Bookwild - Rob Hart's The Medusa Protocol: Assassins In Recovery and Bad Guys Mining Memories

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

This week, I got to talk with Rob Hart about the second book in his Assassins Anonymous Series The Medusa Protocol. We dive into the inspiration for the title, how he crafts action without letting his main characters kill anyone, and plans for the third book in the series.The Medusa Protocol SynopsisWhen Astrid, known in her assassin days as Azrael, stopped showing up to Assassins Anonymous, the group assumed her past had caught up with her. Only her sponsor Mark, formerly the deadliest killer in the world, holds out hope that she’s okay. Then, during a meeting, the group gets a sign, or rather, a pizza delivery. Is there another psychopath out there who actually likes olives on their pizza, or is Astrid trying to send Mark a message?Meanwhile, Astrid wakes up in the cell of a black site prison, on a remote island. A doctor subjects her to mysterious experiments, plumbing the depths of her memory and looking for a vital clue from her past. She’ll do anything to escape, except…killing anyone. Hmm. Turns out it’s not easy to blow this joint without blowing anything, or anyone up. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

This week I got to talk with Rob Hart about the second book in his Assassin's Anonymous series, The Medusa Protocol, which if you loved Assassins Anonymous, if you love John Wick, you're going to love this one too. But this is what it's about. When Astrid, known in her assassin days as Azrael, stopped showing up to Assassins Anonymous, the group assumed her past had caught up with her. Only her sponsor, Mark, formerly the deadliest killer in the world, holds out hope that she's okay. Then, during a meeting, the group gets a sign, or rather, a pizza delivery. Is there another psychopath out there who actually loves olives on their pizza, or is Astrid

trying to send Mark a message? Meanwhile, Astrid wakes up in the cell of a black site prison on a remote island. A doctor subjects her to mysterious experiments, plumbing the depths of her memory and looking for a vital clue from her past. She'll do anything to escape, except kill anyone. Hmm. Turns out it's not easy to blow this journey. without blowing anything or anyone up.

I love this synopsis because it really contains the voice of this series as well. A little bit snarky, a little bit funny, but also very, very action-packed. And it was fun to hear about how he came up with the title, the Medusa Protocol, where that came from, and also how he continues to write action without killing anyone. at least without his main characters killing anyone. So that being said, let's hear from Rob. I am so excited to talk about the Medusa Protocol.

This is one of my favorite action series now. It's always fun seeing them grow. But with writing your second one, was there anything different about writing this than writing the first one? And kind of how did you like evolve it into book number two? well you know the biggest challenge right off the bat was that assassins Anonymous has one pov character it's just mark and in the second book it was like okay well now astrid is going to be the other pov character and and so right off the bat they're both former assassins they're both

in recovery but they both have to come to it from different places they both have their own traumas they have to have different voices so they sound different and so it was a lot of thought into how to to find that that sort of like line of demarcation between them. But I also kind of backed myself into a corner because on the first book, I made this decision where, you know, the book is taking place on like two time tracks. You know, there's the present day story. And then there's these flashback scenes kind of showing us who Mark is and how he got to where he is. It's like one of the world's deadliest killers.

And I was like, I'm just going to write it all in first person, POV, present tense, even the flashbacks. because to me it felt more visceral and more like, you know, it had to have a bit of a confessional aspect because it's a book about people who are in a recovery program. And so then I'm like, I'm going to have two narrators. What do I do? You know what? I'm going to have both of them in first person present, including Astrid's flash vaccines. So there's going to be three separate narratives all in first person present because I can do what I want. These are my books. And it was. it was one of those things where I really felt like I'm going to send this to my editor and she's going to be like, what have you done? Why did you do this to me? And I was, I was very pleasantly surprised. She thought it worked. You know, a lot of, there's been a couple of reviews already like on Good Reeds and stuff. I know you're not supposed to read Good Reets reviews, but I read my Good Reets reviews. If you can handle it, I think you can do it. Yeah. And a couple of people have like pointed out specifically that they were surprised that that worked. And I'm not. I'm like, thank God, because, you know, it would have been a lot of rewriting if it didn't. But also, like, the idea of doing one character and first and one character and third seems insane to me. Even though I did that on the warehouse, but that was sort of like a different narrative structure.

