Bookwild - Small Town Secrets: Amy Engel on I Did It For You

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

This week, we talk with Amy Engel about her newest thriller I Did It For You, out July 25!Follow us on Instagram:Gare @gareindeedreadsKate @thegirlwiththecookonthecouchAmy @amyengelauthor Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hey guys, welcome to the Killing the Tea podcast. This is Gare and Kate. And we are going to be discussing all things, chills, thrills, and kills. Kate and I are going to be talking about our favorite books, TV shows and movies that are in the thriller or crime fiction genre, as well as some reading habits and other items related to how we met on Bookstagram that will fit in with this podcast. So thank you so much for, joining us and we hope that you have fun and get totally terrified. Miss Amy, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yes, we are here to talk about one of my favorite reads of the year. Yes. I did it for you. What a stunning cover, by the way. I know. They did a really nice job with the cover. It's so amazing. Yeah. I'm obsessed. We were like sand girling over the cover, like before either of us had copies. Yeah, they, they did a really fantastic job. I love it. I have been, so I write for like, she reads part time and they were like, you need to do something big for like summer 20, 23 because there's so much coming out and like legit almost missed my deadline because I was like

staring at this cover so much. Like I downloaded it on my phone and was like looking at all the detail in it. Like the bottom here is like, oh my God. They nailed it for. For sure. Oh my God. It's so beautiful, but like so haunting. Yes. Which really is our vibe. So. Oh, yes. Absolutely. Like, give me like bleak and terrifying any day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm also a huge fan of The Familiar Dark. I was going to say this one is not as bleak as some of my other ones. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So do you like in your own words want to

tell people what this one's about. Sure. We usually don't because we've both read it. And once we get started on a book that we love, like we don't stop. And then we're like a little nervous about spoilers. So we're

We figure you have this down pat. I can just give a little quick spiel. It's about a woman, Greer Dunning, when she was 16, her older sister and her sister's boyfriend were murdered in their small town in Kansas. They were shot to death in the car where they were making out. And the guy who did it was convicted and he's recently been executed. And after his

execution, there is a very similar murder back in Greer's hometown. And she always had questions, not so much about whether the guy who was convicted had actually committed the murder of her sister. but she just never felt like that was the whole story. Nobody ever knew why he did it. And she always felt like there was something more going on. And now there's been these similar murders. So she decides to go back to her hometown. Her parents are really struggling.

They have been ever since her sister's death. And so she decides to go back and just sort of revisit it all and see, see if she can piece any of it together. So that's the quick synopsis. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Like you crush that. So what? Yeah. What was your like first idea for this book? Like what was what like hit you first and got you going? Well, I mean, I always set my books in the Midwest because I'm from the Midwest. So I had the town sort of in my head. And then I was trying, you know, I know there have been a million books about a woman who goes. back home to sort of look into a murder. I know that's nothing new or, you know, it's been done a lot.

But I have, I was a criminal defense attorney for 10 years before I started writing. And I've never really wanted to write like a courtroom drama, but I wanted to pull some of the things that I learned and experienced during those years into a book. And that's sort of what started the idea percolating in my head. You know, the man who killed her sister has been executed. And I worked on a death penalty case. And it always has stuck with me. And so I wanted to include some of that.

And then just observing when I was an attorney, there's always so much sympathy for the family of the victims as there should be. but the family of the perpetrator is sort of either ignored or even, you know, people score in them or act like they're the ones who committed the crime. And so I really wanted to look also at that, like the way that a violent crime affects the family of the perpetrator as much as it does the family of the victim. And then, you know, the other thing, and this is a controversial thing to say probably, but I represented people who done horrible things, but most of them weren't horrible people. And I think there's an idea, especially in the media, that everyone who commits a crime is just this monster. And of course, there are people like that. But a lot of people have just made really bad choices. And they're still have something worth contributing to the world, even if it's from prison. So I also wanted to look

