Bookwild - Our Favorite Tropes

Episode Date: October 6, 2023

This week, we talk about our absolute favorite tropes in books!Follow us on Instagram:Gare @gareindeedreadsKate @thegirlwiththecookonthecouchBooks We Talked AboutThe Last HousewifeThey Never LearnMidnight Is The Darkest HourDid You Hear About Kitty Karr?White IvyLay Your Body DownNever Saw Me ComingNecessary Evils SeriesBright Young WomenUnsub SeriesThe TrapThe Lies I TellPretty Things Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

And we are going to be discussing all things, chills, thrills, and kills. Kate and I are going to be talking about our favorite books, TV shows, and movies that are in the thriller or crime fiction genre, as well as some reading habits and other items related to how we met on Bookstagram that will fit in with this podcast. So thank you so much for joining us. And we hope that you have fun and get totally terrified. So I was thinking earlier today because I saw someone was moving across the street. If you could have any book character, actually I'll open up to TV too. Maybe. I don't know. If you could have any character moving across the street from you, who would you want it to be? My God. Any TV character across.

Oh, well, now we know if we can include TV characters. Now I know who it is. Who do you think it is? I mean, it's going to have to be someone who Jacob Allorty portrays. I would have Nate Jacobs. Yeah, yep. I was like, wait, did I say it the wrong person? And I know he's like a horrible person in the show.

I know. Like, I have just been, there's like this, you know how they always say there's like the I can fix him. Oh, yeah. I've never been one of those. Like, I've never, like, seen an asshole and been like, I could fix him. I've seen an asshole and been like, I could deal with that. Yeah. But I've been reading so many grumpy sunshine romances that I'm like, me, Jacobs and I could totally work.

Oh, yeah, totally. Because everything bad that he does on the show is because he loves somebody. Yeah. Or do it like in their honor in a way. So like I would just be like, oh my God.

I know there's a dead body in the back of your trunk, but here's a little like... Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. So yeah, I would probably have... Get away with murder. Oh my God, I would. Yeah.

Who would you have? So I've been like struggling to like, there's just so many characters that I would love to just like talk to. So I talk about Scarlet from Blood Sugar all the time, but she was one. Like I feel like it would be, we can have some fun Petty Petty Princess

conversations together. And she would, she'd just be fun to fill the tea with. basically. But then there's like, who else was I thinking? Oh my gosh. I was literally torn on this earlier today. Well, no, I can't remember what my other one is. It's completely gone. I thought you were going to say Scarlett from They Never Learn. I am going to talk about her later. And the only reason I say that is because when you said Scarlett, I immediately pictured a love triangle because Tyler would be like I don't want you hanging out with Scarlet by yourself because she

is so fucking hot. Oh my gosh. You're cracking me up because last week Tyler had a dream that he started working with a new client and she was like really hot and I was like he brought the like footage back and I was editing and then I fell in love with her instead of him. he was like you like stole her out from under me it was like a checks out she stole you right my wife is gone so that was what binadryl dreams gave him last week so that's kind of funny that you said that that's really funny you know um i have a friend who texted me and said that they had a dream that

like they were staying at my house. And like they had to go somewhere. And I was like, okay. And then like they came back and like I was like, oh, I'm going to go to bed and like was in my room. And they like slept on my couch in my living room. And then they found out like on Instagram the next day that like I had a mutual friend of ours over. And like we were having like a sleepover in my bedroom. And like she wasn't included. And she was like, oh my god i can't believe you like all week this week i've been like telling my

friend like i've been like cracking jokes like well i have a lot of like i sent a package out to you so like i have a lot of sucking up to do because of like not including you in the sleepover so i guess everybody's having weird dreams we're all having crazy dreams i haven't just not you you're safe i'm just in the dreams yeah right it's true you're just starring just starring in them you're a friend of the dreams oh my god i know i'm the evelyn hugo of the dreams that was that's who i was torn by i was like but i'd love to talk to like an evelyn hugo

who'd done like badass stuff for a whole life and could just tell me even more details there's so many characters basically i want all the characters to move in across the street for me no i feel like book ones are like super hard mm-hmm like really hard well i've been watching you know, like it's fall. It's supposed to be fall. It's like 86 here today, so it's driving me nuts. But when the fall weather I thought was approaching,

I started watching the vampire diaries again. And like I've been having like conversations with friends about like who is like team Damon and who's team Stefan. So like Stefan, I would not mind living across the road for me because a lot of people are team Damon. So I feel like I don't have a lot of competition. So I could have. Oh, that's a good thing.

or a good approach. Or Stefan. But yeah, that would be really interesting to have, like, characters like that live across the street. I guess I would just have, like, a cul-de-sac of all of them. There we go. That's what we need.

Yeah. Like, somebody... I feel like I'd want somebody who has, like, a lot of, like, celebrity gossip. Yes. Not Perez Hilton. I'd rather kill myself than live across the road from him. Maybe do moi. Oh, yeah.

