Bookwild - My Darling Girl by Jennifer McMahon: The Book She Was Afraid to Write

Episode Date: December 27, 2023

This week, I talk with Jennifer McMahon about her newest release, My Darling Girl!Alison has never been a fan of Christmas. But with it right around the corner and her husband busily decorating their cozy Vermont home, she has no choice but to face it. Then she gets the call.Mavis, Alison’s estranged mother, has been diagnosed with cancer and has only weeks to live. She wants to spend her remaining days with her daughter, son-in-law, and two granddaughters. But Alison grew up with her mother’s alcoholism and violent abuse and is reluctant to unearth these traumatic memories. Still, she eventually agrees to take in Mavis, hoping that she and her mother could finally heal and have the relationship she’s always dreamed of.But when mysterious and otherworldly things start happening upon Mavis’s arrival, Alison begins to suspect her mother is not quite who she seems. And as the holiday festivities turn into a nightmare, she must confront just how far she is willing to go to protect her family. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

This week I got to talk with Jennifer McMahon, who is the author of nine suspense novels. And something kind of unique about her suspense novels is that they incorporate elements of the supernatural without being a totally supernatural feeling book. And this week we're talking about her most recent book, My Darling Girl, which is about Allison, whose mother Mavis. She's been estranged from her for years. and then her mom is diagnosed with cancer and only has a few weeks to live. So her mom pretty much asks to move in with her while she's going through that.

And after her mom moves in, a lot of strange things start happening. And as time keeps going on, basically, Allison is trying to keep Christmas from turning into a complete nightmare while also trying to protect her family from so that she's been estranged from for so long. I talked to Jennifer about her writing process, how she develops her characters, and what she really, really loves about incorporating the supernatural into her thrillers. So let's get into it. So before we dive into stuff about the book specifically, I wanted to get to know a little bit about you and your writing process. So when did you know that you wanted to be an author or when was like your moment where you were like, I have a book that I need to write? So I have been writing forever.

I wrote my very first short story in the third grade, and it was about a haunted meatball, and I kind of never looked back, and I, you know, I wrote the story, and I just got caught up in the magic of writing, this idea that I could create a universe that I could get lost in and make absolutely anything happen, including a glowing green meatball chasing a little boy through the woods behind his house, and I wanted it to be funny and terrifying, and I brought it back to my teacher, and she read it, and she said, this is good, write me another story. So I went home and I wrote a story about a mud monster and then another one about a dead body being in the wall behind a kid's bedroom in the kids bedroom. And so I just got hooked on writing these scary stories.

And I've been pretty much writing ever since. I studied poetry in college and grad school. And I thought that I was going to be a poet. But my poems started to sort of take longer form and I was writing prose poetry. And one day a prose poem kind of turned into a short story. story, but then I realized, oh, this is too long to be a short story. Oh, my God, I'm writing a novel. And I had this complete identity crisis and freak out because I'd been studying poetry for six years, right? I didn't know much about writing a novel. To write a novel, you have to have plot

and structure and make things happen. And I could be, I could write nice little metaphors all day and describe things, but I had no idea how to make things happen. So it was very much a learn by doing kind of thing. That is so cool. That it's just kind of like, came from you're like oh i'm writing short form poetry and then you're like oh actually i have i have more words to say about this yeah and it was really there was something really wonderful about it too because for me my poetry was all very confessional right it was all about me me me me me and that gets exhausting it's like there's only so much like introspection i want to do and it was so it felt so freeing and exciting to be like inventing stuff and writing about fictional characters and sure

I put bits and pieces of myself into them carefully hidden, of course. But yeah, it was really wonderful. And it brought me back to that, like, magic of the third grade me, writing that haunted meatball story, like creating a universe where I could just invent stuff and make anything happen. And it was really cool. And that said, so I sat down to write that first novel. And it was actually, so I wrote four novels.

