Bookwild - Our Favorite Tropes with Olivia Day Wallace

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

This week, I talk with the co-host of Thrillers By the Book Club Podcast Olivia Day Wallace about our favorite tropes in thrillers!Books We Talked AboutMurder RoadNightwatchingAlias EmmaMy Darling HusbandThe MentorI’m Not Done With You YetTh1rt3enFourth MonkeyOriginal TwinWhere You End Blood RubiesCounterfeitNena Knight SeriesThe Inheritance GamesVery Bad ThingsHouse on the Cerulean SeaOn the SurfaceChloe Kates is MissingDark CornersEveryone is WatchingHow to Kill Men and Get Away with ItThey Never LearnIf Something Happens to MeFirst Lie WinsBluffThe Night SidePretty ThingsLook CloserSometimes I LieNone of This is TrueSmall SecretsThe InmateThis Girl’s a KillerLook in the MirrorWhat We'll Burn LastThe Midnight FeastYou Will Never Be MeLadykillerEverybody KnowsIt Had to Be YouThe Peacock and the SparrowLong Time Gone Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

I am so excited this week because I'm with Olivia Day Wallace, who is a book to grammar, a writer, a podcast host herself for Thrillers by the Book Club, which I always mess up when I try to say it out loud. So I'm glad I got it at that time. So welcome to Book Wild. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I just, I love talking to people about thrillers and crime fiction. So I was like, yes, I will be here in like two seconds. Yes. Yes. Yes. Me too. I seriously could just do it literally forever, obviously, which is why both of us have podcasts about it. Yeah, exactly. Because it's like, it wasn't talking about it enough. So I needed to start one. Right. It's so fun, though. I don't know if you had like a similar experience, but mine is kind of like the people that I know or meet in real life don't necessarily read thrillers. Like I feel like, because some people even read, but they typically read like maybe like self-help or occasional or business or maybe. Or literary. Like, look, there's nothing wrong with literary.

No. I will, no, I don't want to cry book. Like life is sad enough. I'm going to get into some murder, thriller things because I don't want to cry. And so I've tried that with book clubs before. Like, we're like, oh, I'm going to start a book club. And then they're like, well, can we read something that's not like, you know, the darker? And it's like, no.

Why? I don't want to read that. I know. And I love that you clearly agree with me and that most murderers doesn't make me cry. It's the other. It doesn't. It doesn't. If you're like an animal in the book, like forget it. Like I'll, I will DNF. I won't put it down. Whatever. But, uh, or I'll put it down. But yeah, like humans, sorry. It's just. I know. I know. I probably watched too much true crime and I'm like desensitized to it at this point. Probably. Probably. Probably. I saw, well, So we're recording this on April 18th. So if you go to Instagram, it's not going to necessarily have been there today. But I saw it today.

Megan Collins posted like. Yes, her new one. I'm so excited. And her like dedication. And like, I don't know if then this was like the epigraph as well. But it says like there's a dog and the cat in this book. And she basically goes on to say like, and I can promise you that they get no harm. And she's like, I can't promise the same for the humans.

And I was like, you are my kind of girl. Yeah. That's exactly. Honestly, that's the only trigger warning I need at the beginning of the book. Just do an author's note, the dog's going to be fine, the cat's going to be fine, or like, it's not going to be. So then I'm like, cool, I will not read this. Yes.

Yeah, we saw, oh my gosh, we saw a monkey man in theaters last night. I, it's the best movie I've seen in a very long time. Like, what is that? I have no idea it's going to do that movies. So it's Dev Patel. He's for some people for Conradian. context. He's the guy from some dog millionaire. This was like his passion project. He's been working on it since like 2019, I believe. And he wrote, produced, directed, and started in it.

Like I'm always so important by those kind of stories. That's so impressive. He's like, that is his story. That's, you could tell that's passion. Yes. Yeah. And the best way I could pitch it, it because it has so many things that incorporates it into is it is an action thriller whoa why did fireworks just go off on my camera I don't know what you want you can't you want you can go on YouTube and watch what just happened. But his pitch for it even is that it's John Wick in Mumbai. And so that encapsulates a lot of it, but it actually has like so much heart to it. So it's like the reason that he wants this revenge is really, really emotionally powerful.

But I don't want to tell you anything because what I passed out, because what I was so impressed by is like in the first 20, minutes, how many questions they bring up where they're not totally telling you like everything about where he's going and like what he wants. And so the way it all is revealed is great. So like the rest of my pitch is just it manages to incorporate like boxing movie vibes, superhero vibes, um, John Wick vibes. And it's a revenge story. And it's it the, it's so stylish and beautiful. But all of that to say, there's a dog that gets, that's my dog barking at me. No, there's a dog that gets introduced at like 15 minutes and I turned to Tyler and I was like, that dog better not die. And the dog didn't die. So I'm here to tell everyone that animals are safe

and monkey man. Okay, great. That's an excellent point. I like, I definitely check does the dog die.com constantly. We were watching something the other day. I don't know, but it was like a dog. was in the beginning and I was like, hang on, we got to pause it. I got to look and see if the dog dies or whatever. It was, oh, oh my gosh, we were watching the new Fallout series on Amazon. Oh, I keep hearing that it's great. It is so good, so good. Like, it's like, it has some action and stuff, but it's very dystopian. And then, you know, you've got like a, like the female character is not a Mary Sue because they actually show her, like, some of the things that she's doing ahead of time like before.

So when she starts to kick ass, it actually like makes sense and like seems logical and all these things. But it's so well done. Stylized like the setting that they have and the like props, whatever the costumes, unbelievable. So good. So so good. But the dog does not die in that either.

He does get stabbed, but he doesn't die. Ooh, he's a resilient dog. He's a resilient dog. He's a good boy. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like a lot of people that probably listen to this podcast also know about yours, but do you want to like briefly discuss yours just for people who don't know? Yeah, yeah.

So it's called Thrillers by the Book Club podcast. We have new episodes every Tuesday. Our seasons are about like 10ish episodes. And we, we start with just kind of chit-chat. But then we also interview different people in the publishing industry. So something that was really important to me when we started was we wanted to talk about authors for sure, but there's so many people that touch a book in order for it to get from an author's head to our hands or to our ears. And so we've had audiobook narrators and publicists and editors and things like that.

So it's really it's really been fun to learn more about the industry. And then we also do Pub Day shoutouts. So when I do those research, I look at some of like the big ones that I look at some of like the big ones that I I know we're coming, but I really try to focus on midlist or like indie authors and stuff, because there's so many good ones out there that, you know, we never see and that has to do in the publishing houses, not the authors. And then we each recommend a book. So it's just kind of like we're sitting and we're like, hey, this is a book I just read

and like review it or whatever. So in the end, most of the time, I hear a lot that people walk away with a lot of recommendations from every episode, which is great because my co-host, Chelsea, is a three. or book babe on Instagram and you know we have differing taste so it kind of like runs the gamut which is pretty fun yeah it is really cool when you have like some shared interests but like also like branch out a little bit and just kind of get to hear from different sides of yeah like she's like really she's kind of leaning more into horror now and I'm like that ain't my jam but like yeah but I appreciate that though like I don't yeah

I don't know that I would have read Simone St. James if it hadn't been, you know, her talking about those things. So, and I love Simone St. James. So, yeah. Yeah, it's been, it's been really interesting to kind of see all different sorts of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you read her new one or murder road? Yes. Okay. I haven't read it yet. I didn't get access to it. So that's my. Have you read some of her other ones? Yes. Not all of them. And do you read like much paranormal horror? No, she's like the exception. Yeah.

