Bookwild - Memoir Isn’t Dead (and Never Will Be) with Rachel Kramer Bussel

Episode Date: April 24, 2026

This week, I chat with Rachel Kramer Bussel—editor, essayist, and founder of Open Secrets Magazine—about a lifelong love of reading, writing and editing.  Listen to hear about: How memoirs allow readers to experience others' lives in highly personal ways Rachel’s journey from editing 70+ erotica anthologies to building a personal essays literary magazine How “ordinary” lives still make compelling, meaningful essays The behind-the-scenes reality of running a submission-based publication The emotional and ethical tightrope of writing about real people, relationships, and personal struggles Rachel's "Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to ban books" T-shirt Books We Talked About I'm Glad My Mom Died — Jennette McCurdy King of Ashes — S. A. Cosby Razorblade Tears — S. A. Cosby Camouflage — Heather Sweeney Hologram Boyfriends — Mike Albo Somebody I Used to Know — Wendy Mitchell Agorafabulous — Sara Benincasa Actress of a Certain Age — Jeff Hiller Do What Godmother Says — L. S. Stratton Adult Braces — Lindy West Strangers — Belle Burden Famesick — Lena Dunham Destroy this House – Amanda Uhle Check Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mba 

Well, I am super excited. I am with Rachel Kramer. Kramer. That's the one that I mess up after you tell me. I'm with Rachel Kramer Bustle. And she is many things. She's an editor. She's the founder of Open Secrets Magazine. She's about to have a fun of it that we're going to talk about. And definitely a bookish friend. So thank you for coming on. Thank you. Books are like my favorite thing. They're probably the thing I spend the most money on. Maybe close, but books, if it's not books, close second. Like, I love books. For me, it's books and like book related clothing. I was just admiring your shirt and I said, I want to get one for myself. She has a mama's don't let your babies grow up to be in book shirt. That is pretty amazing if you're just listening. And can I can I, I know we haven't even like really jumped in, but this is from an author, Haley DeRos, Sad Bej online. She has an online store.

So I just wanted to shout her out because I love wearing the shirt to the library or to bookish places. You know, I never know. Like I go to a library at least twice a week with my toddler. And I hope that people who go to a story time are not wanting to ban books, but you never know. You never know. That's for sure. Well, I'm going to, I made an end of that. I will put a link of that in the show notes in case anyone wants to go check out those shirts for sure.

So we know you love books. What has your bookish journey been? Yeah, let's just start with that. Like, we'll start with that part. I mean, if we're talking my whole life, I literally don't remember a time before I was not just reading, but like collecting, like into having books around me as a kid. I was reading Trixie Belden, this mystery series from, I guess, well, I don't know if it was from the 80s, but that was what I was reading it. And I had them all. And like when a new one would come out, the same with Sweet Valley High.

I remember calling pretty sure it was Walden Books and B. Dalton like at the local malls to see if they had the book, you know, on the day it was supposed to come out because those, I don't know if Trixie Bellden was every month, but Sweet Belly High was. So like I would be calling to make sure they had it before we went all the way to the mall. I feel very old saying this. Like not that I care about my age, but I'm just, I feel like I'm dating myself by talking about like calling a bookstore to see if they're. they had the book in, which I hope people still shop at bookstores. I do too. Still sometimes, yeah.

And I'm always like, could you get it to me early? Like, I know they're not supposed to, but you know how sometimes they do. Like, I, I'm just such a book nerd. And my biggest problem these days is I have a toddler. I have a magazine. Like, I have a lot of things competing for my time. And I'm always carrying around like a stack of books, even in my house. I will carry them downstairs at night, like two, just in case I get, like, bored with

the one. and my boyfriend will say like, why are you carrying this huge stack of like a book and a computer? I'm like, well, because like I think I'll do a little work and then I'll, you know, treat myself to reading. And then the reality is I usually crawl asleep with a book, sometimes literally in my hands. Oh my gosh. You ever dropped it on your face? I haven't, but I don't know why I remember what it was, but it was Jeanette McCurdy's. I'm so glad my mom died.

And I just remember I was like in bed asleep and my boyfriend, I have separate bedrooms because I'm, messy and have books like and stuff everywhere and he does not and I just remember like I fell asleep holding it and he plucked it out of my hands and like the lights were on and I feel like that's not I know that sleep people tell you like don't fall asleep with the lights on and you know all those things but I think as long as it's not that blue light like there's nothing wrong with holding a physical book in your hands while you fall asleep right yeah I am like all kindle and audiobook so that was where my curiosity was coming from because I'm like sometimes I think about reading in bed at night and I'm like especially if it was like a hard back or like a fantasy that's like 800 pages long. I'm like that has to be hard. I do try to like I read a lot more hardcover's now either that I get from the library or like a I don't buy as many because I just they're so heavy and I moved four times in three years and after that I was like okay hard covers are a lot but I do have some that either I bought or was sent and I like them because they do lay flat on the table.

like if I'm reading and kind of doing something else. But yes, it is a consideration, especially if I'm just being lazy and just want to like hold it open, you know, with one hand and just like lie there. But I want to get into audiobooks, but I don't know what it is. Like I can listen to a three-hour podcast. No problem. Pay attention. But I have started a mystery where like someone dies in the first chapter.

I've started a memoir that I already read that I knew I liked, read by the author. I have tried to get into audiobooks and I just, I think I don't, it's not that I don't think it's reading. Of course it is, but for me, like I don't feel like I'm retaining the information in the same way. And I feel like it's more like wafting in and out of my mind. Whereas when I'm reading, especially if, you know, I'm not trying to focus on anything else, like in an ideal world, sometimes, you know, I'm reading and, you know, I'm waiting online somewhere or something. But when I'm really reading, like, I'm getting super into the story and I'm not thinking about anything else. And I feel like with audiobooks for some reason, I can't get into that headspace. And it's frustrating because it would save me time because sometimes I'm putting away laundry or doing the dishes.

And that's when I listen to podcasts. But I think maybe it's just the length of an audiobook. And also, I love reading. Like, I love reading a book like with my eyes. I don't, it's not that I love that audio books are so. widely accessible now. And I did just start listening to a memoir camouflage by Heather Sweeney, who I met at AWP. And I told her, I was like, you might have been the like person who unlocked my audiobook streak. And I did set it aside not because of anything. I thought it was

really interesting. It's about she became a military spouse. And it was not what she expected. Like, she didn't plan on it. Her husband, like suddenly decided he wanted to be in the military. Wow. And then they wound up having kids. And it's basically about this huge life change for her and lifestyle change. And I don't know if it was just the way she wrote the book. It's very accessible, like easy to listen to. Interesting.

But I did listen and I am going to go back to that. Like I haven't listened to any another audiobook since. Oh, I'm wrong. I listened to a little bit of hologram boyfriends by Mike Albo because I'm in this memoraring book club. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's online on substack. And they were listening to that.

And that's audio only. And so I have listened to parts of both of those. But again, like, no offense to the authors who are great. I just for both of those, I do remember what they talked about. And I did feel like I was in the story probably because they were reading it to me. And I have met both of them. But I just, yeah, I'm just much more of like a physical book person. So it is not the most convenient unless you have a giant living space, which I don't.

So I have gorgeous bookshelves that anyone who ever visits or is doing anything in our house is like, wow, they're, you know, floor to ceiling. They were built not for me, but they were like handmade. They're gorgeous. Yeah. And then I have another regular one, but I have way more books than that. And I don't have space for another. Okay. So that's where my boyfriend is like, okay, you literally don't have more space unless you got rid of a dresser of clothes.

So why are there some stacked on the floor? And to me, they're not bothering me. the ones stacked on the floor like they're tucked away mostly so so what but like it's vibes yeah so it's just a it's an ongoing you know agreed to disagree situation on the number of books oh yeah I was the same way for I didn't even start list I couldn't do fiction audio books until almost exactly a year ago now was the first time that it started working for me so I was the same like for some reason my brain couldn't like click in to the to the type of imagining that you need to do for fiction but I could do kind of like you're saying and a lot of people will tell you to try memoirs

I could do memoirs and I could do nonfiction where like I was just like learning something maybe like one chapter at a time but even then it just didn't work for me and I have I don't know what changed was there an audio was there a specific like book or genre that yes took you there so King of Ashes by S.A. Cosby is narrated by Adam Lava, Lavaire White. Yeah, I think it's that. And he is fantastic. So it was like one of my best friends, one of the co-hosts. She's always been an audiobook listener. And so she was starting to tell me like, here, Adam Lizar's, what, Adam Lizar White's voice is like butter. Like start with him. And she's so right. And so then she kept giving me like, like, recommendations. recommendations that way. So that at least, I think, is part of what else. So maybe I will try that because I did like, I really liked, um, I didn't read Blacktop Blazeland, but what was the other one by S.A. Cosby, the second one. Oh, all the years. Yes. Okay. Wait. Wait. Wait. Is there another one? Razor Blade tears. Yes. Like, I read that and then I had my like family members read it who read mysteries. I love that. And I remember thinking like, this is amazing, but I could not see the movie because it's too violent for me. very but so I did start King of Ashes and I feel like I sound like such a dilettant of a reader it's I love books but like I think as I've gotten older my attention span is shorter and my ADHD is worse so

I will put down a book not because I don't like it but literally because another book that feels more urgent to me will cross my path and then I'll forget to go back to it and or the library wants it back and that is what happened like king of ashes and like I go to the library all the time. So I see the new books out, but then eventually, you know, they put the new books on the shelves and you don't see it out and you forget. So I go through phases. Like I read a lot of- I'm a mood reader too. I read a lot of mystery and thriller. I used to read a lot of romance, but I've kind of on pause with that. And I read a lot of memoir and then like some self-help and biography. But I'll go through a period where if I find a new author, especially if it's

mystery, I love when there's a series because I'll read, you know, 10. in a row if there is 10. Yeah. Yeah. That's the best feeling when you get like a backlist. With the romance, though, I saw that you edited and wrote erotica for a while. For a very long time, 25 years. Oh, wow. I was like, wait, is that right? Because yeah, I started when I was 22, 23, and I edited my last anthology and put out a book of my short stories called Laugh Dance lust in 2024, I think. So yeah, like 25 years, which is half my life. I mean, really long time. I think that's, I'm not going to say I burned out on it, but I feel like I edited 70 anthologies. I wrote probably over 100 stories. Like I was very immersed in that world. I was teaching erotica

classes. And I did so much within erotica and both my life changed. Like I became a mom. And not to say that moms can't be interested in erotica. But I think, like when I'm really into something, whether it's a genre to read or to work in or a hobby. Like, I will go all in. I don't just casually do it. So because I got so involved, I think I just couldn't do all of, like, I couldn't do the erotica and do all the things in the nonfiction essay and memoir space that I wanted to do because I also write, I mean, the whole time I was also writing my own essays. And that just became more what I wanted to focus on. And a little bit, I was. I feel like, oh, I miss the boat because romance is, you know, booming now.

