Bookwild - Riley Sager Had Lizzie Borden on the Brain: The Only One Left

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

This week, Riley Sager joins us to talk about his new thriller, out June 20, The Only One Left.Follow us on Instagram:Gare @gareindeedreadsKate @thegirlwiththecookonthecouchRiley Sager @riley.sager Books We Talked AboutThe Only One LeftThe Last Word Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hey guys, welcome to the Killing the Tea podcast. This is Gare and Kate. And we are going to be discussing all things, chills, thrills, and kills. Kate and I are going to be talking about our favorite books, TV shows and movies that are in the thriller or crime fiction genre, as well as some reading habits and other items related to how we met on Bookstagram that will fit in with this podcast. So, Thank you so much for joining us and we hope that you have fun and get totally terrified. Okay. Welcome back to another episode, guys. Today, we are very excited because we have Riley Sager on to talk about his newest book, The Only One Left. So thank you for joining us today, Riley. Hello. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Do you have any burning questions right off the back, Gare? I mean, I have thousands, but I know. I guess we didn't think who was going to talk first. This one elicits lots of questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is the kind of podcast where we just kind of wing it. So my, I guess my first initial question is with the only one left, it's so different from anything that you've done before.

So I might, I guess my first question is kind of like what inspired you with this story and what inspired you to kind of go in this direction with this book. Yeah, it was, it was for some reason I had Lizzie Borden on the brain. And I really truly do not know why. Like all my other books, I can remember the moment when I thought of it. Like, oh, I'm watching Halloween on Halloween and oh, final girls like lightbulb. moments. I just, I don't remember what set me thinking about Lizzie Borden. And I wasn't even thinking necessarily about Lizzie Borden, but what older Lizzie Borden would be like if she needed someone to take care of her. And what's that person's deal? Like, why is she taking care of

Lizzie Borden? What led her to this point? And is she afraid? Does she, is she like, hey, Lizzie, did you really do it? Did you not do it? So all that was in my head when I thought of the idea of this home health aid. Because Kit isn't necessarily a nurse. She's not quite a nurse. She's the next lowest level to a nurse. Going in and having to take care of a woman named Lenora Hope, who everyone thinks

murdered her entire family when she was 17. And it is now decades later, Lenora is very old and very poor health. She can't talk. She can't walk. She can just really move her left hand. And she uses that left hand to type a tantalizing message to Kit because she uses a typewriter to communicate.

As she tells Kit, I want to tell you everything. And once I got that idea, I'm like, ooh, this is good. Like the nurse is suspicious. Is she scared? Does she? She wants to know the truth. And Lenora, just from her bearing nature and her condition, can't say a word. So she wants to help this woman tell her story.

And then I thought that that would be perfect for a Gothic novel. Like there are just all these Gothic tropes that we know and love of usually it's some kind of big mansion or a state or castle or something. there's usually a young woman who's entering this world. There's a sinister housekeeper. There's a sexy groundskeeper. There's like wind-swept cliffs and all like, and maybe a ghost. We don't know.

And so I just wanted to like toss in all of these fun Gothic tropes and mess around with them. Right. Right. Yeah. It was, I loved it. I love having all of it together that way. Yeah.

I was so, I mean, obviously I'm. always impressed with how you pace your novels and like these little nuggets of information like the timing at which you have reveals before you know that cinematic Sager ending that will say but like I was just so impressed with this one with all of those different reveals and you know me like I always love to say to like my audience like you know when it comes to Riley Sager, you have a cinematic expectation that, like, this is going to play like a movie in your head more than most people that you read. And with this one, I was just like,

oh my God, it's so good. It was kind of giving me like a little bit of the skeleton key with Kate Hudson. I don't know if you guys have ever seen that. But that's what I was like kind of feeling when I was like reading it. But it has that that Sager touch that you will, you know, with like there's things that are just, you know, a little bit deeper and darker and twistier in it. So I was just so impressed with how well you paste all of these these little nuggets of information to kind of either provide people with the information that they needed or to be like, I'm going to mess with your head right now and tell you like, here's this, A, B, and C, it's either going to come back to haunt you in the of the story or I'm swaying you in a certain direction to kind of like distract you from the wallup

of an ending that we have with this one. Yes. It's really fun to to figure out how it's all going to fit together. And in this case, it was especially fun to have this character of Lenora, who on the surface, it's so helpless. Like she's, it's a little. It's a little. literally an old woman in a wheelchair not speaking. And yet she has so much going on just beneath the surface. So many secrets. So many stories. And it was fun to make Kit kind of the surrogate for the reader.