Hmm, what would you do if I was like, stop recording? I'm duois. I would die, and I would really need you to confirm something that you posted earlier this week. I feel like I just want to like choose violence and be like, oh, Travis Kelsey so I can take him from Taylor Swift and like my fucking Instagram will be blown up on that shit. I feel it'll be so mad. I mean, yeah, there are theories that maybe both of them are. beards, but we don't need to get into that. I want that to be a book.

I know. It's why Evelyn Hugo sometimes reminded me of the lore surrounding Taylor. I guess I've been reading a lot of like sports romances and like frat and everything that like now I'm looking for like I just like don't find, I don't usually find musicians especially attractive.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, or cowboys. And that's what my friends are telling me to read. But, like, I really want somebody to write, like, a book about somebody's, like, reputation who was, like, completely torn apart because they were the secret boyfriend of, like, a famous, like, actor or something. I love that idea. You know what I mean?

Like, could you imagine if, like, Taylor was, like... Joe Allen. I know that, like, I know that, like, Travis has a boyfriend or whatever. And I'm just doing this for like both of our sake. And like this is a mutual understanding. He's not cheating on me. We're not really together. We're just doing this fuck with like media.

And then like imagine if like paparazzi caught him kissing another person or another man. And they were like this guy's a homewrecker and da da da, da, da, da, da, da, kind of like it would blow up in the sense of like Kristen Stewart when she cheated on Robert Pattinson. Oh, yeah. Like it wouldn't actually be cheating because like Taylor Swift would know the whole time. Exactly. That's what that's some of like what I just love thinking of theories. Like yeah, that's what's like fun to hear about other people's theories. Because I'm like, these would make a good book.

So maybe we need to write a scandalous Hollywood thriller together. Do you know what I would love? That would be like a little bit more realistic. Your elaborate plan. It's like the media. and like her fans have so many opinions and they're so vocal about every single thing that she does. Could you imagine if she was like, I just want to have a normal boyfriend who is not famous, who is not in the business. And he's friends with Travis Kelsey.

So Travis Kelsey is going to distract you in the media from his very normal friend who's like an accountant. Yeah, I like that. Truly someone who, yeah, because everyone she's been with has for the most part had a certain level of fame. Yeah. So yeah, even if they're not as famous as her. I like that idea. And they just, and I just, I'm like, Taylor, like, I love you. But like, let's, I mean, I don't love her that much. I was going to say, wait a second. That's not what you've been saying. I don't think she's like a bad person. I just feel like some of her fans make me like annoyed with her because they're like.

I completely get that. She was seen public. I'm like obsessed with like knowing all the info, but it's like from a like, I'm so interesting. about it, but I'm not going to fight with with anyone about Taylor Swift or like, I'm not doing that. I just want to know all the info because it's fascinating. And I hope that she is like

bait and switching the media. It'd be amazing. I think that would be a cool story. I just like, I don't think there's anyone that I love that much that I would buy. Like, I don't think that there's any celebrity that I love that much that they would be seen public with somebody one

time in their life and I would buy that person's jersey. Like, I can see you loving Taylor and getting, like, Taylor merch, like, T-shirts, right. A sweatshirt, whatever. Like, I can see that. But, like, her going on a, like, a public outing that they didn't even verify was a date or not. And then, like, her fans, like, buying his jersey, I was like... Like, through the roof. It's insane. It's insane to me. I agree. I would, like, nothing. Like, I saw a perspective that was, like he was talking about how girls are so supportive of each other like when they get new boyfriends and I'm like yeah I get it but like do you need his jersey like it might she might

have just popped in if Tyler played like professional whatever bowling yeah I got a bowling shirt with his name and ordered on it like I would like I would want you to be like You're a fucking weirdo and block me. You're like, why did you do that? Do you know what I mean? Like, if I could see if it was like a long time, like relationship or whatever. Like if I dated a professional athlete and I had you and Tyler, I was like, hey, you guys want to come to one of his games and you guys were like really into it. I might buy you like a hoodie, but I'm not going to be like wear my boyfriend's like Jersey.

I know. Yeah. He's not he's not the country's boyfriend the way the country thinks he is. It's just so strange. It's so strange. I know. I know. I mean, if you really want to get thrown for a loop, you may know this already. You should Google his previous dating lineup. And one of these things is not like the other. Like there is not a single blonde hair, blue-eyed white girl in the dating line.

So there's all kinds of things. I'm like, guys, we don't need to take it this seriously. Not that you can't change who you're wanting to date, but I'm like, there are a lot of things that I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I had like, so I knew who he was because he always popped up on my TikTok because he does like these like really like cool dances.

