Bookwild - Sagit Schwartz's Broken Threads: Ageism in Publishing and Social Media, And the Writer's Battle Against AI

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

This week, I talk with Sagit Schwartz about her new short story thriller Broken Threads! We dive into the inspiration for the story, the fun of writing short stories, and the Easter egg for her next novel.Broken Threads SynopsisWhen Clare loses her job as a technical writer at a pharmaceutical company due to AI, she has one month’s rent saved and a historical fiction novel she’s been unable to get published. Desperate, she turns to Amber, a young influencer in her apartment building, for help promoting the book.Amber offers Clare a shocking deal: fifty percent of the profits—if Clare allows her to claim the novel as her own. Running out of money and options, Claire hesitantly agrees.Then, the unimaginable happens. The book is an instant runaway hit—a viral phenomenon, skyrocketing to the top of multiple bestseller lists. Literary agents reach out to Amber, eager to sign her, and Clare begins to suspect Amber is cheating her out of money. Until Amber is found dead… Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

I also think it's really useful in terms of writing and you're working on a thriller to consume television and film that's in the mystery thriller genre because it moves very quickly. And I do think that not all, but a lot of thrillers these days, the expectation is that a lot happens in a short amount of time. And I, you know, it's funny. I, with my short story, a few readers who really enjoyed since she's been gone asked to read early copies, drafts of it, and I sent it to them. And they all said, you packed so much in 39 pages. And I was thinking that really is my television film brain.

This week I got to talk with my good friend and one of my favorite writers, Soggy Schwartz, about her new short story broken threads. It is very fun. So much happens in like 40 pages, essentially. And there's even a little bit of an Easter egg in it for her next full-length novel that's coming out. So you don't want to miss out on this. But here is the synopsis.

When Claire loses her job as a technical writer at a pharmaceutical company due to AI, She has one month's rent saved and historical fiction novels she's been unable to get published. Desperate, she turns to Amber, a young influencer in her apartment building, for help promoting the book. Amber offers Claire a shocking deal, 50% of the profits if Claire allows her to claim the novel as her own. Running out of money and options, Claire hesitantly agrees. Then the unimaginable happens. The book is an instant runaway hit, a viral phenomenon skyrocketing to the top of

of multiple bestseller lists. Literary agents reach out to Amber, eager to sign her, and Claire begins to suspect Amber is cheating her out of money, until Amber is found dead. There's, like, so much fun stuff, fun stuff, maybe not fun stuff, about the publishing industry in this short story. She talks about AI's impact on writers,

as well as ageism that is really kind. in both publishing and social media, which has become more important if you want to be a published author. And the ending is amazing. So I will say if anyone is trying to hit their Goodreads reading goal before the end of the year, this is a nice short story that will help you get there. That being said, let's hear from Sagit. I am super excited to talk with Sagit Schwartz again. If you've been listening to the podcast this year, you've definitely heard me talking about her books since she's been gone. But she also wrote a short story here recently called Broken Threads that I'm excited to talk about. So welcome.

Hi. I'm so happy to be here again. Yeah. I'm excited. So a couple of things I was thinking about as I was just like prepping an interview. You have introduced me to some of my favorite TV shows. of the last couple months. I'm an obsessive

television and film person when it comes to suspense mysteries, spy thrillers, like that's what I consume 90% of the time. Yeah. Except in 10% like, you know, English teacher. I know. Everything else is the other stuff.

That's what I thought is so cool is like for whatever reason. So like, Gare doesn't necessarily, he's just like comedy doesn't get to him. And there are plenty of like thriller readers that feel that way. And it's so I'm just glad that it's not just me where it is. It's like 90% is like thrilling in some way or mysterious. But like also I love the comedy that I do watch. And the English teacher was so good. So good. I love that show so

much. Yeah. I was what was I? Who was I just talking to? Drew. He's a man reader is his Instagram handle. And you're talking about. I was recently in touch with him, yeah. Oh, nice. Good. Yeah, he's so cool. And he reads so much. Ian watches a lot of stuff.

But we were talking about how, like, comedies used to be, like, 22 episode seasons. And I'm like, I needed 22 episodes. I'm English teacher. I basically, the pilot episode of that show, I laughed out loud twice in the first 10 minutes. Yeah.

And I texted my best friend, and I'm like, I just laughed. twice in the first 10 minutes of a TV show. Like, you need to watch this. Yeah. It was so funny, but also clever and smart. Thought provoking. Right.

Current, too. Yeah. Current. Speaking about this moment in time. Yes. Yeah. And I like how they, they approach wokeism, but like also just, what is it called? It's really funny.

