Bookwild - Not What She Seems by Yasmin Angoe: Small Town Theatrics, The "Prodigal" Brodie Girl, and Complex Family Relationships

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

Today, I talk with Yasmin Angoe about her new domestic thriller Not What She Seems!  We talk about the end of the Nena Knight series, how we both miss Nena, and how appearances not always being what they seem inspired her new novel.Not What She Seems SynopsisAfter years of self-exile, Jacinda “Jac” Brodie is back in Brook Haven, South Carolina. But the small cliffside town no longer feels like home. Jac hasn’t been there since the beloved chief of police fell to his death—and all the whispers said she was to blame.That chief was Jac’s father.Racked with guilt, Jac left town with no plans to return. But when her granddad lands in the hospital, she rushes back to her family, bracing herself to confront the past.Brook Haven feels different now. Wealthy newcomer Faye Arden has transformed the notorious Moor Manor into a quaint country inn. Jac’s convinced something sinister lurks beneath Faye’s perfect exterior, yet the whole town fawns over their charismatic new benefactor. And when Jac discovers one of her granddad’s prized possessions in Faye’s office, she knows she has to be right.But as Jac continues to dig, she stumbles upon dangerous truths that hit too close to home. With not only her life but also her family’s safety on the line, Jac discovers that maybe some secrets are better left buried.  Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

A moment of story that I really, really enjoy teaching. So one of them was called The Landlady by Roland Dahl. And the other one we probably know is the spider and the fly by Mary Howitt. And so those two are very much about manipulation and about outward appearance. They look really, the landlady and the spider look, you know, really nice and pleasant. And they're like, come on in. And then, like, they inside are like pure monsters. And so that's kind of what I wanted to write was my own take of that short story that I absolutely loved and my students love and to modernize it and to have like aversions.

For anyone who's been listening since the Between the Lines days, you will definitely know my guest this week because it's Yasmin Ongo, who has been on for all of her Nina Knight trilogy books. And I also can't shut up about those books on the Friday episodes as well. So you probably heard me talk about those. But she went in a different direction after she finished the Nina Knight series and wrote a domestic thriller that was just twisty and twisting and twisty. So here's what it's about. After years of self-exile, Jacinda Jack Brody is back in Brookhaven, South Carolina. But the small cliffside town no longer feels like home. Jack hasn't been there since the beloved chief of.

police fell to his death and all the whispers said she was to blame. And the chief was Jack's father. Racked with guilt, Jack left town with no plans to return. But when her granddad lands in the hospital, she rushes back to her family, bracing herself to confront the past. Brookhaven feels different now. Wealthy newcomer Fay Arden has transformed the notorious Moore Manor into a quaint country inn. Jack's convinced something sinister lurks beneath Fay's perfect exterior, Yet the whole town fawns over their charismatic new benefactor. And when Jack discovers one of her granddad's prized possessions in Fay's office, she knows she has to be right.

But as Jack continues to dig, she stumbles upon dangerous truths that hit too close to home. With not only her life, but also her family's safety on the line, Jack discovers that maybe some secrets are better left buried. This one is just, it's so hard to put down once you start reading it. It almost has like a Southern Gothic vibe in the sense that they're, well, it's in the low country. And there's kind of the drama amongst relationships that you get with a Gothic thriller. I don't know. I'm not saying it's completely that, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

So if you love stories where the main character is returning to the scene of the crime or back to a small town, they try. try to stay away from and the past comes to haunt them in the present. You will love this new one from Yasmin Ongo. That being said, let's hear from her. I know we're here to dive into not what she seems, but I did have to ask you, first, did you miss Nina Knight at all writing this standalone? Yes, absolutely. I miss Nina Knight even right now.