So, but yeah, no, it was it was a whole series of challenges in terms of, you know, both storytelling, but, you know, from a mechanical standpoint. And I was, I was pretty happy with how it came out. Yeah. I think most readers don't always even pay attention. I think that's like the other part. Like some people are just like, oh, I'm in the next chapter. It's whatever. But that's cool that some people even noticed it.

It wasn't one where I was like, oh, my gosh, this is what's happening each time. But I do feel like kind of what you're saying too also with like it being action as well. It's like you kind of feel more like you're in it if it's first person present as well. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's kind of what I was going for. Yeah. With, so Astrid is kind of, it's still kind of split. Like she is still like she's, she's the focus of it a little bit, but we're still with Mark a lot too. But I loved, I loved getting, I love getting flashbacks in general. I think it's a fun way to get to know people. So how did you choose like which memories you were going to explore with her and like what to include with her character?

You know, for it was, you know, with assassins and with Medusa protocol, it's always like, which are the most formative moments for these characters. Like, you know, we see, an Assassin's Anonymous, we see Mark on his very first hit, like the first time that he's killing, because he was a Navy SEAL. And it's, it's, we, we meet him, uh, the first person that he's killing outside of, like, the field of battle, you know, and that he's just sent to kill. And that's a formative moment for him. For Astrid, we see, you know, and I don't want to give too much away, but like, the first person that she kills, she actually kills when she's much younger. And it's for sort of like a, it's kind of self-defense, but it's kind of not self-defense, you know. It's because she has like a very traumatic past. And so it was, it's fun to kind of play in that space of trying to figure out like what, because each flashback has to move the character forward, even though.

it's kind of not technically moving the main story forward. I've got to move her forward so that you understand who she is and why she got to where she is. So it's a lot of like, you know, kind of kind of just contemplating before I even write the book. Like what are the what are the waypoints in this person's life that I really need to cover? Yeah. I don't know. Well, I don't know if you've seen ballerino, which is like the new John Wick one. But I guess people compare this to John Wick a lot in the reviews that I was.

reading and we went and saw it was that really just last week but it same thing you have like a really young girl she's even younger I think than Astrid was when she killed someone but it is so jarring when you're like opening up with like a kid essentially that is so used to violence but it was crazy because I just finished reading yours and then I was watching this one I was like she's a little bit like Astrid too but I I loved it um I thought it was still really cool in keeping with the franchise. But they kind of told her stories similarly. With the title of the Medusa Protocol, and this might be a spoiler, so I can just cut it out. But we do learn eventually why it was called that. Is that something you want to talk about

how you came up with? Or do you want to just hide that since it's later into the book? No, no. I mean, I think it's so the premise of the Medusa Protocol, which you talked about in the intro is like Astrid gets you know kidnapped and stuck in this black side prison that's on a snake filled island that's based on a real island off the cave off the coast of us up Paulo and Brazil and they've got this protocol that you know would like if they ever lost control of the prison like it would let all the snakes in and just kill everyone there and it's called the Medusa protocol and

so Astrid you know kind of clocks that it's called the Medusa protocol it was named by a man and and you know kind of talks about how the original medusa myth that if you go back into the roots of the myth medusa was a rape victim like she wasn't she's not just a monster that appeared out of nowhere turning people into stone i forget the the particular mythological characters involved because i wrote the book like over a year ago but it's like she was she she was an incredibly beautiful woman who you know another character in greek mythology was jealous of and you know after she was raped by another character, the other female character, like, condemned her to being a monster because basically blamed her for it's like, well, you were too beautiful. So, and Medusa mostly just wants to live in peace and what's his face shows up to make a name for himself to cut her head off.

And so, you know, it just felt like it was important to just kind of talk about the roots of the myth a little bit, especially in the context of the book, which deals with some heavy themes of like sex trafficking. You know, I think it would have been. irresponsible to not, you know, kind of presents the other side. Yeah. It's crazy when I was reading it. There's also a book coming out. I can't remember the author's name, but I just got on that gallery.

It's called I Medusa. And it's like a retelling of that story. And I like got approved for it while I was reading this one. And so I was like doing all the Medusa research. But I also, that was just a couple weeks ago and I can't remember the names of everyone else involved. But her story is it's actually sad. And mostly, like you're saying, we kind of just remember like, oh, she's this monstrous woman. But it did fit really well for the snakes as well.