Oh yeah. And it's always like he pops up on my TikTok and it's like, you know, a lot of like black content creators are like he is invited to the cookout. like one of those situations where they're like, you know, like he's like really funny. He's cool. And so I knew who he was before. And now I'm just like, I don't want him to be tainted with not even Taylor Swift, but just the crazy Swifties that are like, oh my God, because heaven forbid if they break up, people are going to be trying to ruin his name because like.

That's what I think is dumb. Like she's her boyfriend that she didn't have like huge beef. with and I think people will just have beef with anyone that she doesn't stay with. Yeah. It's like sometimes Swifties will be like going crazy on me because I love Jake Gyllenhaal. I know. And they're like, what about my scarf? I'm like she was 19, 20, she was like 19, 20 years old. Like she could make her own decisions and like if it wasn't for you believing whatever it is. Like there are two sides to every break up, right? So like, she's going to write songs about hers and he like didn't need to go public and be like, this is my version of things because like it should have been between them.

Right. But like it's not like Taylor Swift sat you down and was like he hit me with his car and my scarf blew away. Exactly. Exactly. Well, he gets amplified because everyone just puts, they just, they're just talking from like the experience of their own relationship that felt that way. And they're just like, I'm going to hate Jake Gyllenhaal with all of the hatred I already have in me. Like, I mean, I don't like Chris Brown because he beat up Rihanna, but like... Exactly.

Jake Jeline Hall and Taylor Swift, their relationship did not work out. And like... Yeah. Most people don't end up with the person they're with when they're 19. Yeah, I didn't think God. I did. As I say that, like, wait a second. I'm like, thank God.

And you're like... I'm like, wait, that's exactly what I did. One of our clients is going to take me from my husband. Oh, my gosh. That is so funny. Yeah. Speaking of sports romances and tropes in books that we love, I love, so I was scrolling TikTok per year this week.

And I saw one of the ones that's like when it's two a and same. You have to wake up in four hours to get ready for work, but the enemies just became lovers. And it's like they just can't put the book down because it's like their favorite thing ever to have start happening. And I was like, those are the best moments when you're reading. And you're like, oh my God. My favorite plot thing is happening right now. Yeah. And it's just so fun.

And so I thought we should talk about our favorite tropes or plot devices, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. Yeah. I love this idea. I love this idea. And I, because I don't just read thrillers anymore, I feel like there's like so many that I just, it's something I could talk about. But I'm very curious about yours. Yeah. I feel like mine aren't going to be like groundbreaking news. Neither mind. But I'm really curious about yours because you read like, I basically read two genres, right?

Like, I read like thrillers about people who are murdered and male-male romances. So I'm very curious to hear yours if you want to, if you want to kick it out. Yeah, well, transitioning off of all too well, now I feel like I need to use it as a segue to say that one of my absolute favorite tropes is fuck the patriarchy. So in all shapes and sizes of that. Um, also kind of like, if I'm going to lump this into an even bigger one, things where like, you're kind of sticking it to the man, even if the man is just like a larger organization. But some of my favorites with fuck the patriarchy and why I said it was a little crazy you brought up they never learn is that is one of the most like, uh, what is that? mis-indry when you actually hate the men. It's like the most fuck the men-fueled story all the way through for the most part.

Yeah. And it just like it gives me life to read books with that much animosity in them, I guess. But the other one that I can definitely not leave out is Last Housewife is so much, so much. So much a like taking down especially male spiritual power systems. So I'm a big fan of saying fuck the system. Fuck the system and female fucking rage all the way. Exactly. All of that together.

Yeah. All the way. It's a fave. It is so good. And I will link all the books. Obviously, if you feel like you want to share a synopsis of yours, go for it. I've definitely talked about those two quite a bit. So I didn't think I needed to, but they'll all be linked as well.

Well, cool. Yeah. I love serial killer thrillers. I have to start this off with mine being a serial killer thriller because I love the psychiatry behind it.

Like, obviously, if there's like a, okay, so some examples would be like there's two kinds. there's one where you don't know who the person is, but you have, like, a criminal, like, psychologist or somebody who's like, it's a white male, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And then, like, you find the person. And then you have another one where the serial killer is, like, somebody within the characters in the book that you, like, already know, right? Like, kind of like a who-done-it. Yeah.

Serial killer thrillers to me are just so interesting because I always, want to know why they're doing it. You know what I mean? Like you know when they're like, my babysitter neglected me and now I go after like 18 to 24 year old blondes because it reminds me of my babysitter

who neglected me and like I lost my finger because she wasn't watching me or something like I just like always love like not just like their backstory but like the reasoning behind it. It's so interesting to me. It's the same when I watched true crime. So.

Yeah. But like, yeah, serial killer thrillers, I don't know. Maybe they kind of remind me of, like, scary movies, too, but I just, like, always find them to be, like, very interesting. Yeah. Like, the specifics are, like, always getting raised since, like, someone else is probably about to be killed. Yeah.