So it always feels weird not to be working in anything that has to do with me. Nina, except for like promo and stuff like that. Because Nina's been a part of my life for so long, even before I started writing her. But she was kind enough to

relinquish me a little bit and let me find a couple of new friends to kind of handle and mess around with. So yeah, I miss her and hopefully one day I'll get back to her. She's always there. So I always keep a very close by. Yeah, because I was thinking about it

even just because like it's still one my favorite series that I talk about a lot. So I was even thinking about it as I was reading. And I was like, well, I mean, like, I also like where it ended with the third book. And yeah, she can always be there. So I'm glad I wasn't the only one missing her, though. Absolutely. She's my girl. I love her. Yeah. Well, with this one, you took a little bit, a little bit of a shift. Still a thriller. But instead of kind of like the action thriller of the Nina Night series, this one's a little bit more of a domestic thriller. Was there anything that stood out to you about writing it that like felt different? Definitely. Because it's a domestic versus the action espionage of Nina. So, you know,

Nina was international and on a much bigger scale. Nina has, you know, a certain set of skills that she has trained for for years. And so we know that, you know, at the end of the day, she's going to, you know, win and some, and kick some butt. And so when I was, you know, thinking about Jack and like her story and wanting to make, you know, this domestic thriller that was much more internalized, that was much more everyday person and how does this person get out of these predicaments when their skill set is research. I mean, she's a research assistant, you know? And so what does she do when she comes across, you know, a killer or, you know, or whatever in this small town where everyone is supposed to be so sweet and so, you know, proper and all of this stuff. And so it was fun.

It was, it was challenging because when I have, you know, those physical scenes, you know, she can't just whip out blades and guns and things like that. She has to, you know, really use her thinking and really use her fight or flight, you know, for real. she doesn't know the things that that Nina does and she's not as comfortable with with that kind of interaction as as Nina is she's not that kind of a thinker you know so yeah yeah I didn't that's definitely the character difference is even kind of so different I hadn't really thought of that but it felt different um was there anything about it that felt different like writing a standalone versus a series too like was the process for that at all any different Yeah, let me think.

Well, it felt more, I could close things off more. Like I didn't have to leave, you know, a little bit of something open, you know, like I had to do with Nina. With Nina, I had to really think about like what is, what are the overarching themes and threads that I want to expand over, you know, three books or whatever. And with Jack, it could be like just all up in this thing. It's one story that can be told. and and you know that's all she wants to tell and then you know that's it so that was a little bit more freeing and you could just go you know balls to the wall with this one because that's it and you don't have to think about too much but that also means that there's a whole lot because you know I like to write like complex characters so there's a whole lot that you have that I want to get the reader to understand about this person but I only have this one time for them to for the reader to get to know her get to trust and love her or

get annoyed with her at points. They don't have three books to really be invested in her like they did with Nina. Yeah. That was kind of making me think of like the difference between movies and then like episodic stuff actually is what that sounded similar to you because sometimes you do you have like that long arc if you have like six hours to tell a story versus like an hour and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Nice. So with not what she seems, what was like the initial inspiration for? the story? So the initial inspiration, besides living in South Carolina and loving, like, my favorite places are along like the coastal towns. So I knew I definitely wanted to set it there because I just love that whole, the low country and just that whole feel of it and the scenery, that it could be so

idyllic and pretty in the day, coast of the beach. They've got these, you know, really lush swamps and woods and things like that. And then at night, it's really, you know, freaky and scary because, you know, these woods and there are things that can, like, eat you and, you know, like, it's just very dangerous in those swamps and those marshes. And it just made me think about, you know, people and how outwardly they could be wonderful and look sweet and Southerners look very sweet. And then, you know, they can, like, really hit you with a bless your heart, you know, and you're like, oh, they really came from my neck. Oh, you know, a touch. my curls and everything because they can like insult you with a smile and you will and you'll be like

thank you and you'll just never know that you've been insulted and I love that right so so it just made me think about mask and then also um um when I was teaching there were these two particulars um there was a home and a story that I really really enjoyed teaching um I'm I really liked to teach you the dark thing so I guess that really that's brand for me um and so one of them was called the landlady by Roland doll. And the other one you probably know is the spider and the fly by Mary Howitt. And so those two are very much about manipulation and about outward appearance. They look really the landlady and the spider look, you know, really nice and pleasant.