And with the snakes, so that me and my allergies are bad. She's, Astrid's being held somewhere where there are snakes like basically everywhere. And so a common theme throughout like the whole story, obviously, is that they don't kill anymore. And so I feel like you had to be really creative. with like all kinds of things, including how you would get through snakes and not kill other people, but something that my, one of my friends,

Hallie Sutton, she talks about how you can like tell when an author is having fun writing a book. And that's what these like feel like with all the like clever ways you, write action without killing, at least from their side. So did you do any like specific research with this one of like fun ways to accomplish that? you know it's it's a little bit of research in the sense that I I do have to spend some time looking up like uh you know how non-lethal weapons work but for the most part it's really just it's problem solving you know and and and it's it's giving yourself guardrails sometimes just forces you to be more creative and I love these guardrails because it's like that's the thing about assassin stories is it's like oh like John Wick has a problem he's going to shoot it in the head you know whereas like I've got characters who have to sit down and

and say, well, you know, a taser would be useful, but a taser can induce cardiac arrest. And if I knew the risk going into it and I still used it, then that still is in conflict with my sobriety. You know, all of these things just make it harder. And I've got to sit down then and figure out, like, how do I get these characters out of this situation, but also keep everyone alive.

And, and yeah, it is, it is just the absolute best. I love it so much. It's so much fun because it just, it makes me work harder, you know. And I'm always up for a challenge. Yeah. That makes sense. I, it's making me think I was talking to a director last year. Damien, Wiking, I think of his last name, who wrote, Audity, wrote and directed it.

But he was saying the same thing about guardrails where, like, the location he was able to film at was just because his friend, like, owned this, like, I don't even know how to describe it. It's like a building that's kind of like. three hallways almost. But when I was asking about it, because I thought it was such a cool location, he was like, I was restricted because that was the only place I could film it. So then when I was writing, I had the restrictions of knowing where I was going to have to film it. And he said that same thing.

Sometimes it helps you with creativity because you, like, know which direction you have to go with it. And I always think that's so fascinating because sometimes people think it needs to mean, like, think of whatever you want to, but I feel like that could be just as overwhelming sometimes too. Yeah, I mean, you know, probably one of the great examples in film history is Jaws.

You know, the, the mechanical robot, the mechanical shark, which I think, was named Bruce, kept on breaking. So because it kept on breaking, they couldn't use it as much. So they had to, you see the shark a lot less than they had planned for you to see the shark.

But that actually makes it more terrifying. You know, because like, you know, the monster you can't see is scarier than the monster you see. So it's, you know, maybe, would jaws have been less impactful if you saw the shark more? I mean, probably not at Spielberg. Like the guy knows what he's doing. Right. But overall, you know, it was a very, very happy accident. And that limitation, I think, created such a greater feeling of fear and dread within the movie.

Yeah. Yeah. It really does. The other thing I really love about this series is there's like a combo of we have like, we are getting the emotional story. It's not just these hitmen and women killing all the time. And then we also get the action, but there's also like really funny moments too. So there's like a lot that you're balancing.

And I know last year we talked about you shared your how musicals and action movies are like similar like breaking into song is the same as breaking into fighting and i was like annoying tyler while we were watching a movie i was like this is like what rob said it's like a musical he's like oh yeah but um there you have all of those elements even kind of the comedy so is that something you think about balancing while you're writing or does it kind of happen naturally is it just kind of a tone that you understand now i mean i think you know the matusa protocol is my 10th book. So there's a degree to which I kind of have it down to a schick. Like I've got my process. I've got it because it's my voice. Like that's just that's just who I am. It's like I can,

I, I, I, I, I, I feel like I am a deeply emotional jackass. But, but I think that it's really, humor is a really important tool for writers because if you can laugh with a character, then you can like a character, you know, then you can trust the character. Then you're going to care about what happens to the character. If you're laughing with them, you feel like a part of it. you feel like you're in on the joke. So humor is such an important tool. But also it's, I think it's important for characters like these

because it's like, A, it's a defense mechanism. Like they're dealing with a lot of very heavy things. They need to be able to laugh. They need to be able to access their own layers of humanity. You know, but also like dark humor is the way we kind of protect ourselves sometimes by creating like a little bit of a disconnect.