My fourth novel was the first one that got published, Promise Not to Tell. So I wrote three novels that did not get published and that will hopefully never see the light of day that were, as I said, learning experiences, right? Yes. You know, I learned a little something with each one. And I was also, I realized looking back that I wrote those first three novels, not for myself, but for other people. I wrote them because I thought that I was writing the sort of thing that other people

would expect me to write. Like they were very literary and very character-driven and not much happened in them, honestly. And only when I sat down to write book four, I asked myself the question I should have asked myself all along that I so advise every, writer to ask themselves, what is the book I most want to read? And when I asked myself that question, the answer came back loud and clear a ghost story, kind of going back again to my original love of the scary story and the haunted meatball. And so I sat down and I wrote the book that became

promised not to tell. And I was off to the races then. It was great. So that book was sort of the opening for me and it opened so many doors. And I've been, I haven't looked back. I've been writing scary things ever since. And the wonderful thing about writing, Promise Not to Tell, is it was not only a ghost story, but it was a murder mystery. You have to have a plot, right? It becomes like a who-done-in. Like, how did this girl die? What happened? So it was wonderful. Right. I love that, like, it's, like, been in your blood or your jeans or whatever since you were that young to, like, a haunted meatball is, like, similar to the fact that, like, you write suspense thrillers, but they also always have, like, a little bit of a supernatural element. So I was going to ask you what it is that you love about that, but it sounds like you've kind of instinctually gone toward it since you're young, but what is it that kind of like is exciting about including the supernatural for you? Yeah. So in all the like writing workshops and classes and things I've been to you, I heard over and over again, write what you know, right what you know. But my own little motto is right what scares you. Because for me, that's where the good stuff

comes from. And really every book for me and every story idea is kind of begins with a fear. And I just, I feel like when I channel, when I lean hard into that fear and into looking at the things that scare me and put them out on the page, it, that's where the good stuff happens. And also it helps me feel more brave. And I think that's what draws me to sort of horror and creepy stuff as a, as a reader too. Like I love reading scary stuff and stuff that makes me have to sleep with the lights on because it makes me feel more brave, even though I'm actually the biggest chicken. I really am. I'm such a scarity cat, but there's something wonderful. There's something like cathartic about facing your fears on paper, either through reading or writing. And I just come out

feeling like, oh, I handled that. What else can I handle? I love that. I was just telling my has been that because we were talking about, I was talking about some different books and, like, how some books can be like dark into depressing way or some are like dark and uh scary or like anxiety producing like and how for me what i love about reading or what i think i'm learning more about what i even like read about reading is the stories where like there is a lot that there that someone is up against but like you get the feeling of like oh but they con for it and like it kind of translates into you feeling like i could if you kind of look at your life as a story in some way sometimes and be like what if this was just like an inciting incident in my life or something like I could oh absolutely

yeah we are all the heroes of our own stories for sure yeah yeah I love that perspective that like writing it almost makes you feel braver because sometimes I have that same thought when I'm reading where I'm like maybe I feel braver more prepared to like approach certain parts of the world but similar to you like I am not an adventure seeker I'm not an adrenaline seeker I'm probably a chicken I'm the introvert who stays at all the time so I'm having all these experiences through books but it still kind of has that same feeling where like you feel like you can like conquer something scary with the character. Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's the reason I'm reading and the reason I'm writing too is I want to go on a journey

with a character and see where I end up and how she grows and the things, how she faces the stuff she needs to face. And, you know, she's always facing something external, but she's also always facing something internal, you know, like she's always got her wounds that she has to heal and her you know, sort of the big thing that she is holding her back from getting whatever it is that she wants, that she's got a face. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. So you kind of, you kind of started with poetry, well, you started with books when you were much younger, but your transition from kind of poetry into writing novels. How did your writing process develop? Like, do you plot? Do you kind of

start writing and see where it goes? How does that work for you? I have never, in a plotter. I'm a total pancer. Yeah. So I start, I get hooked on a character and I hear her voice in my head and I just start with her and I get to know her and she's got, she's always got a problem. Sometimes it's a really out there crazy problem. And I just kind of let her and the story show me the way. And I write my way crazily through a very messy first draft. And in the process of writing the first draft, people will say, what is this book about? What are you? working on and I'll say, I have no idea because I really don't because anything can happen, you know, like I was working on my darling girl. I'm like, okay, I've got a story and it's about a

woman and she thinks that her mother is possessed by a demon. Is she really possessed? I'm not sure. So I have to write the book to find out. Yeah. And then so my process is I write this really messy, crazy rough draft. I am, it's all over the place. I'm never quite sure where it's going. By the time I get to what I feel like is the end and I'm like, oh, I think this is the end. I print it. And then I lay it chapter by chapter all over the floor of my house. And then I almost treat it like a big collage. And I get this like bird's eye view. And I start moving things around.

