Bookwild - Music, Memoirs and Audiobooks with Erin Ashley

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

This week, I'm chatting with a new co-host, Erin Ashley! She shares her interest in memoirs about musicians, how she came to love them as a music journalist, and the fiction she's been trying to read more of this year.Follow Erin here on InstagramAnd subscribe to her Substack for posts and interviews! Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

So we have an exciting episode this week because we have a new co-host kind of joining. Not that you have to, you know, commit to a certain amount of dates. But I'm here with Erin Ashley. And if you want to look her up on Bookstagram or Instagram, she's Bella Metaphor, which is also in the show notes. But I think we got connected through, we don't talk about Carol. Is that how we kind of, yeah. So we got connected through that.

And then we've just been talking off a nonsense. I think we have some similar, I almost said music taste, which maybe that's true too, some similar taste in books. So I'm super excited to talk with you, Erin. Yeah, I'm so excited. Thank you for having me. Yes. So I'm always interested in people's reading journeys because I definitely read a lot, like as a kid.

But like I think I really started reading. like around 19 like in my 20s so what what has like reading been like for you yeah so i would say i've been reading like you know how people when they're singers are like i've been singing my whole life but yeah um i think i've been reading my whole life yeah um so i'm an only child so i think that's like one of the ways i found like my friends and my peers and stuff like that um i also was like a kid who did hilt on phonics so yeah I really liked words. So finding ways to like read about them and incorporate them another stuff was something that my mom did.

So like growing up, I would do like book reports for things just with my mom kind of like going through stuff. And then also where I'm from in Oakland, we used to have a lot of like libraries where they would have book competitions for kids. And I will say I'm kind of competitive. So I would do a lot of those competitions where I would win like a. personal pizza for how much I would read. Yes. Which just kind of kept me reading. So I've been reading basically probably like,

sometimes I've been like four or five. Yeah. Same. I loved those personal pan pizzas. There's like nothing better than getting rewarded for reading with pizzas. Exactly. It's really weird that that was an incentive because they're technically super cheap, but. Yeah.

You're like, whatever. This works for me. I always loved it. have you always or like what genres do you read now and did that like evolve at all like was there a time like i didn't used to read historical fiction and now i do in certain ways so did your reading genres develop at all yeah i would say when i first was reading it was a lot of like goosebumps uh baby throughers club i think as i've grew up i also went through like a really weird fate well it's not weird but it's like that smut phase.

So, like, I was reading, like, a lot of Zane books, which are very technically inappropriate for, like, a middle school student. But I would read those. And I think as I grew older, I started reading, like, a lot of music memoirs. Oh, that's cool. And then I always have read fiction. I feel like I kind of ebb and flow with fiction. So this year I made a conscious effort to, like, read more fiction because I think I'm always

reading a lot of, like, music books about, like, different musicians. So it's kind of ebbed and flowed. I think also this year I've been reading a lot of historical fiction, which is not something that I was reading in the past either. Same. I really surprised myself with that one because like that was what I was like, oh no, never. But for me this year, it was a lot related to audiobooks. So I didn't used to be able to like listen to audiobooks. It just didn't work for me in fiction. And then that shifted for me, I think, around March of this year. And so then that opened, kind of opened me back up to a lot more genres. What it kind of happened with like my podcast was I was, I really only read thrillers when I

started it like four years ago. And so I was kind of in the vein of just like a lot of net galley books that were thriller authors kind of like pitching themselves for the podcast as well. And so then once I got into audiobooks, it was like I all of a sudden remembered that there were so many backlist books. And like Net Calley wasn't the only place to read from. So, but historical fiction was the one that shocked me the most because I was like, I'm never going to get into that. But now like social horror. Well, I just, basically I just reviewed the Buffalo Hunter Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones. And like the last sentence of my review is like this is what social slash historical horror was made for.

So it is like typically that's the kind of historical fiction I'm leaning toward. But it's not always it's not always horror either. But I never thought I'd be reading this much historical fiction. But it's fine. I was going to ask like what is like what type of historical fiction were you reading the most? Because I feel like mine is basically like I feel like I read a lot of historical fiction. around like the Harlem Renaissance or like that but like is yours all over? So lately yeah I would say like do what godmother says I really enjoyed from L.S. Stratton,

which is like Harlem Renaissance time as well. But some of it like Buffalo Hunter Hunter has like a really long span of time because I don't think this isn't a spoiler to say. It's about a Native American who is basically turned into a vampire by white settlers. So, like, his lifespan spans so much time. So that one's, like, it ends in, like, the 1900s when, so there's, like, two POVs for most of it. It's sometime in the early 1900s, he's talking to this priest and confessing, like, what his life has been like. So it reaches into 1920. I can't really remember if it even said like how far back in time it goes.

