Bookwild - The Bad Bitches of Thrillers

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

This week, we are talking about thrillers with powerful moments of female rage, empowerment or survival.Follow us on Instagram:Gare @gareindeedreadsKate @thegirlwiththecookonthecouchBooks We Talked AboutNever Saw Me ComingHer Name is KnightThe Weight of BloodDark PlacesHow I’ll Kill YouBone MusicJar of HeartsThe UrsulinaWhisper NetworkStalkerThe Rabbit HunterThe Last HousewifeCarrie Soto is BackLuckiest Girl Alive Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hey guys, welcome to the Killing the Tea podcast. This is Gare and Kate. And we are going to be discussing all things, chills, thrills and kills. Kate and I are going to be talking about our favorite books, TV shows, and movies that are in the thriller or crime fiction genre, as well as some reading habits and other items related to how we met on Bookstagram that will fit in with this podcast. So, Thank you so much for joining us, and we hope that you have fun and get totally terrified. We're back. Back again. So, yeah. Do you have a good week of books? I did. I am.

I read something somewhat mediocre, but like the ending made up for it for me. I read something fantastic, which I'm going to. be talking about tonight because I it's part of our theme theme and then I just started Jackal by Aaron E. Adams. Yes. We talked about that a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's the one about the woman who returns to her hometown for her friend's wedding and previously in this town that is predominantly white, black women and girls have gone missing and been found, like, brutally murdered in this town and the police chalk it up to basically animal violence. Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. So it's like scary and sad and frustrating. I'm getting the same

feels with this that I got when I watched Get Out. So I'm like, oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, because it deals a lot with racism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it's like a female-driven kind of get-out thing because it's not just about, you know, people in the black community and everything that they have to face when it comes to racism and the police being horrible. But also, specifically black women, you know, and we've talked about that as well, how, you know, there's. your beautiful blonde white woman who goes missing. And, you know, everybody's freaking out a half hour after she doesn't answer a text message.

But, you know, a black woman goes missing. And they're like, oh, she's probably a runaway. Or what is the, what is the phrase they use that's like a high risk lifestyle? As if that's a reason to not look for them. So, yeah. It's very good reading week. but very frustrating with this one because I'm just like, I just can't imagine. I know.

How about you? How is your reading week going? Well, I read, Never Saw Me Coming, and was obsessed, like, so much fun. One of the most fun, fun thrillers I've read. They were just like, there's so many things going on, so many things that came together at the end. And there's also something at the end, which isn't a spoiler, to say there is a scene where a female in the book had a very powerful moment. And I love those. And then, actually, I went and saw scream six the next day.

and there were some similarly gratifying, just bloody, angry, but empowering moments. And I was like, maybe this is something we talk about. And then the last of us had something like it. And it was all over TikTok and everyone was loving it. And I was like, we need to talk about the bad, empowered bitches of thrillers. Yes, I totally agree. It's such a good idea. and I also went in Saw Scream Six over the weekend and absolutely loved it.

Which is like really funny because it's the sixth movie in a franchise that I love. But in each one there's like kind of like a different aspect or example of female rage. And just, you know, a horror movie franchise that is started, that has was a sort of. started off by a gay man writing some really fucking powerful women. Yeah. And also today, March 14th is Kevin Williamson's birthday. So happy birthday. Oh, yeah.

I saw your story. Yeah. Happy birthday. Happy birthday to him. And thank you for everything. But, yes, Scream Six was amazing. Melissa Barrera is like my sexuality hall pass. Like, if there's one woman.

out there that could... Beautiful. That could get me to, like, sway in that direction. I think it would be her. Yeah. Same. I mean, oh, my God. I was just watching the movie and I was like,

no matter what she does or what she says, I'm just like, wow, man, you're perfect. Yeah. You're just... Fantastic. I feel about Sidney, too, though. So I can't say that she's the only woman. I don't know.

I love Scream Six and I was like, am I bisexual? Maybe you are. Maybe. Or like you know how sometimes like there, I've seen like TikToks that are like bisexual women are attracted to all women and like two men. And maybe you're attracted to most men and one woman. One woman. Yeah.

It's any man in America except for Donald Trump and that. Yeah. Yeah. There are some exceptions there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Quite a few. It makes me feel like less of a slut. You're like, there's some people I'd say no, too. Just a couple. Yeah. Just a couple.

I kind of have an icebreaker, too. Nice. To get you all amped up to talk about books. And I just had a lot of days. So I'm about to be amped. So if you were given the chance, no matter what you would consider your writing style to be or what you think your writing style may be, if you were to ever write anything, ever. If you were given the chance, who would you pick if you were given the opportunity to co-write a book with another author? Oh, my gosh. Oh, that.