And I start seeing the structure. And for some reason, I can't do it on the computer no matter what program I use. I don't get the same sense that I do when I have it printed out on the floor of my house. And I'm moving things around. And I see the physical structure. And it's almost like a big puzzle. And I move like the, I see a part in the middle. And I like, oh, no, that belongs at the beginning.

and I'll see a part and I say, this doesn't belong in here at all, and I'll see gaps and holes, so I'll write notes to myself about scenes I need to add. And this goes on for usually several days of the book on the floor. My family loves it when I do this, and the cats make a mess of it and are my own little editors. They're like, no, this belongs over here, really. So I have this, and I just keep playing with it

until I have a structure I'm happy with, and then I'll get, like, all crazy and organized, and then I'll, like, make a color-coded outline with my index card, and I'll make sure that, you know, all the story arcs work and that everything flows and I'll get all my, I'll make sure my twists and my turns are working and I'll just kind of get all that worked out and then I'll dive back into revisions and try to make it a better book. That's cool. Someone I talked to, Jessica Payne has talked about the same thing where like she has to be able

to like physically see it in front of her, not just look at it on a computer and how much it helps. So, I mean, and that totally makes sense, being able to physically move stuff around. It is. And just editing by hand, you know, like with an actual, like, colored pen is so much better than for me than editing on screen. I know some people do the whole process on their computer and that works for them. But for me, I need to, I need to hold it in my hands.

And I need colors and I need colored post-it notes and I need to color code things. And I need to, you know, like mark things in green where I think the setting needs to be fixed. And, you know, I, and especially, you know, if I'm doing something. something that has more than one point of view or has a historical timeline or something I really need to see it laid out to see how everything's kind of flowing one voice into the next and one setting into the next. Yeah. Yeah. So through the, you said you kind of, you have like a character that comes to mind first maybe and then that's how you follow through the plot. Is that the way you get to know your characters? Is that also through the writing or do you kind of like,

sketch out who the main character is to kind of get you going on the plot. So I'll just dive right in with the character and I'll kind of, it's almost like getting to know a person. I'll sort of, we'll warm up to each other. Like I don't want to overwhelm her by putting her in a corner and asking her a million questions because then she'll clam up and might not answer me. So, right. So I'm like getting to know her as I go along. And as I do that, I'm doing little things. Like I'll take time out where I'll do like a little Q&A with her in.

my journal. I usually do it like freehand in my notebook or I'll start asking her questions about herself and have her answer. And only when I can hear her voice in my head, do I feel like I really have her down? And sometimes it takes me a little while to get to that point. Yeah. And so I'll ask questions like, you know, what's in your closet? What do you carry in your bag with you every day? And I'll ask questions like that or like what's in your refrigerator or things like that, like basic stuff, but then the question that I all, I have to warm up to that I ask at some point of all my characters is what's the one thing you've never told anyone? And sometimes however they answer that will just turn the whole book on its head or give me some insight that just

changes everything. Yes, that sounds like, yeah, that would be such an illuminating question for sure for anyone. Yeah, and I'm also, yeah, I'm also, so when I get stuck writing on the computer, I pull up my notebook and I'm also really big into journaling from my character's point of view. Like I'll try to sort of channel my character and see what they have to tell me like in journal form. And sometimes those will actually end up in the book, which is fun. Yeah. Yeah. That is really cool.

It's almost like when I was in therapy, you do just distaltz. And like sometimes you write with your other hand to try to like connect to your inner child. So it sounds really similar to that. Yeah. No, it almost feels like spirit writing or something sometimes. channeling so like oh okay I'm getting it yeah that is awesome so and I you know a weird thing is I also so I do that with with setting too like I treat setting almost as a character in and of itself and so I'll ask the setting the same questions like what secrets are you keeping and like what is what do you

have to what could if you could speak and tell the main character something what would it be and what's the one thing you've never told anyone what are you most afraid of and so I'll do all that too and you know that doesn't usually work its way into the book and I don't usually have a setting, you know, point of view. But it's, it gives me stuff that I need that kind of helps the universe come together in my head. Yeah, totally. So what was the kind of like inspiration point for my darling girl? Like what was the thing that kind of set you into motion writing it?