Right. She's learning the story as Lenora's typing it. And she's off doing her own little investigating. And you don't know if Lenora is reliable or not. Like Kit, even as like she's helping Lenore type out like the story she doesn't know is Lenore telling me

the truth here and that was a very fun thing to play with like who is telling the truth in the situation is anyone yeah yeah that's kind of like also a bit of a hallmark of your books is like that you can't trust anyone

and we were both reading it at a similar time so we were both like okay we think it's going to be this we think it's going to be this and then it I got to the ending, Gare beat me. And I was like, oh my God. And he was like, are you done, done? And I was like, no. And he's like,

okay, well, I can't tell you anything. I can't talk about it. Then I like read like 10 more pages. I was like, oh my gosh, this just changed too. But it was making me wonder because you have so many like either plot twists or plot reveals in all of your books. Do you plot your books or do you just pants it? I plot them. but there are surprises along the way like I did not plan on this book being as twisty as ultimately

became like I knew from the beginning there were two twists that like you know one very major one that I knew from the very beginning like ah this is the deal this is what's going on here because I need to know I need to know how to like build to that and lead up to that and also sort of distract from that like with the red herrings such But once I got to that twist, I saw ways in which I could also keep the twist going. And it wasn't necessarily something I was planning just when I was writing it. The moment struck where I'm like, oh, this is, yes, this is actually, this is perfect. And I think it was like my brain subconsciously like doing the twist, like leading, building up to them without even me realizing it.

to like get to the realization, like, oh yeah, I've been leading to this, haven't I? I didn't think of that. Yeah, you like surprise yourself. Yes, I did in this part. Yeah, yeah. Well, I have to say I was, the thing that I was pleasantly surprised with when I was reading this one is, um, the way that you combined your timelines, but also in a way where you're getting Lenora's story. through almost a book within a book. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that wasn't planned. I know it wasn't planned because when I talked to you about Home Before Dark,

you were like, I'm never doing book within a book ever again. And so I was reading this one and I was like, he just couldn't help himself. He just had to like, a liar. I'm like, he tricked me. He tricked me again. No, I knew Lenore. I wanted Lenora to be almost like this blank slate character. where everyone brings their own deal and their own hangups to Lenora.

Like Kit looks at her and it's just like, I think she killed her family, but I still have to keep her alive because that's my job. And so, like, Lenora, I wanted her to be like this big mystery. But as I learned very early on when I started writing it is, when you have a book and one of the main characters can't speak, or talk or move or do anything, it's very difficult to make her compelling. And so immediately I knew I need to make her more compelling.

I need to give more of her personality. How do I do this because she can't do anything? And that's when I got the idea, oh, I think she can type. And so that's where we get to see her thoughts and get to see her sense of humor because she's a surprisingly funny person. Yet she's also very intimidating and she's very suspicious and sometimes ornery. And that was fun to do.

So that was my way of like, okay, here's Lenora on these typewritten chapters where it just accidentally became a book within a book, kind of. Even though I vowed to never do that again. Yeah, yeah, tricked me. That was one track. you were saying how kit's kind of a blank slate it was making me think when I was reading it I was kind of thinking about like you could make the debate that lenora is kind of the main character in some ways was that did you approach it that way at all like with keeping kit kind of blank like the focus is more on lenora yeah I wanted them to be

kind of equals but I knew that lenora just by name of her reputation and her condition would be very interesting to people. And when I was, when I was writing it like, Gary, you do a lot of casting on Instagram. And for Lenora, I just was, sometimes I'm very, very, I get imposter syndrome a lot. But then other times I get really full of myself. And so there were parts when I was writing this bookroom, like, this is going to be the thing that wins Glenn Close and Oscar. Like, that's what I was going through my head when I was writing Lenora. Because I just pictured Glenn Close, like, with long gray hair and a gray nightgown, just sitting in this wheelchair looking mysterious.

Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. I can see that. I mean, we could do an exclusive if you want before it comes out. But I know, I like to wait. You like to wait? Your picks are amazing.

Okay. Well, I definitely had to like, I love to have like a little like Easter egg or something with like casting Riley Sager because I mean, it's just so much fun. So I always like to have like horror icons in it or like a cameo by Taylor Swift. But the character that I wanted a cameo for Taylor Swift would have been done. devastating. So I'll tell you that because their fate was a little traumatizing. But yeah, I definitely picked like a major horror icon for Lenora that could be like somebody that like, oh my God, everyone loves her, but like she also could play like very sinister. I think I know exactly who I have a guess. Is she, I don't, can we, is she a recent Oscar winner?

No. Oh, okay, so it's not Jamie Lee Curtis. That's what I thought. Oh, okay. Okay, then good. I'll be surprised. No, it's not Jamie Lee. You know, actually, that's really funny, too, because I thought Jamie Lee Curtis for one character, but I don't want to spoil that either and say that it is or isn't her. But, but yeah, no, there's definitely a horror icon for Lenora. again, I have two casts because I have two timelines to cast. Oh, so we get to see a 1983 cast.

Yeah. Oh, that's so exciting. You get both of them. So at first he was like, maybe I'll just do one. And then he texted me and he was like, no, I'm going to have to do both. No, I got to do both. Because like as the, like you said, like it's like very centered around Lenora. But the thing that I really enjoyed with this one is in that,

in Lenora's story, there were so many characters that were so important, but they weren't necessarily on the page very long. You know what I mean? Like, they play, like, very important roles, but it's, like, within mention and stuff. So that's, like, another way that you kind of play with your readers' minds and stuff, because it's a Riley Sager book. Like, people are going to either show up to do something horrible or they're going to show up to have something horrible done to them so it's like you're either the killer or you're going to be killed like there's not a lot of people left standing yeah and this this was a very i just i loved messing around with expectations and with cliches and just trying to make this situation which i mean it's not realistic at all

None of my books take place in a normal world. Like it's always like a heightened almost soap opera reality where my books take place. And I try to ground the craziness with compelling characters who feel real. Because I think readers are okay with the insanity of the plots if there's a character sort of grounding it at all. Yeah, I agree with that 100%. Yeah, there is definitely one thing that has boggled my mind for years and years that I've harassed you about. That is very realistic where sometimes people disappear and you just never find out what happens to them. So again, there's a lot of things that can, you know, play with your mind with this one.

And I think my favorite thing, too, was, like you said, Lenora's like, she's kind of funny. And as you get to know her and you made me laugh with her character just by some of her her actions because like you said, like she does not speak. It's her hand that's moving and just the way that you wrote her was like funny and sarcastic. And you really play. She's really stubborn. Oh my God. Yeah.

She's so stubborn. So stubborn. I was like the character that I relate to the most. I was going to say that's my goal. when I'm in my 80s. Yeah, to be that stubborn and just like so headstrong. Even if I can't speak. Like I will show you humanisms how stubborn I am.

Yeah. And I thought of her as someone. I mean, she's been in that room for a very, very long time. And I just thought of her as someone who's learned to amuse herself because no one else is there to do it for her. And so she does have this sly sense of humor.

And I do love that she, she toys with Kit a little bit. Like she could just very easily type out in like two sentences or a paragraph. This is what happened. But no. She insists on I'm going to set the scene. I need to give you like build up and I need to give you foreshadowing. And it makes Kit sort of like the surrogate of the reader.