You know, and so in terms of, I like that like that humor, heart action balance a lot. You know, and, you know, I'm very lucky. And there's something about these books that have just clicked in my brain in a big way. Like, they're so much fun to write. And they don't feel like that much of a struggle. I feel like they just come out. I mean, I do think they're garbage when I'm writing them, but that's like any writer's process. I need someone else to read it and tell me that I did a good job. I need my pat on the head and to be told

them a good boy. But yeah, no, it's a, they're just fun. They're fun. They, they, they feel like a full realization of my voice, which, which I really enjoy. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, so the other thing going on for Astrid is the people holding her captive are like mining her memories, like we kind of talked about. And I always think it's, I, I just think memory in general is always intriguing in books, like whether it's thrillers or not. And it doesn't get into like necessarily like technical details, but was there anything you kind of like researched or thought about with with her captors trying to like pull memories out of her? I mean, the one thing that I really did is I kind of realized like pretty quickly on that that was my framing device of like why we were getting those flashbacks. And, you know, they're they're mining her.

They're trying to find a very specific piece of information. but it's an imperfect process, you know. And that's the thing that's kind of funny. It's like you see movies and like, you know, someone will use like, it's like, oh, go get the truth serum. And truth serum isn't a thing. Like, that's not real. But I was fascinated by this idea of like, what if someone was trying to develop that

kind of process and actually make it real? Because, you know, information is, you know, worth its weight in gold. It's probably more valuable than gold. So, you know, being able to create this process where you can actually extract memories from people would probably be. pretty cool. I'm making it sound like kind of like a sci-fi concept. It's really not like a sci-fi concept. It's not like a heavy like focus of it for sure. Yeah. Yeah. If you're an author, chances are high that you just want to spend your time writing and maybe reading, not thinking

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the description it is fascinating to think of and she kind of like wakes up and is like whoa why was i was i was just thinking about that um but it's it's cool how we still got to it is cool as a framing device to your point like it helped it helped be the structure um and it's like why she's being held captive but we also get to know her more as well um and i was seeing that I can't remember if it was on good reason at Cali, but somewhere it talks about how like it can be a standalone as well as part of a series. So did you have to like, was there anything you thought of specifically with that like keeping it standalone or just like, I think the other thing is since it's focusing on another character, that might be kind of why

it works that way too. Yeah, that's sort of like that that that's the decision that the publishing gods make, which is sometimes frustrating where it's like every end in a series, because, look, someone might go in a bookstore and say, like, oh, that looks like a cool book and pick it up and read it. They have to be able to read it in a vacuum and understand everything that's going on without needing all that backstory, where there are going to be people who liked assassins who pick up the sequel. So they're going to then get that little bit of extra added depth, you know, which is fun.

But I have to, like, please both audiences, which, you know, it just means finding the right balance between like, you know, putting in enough backstory that people can understand what happened without making them feel like they missed out on something. You know, the one thing that was interesting is I had this conversation with my editor. You know, in the, so this is based on the Assassin's Anonymous is based on Alcoholics. Alcoholics Anonymous. So it's a 12-step recovery program. And at the start of every meeting, they go, they read the steps. And so they do it in the first book. And then they do it in the second book and and daphne my editor was like oh we could take these out you put them in the first book i'm like no no no no no you told me it had to work as a standalone so someone picks

this up they the steps are a framing device like you need to read those steps to understand the journey so i'm like i'm sorry but we're going to have to spend a page in each one of these books we're listing the steps again it's just it's the way it's got to be yeah i was i'm just remembering as i was reading it i remember i was like turned in tyler and i was like okay this is so cool what i thought was cool that you did. Don't think this is a spoiler. It's in the first chapter. But how you have Mark like setting out the chairs for everyone. And so then as he like sets it down, you're able to kind of give the backstory. So we remember who is who. And I was like, that is such a clever way. It's like get us caught back up. Because the other thing for me, first of all, how do books not have previously

on yet? Like we've had this in TV for years, but you never get like a previously long on at the beginning. So it's like, even though I read the book, I read it or the first book, I read it a year ago. So it's like, I'm not going to remember everyone's names and necessarily specifically who they were. But I thought that was such an effective way to like even get me up to speed who didn't remember all the character names. Yeah. It's, it's a, again, it's a delicate balance. Like you've got to do it in a way that feels subtle and not, uh, you know, if it's, if it's too heavy handed again, like someone might say like, ah, like, I can't, read this now because I didn't read the first one. And like asking someone to read one book,