So this book, this is actually a, this is an unusual story for me because I usually just jump in with a character and go. But this book, I came to me from a dream. So way back in 2017, so a long time ago now, I had this dream. And in the dream, I'd written a book called Heart of Stone. And in the book, there was a woman taking care of her dying mother, and she comes to believe that her mother is possessed by a demon. And I woke up from that dream, and I had like all the major plot points outlined in my head. I knew what the book was, I knew the structure of the book. And so, started writing it all down and I was pretty excited and then I thought wait a second uh-uh no way because me being a big scary cat there's this long list of things that I have told myself

I will never write about because there are certain doors I don't want to open and demons was always at the top of that list so I was like uh-uh no way I am not writing a book about demons so I closed the notebook and I put it away and I told myself not to think about it anymore wow but like all good ideas, it kind of just kept bubbling back up to the surface and I kept thinking about Allison and I would hear Allison's voice in my head and I'd be like, oh, and she'd say, you know you want to write this story or she'd give me little details and I'd kind of scribble them down and I'd get new ideas and I'd get ideas about the mother character and I'd scribble it down and then I'd get scared again and I'd say, no, I can't do this. It's demons. No demons. No demons for Jennifer. Thank you very much. Uh-uh,

not today. So this went on for years and I worked on other books and I did other things, but it just kind of kept coming back up and sort of seeping into my life in different ways. And I kept thinking about it and kept thinking about Allison and her mother. And then we lived through the pandemic where, you know, I like faced a lot of real life fears. And I think after that I was like, maybe it's time. You know, I always tell myself and I tell people that like my big writing motto is supposedly right what scares you. So why am I running away from this thing? Because it scares me.

Maybe it's time to actually like practice what I preach and write what scares me and sit down and take this thing out. and, you know, like, drag this fear out and see what it has to teach me and what it has to show me and see what the story has in store for me. So finally I sat down and started actually writing it. And I was scared. It was scary. And, like, doing the demon research scared me to death, you know? Yeah, I bet.

And I, yeah, no, it's reading about, like, supposed possessions and it was, it was scary stuff. But I, you know, it was a lot of fun, too. Yeah, that was going to be my name. question. So like there are times that you were writing at night and you were like, I can't write anymore. I'm scaring myself too much. Oh, absolutely. Yes, definitely. There were, and there were certain scenes that I was writing, you know, I just, there were certain scenes that I was like, oh, I need to, I need to stop this now because I'm really scared. I don't know what's going to happen next and I'm scared. And even though I had like this idea, you know, I had the book sort of formed from, because from the dream,

it still had a lot of surprises in store for me for sure. Yeah. You know, that's why I sit down at the desk every day is to find out what's going to happen next and what surprises the characters in the story have in store for me. And this one had plenty. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. So you said this one was a little bit different

because you kind of had a plot come out of your mind from the dream. But the ending is pretty shocking. And so I was going to ask, like, did you even know where it was going to be headed from your dream? or was that something that also kind of surprised you as you wrote it? I had a general sense of where it was going to be heading. I didn't know some of the details. Yeah.

And yeah, some of it surprised me in the end. I was like, ah, it's going to be this way. And yeah. Yeah. That's so cool, though, that that's like basically. I always think I always think it's so cool. Audre MacLeer. I talked to her about her first book a couple of years ago.

And she had the same experience where, like, she had a fully formed, like, dream that she was like, this could be a book. And so her, like, first published book is something that she, like, translated from her dream world. And I just always think that is so cool. Like, when that happens, it's like the idea was almost maybe in your subconscious, so much so that your brain was like, I'm going to, like, put this out in like a movie form in front of you. I think that's so cool of that. I know. Oh, absolutely. And that's, it's the first time that I've had it happen that way. I've had like ideas and inspirations for books from a dream, but never like, oh, I've written this book and it's called Heart of Stone and here's what it's about and waking up and knowing and remembering all that. It was really a gift. But I am a big, big believer in always writing down dreams, whatever fragments of your dreams you can remember. Because I don't know. I think our dreams give us really deep insight into ourselves and what's going on and the way, it's a way of processing the world around us and maybe world.