And, like, a cat and mouse game with, like, the police. Like, I just, like, eat that shit up. Yeah. Yeah. You do. I do. You love, you love it. I love it, love it, love it.

Yeah. I think it's so funny. There was a book I read recently that I'm not going to say what it was, but where like at one point it pointed out like that's multiple deaths that like makes that person a serial killer. And sometimes like I even forget that it's just like or sometimes I don't notice I'm reading a serial killer book because you don't think of it as like, oh, three kills. And that's technically a pattern. But yeah, it is. I feel like it's why like it's it happens a lot. That's why like I always like find it interesting when like people say like, you know,

allegedly Brian Coburger killed those four students in Idaho. And, you know, well, I say allegedly because he hasn't been found guilty yet or admitted it. But it's like they're like, oh, like he's like a serial killer. And I'm like, well, that's his spree killing. You know, like he hasn't like unless he's like killed more than, you know, we're aware of. So it's just like very interesting to me.

Like the terminology and like, you know, between like crime fiction and true crime, I just like always find that like very, very interesting to read. Yeah. And like I especially like how they catch them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like how they catch them.

You know, like sometimes they catch them within like a week and sometimes it's like decades. It's always very interesting to me. Yeah. that would be crazy in real life if you're waiting decades and then all of a sudden had an answer. Yeah, I know. I know. It's what happened with the Golden State Killer. Yeah.

Man. It's intriguing fiction. Yeah. Stranger than fiction. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

I don't have a segue. I don't have one that's similar to that. but one that was going through my mind a lot this week with what I was reading is like books that explore like gray areas and like what is good and actually what is bad and kind of the questions too of like some of the best people can be some of the worst people. So I love books that like really explore that and kind of test you on I think where I'm trying to go with this is. I'm a black and white thinker often in my life. And I think that might be why I appreciate it in books when it's like, yeah, but not everything is like so cut and dry. Like there are nuances to things that happen and like all of that. So the book that I was reading that was making me think of that this week was Miss Ashley Winstead's new release.

midnight is the darkest hour. Not going to talk about it too much. I did. I did. I got it done in two days. We're like texting you at like 6 a.m. and I was like damn. Yeah, Bruce woke me up early on Tuesday to go outside at like 5.30 and I was like, oh my gosh. I know it's on my phone right now.

So I just like completely woke up and read as long as I could. It was so good though. She's always really good at. writing characters that aren't like one dimensional and none of them are like perfect people and all of that. So I love the way there is like kind of a common thread through all three of her books of looking at like all of the parts of a person versus like just what you see on the surface sometimes. So I love that one for that trope. But also what it reminded me of this kind of like gray area and like trying to decide what is actually right and what's wrong.

wrong. Did you hear about Kitty Carr actually follows that same kind of line of thinking. So totally different genre, but same kind of like plot device where you're like, wow, if I have the whole picture, how do I judge this person? Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like, there's like a really big thing that happens in the book White Ivy by Susie Yang. Yes. And I always think of that when the like people talk about like morally gray characters because like she does something like really horrible but like the panic and the anxiety that was like in her body like you're just kind of like what would you have done in that situation you know so I love I love that too yeah that's a really cool scene I know what you're talking about oh my god it's so cinematic oh cool that is like one

of the books that like if I could like if you had like the unlimited budget like we were talking about like a few weeks ago and you had like unlimited budget and you could give that book to like one like every person in the entire world to read like white ivy would be one of mine. I know. It was so good. That was like one of the first ones you recommended that I read. Oh, I love her. Yeah. Oh, she's so good. She really is. Um, I guess I'm going to do my thriller ones. Go for it. I am really annoyed with Ashley Flowers right now. Oh, go on. Hot take.

I caught up on crime junkie. And I started listening to the deck. Have you ever listened to that? I haven't listened. You've told me about it, though. Right. So it's like they take playing cards, like a deck of playing cards that they give prisoners. And each card has a different case. on the back that is like an unsolved cold case.

And if prisoners have any information, like they're hoping that like somebody in prison would have information regarding these cold cases. So that's why like they use them in prisons. Yes. So I've been listening to the deck and it's very, very interesting and I really enjoy it. But it reminds me how much cold cases interest me in like reading, but also like completely terrify me. And I think that's why I enjoy them.

And like fiction, obviously like, in nonfiction, I'm like, you know, I wish that these people's families would find peace and that whoever did this crime would, you know, they would have justice against them. Right. But with cold cases, like, I feel like when it's in fiction, it's so interesting to me because there are so many different ways that it can go in a story. you know like say for instance Amy Dunn from Gone Girl if you didn't find out what happened you would think that you know she was murdered by her husband and it's just like so interesting to me how people can like get away with like

killing somebody or like doing these things and just never getting caught or like them like never finding a body or something like happening where like, I read about this cold case where this like 15 year old girl in the 50s was babysitting. And like her dad called the house and she didn't pick up. And they like went and like all the doors in the house were locked. And the dad like finally got in and like there was like blood everywhere.

