Bookwild - Strip Clubs, Power Dynamics and Storytelling: Nic Stone's Boom Town

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

This week, Gare and I got to chat with bestselling author Nic Stone to talk about her adult debut thriller, Boom Town—a gritty, sexy, and socially sharp story set in Atlanta’s iconic strip-club scene. Nic opens up about her path from YA to adult fiction, the inspiration behind Boom Town (and why she wrote it before anyone else could), and how she approached portraying sex work, power, and autonomy with authenticity and respect. We also discuss banned books, Atlanta’s strip club culture, Nic’s dad’s unforgettable reaction to the audiobook, and the sheer joy of writing complex, powerful Black women. Check Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mba 

This week, Gare and I got to talk with Nick Stone, who is the author of many young adult books, but her first adult fiction, adult thriller, is Boomtown, which Gare and I both were obsessed with. We loved the voices. We loved the characters. And the ending is fantastic. You are going to love it. This is what it's about. When Damaris Charm Wilburn, a new daytime dancer is missing for her shift at Boomtown. Former headliner Micah Lyrich Johansson, suspect something more than a no-call-no-show. Because Lyric's former headline partner and lover, Felice, Lucky, Carruthers, also vanished under similar circumstances,

and Lyric decides she's going to find them. Delving deeper into charm in Lucky's disappearances, Lyric uncovers a tangle web of deceit, privilege, and power. The line between friend and foe blurs, forcing Lyric to confront the question, is finding these women worth the threat to her own? own life. It is so good. It is so fun. The way that Nick wrote about sex work was in a very positive and empowering perspective as it is for many women who do choose to do that and men

and anyone. But we had so much fun talking to her about what made her write this. It's a great story um her favorite parts about writing it and her favorite parts of strip club culture at atlanta so that being said let's hear from nick so many burning questions i'm just the happiest to be here this is the best monday of my life oh my guys it's so exciting it is a really good way to start a monday i know 100% so this monday i am with gare but we are also with Nick Stone to mostly talk about Boomtown, her adult debut thriller that Gare and I were both, were, are all of the words obsessed with. So I am so excited to talk with you. Me too. This is very exciting. It's great, like writing things for grownups and

then getting to talk to grownups about it. It's great. It's just spectacular. I bet. I am just so beyond amazed that this is your adult debut. Really? Yeah, yeah. It reminds me of my favorite Issa Rae quote when she's talking to Zendaya. And it's like, what does it like to wake up in the mirror or look in the mirror every day and like realize that like these other bitches can't compare? Because this is, I mean. Base drop.

You got to have the. That was amazing. I wish I had a, oh, I do have a microphone to drop, but I don't want to like damage anyone's ears. It's beautiful. It changes colors there. Let's keep your pretty microphone. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, I just cannot believe how fantastic

every aspect of this story is. And like, I read it two or three weeks ago, and I still think about it every single day. Yeah. We keep talking about the ending. Oh, this is so, like, it makes me feel amazing.

You are amazing. Well, to like officially kick us off with questions um kind of like a two-parter at first i always want to know like how you came to writing like what your writing journey um was in general and then also in your case like what drew you to young adult at first and then what what was it like shifting into writing for adults yeah so i i loved to read as a kid but I never saw myself in anything that I was reading, right? So like once I hit puberty and I recognized that I lived in a body

and it hit me that that body looked a certain way and that my skin was a certain color and I realized I'd never saw anybody who looked like me or anybody described like me in books, I just kind of like reading lost its favor for a while. But eventually, like I had a kid and I wanted my kid to have a different experience than I did. So what really kicked it off, kicked off the writing bug for me, was Veronica Roth's divergent of all things.

That trilogy was my first time seeing a black girl on paper that I felt like I could actually relate to. And she, and I've told her this to her face. I'm like, I don't, I would not have become a writer if not for Christina. in divergent because it helped me to see that like, oh, wait, we can, black girls can exist in these spaces. Black kids can exist in these spaces. So I wrote a book that no publisher wanted to buy, so I'm publishing it myself, just waiting for them to deliver, which is really exciting. But that book was called Little Spark and it kind of kicked off where it kicked off the writing

thing. And it was YA, I think partially because at that time, Obviously, the first book I saw myself in was a YA book. And then the other piece of it was like, at that point in life, I was like truly beginning to understand my own adolescent, right? So it just kind of fit that when I got started, I would be starting in that space. And then I realized I'm an adult. So here we are. And I like adult things.

and I go to adult places and you felt like writing about adults let's go to the strip club I love strip clubs I know I do love the jump from like I mean I'm sure some of your why I would be maybe more PG-13 but going like straight to the strip club

from there I love the juxtaposition there you know I get banned a lot that's what I was going to ask about to you no reason at all so it's like here here's something here's something you keep banning me here tab this have some boobs yeah i saw one of your reels where you were talking about getting banned frequently um yeah without giving it too much like importance or anything what like what has your what was your experience like with that it's just stupid like i remember

the first time I got banned was 2019. I had just had a, my third YA novel had just come out and I found out from a teacher in a county here in Georgia that Deer Martin had been banned in her district. And like, I was like, what?

Like, it was just kind of, first I was like, but, but it was real. And it's been happening, that was 2019. It's been happening for six years. So like, okay. Yeah, yeah. It's so unnecessary.

It's always by people who don't read, too. That's the best part of all this. It's like, oh, you're an idiot. That's why you're banning books because you don't want anybody to be smarter than you are. Yeah, or like read about any experience that isn't the same as your own, basically. Do they give you like a reason? Like, do they try to justify it in any way, shape, or form? There are times when they do, but only when asked.

Like, I remember the first time it got banned. The woman who banned it, who will be unnamed, because she does not deserve the energy. Fun story. And then I'll get back to the original story. She retired after that school year because everybody was like, what are you doing? But now she's on the library board and trying to get my books pulled from the YA section. It's like, bitch, you are so into me. It is wild.

Like, just be a fan. Just admit you're a fan. like we can totally hang out i'll teach you some things i'll take your ass to the strip club like oh my gosh but every time she was asked why she abandoned she gave a different reason and it was very clear from the way her answers changed that she hadn't actually read it right my gosh it's ridiculous that's insane well and it's crazy too that it i mean it's not crazy yet because it probably fits with everything about education in this country in general but it's crazy how it's the way a ones that get banned like i'm not going to say that boomtown wouldn't get banned but it's probably

not going to get that kind of attention but it's not an high school right yeah like for a lot of the a lot of these way books the ones that get banned are the ones that parents hear about through the great buy most of them most of the band books at this point books typically get banned due to some perception of sexual content right so like it's not even like it like the past few years the top the books at the top of the band list were typically books about like either bi-pox or queer people and like that has changed now the top four or five are all straight white people and there's some sort of sexual supposedly sexual content in the book and I'm like bro what I don't are y'all just repressed like I don't at some point a kids but I have a 13 year old

like his body's changing like he notices things around him right and I'm like to keep shame onto young people for having bodies that function the way that they're supposed to is wild to me yeah yes yeah like oh you don't want your kid to know that his peepee like stands up and I don't understand I you know it's fine okay yeah yeah Yeah, like they're eventually going to need to explore that part of their life in general. It's like books are a pretty safe place to do that most of the time. I would think so. Or, you know, the species will just die off because kids don't know anything about sex.