It's politics, but like when we're like playing politics or whatever. But it approaches like all sides in many ways. Like it's not making a judgment on like one generation getting it completely right. I agree. Yeah. Which is nice. It was such a cool idea. And I've been starting my wish list, like my guest wish lists.

And Brian Giornaugres is out there. So we got to make that happen. Yes. So if anyone is listening and knows him, let them know that, like, we'll both interview him even. I have touted that show to more people than I know. Yeah. My husband actually read an article about it because my husband consumes more television and film than I do. Yeah.

I read probably more than him. He was an English major, but nowadays he's more into consuming stories through television and film. And he sent me an article and he was like, I just try this and it is so funny. You need to try it. So that's how I heard about it. Oh my gosh. That is so cool. Yeah, you got me on Disclaimer 2, which is dark and bleak for our dark and bleak fans.

Yeah, it is. But it was so interesting though. Yes. How a book was like the smoking gun of the entire. Yes. I really think it's like for readers and it's based on a book. I mean, so I, you know, I heard you talk about it. I'm on the pod.

Yeah. I really, that one I just think was like made for readers and the acting was incredible. And the day. Yeah. It really was. There were so many, like even the way the characters narrate like themselves. Like it feels like you're watching a book is what, was really cool.

Right. On top of all of the very complicated storylines going on. Yeah. Well, I'll keep the wrecks coming. Yes. I need you to. You helped me like it to kind of like remember like, oh yeah, I don't just have to read like because I have a reading podcast.

Like I do love TV just as much too. I also think it's really useful in terms of writing. and you're working on a thriller to consume television and film that's in the mystery thriller genre because it moves very quickly. And I do think that not all, but a lot of thrillers these days, the expectation is that a lot happens in a short amount of time. I mean, there could be quieter, you know, more mysteries that, are slow burns, but I think they're more rare now, actually.

I think they are too. I mean, one of my favorites, what this year was the god of the woods. Yeah. Yeah. Very slow burn. Yeah. That's rare. Yeah.

Yeah. They're not showing up as much. I can't help myself. I love fast pace, so I might be part of, I'm part of the demand out there. And I, you know, it's funny, with my short story that is yet to be released, I'm waiting on Amazon, I've never uploaded a short story on KDP before. This is a first for me. Oh, that's kind of cool.

In review. And it should be out any day. But I've a few readers who really enjoyed since she's been gone asked to read early copies, drafts of it and I sent it to them and they all said you packed so much in 39 pages. Yes. And I was thinking that really is my television film brain and I did work in Hollywood. So I think that I apply those lessons of like the plots got to keep moving and moving and every line matters in a script and you know you're talking about

filming days and not I mean everything is so precise. So I bring that lens and perspective, I think, to writing. Yeah. Well, two things from that. Because I was about to say that since she's been gone, I feel like you did both. So I'm like the interesting reader who's like, I love character driven, but I'm like, but I love fast pace. And those don't always go together. But like the balance is like, like since she's been gone is a good example of one where like, but if the character development like really.

matters to me and I like care about the character and stuff is happening like as that's going forth. That's where I think I like a book's more memorable for me too. Interesting. Yeah. Otherwise it can might just be you know, plot, plot, plot, plot, and then it's over and it was like a Snickers candy bar that you devoured and it was great, but I don't remember what it tastes like now. I know. It's interesting that we're talking about this because as I've been writing, I have been like, I've been getting in my head because I've talked so much on the podcast recently about how I'm like a pacing snob. And so then I'm like writing all this stuff. And I'm like, it really matters.

They need to know this about this character. And I'm like getting in my own head and being like, am I too boring? Am I not? Is this not fast pace? Get it all out. Yes. Yes. No judgment.

No. You know, you can kill your babies later. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I've got to get it out right now. Yes. I mean, I've had situations. were all right a whole 10-page backstory for a character that will never appear in the book.

Just so I understand how they speak, what their lenses, where they're coming from. None of it is time that is not well spent. It's all worthwhile in the end. Because even if you end up taking those parts out later, it'll bring a depth and breath to the characters. Yeah. that's really good to know because I do have I definitely have like 20,000 words that I just don't think will end up in it but it like told the story of the main character's mother essentially and how they ended up where they are so I don't know that it needed 20 it'll end up needing to be 20 thousand words of it in the book but I agree it like makes them feel more solidified in my head as I move forward and it'll but even beyond that it'll it'll it'll be more reflective on the page. Yeah.

Yeah. That will come through, whether those words are there or not, that will come through. Because then that character is moving around with the breath and depth of their experiences in the book. Yeah. Totally. Totally. I love that perspective. Who knew I was going to give my writing advice on today, too.