And they're like, come on in. And then like they inside are like pure monsters. And so that's kind of what I wanted to write was my own take of that short story that I absolutely loved and my students love and to mobilize it and to have like a version. So when you read it, if you read the landlady or even the spire and the fly, you'll see elements of that. And that poem is referenced in in the book even because, you know, all of those things about manipulation and about like seduction of people and bringing them in to like ensnare them is definitely what I wanted to talk about. That's cool that it was like it was kind of more of a concept

that came to you, not necessarily like the external plot. It was more like just, that's cool because I also, I love, I love stories that examine that specifically, like the looking one way and being another. It works so well in thrillers. Yes. That is so cool. I'm always like that when I people watch, I'm like, but how are they really? Like I'm just always waiting for like the true mask to crack into the, because I just always

think about that stuff, you know? And so, yeah, it fascinates me. It's probably a very morbid thing to be thinking about. Like, you know, this person is very sinister. But like, we see that all the time, right? Like so. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I'm with you if it is morbid. So we can be morbid together. So speaking of like that setting that you're talking about, too, I know in your acknowledgments you talked about how your friend and your husband, like, helped you develop Brooke. So what was like that process like kind of her how did you guys all do that? Yeah like I just like out her so my friend's name is Medina and so I I would like text her and be like she's she's from like the Somerville Charleston area. And so I would just say you know hey this is what I kind of want to

have my my my task to the both of them because my husband is a he's a principal but he was a social studies teacher. So geography is like his thing. And then I and I and I and I I asked the two of them, like, I wanted to have a cliff because I was like, I need a cliff that's high enough so someone can die when they fall off of it. And so, so, you know, this is the low country, which means everything is low. There aren't like, you know, mountains and things like that. So we needed to, you know, find an area where, you know, the rivers may intersect and that could like have some sort of, you know, a higher point that someone could die.

and I needed that. And so we kind of, that's how we developed it together in the low country. And there are things like that. So they wouldn't be super, super high, but it's high enough to hurt someone. So yeah,

that's how they helped me because I was like, I don't know and I have a really bad grasp of like topography and things like that. So they were on it. They were taking pictures. They were sending me pictures from like Google, I don't know, view or whatever. And I'm like,

this is too much. But like independently, they didn't work together. But both of them were just like, bombarding me with boat aerial shots of things that are possible and you know so yeah they really got into it it was funny they were committed they really were they're like we're gonna find you this deadly cliff one way or the other creating something that is so cool and i hadn't you you kind of phrase it that way but i hadn't even thought of like literally the low country like that's why it would be kind of hard to like

construct that kind of thing. But you're like, right, right. So with Jack, he is like kind of like, quote unquote, the bad Brody sister to the people of Brookhaven

and kind of to her family. And then even, this is in the synopsis, so it's not like a spoiler, she's even moved away from Brookhaven for so long, but she still kind of make some questionable decisions.

She's like pretty layered. with her decision making. But I loved that you let her be imperfect. So how did you, how did you like get to know Jack? Yeah, like I wanted her to be very opposite of the protagonist

that I'd been working with. It's so measured and she really thinks about, you know, everything and she wouldn't make like all of those, you know, mistakes. And she isn't someone who's kind of like a fatalist, like Jack is. Jack was very much when we meet her and throughout, she's really trying to punish herself all the time. And so she knows she's making bad decisions, but those are her punishments for what she feels, you know, that she's done to her father and what everyone,

you know, believes that she's done, you know, to her father and to her life. Like I said, some of the nerves are very proper. And so there's a way, you know, they want you to be, especially her mom with, you know, in society and things like that. And Jack never wanted to be that way. And so she's always pushed back. And she's always been, yeah, the trouble, you know, the problem one, even though she's the older one. And her sister is, you know, becoming a doctor and everything. And so she is, you know, their roles are kind of reversed, her and her sister.

And so Jack just leans into just being that bad kid, you know, that everyone believes. and she herself becomes to believe it, which leads her into all these poor decisions or you're like, oh my gosh, Jack, you're so reckless. Like, why would you, like, why would you say that to Conrad? And how did you not, like, see that he was like, creep from the beginning? You know, all these things.

Even I was like, Jack, like, girl, you get no, I need you to get a grip. Like, what is going on with you? But, like, she needed to kind of go through all of that and really find her way. And that, you know, even her being away from Brookhaven for six years, it's self-exile. She didn't have to go. And her mom and sister would have and her granddad at that time would have fought for her. And, you know, nobody really would have, you know, thought, oh,