You know? I'm like, okay, that's also an option, I guess. You're 40-year-old virgins everywhere because nobody would talk to you about this. Yeah. Yeah. It's just wild to me, too, that like, you're banning bugs. because of, like, any sexual aspect to it. But, like, some of your most popular TV shows and movies of the dawn of time

are about teens and sexuality or sex in general. Do you know what I mean? Like, if we treated movies and TV shows the same way we treated books, we would have never met anyone in Euphoria. American Pie would have flopped, you know? Oh, my God. Can you even? Could you imagine American Pie and a book? No flutes go.

anywhere except where they're supposed to no no like ruin ruin bakeries forever do what you got to do but like nobody is going to i'm just it's just like wild to me that that is such a crazy like opposite when it comes to what's popular in like tv and movies majority of which adults are watching right so like your majority like adult audience for like even like teen comedies and things like that how many women are thirsting over these teenagers in the summer i turn pretty grown women. Grown women. Grown women, I'm on TikTok way more than I need to be.

Grown women being like, team Jeremiah, team Conrad. And like, let me pull my hair back and like give them five minutes of my time. But then they have a problem in their banning bucks. And you're like, girl, what? Yeah. My favorite, my favorite story to come out of all of this is so Florida hates me, right? Like, I think like four. I think there are four or five.

I have four or five books banned in Florida. And my favorite thing about it, though, do you guys remember that scandal where, like, the co-founder of Moms for Liberty? She and her husband got into a whole big mess because they were, like, smashing some woman. Like, they had, like, some third party that they were having threesomes with, a woman.

And I'm like, oh, okay, so, sure, get rid of all the books about the gay characters, and then go bend over in front of Samantha, you know by all means ma'am yeah that's the crazy part like that comes that happens so frequently which is wild right it's like what what are you so ashamed of like the internalized hate is sad yes I'm like there's so you have so much shame over the things that you're doing you are opposed to other people just enjoying their lives and that's nuts to me and like get get yourself together okay like stop it let's check your priorities here well that's because majority of these women are

concerned about fictional queer characters and children and young adult books and they're too busy banning them to not realize that the noise that is coming off their husband's phone is grinder amen it's like how grinds how grinder always crashes during certain political moments Republicans. It's like, no, just be real, you know? Be real with it. Yes. For real.

The man I had thirst over me the most that I've ever met on Grindr, who was thirsted over me for nine years, picked me up one night with Fox News radio playing in his car. Get out, bro. That's crazy. And I was like, we calling it. Like, it's his name. He's Fox News now. Yes.

Yeah. Mr. Fox. Oh, sad. It's so sad. I'm like, there's so much freedom in just accepting yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't act like we're going on a picnic when you voted for Trump. If you're an author who's listening right now, I'm sure that sometime recently you thought to yourself, I really just want to write and I don't want to have to think about social media. The good news is I have a couple of solutions for you. If you just need help brainstorming,

and building out posts and Canva, my monthly consulting might be good for you. If you're about to publish a book, I can help you with a book trailer. The other option is accumulating a content bank of both long and short form content that can be used now and generically into the future. I love reading your books, and I know you don't love figuring out how to post on social media, so I would love to help. Follow the link in the show notes to learn more. I will say, just so we don't, just so we don't.

give them in all of our time. Boomtown is not sexually repressed. No, no, no, not at all. So, I mean, Gare and I were talking about the men, the women. We're talking about everyone the whole time. Did you have an idea in this? Like, what was the idea that came to you first for this one, basically? So what's interesting about this is, I have a colleague, like, I wouldn't call us friends, but like, we're both writers. And she and I were talking one day. And she randomly, she is not black. She randomly one day was like, I think I want to write a book about a black strip club in Atlanta.

I was like, no, I got it. Not really. She's from like outside the city. But it was just one of those moments where I was like, I don't think you've ever actually been in a black strip club in Atlanta. So maybe don't do that. Yeah. Um, so I decided I was going to write it before she could literally. Like, like, no, ma'am. But now I'm like, okay, go for it. And people will be able to see the real versus it. It wasn't even spite. It was just like, ma'am, you will not. I'm sorry. Yeah. Like, this is not a spain principle. Yeah,

on principle. And it's one of those things where I am all four people. Like, please, right outside your experience, right? Like Tony Morrison is very clear on it being necessary to write what is not the self, right? And also, to me, it was really important that the first thing of this kind come from a person who matches the demographic of the dancer. Yeah. So cool. If you want to go write one now, by all means, I already did it.

So we're good. Yes. And like, why did she feel so comfortable telling a black woman, like I'm going to write about a black woman in a strip club because like me because I mean the the novel um real easy by Marie Rakowski is oh god I love that novel it's one of my favorite books in the entire world I love it I love it yes and like written by a white woman featuring white women in a strip club yes and nobody you know what I mean like you didn't have to like you said like write about something that you're not experienced in.

It's just like mind-boggling to me. And you can. Look, this is not me saying you can't. Just know, I'm going to have to do it first. So now you're good. You good? Go for it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't think, I don't think anyone's going to match this one if I'm being honest.

I mean, I hope not. No. No. No. Yeah. I love. Yeah, we obviously loved it. Even like me, I've never been to a strip club ever.

Oh, honey. Come on down. I got you. I need to go to a blanchee. If you ever sent the bat signal that you wanted somebody to hang out with and you were just like, will you please just like come hang out with me? I will be there in like a jiffy. Honey, the way black women love gay white men. I mean, like, especially the ones like you, it's, it'd be some gay white men that have, they clearly have a whole black woman living inside them somewhere.

And so we like, come on, friend. Come on, sis. it's so funny it's so funny that you say that because my my friend shelley she's black and every at least once a week i hear you were black in a previous life i didn't know that's a highest compliment my friend well like i like send her like music like old school like 90s rmbi that i grew up on your music tastes for sure and i'm just and she's like what do you know about any of this like what do you know about any of this like what were you doing listening to s w v At seven years old. Sisters with voices, you know, sisters with voices. So, yeah, no, I think, I think, I just, I want everyone to patronize black strip clubs because the women deserve it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you also, like, are writing it so that, like, like, I've never been to a strip club, but, like, I felt very comfortable in that space. Like, I knew exactly what was going on. You know, like, I knew exactly, like, what I could see, what the vibe was like, you know, like, you, you wrote it so efficiently in the sense of, like, there are no questions as a reader as to, like, what you would be witnessing if you were, you know, in this space. I love that. I'm glad that you, I'm glad you feel that way. Both Boontown and Atlanta are, like, characters in this book.