Okay. Same same same. So for me, because I was like, I don't feel, I watch horror movies all the time. Last night I watched paranormal activity. Like that was just my night, like, relax movie for the night. So I watched a lot of horror. But, and I always have like, I didn't know, I thought a book, people would be like, oh, this book scared the crap out of me.

And I'm like, how can a book scare you? You could just put it down. Like you're not in it. Right. But I listened to this book on audio and I was like physically reading it too. And there's a scene that I literally jumped. I had a jump scare and I was like, I don't even know that that was possible. Did not even know it was possible.

It blew me away. So highly recommend because I was like there's because you know, you're just so in it. Like why are you going to, you're not going to be like, oh, okay. Well, I guess the tension's there. Oh, surprise. But it actually did. I was like, what the hell? Yeah.

That is, that's impressive. I love. So along those lines, I feel like you, did you read Nightwatching? I just started reading night watching. Oh, yes. Yes, I did. Okay. So that was one that like also people like, I've had it for a little bit, but I, uh, right before, right before I was going to pick it up, someone told me, I think Audrey told me not to read it if I was home alone and my husband had like just left for a work trip. So I kind of like put it back. And then I've been like going through my like net galley like just trying to read through those and get reviews in for that so I just started night watching literally this morning and I was like okay I could see why like this would be a little bit creepy to read alone in my house at night yes yes no it's um that one was

really good and I'm a huge fan right now we were we were going to talk kind of talk tropes but this is a trope that I absolutely love yeah home invasion trope because it is one of my biggest fears so And I think that through thrillers, we often face our fears, right? Through books in general. But for me, it's a lot around the crime thing. So I read it and I was like, okay, this is, yeah, this is super creepy. It's the 50% point. And then I was like, I don't know where this book's going to go from here.

So just like, it takes a total turn. And you're like, what the hell just that's even what? I was wondering, because like, I don't think it's really a spoiler to say that you like start out with like the main character wakes up. And like she knows there's. man in her house like this is like first page type stuff so i was even like looking at i'm like this is a 355 page book like where's it's gonna go exactly which is always kind of fun like when you're like because it's such a like a specific concept too where like i know there are flashbacks from like

what i've talked to people about so i'm sure that's going to be like part of it that adds to it but sometimes at the beginning you're like how like you think it's probably going to play out over like one night which again, I don't totally know. But it is cool seeing just like the different ways that like stories can like stretch where like there are sometimes books that one that I talk about all the time. I haven't talked about too recently is Ava Glass's first, alias Emma was the first in her, the spy thriller series. And it takes place in less than 24 hours. And it's like the spy having to take an asset all the way across. London, like from one side to the other. But the, um, the bad guys, which I think are Russians in this

case, um, have like infiltrated the CCTV network. So she has to do it without like crossing in front of any cameras, basically. Ooh. Oh my God. I love that. Probably like 16 hours, not even 24 hours. And I remember just like finishing it and being like, that was so good. And like a whole day doesn't even pass. Ava Glass, you said, right? Yeah. And then her second one is the trader. And then I think the, actually, I don't know if I just saw she posted about her next one

coming out, but I don't know if it is the third in the series or if it's a standalone. Okay, it is. I've never heard. I haven't heard of it. The third one comes out in August. Okay. Yeah, I think that that sounds awesome. I'm going to add it to my TVR here.

But I like that too because it's really interesting when you're reading a book. So when you're writing, and I'm sure you know this, Kate, when you're writing, you're thinking about like how long is this timeline, right? Because a short timeline instantly creates tension. And so Kimberly Bell a couple years ago had my darling husband that came out. And it was about a home invasion and it takes place over like less than eight hours. That was the most intense, like relentless, nonstop, crazy like oh my i was like like so anxious the whole time and it was amazing i loved that one and i'm trying to make sure it's it's not a spoiler but like the the kid in the plot line was like so cool oh my god she was so cool she was so cool she was like who i want to be when i grow up

one day yes i was like you are goals yes exactly yeah yeah so have you have you What have you read? What have you been reading lately that you've liked? Oh, well, I kind of message you about this one. So the last book I read, I've had to, I've had to take a couple days because it was really intense. I just read The Mentor by Lee Matthew Goldberg. And it is, it's about a guy who just becomes an editor at a major publishing house. And then his old mentor from college sends him this book. And it's like, hey, like, maybe you can do it. And this guy's like, oh, my God, you're my mentor. Like, I love you.

Absolutely, I'll read it. So excited. And then things get weird. And it almost seems like he's confessing to crimes in this story. So then we spend half the time in the editor's head, the main character's head, Kyle. We spend the other half of the time in the professor's head. And I, like, when I got done with it, I messaged the author. And I was like, I need like 20 showers.

Like that was just a lot of dark, a lot of dark. And he was like, yeah, that's my most depraved book. And I was like, depraved is the perfect way to describe it. I love dark books. But I was like, oh, okay. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

I know you are, the cover is so cool too. Like, is it? So creative. Yeah, I love this cover. Yeah. But you definitely have me intrigued by this one. I mean, if you read it, if and when you read it, let me know. Because honestly, like, I don't know anyone who.

who's read this and I was like, what just happened? Right. But those are like that when you're just like, wow, that, that really just happened. Yeah, exactly. I kind of felt that way, I've had that same experience, like, when I read, I'm not done with you yet by Jesse Q. Sutanto. Oh, yeah.

Have you read that one? Wild. Okay. So it's like that feeling afterwards of like, okay, that was just, I was just in someone's brain. and wow this is that exact kind of vibe yeah i kind of felt that way with kill for me kill for you here recently was another one just because it was so dark and then like the twist was just fantastic but like there was just like so many dark and like kind of brutal not even kind of brutal

there just were some brutal scenes in that one but it was so good like i couldn't put it down oh my god so i haven't read it yet but i i did get it because i I'm dying to read it. Yeah. Because have you read 13 by Steve Kavana? I haven't read that one by him. No. Holy crap.

So that's where it's the, the killers on the jury. Yeah. And it's the same thing. Like you're in the killer's head most of the time. And then you get to see a lot of his history. Which the history stuff kind of reminded me a little bit of fourth monkey by J.B. Barker. So. I've heard that one.

Yeah. So it's just like, oh, they're so good. They're so good. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just so like, okay, if I need a dark book, those are where I'm going to go. Right. So I'm like, you can't find something gritty enough. It's got to be super dark.

Yeah. Kill for me, kill for you is like that. Like definitely pretty dark and gritty, in my opinion. And a lot of people I talk to about it too. Um, I just finished yesterday. I just finished one that comes out on May 28th. And it's called Original Twin by Paul. Gleason.

Okay. It's her debut. So I love a debut. I love supporting debut. I know. I agree. And it was just like a really good like I would call it a popcorn thriller for the most part.

Like it's just kind of like wines all around the place. And it's about these. Well, it's from the perspective, mainly of one twin. But these twin sisters were like born minutes apart. And so one was born in May and one was born in May. and one was born in June, and so their names are May in June. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I know.