Oh, my second part of the, my second part of the, my. second question was, did we talk about you being in Hollywood previously? I feel like I didn't know that. What did you do in Hollywood? Yeah, I don't remember. Yeah, I, you know, I had my years there pre-COVID, mainly television and got a show made on Lifetime Television. It was a romance digital series. there were like 10 different like mini series. I was a co-head writer and it was a lot of fun. We got the chemistry tests and sitting in on those as a producer and, you know, having to make decisions about, because you can have two unbelievably attractive people, actors, brilliant, but then they

don't have the chemistry. Right. And, and so those were really fun. And yeah, it was, it was a lot of work, but it was worthwhile. And some of the digital series, I think they're on, they play them on YouTube. Oh, okay. The series was called Fall Into Me. And then underneath them, there were different ones.

There was measurements. There was just several different ones that each had, about eight episodes that were like seven minutes each. So it was like a digital series. That's cool. Yeah. It's a cool experience. It was great.

It was a great experience. But I definitely bring that to my writing, I think. Yes. That lens. Keep it moving. That's for sure. Yeah. So what had you wanting to think about short stories?

You know, I have. a new thriller book coming out next year, The Underdog. And I just, as a writer, you just kind of have to keep things going in publishing because people forget about you. They're on to other things. What's the next book? And I didn't want to wait a year between each publication of each book. And I was like, I think releasing a short story around Christmas time might be good. It's like a quick little escape for people, you know, family stress, just something fun,

something like. Yeah. And just to just distract yourself. Now, I had this idea for the story, but I didn't know that it was going to be a prequel of sorts or have an Easter egg for my thriller that's coming out in March. That I did not know. I was wondering, but I didn't know if I was going to bring it up or not, because I didn't know if it was spoilery. Because you do, she does something really cool at the end that everyone that's excited for the underdog, now you should be excited to read this too.

So you can get a little Easter egg for it. Yeah. I will see how this goes. I mean, it also depends on my ideas and all of that. that in the future, if I might release yearly a short story that's kind of a prequel to whatever thriller I did. I'm going to see how this goes. Yeah.

You know, this is new for me. Right. Yeah, that's all you can do. Just see what happens. Was there anything different about writing a short story compared to a novel? I mean, I'm sure there were some things. Well, it's not as laborious. and you don't have to keep track of things that are going on in over 300 pages.

Yes. So it's a little simpler in that way. Yeah. It was really fun to write. Yeah. And you can kind of just, I was talking with Hallie Sutton about this recently, where she was saying, like, she's even writing short stories because she needs to feel like she's done with something and, like, wants to, like, have that further. her motivation on a novel that takes so much longer to write. So I'm sure it's kind of fun too where you're like, I can do 40 pages.

Absolutely. Yeah, it's not new to me. I have published stories on Reddit, no sleep. I don't know. Oh, nice. You know, that core story space. So I do like short stories. Well, I'm going to have to go read some of those.

I got hyperfixated on We Used to Live here, which came. as well from no sleep that subreddit so now I need to go find yours on there yeah I have one up right now I took some down I think I have one up there now yeah nice I want to read horror for sure I like all of a sudden become more of a horror girly lately it just snuck up on it's called um doctor wait is it called dr porter okay oh no or no No, actually, I'm sorry. Oh, you're good. I adapted that for a film.

Oh. I did a script for it that was called Dr. Porter 2.0, but the Reddit No Sleep Story is, it has a different title. I can send it to you. Okay. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes if you one wants to read, hop on and read it too. So what's interesting, there were so many interesting things in this short story, like you said. the reviewers, including me, felt like you packed a lot into it, and it still feels like a thriller or two. But you also managed to sneak in some commentary amongst all of the plot.

So we start off with the main character, just lost her job as a technical writer, most likely because AI is going to be doing the technical writing for her company now. So what made you want to write about the way the AI is kind of coming for writing jobs? Well, I'm seeing things happen around me. I have author friends and books being taken and fed to the AI machines without permission. There's class action lawsuits going on. This is a real world problem. It's not imaginary.

It's all happening in real time. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. I don't think some people are aware of it and some people aren't. And it is like the regulations is what needs to happen or there just needs to be more regulations about how to use it. But we're just kind of like wait and see how that plays out, I guess. And the other thing that it touches on though is like ageism and publishing.

and how everyone kind of wants to like young ingenue, but like you could be writing great books at any age. What made you want to write about that? Well, that's a story as old. I mean, it's an old story. It's not a new one. That's always been the case in the literary world. So that isn't a new story.