we can't always see. I don't know. Yes. Yeah, I feel that way too. I love hearing about people's dreams. I was just listening to someone on a podcast a couple days ago where she was like, I used to tell you guys my dreams. And then like, people kept talking about how it's like so boring to listen to someone tell their dream. And I'm like, no, I want to know all about your dreams. Like, I think it's so crazy when I have like a really detailed one. And I'm like, all right, where was that coming from? So I know, I love it. I'm all about the dreams. And I love I love hearing about other people's. dreams. You know, when my family tells me and friends tell me their dreams, I'm like, yes, tell me more. This is really cool. Yes. Yeah, totally. So I have been asking people at the end what they have been reading lately that they've loved so that we can also kind of talk about the other books. What have I been reading lately that I loved? I read a very fun Christmas thriller called Christmas Presence by Lisa Unger that was very, very fun. It's a novella. It's set in a little New York town.

And I just thought it was sort of a wonderful thing to read after, you know, having my book come out. And my book is set at Christmas time. And she and actually, she and I actually just did an event a couple weeks ago where we talked about the dark side of Christmas, which was really fun. So if you're looking for for more Christmas on the dark side, I recommend picking up Christmas presents by Lisa Unger. It's very fun. Present day crimes and past crimes that won't stay buried. And she made me afraid of Santa Claus. So it was.

Oh, my God. Good stuff. I know. I have that one of my place to read. I haven't read it yet, but it's kind of like a locked, locked room mystery type thing too, right? Yeah. Yeah. So she's in one place the whole time. She's, yeah, you're in a town. You're in a little town in upstate New York. Yeah. And there's a crime that happened years ago. And then there's something going on in the present day. There's missing a missing woman in the present day. And they're, they might be tied together. Yeah. And there's a true crime podcaster, which is very fun. And it's a fun read. Yeah. I love when that's. Yeah. I love when that's. worked in. I just read it was an arc, but almost surely dead by I'm on the Oktar. And it

had some of that saying like, you're like, are these things connected? And it's very, it's a very creepy ghost story as well. So not Christmas related though, but it had some of that same feel to do it as well. And I, yeah, I just

started the reformatory by Tanana Reeve Do you know her work? She is so amazing. And this might be my favorite book of hers. I feel like I've heard of her. It is amazing. Yeah, that cover is beautiful. Yeah, it's a beautiful cover.

And I actually heard her speak about it at the Miami Book Fair. And she had a relative, she discovered she had a relative who was at the Dozier School in Florida for boys. And I don't know if you know any of the backstory, but that's like real life horror stories going on there. And she did all this research into it. And then she turned it into this fictional novel about a boy being sent to a reformatory who can see ghosts and starts to learn things about what's really going on there. And there's all this real, real life, you know, based on real life horrific stuff. And I just, I love her writing. And I think that this is her best thing yet.

So I'm absolutely loving it. You have to bump that up on my list now, too. Oh, yeah, that sounds really good. Where can people follow you to stay updated with everything that you're doing? sure um so i have a website and i list like events and stuff there it's um jennifer dash mcman dot com my instagram is jennifer mcmahon writes and i am on facebook too and i think it's jennifer mcman books i should know yeah i think i think my facebook page is jennifer mcmn books um yeah so those are the places i am yeah i and i will add those links to the links to

show notes so everyone find that and keep following your whatever your next book is whether it's a dream or not very cool yes I'm hard at work on it and all I can say is it's going to be creepy oh my gosh well we knew we knew it was going to be some kind of creepy it may be the creepiest yet we'll see we'll see oh my gosh I'm definitely scaring myself more than more than usual so that's good those are good signs that's awesome Thank you so much for talking with me and being on the podcast. Yeah, absolutely. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Between the Lines.

And if you did, the biggest thing you can do to support the podcast is to go rate and review it on whatever platform you listen on. You can also follow me on Instagram at The Girl with the Book on the couch. And if you still need more thrillers in your life, check out Killing the Tea. My other podcast where I talk to my friend Gare about literally. literally everything we read.