Twins are so fun in thrillers, and I don't know why, but it's like always captivating. I know, I agree. I agree. I just read one with twins in it, too. I'll have to look at it because I can't remember. I can't remember anything. I just know what I like, but I don't remember anything. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so. Yeah, so May comes home because her sister June has been missing for, a year and her family's finally having like a funeral for the sake of closure. And then when she comes home, she's kind of like walking around June's room and finds a newspaper article hidden in something that basically says that their mother went missing on the exact same day when she was 19 as well. So May and June, basically June disappeared when she was 19th on like it's September 2nd or something like that. And now May finds an article that.

that says that when their mom was 19, she disappeared on September 2nd of another year. So then May starts like following all these clues that her sister kind of left behind to figure out what happened to their mom and maybe to see what happened to June and where she is. And it was just like a really twisty, crazy family secrets missing person thriller. It was really fun. All right. that sounds awesome yeah yeah I'll have to read that as well I just added it like that's all I'm gonna do here the whole time is that's my good reason you too but so another twin book that I read

recently is where you end by abbott caller okay um and it's about a set of twins that one of them gets in some sort of accent or something and she wakes up she has amnesia she doesn't remember anything except she remembers her twin and then the twin like fills in like here's what history was and the story of our lives. And it's like inspired by that documentary on Netflix that's about those two twin brothers and then one hand amnesia and then the other one was like, oh, our life was so great. And it turns out it was not great. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's like it's that. That is that sounds very creepy. This cover is creepy too. It is super cool with the rabbits on it. Yeah, the rabbits. I had like a really random dream with

a guy and a creepy rabbit mask hunting me down. So rabbits are just going to scare me for the next month. Don't watch Johnny Darkin then is what I'm going to guess. Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to be rewatching that. It's not going to be really watching that. Yeah. Another one that I read, if people are into kind of action thrillers, one that I read here, actually right before original twin, It comes out May 7th, but it's called Blood Ruby's by Mylan Doquang. And it's basically this main character, Rune, is she learned how to steal jewels. Like, basically, she's a jewel thief. And she's been kind of like coordinating these heists with her boyfriend kit.

And then she steals from like this really wealthy jewel smut. but she actually gets made on the way out of the hotel. And so then he's able to basically use security footage to figure out who she is. And so through the course of this as well, Kit, her boyfriend, his sister goes missing. And so they go to find her. And in the process of trying to find her, she loses the rubies. So then by the time that Charles, this wealthy smuggler catches up with her she doesn't have them anymore so now she basically he gives her 24 hours or 48 hours one of the two to find the jewels and do something else or he's basically going to kill her boyfriend so now she's like trying to figure out where his sister is and try to find these jewels

for this guy all in like a couple hours so it takes place in Thailand and New York so it's kind of like feels like an international, like, sky thriller, but it's with a jewel of thief. So that one's kind of fun. That was really, so do you read a lot of heist? A decent amount, I feel like would be the answer. Yeah. Like, I think. Yeah, I haven't read very many heists.

I think I've read, um, counterfeit, which really isn't a heist, but kind of is. Yeah, I haven't read very much other than that. Um, that one is about a woman. I don't totally remember everything, but I know that she has like a fake designer, like creating thing, whatever, what am I trying to say? Yeah, I remember another country. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I have it saved because I remember the cover when you said that.

Yeah, yeah. So that one I think is pretty good, but I haven't really read a ton of heist ones, but I do like really like the TV show leverage and that's all heists. So maybe, yeah. I loved that show. Nobody knows leverage. Yes. Is that T&T or USA? It was one of those. I can't remember one of those. Something like that. Yeah. I love that one. Because USA for sure was white collar. I loved white collar too with back. White color was great. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I was also gorgeous, man. Oh, my Lord. What? How are you so beautiful? How are you so beautiful? It's insane. I could go on and he was like, my like crush for the longest time yeah yeah gorgeous i love the dark hair blue eyes i know um

so what other heist books then um do you recommend because i just i'm like i know that i do read them but like what was the last one that i read like when you said that i couldn't really i think i probably just read more kind of spy action thrillers because i can't think of like an exact heist one that I've read recently. But I really kind of like Ava Glass that I just mentioned here before. I really like kind of the spy action feeling. And actually when we watched Monkey Man last night, there was a lot about his like really traumatic origin story that reminded me of

Yasmin Ongo has a series, the Nina Knight series. And that is one of my favorite like spy thriller series. ever. Oh, I have the first one, but I didn't know it was a spy series. Yeah, there were two more. I'm supporting debuts. Right. Okay, great.

Yeah, so she did two more. And so that's like one of my, that's like, those ones I think of with my like action thrillers, not, I guess, I guess it's not really heist. I can't name another heist one that I've read recently. Yeah, maybe like a portrait of a thief. I think that's a heist one. I feel like I've seen when I was recently doing updates about what's coming in the next couple of months.

I feel like there was at least one or two that I was like, oh, see more heist books. Yeah. Because I thought about, I know Lee Bardugo's, is it Six of Crows? Is that what it's called? She does. I know there's one called Six of Crows that they are little, their little gang of thieves. Yes. And I know that like it's kind of about a heist, the first one.

But I'm always, it's hard for me to get it. I don't always love YA. So I've never started it. You do. But people tell me I might like that one. I've heard that, and again, I am all for it if this is what you love to read. I've heard that it's like really angsty, like the kind of like love triangles and stuff. And like it just doesn't do it for me most of the time.

So I think that's why I've kind of stayed at like Y.A. and angst. Like I think it just wasn't even that anxiety of myself. Yeah. Same. Well, it's funny you're saying that because I read, I was like in a slump. So I was like, I'm going to read something different. I read the inheritance games. And just the first one.

Okay. So it's definitely YA. It's definitely angsty. But it got me out of a slump. It was like just such a fun. Like, okay. That's kind of a fun. There's some good things going on here.

If I was a teenager, that would just, I would have gobbled up the whole series, like, right away. Yeah. So, yeah. But I was like, I don't really need to read more. Like, I got it. Like I got the point. My niece, she's 13. And she, like, just realized that she liked.

thrillers. So I got like the coolest text ever from my sister-in-law where she was like, what thrillers can I recommend to her? And I was like, oh my gosh, this is like the moment I've been training for. Yes. So she's been reading it. And it's made me like almost pick it up. But like I just can't stop requesting books on that galley. So dude, it's so bad. I am so right now at this point, I'm only taking net galleys that are being emailed to me. Like if I've already signed up for like a influencer program and selected it or whatever. Or like randomly get an email. But I'm so behind.

And I get stressed out. I get super stressed about being behind on this because I know how important they are. But I don't want to give like a fake review. And like it's just like so much pressure. And I don't know if you have this experience. But since I started learning how to write, I have a really hard time physically reading books, either physical or e-books because then I start analyzing. it. Like I started reading J.T. Ellison's newest one, very bad things. Love, love her. We'll read

anything that she writes. And I start like, then I'm like, then I'm like, ooh, that's showing, not telling. Ooh, that's this. Yeah. Could that be foreshadowing? And then I don't even enjoy the book anymore. So like, it's just as weird. I have to do audio books because otherwise I'm not in it. It's weird. Yeah. I was kind of scared it would happen like that for me. But I think it's more, I don't know. I somehow, I, I still can get like lost in a book, but I still find myself making the highlights where I'm like, oh, this was a good way to like, or or kind of, um, thinking in terms of like save the cat, I'll be like, oh, so we're writing incident.