But the reformatory I really, really, really loves by Tananariv Doe. And that's the 60s. I feel like I am kind of around the 60s kind of often. But then also like Juney, I think we may have talked about it. Still one of my favorite audiobooks I've ever listened to as well. Also haven't read it yet. Yeah. And that one's like 80s.

1960s. So it's kind of, it is kind of everywhere. Okay. No, that's, I think that's next on my list. Like, I keep seeing it. It's really sitting right there. So I need to do it. Oh, my gosh. I just, I really loved it. And without, without giving anything away, like the author, even, she has some really good TikToks where she, like, explains what it is, but she considers it, like, a southern, gothic, historical horror, basically. But again, again, without wanting to spoil anything. If you, are a bookish person there are just some fun bookish elements in it too like the main like junie loves to read basically is where i'm coming from so there are a lot of those elements that i love about like reading loving characters in that book too no i'm excited i'm also always interested by like

the amount of audiobooks that you listen to especially because i feel like with audiobooks i'm always sticking with nonfiction like i did just listen to one which was slanting slanting at the sea and that was not nonfiction that's fiction but i want to start reading more or like listening to more fiction i just haven't actually tried it yet yeah well junie's narrator is i think this is my favorite narrator for all time is angel peen like i just um you're like angel's calling uh i i love her voice and i actually just finished i was reading and listening to Boomtown by Nick Stone and she's one of the P.O. fees in there and I didn't know. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I feel like it is a lot about the narrator, especially with fiction. I think sometimes

with nonfiction, if I'm just like getting information. Yeah. Not as picky, but I love her voice so much. So some of it is like figuring out which kind of narrators you enjoy. But I also just never thought it was going to happen and it was uh essay cosby my friend step loves his narrator adam i can't remember he has two last names uh something and then oh my gosh i'm just going to look it up i could just uh cut this out um essay cosby narrator okay adam lazar white so that was the first fiction i listened to because so many people talk about how wonderful his voice is and they were right. So especially like when you're first starting, it's kind of like make sure you like find a narrator that like you like, I could listen to this person forever and then it makes them a little bit easier. Okay.

No, I will because I also have been wanting to get into essay Cosby books. Yeah. So I have Razor Blade tears on Libby right now to read. Yeah. But it probably would be good to actually listen to them. Yeah. Yeah. I think King of Ash's was the first one that I listened to.

So good. That book is so dark, though. Like all of his books are dark. But I think King of Ashes and all the sinners bleed were like extra dark, at least in my opinion. And isn't all the sinners bleed getting made into something? Or is that? Yes. All of these books have been options.

Wow. And, well, I think, sorry, I don't know if my something prayer. I don't know if his first one is, but I know all the sinners bleed, razor blade tears, King of ashes have all been optioned. Wow. Yeah, he has multiple. But I think you're right. I think all the sinners bleed is actually about to go into production.

So it's like a little further along than the other ones. But those are going to be great. No, it is a good. Mm-hmm. Do you have, do you have a favorite, like, is there a genre that you're like pretty much no matter what I always like go towards this? It might be your music memoirs. Yeah, I would say my music memoirs because I feel like, I feel like whenever I say memoirs, it always sounds really weird. Yes, I think it would be that because I feel like because I am so into music, so like I was a music journalist for like, nine years, eight years, something like that.

And so I'm always like interviewing people around music and like always trying to find like the liner notes or like interesting things. So I think reading about some of the musicians that may not be the musicians that I listen to all the time, but kind of like learning about their life and their interesting stories. Like Marvin Gay is probably my favorite, favorite one to read about because he's very interesting. Yeah. But I think that's where I always end up going. of yeah, I would say that actually.