And they could not find her. And they found like blood hers in the backyard. And like they just never found her. But, like, one of the things that was hard about that cold case is they were like, she was a 15-year-old girl who didn't have any, like, enemies in the 50s, you know? Right. They didn't have anybody that, like, nothing had happened to her, like, prior to this happening. And they just never found her. And they never found out what happened because it was just like, she didn't have any enemies.

You know, like, she didn't. They just had absolutely no suspects whatsoever. So when it's in a book, like crime fiction, I usually, you know, like, you'll know how it ends. But I just find them like, you know, fictionalized cold cases to be so interesting, especially if they're connected to like another crime that's happening in the present time. Yes. Like when they think like, oh, the serial killer resurfaced. Is it like a copycat or is he back or, you know, whatever? So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Cold cases. Just really. Speaking of that, I don't. I'm thinking, I've been debating what to read next and it was making me, I've been thinking about starting the taken ones. Speaking of cold cases, right? It's perfect time for it. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Because your weather is going to start cooperating with the take-er-ins. I know. It has rained all day and I am a happy person. It just feels calm everywhere I go and the dogs just sleep because they don't want to go outside. It's been a good day. I love that for you. Yeah. It's going to happen to me here in a couple of days.

It's just. You're going to get there. Yeah. Well, speaking of cold cases and wanting to know the truth so that you can do something about it. I love when the revenge is revenging in a book. Especially the TikTok I said kind of inspired this. Like when it's like, oh, I need to go to sleep, but like you're hitting like the best part.

And it's revenge finally being delivered. Like I sometimes feel like I could like jump up and do like a victory lap for people when they get what's theirs. So love revenge. I love revenge. The other thing it made me think of to you. It's also like when the tables get like completely turned. Like that moment in a book where like the bad guy thought they were going to keep getting away with something. and the good guy's like, no more.

And lay your body down by Amy Suter-Clark. Had one of the most badass versions of that at the end of it that just made me like want to jump around because it was so powerful. So me and revenge are good friends. Yeah, it's almost like revenge and like vigilante. Yes. Yeah, because never saw me coming was the other one I was thinking about. like leveling the playing field.

That's what I'm kind of, I don't want to say like, well, there's rage in them. But like, when you, when you said that, I was like, the series that I'm reading right now is called Necessary Evils by Only James.

And each book is like about vigilante. Like these like psychopath, millionaire vigilantes who are like taking down like human traffickers and pedophiles and like drug cartels and like all of these like really horrible people and it's like

each one of them is like a rich dexter with like Batman esque things and romance so um all of it all of it

all of it all of it all of it all of it I love it I love it so good oh just so good I can't I'm thinking about them. You're in your necessary

evil, is that what you said? Oh, yes. Oh, my goodness. You're in your necessary evil era right now. I'm posting about the books on Saturday, and all of the covers are just, like, so, like, matchy, matching, mitchel. Oh, that's the best.

But I'm wondering if this one's on your list, but I can't help talk about it because I feel like I never shut up about this. Yeah. But I really like crime fiction books. that are based on true crime cases. It's not one of mine. No. So like the trap by Catherine Ryan Howard.

Yeah. Bright Young Women by Jessica Noel. The Unsub Series by Meg Gardner. It's just so interesting to me to have somebody write this story from like a different perspective or, you know, what they envision this happening had it not. had the result that it had, you know. But it's just like really interesting to me, like these people that are writing these books about like cases that people who enjoy true crime know about already, you know,

like I feel like when there's, when there's something about like Ted Bundy, they're always kind of like giving all of this information and they're like, you know, and then like his last attack on this sorority house was his worst and then he was caught you know and it doesn't like like she really like kind of dives into like the whole like who the victims were and you know focusing on that aspect because like a lot of people kind of don't focus enough on the victims um and it's the same with katherine ryan howard so yeah those those stories that are focusing on like based on true crime cases, but also focus more on the victims and the actual, like, killer themselves. I just love, love, love that trope.

Because even in, like, true crime now, like, they're like, oh, like, here's Jessica. She was, like, a 16-year-old blonde cheerleader. And, like, she lit up the room and like, da-da-da-da-da. But it's like, okay, I want to know more about her, like, who she was as a person. I don't just want to know that he, like, killed, like, a 16-year-old blonde. You know, like, I want to know, like, the people that miss her and, like, what was, like, left behind, like, her legacy, not just that she was the victim of a serial killer or a heinous crime.