Not that it's always been popular, but it's especially booming now. But I'm really proud of the work I did in Erotica. Like I published over 800 authors in those 70 anthologies. And I met people literally all over the world. Like I taught Erotica classes in a bunch of different places. But I got to teach one in Berlin when I was visiting my cousins. There was like a sex positive shop there called Other Nature. And it was really cool to just like navigate on my, you know, phone map to this space.

And then like people I don't know who were living in another country. I mean, I taught it in English because I don't speak German. But wanted to hear what I had to say. Like that was super, super cool. And I have, you know, I still love what is happening with the genre. And I still like cheer on the people I met through there. I mean, I follow them. And a lot of them are also romance authors.

So I see what they're doing. but I feel like I am a little bit of that like intense personality where I can only have so many interests like that and still have a life. So hyper fixate. I think I've now hyper fixated on memoir. And I love that because I, I mean, I'm not, they're kind of apples and oranges, but, you know, to me, memoir, it's so, I do feel like I know the author. And I think that's a tricky balance of like, do you really know the author?

No, I don't know everything about them. I know what they chose to tell me, but if they're a good writer, of course, I feel like I know something about them. And I'm also a caregiver for my mom who has dementia. So I've read several memoirs about that. And I've learned so much from those memoirs in many ways more than the nonfiction books. Not more than, but like learned in a different way. Like learned the way you learn from hearing from someone who's gone through something versus like an expert telling you how it's done. Yeah. And I will shout out a memoir that I actually learned the most from, which was by a woman who has since passed away. But she had early onset Alzheimer's Wendy Mitchell. And she has three memoirs. I've read two of them. The last one I just, I read them in quick succession. And the last one was something like, it was not exactly this, but like how to prepare for the end. And I was like, I can't go there right after those two. But the first one is called, I think it's called somebody I used to know. And.

It basically, she co-wrote it with an author, is about how she did so many things to combat her dementia and her, you know, Alzheimer's. And she just, the way she would describe something, like she would say the doormat at the front door to me looked like a hole, even though it's not. And it's something about the way she described these things. Like she said she barricaded herself in her kitchen when she was making a cup of tea because otherwise she would forget and maybe leave the kettle on. I think it was that she talked about the emotional experience of knowing she was losing her memory,

but then also the resourcefulness she had to, or she didn't have to. A lot of people don't, but she did want to be as, you know, mobile as possible. So she would plan out routes ahead of time on travel. Like she lived outside of London, but if she was going to London, she would look up, okay, it's this exit. And she would print out a photo of that exit. So she could have that with her to look where it was. And like to me,

there's no substitute for a memoir like that because it's a person in talking about their real lived experience relatively close to the time it happened. So, you know, pretty vivid. And I didn't want to, I think I waited to look her up until I was midway between that second and third book. And then when I found that that she had passed, I was like, oh, that's so devastating.

because she had a blog the whole time, which I believe is still up. Wow. And I've read other memoirs by children of people with dementia that are also fascinating. But I think anytime you can read about someone's like lived experience, it's just so vivid. And no, I don't remember every single detail because that was five years ago at a very fraught time for me. But like the feeling of reading it and the feeling of learning from someone and knowing that, okay, she has this disease, but she's also figured out a way to, like, handle it as much as possible and write a book that's helping other people. And, you know, it was so inspiring.

Like, to me, that is really the beauty of memoir that you can change people's lives and deeply impact them just by writing about your life. Like, you don't have to be an expert in the traditional sense of, you know, went to school for it, know, know a million studies. You're an expert in your own life. And by sharing your own life, you're giving other people either permission or resources or just camaraderie as like a human to another human. And that's what I hope I'm doing with my work as a writer and an editor. Because I think people really crave that.

No, not everyone. Some people only read fiction. Like they want to escape real life. And I totally get that because we all need that sometimes. Right. They may have a life event that they don't know. was coming though that will make them like something could happen where then reading a memoir like you're saying could be so helpful and there's also like such a range of memoirs I do tend to read about

mental health and you know addiction and like darker topics but there are first of all there's people writing about those things sometimes in humorous ways um a friend of mine sarah ben and costa wrote a book called agoraphilus about being agoraphobic and like it's intense I mean when she's talking about being agoraphobic she's not like you know she really was extremely agoraphobic and had to I think she had to leave school but still there was humor in parts of it and I think yeah like there's different ways that people approach their writing about their lives and so you know I don't think it's for everyone I don't think any genre is for everyone but you know I sometimes you hear this like oh memoir is you know dead or memoir

people isn't selling and I don't know how it's selling necessarily across the board but like based on my conference and my magazine and just talking to other people like there are a lot of people who do like memoir um and I think I don't think it's for everyone though I think sometimes people feel like oh well like I couldn't write about my life and that's okay like not everyone has to or has to want to read that but it's there if you if you are interested Right. Yeah, I saw, I mean, to be fair, Lena Dunham gets just hate no matter what she does. And I'm not in any way saying she's a perfect person, but she just had her second memoir come out. And I saw someone on threads that was like, all I can say is I'm 41 years old. And I think zero memoirs is still a more appropriate number of memoirs to have from me. And I was just like, what a like shitty, honestly, shitty way to think about it. like especially from what you're saying like it you don't you don't have to have like even done something quote unquote amazing to deserve a memoir or lived so many lives and have all this like

super deep wisdom like there are so many memoirs that have been so like impactful to me because of exactly what you just said like it's kind of most of them are kind of a series of essays and i'm getting to like it really experience someone else's experience pretty closely. I mean, I think there's kind of, I mean, there's more than two kind of memories, but I do think there's the ones where it's, you know, I had agoraphobia or, you know, my mom was abusive or whatever. Yeah. Like something clearly tragic or dark or troubling happened or is happening and you're grappling with that. And then there's not, I'm not going to say more lighthearted, but more everyday ones where someone is making meaning out of their life out of whatever it is. And I think

both can exist. Like both have a purpose. And also not every book is for every person. And I saw Lena Dunham speak in Philly for her book tour. And it was, it was super interesting. And I haven't gotten to read it yet. But, you know, I just think, I don't know. I was going to say, like, you shouldn't criticize a book before you've read it. I think that's a little bit impossible because we all hear if you're in the social media bookish world. Like you're going to hear about books. You might form an opinion. But at the same time, like, you're, don't really know what's in there or what you are going to think of the book as a whole, just even if you read an excerpt or two excerpts.

Like those are, you know, a subset of what the author intended the book to be. And so, and I think we're in this interesting time where like there's a couple of pretty fuzzy memoirs, you know, Lindy West's adult races, strangers by Bell Vernon and Lena Dunham's famous that are like getting a lot of attention. I would say sometimes for the wrong reasons, but I do think they're getting people talking and not just about the book itself, but about wealth in the case of Bell Burden's book

and marriage and marriage and polyamory and fame also in some ways in Lindy West's case. And then Lena Dunham's about pop culture and fame and addiction and sickness and ambition. I mean, I think anyone's life story is, of course, about them. but it is also touching on other things that other people relate to. And I think sometimes people think of reading memoir as well, unless I went through something super similar,

I'm not going to like that memoir. And I don't, I mean, maybe, but like I read memoirs to learn about what someone else's life. Yeah. Is like whether or not I have a intersection point with it. And almost always there's something about it that grabbed me.

And for instance, Jeff, from the show, somebody somewhere who is one of our keynote speakers at OpenCard's Live, my event. I read his memoir, actress of a certain age, because a friend of mine recommended it since some of it overlaps with his time in New York and when we both lived in New York. And so I'm not an actor. So all of that was not my circle, although I know a lot of comedians and actors, but where I did find a related related point is I don't think he outright said he has ADHD, but he talked about things that are similar to people with ADHD,

which I have about like, he was basically like, you know, don't invite me to something because I can't keep track of, you know, time. And it was about him being late to things or like forgetting things. And I just thought that was very vulnerable to,

to say that in public. Like, not that it's not true, but that not everyone wants to share those sort of less funny things. And he did it in a funny way. But I just thought, And to me, like, even though there were a lot of like funnier stories or gossipier stories or whatever, that one was the one that really stood out to me because it was, I thought that was the most relatable for me personally. And I wasn't cracking that open necessarily to find something relatable.