And Lenora is kind of like the surrogate author. Yeah. Yeah. was making me think I watched poker face with Natasha Leon here recently on Peacock. I love that show. So good. I loved it so much. But you know, like the structure is a little different. Like you see what happens at the beginning. And then you're like surprised over and over again. And when I was Googling about it, they call it like a why done it versus a who done it. And I feel like what you were just saying is kind of similar to that because it's really about why

the family was killed. You kind of feel somewhat certain about who did it. And I feel. it. Yeah. It was very and that was part of the tricky part of writing the book was okay,

this family's dead. What really happened here? And I had to figure it out and make it in a way that's surprising but also somewhat logical.

And that's a very tricky balance when you're talking about you know, potential teenage psycho killers. Yeah, someone who's capable of murdering their family. And mansions that are like tilting toward the ocean and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. So there was a very tricky balance making it all work.

And I didn't really know until I got to the end and when, yeah, this one, this one works. Like there's always a moment most books from like, I don't know. This is going to be the one where people think I suck. And not with this one. No, sir. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That ending was so, so wild. Like, wild. And like, I don't know. It felt like in a very positive way, it felt like the ending just kept going and going. And like you were just like, oh, my God. Like, what else does he have? Because you get to these like twists and things. And the thing that I like about your endings is.

you do play with your readers like intuition in the sense of like you give one reveal and then they are just like kind of trying to put the pieces together in their head and then there's like something else and you're like

okay so my theory was wrong and like I can't now I like officially cannot put this down until it's done that's why I have to have a Sega Saturday like I can't read your books during the week where I have to like put them down because I'll just be lying in bed at driving myself nuts trying to figure everything out yeah that's the best worst feeling like i love it

when an author does it to me too where i'm just like it is two in the morning and i'm so tired and i'm going to regret this tomorrow but i need to get to the end of this book yes yeah i both love it and i also hate it because boy do i pay the price in the morning oh yeah you notice yeah i think you're invincible at two in the morning. I thought I was. And then 6 a.m. comes around. Yeah. Comes in fast and yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're trying to put the pieces together with this one, but then you're also like wondering like, is the foundation of my house a little concerning? Did my house just move? Yeah. Did my house move?

I'm glad I don't live by the way. It's like the one time. Like I've always said that like one day I'm going to live by the ocean. I'm going to live by like some form of like water because I just think it's so calming. And then I read this and I was like, nah, maybe maybe I'm good where I am. You're like, no, the water is not calming at all. The water is scary. No, the water will gobble me all.

Like, this is scary. But yeah, I felt like I really painted a picture of this Gothic mansion in my head when I was reading it. did you like did you just build this whole place in your mind or were you Googling like like did you like go on Pinterest or like Google and just be like what does a creepy gothic mansion look like that's like to like creep everybody out because like it almost reminded me of like a very old version of the big mansion in the end of screen three because I was like there's all these nooks and crannies like somebody's going to be hidden there's going to be a body or a ghost or like something in there like that's just going to scare the hell out of me.

I did use a real, because I, you're right, I googled Guilded Age mansions and just saw what came up. I'm like, okay, I need some kind of reference so I can build this house from my imagination. And I found one that actually, I just thought it looked the coolest and the most sinister. It turns out it's in my county. Whoa. That's crazy. And it has a reputation as a murder mansion.

Oh my God. Yes. And I looked into it and I was so bummed because it, no, it's not a murder mansion. But the rumor is that like it, the rumors that it used to be like an orphanage run by nuns. And that like one day the nuns like went insane and tried to kill. kill all the orphans that were there and that there was some massacre. And I was just like, holy crap, this is, this should be the plot of my book. Yeah, I was going to say, and next summer coming from running.

Next summer, killer nuns in another mansion. I was, I was so fascinated and I was so disappointed in such a weird way, like, oh, there was no massacre of orphans. Like all the orphans lived? What the hell? I don't even think it was, I don't even. I think it was actually an orphanage. I don't know how it got like this rumor, but like all the kids in the area are just like,

that's just the mansion where like the nuns went crazy and murdered the kids. But it still was a beautiful mansion. And so I used that as a guideline for sort of describing it because it seemed fitting. Yeah. One murder mansion to describe another. That is so cool. That is so cool. That is so cool.