Yes. So, focusing more on, like, who the victims were instead of who the curb is. Mm-hmm. I just love those stories. Yeah. So. A kind of not related note, I just had to close out one of my Google tabs. And I forgot that I, when you said you just weren't attracted.

to cowboys. I was like, well, you need to meet. And I couldn't remember the character's name from Yellowstone. But I need to send you some clips of Rip from Yellowstone. I've already seen him on TikTok. I was going to say, he just might make you like a cowboy. But I forgot that I had that pulled up earlier. I was like, why is this up?

And then I was like, oh, that's why. It's okay. I'm not into Cowboys, though, either. I think so I read like a Tal Bauer book that was like a ranger and like a deputy but they were like Texas. Yeah. You know, like they had like the jeans and the cowboy boots and stuff. And like that was fine. I just don't know if I want like a cowboy in like the sense of like a stereotype cowboy.

Or if I do read about a cowboy, I just need the other character to not be a cowboy. Yeah. That's a good point. Because the only cowboy that I've ever wanted is Jake. Jill and Hall and broke back Mountain for all you Swifties out there. You're not alone in that. Hating on me and my DMs.

Oh my gosh. Eventually I'm going to run out. With the cowboy in it. The Talbauer one was really good. Yeah. But I want you to read Cole and Noah first. I know. Amazon keeps putting them in front of me and their emails.

They're like, hey, buy these books. They're right there. they're the boys. That's awesome. I know. I need to. I have so many things to read. Same.

Harley's growling in the background. I was a little concerned there for a second. We're almost done, Harley. Books, books, books. One of my other, oh my goodness, or something in my eye, one of my other favorite things in a book is when there's, like, like a large cast or even just like two points of view but like more than one point of view where like you're actually spending time with multiple characters and um i love when an author

writes each character's perspective so well that like even if they're up against each other you're like torn between who you're pulling for so i labeled it like shifting allegiances as like what i would title this meaning like while you're reading. You're like, oh, I'm totally pulling for this person. And then you're in the other chapter and you're like, damn it, I can see their point of view. Now I'm pulling for them.

I just always love that. I feel like it like means the characters feel that real that like, that you really are able to have empathy for both characters. And so it always makes it even more fun. And I think it always impresses me too when they can make me so torn between two characters. Yeah. But the lies I tell was one that reminded me of that. Because it's like a cat and mouse kind of like con thriller.

And so you're like like literally against each other type of cat and mouse. But like you care so much about both characters the whole time. And the other one that kind of does that is pretty things from Janelle Brown. So I'm not going to say much about it. Yeah. But it really does this great job of like throughout the whole story. You're kind of like your perspective on everyone keeps changing because you spend so much time with different. characters. I just always love that. I love it in TV too. Shameless is a TV show that did it really well.

Or like sometimes like a sibling's beefing and you're like, yeah, fuck them. And then you get to that person's perspective and you're like, oh. Yeah. You know, it's like really funny too is that like I like almost like would compare it to like the real housewives, right? So like every time there's like an argument on the real houseways, like you're either on like team so and so or team so and so. And that's what I was saying to one of my friends was, like, this year with the new cast of New York, I just, like, love all of them so much that, like, even when they fight, I'm like, listen, like, it's, like, kind of like having children where you're like, I love you both. Like, sometimes you're wrong and sometimes you're wrong. And this is, like, you could have done this differently and you could have done that differently. So like, I totally get it. Like, that is very interesting to me,

especially, like, in all forms of, of fiction, not just crime fiction, but, like, that is very... You fucking hit that one, like, right on the head. My friend was talking about killing Eve yesterday, and that was also what made me think of this one. Yeah.

So you're, like, they're technically after each other. But you love both of them. And you can kind of, like, see different perspectives as to like why they do it. Yep. And then I love when it's like communication actually comes in like they learn to communicate and then like, you know, like you're just kind of, because I mean, we all have that right. Like the other day I like finished working and I was trying to get ready to eat and Murphy was being so bad. And like I took him for a walk and as soon as I got back from taking him for a walk, I was like trying to get ready to take a shower because I was like

sweating since been hot. And like my friend texted me and my text message to them was very short. And like 20 minutes later, I texted them back and I was like, I'm really sorry. Like I just got back from walking Murphy. So like I'm not trying to like, you know, be an asshole. I just wanted to respond to you to like let you know, like I, you know, make you aware that I did receive your message. But I probably didn't respond. I probably should have waited. You know what I mean? So like that's one of those situations where like, you know, she could have been like,

what an asshole. Right. You know? And then like I'm in my mind, I'm like, I'm just like so like busy right now that I'm like, oh my God, that sucks. Like, you know, whatever. Right. But it's just very interesting.

Obviously like 20 minutes later we were fine. But like if that would have been like a crime fiction book or any sort of fiction, how that can snowball. So, dang. Yeah. I cheated a little bit. Well, that's okay. You're so happy right now.

I love, I love cheating the rules. Oh, I'm frozen. Oh, that's funny. Every down then my camera freezes and we get the best freeze frames of my face. So I love that. The only reason I say I cheated is because when you told me about this, Like I was immediately thinking of like tropes and plot devices and and all of these things. And I completely like forgot that your example was enemies to lovers.