Okay. I'm going to contemplate. Because for me, now I'm like, do I want to do it with someone who, like, I think their strengths would complement my weaknesses? Or do I want to go with someone who's, like, just my favorite of a genre? It's like anybody that you think you could craft a story with, no matter, like, what your strengths and weaknesses would be as a writer or what your writing style is. So, like, say you, say like your writing style was, like, more like Taylor Jenkins read. Mm-hmm. But like you wanted to pick Alice Feeney.

Yeah. You know, like you pick whoever you would like to collaborate with on a story, no matter what your writing style is or strengths or weaknesses. Okay. So I think kind of at least like how I'm a mood reader, if I'm kind of being a mood writer at this moment, I think I would love to write with Yasmin Ongo because she wrote actually a book I'm going to talk about later. she writes a really awesome spy series and I love reading spy series and it kind of made me think it

would be fun to work with someone who had like written action scenes like that and like go back and forth on that kind of stuff cool yeah who would you want to write with Ashley Winsstad that was the other one that I was like of course And then I was like, Yasmin too. Well, I think I just, Ashley Winstead has a very poetic way of writing very gritty and emotional and like crazy intense things. Yeah.

But I've talked to her about things I would love to write. And she's been very supportive and has been like, I'm not just like blowing smoke up your butt. But like, I love these ideas that you have. Yeah. So, like, if I came up with an idea and I wanted to get it to a certain place, I feel like Ashley Winsett and I co-writing together would be the perfect way to do it because she would probably spark some creativity within me and get me to the point where I'm like, oh, I'm going to step my game up now. Ashley just send her chapters in. Now it's my turn to, like, dig a little deep in the creativity. There you go.

there you go it's out there everybody manifest manifest manifest yeah that would be amazing that would be something great to manifest I know but I do have a recommendation from Yasmin of a bad bitch in a thriller and that is

okay sorry the description had not loaded that is Nina from her name is Knight, which is a series. So in the first book, it revolves around Nina Knight, codename Echo, a highly trained assassin for the tribe, a clandestine international organization dedicated to the protection and advancement of the peoples and countries of Africa around the world. Her name is Knight is a propulsive character story and action-driven thriller by retribution, passion, and strength. And coming. to terms with your own true self regardless of what anyone calls you.

It is like there's a little love interest, little, but that it's there. There's like all this fun spy stuff going on the whole time, and she's just a badass. She's amazing. I don't know. You might get me to read a spy thriller one day. This one was so good. There's so many twists. in it and it's also told in like past and present so you're catching up with like what brought her to where she is and so it's really similar to how I think thrillers feel when you're reading them it's just she also has some cool fight scenes we all love yeah um yeah the covers are beautiful too

yeah and yeah and yeah one is so cool she's very cool Well, I don't even have a segue. You don't have a spy thriller? Yeah, I was like, oh. No. Hmm. Speaking of things that could be cinematic. There we go.

My first pick for my bad bitch of all the bad bitches. All of them. Is Miss Maddie from The Weight of Blood by Tiffie. D. Jackson, which is a YA novel that follows a biracial teenager in her Georgia high school that is hosting its first integrated prom. Springville residents, at least the ones that are still alive, are questioned about what happened on prom night and they all have an explanation. Maddie did it. An outcast in her small town Georgia high school, Madison, Washington, has always been a teasing target for bullies,

and she's dealt with it because she has more problems to manage. Until the morning, a surprise rainstorm reveals her most closely kept secret, Maddie, is biracial. She's been passing for white her entire life at the behest of her fanatical white father, Thomas Washington. After a viral bullying video pulls back the curtain on Springfield High's racist roots, student leaders come with a plan to change their image, host the school's first prom as a show of unity.

The popular white class president convinces her black superstar quarterback boyfriend to ask Maddie to be his date, leaving Maddie wondering if it's possible to have a normal life. But some of her classmates aren't done with her just yet. And what they don't know is that Maddie still has another secret, one that will cost them their entire lives. Twisty. Twistie horror. Twisty. Amazing.

Horror. Timely. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's a carry retelling with racial, you know, undertones to it. Yeah. Yeah. So I loved it.

I loved it. You know, and she did this, like, incredible job of making a story that was written and I believe, like the 70s. making it, you know, timely with things that teenagers go through today. But not just any teenager, you know, you're picking not just another story that deals with a specific kind of racism. But this is one where somebody's biracial, you know. So there's so many layers to the story where, you know, I can imagine.