you did you kill your dad and all, even though nobody knows what really happened. And even she doesn't. Yeah. But she is someone who just wants to like wallow in her. I'm bad. And so therefore, I must punish myself, you know, for this thing. And I feel guilty. So that's what really drives her to, you know, when she sees what she sees about, you know, that other person about and she's like, wait a minute. Like that's really, you know, this is her moment where she can, let me do something finally, you know, for someone else. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She finally gets to that point. I do, it is cool, like, living in that character development where, like, it just, there are periods of your life where you can be destructive for different reasons and, like, you're just not making sense. but like you're saying, like a big part of her story, her story arc, and then the story in general

is that she gets to go do things differently, which is always empowering in a story. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Book Wild. And if you are, could I ask you a favor? Could you go and rate and review this podcast and whatever platform you're listening? Ratings and reviews make the biggest difference in discoverability of the podcast. and I definitely want to find all of our fellow thriller readers out there. So if you could go rate the podcast and leave a short review, that would make a huge difference. Thank you. And let's get back to the show.

The other thing I noticed, actually, that I feel like both the Nina Knight series and this book have in common is that you really, like, dive into family relationships and both of them. And kind of like the good and the bad. And also, I feel like it always plays well into thrillers. So what kind of draws you to writing about families and thrillers? I think it's because families really are also some family dynamics are also something that like I'm really fascinated by. Like, for example, my husband's family, it's a huge family.

And I, because, you know, my parents immigrated here, our family, our immediate family is small. everyone else is back in Ghana, right? And so I don't know them as well because I've been here most of my life. So when I met my husband and then met his family and there's so many, right? And I'm just like, wow. And so you see all these dynamics. And this book in no way has anything to do with them in terms of like their family dynamics. They're really warm and welcoming.

And, you know, I dedicate the book to them because granddad's home is a replica of their home. they have their grandparents' home that they all congregate at for all holidays and things. And so I just thought, oh, my gosh, it's so wonderful. Look at all this family. They're so nice and welcoming and stuff. But then there's always like layers, right? And so I'm thinking of, oh, a family that looks so great on the outside.

But like on the inside, there's like this internal strife. Like, why is Jack pushing back? What is this thing between her and her mother with, you know, the comparison, the failure, the disappointment? what's going on with her mom that she pushes Jack so hard. And those kinds of things, because I feel like all of that plays into how we are, how we grow up, the people we interact with. If we have loving, you know, family that is just open and honest and accepting of whatever we do,

like I've seen of, you know, my husband's family, then they grow up differently and they grow up more free and happy, right? And then if we're keeping secrets and if we have, generational trauma that we, you know, unknowingly put upon our kids, then that makes their decision-making and the way they move in life infinitely harder. And so those are the things that I wanted to cover in terms of her actual family dynamics. What of that would be, would take so much precedence in her life that it makes her feel like she's not worthy, you know? Yeah. She feels that way, but then also she pushes back. So she herself is very confused.

like, do I want to be like my mother or do I not? And like, why is my mom like this? And, you know, and we, you know, you're, I'm a parent, you're a parent. You know, there are some things that we just wouldn't, you know, we don't tell our kids, right? Am I right? You are? Yeah, I think we've talked about. I know, I'm not.

I'm a dog parent, but you can keep going to. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. You're totally okay. I was following you. Okay. My apologies. But, but even, you know, there are things that we might not share with others because those

are our things. And so they may, and it doesn't even have to be a parent. It could be, you know, friends or your spouse or whoever. And they just don't get, why are they this kind of way? Because we don't share those things. And so those are what I wanted to really talk about. Like, when you don't share and you act a certain way and the people misread like your intentions. And then that just was a whole lot of time.

And so, yeah, I went, that was a very long response of my apologies. I love it. I loved it. No, that's what it's similarly, it's what I think is so interesting about family stuff in thrillers is like what you're saying, like how profound the impact of your family is on you for your whole life long. And I'm also, sucker, same thing. The family's pretending to be one way and like there's actually other feelings going on. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. You definitely feel even more of the family relationships in this one since it's so much more of a domestic thriller.

So you're even just spending more time. Like the family is more important in the whole world building of it all. There's kind of like another theme running through it of like your own stories and like other people either telling the story for you or stealing your stories. and trying to profit from them and benefit from them off of trauma. Yeah. Was that something you were intentionally like writing from the beginning or did it just kind of show up in the story? Um, oh, that's a really good question. What was I trying to do with that person there?