And that's one of my, that's one of mine. Like, yeah. I love an enemies to lover trope so much. And the only reason is I find it to be so much more interesting to read about people who do not like each other that fall in love, then like, if you're, like, walking down the sidewalk and you see, like, a super hot guy and you, like, make eye contact and he makes eye contact, and then, like, you, like, slowly progress into a romance, that is fine. I will still read it if they're not cowboys. Um, but, like, that to me is just, like, normal, you know, like, not, like, I mean, whatever. Who's normal nowadays anyway, but I know. It's just like, that's kind of expected, I guess, right? So like when it's enemies to lovers and it's like two people that hate each other and like, again, communication. Like something happens where they're like, if you give me an enemies to lovers with forced proximity.

Done. Oh, there you are. There you are. Me? I don't know what you said right before done. Oh. I'm done. And then it was like done.

And I was like, okay. Bye. Have a good night, everyone. No, if you give me a If you give me an enemies to lovers With forced proximity Dunzo Because it's like I find it very interesting

When two characters hate each other And then they learn something Or they find out something about another one Yes And they're just like there's that lightball moment Where they're like, wait I actually really like this person And I just There was a situation or something that had happened

That made me like hate them but now that I actually know who they are instead of focusing so much on hating them, then they fall, oh my God, I just fucking love enemies to lovers. Oh my God. Yeah. I get that. I like it even outside of romance. I think it's cool sometimes to pull off like character development where an enemy goes to even being like a friend or an ally, even if it's not romantic. Because I feel like it means both characters tend to like grow. And so then it's always, and you don't expect it always. So then you're like, oh, okay.

So I feel you. I think I just like love that moment where it's very like, like, okay, in the movie The Proposal with Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds. I love that movie. Yeah. That is one of my favorite fucking movies in the entire world. I love that movie. When she's laying in bed and she tells them that she loves the song and they start singing

and she's like, I have these two tattoos because of my parents. and like when this guy called me a bitch earlier, like you thought it didn't bother me, but I cried in the bath. And she just like lets it all out. And then, oh, my fucking God. That is one of my favorite scenes in the entire world of any movie. Sandra Bullock, like, that made me fall in love with her. Like, because she was just so, oh, my God.

I fucking love that movie. Yeah, I do too. I saw humor what we were watching recently that, like, referenced Miss Congeniality. And I haven't seen that in forever. but I am, I was dying, laughing at the clips they pulled because like in the same, in the same vein that my bings sometimes look like Larry. My generally living with me is more like miscongeniality before she went to the beauty competition. Tyler's like, it's you. We found you again.

And he's not wrong. He's just not wrong. my god i feel the same way about like lucy hale's character and um the hating game yes yeah where she just like wants to read her books and like her mom calls and she's like what are you doing she's like i'm heading out to like go hang out with some friends and she's like eating like take out chinese food like oh my god yeah sometimes i'm like oh god just a little sassy little introvert oh my gosh i love my enemies though yes i just love enemies to love i know one of my favorite things is and it's something that you can almost it's kind of like you can only pull it off in book sometimes

because you're not seeing it like as a movie or a TV show and it's when two characters are revealed to actually be one character whether that's a point of view like it's like actually you've been with both points of views or it's like you've known about two separate characters characters and then all of a sudden you find out they're somehow like the same person. So the book that I read the most recently that made me think of this one, I can't, I can't even tell you what it is because it will ruin it. But I thought of one. And so if somehow you have not read or watched a big little lies, just give ahead 30 seconds. But when we find out that, oh, you're going to have to help me out with a second name. We find out select. Lest's husband is who's the new girl?

Jane? Yeah, is Jane's rapist? It's like that kind of a thing where all of a sudden you're like, oh, oh my gosh. And obviously they were able to pull that off on TV for different reasons. But like sometimes you can only do it in a book because you're just creating your own image of like whatever these characters are. So you don't know that they could be visually the same person. So I don't know when that happens. yeah i fucking love that too you know what like my favorite like my favorite example of that being pulled off

is the i know what you did last summer book from like the 70s so like the book has a different ending than the movie but like yeah there's one character referencing like this guy named like bud or buddy uh-huh and like in her perspective she's like like buddy walked to the door and de blah blah and then another character calls him like something else and you just think that they're two different characters but that in the end when everybody's together like she's like buddy and she's like whatever her she thought his name was and you're just like oh my god it's the same person and it's just like I agree with you like it's very hard to pull off in a TV show or a movie mm-hmm it's like when you were saying that too it's reminding me sometimes it's like

someone actually was like using the character's middle name or something or you finally like put together that like one character has the shortened version of another character's name. Yes. Wait a second. Yes. Oh my God. It's such a satisfying moment. Yeah.