I've read stories. I've heard stories. I've heard things of people going into a school. I went to a very small high school. I think we, you know, we only had probably, I would say, four or five black students at my high school when I was there. Same. And you don't have that position where you're a black student going into a school

and everybody's like, okay, you're black. Here's some microaggressions. Here's some racism. Here's some bullying. It's somebody that they've always bullied. Yeah. And finding out that she is biracial, continuing to bully and having it be something that is even bigger of a deal.

You know, like, she's kind of me. She's kind of what they would consider geeky or to herself and whatnot. And, but yeah, them finding out that she's biracial just sparks even more hate in some of them. And then the other, there are, there's just so much going on, right? Like especially for like a YA book, you have the people that finding out she's biracial sparks more hate. Yeah. Which is sad and like disgusting, but also. Right.

It happens. It happens. You have the people who are self-aware who take a step back and are like, listen, I bullied you when I thought you were like this little white bookworm geek. But because you're biracial, I don't want this to come off in me targeting you because of your race, I'm taking a step back. Right. And then you have everybody kind of in between and the clicks. Yeah.

You know, so really good. That sounds really good. Yes. I love it. But even if you are not black or biracial, I think that there's a lot people could recognize in themselves by reading this book. Yeah. I am not black.

I'm half Native American and half white. But still, I was like, you know what? Like, there were like some things that kind of sparked, you know, because I went to a high school that was, my elementary school was mostly white. And then when you got into high school, the Native American elementary school, those students, would come to my school and start high school. So you might grow up with like a ton of people and then meet like even more in high school. But it was kind of weird because there were a lot of people that were like, you know, well, you're not white because you're Native American. But then some of the the students that were Native American were like, you're not really like Native American enough.

Right. So there's a lot that I kind of like saw in this book that was like, could not pay me to go back to high school. Me neither. Fuck that. It was not my vibe. Do not blame Maddie Washington whatsoever. You're like if I went back to high school, it would be a blood bath. Yeah.

If I had magical powers. Yeah. Could lock all you fuckers in the gym during prom. Watch out. Watch out. Well, I need to add that one to my list now, too. Oh, you would love it. I do have a recommendation that involves things people did when they were teenagers.

Where's my clunky segue? You're like, I have a book about people who've done things. who've been in school. Somebody who went to school in my book. Oh my gosh. And actually, you told me to watch the movie for this book recently

because I had not seen it yet and that's probably why I was on the front of my mind. So my next recommendation after all of that set up is Dark Places by Gillian Flynn. And Libby is my bad bitch. she was just seven years old when her evidence put her 15-year-old brother behind bars. Since then, she has been drifting.

But when she is contacted by a group who are convinced of Ben's innocence, Libby starts to ask questions she never dared to before. Was the voice she heard her brothers? Ben was a misfit in their small town, but was he capable of murder? Are there secrets to uncover at the family farm, or is Libby deluding herself because she wants her? brother back. She begins to realize that everyone in her family had something to hide that day, especially Ben. Now, 24 years later, the truth is going to be even harder to find. Who did

massacre the day family? She's so, she's so tough. She's so awesome. She takes no shit, and she figures some crazy shit out. I almost picked this one. Whoa. So, but like, here's my thing. Every female character you've taken that book is a bad bitch in a different way. Right. Yes, you're right. The mother, the day mother.

Bad bitch. Bad bitch, sad bitch. Sad bitch. Bad and sad. Bad and sad. Bad because she's sad. Right? Libby.

What was her name? What was the girlfriend's name? girlfriend. I know. I can't remember Ben's girlfriend. Ben's girlfriend. Bad bitch, scary bitch. Yes. This is like the chaotic good, chaotic evil classification. She was terrifying. But like also like nothing got in her way. Like she could just walk into a dark alley and like wouldn't give him flying. Deondra. Yeah. Perfect name. So that's fantastic. Because. I'm going to put this in my murder book, but there's this loud-ass, like, truck that keeps driving by my house, like, late at night, and you can hear it no matter where you are. And sometimes it, like, starts down by my neighbor and they were like, and it, like, drives by really fast. I'm going to get my murder book at, like, five in the morning.

I'm putting him in my murder book because... You should. But anyway, he just don't buy it. He's basically asking for it. I'm going to go out there and be like, what's wrong with you? And then that's why I get murdered. Yeah, probably. But yeah, tons of bad bitches in that book.