Honestly, it was partly because I read so many darker, like, memoirs about heavy topics that I wanted something later. And it was fun. And just to see his framing to every chapter is named after another celebrity memory. more and then he puts at the bottom of the page on that opening page what age they were when they got famous because his like whole arc of that story is about getting famous in his 40 mid 40s when he had somewhat given up on that ever being a thing that could happen and I just thought it was a really funny and cute but also you know in some ways poignant way to to highlight his journey about age and also it really did if you were a

about celebrity memoirs, which I am a little bit, like, I highly recommend that book because it's definitely a celebrity memoir fans memoir. Hi, you agree. Bruce, Bruce, it's okay. It's okay. It's just a neighbors. Bruce. How about you go downstairs? Oh, look who's here? Your dad's here. Go get him. Bruce, guess who's here? He knows the term. guess who's here. It's so crazy. Okay. We were talking about Jeff Hiller's memoir. Yes. Yes. So I've had I've had really similar experiences too where like ones that I think I'll have nothing in common with. I might even have like some huge breakthrough because they're talking about something similar to something I've gone through. But since it's like in a different context,

it like hits me differently. And that's always a really cool moment when you can have that happen too. And I want to put in, I mean, not that libraries need a plug necessarily, but I think sometimes people forget that like you can go to your library and try on, you know, you don't have to, I mean, yes, buy books, like support artists, support writers, but you can try a book at the library that maybe you don't like it, but you, or maybe you never heard of that book, but it's being recommended or it's on the new release shelf or it's on a, you know, you just happen to come across it. I love just discovering books that way or at bookstores or just randomly. I mean, I find a lot of books on both podcasts and on social media that someone else is recommending.

And I love an unexpected memoir that, you know, maybe I went in with a preconceived notion and then it surprised me. Or it's about something that I wouldn't normally read about, but I was, I, you know, got curious about the author or the topic. And I think memoirs really do speak to readers in a different way than fiction. And not that there aren't truths being told in fiction because I will also read fiction. And sometimes it stops me in my tracks because I'm like, that is so real and so relatable, even though it's a fictional character saying it. But I think the difference with memoir is that then you can look up the author and, I mean, presuming they're still alive and be like, oh, like that person dealt with that thing and now is

still going about their life. And it's like seeing what they're doing after you finish the book is, it's almost like a PS or like a sequel to the book. Yeah. I are when I was in therapy in my 20s, our therapists had us reading like memoirs or autobiographies too. I mean, I feel like memoirs a little more personal for all kinds of reasons. But it was because, especially if you're depressed, sometimes getting to see the scope like you're saying like you can read something that happened to a real person and whether they're like oh my life's great now or they're just still like working on stuff you still get to see that like things can be really hard and you can get through them and it doesn't mean things are going to be amazing quickly but it helps you give

that perspective of like other people have gone through difficult things and like moved through it and then look at them out there in the world basically it is so helpful and i haven't read hers yet but i did get her latest from the library jenny lawson who writes a lot about mental health like i admire people like that so much because they're continuing to grapple with their mental health publicly which nobody owes the world that i mean it's such a hard topic to deal with and it's so personal but i think i think i think the writers who are inclined to share their lives in writing whether online or in books, like they are doing a service to other people who, you know, both people who might or are, you know, going through something similar and they're family members and loved ones.

Because I think that's another market for memoirs is the people who are adjacent to that topic, but who care about someone, but either don't know how to ask those questions or it's too fraught to like, you know, say it. And I think that's really the role of writing both personal essays and memoir is to allow, at least for me as a writer, but also I think for other writers, it's to give us space to say things in a way that we wouldn't say, even to people really close to us, not because we don't trust them, not even maybe to our therapist. Like we might talk about those topics, but I think when we write, it's a different medium and we can access a kind of thinking that we might not put it in that exact way. And I think it is a healing process for a lot of writers

to sort through their lives and organize them and really scrutinize them like a character, but you're the character. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes just getting it out of your head, literally gets it out of your head. Like sometimes it's like, okay, I don't need to keep spinning about this. Like, I've processed it. That's how I feel. And it's funny because this comes up a lot in my relationship.

I've been with my boyfriend 14 years. He is an abstract artist. Like, this is his art behind me. he is an artist, but he doesn't read memoirs. He'll read my essays, but like he doesn't really get the whole concept of it. Like he's like, why would you go there? And through him, I've understood that like not everyone wants to read about those things or processes information that way. But I've also learned that, you know, for me, that is literally like how I've processed my life for like over 30 years.

Like I was a teenager writing letters to the editor and essays about things in my life. And now, too, even in my 50s, like, yes, there's a little bit of an ego boost of like, yes, my work is published in so-and-so place. But it is also that by working through it on the page, like, I do literally work through it. And not that it's all always neatly resolved, but I come to conclusions that way that I might not have officially thought out in full. I might have contemplated them, but like when I'm writing an essay, I have to really write out, like, why did I do this or not do this? Or what am I planning to do?

Or what did I learn from this? And it forces you to really grapple with those questions and think about like, well, what is someone going to say when they read this? Are they going to think you're stupid? Are they going to think you're ridiculous? And, you know, you have to be okay with that. I mean, again, like, that's not for everyone. you do have to have a somewhat thick skin and you do have to I think you have to have a reason why you're doing it um beyond like you know a career or fame or money because those may or may not happen I think you have to

have a like sort of deeper artistic reason and I tend to believe that I was just this is innate to me that I process my life through writing because I've been doing it for really as long as I can remember and and yeah And I've met people through writing, like people, like either that I've struck up a correspondence with or people online. Like I wrote an essay about leaving most of my, I mean, I still do have a career in work, but leaving like the majority of my work to become a, you know, work from home, very part-time work-from-home mom and rely on my partner for financial stability and how that was a hard transition as a feminist and as someone who had both. built a successful career. And I heard from so many other women who went through a version of that. And it's not that we resent that. Like, we're grateful that we're able to be with our kids. But there is a loss there. And that was what I was grappling with. And that was, I wrote that specifically for a prompt in the Wall Street Journal about something that writers have changed

their mind about. And it was interesting because I had to, I like got fixated on that column. Sometimes I do that online. I'm like, or offline. I'm like, I just really want to crack the code of whatever that premise of a column is. And I'll read a bunch of them. And I think it's, and it's really cool now as an editor. I get to be the one making prompts for people. So it was just interesting to think about, okay, what big things have I changed my mind about?

And one was like, I used to be vegan as a teenager and young adult and no longer am, but I had already written about that. And I was just like, it was an interesting. a way of looking at my life of like what are the big arcs of change that have happened over time and then as an editor I sometimes discount that this is like a form of creativity but it is really fun to come up with writing prompts for people and on open secrets I have two that are flash fiction that run usually every week and one is about hobbies like any hobby and one is about called objectives which is about an object in your life a personal

possession that you can't stop thinking about. And those have been in particular really fun because they're pretty focused. Like it's pretty clear it's either a hobby or an object or it's not. And like our other categories are bigger like mental health or family. So those could encompass lots of different things. But what's come in for those has been so fascinating. Like the way people have taken those prompts and run with them and have said to me, you know, this made me think about like an object in my life in a different way than I had ever considered, you know, what it's real meaning is to me. And it's been so fun to just see where people go with those prompts. And like, I do feel a bit of like, I don't know, like, like, like powerful to be able

to like write like, write a, you know, call for submissions and have people all over the world taking that and thinking about it and brainstorming around it. And like, that is one of of my favorite aspects of running a magazine and not not one that I considered when I started because when I started I just had this random idea of like I that was my next question yeah I was at it was it was April 2023 when I launched it and I think I had the idea a couple months before there were a couple of publications that had stopped accepting essays or were shutting down and I love essays similar to memoir but like I can I have time to read more essays than I do like whole memoirs and And so I just wanted to see if I could do it.

And I talked to Sari Bhatton, who runs Oldster and Memoirland magazines also on Substack about, you know, like, do you have to have a lot of, you know, infrastructure or tech knowledge? And she was basically like, no, you can, you know, start it pretty easily in terms of what's required. And so I just, at first we were doing one essay a week and then we've since expanded. And it's just been really interesting to watch it expands pretty organically. Like I started with the categories I thought were interesting and that people would want to write about. And then sometimes I would get one that was not quite fitting into any of those. So like a woman wrote about being a senior who was getting evicted from her home because

of finances after living there for, I think, 30 something years. So I started a finances category. And then last year we started a like a food and security series within that finances category in response to the budget cuts with SNAP. And that's been another really cool thing to be able to respond in real time to things in the news because it's an online magazine has been very gratifying and interesting. And another category I started in response to submissions I was getting is identity, which is a person. catch-all term, but there were just some essays coming in about aspects of identity that didn't fit the other categories. And like, I love that sense of any time I could open that inbox and there might be like something waiting for me that I never could have dreamt up,

okay, send me an essay about, you know, getting a DNA test and finding out that, you know, you're part Italian or, you know, whatever random topics that. come in, like, it's always new to me and always lively. And I hope it stays that way, you know, forever. I think that, like we were talking before about erotica, because I did it for such a long time, it started to lose that liveliness for me. Like, I could do it. I could have kept doing it, but it had lost some of that, like, spark for me. And, and right now, like memoir and essays like I have that same spark that I did three years ago when I started open secrets you know I still have that because it's just such a rich and wide genre I'm going to say there's

there's still more variety not that there's not variety in romance but I'm assuming yeah essays like it's so much variety and sometimes I'll approach a fiction author who you know I know their work I'm a fan and I'll say hey we don't publish fiction but do you have any essay ideas and sometimes they're they'll say like I don't have I don't write essays and I'll say okay yeah I'm like no pressure but yeah if you ever want to and this writer Ellis Stratton who writes um also under shelly ellis I really loved her um her most recent one sundown girls well so I didn't do a godmother yeah that one I gave that as a gift like I loved that book and when I saw that sundown girls was coming out I reached out to her a couple of months before and say, like, hey, do you have any essay ideas? And she wrote me an essay