Um, yeah, like I wanted that person. So, so what I think I wanted was when the moment, when, when, when Jack feels, I guess, vulnerable enough where she actually kind of discusses what happened that night that her dad died. And she again makes the wrong decision. Maybe at that moment she thought it was the right decision and trusted the wrong person, right? And she didn't see that person for who he was. And then, you know, he flips it on her and, you know, says, you know, I'm going to use this. and, you know, like, who's going to really listen to a story from you anyway? I'll do better with it, even though it's not my story to tell.

And there are things that, I mean, that happens in real life, you know, like you said, like you'll trust someone. And then all of a sudden, you know what? And it's like even like a co-workers kind of thing, I think. You trust someone, you tell them something, and then they go and they either like share what you said and it like messes up stuff for you or they take the credit and then like, you know what I mean? So I think that's kind of what I was thinking is like just people who you kind of trust.

And then they just not family, but like people like coworkers, you know, the outside sources, they just come and like just totally upend you and betray you in a way that you didn't think that you really would when you have put your trust in them to an extent, you know, to share that part of you. And that's happening to me before in the workplace. So I think I was really channeling that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I would be enraged.

So. Yeah. Yeah. I was pretty enraged. I did trust the person and they did. Right. They did be dirty. And so,

and that is definitely in the book. It's, you hear that. You see that with Conrad. You see that with Faye, actually. And so I'm channeling my, because it's something,

it hurts, you know, when people, yeah, pray you, when you, when you, like,

really, thought that you guys were kind of cool so yeah and then it's hard to just rest yourself too and that part is like so frustrating yeah yeah i mean it fooled you right it makes you a different person and and i and i resent that because it makes you a colder person yes and it makes you like you said you don't trust people more you're more closed off and i resent that because you know you were before and now you can't be so much so yeah that's horrible yeah it is kind of in line with that the other theme that kind of runs through the book is like having good intentions but still doing disastrous things even if you like could have a good intention behind it. So did you kind of purposefully

craft like Jack story around that or like how did you get that part in there? Yeah, I definitely thought about that. I think I do use that quote like the the road to have. hell is paved in good intentions. And that's also a Madonna and Justin Timberlake song. So I was listening to that phone a lot. But I really think that way that sometimes with our, even with our villains and stuff, like they have good intentions. They want something that everybody wants, but the way they go about it is horrible.

And so, you know, they try, they have these good intentions. but they just can't get, you know, they can't deliver it the way that it should be delivered. And so you kind of feel like, oh man, like it had it, had they made a different choice, had they gone a different way, you know, things would be different, right? And so like that's what I wanted to explore, even with the relationship with Jack and her mother and any, and other people like in the town and Jack and herself, like, you know, it's being misunderstood and people. people just don't understand someone's intent. They won't share it. And so we're left to just, you know, interpret it how we are going to interpret it. And we have the totally wrong take.

And then again, now a relationship is ruined or there is none at all because we didn't just, you know, put what we, you know, are what we want at face value just up front. We're hiding everything. Yes. To say face. And so like that's what, you know, the book is just about like hiding things. and trying to save face and then it just turns out like you know to help yes that's what i was just realizing i was like that is actually kind of the core of it all is if they had all been a little more

truthful with each other almost none of it would have happened the bad stuff yeah yeah for real right yeah yeah well i loved it so much i was excited to kind of read something a little bit different from you not that i i will always read action from you too thank you But I really, I really enjoyed it. It was super fun. Where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything you're working on? Yeah. So you can definitely follow me on Instagram.

And why? I think it's author underscore Yasmin Ongo. And then I have an author page on Facebook and Twitter like I'm on or X as they want to call it. But I'm always going to be Twitter to me. will be. Yes, yes. There's my website that you can drop a message if it's a nice one. And I, you know, respond and stuff like that. So, so I'm around and always happy to interact with people. I'm really happy, Kate, that you enjoyed the book because I was worried, you know, coming from action espionage to this, how it would be received. If people would like Jack,

since she's so very different than Nina and stuff like that. And so I, it really makes me warm inside. I really appreciate it that you do like, you know, Jack, she does want to be like and accepted, and that you like the story that she had to tell. And then you like this little change from me. So I appreciate it. Yeah. I'm excited for everything else you try out.

So you're welcome. I'll put all those links in the show notes. And then otherwise, hopefully we'll be talking sometimes. about a next book. We sure will.