Yeah. Yeah, mine's, it tends to be some kind of thriller or horror at this point. Like horror, it was kind of funny. Like, almost a year ago now, I read John Fram's No Road Home. And it was like kind of, it is Gothic horror for the most part. And I was like, oh, that was a lot of fun. And so there's some episode of me even saying, like, I think I might get into horror more this year. And then like, I've read so much horror in the last year. So

kind of like when it's more social or psychological horror is what I basically started to learn. I was like, oh, that stuff's really interesting when you're using like kind of like horror as a metaphor to talk about things that are happening. I'm kind of a baby about body horror. So that one I don't go as close to. But I'm kind of like finding my niche with it. Yeah. No, I don't need a list for me because I want to get more into that. Like one thing I also have been trying to get into is like romance and those are a little weird for me. But I know. I've never, it hasn't happened for me yet so far.

So I don't, I don't have any recommendations there. No. I feel like you always know what to expect. Like I do like Kennedy Ryan books. Mm-hmm. But I think that's probably as fun as I would love. Yeah. Love those covers.

Same. Maybe I should try one of hers sometime. I mean, yeah, if you read the Skyland series series, so there's, I feel like I always get this wrong. But before I let you go, before I let go, that was good. And then the last one was, it could be us. I feel like this is wrong. Oh, I didn't realize they were, it was a. Yeah, and it's like, the thing that's nice about it is you don't have to read them in order because all the characters are in the same books.

Oh, okay. meet one a little bit differently but those are good the only one I didn't really like as much was the second one which is Soledad story and I found her to kind of be boring but the last one I really loved and the first one I love too okay that's good you know I'm probably gonna add them so I try things with audio too because sometimes it's a little easier to try stuff just like listen while you're cleaning and be like okay all right maybe this is working for me The last book I read is kind of romanticy. It's called, I feel like I need to look it up.

It's called slanting at the sea. Yeah, it sounds familiar. Her name is, or slanting towards the sea, and her name is Lidja. Okay. And it's like a really pretty cover. It's the lady at the sea. Yeah. That's kind of romanticy.

It's like romance, grief, loss. It's like a lot of themes within the book. Okay. Yeah. And I think that's probably as much romance as I really like because it wasn't predictable. Right. Yeah, I'm always like, if it's like 10% of a subplot, like that doesn't tend to bother me. But it just doesn't normally hold my attention if it's all romance.

Like what you know what to expect. Yeah. I think that's it too. Like, oh my gosh. Like all the people that like complain about like the miscommunication. trope. I'm like that I could know. Like that would infuriate me to or the like, oh no, I'm pregnant and didn't want to be. Yeah, I agree. But there's a good one and you may like it. Uh-huh. Maybe it's still technically romance, but it's romance and music. It was good. It's called deep cuts

and it's by Holly. Yes. Brickley. That was good. And that's romancy. but I love that book. Yeah, I remember it because this cover is so cool. I remember thinking I might like it. And there's a, I don't think it's related to, I don't think there's romance, but Hot Wax by ML Rio. I've been seeing that everywhere too, and I'm like, hmm.

I think you would like that. I haven't read it, but it has, I think, like a horror component to it. Yeah. And the cover is related. Yeah, it's like the 80s in 1989. Yeah, I'm kind of intrigued by that one, too. We'll see. Man, I thought it was something else when you were talking about that. Oh, do you still, are you still a music journalist? Like, do you still write that way? Or pretend. Like, I have my newsletter, so I try to find a way to incorporate them both. Yeah.

I feel like music is like, I feel like they're kind of my first loves, like both of them equally. So I try to find a way. like weave them together whether it's talking about like a book in a playlist or talking about an album that I really liked and how there's some like thoughts of different characters from books I've wrote so I try to do both yeah yeah I do miss it in a way but yeah it sounds fun I mean I'm sure like all kinds of jobs there's parts of it where you're like oh boy but at least sounds interesting for the most part I feel like so I used to go to a lot of concerts so I would go to a concert maybe like three times a week. I was like, like, like, were my movies.

Yeah. But I think when I started working full time and then also getting older, I think I kind of like aged out of going all the time. Yeah. So I just kind of fell by the wayside. I started blogging and then I stopped doing that too. You're like, this is just what's happening right now. I think it's like the Libra because I feel like we have so many great skills that it's hard to balance everything that we could do. Yes. We did discover both Libras and have birthdays like three days apart. So it makes sense that we found each other eventually. So you have your substack where you kind of do a podcast essentially. And we are doing like a pod swap right now. So everyone should go.

listen. What is what's the story behind that? So I think I was doing a lot of book recommendations, but also doing a lot of music recommendations. I was like, let me find a way to kind of weave them together. Yeah. So I started on Melchint and I was doing that every week. And at first it was just like friends and people I worked with and then my family obviously was subscribers. Yeah. And then it ended up going like I ended up moving to Substack one Substack came together just because I think substack is nice because of the community that you can cultivate. And so then I've been on substack, I think, for three and a half years maybe. Nice.

