a thriller and definitely has dark academia vibes. Was there something that drew you to writing thrillers? And like, have you always been a fan of dark academia? I've always been. definitely been a mystery fan because I like figuring out the puzzles and the clues along with the

character. I read like from the mixed files of Mrs. Basilie Frankweiler. I don't know if you know that one. Oh good. I love that one, that book as a kid and just all kinds of different mysteries growing up. And so I think that's why I gravitated towards that genre. But dark academia, I sort of, my first two books that I wrote were different types of thrillers. One was a domestic thriller. One was a thriller about sisters. And then I moved towards Dark Academia because it was a time in my life where I felt like I was really struggling and also coming into who I really was as a person and understanding myself more. So I wanted to set it during that kind of time period.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think when I talked to Ashley Winstead a few years ago about in my dreams I hold a knife, she was saying something similar about like it's kind of a good time in life to set a thriller because of like what you're saying. Like most people aren't completely sure who they are. You're a little more easily influenced. Like you might not notice something for,

you might not notice that something's negative as quickly as you would later on in your life. So I love Rieke and Dark Academia. Was that the main inspiration for this story? Was it kind of like you wanted to write something around that time of your life? Or did you have like a plot idea that came to you? Yeah. So it started actually as a screenplay about 10 years ago. And it was also about an outsider who didn't feel like they fit in,

getting involved in a corrupt secret society. but the novel version that came out of the pandemic was it started with the idea of how far Maya would go to belong. So Maya is the older sister and she has this moral dilemma, this choice where she could either help her sister and take a golden ticket that Greystone Society, the Secret Society, hands her like giving her a leg up in the world. or she could stick to her morals and do what she thinks is right once she realizes that the society is doing something terrible to someone else. So it's that struggle between wanting to help your own family and help yourself and sort of take the easy way versus maybe what you should do. Yeah, yeah. That comes through very much in the book. And you're like, even as the reader, you're like, what would.

I do. Like it's hard to even tell like would you do the quote unquote right thing. Would you like help yourself if that felt like the only way that you really could get ahead in certain ways. So it's kind of the concept was what was the idea for you mostly. Yeah. And then the other layers definitely came later were built on top of that initial moral dilemma. So the sisters were inspired definitely by my experience being an older sister and then by different points in my own life. Like I think of Naomi as more of who I am now, even though Naomi's the younger sister. She's just more confident and, you know, she's happy with who she is.

she is trying to do the right thing. I think of her as kind of like the hero of the story. And then Maya is more insecure and still trying to figure things out. Yeah. Yeah. I know in your acknowledgments too that you mentioned that you had a wonderful time at Princeton. So this wasn't necessarily reflective of your experience there. But how did like how did your experience there help?

or inform writing a thriller that takes place there. Yeah. So one of the things in my author's note that is at the very end of the book is that this story could take place at any university, at any big institution where a corrupt individual and someone with their own agenda sort of has followers and people supporting him and allowing him to get away with bad things. So it's really not a reflection of the school.

It's a thriller. It's fiction. I just really want people to know that there are so many good people and hardworking, kind, honest people there, who I know personally. But going there, I really felt like I could draw from my experience as a multiracial, black and Chinese woman. and also from the campus itself, because the campus is beautiful. It has this gothic architecture and libraries. And I was an English major there, and we just, you know, we're in these incredible classrooms with reading books

and, you know, studying literature all day. And it was just a really cool experience in that way. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. I'm sure it's like, because sometimes like thinking of a whole entire fictional world, like setting wise is so much to come up with. So it probably like helps to just kind of like always already have the setting kind of solidified in your mind. Yeah. For me, it's harder if I haven't been to a place to write about it. So I like to at least visit and hopefully spend a significant amount of time wherever I'm writing about. Yeah. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Book Wild, and if you are, could I ask you a favor? Could you go and rate and review this podcast and whatever platform you're listening? Ratings and reviews make the biggest difference in discoverability of the podcast, and I definitely want to find all of our fellow thriller readers out there. So if you could go rate the podcast and leave a short review, that would make a huge difference. Thank you. And let's get back to the show. The other thing that I loved about it, because I love this in almost any book, is that there are two different timelines.