This is where we're at. Yeah. Here's a good way to like do the midpoint. All hope is lost. Yeah. So I still do. And sometimes I, when you said like the show not tell there was, I can't remember what I was reading, but like there was some sentence that was like, there was some sentence that was like,

like it was like mentioning like her new or new like something I'm like totally butchering it now at this point but it was along the lines of like she still wasn't used to the brown hair color she'd been forced to switch to when she got the news that someone was in town and it like said so much that just that said so much that said so much yeah yeah it's a I think reading um because I feel like I can you can kind of start to tell the difference between authors early in their career and to authors that are like they're into their career like well in yeah um just because of the prose is so much tighter and literally like every word has meaning in a different way and it's so it's really amazing when a debut comes out with that because i don't feel like that always happens yeah they always feel

like a little bit of a lighter prose but like yeah really well-established um authors just it's just different reading their books Yeah. Yeah, it does. I agree. And then every now and then you are like, how are you a debut author? Yeah, right? So many of them.

I think it was Ashley Winstead. So first, when I read in my dreams, I, I de-inept it four times before I read it. I just could not. I just, you know how it's like sometimes you're just like, I just can't do it? Yeah. Then I read it and it was five stars. Like, amazing. But, so this is just like sometimes there are books that are like, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm going to save it because I feel like I'll come back to that.

Yeah. But her writing to me is just, I've said this to her before. Like, I feel like I'm reading more literature thriller, like literary thriller, but not literary where it's like over the top prose where it's all flowery. And I'm like, yeah. I can't. I just can't do it. I like always want to. It does.

That's how it is for me. and it feels like there's just not stuff happening. And I have just, like, accepted about myself in the last, I don't know, like, six months. I kind of have been, like, saying I'm a pacing snob, which, like, it's not like I'm actually looking down on books that, like, but it doesn't work for me as much. Like, what I've definitely noticed is, like, I just do need things to be happening. Like, I just, yeah. Which, like, obviously it's great if you, like, really love to have, like, the field of lavender

described to you that you're like walking through like great but it like pros out there yeah it just yeah I end up like okay is any are we going to do anything I know it's rough because I have a couple books that I'm like I'm so excited to read them they look so good and I've done the same thing I picked them up a couple of times and then I just start and I'm just like that's too pretty that's too Yeah. Like I'm reading thrillers. Like I'm expecting, you know, more not blunt, but like that's the only way I can really describe it, like more blunt writing. It's more like straightforward writing. And so I always find it really interesting when thrillers do really well that are very. So I'm like, how is that? It doesn't feel like a thriller to me. Like that's a beautiful suspense or whatever. But like, right. I'm expecting

action, short sentences, short chapters. You're just like, we're getting through it. I love plot driven. I know a lot of people have character-driven. I love a plot-driven book. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Do you venture outside of thrillers often at all? Sometimes it's in the last couple of years.

Actually, since I started the podcast, no. Yeah. I don't have time. I just don't have time. But I love like a good romance every now and then where I'll just be like, I know this book is going to take me like five hours to read and it's just going to be like a me you know whatever i feel good sometimes i'll do that but yeah yeah there's been a few times i've tried in this last year and it just typically doesn't work out for me like everyone's heard me

talk about at this point but like seven husbands of evelyn hugo and like um taylor jen reads big four or whatever like yeah they all really worked for me and so then every now and then like especially if i see something compared to one of those books i'll be like maybe that really would work for me. I have not had it work out for me very often. So I'm just like, I don't know. I just think it's not. Sometimes I'm like, you would like, I would like reach a bigger audience, I think is the thing that's like tempting about it. But then I don't have like me and I'm like, I'm not going to talk about it anyway. So. Yeah. No, I have it totally the same thing. I mean, that's, I mean, part of it is that we in the podcast, we specifically are talking

thrillers, mystery, crime, whatever. So I'm already in the genre. But I've thought about that too. Like how we could have much more reach. There could be engaging new audiences and stuff. But the end of the day, when I go to like read a book, I want to be like, holy crap. What the hell just happened? Like I want that feeling.

Yeah. I don't, a lot of times I find that a lot of the more literary or women's fiction or whatever it's like, just like, okay. Or I cry. And I don't want, and neither of those. Neither of those are like, although I will say, have you read T.J. Clune's House on the Surreliancy? Mm-mm. Okay.

That is a, that one is not a crime book in any way, shape, or form. It's more of like a fantasy. And it does, like, it did make me cry, but it is a beautiful book. Like, I 100%, like, I pre-ordered the next one because I was like, oh, wow. Okay, I really liked it. Yeah. And I love that it has, it's magical, kind of like, it's kind of like set in the ministry of magic from Harry Potter, but then also not. And then it has like a LGBTQ love story and like

learning how to own yourself. It's beautiful. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I, um, oh, you just said something that made me think. What did it just make me think? I don't know why it disappeared. Oh my gosh. I had a whole thought. Actually, I mean, I know why I had to, I had to take Benadryl today because my allergies were so bad. So that's probably what's literally happening to me right now. And I was like, I literally just had a really specific thought when you brought it up. But I guess it's completely gone. It's just completely left me. Oh, no, it was about crying.

That's what it is. I'm such an easy crier. It's like also the like truth of it. Like I cry watching TikTok sometimes like about things that like I wouldn't want to happen in my life. But like I know it means so much to the person and I'm just like sitting there crying watching it. So I, I'm just like it's just like I'm. a lot faster to cry to begin with. And I just, I am most of the time. I'm like, that's not what I'm here for most of the time. I cried like a baby in Carrie Soto is back and seven husbands of Evelyn

Hugo. So those like, and it was like a good cry like in the moment. You're like, because I care about these characters so much. It's like a beautiful cry feels very different than like a sad cry. Yeah. Like the people who talk about a little life, why would you read that? That's just trauma. That's just trauma. Why would you read that? Yes.

Everyone like it's like, one of the murder, the better. Yeah. Everyone's like wrecked after they read it. It's funny because it's a conversation Garrett and I have even had before on year is like I also, and you may be this way too if you're kind of not going to your stories to cry. I, as much as like in real life, I know life is not about happy ending. and obviously thrillers are like typically about some like crazy stuff happening.

I like really want a sense of like overcoming something by the end. Like when you were saying like we kind of face our fears with thrillers. I think some of it is that. Like I enjoy being able to read a story where like it feels like someone overcomes something. Even if it's not like, I'm not saying a perfect ending. But like Gare just loves a like gut wrenching like depressing ending to a book. And I'm just like, sometimes I know it's like right for the story or whatever. But like, I'm like, I just kind of want to feel like my character had some wins by the end of it.

Yeah. I mean, especially in a in a crime book because there's always like, you're dealing people with death and all of these different things or their life is on the line or whatever. Like you want them to have like some sort of clothes or some sort of something at the end there. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. I mean, they're not happy endings by. means necessarily.

They're just wrapped up. And open-ended, like you get to interpret, oh, I hate it. I hate it. It drives me so crazy. I know. Wrap it up for me. I don't want to think about it. Give me an answer.

Exactly. I know. The only ones that I'm sometimes okay with is if some of the messaging of the book maybe if I feel like knowing what happened in the rest of the story, there's one I'm thinking of right now. And I don't know if it's a spoiler to say that it's kind of an open-ended ending. But I don't think it is. Midnight is the darkest hour kind of ends on an open ending. For me, though, like as a reader, I felt like given like the full context of everything she talked about in the book, I felt like I could kind of decide what I thought the ending was.