And the thing that I love as well about Libby is how she went through something so traumatizing. But some of the decisions she made in that book were out of like pure selfishness and survival. Yes. If something like that happened to me when I was a. child if something like that happened to me when I was 35, I don't care. I would not be meeting a bunch of armchair detectives whose only source of entertainment is the bloodshed of other people. Right. Like we're not just talking about you and I who love thrillers and horrible things that happen to fictional characters. This is something that I talked about with the Idaho case. Because I was like,

I was so deep into it because I was like, I'm not going on TikTok and telling people what my theories are. I'm not telling them to like chase down these teenage boys because they made eye contact with one of these girls. Like these are the people that, you know, get in, do more damage than anything. I would not be meeting a bunch of people that were like, oh, we think this, this and this and da da da da da da. I'm like, my entire family was fucking murdered. and I have frostbite on my feet because I was just a little wee angel running around in the winter, barefoot in the snow, hiding from my brother who I thought killed my entire family. Right. So.

Agreed. She was. I think that was the one that, that was the Gillian Flynn book that I thought was the darkest and like the hardest to get through. I would agree. It's very dark. Yeah. And the ending to it was extremely bleak, even for me. Yeah. Like, it had layers of bleakness.

Yeah. The reveals are sad reveals. Yes. Yeah. This isn't like a, yeah. I'm not saying that way. Yep. That's all.

That's all. That's all. That's all. Nothing else to see here. Speaking of thrillers that involve families. I just finished, loved, and cannot stop thinking about how I'll kill you by Ren de Stefano. I'm keeping this in here. I usually skip these things where it's like this riveting, blah, blah, blah.

But like it says, your next stay up all night thriller. Yeah. And I couldn't agree more. The first night I read it, I stayed up until midnight. and I was dead-ass tired on Monday, but like I didn't give a shit because I got like 75% in. But your next day up, all night thriller about identical triplets who have a nasty habit of killing their boyfriends. And what happens when the youngest commits their worst crime yet, falling in love with her mark? Make him want you.

Make him love you. Make him dead. Sissy has an interesting family. Always the careful one. Always the cautious one. she has handled the cleanup when her serial killer sisters have carved a path of carnage across the United States. Now as they arrive in the Arizona heat, Sissy must step up and embrace the family pastime of making a man fall in love and then murdering him. Her first target, a young widower named Edison, and their mutual attraction is instant.

While their relationship progresses, the most couples would be rethinking about picking out China patterns and moving into. together, Sissy's family is reminding her to think about picking out burial sites and moving on. But then something happens that Sissy never anticipated. She begins to feel protective of Edison. And then, before she can help it, she's fallen in love. But the clock is ticking and her sisters are growing restless. It becomes clear that the grave site she chose will hide a body no matter what happens. But if she betrays her family, will it be her?

I ever since you started reading this and loved it I am like obsessively checking my email to see if I get access to it on that galley like all day today I've been like is it there is it there is it there it's not there yet well but you have convinced me I will love it you will love it if you do not get it the good news is it does come out March 21st that's what I just saw I was like that's not too bad I thought it was so I usually like unless the unless our specific thing is like here's some books that are coming out in 2023 that we want to read or like specifically yeah like I usually don't do something like that where I pick something that's not out yet for something yeah but like you're like hey do you want

to talk about like female rage and like badass women and thrillers and I'm reading this book and I'm like you're fucking right I do you're fucking right I do like easiest easiest book to include for me Because it sounds so amazing. Again, your recommendation of Gillian Flynn that I gave you, like, major props on because you had those different women that were all badass and were in a different way, this is very similar. Oh, I love that. There's so many layers to each of the sisters, even though Sissy is the main one that you kind of, you know, follow. But there's just so much and the writing is so beautiful. I've never annotated a book in my entire life. Never.

I'm just like, oh, that was cool. And I keep going. Yeah. But when I was reading this on my Kindle, I was like, fuck, I wish I had a physical copy of this because I want those little, little thin strip post-its that I can put in. Yeah. So guess what? I ordered a physical copy. Of course. And yeah, I probably wouldn't annotate as much if I didn't read digitally because I'll, have to do is like drag the highlight. She's the reason I get excited over debut authors because not only was that fantastic and just like spoke to me in so many different ways, it was dark.

Mm-hmm. The steam was steaming. And there were just a couple of things that really revved my engine. And I was like, oh, I see, I don't blame. you for falling for Edison because I now have to. It sounds like it's just everything. Everything. It's everything. But now I'm like, damn, I can't wait to see what you do next. Me or her.