So I've been doing my newsletter pretty consistently for like five years, six months or something. Yeah. So that's cool. Yeah. And I think the thing that's nice also about substack aside from the community is like, for one, it flows like social media. So I know some people love it and some people. don't but I do like I work in social media so I feel like it's very easy for me to like follow it.

Yeah. And then also they have like all those features. So like you could do your podcast, you can do videos. You can do a lot of stuff through there. So I like that it's in one place. Yeah. I do like it. I just got right when I was like, I'm going to start writing something every week. Then I ended up recording an audiobook, which ended up being just like what I was doing in my free time. but I want to get back to my substack because I do want to write about like how stories help me make sense of life. Basically, it was kind of going to be the theme for mine. And I do love all of the features like you're saying, like there is like a very scrollable feed if you're on your phone. But then also you can definitely post any kind of media otherwise.

So I do, I want to get more active on substack too because I do enjoy it. And it is fun finding people who you're like, oh, I like reading the long form that you post. I feel like it appeals to bookish people too because what I noticed, my husband and I, we work in social media as well. So we're, I know, right? We're so used to like everyone being like short attention span, short attention span. And then when I kind of started focusing on my bookstagram, I was like, oh, actually, though, like the bookish audience is an audience that still has a long,

form attention span, which is so nice because it's like sometimes I do just want to read like a bunch of someone's thoughts at once. So I do I do like it. I need to you start posting more on there again. Well, yeah, because I feel like Olivia Moutiner, that's not how you say your name, from. Add on paper. Yes. She does long form, but I think what's nice about hers too is that she'll do long form. So if you want to read it, you can. But if not she can get the audio component so you could just read it. And then even like going to like Kristen with, we don't talk about Carol. Like I think what's so nice about her substack is like as an author she uses as a space to

kind of talk about like her creative process, how she got her publisher, the day in the life and stuff like that. And I follow so many different authors and readers too and just kind of seeing like their taste, their opinions. And I will actually read their long form versus the people's who. I don't really care to read. Yeah, you don't want to read everyone's full thoughts. I do not, but I'll create theirs.

Yeah. I know I followed Kristen's here recently, but I need to start actually reading it. I need to start, like, getting the habit of opening the app is like, because I have a couple of friends where I'm like, when I get like the email that they posted, I'm like, oh, okay, I'll go read it, but I need to like open it the way I open, like, threads. Well, if you, I feel, I will say if you do it, that way, you could be intimidated because there's so much stuff coming. Yeah. It is good.

Like, if you just scroll through your people. Yep. And you already are podcasting. You're already on social. So you could just bring what you're doing over too. Right. Yeah. You're right.

I subscribe to yours. Yeah. I know. I should. I should just have everything there as well. Like, why not? Mm-hmm. And I could, yeah.

Because you can also put transcript. Yeah. Now you have me everything. But yeah, it is fun. I really do, I do enjoy just reading think pieces or people's updates. So now I need to go follow Olivia Munter on there to your mentor. I think it's mentor is what someone told me a couple days ago. I think that's what it is. I said Munter. So like, who knows? The U.E thing. Yes. Yeah. I agree. Well, it's like, because it looks like monster cheese to me. That's why I think I sound enough. Yeah.

I just thought, and she has a new book coming out because she, for anyone who doesn't know her talking about, she's, she has a podcast, bad on paper, but she also wrote such a bad influence, which is like a, it's kind of like social media, contemporary fiction. And then I was just talking about this with someone that new cover, the little one cover with all. It's so cute with the spider web over it. So I need to start listening to her podcast. I need to go subscribe. Actually, I kind of, I often on listen to it. But once I got into audiobooks, it got harder to listen to every single podcast that I was listening to. I could imagine. But it is cool when you are on substack and then you start seeing like the people

who you follow start doing stuff because like her with her book I did read. And then I followed this other person. Her name is, well, I can't recall, but her newsletter is called Morning Person. Okay. And she wrote a book, and her book is called, well, I think I put myself on the spot. It's okay. I couldn't think of Adam Lazzar White's name. Morning Person, Substack. Let's go there. Leslie Stevens. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And then she wrote this book. and it's like a, I can't think of the name, but it's like silver and it's a lady on the cover. You're safe here? Oh, yes, yes.