at that idea that, you know, we're more than the worst thing we've ever done. And so that was something that I wanted to explore in the book, too. That is such a cool answer. Like, I was not expecting it. And then everything you said, I was like, oh, yeah, I see where that was in the book. And like, oh, yeah, I totally see that. Like, you do feel so empathetic for everyone involved. Like I could tell that you were trying not to like black, make anyone black and white, basically. Yeah. And that's, and I've always said, I don't know whether that's why I became a defense attorney or if that happened when I was a defense attorney. But I have a really hard time seeing things in black and white. Almost everything is sort of gray for me. And so that definitely leads into my writing for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can definitely tell too because there's there's so many layers between like the plot and the characters and and like you said, like how the families affect, you know, are affected. And one of my

favorite things that I like, Kate is probably so sick of hearing me say this, but like one of my favorite things with crime fiction right now is this, this whole thing of how, you know, in the media, a lot of times they pay more attention to the killer than the victims. Right. And with your book, I was like, this is amazing. The way that you gave a voice to the killer and the way that, like, the media does, but you honed in so much on the victims, who they were, who their families were,

like what was left behind and, like, the psychological aspects of that, that I was like, this is like the best time to be a reader in crime fiction. Yeah. Because of stories like this. I definitely, yeah, I wanted to really get into the grief and the guilt that Greer has and the effect it had on her family, you know, just sort of blowing her whole family up and they've never been able to put the pieces back together.

Because I do think with crime victims and, you know, the families of victims, there's sometimes this idea that, oh, well, once someone's convicted, you have closure and then everything goes back to normal. and that's not true most of the time. There's, you know, long-term effects. So I wanted to look at that too. So, yeah, it's definitely not a book where I'm like, oh, the killer's, you know, so great. But I wanted to sort of show the humanity and the suffering on both sides, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

And I love how you showed how it affected the killers family as well, you know, and how people are like, you know, can't help being related to somebody. You can't help, you know, who you're related to and, you know, who's under your roof. But at the end of the day, like, they didn't, you know, do anything to deserve how people treat them. And it's, it's something that I think people brush over a lot in crime fiction. So, um, I actually think I remember telling Kate, like, when we were reading it, I was like, I am so invested in all of these characters. I am so, like just taken by this story that like I keep forgetting why I'm here. You know, I keep forgetting that there's this question of is there more to the story and if there is, what is it? Because

the way that you tell this story was so good when it comes to like basing it around these characters in this town too, because your town almost plays. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely would say I'm more of a character-driven writer for sure. Yeah. Which, you know, that's not everybody's cup of tea, but that's just how I've always, those are the books I gravitate towards reading and that's how I write. It's always, it always starts with the characters and flows out from them rather than starting with the plot and flowing from there, if that makes any sense.

Right. No, it really does because I feel like one of the things I noticed, I think a lot of the stuff that I was highlighting with Greer was like like her parent depicting how even both of her parents dealt with it completely differently. Like they weren't even dealing with it the same as each other. And she's dealing with it another way too. But she was a kid having to like have her parents feeling this way. And I feel like the whole time you do feel, you feel really sad for their family. Like you can tell that everyone's like coping the way they can, but that it did just, it like does cause wounds when something like that happens. Yeah. And they, they're all coping in

their own way. But like you said, in their own separate bubbles, like nobody helping each other or communicating with each other at all. Yeah. Sort of prolongs the agony for everybody, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I, one of the things. that I loved about this one that I don't think that you see a lot in stories like this is the contrast between the families of the previous victims and the victims, you know, in the present timeline. What was that like writing the differences there? Well, I, you know, I don't outline at all when I write. And so my mind's blown right now. My mind's always blown when people say that. I know. I know. It's always so funny too because it's always a story like this that somebody

said, oh, I didn't outline. And here I am thinking that there's like a wall in your house somewhere with like 5,000 post-it notes. It's like this has to be online 32 on page six because like you would think that you would, but that is amazing. Sometimes I would, I do. But so sometimes, a lot of times the characters just kind of show up for me and I don't, I don't really know. who's going to show up and what they're going to bring to the story. So I didn't consciously go in thinking, okay, I want to show all these different reactions to grief, all the different ways that people could process this or not process it. They just sort of came to the page that way. And, you know, like you said, the parents of the more recent victims definitely have different reactions

than Greer's family. And even like Greer's or sister's boyfriend's mom, her reaction is different than, you know, anybody else's. So, yeah, I don't know that I consciously thought about it. They just sort of presented themselves that way, which is probably not the answer. That's incredible. No, that's like amazing.