And every time somebody says that, I'm like, yes, I did it. Yes. Yeah. I did it. We did it. Yeah. Yeah, it was a vibe. We were talking about that, too. Like, it's, like, it's, it's gritty in a way that almost feels like noir is also what we were kind of talking about ahead of time or just like right before this. But, um, also I don't know if you've read essay Cosby's books, but it also has not Southern Gothic. Yeah. Kind of like, not tragedy every time, but like those vibes. And I, I became like, an essay Cosby fan over the last year so now like sometimes I'm reading books and I'm like oh this fits in that vein but it was it was gritty you feel like you're at the strip club you you definitely get a feel for Atlanta as well like it yeah it is very immersive and I listened I listened and read angel peen is like my favorite narrator of all time and I also just got into

audiobooks in the last year but like standing the test of time I haven't found a anyone that I love. Actually, Bonnie Turpin, though, is like probably number two. Like, it's amazing cast, but it was all, it was all super, super immersive. Like, they ate down on that audio book. I listened to the audiobook. And I know what's about to happen, but I'm like, in the car, like, what's going on? It's like, I know, but it's just, it created a totally different experience. And I loved it. It was weird listening to my own voice. I've made myself not skip that part, but just because it's like, you need the whole story. Yeah.

But it was so fun. So fun to listen to. Yeah. The audiobook's fantastic for anyone who is a listener. I'm going to get the audio book now. You need to. I've only listened to one audio book in my entire life. And so I know that like this is going to be the one that's going to like keep.

Now I'm like recommending the really good ones. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. yeah because like this this baby has like come everywhere with me and like oh busting mine is mine is all on here yeah i love it i've like randomly just like flipped to like random pages just to like remember like what i was experiencing when i read that part yes that's amazing guys you're making me very blushy that's what we're here for yeah i mean you have me brushing a few

times i'm not going to lie my dad is listening to the audiobook so imagine i know i saw you're real where you're like realizing my dad's listening to this too and i was like oh no he like called me to talk about it and i was like this all right we're going to a new level dad all right here we are support level though oh it was amazing and like yeah but it was wild because like he called to tell me that he was like you know i feel like this audio i feel like this audio book this boomtown is helping me heal. I was like, helping you heal? And he starts telling me about how there was a week in his life where he almost got fired from his job because he took off for five days straight and sent him at the blue flame. And I've now heard all of these really great stories about my dad

and his strip club shenanigans and like his relationships with dancers and like it really has brought us to a new level of a relationship. And I love every minute of it. But like my dad has He's always been, he's always been just very human with me. Like he's never been a person to hide, what he calls his shortcomings. He got sober when I was nine or so, 1994. So it was like right before I turned 10. And, you know, he's been sober for 31 years. And he's just, but he used to like take me to his AA meetings and like, so he's always been very grounded.

He's always been a source of grounding for me and taught me everything about self-awareness and boundaries and how to do relationships in a way that's healthy. Like, my dad is everything. So, yes, I was very, it was cringing significantly when he told me he was listening. But then when he called to like talk to me about it, I was like, oh, damn, this is okay. And my mom read it and I was like, oh, God. But my parents seemed to really like it. And I mean, I guess I got here somehow.

So there's that part. I just love the way it starts off as like a funny story of your dad listening to it and then turns into like a very earnest and like healing like you're saying the best compliment you can get from like one of the most important people in your life absolutely oh wow dad that's crazy thank you yeah that's powerful I haven't gotten to the point where I'm like hey do you want to go to the blue flame with me because that's, I don't know if I'm going to care. That might be a little bit different.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe with book two. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. The next.

Probably not. My mom, I could drag my mom just because it would be freaking hilarious. Like, it would be hilarious taking my mom to the strip club. I have not been able to talk her into it yet. There are a few things I wish I had. I have yet to be able to talk my mom into, but I am determined. I don't blame you. Marijuana edibles have not talked her into it yet.

However, I am determined. Determined. And strip clubs. Those are the two things. Yeah. Pot gummies and strip clubs. Let's go, mom. Come on.

You can pick up my parents because they will definitely say yes to potgummies. Oh, see, I love that. I love it. 100%. For the bomb. I mean, your parents and pot gum. gummies in general. Yeah, they're, they're magic. My parents are like that. I love that for you. I try to be that for my kids. I'm telling you right now, I know for if I know 100% that you are.

Oh, thank. My nine year old, my nine year old son, uh, decided he wanted to read Boomtown. And I was like, all right, bet. Is he read it? He is, but he has no idea what's going on, which is what I expected. Right? Like it's, yeah. So much of it is a metaphor. And so this is another thing, not to get back to the book bands, but it's one of those things where I'm like, metaphor does not equal sexual content. In this book, obviously, there is overt sexual content, but like me saying that a black woman is thick as butter with skin the color of the inside of a Ferreira Roche. Like, that's not, that's not sexual content. That's description. So it's just, and so he's, and so my son is reading, he actually is in that he's doing a book club with one of his four. great classmates who did finish and pulled me aside at a birthday party on set.

I'm not, this is truth is stranger than fiction. Okay, so she pulls me aside on Saturday at a classmate's birthday party. And she says, I finished her book. And I said, oh, did you? She said, yes. I said, well, what did you think? She's like, I loved it, but I have a question. And I said, okay, she said, why did you have to end it on a cliffhanger?

And I was like, but did I? She's like, yes, I need to know what's happening with Lady Josephine. And so I'm like, okay, I will need to figure out what happens with Lady Josephine so I can tell this adorable nine-year-old what happens with Lady Josephine. I was going to see where she's coming from. I was going to say, at first I thought I was going to laugh. And now I'm kind of like, I'm on her team. You know, there's a consensus.

Like, everybody really loves Lady Josephine. and, oh, you know, about Lady Josephine. I loved her. She was the first, I do, like, the, the dream poster on, like, Instagram when I read a book. So, like, I'll, like, imagine what the poster would look like if it was, like, adapted. And then I do, like, a dream cast. And Lady Josephine was the first character that I was, like, I know exactly who I am casting, like, 100%. Who?