So I wasn't like super pissed about that one. So sometimes if it feels like you've kind of given me enough information to kind of feel like I know where the story was supposed to go, then I'm kind of okay with it. Most of the time, like I don't want it just like totally open ended. Like I mean, I love an open ending where like maybe the bad guy got away and we kind of see them again later or something like that. Like that's cool. But yeah. No, it's just a, I think just like everything to be closed up. That's the thing. Like, there are cases, right?

Again, true crime. I like, I don't really gravitate towards the unsolved cases so much because I think the same thing where I'm just like, well, it's open ended. And now this guy could be out here. Yeah. So I want to know what happens. Yeah. I'm really the same way on that.

Sounds like we have a lot in common. Which we knew. Yeah, of course. Of course. So have you noticed? any new tropes coming up in books lately? Ooh, that's a really good question. I feel like, and it could be, it could be my bias or it could be true.

I feel like kind of like influencers in books or even just like maybe just content creators too. There's one that I'm really excited about that I just got on NetGalley called On the Surface by Rachel McGuire and like the really short blurb is like a a YouTubering cruiser couple sales the world living their best life until one of them goes missing in their whole world capsizes. So I really, really enjoy that. And I feel like I've been reading more kind of like I'm even thinking of who, Chloe, is it just called Chloe Kate's missing Mandy McHugh's first?

Yeah, yeah. I really love it to the way. it used it and then Jesse Hughes to Tonto's next one coming out is also about an influencer. I don't know why I can't think of the name. But I'm, I also think about like my bias because like I think because like I post on Instagram and have a podcast and it's like technically even what we do for work. It's like that might be why it's popping up for me more. but I feel like kind of like doing the like sinister side of influencing is popping up more.

Yeah, I would agree with you. I definitely think that that's really common. Have you read Megan Golden's newest one? It's the second one after night swim. No, I still, dark corners. I still need to read that. Dark corners. Okay, yeah, that is like heavy influencer, right?

So she ends up being called over to help identify this body, talk to this prisoner, involved, all that stuff. But then she ends up at an influencer conference, like one of the cons down in Florida. And so there's all of these, like, so I was like, oh, that was really interesting. But I do agree that in podcasts, I'm seeing tons and tons of podcasts, which I actually think kind of speaks to the zeitgeist of our culture right now. So not too mad about it. Yeah.

But you mentioned one thing. So I've noticed a trend in two different kinds of tropes. Cruise ships, like that's, I've seen tons of cruise ships and games. and games. Like, so like I know Claire McIntosh is coming out with a new one and hers is a game-based one. And then, yeah, there's like,

I just have been noticing a lot more. Heather Gruncuff's new one. Everyone is watching was supposed to be like, it's like, Clue Me's Big Brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's just like a lot more that we're seeing game. And I like it because,

I think it's just like a different way of looking at it because a lot of serial killer I love I will read a serial killer book all day long. I mean, constantly. But I mean, it's also a trope that's used a ton, right? So like this has been kind of a new way of like, why would the people be in a locked room situation? They're on a game show. Yes.

Yes. Yeah, Will Deans was like that last year, was on a cruise ship too. It made me think of the last one. I know. God. So I was really worried. Go ahead. I was really worried about that, that book being something that I didn't, I don't normally enjoy, like, more supernaturally. And so then I spoiled it because I looked up the end to make sure like it wasn't. And then I was like, damn it, no, I would really would have to want to read that. Right. I was so bad. But I was like, oh, I can't. I can't. If it's a paranormal,

I just don't want it. I know. It often, the paranormal twist for me, most of the time ends up feeling like a cop out because it can just like explain away anything. So I'm the same way where like I don't necessarily want that to be where a book is heading. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that some people do a, some people do a really good job. Simone St. James is a good job. I think Christina Henry.

I don't know if you read anything from her. Hers is pretty good in that way. I actually read Christina Henry's Near the Bone and Jennifer McMahon's winter people, like, back to back just happened to. And they're both, like, isolated cabins, small family. And then there's crazy paranormal stuff happening around them. And they were both, like, really, really good. But that's about, yeah, that's about the extent.

I got to get my charger one second. Oh, you're good. Okay. So, but yeah, the cruise ships just seeing those like so much more lately, which I think is cool. Yeah. Did you get into that like 90? What was that how like a really super long cruise that people were on in real life? I like never got totally invested but it was very intriguing to me that there was like all this drama happening on some cruise ship where people were together for like six months at a time maybe I can't remember they're still on it aren't they isn't like it's an

around the world situation? Yeah. I there's my issues with that. Yeah. Okay. Let's Let's talk publishing Goss. Yeah. Publishing tea. Um, okay. So I can't get over that Atria paid an influencer, paid for like a portion of him to go on this thing, not a book talk influencer in any way. And yeah, so he was like, oh, is anyone who want to sponsor me?

So they did. They sponsored him for Will Dean's book, which cool, like whatever. This is not the Oscars thing. And he was supposed to like talk about it more and all these things. and he like barely did a book club read together. And they like, I just feel like, wow, why not pick somebody that is already in the book community that has a big, you know, reach? Yes. Like, what the heck?

And so they paid for him, partially for him to go on this cruise. I think it's like nine weeks or something. I don't know. It could be wrong. Right. Yeah. That is a weird choice. That's really weird.

Isn't that such a weird choice? Yeah. So because I mean, no. I mean, you could do a, I'm not really sure who's on big book talk. I don't really spend very much time on there. But I do know, like, that Kiera Lewis, like, she's reading Harry Potter right now. So seeing how, like, that would be somebody that would make a total sense to like, okay, we'll pay you to talk about this book or you go on your thing.

Like, cool. Right. I don't know. It was weird. Hmm. That is really weird. What about other tropes? Do you have, I think we kind of talked about it.

We both have lots of favorite tropes. But what are some of yours? Um, I did write some down. Um, let's see. I love a good female serial killer. Like, yes, that is one I want to read all the time. I also, um, how to kill men and get away with it by Katie Brent. Mm-hmm.

I don't know if you've read that yet. It is really good. It's really good. Yeah. And it's like, it's kind of humorous, but it's really dark humor. Um, and I just like, I love being, I love a female serial killer. Um, well they never learn is my favorite like one of my absolute favorite books

ever yeah totally it's amazing it's amazing um let's see I also like oh I think it's fun anything that's author driven that like the main character is an author or somewhere in the publishing industry which is fun but then I always think about like people who are nowhere near that they're just like reading I wonder if that like it's to be a tired trope for them I'm like okay yeah another author write about an author you know Not for me. I definitely like that one too. Not for me either. Yeah.

Let's see. And I think police procedurals are really kind of out of fashion right now, but I really like a lot of them. I think I was telling you, like, for me, Chris Carter's Robert Hunter series, Robert Hunter, I think this is a series. It's super dark, but it's really good. Sam Holland has a new series, has a series out of police procedural, Nadie Matheson's series is those are all they remind me of the books that I read when I was like late high school early college um like Tammy hoge Patricia Cornwell you know that kind of like those kind of books they remind me of that a lot and I really enjoy it so yeah yeah I am one I'm really

excited when you said police procedural Alex Finley I just got his his new one on that galley and he does like such a good job of like including the police in he because he always has multiple or like a kind of large cast of POVs and I love how he like has the police in it but like also still has the characters that are like involved in whatever is happening so I'm super excited to read that one yeah I've heard good things I've heard a lot of people are like oh my god he's back like we're so good because whatever I've heard a lot of people didn't like the last one I didn't read the last one. Very different. Yeah. Yeah. It's not quite the same as his other words. He was, I interviewed him about, which one was it that I ended up interviewing him about? Why can't I remember it now? I don't know. But he, I will always remember that he says that he like writes a decent amount of his books, like voice to text while he's walking. I'm like that is like, I love the idea of it, but I don't think, I'm not against it. I just don't think that would ever be me. Like, it's just like, I don't know that that's how it would work for me. But. that's cool for him. But trope-wise, as you all probably could have told by the way I was talking about Monkey Man, which this is like the third time I'm bringing that up. But I love revenge as a trope that will just like carry me through just like any, through really anything.