That could inspire you too because I kind of feel like I've always had this like idea. I mean, not to boss you around, but like I've always had this like idea in a sense of you writing something that involves urban legends because you use your characters so uniquely to trick your readers. And I always like think of like a multiple perspective kind of thing in the sense of like one character saying an urban legend this way and another one saying it this way and this way. And you know, like having these different perspectives in an urban legend. and like not knowing what the truth is because if anybody can write like I'm still terrified of the house and home before dark. Yeah. I can still picture it in my head.

I read that when my husband was traveling and every time I heard a noise, I was like, I'm just going to have to finish this in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what the funny thing is too is it still scares me because I don't know if it was your arcs or I think it was the finished copies of them glowed in the dark. Finish copies. Yeah.

The first edition of the hard. glowed in the dark. Yes. So like I will go to bed at night and like roll over and sometimes face my bookshelves and like see something glowing at like an alarming height. And I'm like, oh my God, like it's finally happening. I'm going to be on like paranormal hunters or something. But it's just, it's the spine that's been getting me for years. It's just home before dark. Damn it. I'm like it's freaking Riley Sager scaring me again and I'm not even reading one of his books right now. no that's a good idea like I have like

because I I'm contracted for at least two more books with my publisher and those plots are already set and you know but after that so who knows there might be some like urban legends or murder nuns in the

future we'll see you never know we just might hold you do it yeah because I know one day I am going to write like I mean I think the term now that they use is dark academia I call it I call them prep school novels like the secret history to me is like it's a prep school novel

or even though it's college but there's there will be in my future some prep school boarding school college murders stuff you kind of hinted at it too with with survived the night you gave that little yeah a little bit yeah that's true Yeah, because that's what I've like, I'm always just like, you know, like, I think you would kill dark academia. Like, that would be so good. Yeah.

And like, there's all these, like, ideas, but like that and like serial killer thriller, which are like my favorite. So obviously I would die to be creeped out by a sacred. Dark Academia. Mm-hmm. I fan grow by myself over serial killer thrillers all the time. So. I fan girl with you, but always in the dark academia.

Whenever you take that journey, we're just here to give you ideas. Well, yeah, the next ones are, yeah, they're in place. And I'm halfway through the writing of the next one and I already have the plot for the one after that. And I told my editor that plot and she's just like, oh my gosh, I want to read this right now. I'm like, I still sort of have to write the one before that. But it's good to have like something to look forward to. yeah well we definitely do and everybody who is listening can look forward to June 20th and you can get your copy of the only one left so don't be the only one left of your friends

that hasn't read it yeah that's good yeah corny but good yeah I can blurb that for you I'll type it up in everything well we'll put it on the back cover yeah that'll be perfect you go um much for joining us today and hanging out and chatting with us about the book that scared the shit out of us. Awesome. I really appreciate it. It was a pleasure. Yeah.

So we just like to, and I know you are busy and you have all these interviews and everything, but we just kind of like to end it with, you know, what is Riley Sager loving right now? So is there a book that you read recently or something coming out soon that you love that you would recommend to people before the next Sager book comes out. I've recommended this a lot. The last word by Taylor Adams.

Crazy. So good. So good. Could not put down. Twisty, twisty, twisty. Yeah. I love that. I loved Mrs. Davis on Peacock. It's crazy. It's so bizarre. It's a weird, weird show, but I loved it. Just go along for the ride.

I'll have to check it out. seeing that advertise. Yeah, it's really fun. And movies, I haven't had time to see hardly anything. Like, I'm looking forward to Indiana Jones. But yeah, I've been very lax in my movie going of late.

Yeah. Well, plenty of time to keep up when you finally slow it down, but after the book tour, I'll be going to the movies a lot. Yeah. There you know. Well, you'll have to keep us updated on on which ones are musty. Yeah, we're worth it.

All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks. See you guys. Take it easy.