Did you write like chronologically, like did you write what would have happened like on a calendar, that kind of order, or did you write in the order that the book is in alternating? That's a really good question. It started with Maya's perspective, the older sister, so it was just past and present.

So Maya in the present trying to solve her younger sister's death. And then Maya, in the past, with this secret that she had related to the secret society that she was in. And then my editor, Hillary, Tiemann, and also my agent, Alexandra, wanted me to bring the younger sister more into the book. And that I just thought was a really great idea. So we added the younger sister Naomi's perspective later during the revision process. And this book went through so many drafts. I can't even tell you. I mean, I'm sure that happens with all, like, tons of books.

But I did, it did help. Like, I was, no, you know from the synopsis that Naomi ends up murdered. I was like, wait, am I about to give a spoiler? I was, sometimes I'm like so sad when I'm like in their perspective because I like know where it's headed. Right. But I also loved getting to have her. perspective, like not just Maya figuring it out. But you kind of mentioned earlier, you were a little bit inspired to write about sisters,

since you have a sister as well. But that, that dynamic between the two of them was really, like, thought provoking and they were both really distinct as characters. And what I thought was kind of cool that you played with, too, is like sometimes Maya would be doing something that, like, in her mind really was. for Naomi's good and Naomi would be interpreting it a totally different way. So how did you approach kind of like having them be very separate characters where they even kind of misinterpret each other?

Yeah. So my sister is three and a half years younger than me. And we were really close growing up and we still are now. But there was a period after college where we moved to different cities and just grew apart. And we're trying to have, you know, phone conversations where maybe I would give advice and I shouldn't because she's now an adult you know but I just I just remember that feeling of like disconnect and wanting to be closer than we were at the time and then she was really there for me over the pandemic when I had a tough time in my own life and so that feeling of

like coming together as well and so I just really wanted to show kind of the complex nature of being a sister and caring so much about someone but not always like having the words for it maybe you don't come from a family that always says I love you or gives hugs like all the time and so so yeah I definitely thought a lot about my sister while writing those the two Maya and Naomi's relationship yeah yeah you could feel the sisterly tension for sure but they kind of both still wanted the best for each other and for themselves, but like sometimes that's still tricky to navigate for the most part. The book also really explores how alienating or like how uniquely isolating it can feel to feel like you like come from two different cultures,

but you're not necessarily 100% one or 100% the other. So you kind of live in a middle space. So were you writing from like some of your experiences with that as well? Yeah, definitely. So my mom is Chinese and she's originally from Hong Kong and my dad is African American and he's from Minnesota. But they, growing up biracial, I just definitely didn't feel like I fit in anywhere, especially in high school and at a young age. And so it was really important to me to draw from that authentic experience in a lot of the microaggressions or things to do with race and identity in the book are definitely drawn from a true place of things that happened to me or to my family.

And I just find it interesting to sort of put those things in the thriller mystery genre and see if people are okay. with, you know, like ready for that and ready to discuss, like, deep kind of difficult subjects. So that's, that was my goal, is to combine the entertaining thriller with, with deeper, real issues. Mm-hmm. That's my favorite in thrillers when it can do both. So I'm sure that's why I loved it. It's a big part of why I loved it. one of the other moral kind of quandaries at the center of it that we've kind of talked about

is Maya at first, since she was older on, first is kind of presented this opportunity to get ahead, but by doing some like kind of shady things. But when you're surrounded by people who are doing that and it just feels like that's how the system is going to work, it's kind of. kind of hard to not want to participate in it. And then Naomi kind of had, was a little more strong headed about her own opinions, basically, not just always going with the flow. So it sounds like you kind of wanted to do that concept itself from the beginning. But did you know you were going to kind of use the sisters to contrast like the different approaches to that?