Like if there are snarky revenge vibes through the whole thing, like I'm just so invested. I also, I do really enjoy when books are like, Hollywood adjacent or like fame adjacent as well like I mean that's that is a trope like just like taking place like near the industry like that basically um and kind of and with sci-fi-ish books because I feel like I'm not like a straight sci-fi reader at all like I don't get it's it's got to be like a thriller aspect to it yeah yeah I I I do kind of like when they play with like time or memories like something where like your perception kind of changes a little bit I always love those um but to your point about female

serial killers I also this really still isn't a trope but maybe it is but like you're like snarky female lead who's like a little too independent yes yes sort of fashion or whatever and is just going to get it figured out. Like, I'm a sucker for that as well. Me too. Me too. Because, like, I think about that, um, uh, there was a speech Reese with a spoon gave one time.

And she was talking about females and like being in, in a like situation and in movies, like how they were portrayed and stuff, like not as the strong, this really before strong female characters really came up. Um, but she was like, look, you watch it. You start seeing the movies and the girl will be like, what do we do? And then what woman in real life is like, what, what should we do? No, they're the ones that are taking care of business. And I was like, that is 100% true.

And that is exactly how I feel like if I, I cannot stand. So trope I hate. Yeah. Is a weak female character. I like, I'll just DNF it. I can't do it. I can't do it either. I know what you're talking about.

Every time I see that clip of hers, I watch it because it's just like, because it's also, she also talking about like a female, turns to a male and it's like what do we do she's like when has that ever happened when is that ever happened it doesn't happen it's no it's cool it's no cool how like she you can't really argue with the fact that she's a big reason why we got so many more like female driven shows and movies and stuff like that like it's just it's so cool her whole business setup with like her like book recommendations into her production company. So smart. Oh my gosh.

I mean, I think I want to be Reese or I want her to like me enough to pick a book that I like, can I write with me? But I think everybody does. But that's, I appreciate that about her because she is, she picks only female authors. And I think that's really valuable because it's putting more women in the forefront. And now, unlike way back in the day, there are, like, 85% of readers are women. Like, they're mostly women.

And then a lot of the authors that are out there are now, like, we're being able to say, like, our names instead of paying initials or, like, be more like adrogynous or whatever. Like, I love that. I love that. Yeah. That made me think of another show I love, which is con thrillers. I am a sucker for, like, something related to a con. Because what made me think of that, um, first thigh wins? Was that one of her picks?

That was what was making it. Yeah, it was one of her picks. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I just thought of. I didn't read it though. Oh, I love it. But I'm like really into con thrillers. I've had a couple of people say they're kind of tired of it and that's how they felt

reading that book. So if you feel like you're tired of it, you probably won't like it. But I was like, I'm just tired of the con thriller. But I don't even know that like, I don't think I've even read the ton of con thrillers. So I guess unless you count live Constantine, everything they write, there's some sort of con going on. on there. That's true. That's true. There was one that I just had her on the podcast. What is it

called that she just recommended to me that I'm like definitely going to talk about in case anyone if my good reads could load that would be great. I don't know why my internet is slow. Bluff. It's called bluff and it's about like a magician. who pairs up with like a card counter or a card shark basically. Ooh, love that. And they try to help pull off a $1.5 million magic trick that if they do it correct, I don't even suspect that it happened. I really want to read it because I mentioned to her.

Go ahead. Sorry, go on. No, no, go ahead. This was from my episode with Amy. She's at mom advice. and she recommended this one to me because I was telling her how much I love cons. So this is like my next one that I want to read. Yeah.

I was going to say, I feel like I, I think I was getting like Ocean's 11 vibes from something we were talking about. And then I lost my train of thought. Yeah. So Bluff by who? What's the name? The author. Michael Cardos, K-A-R-D-O-S. And then another one that I read here recently.

that had a con aspect to it that was really good. It's called The Nightside by M.M. DeLuca. And I actually had her on the podcast as well, if you want to go listen to that. But it's basically the main character, Ruby, left her really small hometown as soon as she could when she was 18 or 19, and basically moved to England.

And it was because her mom had been running cons, her whole childhood. So that was like what she witnessed and her mom made her like be a part of it. And so she just like got away as soon as she could. But she gets called back because her mom is missing. And they are presuming she's dead because they find clothing or something by a lake. So they assume that she's dead. So that's why she's called back to town.

But she's kind of like, is my mom dead? or is she doing a con again? So like, told back and forth, you're like learning what her childhood was like as she's like sifting through everything in the present and trying to figure out like if her mom's still there or not. And he was really good.

Like it felt character and plot driven. That's cool. What's the name again? Sorry. The book name or the author? Yeah, either one. Oh, it's got, so this is called The Nightside and it's by M.M. DeLuca.

okay okay very fun i love this i have not like seen most of these so this would be very excited she hers was really good she reached out to me like said like i love listening to your podcast and she was like i think you'd be like intrigued by this like my newest book and i hadn't heard of it either and i looked it up and i was like well you had me a con thriller you're like and i'm in um there is a book. I think that this is the one I'm thinking of, but there's one, pretty things by Janelle Brown. Oh my gosh. That's one of my all-time favorites. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's so good, right? So good. So good. And then look closer. I'm sure

you've read from David Ellis. Oh my God. It's also one of my all-time. Those two. I will never, I will never forget the experience of reading both of those. Like, look closer is one that like, I I still like, I still, I don't know why I said it that way, but like, I aspire to write something as complicated as that. Oh, my God. Yes. It's so fun to read because it was like, it's like close to 500 pages too. And it just felt like I flew through it.

Mm-hmm. No, I agree. And it's so complicated and twisted, like layer, layer of, of the twists and stuff. I will say, though, I think I've ruined my reading experience of it because I literally was like, okay look closer and everyone's like oh it's so amazing like you're gonna love it and like okay great so like I'm looking at the cover and I'm like I wonder if there's any clues in the cover so then I'm like listening to it and I'm like trying to like figure out what the thing so I was more focused on what's the secret like I'm trying to see what the what the secret is before actually enjoying the way and I was nowhere near right like absolutely not so I hate I was like no I ruined my reading experience I should have just enjoyed it Except like Lisa Jules, like none of this is true.

And then like the whole time you're like, you're like, okay, so I can't trust anything that's happening. None of this is true. None of this is true. Exactly. So I'm like, those titles can be a little bit like, it's either too spoilery or like changes what I think it's going to be. Yeah. I was like, Shari Lipinas is it everyone here is lying, I think is what that was called to. So again, you're just like assuming like none of what you're reading is true.

It is crazy how much the title. I mean, it makes sense that the title can impact stuff, but sometimes it does. It gets you in your head. Yeah. Well, like Alice Feeney, sometimes I lie. Yep. That's pretty straightforward. It is.