about failing calculus in college and how that in some ways was, you know, hard, but then led indirectly to her becoming an English major. And I think I'm getting it right. Like, you know, you can go read it in our archives. But yeah. And then it was about that and then grappling with her daughter learning calculus and saying her something like, oh, you can't help me because you failed it in college. And that's like an example of an essay where like I didn't fail calculus. I don't even think I had to take. I think I avoided taking math because I had listed an AP. But I almost failed astronomy because I'm just not really like a science person in that way. And it was hard because I felt like I'm a smart person. I should be able to do this. All these other kids are doing it. Why can't I do it? And I think that essay is an example of one word. like maybe you didn't go through something exactly like that, but we can all probably relate to something that either we failed at or that was really hard for us and forced us to think about, like, am I on the right path or, you know, what can I do differently to better my chances

of success? And like, you know, and so it was just, it was really cool to me, A, to work with an author whose novels I've really enjoyed and also to provide a space where they, could write something that was not, you know, specifically about their book, but was indirectly about their writing career. And I love, like, I do love getting things in the slush pile, but I also love reaching out to authors. And recently, I find a lot of authors on Substag, because I'm on there a lot, just scrolling. Yeah. This woman, Deepa Paul, who is, her book was published in the UK. I think she's based in the Philippines. she wrote a polyamory memoir that came out last year.

She got 31 rejections in the U.S. And people like editors saying, you know, there's not a market for this. And so she was writing about in the wake of Lindy West's memoir, adult braces, getting so much attention. I mean, I really haven't seen a memoir get that much attention in a very long time, like in the way it got, you know, op-eds and just influx of articles everywhere,

like seemingly everywhere. Yeah. people are obsessed with her. And so Deepa wrote about the dissonance of being a woman of color with a polyammery memoir out that, you know, got rejected in the United States seeing all this talk about Lindy West memoir. And it was, it kind of straddles this line of like, yes, she wishes hers had sold in the U.S. but the level of scrutiny that Lindy got, she talked about like being grateful that, you know, she wasn't under that much of. the internet, you know, laser beam. And so, like, that was a really cool one because I just

reached out to her. I had seen that she posted about her book changing titles and subtitles slightly from hardcover to paperback, which I'm always interested in, like, geeky book, stuff like that. And I said, you know, do you have anything either about polyamory or anything else? And that's what she came back with. And that was, like, that's always really fun for me to be able to reach out to people and offer them an opportunity to reach a different audience than, you know, totally their own necessarily. Yeah. Yeah, that is, that's really cool that you can kind of do the mixture of having people send you stuff, but you can reach out to them, which I guess has kind of been my experience too with mine is like sometimes I'm reading a book

and I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to connect with this author. And sometimes it's like the author or the publicist is like pitching me on it. So I do kind of, I guess I do kind of understand that process a little bit. When you started it, was it mainly because you like wanted a place for essays? Was that kind of where I was coming from? I mean, I was also teaching essay writing classes. So I wanted to have a home like an easier, you know, past a publication for some of my students. And just I also know a lot of writers and I'm friends with a lot of writers. So who I knew had interesting stories. So the first couple months were mostly people

I had reached out to privately and I didn't put out a call for submissions because I right away I think I held off or I didn't start publishing ones from the public for a little while but then I was running out of people to hit up and also

I love the process this I've retained from the erotic anthology editing. I love putting a call for submissions online and just seeing what happens with it. Yeah. I mean, with one caveat that I did not face this with erotica, but with essays, I get a lot,

not a lot, but I get way too many AI written submissions. And it's such a, I don't even want to like waste time like delving into that. But I'll just say like it's very disheartening and very discouraging. And at times I've thought like should I not even have public calls for submissions? Because like what a waste of your time, my time? How do you know? Like, is it the case? I'm always curious.

Well, almost always. There was one exception where, like, I don't know if it was AI, but someone misrepresented themselves. And I did actually publish them and wound up taking it down. And I'm still trying to figure out, like, how to talk about that publicly. And I found out through a convoluted way, like several things that I noticed that were like hinky about a third submission they sent. But in almost all the AI cases, I now.

actually have tabs. I have one that says like AI submission and just like reject and one says like maybe AI question mark and I'll like go back and look through those. So I don't always know off the bat, but I usually can tell by sometimes it's a sentence structure. It's not m dashes. I mean, people say it. I know. I use m dashes. I mean, it's not m dashes. It's really just like a tone. And I'll give you an example. Like for the food insecurity series, yes, some people wrote ones that were semi similar to each other about like, you know, going on snap for various reasons. But you could just tell that it was a human story by the way they wrote. And then other people would say like, you know, food.

I mean, hunger is not something that lives only in your stomach, but in your mind. Like these weird, like, I think there's just remove with the AI ones where they'll seem like they're sharing a personal detail, but when you really read the sentence, you're like, this isn't actually personal. This is very abstract and vague and like not really about your life, but about the topic in general. And yes, you can write an essay about your life and bring in statistics or bring in like a larger picture. But these essays just have almost all the ones that I've read that I suspected or was pretty sure were AI, like have this way of. of writing that just doesn't feel personal in the way that I want Open Secrets essays to feel

personal. Like, like it almost feels impersonal, which is, yes, a ironic thing for a personal essay. But like, like, instead of starting with like, you know, I went through the, or I, you know, or they'll start at a really specific thing, but then you'll get five in a row that are like, I'm at the cash register and I have $2 left in my bank account. And, and I think some of my actual essays. that I published had something like that in there.

But these, these, I think it's also volume. Like when you read one that has that structure and then you read another and another. Yeah. And it was, it has been something I've struggled with because when I started a climate series after the LA wildfires, and I was getting a lot that were like either articles that weren't essays at all, but about like, you know, about climate change. And I'm like, that's not what we do. And I do have a requirement that you be a subscriber to submit,

Partly, yes, because I want subscribers, but also so I know you're getting our emails and like hopefully reading them and hope, like, you really only need to read two or three of our essays to get a sense of what we're about. And I can tell when people haven't, like when they've mass submitted or not necessarily mass submitted, but like when it's just, even if it isn't AI, like it's just not a fit because it's just not personal enough. And our essays are very personal, like even the flash ones, even if it's on a life. heard a topic like it I want to feel like I did get to know you even if it's only in a thousand words or right or two thousand words like I want to feel like I know something about you that makes me have an emotion really you know that's and that's sort of hard to for some people that might be hard to explain but when people get it like you know I love the feeling of reading something where they don't have to tell me I'm a regular reader of the site to for me to feel that you

understand what I'm trying to do with it. And I guess it's kind of and I know it when I see it thing. Right. And sometimes I do go back to authors and say like, this was really good, but could you go a little more deeper into what that experience was like? You know, I do offer feedback. I don't usually, if I thought the whole thing needed going deeper, then I probably would say like, this isn't right for me. but I truly believe like you were talking about before, but some of those memoirs that or essay collections that are not about something super dramatic, like you could write about, you know,

what it's like to make oatmeal every day as long as there's something compelling about like why you're making the oatmeal and what, you know, what role oatmeal serves in your life or whatever it is. Like I don't know. I randomly pulled that out of my head because I do like, I do like oatmeal even though I don't make it every day. But I think any topic could be fodder for an essay.

It's really about why are you writing it and what do you want the reader to take away from it? And what have you learned about yourself through writing it that you're trying to have come across? And I think some people are more naturally suited to that. But I think anyone could figure out how to do that. And sometimes people do ask in classes or I've seen people asking like, oh, my life is, kind of boring like I don't have a wild you know near the death experience and like that's okay like it's really I think sometimes the more common experiences are relatable like have you ever had a breakup or lost a job or you know wanted something to happen it didn't work out or again like

that Wall Street Journal series like you changed your mind about something I think yeah I think anything could be framed in a way that is essay fodder it's just about how you approach it and what you as a writer do with it. And I think that's why I don't think I'll ever get bored editing essays because people, I'm interested in people and people are interesting to me. Yeah. And is that why, so you've been talking about how they're very personal essays, was that the reasoning behind calling it open secrets? That title was something I had sort of batted around if I ever put out an essay collection because the topics that I've written about that have really, I think, gotten the most reaction from people are about things like hoarding or about,

you know, filing for bankruptcy or like kind of things that or sexuality. I used to write a sex column for the village voice are about things that other people find hard to talk about in public, like money, you know, intimacy, mental health hoarding. And to me, having, them open, having them out in the world actually makes me feel better about myself. Like, like it takes away some of the shame, especially hoarding. Like, I thought about writing about it for a long time before I did. And then I had an essay in Salon in 2011. And honestly, like, just just the writing of it and then knowing it was going to be published, I felt like, okay, I don't have to pretend that I don't have this thing that I grapple with or that I have

my whole life under control. And so for me, like that premise of open secrets, which we are much looser now in terms of not every essay is necessarily about something we're taught to keep secret. But I think the spirit of that is in all of our essays and that people are sharing something that is a little bit vulnerable, that is a little, that takes a little bit of courage or maybe a lot of courage to share. And I think that is the DNA of open secrets, that it's about topics that either were officially taught by, you know, society or family that we shouldn't talk about because they're too personal or about things that we have just happened to not really

have shared with many people, but that we want to share. And again, like, I'm never forcing people to write about things they don't want to. And sometimes people will send me an essay and I'll say, like, can you go deeper into this experience? And they say, you know what? I don't feel comfortable. Like that was as far as I'm willing to go. And I'll say, you know, this is a good topic and a good essay, but it's just not exactly where I would want it to be for open secrets, but I hope you'll publish it somewhere else. So, you know, I'm not an editor who's ever trying to strong-arm people into over sharing because that first of all like I ethically like I wouldn't feel comfortable with that but I'm not I don't want people to come to the site just because we're sharing you know clickbait or we're

like going too far in any direction but I think a lot of people similarly to me like find it cathartic to write about these things and in a space that they know is welcoming you know we we don't like if someone is posting you know hateful comments I will delete them It's only happened once, thankfully. But I do try to create a space that is inviting for readers and writers and that I want writers to come away, having had a good experience publishing with me. And I think writers do crave, I mean, I think all artists, they want feedback. Like, they want to feel like their work is being read or heard and, like, grappled with.