And that was good. But I also, like, she kind of talked about her journey with writing her book, too. So it was cool to see from substack to see how see in the world. I do love like the BTS, like when you're getting to see like how stuff is made. We actually kind of do that for some of our. clients too like oh she has a pit mix I just got distracted by the fact that Leslie Stephen's bio says she has a pit mix and I have two pit mixes sitting behind me um but it is cool just seeing how stuff is actually created and sometimes then you're like

more attached to the book even as I've noticed because you're excited for them yeah Mm-hmm. Do you have, do you have any, like, favorite books where you're like, I would always recommend these? Oh, yes. So my favorite, favorite, favorite book is called I'm Down, and it's a memoir by Mishna Wolf. Okay. And it's a really cool cover. It's like this girl with the big Afro.

Nice. I mean, I did not know who she was. I just saw the cover and I was like, oh, I'm going to read that book. Yeah. I read that book probably, I actually just reread it. So I probably read that book like 10 times. Wow. It's one of those books that I always go to and I always find something different because it's so funny.

It's like a coming of age story. Yeah. And like I guess the quick premise is she is white. But she's white. So she grew up in a black area with her dad. So like her mom was. with another man. So she, well, that's not really the story.

But she didn't grow up with her mom. She, like, grew up with her dad and her younger sister. But her dad was like, he leaned more into the black side of stuff. So she taught her, like, how to stand up for herself and how to roast people. So, like, it's that kind of coming of age. But it's so funny. And, like, one of my favorite lines is there was this girl who used to bully her. And she would always come to school with her hair, like, half.

braided. When Mishna was, it is stupid. Whatever I think of this book, I think that. When Mishna was learning how to cap, she told her, by time your mom finishes your braids, Jesus will be coming back. It's just like read it in the context. So like that's my favorite book. Oh, I love that.

That's a great story. And then let's see. I would also say, there is like after the dance it's about Marvin Gay but it's from his ex-wife so it's Janice Gay's book about her marriage and experience with him and even if you don't listen to his music Marvin Gay had like a very tragic death like his father murdered him but he also like yeah but he had like really weird things and things throughout his life. So, like, he was married to, like, one of Barry Gordy, who started Motown. He was married to one of his sisters, I believe. But she was, like, very older than him. So he was, like, 25. I think she was, like, 50 or something. But then he married Janice, who was actually young. Oh. But he was also, like, she broke up with him for a period of time and

started dating Teddy Pendergras. Okay. Marvin Gaye was stalking them. So it was like, it was a very interesting story and I think I've read four different books about him and it all kind of tracks. Wow. So it got me very fascinated about this one. Yes, please read it. I would like, please listen to it. I would love to hear your thought. Yeah.

That's what I was just wondering. I'm sure there's, let's see, 2013. I bet there's an audio book then for sure. It's always fascinating from the, from, I mean, either the wife's perspective or just the spouse's perspective. in any case where you're like, who was it like to actually live with this person? Yeah. So I would say those. I also love the color of water by James McBride is one of my favorites.

I feel like I went through like a period where I would say it would be like Paulo Coelho books. But I think I always go back to the Alchemist, but I wouldn't say that that's like my favorite. I think it's just something. And then one of my favorites used to be the kite runner. Khalid Usini. Yeah. And I love that book. I don't really reread it as much, but I think

if we're trying to like learn a little bit or also just have like a good story, even though it's not really the best story, but it's it is a good story. Yeah, it's very emotional. Like I always recommend that. And then I would say yeah, I would say that.

Like I really, I just recently read Maurice White from Earthwind and Fire his memoir, which I really loved only because I feel like Earthwind and Fire, like I don't listen to them. My family did, but I think even just knowing how iconic like the instrumentation is and how they tried to make so many different genres,

I felt like that was really a good book too. That is cool. I am always fascinated. We got like so into biopics with not that I'd never watch. one before then, but Bohemian Rhapsody with Rami

Malick, I couldn't think it was last name for the longest time, but that one was, we saw it in theaters too, which is like really adds to the experience since it's such a like concert focused movie. And we just like left that movie and we were like, wow,

that was so good. Now obviously, you don't always end up learning facts when it's like inspired by but it was so good and I was like we need to see more music related ones but I don't know if we have since then I don't know if many have like come out like in theaters there haven't been a ton there was Elvis but we didn't go see no we didn't go see the Austin Butler one no and I'm like shaking my head like I was there with you okay you're like I believe you well I feel like I would want to see that but

I also am interested because Priscilla Presley just wrote a book. Yeah. I went like on a book shopping spree for my birthday, which I probably should not have. But I was really tempted to buy that book. I just bought a whole bunch of other books. Yeah.