Oh, I love those. Like those reveals are my favorite. Yeah. That's a good one. That's a really good one. I can't even like think of any other than I know what you did last summer in the book. but I'm afraid to ask you I've read this year but it would totally give them away

because you're not even really expecting it. Yeah. I'll just have to wait until like I read them and then like tell you when I read them and you can be like, well obviously when I tell you I read it, I'll know the ending. Right. Yeah, I love that.

Oh. Okay. I saved my favorite one for last. But I have to have like a explanation for this because right now with male male romances um there are there's a lot of heat with this so like some people say like what's your favorite trope in romance and somebody might say gay romance and like people who are queer are like my sexuality is not your trope yeah um so there's like kind of people who have different opinions and views on this

So I'm not going to call this a trope or a plot device. I'm just going to say, like, I love books that feature by awakenings. Yeah. Or queer awakenings. Whenever there's a situation where, like, you know, I don't really like, I'm not going to call it a trope because somebody, you know, bisexuality or queerness is not a trope for, you know, people to be like this, like to, like, to. group it in a romance. But right, right. I just like love when obviously there's a happily ever after and I love when like two little soulmates find each other and have like little hot sex between like the first chapter and the last. And I just love that for them and I enjoy that.

So like when somebody meets someone else that makes them come to terms with realize, question or whatever the case with their sexuality that like, you know, they were not looking for this specific person. I just love it. I love a by awakening. I love when like somebody's like, I've never been attracted to a man before, but like this guy is like doing all of the things for me or this woman is. I just think that is so. Yes. So good in a book. And the reason I love it is because I think that there's like a lot of things when people say like, you shouldn't have a straight actor playing a bisexual or queer role. Right.

And I can see like people's points, but also like unless someone comes out and says their entire sexual history, they're such a huge spectrum with it. So like, even if they've only hooked up with or dated one man in their life, they might know, they might use that experience to like play that character. And I just like think it's like so interesting when like you find that person that makes you, you know, you're. No, I agree. I think it's cool.

And like it's like when I've read books that have had that kind of stuff in it, I think what's like powerful about it to me is that it's about it's actually. actually so much about the person. You know what I mean? Like that's part of what sticks out to me sometimes is like it didn't like gender isn't even a part of what makes you like who I want to be with. You know what I mean? Like sometimes that's what's kind of cool about it. Like I just love who you are as a person this much. But what you were when you were just saying that wasn't there like a cat like an actor year recently? I feel like it was in outer banks when like people bullied him kind of into like needing to come out and say that he was gay.

And it's like, why did he have to tell people that? Like, why was it that big a deal? What was that? When you were saying that, it was reminding me of that where it's like just because, and it might have been because he was playing a gay character, but I can't remember perfectly. But it was like just because basically he was getting hate that it's like, oh, if you don't say that you're gay, that means you're ashamed of it.

And he's like, yeah, it doesn't necessarily have to mean that either. But then he was like, no. he was like 17 and like kind of got like forced heart stop or like statement about it is that what it was yeah yeah well i just think like yeah especially in like the media like you could have an actor or actress or you know whoever you could have a person who has only publicly been seen with men or women right and then like just because they've only been seen with men or women doesn't mean they've never fallen in love with another man or another woman in their life you know like it doesn't mean that they haven't done that in their private life. And like a celebrity that's not owe anybody an

explanation, you know, like, and that's what I'm kind of like not realizing, because I've always felt this way about that. But I also am enjoying it in different books where there's, you know, always a different like past with that person where they're like, I hooked up with a guy once, but I never thought that I would date, you know, a man or fall in love with a man or like, I've always found men to be like attractive but like I've never done this and now that I have like I'm realizing that I might be bisexual or like yeah you know I just like have always been so focused on my career or school or something that like I didn't really ever sleep with a man and now that I have like I'm realizing it there's just like so much and it's just like I also like love it for the other

character when they like just like come like walking into someone's life and like make them like realize all of these things about like themselves and their identity and sexual like I just like love all of that you know as long as it's not I mean I haven't read any yet that I have been like distasteful or offensive but right I just love it I love it so much yeah you know and I agree like you shouldn't call like by awakening or male male romance like a trope you know but I do love it as like something that's featured in but by awakening is like more of an event than just the whole identity. So it's like

it's kind of closer to being a trope. Yeah. Like just being by. It's like you're saying you like experiencing the moment they like realize it. Yeah. Yeah. So I just like love it. I just love it in a story. It just makes me like so happy and I just like really enjoy. I think I'm like mostly happy for that character when they come to turns

and like they realize that about themselves. And then they're just like falling in love and being happy and that's what everybody should get to do. You don't have to fall in love. You just have good sex and be happy. Yeah, that too. Do whatever works for you. It's all we want in life.

Mm-hmm. We have some good tropes. Oh my God. That was so much fun.