That's amazing. I'm always like curious how the mind of a crime fiction writer works because everybody's so different. So for someone to say to us, this character kind of is the one that told me like where to take the reins that I was just like, that is insane. And I love everything. Magical. Yeah. Yeah. No, if I, you know, if I'm writing and I, this scene just will not come and just will not work, that's usually a sign to me that I'm, taking the character or the story in a way that it's not supposed to go. And then I know I need to backtrack and figure out where I win and then start from there. And usually it'll work itself out. So, yeah. I love that. That's so cool.

Has there been anything in like the media, like whether it's, you know, a true case or if there was anything like a movie or television show that like helped you think of this story? This story. I'm trying to think, I don't think so with this one. You know, I've had that happen with other books, but this one, I don't think there was anything specific that that made me, like, you know, decide on this story. It just sort of came to me. Yeah. In the past, things have. there's so many aspects to it that would play off so well on screen you know like it just the the couples on like your lover's lane you know is like presented so well in different movies and then with like your book it's like this whole different beast in itself you know instead of being a cliche you know

in a way yours just like has this very bleak um dark tone in it that you don't see in, you know, a story like that that starts off. Because usually it would be like, you know, like the Zodiac movie or there was this old one. I mean, well, I'm old, but there was this old movie when I was in, there was this movie in high school that was called like Cherry Falls. And there was like a scene where it like started off kind of the two kids on that were doing. But just the way that you wrote it. Like I remember reading that scene and just like having to take a minute because it was so, like heartbreaking and you sprinkled so many of those scenes throughout the story. But I just think that was something that showed up after I finished my first draft. I was like reading through and I

thought, you know, I really wish there was a way to hear from these people who are not in the story. And so that's when I decided to put those little chapters from everybody's point of you, including the towns at the very beginning, which, yeah, that was just, because I think it's sort of like what you said, a lot of times in crime fiction, you know, the victims are already gone by the time the story starts, so you don't get to know at all. Yeah. Yeah. Through what other people say about them. So I thought I would just, you know, sprinkle a little bit in so people could know them a little more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely love that. Um, because, because like I said, like it's kind of something that you see often in like movies. And I'm a huge

scary movie fan like to a T. But I always like say, you know, how some of them are so unrealistic because I'm like, you know, if you had two teenagers who are murdered in your town, like your whole town isn't going to be like, oh my God, who did it? Like what do you think like of this person? It's going to be like they're mourning and they're angry and they're sad and there's like things left behind after you find out who it is. It's not credits roll and everybody moves on. So that part of the story was like very, very effective for me. It was almost like if somebody took like the ending credits of the movie scream and you took over from there. You know, like you kind of, you kind of show like what this town goes through and what these families are left with after like the big crime is

solved, you know, because the media kind of moves on. Yeah. You know, like nobody cares anymore except for everybody that's kind of left over. Yeah, for sure. I'm just obsessed with that. I could talk about this all night. I'm so like I love this book so much. Yeah.

And there's like so many reveals at the end. I'm not going to mention any of them. But did you, so like if you kind of like the characters talk to you, did you know like the end, like where you're. were headed with it? Did you find that out? I didn't know where I'm trying to get to. Like, I usually know the beginning and the, I won't say any spoilers, but the,

the two reveals towards the end or the two bigger ones. I think I had an, I had an idea about one of them from the beginning. And then the other one came pretty early on. So I started putting little, if you would, you read it, you would say, see where that's sort of threaded through. Yeah. But yeah. So I did know those two pretty early on.

Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, because I felt that way. I was like, oh, now I remember some things. Yeah. Yeah. There's that. Along the way.