I know. We saw the movie, Priscilla. Mm. And it's hard for me to say I recommend it because it was kind of I don't know. I think the pacing was a little bit mismatched in certain parts like I guess is what I'm saying like the flow was and but on the

flip side I'm glad that we got like her perspective in general out there since obviously like it wasn't exactly the healthiest relationship that was happening so yeah it was kind of good but I would be more interested especially so memoirs were kind of my segue way where like I used to maybe listen to like three or four nonfiction a year, but it would be like just like niche subjects that I got interested in that I wanted to know more about. And then memoirs, that was again, like my friend Steph was like if you're trying to like maybe move into fiction audiobooks, she says she always recommends memoirs to people. And that that what, it is fun hearing someone, especially when they read them most of the time they read them. Um,

But like when you're hearing someone literally tell their story, like it is so much more powerful than any like a movie version of it is going to be. So I think I've like mostly now it's like memoirs is where I'm going if I do want to learn about someone. So I'm going to have to keep getting a memoir recommendations from you. Well, yeah. I think like one of my favorites that's an audiobook, I think it was actually the first audio book I listened to. Oh, nice. was because I was always like not listening to them because I don't know I just I think I was in a real podcast thing yeah same but it was Mariah Carey's and I'm not a lamb so I'm not like a

Mariah Carey stand like that but I think hers was so good because she was like singing some of the songs in her audiobook so it made it easy to follow yeah oh oh oh Oh, okay. I'm adding this one to my wish list, too. Yeah, and the story is really interesting. Yeah. For Arrow with... This...

It was that one portrait of a portrait? No. The meaning of Mariah Carey? Is that maybe... Oh, yes. It was that. Okay. Looks like she's published multiple.

Good for her. Pop-off, girl. Only from Audible, too. Oh, yes, the meaning of Marian Carey. Okay. Yeah, so now I need to listen to that one, too. I think I, so I similarly am very fascinated by musicians too. Really, anyone who actually wants mega fame, like I understand I'm saying that as I am on my own

podcast, but like mega fame does not interest me in any way, shape, or form. Like, I would love to, and I will, like, turn Book While itself into a brand that, like makes money for me but like being mega famous like and not out of judgment sounds so overwhelming and I almost can't even wrap my head around wanting it but I think that's why then like some of these stories get so fascinating to me like same thing I am not like a hardcore I mean I did like intensely learn a lot of things but I'm not like a swifty swifty but like I got so fascinated when the Ares tour got so big and like the zeitgeist itself or then I was like learning all this stuff about her and I'm just like I always come back to like what made you want that much attention

again in most cases not in a derogatory way but it's like I feel like the whole rock star thing which I think is why Bohemian Rhapsody was so fascinating to me as well as like the people who are like I am going to like spill my feelings into a song and share it with like that part I can't even imagine doing. I'm not like. So I don't emotionally gush that way either. So I'm always fascinated by the people who do though because it's just like it's so foreign to me. That's probably why it's so interesting for me. Yeah, I could see that because really I'm not going to write a song about someone and make them so that special if they broke my heart.

Yeah. But I do think that is the thing because I feel like those are the only books that I feel like I mean not the only but those are some of the book I can read and don't feel myself like I don't feel aligned with anything that they're really talking about. Right. Yeah. This is just a different life. Ian, I'm just I know there are introverted people who are mega famous. But for me, I'm just like if I could just like have access to like talking to any author I'm interested in. That would be nice. That would be enough for me. I don't. need to be like recognized everywhere I go like that would just stress me out so much obviously some people like that like I saw those videos of Beyonce she's in Dubai I think it's yet on the hijab and her eyes covered people knew it was her I'm like it's nice to be famous but I would also want like I need my own space and I would like to go to target and not be ambushed yeah that's how I feel too yeah Beyonce I was getting into all of her lore because they were it was that summer that they