Who? Tell me, tell me. Adina Porter. Ooh. I like it. Adina Porter. I'm right at that. Yeah. I'm going to tag you in it. I'm going to tag you in it. Please, if you do it, invite me to collaborate. If you do it, invite me to collaborate. I will 100% well. I will 100%. It's like one of my, it's one of my, like, proudest works is my poster. It's really good. I can't wait. I can't wait. I had the most fun with it. Oh, that's amazing. Because I just, I almost like, now I'm kind of like the wheels are spinning and I'm like, maybe like Lady Josephine can just pop up in all of your adult novels.

you know how like authors have like have a cameo in the next one yeah like authors have like their easter eggs where like their books are connected and like she could just kind of be the the bond that ties them all together I'm not mad at that I had a I did a book club meeting last night like I went to a book there's a book club here and it it was the most insane thing I'd ever seen in my life like it was at a pole dancing studio it had the entire room like like I'm like like just the attention to detail um and the women at that book club have essentially demanded that i write a short story collection about lady josephine oh that would be cool and i said fine you guys have to give me the tell me the stories that are going to be what are the stories so you guys giving the stories

and i'll write them so i'm like partnering with this book club so we're going to see we're going to see if we actually pull this off that is cool i would devour that i would think a lot of people maybe would. I'm I've been hearing about and there was someone I was talking to who's thinking about doing it um like using substack for that so like some of the characters that people really connect to you can like still essentially do short stories um even on substack basically is what I've been hearing about too and I'm like I do get that because sometimes you're like even side characters that aren't like the main characters sometimes you're like I wonder what happened with them so it's kind of cool as an option.

it's kind of like there was like this novel I read I can't remember the name of it but it was about a woman who was murdered and every chapter is somebody that was connected to her like a side character of her life and I thought it was like one of the most interesting ways to tell the story because you don't get anything from her you get it from like every perspective but it's it wasn't like your typical novel where it's like two or three person POV it was like literally every person in her life like down to like somebody who like had a crush on her from afar and never spoke to her. So it was like wild the way that that that story was told. That is very cool. Yeah. So I would definitely read short stories of Lady Josephine. Yes. Same. Duly noted. What? So one of the, oh, go ahead. No, you go ahead. I know. I won't stop at this point. We'll be talking, we'll be talking each other in a bad. That's, I know. Take the ranks. I know. It was like, dark outside already probably um you know one of the things that i thought was like or really stood out is um sometimes people write uh about characters who do sex work and it's like it's like

only that it could be a sad story or only that they just happened they they have to do it even though they don't want to and i enjoyed how we talked about like boomtown feels like a character itself is a setting so like the club itself feels so real but also there's not like this underlying pity for any of the women either and you're kind of able to then like look at like why do we think that like sexual assault can't happen in in that regards just because they're sex workers so how did you approach balancing all of those things um lots of interviews and heavy, heavy, heavy bedding. So, you know, Boomtown is loosely,

there's a lot of Boomtown that's kind of based on Magic City here in Atlanta. There's a documentary about Magic City on one of the streamer. I don't know which, I can't remember which streamer at the moment, drawn a bit of a blank. But like Magic City, Magic City dancers are, they make a lot of money, right? And so it was important to me to make sure it was clear. that these women are not to be pitied. Like, they are walking in full autonomy,

not at all times, but, you know, as much as they can. When bad things do happen, they get to decide how to deal with it, right? Like, there's no script for how a woman deals with the sexual assault. And I did a lot of research and hung out with a lot of dancers, lots of conversation and then I had got it vetted by like a PhD level black feminist who's the head at the head of the Women's Center at the University of Virginia like it like I'm very meticulous about authenticity right because it is a topic that's easy it's not only easy to

fumble as a creator it's also easy to reinforce harmful stereotypes if you're not careful. So it was important to me to make sure these were full, that they had full lives. You got backstory. Honestly, then being dancers was a bit of a macuffin. Like, it just provided the setting for the terrible things to happen. Because in every other way, they're just regular people. Yeah. With mortgages and history that is triggering and health issues and yeah. And pregnancy. Like, there's, they're normal, regular people. yeah I know well that's the thing too is like when I was reading it I was like you know you read the synopsis and whatnot and then you get ready to read the book and you're like oh like this is

you know a missing person they're strippers and then when I was reading it I was like I don't even know why people are saying like this book is about strippers that go missing because like that's just their work like you know what I mean like if you would have had them working anywhere else they would have been like I went into the office I you know know, sent a couple of emails, and then I, like, got out of here because I have a friend to find, you know? So, like, that wasn't, like, such a huge aspect of it. I think it added a lot to the story. And I think it was, like, something that I definitely found very interesting. But, yeah, like, I think the way that you wrote it was definitely, like,

chef's kiss for me. I just want all people to be treated like people, right? Like, if you were a person who has chosen sex work as a profession, and I mean, chosen it, not a person who has been dragged into human trafficking. That's a completely different story. But like if you are an individual, no matter your gender identity, who has decided this is the kind of work that I would like to do to make money, there's no reason for you to be treated poorly because of that. Like I think that that's stupid. I think it's incredibly stupid for us to treat great, wonderful human beings who have the same, most of us have the same range of emotion. There are ways that we can connect no matter how different we seem.

So the job that you choose should not be a source of disdain, especially when it comes to this sort of thing, right? And, you know, it's all rooted in misogyny. And I don't like that shit at all. Like, catch me outside. Yeah, I'm leaving my neighborhood yesterday, right? And there's this man in front of me. And like, I'm trying to get out the neighborhood.

And he just, like, suddenly stops his car and gets out. and he's all like, we have a problem? I was like, I don't know, bro. Do we have a problem? Like, don't turn me up. Right? Like, but it was very clear that even talking to this man, you are under the impression friend that I will not knock your fucking teeth out.

And I don't care what your, and I think it's important that people recognize that like internalized, not even internalized, like implicit misogyny is just as harmful and damaging as implicit racism, right? Like, not recognizing that you are looking down on a person because they're a woman. That's just as problematic as you're not recognizing that you're looking down on a person because they're a person of color. Right. So it was important to me that these women be tough as nails in a lot of ways.

Even the ones, even charm with her super green, naive self, she's been through a lot of stuff and made some decisions for herself that I think were really important. Um, so yeah, just, you know, it's, it's not necessarily like rar girl power, but it's more like, yo, I'm a person. She's a person. She's got you about balls right now, if we're being honest. Yes. So show some respect. Yes. Literally, figuratively all of it. If you love the bookwild podcast so much that you'd love to be a part of a book wild community that gets early episode releases and no ads in the episodes, you need to check out my book. Wild Patreon. If you don't know what Patreon is, it is a social platform where you can have

exclusive content and community, all in one space that isn't Instagram or YouTube. There are two tiers, and with the first tier, you get every episode a day earlier than the public with zero ads. And the second tier is Book Wilde's Backlist Book Club. When I started this, I just was not reading as much backlist. I had gotten into the net galley rut of only reading what was about to come out and I was like there are so many other books I want to read. So every month we choose a backlist book. We read it and then we come together at a certain time and discuss it on the weekends. It's really so much fun and I would love to see you there. Signing up is easy. Just follow the link in the show notes. And it's definitely like your characters are so well drawn out

because they all are fucking tough as nails. Like, The baddest women you are going to read this year are in Boomtown. But you also, like, showed a little bit of, like, what triggers each one of them that, like, humanized them so much for me. And I'm, like, I'm like, are we sure this is fiction? Like, are you going to, like, there's going to be this, like, huge announcement one day that, like, lucky lyric and charm are all real? you're gonna come like the curtain's gonna drop and you're gonna come out and they're all gonna be like surrounded by you and we're gonna be like no this is this is a real story that was told to me because they were just all like so they were all like I know right that would be amazing but I mean it just was like every character was so well drawn out and written like I could just like almost like picture them even like your smaller characters you know like you had this like you had like the sassy trans bartender who like took no bullshit from anyone and guapa like guapa like the comedic relief for me yes which automatically i was like if we if we adapt this

can we please have ciza play guapa oh my god i would love that because i i am just like imagining the god what what video is it is it shirt is it the end of shirt where she's on the stripper pole upside down and it's like a library that she's in? Maybe. I don't know. I'd have to look. It's either that or good days. I know it's one of the two, but that's just like immediately what I was what I was picturing. Because I love her. I think she's great.