And our comment sections are sometimes really beautiful. And people are sharing, like, I would say, they even, you would call them mini essays sometimes in there, like deep reveals in the comment sections about, you know, sex work or childhood abuse or financial insecurity or whatever. I think the more vulnerable you are as a writer, the more you invite other people to be vulnerable because they know that they're not alone. Yes. Yeah, I totally agree. There's something I always came back to is there's a quote about how like, shame can only exist in a vacuum. So like when you're just keeping it to yourself and it's like stuck

inside you, it has so much power. And I it's not like it's it's hyperbole to say that once you talk about something, it doesn't have as much power over you. But it makes a really, really big difference in most cases. And I think the difference with the writer is that you get to control how you talk about it. Now you don't get to control how other people talk about it. And I've been thinking about this a lot because with the whole Lindy West and how her husband has been perceived, I have an essay coming out. I don't want to say the exact topic, but it is about my relationship and my boyfriend doesn't come across the greatest. Now, it's all about stuff that we've discussed and that he knows that I wrote it. I don't think he's read it yet, but I'm prepared

for like the internet to be like, oh, he sounds like a terrible person and why are you with him and blah, blah, And I hope that I countered some of those arguments within the essay. But that's one that I felt like I wanted to talk about because, A, I think it's about a relationship issue that is pretty common based on like talking with friends. And also it's something that like keeps coming up in our relationship. And those are the kinds of things where like when I'm trying to figure out what should I write about, those are the things that will stand out to me of like, okay,

this is there's something here and it's not just like a random like this happened in the end like it's it's really something that I'm working through. And so yeah, and I feel like I I wish I had more time for my own writing because I have ideas and I will write the ideas down. But because I'm doing a lot of other projects, I'm like, oh, I'll write that later. So I'll do a burst of writing like usually in the middle of the night like when I just can't push it back anymore. But I love writing about my life, but I have a lot of empathy for the partners of essay and memoir writers and the family members because they didn't necessarily consent to being written about. But I think everyone has the right to tell their story. And those family members or partners also have the right to tell their story too.

Yeah. You know, no one is saying that it's the final word. I would never say that my version of the truth is, you know, the capital T truth because of course, is fallible and I'm one person sharing my own experience. Like I'm sharing my feelings and those are just my feelings and perspective. They're not anyone else's. Yeah. There's also, I definitely have flirted with the idea of writing a memoir. I was kind of like chronicling my experience in therapy via a blog and then my mom sent me a letter saying she would sue me if I didn't take it down. That's rough.

And yeah, and I was, I was young and very broke. And so I did. And now, now I'm like, I know, I know there are still ways to do it. But I was, I was really scared at the time. But one of the quotes that was really meaningful to me back then from Anne Lamont is the one about, like, if you wanted to be written about fondly, it's essentially like you should have acted fondly. Yes. Or if you want people to think of you, yeah. I feel like that quote comes up a lot.

And I do also always forget it. it. But I mean, I think, you know, and this, this is a question that came up last year at my conference, Open Secrets Live. And I'm, I mean, it comes up all the time of like, what do we owe people who were writing about? And do we have to be beholden to what they would want us to do? And I mean, I think on one level, you're never going to please another person, 100% with what you write about them, even if you're praising them because your perspective of them is not their perspective of them. And like you're each separate people, even if you like or love each other. And then if you have a fraught relationship, that's a whole other can of worms.

But I still think you're entitled to write about your life. I think ethically, you have to ask yourself, like, why you're writing about your life. Is it to, you know, grapple with it and make sense of it on the page? Is it maybe to impart lessons that you wish you'd known that maybe could help someone else? Or is it to basically bad mouth or like get revenge on someone? And I guess technically that's your. right to do that the latter. But I try very hard to think about like who might be hurt by this. And, um, you know, is that a risk I'm willing to take? Like, and, and am I being honest? Like,

am I being emotionally honest? And I do have an essay. I want to write about my mom's dementia and my experience of it, which I know it could be hurtful to her if I write it the way I want to write it. But I'm not going out of my way to be hurtful. And I'm not trying to be. but there's a lot of truths in being a caregiver and especially being a sandwich generation caregiver that I know other people experience because I have a lot of friends in similar situations. And I think we're all really hungry for both validation and stories about that. And I read many memoirs about, you know, children who are caregivers for their parents. And I would read more. Like, I mean, I had to stop at a certain point because I was like it was too many at once.

But I think that role is so taxing, especially as a dementia caregiver, that we really can't have enough stories about that. And I think the same goes for mental health issues. I think the same goes for parent-child relationships in general. Like, I think there's certain evergreen topics that we can never have too many books or essays about because there are things that people are always dealing with in one form or another. And so that's what I tell people. like you know no one really can answer the question for you of should you write this because you have to at the end of the day you're the it's your name on it even if you use a pseudonym like you're the one who knows you wrote that and you're the one who will have to deal with any potential fallout and I think you have to think about like is that fallout worth it to you versus what you would gain and by gain I don't mean like fame or a book deal I mean those are nice to you. things to have potentially, maybe not, given Felina Denham famesick trajectory. But, you know, those are things that it's nice to have. But it's a double-edged sword to put your life out there.

Even for me, like, I've always used my real name. I mean, I have published under a pseudonym a handful of times, but almost all my work is under my given name, which is my family member's last name. You know, I'm findable. Like, it is not always like a barrel of laughs to be that vulnerable. But I, for me, the rewards vastly, vastly outweigh any negative issues. But I think you do have to think about privacy. If you have a job, you have to think about how it might impact your job. And in fact, or even jobs you might want in the future. Yes. And custody battles, which you might not even thought about. I mean, I'm about to take down a video from my old erotic reading series that I think was published like 17 years ago. Someone literally just asked me, you know, I'm in a difficult situation

with someone and it's causing problems having that online. And of course, like, that's fine. I'm not going to be a monster and say. Oh, yeah. But like, this is such a long time ago. And like, you know, things, especially if they're published online, do live pretty much forever. So I think you have to think about that. And there are outlets, like, that's why we open secrets. I, chose to allow pseudonyms because I never wanted someone to feel like they had to choose between telling their truths and their livelihood or their relationship or whatever. And we haven't done it too many times, but that is an option. And I think there are other outlets that allow it, not every single one, but if you really have a story that you feel strongly, you want to tell,

but you know you don't feel comfortable or legally can't or whatever do it under your given name. Like I think you can find a way to do it that satisfies both those needs. Yeah. I always, there's a quote I talk about all the time. Everyone's like, yes, Kate, we know. That be who you needed when you were younger. And that is what a lot when I think about writing about my experiences. That's what stands out to me because it was literally.

because of a subreddit called Raised by Narcissus that I found in college that I was like, oh, I'm not crazy. And like, it is okay that my feelings are hurt in these situations. Like, I kind of gained my first, like, ounce of agency by hearing other people's stories of going through what I had been going through. And I think that's, that's like one of the big things that always stands out to me is you can be the person you needed back then sometimes by telling your story. I love that quote. And I'm going to recommend a book to you. I'm in the middle of it.

And like I am, I'm like wishing I just had like, I'm going to try to finish it this weekend because it's so well written. It's called Destroy This House by Amanda. I think her name is pronounced Uly, U H-L-E. And it keeps reminding me of the glass castle because her mom was a hoarder. And her dad was an inventor who became a Lutheran pastor. And basically like their house. She kept having these dreams of destroying their house for years, for like eight years until she went to college. Because the mom would buy not just fabric, but like food, like food was just everywhere.

And they would leave the food out and say, oh, maggots, you just scrape them off. And like also the mom would tell her super inappropriate things. Like, oh, you should give boys hand jobs because if they get blue balls, like they'll never recover. Like just, I mean, that is just two examples of like there's so many more, like super narcissistic. and just selfish and problematic things that both of her parents did. But the writing is both like funny and just really smart and interesting. And it's really about how she and her like navigated that and, you know, the different experiences she had with her little brother.

And it's just so like the scenes where she's describing like the food everywhere, which is a recurring theme, which she had to like, you know, as a kid, she didn't know any better. And then over time, she starts to learn, wait. Like, not everyone has their food so much of it that it can't all fit in the fridge and they're leaving it out and in the car or whatever. And it's just so, it's such an interesting journey because it's really about both the way her parents didn't change and the way she changed and or what, you know, grew up around

that, but didn't succumb to it. And then, you know, I'm at the part towards the end where she goes to college and it's discovering a whole other world of like culture and things. But I would definitely say if you were raised by a narcissist, you would like, you would either like this book or find it relatable. And like, it's an interesting thing to read, especially memoir, but I see it in fiction too now as a mom. Like sometimes I'm like, hmm, are all parents just like waiting like waiting for a future where their child's going to write a memoir about them? Like, are we the ones who have to behave perfectly so that our kids don't write memoirs about us?