I love how you mentioned that because when we finish this book, Kate said to me, like, now I really want to go back. and see if I can pick up on some of these things because we were both so surprised at the end that like she was like, I wonder if I could pick up on some things if I like went back and reread this. Yeah, I think you. And I have to be like dragged away kicking and screaming because like the minute I finished it, I was like, I want to start this all over again just for the whole like experience of it because I just, I loved so much of this book. And I'm always like blown away with how cinematic your writing is.

Like everything to like piece together. And I could like picture all of it. And it wasn't hot. I love that. It was not. Thank you. No characters were sweaty and we're so happy. I don't know if you guys ever read

Rown Out girls. That's my first adult. It's summer in Kansas. It's just sweat from beginning to end. Oh. But no. But yeah. It's funny.

You said that because when I write, I, you know, I have other writer friends and we talk. When I write, I see it like a movie as I'm writing it. And so I'm just sort of describing what I'm seeing and what they're doing. So, yeah, that's how I see it in my head as I'm writing also. Yeah. That's so cool. I can definitely picture like the gazebo. Oh, yeah.

That is like something that stuck out to me so much because I was like, oh, my God, it just looks so cool. and I want to be in there with them and just like hanging out. But like that, that part and then a few things for the end, which I'm not even going to say the location because I have such a big mouth and I'm not going to spoil anything. I'm going to be so good. But I will say going back to what you said about like threading little hints

through from the beginning, you know, it's always a balance. Because I feel like books that don't do that at all, I always feel kind of like they're cheating when I get to the end. Yes. That's how I feel. You didn't give me anything to hear. And so it might be more shocking, but that's just me. So I really wanted to make sure I put some things in there. But it's, you know, it's a balance because you don't want to make it so obvious. But yeah, those little tidbits in there that at the end. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, I remember that. So. And that's why I'm blown away that you don't plot because when I was reading this one, I felt like I was. being like in my mind I was like going in different directions at the end of each chapter like I was like I think I know what's going on here and then like the next chapter I was like okay I was wrong there

like I should not be a detective and then like each chapter I was like oh my god like where am I going like why can't I like piece this together you know what I mean like I was so like I knew what was going on and I was so invested but I was like Garrett like you listen to true crime podcast before you go to bed, like your comfort show is Law and Order SVU. Like you should be able to like kind of have like an inkling as to what's going to happen here. And I wasn't. But you dropped those little, those little nuggets of information as like a hint. But then you had like the twists in the end. But they didn't seem far fetched at all. Like it was just kind of one of those things where I'm like, oh my God. Like I should have picked up

on something here. Or I should have like noticed this. But like, like, Like you just don't because your characters are so believable. Thank you. I mean, if it makes you feel better, I wouldn't even necessarily call them twists, you know? I mean, to me, like a twist, you know, a big twist is like, I don't know if you guys ever read Shutter Island or something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Everything changes. Yeah. So, you know, I would love to write a twist like that. I don't know if that's really in my wheelhouse or not, but, you know, I, more like reveal. So you shouldn't feel bad if you like pick up on on them. It just shows like how strong of a writer you are. And I think the reason I use twist instead of like reveal is because like I said, there were a lot of times in this book that I was like,

oh shit, I'm supposed to be solving a crime here. You know, I'm supposed to be like putting the pieces together to like kind of figure things out. But I was just so invested in the town and the characters and this amazing cast that you built that I, you know, was just completely immersed the entire time. Like from the very first page, I knew this was going to be one of my favorite books of the year. Well, thank you. I mean, as a writer who really tries to work on characters and character building, that means a ton that you were invested in them.

And, you know, yeah, I can't ask for more than that. I will say, neither can we. Yeah. Out of every book that I read this year, your book was the easiest for me to build my dreamcast for on Instagram. Like it was just so easy because I was like, oh, this is like this person and this is that one. And so yeah, your character is definitely like jump out at the pages of the story. Yeah, maybe someone in Hollywood will.

Yes. I will tag anyone, anyone, anyone I can to get this because like it would be so, so, so good. a movie or like a mini series. I feel like it could be a mini series. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Because like I feel like you can like spend more time with one character in many series sometimes.

Yeah. They've definitely got. There's a lot going on with everybody. I'll say that. Yeah. I would love like David Fincher to produce. Oh, I know. Right.