She's, yeah. There's like a couple of people in the book who are pretty heavily based on real people. Dr. Shambly is a real person. And she is dreamy. AF, like, I'm obsessed with her to the point where I was like, hey, I put you in a book. You should love me. I totally have moralized you in fiction. I'm obsessed with that.

Yeah. And there's another person I won't mention. So I have to be, like, careful about, like, what I do say, because I don't want to get sued. Fair. We're there with me. So, you know, you change names. it's like, okay, as long as you change the name, you can't get sued. Right.

But if you make confessions on podcasts, you can. So let's not. But Dr. Shambly's really great. And very, very real. That being said. One of my favorite characters. Yeah. Yeah.

There are only like, obviously two, there's only like, obviously like two, maybe two, three characters that I was like, I would not want to hang out with them in real life. But, I mean, 90% of your cast was. and spot on spectacular I love them so much yeah did you like when you went to write it which actually I do always ask if you are a plotter or a pantser or a hybrid but did you know like did you have the like two POVs in mind like as you went to do it did you like play around with more POVs um and yeah basically how did how did you land on that I'm a hard core plotter, like I outlined to the gods.

And there were always multiple points of view. It's just that who they were changed, right? So I think I was in my final revision when I was like, you know what? Every single voice in this book, like every single prospective character needs to be a black woman. That came late. There were in earlier drafts, there were chapters, like little interstitials from talking. Thomas's perspective, that I will be releasing online as bonus content, waiting for my beloved partner to fix the website.

I'm like, can you fix this? Can you hurry up, please? So I can tell people it's there. But yeah, I'm really, I think five. I think I'm releasing like five deleted scene type thing. Three of the five are from Thomas's perspective. No, actually, I think four of the five are from Thomas's perspective. but like you'll be able to slot in what like if you think about the book you'll be able to

figure out what went where just read the book again or just read it again i'm certainly certainly not opposed to that um but yeah so it was it's always been non-linear right because like i don't know how to write a straightforward book like even if you go through my if you were to go through my Kidlet catalog. I think there are three books. No, not even those are straightforward. I was going to say, I've written some books for Marvel for Marvel comics, and like even those have some sort of like diary entries or something in it that kind of breaks up the forward motion. But I mean, it's partially just like I get bored when I'm reading things. And so I can't write anything boring because I won't finish it. It shows. I just, I don't, I want, I really like, like,

one of my favorite things in the world is when somebody's like, oh my God, I read this in a day. Yes. I know. Some authors, I've had a few authors that are like, I spent all that time and it took you a day. I'm like, it's a compliment. That's the best compliment in the entire world. It's just the greatest thing ever. Like, that's what I go for. Like, I want you to not be able to put it down. That's a good thing. I was, I was pissed when it arrived. because my book arrived during the week. And I was like, I can't wait. Like, I can't, I'm not going to wait for the weekend, right, to read that.

Like, I need to, like, have this in my, and I started out on, like, a Monday. And I was like, son of a bitch. Like, I think it was like two, two and a half days, maybe three. But I was like, I will say as somebody who can binge a book in a day and I would have, I would have devoured this in a single day from somebody who was forced to not be able to read it a day. Yeah. I will tell you what, I was thinking about this baby. Yes. When I was trying to go to bed at night. I was thinking about it like while I was at work because I was like, I have to catch up with my girls. Like, let's wrap this shit up. Get me out of here. I love this. I was going to

Taco Bell because I was like, I'm no fucking way I'm cooking dinner tonight. Like, I'm going to get something. Give me my burrito supreme. Okay. I have things to do. I'll tell you what. The best combination in my life is Boomtown and Taco Bell. Okay. That was like, okay, but what from Taco Bell, because now I'm going to have to go get Taco Bill. I'm a vegetarian. So, like, I'm a little... Okay. I get the cheesy gordita crunch, and I replace the meat with potato.

Potatoes? Mm-hmm. Huh. A cheese cassidia with a jalapeno sauce always hits. I don't think I've ever heard the vegetarian liking Taco Bell. This is wild. It is... You love Taco Bell.

I'm obsessed with Taco Bell. It's like a minstay of this podcast. Well, dang. I will be their spokesperson, but I actually think that Taco Bell is the best fast food place for a vegetarian, because if you order online, you can substitute the meat for anything that you want that's vegetarian. You heard it here first. So you can do black beans, you can do potato, yeah, a black bean chalupa. Yeah. The grilled cheese black bean burrito is like.

current fave i'm not a vegetarian but there are lots of times that i just like don't want meat so i do eat a lot of black beans oh god i love meat meat meat's great yeah yeah i don't when i crave when i'm craving it i'm good but sometimes i'm like black beans works for me right now i went vegan for a minute and my ass fell off and i was like nah man we can't not worth it nope this can't do this anymore mine's still there so you didn't eat enough potatoes we're not going to be out there we're not going to be out here looking crazy

I can't uh-uh you just needed Gare's potato-based Taco Bell my ass has not disappeared maybe that's what I needed but I was just like looking back like look back at what it went

where is it I was so upset I was so upset and so then I literally the next day I ate a steak like I was sorry like it was over absolutely subtitle of this episode is

like the dangers of veganism how veganism will keep you off the pole because this doesn't work oh my gosh oh my god there's just so much to talk about with this one

I just be the best I love it we've got all kinds of range here in this episode. We love range. Yeah. Like a like a stripper with a master's degree in education. Right. Which is like the like it's obviously that's like a stereotype some people bring up is like paying for college with that. But like how amazing is that? I mean, hello, no student loans. So I have a friend named Misty and when I met Misty, she was dancing her way to her master's of social work. And like,

and she loved it. She loved every bit of being, she was like, I just feel it made her feel powerful. And I'm like, I really want people to recognize. Like, a lot of these women are not suffering.

There are some who don't love it, which is, so lyric in the book is actually based on, I was a personal trainer in my early 20s and I had a pair of clients who were erotic dancers and one of them was lyric. And I remember her telling, telling me about how, like, she had to be wasted in order to dance, right?