And that is a super, like, no one's perfect. Like, we cannot live up to, like, that standard. But when you read a lot of memoir, like, you realize how sometimes, like, what might have seemed to the parent an offhand comment. I'm not talking about, like, what you're probably talking about or ongoing patterns. I'm talking about, like, yes, this is just, you know. But I think that, like, when you, and that's, I think that's again, like what we're saying, where memoir can really impact you.

I don't even remember the line exactly at this moment, but there's this memoir slip by Mallory to Nora Tarpley about her eating disorder from the age of, I think, 12 when her mom passed away through now, and what she calls the messy middle of being mostly recovered, but still like not 100% in that middle space. But there was a line that her mom said when she was something like eight years old,

and I don't even remember exactly what it was about, but I just remember reading that being like, oh, wow, like she remembers that so clearly. And it wasn't about weight. I think it was about cleaning the house. And it just made me realize, like, we do retain certain things that probably the person saying it doesn't know that we're retaining that. And I think, I mean, you know, how to be a good parent is a whole other topic. But I think, like, it's not about any one single sentence that you say. It's about your overall what you're.

you bring to the table as a person. And like, you know, one random thing that you say among thousands is not necessarily doesn't make you a bad parent. But it's about like what environment you create. And like, I mean, definitely like reading this, destroy this house. Like I feel like a great parent because I'm like, like, I'm not leaving spoiled food around and telling my child to eat it. And I'm not doing that. And then I'm like, Rachel, that's a really low bar. Like that is not the standard. You're still clearing it. But again, like, I think it's like a lot of people have gone through really traumatic

childhoods and I don't think they all need to write a memoir. But I think if you have been thinking about it for a long time, like, I mean, I think if you want to write memoir or essays, you should, even just for yourself. Like, because it's different than a diary. Because I feel like a diary or journal, you're writing to yourself. So there's a shorthand that you don't have to explain what this was. that was. But when you're writing for the public, like, you do have to set a scene and you do have to revisit those scenes and, like, people are characters in the sense of they only are known by what

you put on the page. And so you have to think about, like, what are the formative things for you that you want people, both you want people to know and that are important to the story that you're telling? And I did an interview with this writer Courtney Kosak recently. She has a memoir on essays girl on wild she was talking about how um you know she she was just talking about her approach to including family and she said um that you know there were some family members that weren't really in the book because a they weren't really relevant to the story she was telling but it doesn't mean she doesn't have a strong relationship with them and i think sometimes as readers like we assume that everything about a person's life is on the page and that's not necessarily the case and

Courtney said something about talking about her abortion in her book and how she she framed it for herself as, okay, is like, you know, my dad's reaction to my abortion, how that impacted me is relevant to the book. His general, you know, maybe thoughts on abortion as a topic, maybe not. Or like, you know, whose story are you telling? Because we're never just telling our own story because we're, right. Even, you know, even if you're a hermit, like the story of how you got to be a hermit probably relates to other people in your life. So like, we're always going to be including other people

in our work. And I don't think that's a bad thing. But I think you, you do have to think about what story you're telling about them. And I try to tell people like, you have to bring it back to you. It might sound narcissistic, but you're an authority on you. Like, you're not an authority on what they were thinking. You're an authority on what you were thinking about what they did. Yes. Yeah. Like you're the, you're the only, you're the only one who can tell your perspective and you can't tell anyone else's perspective. Right. And I, and I think like you can have empathy for someone or not empathy. You can have, you know, you can try to understand where they, why they did the things they did like in this, destroy this house. She kind of is trying to understand why her parents did these things. But A, they're dead. So she can't, you know, she can't go and ask them. But also she's, you know, she's grappling with. with what she knows about them as a fact and what she has to surmise. And then she's also talking about what it was like to be raised by people who, you know, as time goes on, she realizes, like, I'm very different from them.

And I don't understand why they do these things that they're presenting as totally normal that really aren't. And I think memoir gives us an opportunity as writers and readers to be in those headspaces. And we're not always in those headspaces in our day-to-day lives. because like we're busy. Even if we tell a story to a friend, it's sort of more of a, even if maybe it's an ongoing thing

if you're talking to a friend about this over time. But like even if you're just catching up with a friend and telling them one snapshot of something, when you have a memoir, you have so much space to really get into what happened before and after and how those things are all connected. Yeah, totally. Well, with your event, what was,

what was the inspiration for that? And yeah, so open tickets live. It's really a writing conference. I call it a personal storytelling summit because I think of a conference as like, you know, breakout rooms and you're, you're right.

The audience is doing something and we're all just listening to the same set of speakers in a room. Okay. But I had that idea pretty early on of wanting to do something social. I used to run a reading series. Like I am a social person and, you know, coming out of COVID, like a couple years post the pandemic.

I thought it would be cool. But it was really, so I started Open Secrets in April, 2023, and then I became a mom in August 2024. Pretty soon after that, I just decided, you know what? It's kind of like now or never. Why not see if I can run a conference? And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. And I found an assistant who's now our managing editor, Farah Faye,

who I planned it with. And, you know, we found a venue. We found this last year. We found this site peer space, which is like an Airbnb for venues. And then I just started asking writers, hey, you know, you write about family or mental health. Like, would you be on this panel? And most people said yes or like, I can't make it, but that sounds cool.

And it really, I wasn't planning to make it an annual event, but it went so wonderfully. Like there was just such energy in the air. People, it just felt like the biggest feedback I got was it inspired people to write, which is like so heartwarming to me. almost as that and like someone telling me that they read a book I recommended or like the biggest compliments you could give me. So that felt so good. And then, you know, I was just seeing books that were coming out after last years and into 2026. And, and, and I think what really pushed me was I got a publicist pitch by from a memoir by Sarah Hartshorn about being on

America's next top model being the plus size contestant. It's called, I think it's called, do you want to be on top? And I thought, wow, like, if someone is pitching me about an event that hasn't even been announced that I don't even know if I'm doing it, there's probably interest in it. And so I started thinking about, okay, like, who else would I want to have on? And what's really cool about that event is that there's over 40 speakers and they're all, I think, like, very smart and very, you know, their memoirs go there in terms of, of sharing something like we were just talking about something vulnerable.

Right. And just like I get to geek out about books. Like that was just so cool to me like both the conference itself but also just getting to sit and chat with this woman like Carmen Rita Wong who wrote this memoir, why didn't you tell me that I read and my dad read and I got to just like sit and chat with her about like I really loved your book. And like just being able to tell someone I really loved your book. It was so cool and giving that opportunity.

to other people. And there were a lot of people who had worked with other people or read other people's books who were saying, oh, it's so great to meet you in person. And I feel really proud and honored that I can create an in-person space that does that. And I realize it's, you know, limited in that we're in New York City. There's a cost to it. Not everyone can attend this one event, but we are going to be posting audio of the panels that as long as the speakers give me permission and some video clips. And I mean, in my dream world, if we had enough funding and I have time and, you know, child care, I would love to like take it around the country,

not necessarily as a day-long conference, but maybe a storytelling event or something. Right. Because it is really exciting to also hear different memoirists covering similar ground, talk to each other about what that was like and see what they have in common and what they don't have in common, both on the craft of writing and like how they're, or books were received by their publishers

and received by the public. And I'm so excited. And, you know, I'm already in my head planning one for next year. It's not like guaranteed. But I would love to be able to do it as long as I can afford it. And as long as there's enough writers, which I have no doubt that there will always be enough memoir authors. Because like I'm always geeking out about like what memories are coming out in

27, like which ones are on my list. like I'm that book nerd where I have somewhat limited reading time, but like when I'm up at night and have insomnia, like I will be combing the internet of like hot memoirs coming out, you know, in the fall or whatever. Just because I love the feeling of like anticipating a book. And sometimes when I'm depressed or just struggling and I'm like, oh, my life sucks. Like I'm so frustrated with everything. And like I'll either look forward to a trip and or a book that's coming out in the future. And like sometimes that is like, the hope I hold on to, like, okay, everything sucks right now and I'm, like, frustrated with myself or my life or whatever, but, like, this book is coming out and I'm so excited to read it. And, like, that just gives me something to look forward to. And planning this event is kind of like that. Like, it gives me something to look forward to. And I hope it also helps people get published. We have an editor's panel with four book editors and an editor from the New York Times