it feels like a lot saying like you also have to read a second. Like please do that first. Yeah. You know, it's the same reason that like someone tells me like, oh, you know, you should watch this show. It's great. There's like six seasons out. And I'm like, I don't have time for six seasons TV. Like I got a kid. Yeah. Totally. It is the, it is the hard part even as a reader. You're right. Because it's like sometimes it's hard for me to want to start a series. when it's like, oh, there are 12 books, this new one is coming out. Or like when publicists will send books and I'm like, I can't go back and read everything, though. So it's kind of like the ones that like I love Yasmin Ongos was like one of my favorite

trilogies as well. But it's kind of one of those where it's like if you catch it at the first book, like you're saying, it is less intimidating to get into the second one as well. I know you have the third one. kind of finished right was that even when i saw in one of your stories it's it's well you know i finished it and sent it to my editor and now she's gonna she she's gonna make it good yeah um but yeah yeah no the third one is done it's in uh it's called three hit men and a baby and it is i you know the the first book is obviously pretty heavy the second book deals with themes of

like sex trafficking so again heavy book so for the third one i'm like i'm just like this is going to be a reward for everyone who's stuck with the series. This is going to be a rom. This is going to be funny. And then by halfway through, I was like, oh, no, this is emotionally devastating. What about done? So, but, but I, I, I'm really happy with where it fits into, uh, the series. And, and it was a really fun book to write. And so I'm eagerly awaiting my editor's notes to see what she thinks as to whether or not, because, you know, everything I write is garbage until someone tells me otherwise. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited. I love the title. The title made me think it was probably somewhat funny too, but I mean, all of them are as well. But yeah, even just the titles, it has me excited. I have been asking people if they've read anything recently that they loved. I don't know if you've just been a writing mindset or if you've read anything.

I have been so underwater that I haven't been doing a ton of reading recently. I did recently read Lena Churn's new book. She writes, God, I'm forgetting Play the Fool, I think. It's the second in her series. They're like tarot mysteries, really, really good. She's fantastic. I saw the cover was cool. Yeah, yeah.

And she has such a cool, cool narrative voice. I really love it. King of Ashes by S.A. Cosby just came out. And, you know, once again, Sean killed it. thrilled for him. That is such a good book. I read that. He sent it to me

when it was still a word document. So I read it like seven or eight months ago. But I absolutely loved it. It's so good. And yeah, I've got kind of like a giant pile of books that I need to get through. I'm really excited.

There's this book called No Man's Ghost by Jason Powell, which just came out from Dutera. And what's cool about that is that it's a sort of mystery book set in the New York's fire department. And the narrator is a firefighter. And my dad was on the job for like 30 years. So it's it's pretty cool. Like I've never read a firehouse mystery before. So I don't either now that you say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to dig into that. I think that's going to be really awesome. I'm thinking by August I'll probably be able to read books again. Right. You know, it's it's just it's

hard because I turned in. Yeah, like I turned in three hitman and a baby. I'm now working on the sequel. to detour. And I'm really trying to, I'm really trying to haul on on a project where I'm trying to write like a YA middle grade book for my daughter because she keeps on, she keeps on asking. She's like, when are you going to write a book that I can read? And I'm like, okay, okay, so she's 10 and she's a great little reader. Like she loves reading and she's so good at it. Like, she's such a smart kid. And I feel like it would be so cool to write something for her. And I've got like a fantasy idea that I really, really love, and I think it's a lot of fun. And it's also kind of rooted in, like, Irish and Celtic mythology and our family is Irish. And, you know, so it's a cool way for me to sort of like tap into my roots a little bit, but for her to learn a little bit more about them too, you know, because, like, her mom is Jewish and she's in Hebrew school. And, you know, she's really getting like a really strong foundation there on that side of her heritage. But like, other than going to the St. Paddy's Day parade, like, we're, We're not really doing much Irish stuff.

So I think it's an opportunity for us both. And so I am reading for that, like a lot of like Celtic myth stuff and mythology, trying to learn a little bit more there. But, but yeah, you know, one day I'll be able to read books for pleasure again. I wanted to interrupt this episode really quickly. I have a goal of monetizing Bookwild, but I would love to do it without having to have ads in the podcast. And one way that I can do that is through my Patreon community.