But she also just wasn't willing to give up the money. Like, she was like, but also my mortgage is paid. I got this nice-ass car. Like, I'm good. I just, I've got to have my three shots ahead and see before I get on stage. Yeah. Just like any other job, that's like the thing that seems out to me too. There are some people who love their job and there's some people who are like, I like the money.

And that's what I do for it. Yeah. A hundred percent. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And also, like, if you have the kind of job where, like, in order for you to get through your shift, it just takes a few shots. Like, some people don't have that.

You're not driving. I can't do three shots of tequila at eight o'clock in the morning before I sit down at my desk. So good for her. I mean, you could, but I don't recommend it. I don't think, no. My boss would be like, he'd be like, you are a lot nicer than you usually are. You are a lot nicer than you usually are something. Something in the buttermilk ain't clean.

I read like things like prohibition and racism-based drug laws just really screwed us over royally. Like I think about how like, because yes, obviously there are people who when intoxicated are not great, right? They are awful. And then there are some who are very happy when they're a little tipsy. Like there are people who parent way better when they have a little THC and they're something. system it would be I mean dog mom I can handle like better they're so my kids are so fascinating when I'm in on a cloud somewhere and like and they love it they love when mommy is happy yeah yeah for me the way it helps with overstimulation is massive in someone else's

experience of me like I'm a much calmer person than I'm actually like more in my body in that case than out of my body. I agree. Yeah. I get, I get whatever the Delta 9 is that's legal in Indiana thing. Oh, no, I can't. I can't do the hemp-based stuff. It's all illegal.

It's all illegal over here, friends. Yeah. Keeping it real. Well, I'm in New York. So if anybody wants to come visit. I know. I need to come live with you. And the air quality is better.

Like all of it. I can't handle New York. It's too much, Fray. You got that. No, I'm upstate. Oh, you're upstate. I'm really against the Canadian border. But then it's cold.

And your girl does not do cold. We don't do cold. Yeah, that's. You get, I get, we get to 50 degrees here. And I'm like, oh, God, I have to go outside. Yes. I kind of get that way too I've got my car has seat heaters

I'm indigenous so there are on the reservation there are probably like 20 different places we can stop to get you whatever you need and then I'll get you some Taco Bell and you want to go see Canada we'll be there in 15 minutes

girl let's go this is amazing you're welcome anytime you and I need to go to Atlanta and then she and I will come to you in New York. I can, there are two. If you bring me to Atlanta, I don't think I'm coming home. There are two strip clubs.

I have a strip club within walking distance of my house. Okay. And mind you, I'm in Buckhead, right? So like Buckhead is like very supposedly fancy or whatever. It's like, no, I can walk to allure. It's right there. And then there's another one right down the street. That one's called Onyx.

And you're going to see really big booties at Ony. it's amazing. Wonderland. They're Wonderlands. The most, or is it just jokingly the most strip clubs? Like, basically it's known for how many strip clubs it has, right? Yeah. I mean, well, like, and like specifically black strip clubs.

Yes. Because there are definitely cities that have far more strip clubs period. But like black strip clubs, this is like the black strip club mecca. Yeah. Of the universe. Like not the club. not the soul, the universe. The universe. Yes, yes.

But also, like, the most, like, with, like, the most famous ones, right? Definitely. That you know by name. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Because they're in all of the rap songs. Yeah. They're in the, they're all the through the music. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that documentary way going way back. As you say, it was Magic City.

Magic City. Yeah. It's on sling. I did look it up. Oh, you did? The Magic City Documentary. I'm taking it to know where it is. Because I just I just have to do it. Now I'm trying to think of like What's the strip club? What's the name of the strip club that's in that

Chloe Bailey song with Chris Brown? Let's see. You looking it up? I am looking it up. Okay. Follies? Follies. Follies? Yeah.

That's where I did all of my promo, like all of my like me on a pole in cards and camo pants. That's amazing. Looking like a whole looking like somebody's mom. Yeah. That's all it follies. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

I love that. There was, I just interviewed someone who like he's a comedian who also like wrote a book about Christian nationalism to like shorten it down really far. but because he was a comedian some of his book tour was like at comedy clubs and like it was like seeing like what you see with like a book event or a book launch event

but like they're like little books laid out in a comedy club and I'm like that's so creative to approach it that way and then like the next week I started seeing your promo and I was like this is just the year of people doing cool book launch it I get a little out of the box man

because I mean look a part of this is me wanting to attract people who don't think reading is cool. Like in the young adult space, my kind of bread and butter is books that kids who don't, who say they don't like reading like to read. Because, you know, I think you just have to find the right book. It's like people that you don't, it's not that you don't like reading. You don't like reading boring things. If you are handed something that keeps your attention, that's a whole different story.

So a part of Boomtown is for like reluctant adult readers, just like my kids books. or for reluctant kid readers. Yeah, that's such a good point. That's amazing. I wish we would, you know, not ban books so much at that, like, middle, back to that conversation, middle school, high school level. And, like, we don't, like, I, I just, I'm getting so worked up. I can't find my words.

Like, not everyone needs to read Dastoyevsky. Like, I don't, like, we could really swap out these, like, classics that we force on. I mean, who actually does need to read? And what's the other one? The one who turned into what he turned to like a praying mantis. What is it? Metamorphosis. Kafka.

Oh, yeah. I don't, what am I? What are we? Okay. Everybody does need to read Shakespeare. That is one that I never want removed. There are certain plays where I'm like, okay, we really need to read this one. But just when it comes to like the art of story, nobody did it like that man.

That man had like wittiness. Just so good. so good yeah um but yeah some of the other contemporary stories you know a fair well they like reading more basically is right right and it's like you can right you can hit these same themes in books that are not endlessly boring right like if they want to read it later as adults for the sake of being well read go for it but i feel like we'd have more chance of uh we're not we're not like intellectual elitist reading over here in case you can't tell I'd be like bro what why I got to do this I remember reading I remember I remember I remember reading Lord of the

flies my junior year of high school and the whole time I was like my black mother would just take a belt to every ass in this book yeah these boys need an ass weapon is really what like is how I wanted to like rename it because I just now mind you there were definitely books that we had to read in high school that I actually enjoyed like I love the great Gatsby I thought that book was great oh yeah I love to kill a mockingbird I love to kill a mockingbird is incredibly cleverly written and I like what it stood for right like this is a book published in 1960 about racism yeah been heavily banned since it was published and yet still is you know the great American Read and on curriculum lists everywhere.

So it's not necessarily that, like, books that are banned are, they all get pulled. And it's the worst thing ever. Like, now it's a little tricky because books are getting banned before they even have a chance to, like, find an audience. But at the same time, you know, some of the best stuff is stuff people didn't like, the powers that be didn't like. And so there's a part of me that's like, yeah. Yeah, ban me.

Yes. More people are just going to read it, haters. Yeah, because there is that, like, even for me, there's a feeling of, like, oh, someone banned this. Well, I want to know. Yeah, the curiosity aspect. Like, now I want to know more. Yeah. And the fact that people think that they're going to like, I'm like, you feel that way.