Modern Love and Tiny Love Stories and an editor from Slate. And last year, editors really shared, I would say, concrete ways to impress them and things they are and aren't looking for. And, you know, I think what's something really cool this year is that several of the book editors have their authors speaking on panels too. And some of them, that's how I found either the editor or I found the author through the editor. So like, I'm excited for them to get to hear their authors talk too. And yeah. So it's just, it feels really special. And it's a pretty small venue. It's 169 seats so it's not you're not like going to be up in the bleachers you know not able to see um so yeah i'm just it feels like i mean i love the internet and i love that you know i published and

you know have been readership around the world but it is really nice also just as a social person especially i don't really have that published community i live in the suburbs and i'm in a book club but like i don't really have literary events that i go to on a regular basis so to be able to run one is very gratifying for me as a book nerd. You were headed toward some, we have some big similarities when I started my podcast, 2021, so it is like five years now. But it was kind of like we, my husband and I, we create content for our clients. So we had all the equipment. We were producing other people's podcasts and that I loved books so much. And I was like, wait, could I reach out to authors and would I be able to interview them? And I just had no idea. And I reached out to six of them

and like five of them said yes. And I was like, okay, I guess I'm doing this. So I got it started. But I'm I'm introverted. I am too, by the way. That's what I was going to kind of ask you to is like I'm introverted. So like I knew I wanted to talk to authors about books because that sounded fascinating to me. And then it was like a few months in where then I was meeting readers on the internet too and I was like getting these like very fulfilling relationships especially in an introverted sense because a lot of people don't always know about the difference between introverts and extroverts it's about how you recharge so it's not that you're an introvert and you never want to see a person it's just like when you really are getting worn down you may not even want

to be with your favorite person is kind of more what it is for me exactly and this relates to the conference because I have to say like it was so exciting and it was like this just like burst of adrenaline and actually in the middle of it my agent was there and um because i am i'm just it's a book podcast i'm going to throw it out into the world that i'm working on a book proposal about an anthology about our attachments to our belongings same topic as my podcast and she was like are you you have to do one next year this is so great and i got so like overwhelmed and then when other people would say that like are you doing one next year i was just like i literally can't think about that i'm so like maxed out and then no right now i just like after i got home

home, I was so exhausted, like, physically and mentally that, like, I still have the audio files from last year that I haven't posted yet because I just, like, couldn't face all the things I had planned to do around it. Like, I just was so burned out. So I'm, this year, I'm more organized and I'm like trying to, you know, make sure I don't burn out because I, I want to retain the energy of it, but it is a lot of work. Like, I, it is more work than I ever thought it would be. but events or i mean there's reasons people go to like college and people said to me like don't have 40 speakers have 30 and i was trying like i just want to be clear i was trying to keep it smaller like more intimate like four or five people on a panel but like i'm such a like i just i do love people i do love books and like i would hear about a book or i would talk to someone i'm like oh you could be on this panel or this would fit here and so like yes the family panel has six speakers instead of five for all the others because there were so many good ones I was like, how could I say, no, this one can't be on it because we have too many people. I mean, eventually I had to because you can't have like 10 people on a panel. But I mean, in my head, if I had infinite amount of an infinite amount of money in time, like I would do a two-day conference or a three-day conference or something bigger. But like I do like the one day because I feel like it's more accessible. But would I love to do something bigger?

Would I love to chore with this? I do half have in my head have plans to do like a West Coast version or at least like Portland when I visit family. do it there and maybe LA, like I went to LA just for fun and I went to a comedy show at this place Dynasty Typewriter and I was like, ooh, this would be a great setting, you know, like a small theater. Like I am, I do scope around and like if I hear about someone doing something cool. But for me it's fulfilling both like my extroverted side, but then also my introvert. Like I don't have to be around people for, you know, weeks at a time. It's like one day of extreme extroversion. and then I can go home and write and be like more private.

Yeah. Yeah, it's like I saw a sticker. I need to get it. But I was, you know, trying to put myself on a sticker hiatus that was like extroverted but only for books. And I was like, that is it. And actually that's in some of that.

I read a book. I can't remember who the author's name is now, but I read it back when I was in college and it's called Quiet. And it's all about like the difference. Yes, yes. It's all about the differences between an introverted and. extroverted brain and then what that means for your experience, your life experience. But she also talks about how like introverts, when they're talking about a subject that they love,

like they will seem like extroverts. Like you and I today. Like us. Like we could keep talking for another 90 minutes probably. And that's always stuck with me because that is what it is. Some of it is that small talk is just very boring for me. Not that I can't do it, but it's boring. and then sometimes I'm going to like wear out because I'm just not like connecting with the person. And so then like with my experience with starting the podcast, I was like, wait, I was similar to when you said you're in the suburbs. I wasn't meeting people in real life who read as much as me. And especially until the last two years, I was mostly mysteries and thrillers. So that like narrowed it down even more.

I wasn't running into people who were reading what. I read. So then it was so cool that the internet could connect me with people who were big readers or who really liked mystery thrillers. And then as I got to know more authors, then I got more reader friends. And so now I do author episodes on Tuesday and like reader episodes on Fridays or like buddy episodes is what I kind of call them. And then I started going to my first like book events, which is like I never thought I would. I'm like, I'm introverted. This is the perfect way to do it. I have a podcast. I can talk to people when I want to. And then I went to one and I was like, there is the like collective effervescence of like being with other people who get joy from books.

I love that word effervescence. And I'm like, I might steal it. I'm like with credit to you. But because like that really was not my true. It's the psychological term. But that really was what it was like at this conference that I, you know, open see if it's live. Like it really was just this energy in the air, not any one specific speaker or something someone said. It was just like, I'm talking about like in the whole. way when people were buying books and getting them signed and just, oh, it's so cool to meet you or, you know, I know you from online. And I love the internet. Like, I mean, we wouldn't be connecting without the internet. I listen to podcasts. I read tons. I mean, I'm on the line, you know,

when I'm not watching my daughter most of the time. But that doesn't supplant the need to, like, connect with people for me in person. Like, not everyone needs that. But I do need it sometimes in a limited capacity. And now that you just told me about mysteries and thrillers, like, I'm not going to take up your whole podcast talking about that but i would geek out about that like i don't know i don't know it's become it's become the the default like fiction category that i read and i i love it like not every i mean i don't love every single one i've read but like i love that there's so many options within it and i am going to shout out one of my favorite authors jennifer hillyer do you know her um i'm sorry for hillyer she oh yes we talk about her a lot here i really love her work and when i saw

She has a new one coming out this year and I was like, oh. And like that was one of those where I was like, yes, like one of my favorite authors has a new book coming out. I'm so excited. Yes. I know when I'm like hating how like it is like 80 in humid here already. And I'm like, oh, I hate. I'm not like a huge fan of summer in general. And so then I'm like, well, hers comes out in August.

I got it wrong. I thought hers came out in September. But there are some fall books that literally it's the books where I'm like, you're going to get through the heat and there are going to be all these fall books. so I totally understand. I have ADHD and like part of how I manage that is like I have things I'm working on now, but like when those get too overwhelming, I will look to like future topics and plans. So I do have a wish list of 2027 speakers and it's been fun to like go on, you know, publishers marketplace and like see whose memoirs are coming out in 20 or plan to come out in

2027 and like I'm always like combing, you know, websites about that because it does, it is exciting. I think if you're a book nerd and, and, I don't want to say only new books are where we should prioritize because there's so many obviously already published books that, you know, get left behind, you know, once the hype dies down. Like, I like reading older books too. But it is, I think there's an excitement to books coming out.

And like, I like to say, like, would I love to make more money? Yes. And we're actually going to be doing like a pledge drive at Open Secrets because I do need to like start generating more donations. But I feel rich in books. And like, yes. I kind of want to say I'd rather be rich in books than rich in. I'd rather like, I'd rather be rich in both or not like, you know, rich, but like, you know, whatever.

But like, you know, I love being rich in books in the sense of like I can get a galley if I want one. And I don't, I try not to abuse that. I don't ask for like every book I ever want to read. But if I think I might write about it, which I love writing about books in interesting ways. Like I wrote a article for The Washington Post Book World once about books with long subtitles. And it was just like that idea came from looking at W. Camel Bell's memoir and seeing this really long subtitle. And now it feels cool because I was just at the library.

I think I took a picture of it. I don't remember the title. But like I saw a book with a huge subtitle, like probably 20 words. And I was just like, wow. And I learned that a lot of it is SEO. But like also sometimes it's the author just wanting to have all like, you know, their book covers these different topics. And so I do write about book trends as a journalist.

And I love that. Like I love just figuring out. like what's happening in books as a whole and like why is it happening and I just I could talk about that stuff all day. That's why like when you were like quiet and even though I haven't read that book, I'm like Susan Cain like that knowledge just is. I'm like if there was a book Jeopardy, I would be pretty good at it. Yeah. I'm pretty much the same way. And I get you start to like have even more like connections to the books. Like when you're saying you're like, oh, I wrote an article about long subtitles and then you see it or like the the first time because like I can remember if I said this yeah

it was while we were recording I mostly it I just am and Kindle I'm a digital and audio reader so it's like I also hadn't gone in bookstores a ton a few years like a few years ago it wasn't like on my radar as much and the first time we went into one like the whole time I was just like just showing my husband I was like they've been on the podcast and they've been on the podcast it's exciting on the podcast and it feels like you're you're like oh these are my friends it is exciting to have you read the Assassin's Anonymous series by rob heart oh yes okay so i just scheduled him for the third one that comes out three hit and then and a baby well first of all he's really nice and he's like we've become friends through various bookish things but i was just at a bookstore on vacation in bentonville

arkansas and i saw assassins anonymous on the shelf and i was like that's so cool like i've both read that and really liked it and i know him like it's just it is like visiting your friends whether you're actually friends with them or not. Like when I feel like when you really love a book, like the way I love that, do what Godmother says. Like I gave so many people that book and I, like, I feel like every year there's a book where I'm like,

this book is the one I want everyone to read. And the year before, I think it was year before. It was when no one was watching by Alyssa Cole. I thought that was so smart and brilliant. And I gave it to people who I don't even think normally read fiction, but I thought they would get something out of it because it straddles so many different elements of it.