It really is. Well, and then like listen for the lie, speaking of podcast books. Like, say the thing, you're like, okay, where's the lie? Which I guess, like, in some cases we're doing that anyway with thrillers. like we might do that regardless of the title. Yeah, that's true. I think we are. I think it's just a little bit of a different because you're looking for not as a clue.

You're looking for a lie. And then it's just like a little bit of a different thing. Yeah. But yeah, I was just thinking too. Oh, this kind of reminded me of something. So a trope I'm seeing a lot that's coming up lately to is did they get it wrong 20 years ago when they testified in high school? and now someone's on death row or like now there's a question of it and those kind of things. So I've seen that quite a bit lately.

I think Lucy Gocher is one I just found because of Instagram and she like doesn't have as many. This is like an unsung book, I think. It's called Small Secrets. And it is about it's a true crime podcast. and then they are talking about an unsolved murder in their hometown. And then it's like years later that the podcast has blown up and they actually ended up ruining somebody's life kind of related to that hometown case. And so then they're trying to go back and solve it and stuff.

So they're like that is a very interesting. Like it's it's so good, but it's the whole, I'm going to go back and see it. I'm going to go back and see it. And I read another one recently that did it, but I didn't like it as much. Oh. Yeah. That still happens sometimes.

Sometimes it leans too heavily on just like, oh, it's just intriguing because of the trope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, have you read much freedom like that? No. That's one I haven't really gotten into. Yeah, I haven't either.

So I read this one, the inmate. And it was like a similar kind of thing where like she testified and got this guy in jail and whatever. Yeah. coming back and and questioning it all again. And it was, it's okay. But I think I can see why people would like it, but I was also frustrated with the main character most of the time. Again, like, weaker female character.

And I was like, I can't have a big character. I know. I know. I feel bad sometimes, I guess, because it's like maybe some people have reasons for being a weaker female character. Yeah. I mean, it's just not my vibe. True.

No. I know. So, like, Karen Slaughter is one of the way. my absolute most favorite authors ever. Yeah. Love her. But pieces of her, I couldn't. I like, I've enraged DNF that.

And I like got rid of the book and everything. Like I was just like, I don't even want this in my house. So mad. Because for other like cop town, you got strong female characters. In Sarah Linton series, you do like any of her standalones. And I was like, what the fuck is this? Yes. I think, I think, because I heard someone else say that about that one.

So I never even ended up like. like starting it because I've heard enough people kind of say like it's different than her other ones I didn't like love the character and I was like oh maybe I won't pick it up this time yeah so then what I so she has a second one in that after the Netflix show came out and apparently it's supposed to be better but I still cannot bring myself to read the the new one yeah it's got it like a really pretty cover yeah I kind of I vaguely remember it I can't remember. Oh, girl forgotten is the second one.

But yeah. And so I just am like, ooh, I don't know if I can do it. But I really won't. I mean, I want to read everything she writes, but. I know. Yeah. Do you have any books you're like super excited for kind of like looking ahead to summer? Oh my gosh.

Yes. Yes. It's a very open and more. That is a very open. Hold on a second. I mean, so right now, I know I'm going to get Jimmy Lynn Hendrix's new one. Yeah. I love to.

Why? Yeah. Oh, this coming out later this year, it's from Emma C. Wells from Poison Pen. It's called This Girl's a Killer. And it's coming out in September. And this is Cordelia Black. she loves exactly three things. Her chosen family, her hairdresser, and killing bad men.

Yep. So right up for that. The cover. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, right. That cover is amazing. That cover is so cool. And then, let's see.

Look in the Mirror by Catherine Stedman. I really like, I've just continually. That one sounds very intriguing. What Will Burn Last by Heather Chavez. I did read that, and that was really, good. Yeah. It's coming in the summer. I'm excited for that one too. And then, I mean, like Riley Saeger's new one, of course. Yeah. Get that every year. I'm trying to look in it. Oh, um, the Midnight Feast by Lucy Foley. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I haven't, yeah. I haven't, yeah.

So those are like some of the ones that I'm like most excited about. What about you? Yeah. So I am, so you will never be me. That was the Jesse Cusitante one I was talking about earlier with kind of influencer vibes. So that one comes out in August. I'm definitely excited about that one. And we just talked about David Ellis with a closer. I got his, the best lies is his next one. And it comes out in July.

Very excited for that one. I'm super excited for Lady Killer by Catherine Wood. It has that like Hollywood trope as well. where it's kind of like the girls on the cover in a pool yes yeah the cover is very cool and it's like someone an old childhood friend of like a really really famous actress but like there's a reason they haven't been tight for a while but like the famous woman invites the friend to come to her I think Grecian like get away and so she the friend is the character that's like our main character flies out to go see her and she's not there when she shows up but she there's like this

mostly written film manuscript that seems to be kind of semi-autobiographical so then as like the main character is like going through this film script she's like putting together what happened to her friend basically and why she's missing and I'm just like I'm such a Hollywood trope whatever like sucker like you like telling me like it has to do with like Hollywood and a movie script. I'm like, okay. But like it's also like a lot of people are talking about loving it. That reminds me. I'm going to so just so I don't forget I'm writing them down. One, have you read Everybody Knows by Jordan Harper? No, Halleastern keeps telling me to read it. Yeah. So yeah, that one is really good. And then Wendy, I'm sure you've already read it,

but like the Wendy Hurd book, you can trust me. L.A., Hollywood, but then it's cons. And I was like, mean that's like you ought to be your go. So good. That was one of my favorites of last year. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then Eliza Jane Brazier, who I'm like a big fan of hers, she has, it had to be you is coming out in July. And it is like, I think it's like Mr. and Mrs. Smith vibes. So like the short sentence is like two contract killers, each with a hit out on each other, most fight their growing attraction as they face off and an epic game of lust and murder across

Western Europe. And I love the writing. Yeah, that sounds fun. So I'm so excited for that one. There's just so much coming out. Speaking of spy thrillers, have you read the, um, hold on, it is called, it's by I.S. Berry. It's called the peacock and the sparrow.

So this is a like, real legit spy thriller she used to be an active infield spy um so that's pretty cool and also i love that it's a female so like it's super intimate um and i've heard like it won a ton of awards last year but apparently it's the closest to what's really what it's like to be a spy and um and super amazing and good so this is crazy i have it on like i just pulled it up on good reads and apparently i already have it in my want to read so it's something Wait, I thought I was going to read it. Yeah.

You're like, oh, yeah. How many books are on your want-to-read list? Oh, that's a great question. Let me. For some reason, good reads is being, I have 12. I know. I just. Okay.

Yeah. There's so many books. I'm just never going to read all the books I want to read. I know. This sucks. Why can't I just read like 24 hours a day? That would be so nice. I know.

I know. I really just want, I don't want to work. Exactly. No, not interested in that at all. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah.

One day, maybe we will figure out how to monetize our reading and writing efforts. And we don't have to do anything else during the day. Yeah. I mean, that will be great one day. One day will be, you know, we'll be authors. Yeah. Right. Until then, it's just, well, get through it.

Yeah. I don't keep doing stuff. Yeah. I feel like we talked about at the beginning how everyone's TBRs grow by the end of our episodes. I feel like we just grew everyone's TBRs again. Yes, including our own, which is this happens to me every time I talk to somebody. Like, oh, that's a new book I need to add. Yes.

Yeah. Going to conferences. So I would just say, like, for listeners out there, there are tons of different conferences and there are like mystery thriller conferences that can be around in your area. So one, like take a look at those, but they are, you get a ton of free books there. And usually I walk away with like, my mind is just overwhelmed with the amount of books that are like, I want to read now and I've heard about and all of these things. This is just, it's.