I guess I just knew that they were really different people that Naomi was this confident, bold, strong young woman, and then Maya was more easily manipulated. And so, yeah, I guess that's kind of just what I had in my mind. And then as I rewrote scenes, because I like to rewrite the scenes over and over again, I think I built more of their comprehensive. personalities, hopefully into it. Yeah. Yeah, you can feel it because it's like you switch between timelines and you switch between characters. But I always felt like I knew like who the main character was of the chapter, even if I'd

like put it down because they did feel so separate themselves. I guess what's tricky was that they were, the places that they're in and the other characters around them do overlap. So it was kind of tricky to balance, like, how much do I want their stories to mirror one another and how much do we want to make sure they're unique? Yeah. Yeah. And I always like when, like, separate timelines near the end, like, it ends up coming together

that way. And I feel like that happened with this one, too, where, like, they definitely have their separate stories. but then the climactic moment for like both of them is like intertwined essentially. Mm-hmm. That was actually my editor's idea to have the, that climax mirror Maya's storyline as well. Like the worst moment for Naomi mirrors a bad moment for Maya. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And then you do, you just get to see how differently. how differently people or like in this case women navigate just like what they're having to navigate in their lives which is interestingly enough I am reading the line women of Tehran and it is doing the same thing and it's not a thriller but it's doing that same thing where it's showing like two women who are like friends from the time that they were little girls and then seeing how they're different personalities and their different socioeconomic economic classes, like, shape their trajectory as they get older.

And I do think it's just fascinating when books can do that. Like, I think it's kind of a reminder that, like, not everyone acts the same way, but it could still seem justifiable from either way. Yeah. I like that when there's complex characters. Those are the types of books I like to read are when it's, you know, a woman's story or a complex story about this character who you can see why. they're acting this way even if it's not the right thing even if you don't agree with them yeah yeah yeah it's

i've been on this kick of talking about how books also help us like develop more empathy and i feel like that's kind of like what happens in these scenarios or like sometimes even if you're like oh why is my doing that like you actually know why she's doing it even if you wouldn't always make the same decision yeah i totally agree with you i think reading is so important especially for people who are you know kids and teens and you know everyone really to develop more empathy and see from other people's perspectives yeah totally well speaking of reading have you read anything recently that you've loved yes i have so many recommendations right here so here's another dark academia it's where sleeping girls live by frida bke emida and it's about um you read it

have you read it or heard of it yes i have oh cool it's set at a boarding school very creepy boarding school and when the main character arrives soon after her roommate is uh killed or missing it goes missing we'll say no commitment and And she is accused of, you know, knowing something about it. So there's that. And that's in the synopsis. So good in there. Yeah, it's so good.

And I loved her first book, Aces Spades, too. Oh, my God. I love it so much. That was one of the comps I gave, actually, for Society of Lice. Oh, cool. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. And then Real Americans, I thought, was really well done, too.

It's more of like a sweeping multi-generational, multi-pov book. Okay. Yeah, it's hard to explain, but it's like part romance, part family drama coming of age two. Oh, right. Mm-hmm. And then there's a twist in there that I can't give away. And then you know what you did by Katie Wen? She's a debut author too.

It's so good. It's about a Vietnamese-American artist who, dealing with the death of her mother you know her life starts to unravel and it's definitely a psychological thriller her art patron goes missing so yeah check it out yeah that one is chilling

that one is wild creepy but so good very twisty I was like afraid of bugs for forever and I'll just live in at that after I read it I know. My skin was crawling. Yeah. I love that scene. Yeah. Yeah. Well, those are great. Those are great recommendations. I'll add those to the show notes.

And then also, where is the best place for people to follow you to keep up with everything? Yeah. So I have a website, Laurenlingbrown.com, or you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, at Laurenling Brown also. or Goodreads. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of getting more active lately. I feel like.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I will put, yeah. I will put, you don't know, you're totally fine. I'll put those notes in the show notes for everyone. And thank you so much for talking with me. Thanks for having me. It was so fun.