Fictions. Yeah. And it's like that is always finding ones that you, that really could be, because obviously if you read mystery thrillers, you also know one of the big like ranges of the genre is how dark or gory or like really just that. It's like you're not going to like I wouldn't recommend King of Ashes to like beginner thrillers. Or like a cozy mystery reader.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's always fun when you find one that you're like, I think I can kind of recommend this to a lot of different readers. Like that's always fun to find. And I have a couple family members who they don't read all the same things I read, but like I'm into Rispoen. I don't know if you know her British, they're these British, she has two, she has three series, but I've read two of them. One is, one is set in early 20th century New York and one is set in like 1920s-ish Britain. And so I got,

I've gotten some family members into those series. And it's really cool to like, you know, keep up with a series with other people. Like, did you see that there's a new one out? And I think reading is very solitary, but it can also be social and like a way to bond with people. And I think whether you're in a book club officially and like talking about the book or just geeking out about like we both like this element of a book. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's another thing that I keep talking about. There's a girl on, I mean, she's a woman. I say girl. also so frequently on. I mean, in theory, I got a woman sounds wrong in some context. Yes. But I can't remember what, no nonsense spirituality is what her account is. But she did a, she did the series on how some people were like, are atheists less happy? And she took the approach of showing like

the four things that religion has done for us from. evolutionary perspective and it's like the ability to be introspective um collective experiences uh i can't remember all of them but the point being i got to a point where i was like books hey well sorry let me finish that thought her tic talk is some atheists are perfectly happy because they find atheists or agnostics um they they fulfill the things that religion has evolutionarily fulfilled for us and then if you don't don't fulfill like those areas of your life. That's where you often get the ones that are like so angry that almost like they're religious about their atheism. And when I was reading it, I was like, oh, like books have replaced those things for me. And so even like the collective

effervescence I was talking about and like the community, like I love a wider, broader perspective. I would say I'm probably agnostic, but of, of spirituality and then of what church can mean. And so, like, I have like, there's a bookstore. I'm in Indiana. And there's a bookstore that started putting on book events and they are killing it now. Like I used to drive to Chicago, so like three or four hours to like sometimes go to some book events. And they are having like two to four authors a week sometimes. I'm seeing Sally Hepworth. Yeah, they're having Sally Hepworth on this upcoming Monday. I just saw Jane Harper there last week. Um, so they're amazing. And it's like that for me, like, it feels like I'm in church with those people from a like very spiritual, non-religious

perspective. And it like, it just means a lot to me. I totally get that. And I think like, it's funny when I became a mom, I said to myself, like, I'm not going to push my interest on my child. But like, I did teach my daughter like at a very like a couple months old, you know, turn the page. And like, she could turn by like six months. And now like sometimes she's year and a half. She wakes up and her first word is book and she wants, she doesn't just want me to read to her. Sometimes she does,

but she'll want to go sit in a special spot she has and like look at her books herself. And it's like the cutest thing, but also so like I didn't realize how much like that would mean to me as like someone who's always loved books to have a child who also likes books. And now we, she looks at my books when I'm, you know, if I'm reading.

And she knows that there's. a photo of the author usually inside and it's really cool she doesn't obviously know what that means exactly but you know we look at the author photo and i say what their name is and it's it's just like i like to normalize that for her and that she she'll know like she'll see me with a book um you know sometimes she'll see it across the room and bring it over to me and just say like mama and it's like so cute and that's adorable yeah so like i i said that basically because i think like book people whether you started at a young age or didn't like we'll totally understand what you just said about both spaces feeling like a church or like a sacred place yeah yeah and in their in most cases

i'll say that caveat in most cases they do feel what you're saying like a safe space and an inclusive space in most cases i have been reading some books this year just to get perspectives that are completely not my own. So I won't say that every book is like that. But I think a lot of them are. I will. I think, I think sometimes about like if you just browse my bookshelves, like, what would

you think? You would probably think like what is happening. But I do have, I do own a few books by people who I absolutely do not agree with because I wanted to read their perspective like Linda Tripp. And, you know, it is, I mean, I learned a lot from her book. I learned, I mean, things I, not that I wish I didn't know, but like, I do. think books can also be a window into how people very different from us approach the world. And that can be helpful because, like, I don't live in a bubble and only surround, like, I don't

only encounter people who think the way I do. So it actually was helpful to me. I mean, also disturbing. But, like, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not so glad I own it because I did pay money for it, but I'm glad that I read it because it, it did inform things for me that I kind of come across before. Yeah. I read toxic empathy by Alliebeth Stucky for that kind of reason. I checked it out from the library because I was able to and I was like, okay, at least I don't have to buy it.

And it was same thing. There are parts where I was like, I can't even believe what I'm reading right now, but at least I know that this is what a lot of people believe. Yeah. Yeah. It's a whole spectrum. And I don't think it should be banned either. I think I think those books should still exist too.

And then we can just all consciously consume them however we want to. I mean, going back to like my shirt about book bans is like I think like you should be able to read what you want. And like I think the people who are trying to ban books, they're missing that like their child might disagree with the book that they read. Like they're not, it's not like they're trying to brainwash you by having you read a book. They're trying to have you read and think about it and consider it. Yeah. And, you know, have an opinion about it. not like you agree with every single word in it.

Right. Yeah. I completely agree. The conversation lacks nuance on the side of people who are just wanting to like blanket ban stuff. There could be more to the conversation. Definitely. Well, obviously we could just have a conversation for like three more hours, I'm sure. So if people, so people can follow your substack.

OpenSecretsmagine.com is the magazine. I have my own sporadically updated one, Rachel Pimerbustle.substack.com. OpenSecrets. OpenSecretts. It's also on Instagram, Open SecretsMag. Our event is sold out, but it is on May 2nd in New York, and there is a waitlist. So if you go to Open Secretsmagizing.com and click on Open Secrets Live at the top, you can get the waitlist information. And if you subscribe or even if you don't, like, we will be releasing audio.

And on May 2nd, we will. be pretty active on Instagram. Someone's going to be like live posting like clips and highlights and maybe some behind the scenes little interviews with speakers and just kind of capturing as much as possible of what is happening. And you know, and we also do author Q&As. We have an online book club. It's not so much book club. Like we're not, we do a little bit of a chat, but mostly I interview the authors. And sometimes people will write an essay that, you know, strikes a chord or that I think deserves like a little, you know, more depth. So I'll do a Q&A with them and to continue the conversation. So, you know, we're constantly kind of evolving and I'm trying

to just offer both those essays and a community. Like I'm really trying to build as much community online and offline as possible because I think there isn't, I think people want that. I think people crave that both about personal essays and other topics. And, you know, I'm trying to, offer that as much as I can within the world of open secrets. Yeah. I do always ask at the end, and you've given us lots of recommendations, but is there anything recently that you've really loved that you read or just like any book that you always recommend to people? Well, the Glass Castle is definitely like one of my gold standard memoirs. Um, thriller-wise, do what Godmother says. Um, my Lest Jaten is like high up there for me. Um,

romance. I also like Alyssa Cole a lot. I like Sierra Simone. And I feel like just like my ADHD. And because I've been jumping around reading like 10 different memoirs, there is a memoir that I started that I'm going to, I'm reading for, well, like two speakers at Open Secrets. I feel like now I'm picking and choosing. There's so many speakers. But oh, I know, it's so hard. I'm laughing because I'm crying by young me, Mayer, who's a comedian. She's, big on TikTok and it's it's an intense but very smartly interestingly done memoir about family trauma and and marriage and other topics and then I have not fully dealt into this but if you want a more lighthearted take but also about some serious topic man boobs which I literally just wanted to

read it based on the name man boobs man boobs by comail I'm not sure exactly how to say his last name. I just said and that one I think is a really fun one. I mean, fun phrasing. I had not heard of the same. The topics are not all fun. But yeah. But like if you were looking for memoir suggestions, we have a, if you go to Open Secrets, go to our About page. We have like a bookshop affiliate. I've put all our contributors' books and our speakers books and then some other topics that I'm just interested in. And we have some like a round of a 2020. memoirs and essay collections that, that,

you know, we're recommending because I'm always on the lookout. But for current read, the one I'm like really just obsessed with right now is this, destroy this house by Amanda Yuley, UH.L.A. and if any of what I said about it,

piques your curiosity. I would say, like, definitely check it out. I got it from my library and it's, it's wild. Like her parents were definitely like, you're like, really? like, you know, they would just move instead of, like, paying their bills and they would just throw other bills in the garbage and, like, just, you're like, how did, how is that even possible?

Like, they moved several times and just, like, basically left a lot of their, almost all their stuff, like, behind and started over. And, like, that's how she was raised? So it's just, you're like, how did you grow up and become, like, a successful, you know, writer and, you know, like, you're, you're kind of, like, that's the other thing. I think memoir, there is something triumphant about it when you're writing about. something like that. Like even if you're not writing it like, oh, I survived and I'm, you know, I, if even if the author is not outright saying, like it took a lot to survive, like you get

that as a reader that it took a lot to get through that. And then, you know, come out of it, not bitter and not, you know, and able to make something of your life despite the way you grew up. Yeah. Yeah. I think everyone's wanting to do a little bit of that, even if sometimes we talk about little T trauma versus big T trauma. It's like, I think all of us are not trying to be exactly like how we grew up, even if we have good relationships with our parents. So that is always fascinating to me. Well, I'm so excited that we got connected.

Me too. I'm excited to start reading some of open secrets now too. Thank you. And please, like, based on what you said, please feel free to submit and like no pressure. But we are doing a month of like motherhood. like mom related essays in May. I mean, we, we published them all year long, but like definitely like in May, we do a lot of mental health. We do a lot of motherhood and June, we do a lot of pride and a lot of fatherhood. But I do publish those topics all year long too. So no, no pressure.

But like, I mean, I wish we could publish every day. Like if I had more time and more friends, like I have expanded because there were so many good essays coming in. I was like, I can't wait a whole three months like down the road. Like I want to publish them now. So we do publish sometimes five days a week or four days a week just because there's so much great stuff coming in. That's how I get with books. I will tell myself, you have authors books until June 2nd right now. But then I read something and I'm like, but I want to talk to this person too. And so then I'm just putting out extra episodes randomly.

I can't help myself. There's nothing wrong with that. No, there's not. There's not. Well, thank you for coming on. And I hope everyone else like dives into open secrets too.