What is new is we have social media now. And authors are expected to go on social media and promote themselves. Yes. And you go on TikTok or YouTube and it's a younger crowd. So what does, in this short story, what does the 53-year-old woman do with the historical fiction novel and her drawer? And I don't know if I've said actually what broken threads is about. I should probably say that. Oh, yeah.

It's about, as you said, it's about an older writer who loses her job as a technical writer at a pharmaceutical company due to AI. And she has one month rent saved and a historical fiction novel she has not been able to get published. So she approaches a young influencer in her apartment building to see if she would be willing to promote it. And the influencer gives her basically a shocking offer. She says, I will as long as I can claim it's my book. And Claire, the protagonist is very desperate, running out of money and reluctantly agrees. And things do not go according to plan.

Yeah. Not at all. Not at all. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it is the, then the issue is that also on social media, like you're saying, like, the ageism is there, too, essentially. Like, whether it's because there are more younger people on it or just that the algorithm is like looking for the like Instagram face. Whatever, like the like face were all like slow women are slowly morphing into like one face on Instagram. Um, so it was, it was fun having, um, using stories and like TikTok and all of it.

You're talking about all of the platforms and stuff and the way that like, uh, there is luck involved with the books that go viral or that really get the attention each year. because that book just sitting in someone's drawer is the same book. But like when it's a cute little influencer selling it, it seems like it's something different. Right. Exactly. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought it was wild. It was kind of fun. It's a little bit snarky too. My dogs are starting to bark, which is one of my favorite buzz, not buzzwords, but like genre words too. So I loved the tone as well. Oh, thank you.

As I said, I really did have fun writing it. And I just wanted it to be a fun experience for people to read it as well. I have had some feedback where people are like, I had a whole range of emotions. I was upset. I was worried. I was this. I was that. But most of all, I just hope you have a blast reading it.

Yeah, I thought it was very fun. And even as a reader sometimes, can you hear him screaming in the background? We recently lost our dog. I know. I have been there. I have been there. We're going to get a new one, though. We are. Oh, I'm glad. Oh, he misses Mama. Yeah. He, um, when he hears, when he hears police sirens, he tries to howl. So it's the only time he howls. He's like trying to talk to the police outside the window right now. Oh my God. I know. Okay. I'm so sorry about your dog. I felt so bad. But is he who the dedication is to? That's what I thought. I was like, oh, made me happy and sad. But. Yeah. That's never easy.

I can't remember what I was talking about when my dog started losing his mind. I was just saying that I really wanted people to have fun reading. Oh, yes. You know, the characters are fun. The setup, I think, is fun in terms of the apartment building and the legal trouble and then the ending. Yes. Yeah, the ending is really good. And I can pretty much guarantee people who like the same books and listen to this podcast, will love the ending. So you have been working on book number two as well.

Is there much you can talk about with that one? That one is, it's called the underdog. And it's about a down-on-her-luck filmmaker who works as a contestant chaperone. at a reality TV music show of the likes, the voice, American Idol, that kind of thing. And she crosses as paths with a dangerous fan of the show.

And it is suspenseful. It is fun. It's in the reality TV music world, which I love. I'm a huge fan of those shows. And it's, The dual POV. So one is of her, the aspiring down on her luck director.

And the other is this obsessed fan. Yeah. And I'm pitching it as none of this is true meets Sunset Boulevard. Ooh. Oh my gosh. So the obsessed fan is actually called Norma. Her name is Norma. Nice.

So that is a nod to Sunset Boulevard. That is so cool. I'm getting more and more excited for this book the longer we talk. It's a popcorn thriller. It's fun. Yeah. This is a fun one. Since she's been gone, I viewed as much as a form of advocacy for mental health. And it's a very emotional thriller heartfelt. This is, you know, change in tone. This is fun. Yeah. I know. And I know you're a. having fun writing something more like that and trying that out. And you did, your research was that you got to watch a lot of episodes of your favorite shows. Yeah. I mean, now, you know, you just

can see like the summaries on TikTok or YouTube. You don't even need to sit through the whole thing. That's true. It is fun watching people trying to sing their way to see. heard of. And, you know, there's always the emotional stories behind their struggles and trying to become an artist because it's that hard. It is really that hard to make it as a position as a singer. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think I like those shows because it's really hard to be a writer too, you know? Anything in the arts, it is hard. It's not just now. Now, historically, this has always been the case. I mean, Van Gogh basically died on the streets with nothing to show for himself. And now he's got a massive museum in Amsterdam. I've been to, which is incredible. Oh, nice.