Like, parent, you spent so much. so much time doing shit you were told not to do what makes you think your child is going to be different like it's a thing that just as even as a parent I'm like my kids I don't yell at my kids to go off on my kids for doing shit that I did or that I would have done like my job is not to like tell you to like I used to hate I remember being a kid and I would hear from like adults all around me do as I say not as I do no No. If you want me to do something, do it first. Let me by example.

Yeah. And that's my thing with my kids. Like, I'm not, I'm not about to tell you to do something. Like, I can't get mad at you for your room being a mess when my room is a mess. Like, I'm just not going to do that. Like, I need to set an example. And until I do, I'm just going to be quiet about it. Yeah. I, I, so when are you running for president? That's what I was going to say. Like, absolutely not. Definitely not. I do not. I do not. want that job at no point ever. I don't either. I don't blame you.

I don't know why anybody would want it. I don't even. I don't blame you for not wanting it, but I want somebody with the same outlook and values as you to do it. I lately have been like, am I going to pay my taxes next year? And I say that because this country was founded on no taxation without representation. And bro, what are you doing? What are you doing with the money that I'm having?

Like, I got to write a check every year. So if I'm writing checks, do you, what do you know on my money? Throwing great Gatsby parties that missed the point. You're not representing me. Yeah. Oh, my God. And this whole ballroom thing. In the bunker underneath it.

I'm like, look, I get it. Okay. It's not coming from taxpayer dollars, but it also actually. But that's still weird too. But not, it also is. Because at the same time, we're talking about. companies that can make these massive donations to a 501c3, which means those donations are tax deductible, which means this money that would have gone into the federal government does

not. It goes into your ballroom. So it's all in there together. I really, I really want, I'm trying that to rant. I'm trying. No, please do. I'm trying. I just want, God, I just want more people to study civics. Like, what does it mean to be a citizen of a country? What does it mean to be a citizen of this country. What are your rights? How does this thing work? This thing where you feel this compulsion or you got people taking money out your check because, you know, that can start to like the mid-20th century, the idea of federal taxes being pulled from a check as opposed to having to pay them, like pay them automatic, like they get pulled automatically. But there are so many things that we've just gotten used to that we don't question. And this to me

is the age of questioning. And I want everybody to question everything. Like everything. that feels weird? Yep. Question that. Ask yourself, why does it feel weird? Yes. Yeah, don't just get uncomfortable and look away. Yeah.

Please. Please. Because, I mean, you could, but you're just going to stay uncomfortable. Like, right. Like, I guess if you want to stay uncomfortable. Yeah. I mean, we need to be a little uncomfortable. It has to be.

Like, there's no growth. You don't grow if you're just. comfortable all the time. Like, it should make us feel uncomfortable. All of these people who don't want their kids reading books about people who are different from them, I'm like, you're going to feel real different when your kid is 43 and lives in your basement because you never let them see anything else. They never got exposed to anything else.

Yes. So if you want to play God for your kids, don't expect them to leave your little kingdom, right? Like, come on. Right. And that's the thing, too, is, like, my, my, my, parents when I was growing up they gave me money for the book fair whatever and then whatever I could not find in the book fair like when we walked into a bookstore they were like whatever you want to read it like I'm buying it for you know like yeah read the fucking book if you want to

I was probably 12 or 13 maybe when I first got the book American Psycho And I was like, I want to know, like, what I want to know what the hype is. I want to know why people like, won't stop time. My mom was like, then get it. Get it and read it. If you don't like it, then give it to someone else. Don't finish it. Right.

Who cares? Yeah, you don't have to finish it. And also if you have questions, you can ask me, right? Like, when it comes to my son, my fourth grader, I'm like, bro, if you're going to learn about sex work, why shouldn't it be from a book your mom wrote that's well researched? Like, of all the ways to learn a thing, I'm glad. that you're going to learn it from me because essentially that's what you're doing if you read this book and like I said most of it's the metaphor it's going to go over your head anyway

yeah and there's like I mean I was like I was probably like 13 or 14 when I read a density of souls by Christopher Rice and that was the book that well that was the one that turned me into a reader because I was like this is my first time reading queer characters amazing you know like there's no queer characters and like fucking goosebumps you know like no there's not there's not there's not there's not I was, like, hoping, you know, when I was, like, reading, I was like, I think the funny going on to here. Right.

Hey. But, like, that was my first time reading, like, queer characters. And I was like, oh, my God, like, this is opening an entire world for me that, like, was not accessible in my small, upstate New Yorktown. So. How old did you say you were? I think it was, like, 13 when I read. I didn't see queer characters.

I didn't see until it was, like, 17. when I read the color purple. Mm-hmm. And Shug Avery, Honey, is a hero. Mm-hmm. A hero. I don't think. But no, the book that, like, really grabbed me was here by Michael Crichton.

Like, it's like dense, hardcore adult science fiction novel about some alien spaceship crashing on the bottom of the ocean. Like, I don't know what it was about that book, but I love that book. I still have my copy of it. Oh, that's true. And I read that when I was 12. Oh. And it was like right before I was like, oh, wait, I live in a body and it's brown. And there are no brown people in anything I'm reading.

But sphere was kind of like one of the last ones I read where I was like, oh, this is cool. Yeah. I feel that way about sci-fi sometimes too, where I'm like, I couldn't tell you why I got so obsessed with this, but I did. It was suspenseful and weird and like it was warping their brains and there's something about warping brains that I find incredibly appealing apparently yeah I felt that way like maybe I think like 13 14 that was like my performative years but like I remember we used to have like in my English class you would have I think like every Friday you would just read for the entire class like you bring in whatever book you wanted to read and whatnot oh I love that it was so much

fun it was like I like look forward to every Friday And my English teacher would, like, go around and talk to all of the kids about what they were reading and, you know, if they were enjoying it. Oh, that's really great. And she was, she was the reason that I'm a reader. Like, she was the most supportive English teacher I had ever had that I can ever imagine. And she, I remember her coming up to me and she was like, you are going to go far with life because of your reading. And she was like, I'm not knocking these other kids. but like you're reading interview with the vampire

and everyone around you has a Harry Potter book in their hand like everybody's everybody's reading things that are like trending or popular and you're reading about like the vampire the stat you know and I was like I was that was like the best compliment

that I ever received for like just her being like read whatever you want that interests you and it like if nobody else is reading it it makes you more interesting Yeah, agreed. I love that. Yeah, my 10th and 11th grade English teacher, Mr. Week, Dear Martin, was dedicated to him. Like, there's, typically there's, I find that when I'm talking to young people,

if there is a teacher that they love, it's typically their English teacher. Like, I've had a couple be like, oh, my math teacher, but from what I've heard, a lot of the time, it's the English teacher. Yeah. All of my favorite teachers were my English teachers. I had a couple of like math teachers that I really liked. Really just one. Yeah.