were both touring so much and like you couldn't ignore either you could ignore eras or was that yeah that was Renaissance um someone wrote a book about that era like I feel someone wrote a book about like both of those tours and like the end of working for the tour I think it would be really interesting and it was Barbie summer there was just so many fascinating like there were more elevated female things happening. It would be fun if someone would do that. There's a speaking of nonfiction. There's one of my favorite books actually that I read in 2025 like it will be my I don't know my top 20 or however many I have to choose at the end of the year was girl on girl by Sophie Gilbert and she basically it's all about how pop culture turned women against each other in like the late 90s and the early 2000s and I'm like

the way that she handled it because she's also very neutral and also. was intersectional about it. It was not just about white women. I feel like she would be, I need to like message her and be like, we need you to write a book about the summer of whatever that was 2020. Was that 2022 or 2023? I can't remember. Yeah, I think 2023. But I would totally read a book if she wrote it about that. No, how many books have you read this year? 105 at this point, I think is what I'm right. Now, my reading goal was 80. Like, I used to read about 70 without audiobooks, like in the whole year. And obviously, there's still a couple months left. So audiobooks changed the game for me. I used to be about 70. So it was a big difference. But I also

listen to like, I used to listen to like eight or nine podcasts. And now I listen to like two. So that's what shifted. Well, I guess, okay, this is a question for you. So if you read so many audiobooks, I think this is probably the reason why I don't, like, I've been listening to them more lately as as of like, probably, what is this month? Oh my God, that was so bad. It is so long. I know. I ignore that question. Maybe like since March, I've been reading them a little bit more, so I've been trying to do like one or two per month. Yeah. One of the things that I always struggled with and why I think I was not listening to them initially is I felt like it had to be like the perfect time to read them. So if I was on a walk or if I was like driving really far or something like,

I guess for you for one, well, two questions. Like how many are you reading per week? And then also how like when do you find that you're listening to them most or like how do you make time to listen to them? Yeah. So, you know, it depends. So I listened to the Good House last. week and that was like 22 hours. So that was pretty much the only one I listened to last week. But if it's like a like seven to 12 hour one, I can normally get through two or three in a week. And so then what it depends on is like, so sometimes if I just like wake up, my dog's also my, my older girl dog, she all of a sudden just like does not want to stay asleep between like one and four. So sometimes she's waking me up at one and four to just like walk around outside. But if I can't get back to sleep at

like four, I will just kind of listen, which is nice because it's not like I'm scrolling my phone the whole time. Not that I don't. I definitely scroll. But so sometimes that's like a benefit is like if I can't get back to sleep, I'll just start listening. But then the big difference for me is like what I'm working on. So sometimes with the content that I'm editing, it doesn't require audio, like either it's photos or it's just like kind of like going through B-roll of video, which is like not the talking part of a video for anyone who's like, what are you talking about? So it's like if I have a lot of that, like some days I could just listen the whole time that I am working as long as it's not one where like you're having to keep track of a lot

of specific details, like a really a really like mind-bending. thriller that wouldn't probably work but if I have a lot of that like I could listen to like five hours of a book in one day and then my dogs always need two walks a day so that's like 20-ish minutes twice a day and then it's like all the other boring stuff like laundry or cooking or cleaning so then so then it's like it really does come down to the week like there was a week where I was doing so much video editing that had audio, so it's like I was barely getting through anything. It all depends. I have seen some people will do like puzzles because like someone else was asking me like

how do you not get distracted? And there are there are times where I'm like yeah my brain just can't do two things at once right now. But some people have said doing puzzles while you listen helps them like pay attention. I can see that because it's like idle. Yeah. So you're not just like scrolling and then you're like wait what just happened I'm going to try to listen to more I just I it's it's not like I'm like against the podcast I was listening to

previously it just grabbed my attention for now and right now I'm like oh this is cool that I can like listen to more stories and nonfiction like once I get interested in a subject or I just feel like I need to know more about a subject I do like that I can like find nonfiction and just have it read to me. I'm going to do that more because I do think I'm also going to start finding, like, the narrators that I like and listen to people that they do because I know, like,

the narrator for Great Man, I can't remember his name. Yes, he was great. No, I loved his voice. Like, in my head, I was like, oh, he looks so cute. I know. I'm thinking, so I'm going to start finding the people who I like, and even, like, Dominion, like, find the people whose voices I like and kind of use. that to be a guy that I'm reading too.