So, but an artist's life has always been, even before AI, unpredictable, level of insecurity. It's the circus act forever, basically. Yeah, it really is. Which, as you're saying that, I see why people, artists as well, make good characters and thrillers because of all of those things.

Like their life's already a little bit unpredictable. They're in like weird situations. The like stakes are pretty high because they're probably broke all the time, like all of that. And the roller coaster of it, the yes, the no, the, you know, that's just drama. Yeah. It's a high drama lifestyle in a way. Yeah.

That'll be cool. And you need a sensitive side and then you also need to be tough too. Yes. To persevere, take rejection. Yeah. It is, it's interesting. And in the world we live in now, it's particularly interesting. With the tech grows, with, you know, a lot of people trying to squeeze artists out of the picture.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I agree. I'm also excited because I can't think of a singing reality TV show, thriller I've read. Like, Daisy Jones is the only thing that comes up for me. Right? Is that, but that's not really a thriller. That's not a thriller. I read it.

That's not a thriller. This is a thriller. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm very excited. A fun one. Another fun one. If you enjoyed the tone and the fun of broken threads, then this is continuing on that path.

Yeah. Nice. Have you been reading anything lately that you've loved? I, you know, I get recommendations all the time. I just actually last night downloaded a Kindle sample, which I haven't looked at yet because a ticked, a booktoker that I like recommended it yesterday. But I can't remember off the top of my head the name of the book. And I literally, I can look it out. Go for it.

Okay. I downloaded the sample last night and I started reading it. I got a new Kindle, but my Kindle's in another room. I got a new Kindle on Black Friday, my very first Kindle. So, which is very exciting. It's a game changer. It is. Yes.

It really is. So hang on. I'm just going to pull this up. Yeah. I love the bookshowers. I just literally downloaded the sample. What the wife knew. Gaird just finished it and said,

It is amazing. Okay. All right. I just derby came. Yeah. Yes. It just came out yesterday. All right.

Well, as I said, one of the big book talkers I found. Yeah. It's like, get this now. Yeah. So I downloaded the sample and I was getting really addicted. And I have a thing with thrillers. Yeah. If they suck me in, I can go without a whole night of sleep.

And I will just read the whole thing all night. So I had to put it down. I was like. You will lose a night of sleep. Yes. I'm so glad he liked it. He said it's amazing. I think he said, because he loves a lot of her books, I think he said it's his second favorite now, which is like.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So now I, like, literally, we just recorded the episode where he said that last night. So this is like within 24 hours I've heard about this. I'm like, now I need to read it. We will not, we'll all be reading it or something. Yeah. So that's next on my next list. Yeah. The book this year that really stuck with me, though, that has kind of sat with me for a while is the god of the woods.

Yeah. It's got it, it won by so much on good reads votes wise. It had a depth to it and it just kind of like settled into in me. And I've thought a lot about it since. Yeah. It's very. atmospheric too. Yeah, you like feel where you are the whole time. Very much so. I think that mom's family owned a camp in that. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't realize that. That would make sense. Yeah. I didn't remember seeing that like when I first started, when I first opened it. Yeah. Yeah. That one, I think that one's going to stick around on the charts for a while. Definitely. So, but I'm excited to read this recommendation. Now hearing that you have heard the same thing that it's fantastic.

I know. I just started John Fram's The Brightlands. That's what we're reading for our book, our backlist book club this month. It's really good so far. It's solidifying how much I like John Fram's writing for sure. Nice. It's always wonderful to have, you know, just books. look forward to. Yes. As you love. And it really is great. It is. I agree. Where can people follow you

if they don't follow you already? Oh, yes. On Instagram, Sageet Schwartz. I'm on TikTok, Sigeep Writer. I've been getting more and more active on threads, which is the same handle as Instagram. I've been there a lot. Yeah. They actually were down today. all of meta was strangely yeah that's weird that's for a lot of people i don't know if they've resolved it but um those are places where i i've been mainly at i you know i deactivated twitter a long time ago so i don't have that so it's just yeah instagram threads and uh TikTok i have a blue sky account i have not started posting on there yet i haven't either i created one It's hard to keep, you know, I have a lot of social media accounts.

Yeah. Well, you and I have stayed in touch on Instagram. So we'll tell people Instagram works. And I also have a website and people can subscribe to my newsletter. So it's Gugefords.com. And I have a newsletter that goes out periodically. I do not inundate people's. Yeah.

With it, I really only use it to announce things. Yeah, totally. Well, I will put those links in the show notes. but thanks for stopping by again. Thank you so much, Kate. I always love chatting with you about books, TV shows, film, writing, all of it. All of it.