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Book Wilde's Backlist Book Club. So this year, I've been wanting to also still read more Backlist, even though I read plenty of arcs, and Book Wilde's Backlist Book Club felt like the perfect way to do that. We meet on Sundays. We are international right now, so Sundays are the best way to do it, and we meet. on Zoom and we all pick a book and we talk about it and then we talk about everything else we read during the month and then we pick another book for the next month. So it's been so much fun so far and we'd love to have you join the book club. So if you'd like to support the book Wild podcast, you can go to

the Patreon link and the show notes and you can sign up for whichever to your interest you. And if you're looking for a free way to support the show, if you can like and review it on whichever platform me listen to that helps so much yeah i'm excited i didn't get approved for s a cosby's the king of ashes one that's ridiculous i am going to i'm going to call marlina bitner she's the head of publicity at flat iron i'm surprised it doesn't happen very often anymore but what i was going to say at least is i i think it's what i'm going to read next i'm actually reading um i'm reading one called her faces right now. Nikki Cloak, I think, is her name, which is really cool.

It's like this woman is accused of murder at like a member's only club. There are a bunch of like rich men who get poisoned. I think it's four men. The whole story is told from five perspectives. Her father, her brother, a childhood friend, the journalist writing about her and her lawyer. And so you're all in everyone else's perspectives. I am hooked. Like I, I would think I would have it done by now by how hooked I am, but it's just been a busy week.

Yeah. So, but I think when I, yeah, the chapters are really short. So anyone who really loves short chapters, it's crazy the way they're like, the author's just revealing all this stuff. And we have no clue what we think about this woman because everyone's perspective is so different. So that one's been really fun. But I think I might, I think I'm going to try to read King of Ash's next. is what I was thinking about.

So when you said that, I was like, oh, yeah, that might be my next read too. It's got to be good. I mean, everything he does is amazing. It was a couple of weeks ago. We were doing a noir at the bar reading together.

And we were just kind of like sitting aside. We were catching up and bullshitting. He's like, and look, like, Sean is God right now. Like his makes do so well. He gets such great coverage and he absolutely deserves it.

He's still like one of the nicest guys in the business. But we're also like giant balls of insecurity. Like every author is. and we were and he's like yeah man i'm just like i'm a little worried that you know like people might not connect with this one because this is a really dark book i'm like dude like your other books were like you know the hungry catapillar walks in the park yeah it's like you're you're not right in cozies my friend no you know i think your readers are going to be able to also like all the sinners bleed was a dark book it's about a serial killer killing children um yes you are king of ashes king of

of ashes is a dark book. I was like, if your readers walk into that and they find themselves blindsided, then I, then they need help that that I can't get on. I agree. I completely agree. Like, you're not expecting his to even really make you laugh. Like, that's not even necessarily a part of it. Yeah. I'm excited. I say everyone who reads it loves it. And I'm like, all right, I'm all right, I think I'm going to be able to fit this one in. I think I'm through all of my June ones on that galley. So I think I can, I can read a, it's not even, even a backlist. I can read a non-net galley one next basically. Yeah. So I'm excited. But where can people follow you to stay up to date on everything? My website is rob whart.com. And from there,

you can get to my my blue sky, my Instagram, my substack, which is where I'm probably like most active these days in terms of just writing whatever dumb thing comes into my head. And yeah, Medusa Protocol is out June 24th. Then detour is out. January 13th. And then three Hitman and a baby, presumably will be out next June. So it looks like I'm going to be on a June release schedule for the Assassin's books. There's going to be at least two detour books, possibly a third. And I'll be a January release schedule for those.

So, you know, good, a little bit of breathing room between them. You've got a little bit of breathing room. That's like a little bit. Just a little bit. Yeah. Well, I will put those links in the show notes for everyone. And I will see you. We're recording on June 12th.

I will see you in about a week at Thriller Fest. So you are coming? I am coming. Awesome. So where are you from? I'm from Indiana. Indiana, okay. Fortunately.

But it is, New York is going to do that bad. What? Is Indiana that bad? I mean, there's lots of ways to answer that question. It's very conservative. So there's that. Oh, yeah. That's bad.

It's extremely conservative. And there's nothing. happening here but the cost of living is low so there's the pro i guess no no and that's a huge pro like i just i was uh born and raised on statin island i lived there my whole life uh and i just moved to jersey city because it was like you know what i'm done i'm done with paying a premium to say you're still so close there my commute is is almost exactly the same you know if i want to go into my office or you know it's an extra 15 minutes in the morning driving my daughter to school and and i can i can live with that but um but i'm i'm so glad that you're coming to thriller fest uh we're going to have to get together

and hang out for a bit um we have to for sure it's uh it's a good time it's an expensive time but it is it is we figured it out yeah i'm excited for all of the next books too so we'll be talking about three hitmen and a baby in about a year awesome