Dominion, for anyone who's listening, was such a good audiobook. Because it's multi-cast, like, or full cast, like Ford, there's three or four different narrators, I think. And so that always makes it even better. Like, you really feel

it's as close to it being a movie as you can get, really. And, yeah, it was just produced really well. So anyone who's like wanting to start, start on one that's like really engaging that one was great and angel peen is uh diamond in that she's one of the characters so that's she's one of my favorites yeah she was my favorite listening yeah she is so she's just so good like i think let's see i've listened to her i think in four books now at this

point since i'm since i'm listening to her in boomtown right now i think that's number four um but i just love her and it's funny now that like we were watching abbott elementary a couple nights ago and like now i was like there was a he's kind of like a side character who's on every now and then but i was like i need him to narrate audiobooks and it was like that was something i didn't even think about before i'm gonna look it up which episode was it that we were watching because i think it was two of them there are two men where i was like i don't i also don't read tons of books where men are the yeah it's me and a narrator, but it's not like I never do. But I was like, I need these people to start narrating.

Let's see. It was, it's the man who starts dating the principal. Oh, that's my avid elementary crush. Okay. So we're both thinking of the same person. The way he talks to her, I'm like, can you read audiobooks, please? If you read audiobooks, I would read them all. I would listen. And then the other guy who is like he's part of the district or whatever. He has like a Hispanic. Oh, yes. And I'm like, I love his voice. Yeah.

I'm in line with them both. Yeah. So now I like, I'm watching other stuff or listening. And I'm like, I should tell this person needs to know that they would be a great audiobook narrator. Yeah. That would be amazing. Who else would be interesting as a narrator?

I feel like Dintel would be really good at it as well. Yeah. I like listening to him. Aren't many women whose voices necessarily stand out to me that I can think of? I feel like depending on the type of book, but it would have to be something funny-ish. I feel like Amy Poller would be really cute as a narrator, but it would have to be something kind of like cheeky. Yeah, because she's really good inside out. And then I also think Regina Hall could be interesting too.

Yes. But again, it has to be something a little bit cheeky. And honestly, like, when I listen to matriarch, I mean, Beyonce's voice is just amazing, even just her speaking voice because she does like part of the. forward, I think is what it was. It's one of the things that comes before the book, and she was in the forward. And I was like, you could just narrate my life for me, and that would be great. Yeah. But Tina's voice is fantastic, too.

I loved listening to her read that one, too. Such a good memoir. I wish I would have listened to it because I read it, but I read it, well, they're both reading, but I read it in, yeah. I read it on Kindle and I read it in print. So I was going back and forth between them both. I wish I would have added the audio component because I feel like people who listen to it while we all enjoyed the book, I feel like people who listened to it came out with different things that I didn't get from. Oh.

So like I may go back and listen to it. It is wild because like when it's people really talking about long periods of their lifetime, you like hear them cry a little bit or get choked up during certain parts. So it does just like it just hits. so different when you're listening to it. And you can hear how they feel about certain people. But she also just has an amazing like southern accent as well. So it's just pretty. Yes.

She's just amazing too. Like her entire like how her life began to like where it is now. I'm just like talk about like the amount of change that can happen in your own lifetime. well not even just a change like how resilient you could be yeah yeah because yes stuff i was just like oh my gosh she's endured so much yeah because what what i kept saying after i listened to that one that like really stood out to me was like she basically is born when they're still i can't remember if jim crow is still active or if we're right outside of it i think it was right outside of it but like her parents experience living in the south that way

And like, it's pretty early on. I don't think it's much of her sweater, but like she, her mom helped the church churches near where they lived. But they also couldn't even go to church. So to like have that be your childhood to then being the mother of Beyonce. And like going on stage with her and writing a memoir, I'm like, there's so much that can happen in your lifetime. But yes, to your point, she had to be very resilient to live through all of it. Yeah. It's so good. It's definitely one of my favorite memoirs for sure. Same. I think it's probably one of my favorite books from this year, too.

Yeah, I think so, too. I almost got a book trophy version of it. I don't know, a couple of months ago. And now I'm like, why didn't I? I will. I'll get one before the end of the year. It deserves to be up there. Yes. Well, I feel like everyone has a good feeling for what you like to read. And we have some new good recommendations. I do at least. I definitely have some pulled up that I'll probably buy right after this. Yeah, it was fun talking with you.

And we'll have to see you again sometime. Yes, please. Thank you again for having me.