Wouldn't that be amazing? That's what I like picture when I read it is like just like the way he like what he did with Gone Girl. You know what I mean? Or like mind hunter. Her and that. Just like the grittiness of the Midwest and then these like beautiful scenes as well that you had

because there's like there's so much that when you're reading it, you imagine like something peaceful and beautiful and like, you know, like cozy. And then there are other times that things are a little like stark and like scary. Yeah. And then you have the gazebo. I want to be in charge of the gaze. And then there's a gazebo.

There are some Stars Hollows vibes. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like somebody gets murdered and like Gilmore girls. Yeah. Like, oh no, there's other things lurking. Yeah. If you wanted to make this like a movie or a series, do you have anyone in mind for Greer?

Gosh, I don't. Because when I'm seeing it like a movie in my head, it's always, it's never somebody famous. It's just I have her in my head. I can picture her, but I don't. Yeah. Picture her as anyone in particular, because then I always think I'll start giving her, like, the mannerisms of that person.

That's a good point. You know, so. Oh, yeah. Just Greer. She's not, you know. Why, do you guys have somebody you think? I do. I didn't think of anyone.

Mine's like 10% of the time I have someone, but Gare always has someone. Who do you? Mine's, um, Victoria Pedre. ready. Did you watch The Haunting on Hill House? Yes. Oh, I love her. Yes. Yeah. And she was in, I think, like, the second and third season of you. Yes. Okay. Yeah. She was a lot. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's like 100% my career.

Yeah. I can see that. Yeah. She's so, like, pretty and she's tough and she can like just nail all of those, like, the full range of human animals. part yeah yeah yeah that's my that's my that's my that's my that's my career i've been like crossing my fingers i'm like i don't care if i get the whole rest of the cast wrong but like that is my yeah now i'm going to picture her like that so yeah no yeah that's one i agree yeah i would love that would be a good one well what we always ask people at the end is if they like what have you read recently that you loved or watched really anything um well i just finished season two of the bear on hulu got the chef and i loved it it was so good um i read people are always laughing because i read like dark stuff and then i read really light stuff and i read um i'm trying to think the last

thriller i read i should have i keep a list have to be a thriller. I'm trying to think the last couple of books. Oh, it came out a couple years ago, but in my dreams, I Hold a Knife by Ashley Wendstad. She, she loved her. Yes. I recommend that one to everyone. Like, if you haven't read it, you need to read it.

Yes. And then I'm rereading because, you know, my inner, like, 20-year-old fan girl, I'm rereading. red white and royal blue because the movie is coming out. It's like, if you guys ever read that? I just read it like a month ago. I love it. Oh my God, it's so sweet. It's so sweet, but I'm rereading it because the movie comes out next month.

So I wanted it to be like that. So those are like the two that I've read most recently. I think, and they're both rereads. I've read them both before. Like sometimes you just need those comfort books where you're like, I know what I'm going to get and it's going to be amazing. I think so. Yeah.

Yeah. I completely agree. Oh my God. Those are like two of my favorite books. I know. I think we need her as another co-host. Oh, my God. And she hates this summer.

Yeah. You hate being hot. Like, oh, my God. My mind's just blown away. Those are like two of my favorite books. You wrote this thing. Oh, my God. I'm obsessed.

And. I'm glad you guys had read those that I mentioned because, yeah. Yeah. people like the same books that you like. Yeah. It's so fun. It's so funny too because like I'm always like telling Kate, like I either want like the darkest thriller or like the steamyest,

cutest like male male romance I can find. So it's like red, white, and royal blue and then like something like this. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm so happy. I go back and hold. Yeah. You guys are balanced. Yes, exactly. too dark.

Right. Right. Yeah. Oh my God. I love it. That's amazing. That is great. Well, I hope you enjoy the movie when it comes out.

You'll have to let us know what you think. Yeah. I can't wait. Don't forget to buy your copy of I did it for you. July 25th. Go into your bookstore, buy a copy for a friend, stare at the cover. Get inside and have your mind blown. Thanks guys.