Yeah. I didn't like a lot of my teachers. I didn't like a lot of mine either. Yeah. Nope. I did not like a lot of my teachers either. But I had the best English teacher in the entire world. And the best thing was I had her as a freshman.

And they decided that she was too tough grading freshmen. So they moved her to only teach seniors. So I had her my senior year as well. Yeah. Yeah. I had my sophomore and junior year. I had the same teacher. That was nice when you liked a teacher and got...

That's having twice. Oh, it was great. Yeah. That's amazing. I think I liked my history teachers the most when I was just thinking of that. And then I was like, kind of surprised. I guess I hadn't thought about it. Oh, that's interesting.

I know. And now I'm like, I think I have two history teachers that stand out. So I don't know. I don't have two in the... Bruce. My neighbor's dog is barking, so. Hi, Bruce. He says hi back.

I think Murphy's like somewhere in the background. He's not adjusting well with daylight savings and thinks that he needs to eat earlier. I only have children. You what? I said I only have children. Oh. We only have dogs. No, I do actually.

I have a lizard. She's pretty great. It's the only other woman in the house. What's her name? She's a bearded dragon. She's snooting too. How long have you had her? Three and a half years.

Wow. Yeah. Well, she's not barking. She's not interrupting. She doesn't want anything to do with us, that's why. And she doesn't really make sounds. Yeah. She would probably shit on the table, though, if I took her out.

That's what she does. When she gets mad, that's what she gets mad, that's. she doesn't protest. She just like toothed up her butt and like I'm like really is that what we're doing? And she'll literally look you dead in the face and be like what you're going to do about it? Like a toddler. She won't eat anything that's dead so I have to get live

crickets, live worms like she's She has standards Refined palette She's not hunted. Clearly Yeah. Yeah. Well I mean I think we could all probably talk for hours and hours, but we should probably wrap it up. I'm sure my children will be here any minute. Do you, I have one question. Yes. Because I, I'm like always curious about this,

but like, would you jump at the chance to have this adapted into like a TV series or a movie? Or is this something that you're like, I don't want people stepping into like something that they have no business in? No, the right people I would love to, I would love to see it done, but it would have to be done by the right people. Would you rather see it as a series? I feel like it would probably work better as a series. Just because, largely because of the suspense structure. Yeah.

I would love to see as a mini-series. I would love to see it as a series. But like, whatever. What do you guys want to do with it? I could also see it as, I went to a book club meeting in Brooklyn last week. And there was a woman who said, do it as a series, but not a mini series. I was like, how do you not do it as not? She was like, the series is Boomtown.

And so you can have the events from the first book as a series, as a season. But then like, you just follow other characters in subsequent seasons. And I was like, okay, no, I like it. I would love that. I would love that. Because I was going to say, like, with Lady Josephine, like, Boomtown could also be your Easter egg that shows up in every single book that you write. And nobody would get sick of it.

Yeah. I like that too. Nobody would get sick of it. You know, and you could like play because like the way you write your characters and their connections and like the things that you mention like you're so fucking intelligent when you write that like people are going to catch on to these things when they're reading, you know, future novels by you. But I would love to see it as a series. Thanks. I would 100% love to. And you have to be in charge of the soundtrack. Oh, absolutely. Because I my favorite. I'm my partner. My partner. My partner. partner is like so killer with this with like the music stuff who was the one that picked skin by riana oh me definitely because that is one of my top five favorite songs in the entire world that song is everything the last time i heard skin just kind of randomly i was in a skating rink like it like it like turned into a brothel instantly but everybody's rolling like literally it's like a rolling like i'm like how are you guys grinding on roller skates this is wild that is and it was very cool it's such a great song I've had fun having conversations with people about like

like yeah I looked up Toby Diesel and I couldn't I was like Toby Diesel's not real songs that are real by real artists and there's shit that I made up and it's fun when people can't build a difference but like that is so funny because I was thinking that when I was reading it because I was like I was like oh my god I haven't heard some of these songs in a while I was, like, making my little, like, playlist, you know, like, for my, like, throwback playlist that I have with, um, and then I was like, you know, you have, like, a fictional artist, fictional DJ.

And I was like, there are going to be so many people that are searching. They're going to be so, they're going to be so best. They're going to be like, they're going to be like, I found this, like, random country singer on YouTube with four followers, but I can't find the song. And I'm like, because it's not a real song. But I'm definitely compliment. that you thought it was. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it really is. I hope same old mistake by Rihanna shows up in one of your books someday because that's my second favorite Rihanna song and that is Boomtown Appropriate. Have you heard the original? It actually, she sounds just like the original. I have heard the original. Yeah. If you're going to ask me, I'm always going to pick Rihanna.

Of course. No, I couldn't agree with me agree. But it always shocked. me how closely she's even able to, like, do the notes of his voice. Yeah. Like, I was like, oh, dang. It's the same thing with consideration with Siza. So, like, consideration was originally a Siza song, and her label was like, no, we want this for Rihanna.

And she was pissed about it. Because Siza wanted it to be her lead single. And then when they gave it to Rihanna, Rihanna was like, well, you can still be on the song with me as a feature. And I was like, I remember when I heard this. that song for the first time and it said featuring Siza, I thought Siza was the producer of the song because of how similar their voices sounded on that song. And then that is how I found out who Siza was was through Rihanna. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's so much like cool music fact stuff that people just don't know. Like the Carter's ape shit is written by the Migos. A lot of people

don't know that. Yeah. Like and then if you listen to the original, if you listen, to the mego's original you can find it on youtube it's just like what like it's just mind blowing it is crazy how like you can produce a song in like a thousand different ways so that's what i've thought about sometimes with music where you're like there's like the first time or the first version that you hear of it and maybe hear it over and over and over and over again and so then if you hear like an acoustic version you're like oh yeah this is that song but like all the decisions that have to be made for the version that gets introduced to the world to have the most impact like yes and how many I'm sure it's like writing too I was going to say it's the same thing as with books it's like ultimately drafts and drafts and draft yeah yeah and you can like kind of see like the different artists that like really take control over things and like change things and think you know what I mean like um yeah REM the song R&M by um Ariana Grande was originally a Beyonce song and you can find Beyonce's version on YouTube yeah you can find

yeah oh my goodness yep dang you guys are going to convince me to listen to music a little bit more than audiobooks god they have to overtaken my listening life so you guys definitely heard all of our conversation with Nick but her I don't know her her her microphone just wouldn't work anymore all of a sudden we talked her year off we talked her year off is what we've concluded basically so this is a harsh cut but she did not make it to the end of the episode with us she's just here in spirit um but the links that she talked about will be in the show notes because i want to read these short stories when they come through me too i'm obsessed and if you can't tell we are going to bully you into reading this book

Yeah. Don't slide into my DMs looking for any book suggestions until you read Boomtown. Agreed.