I bet. And you got a good one out of this conference. You got a really good one. Oh, I did. Oh, I did. Well, that's where. Yeah. So that book, the mentor by Lee Matthew Goldberg, he was talking about it on a panel.

The panel was about literary chills. And the other folks that were up there was like, oh, your books don't really sound that. And he was like, well, you know, there's cannibalism. And I was like, I'm in. Yes. Yes. So, yeah, that is literary chills. And so I was really, I mean, I love that just because it feels like you can just constantly get new book ideas to find.

There's a reader for every book. I just genuinely believe that. There is a reader for every book. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because if someone wrote it, it's going to connect with someone as well. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

So really quick, though, I was listening to your last episode, and so you are just like, Kindle. Yeah? Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is all, the bookcase behind me was all for the aesthetic. But yes, I don't know what I would do

if I needed to switch over to reading physical books because a couple of things. One, I, most of my reading is like really even on my phone because the Kindle app is like, you can just get anywhere, iPad, iPhone, whatever. So it's just like I can read it anywhere and I am the person who like, if I'm getting my oil changed, I'm just sitting there reading on my phone. So that's mostly it. but the other thing which like kind of makes me feel old but it's what it is i have my text like pretty big on my candle yes oh my god so then when i look at like every now and then i'll like open a physical

book since i like have some you're like tiny text i'm like what if i was trying to read tiny text like at night no i totally i totally agree it was funny it was Danny it was like it's so recently and I was looking at my phone and then I was like doing this thing and I was like I think I'm officially old I can't see things anymore I can't read some text that totally I do I have mine pretty large as well oh yeah I mean I mostly honestly mostly I do audio books right now but I do have lots of books on Kendall and then tons and tons of physical books so my new thing that I'm trying to do is I'm trying to read the book first and then buy it if I love it. Oh, yeah.

Unless it's like, unless it's an author, then I'm like 100% I'm going to pre-order because I love them. I love their writing, whatever. But something that's new that I'm not sure about. I'm trying to read it first and then buy so that I don't end up with what I have now, which is like hundreds of books on my shelves that I haven't read. I'm not, I don't know when if I'll ever read it. And I'm still like a huge waste of money. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just, the other thing I do is I have like the black with white text too. So it's just like, I like to live in the dark is like the other not necessarily strange thing about me. I know a lot of other people are like that. But it's like blackout curtains are my vibe. And like that's just where I'm out with this. But so I even have it on like dark mode. And I just like I feel like I can read so easily with like dark mode and big. text like I can just fly through it but it also works well for me because of net galley so it's like I'm kind of an easier reader to like send stuff to because I'm like you can just send me the digital version and I'm like perfectly happy with it I genuinely don't know the last time I mean I was reading in college on my Kindle I don't I don't know the last time like the last time I read a physical book I was probably a teenager basically really Wow. Well, yeah. I mean, if you're like used to that, then that's going to be your go-to. But you're right because, I mean, in publishing in general, as kind of a broad statement, they're moving away from physical arcs because of the cost that it is for shipping those out and printing and everything. So it's much easier to do e-arcs. And then then, but that's, you could just, that's how you just get in trouble. That's how I get in trouble on that galley is. I'm like, oh, yeah, I was like, this, this, this. And then I'm like, okay, I've got 17 books here. I committed to reading. What am I doing?

I know. I have 20 right now in my list, but like it goes through September. So it's like, it's not overwhelming to me right now. Like it's like I have a lot that come out in July basically. But like my next most recent one or whatever is, ooh, Charlie Donnelly, who I have been such a fan of for so long. Yeah, that one comes out May 21st. So it's like I'm still like ahead on my shelf. But like I do have 20 books. on my shell in my neckdally shelf. It's so easy to do because you're like, oh, that one, I want that one. I want that one. And I just have to remind myself, this is not, this is not window shopping like on Amazon where I'm like, add to cart, add to cart, and then I'm not going to purchase anything.

Like, you said you're going to make this. Yeah, I can't really stress now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's the bookish life. We just can't help it. No.

No. Yeah. I can't go into a bookstore. I will buy books every time. I usually when I go in, I'll tell somebody I have a rule like, okay, I'm only allowed to because I need somebody to tell me, you have to put some back. Yeah, totally. I know. I know. I think if I did it, I feel like because I read digital, it's kind of like just when I'm done finished or done finished when I finish a book. That's typically then when I'm like,

okay, what am I going to read next? So I think it kind of helps my spending habits a little bit because I don't typically buy ahead. I think it's like easier to buy ahead with physical books or like you go into a bookstore and you're like, oh, I like this one and I like this one. And mine's generally just kind of like, okay, I finished a book now.

I'm going to start another one. Like which one am I going to buy? So except the, the the Kindle two time two X points days sometimes they'll get me with that though because I'm like I'm saving money by buying them on this day. Yeah, might as well. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I kind of do a similar thing that's usually with audiobooks on Libby.

Like I just go to like what's available now and I'll scroll through and I'm either I either try to find a book I own that I haven't read yet or when I'm like really anticipating. Yeah. But it's kind of the same thing where I'm just like continuing going through this. versus like going to my shelves so i don't know she's got to stop buying so many it's so easy to do though it is do you plan out do you try to like force your tBR are you like this is what i'm reading this week or this month i mean either i can't i tried but i can't and then it gets me where then i'm like mad i'm reading the book and that's not that's not good i'm just like i don't want to

read this but i said it was gonna so that's my other big problem with net galley I'm such a mood reader that I went That's what I was going to say As long as I stay ahead on NetGalley Then I can kind of like I have three books Coming up next That are like May 21st May 21st May 21st May 28th So it's like then I kind of look at my like

Three to five that are coming up next And then I'll be like okay what mood am I in of these books But yeah sometimes when you're like Oh no I literally have to read this one because I have have to review it. That's like why I try to still just stay like a month or two ahead of it basically. So I still kind of can choose because I'm the same way. I didn't used to think I was a mood reader because I was like I only read one genre. And then I was like, oh, but it's like the subtypes of the genre. I'm definitely the subtypes. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Do you want really dark? Do you

want funny? Do you want like police procedural? Do you want heist? Do you want serial killer? Like there's all of the different things. And not. every mood requires like works. Yeah. Yeah. So like domestic suspense for me is one that's like pretty hit or miss. Like I'm not a huge. Live Constantine aside, but not a huge of that in that realm.

But sometimes like that's what I want is I want like those rich bitches like to get what they deserve. Yeah. But it's rarer than other things. So yeah. Moot readers. It is. I don't know. I don't know how people do it.

I don't know how people like get like this is my. TBR and these are the books I'm going to read. Yeah, I've never, never been able to. Yeah. I love watching people's TBR videos, like on YouTube or, like, you know, on Instagram. I love watching them, but, yeah, he'll never stick with one. Same, same. It's just not even worth it.

Yeah, I know. Thank you so much for talking with me. I know we just gave everybody so many more books. But if they want to add even more, they need to go listen to your podcast as well, Thrillers by the Book Club. So I'm going to link that in the show notes as well. And I'm sure you'll be back again here soon. Oh, I would love to come back anytime, anytime. And then we're going to have you come and join us in our next season, which is going to be fantastic.

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Yeah. All the books, all thrillers, like it just literally just want to do this all day. I know. Me too.