Both. Well, but I was like, do you mean my next pick? Are you like, come on? No, no, no. No, I mean, like, that's what I love about debut authors is when you read something this good and you're like, I'm like, I can't wait to see what you write next. But now that we've gone over that, what's next?

What's next? What's next to you? What's next for me is another one that you recommended to me last year that I loved. And it's another series called Bone Music. But the series is called Burning Girl. Yes. Did I see one of yours? No, it was just an excellent choice.

Okay. No, just like, get a girl. So Charlotte Roe spent the first seven years of her life in the hands of the only parents she knew, a pair of serial killers who murdered her mother and tried to shape Charlotte in their own twisted image. If only the nightmare had ended when she was rescued. Instead, her real father exploited her tabloid ready story for fame and profit until Charlotte finally broke free from her ghoulish past and fled. Just when she thinks she has buried her personal hell forever, Charlotte is swept into a frightening new ordeal.

Secretly dosed with an experimental drug, she's endowed with a shocking new power, but pursued by a treacherous corporation desperate to control her. Except from now on, if anybody is going to control Charlotte, it's going to be herself. She's determined to use the extraordinary ability she now possesses to fight the kind of evil that shattered her life, by drawing a serial killer out from the shadows to face the righteous fury of a victim turned Avenger. I mean, it's perfect. It is perfect.

It ends explaining that she has righteous fury. So it was just too perfect for this one. So good. And it's not a spoiler to say that the power she gets is that however the amount of fear she's experiencing is how much stronger and like more badass she gets basically. Yeah. And being a woman in these days, it's not, it's not hard to find yourself in a position where you're afraid. Right.

Which is kind of that I forgot until you just said that, how much that's like part of the conversation of the book, too, how that would be useful for women to have access to. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. I love Charlotte. I do too. And there's some sexiness. Not a ton, but it's there.

I would have sex with everyone on that bug. I think so too. They're all amazing. Yeah. And you know, even the bad guys. Are they bad? Some of them could get it. Yeah.

Maybe two of them, I don't know. I mean, yeah. It's a good book. It's a great one. And there are three in the series. Yeah. Which I just burned through last year after you recommended. You were the burning girl, burning through.

I was the burning girl. That's amazing. Speaking of fucking the bad guy. Go on That's perfect Well I mean My girl Gio had sex with a serial killer That's true

So my next one is Jar Hearts It has to be It has to be It has to be If you would have said like Pick one author To talk about bad bitches and thrillers and female rage,

I would have been like Jennifer Hillier because I had to like go through all of her characters are badass women in thrillers who like survival instincts and you know, just all of these things that just make me love her writing.

Yep. To no surprise ever, jar hearts. I mean, I'm going to like go over this very quickly, like three best friends. There's one who's murdered, one who went to prison, and then the detective that's trying to figure out what the fuck happened. Because when Angela Wong was 16 years old, she was one of the most popular girls in school,

she disappeared without a trace. Nobody ever thought her best friend, Georgina, aka Gio, Shaw, who is like basically this badass in the Seattle pharmaceutical company world. they never thought that she would be involved in any way. The one person who was very surprised by that is Kaiser Brody, who was like the third wheel to Gio and Angela and is now a detective. But now we're 14 years later after Angela's disappearance. Her remains are discovered in the woods behind Gio's home.

And Kaiser, who is now a detective with the Seattle PD, finds out that Angela was the victim of serial killer Calvin James, the same serial killer who had murdered other women. And to everyone, Calvin is this bad serial killer who was responsible for all of these women's death. But to Gio, he is her first love from high school. The relationship was volatile, bordering on obsession. from the moment they met right up until the night Angela was killed.

So Gio always knew what happened to Angela and told no one. So she's been carrying this secret for almost 15 years. And now she's arrested and sent to prison. And everyone thinks they kind of know the truth, but it's just basically scratching the surface. Now the obsessive past catches up with the present. when new bodies begin to turn up, killed in the exact same way that Angela was killed. So that is jar of hearts.

It is creepy. Creepy. Twisty. It's amazing. There's an echo. It is just, I mean, again, Gio is the baddest of the bad. Oh, yeah. There is nothing in my heart that like screams like, you're the baddest bitch in the world

other than her. And there's one scene that I'm talking about that I can't say for spoiler reasons. But when it happens, I was like, holy mother of God, you've got to be kidding me. Yeah. And Jennifer Hillier is just like walking around like a pantine commercial being the sweetest person in the entire world. her smile literally lights up a room. Mm-hmm. And her hair is beautiful. She's sweet.

She's funny. She's all around an amazing human being. And she had that fucking idea. I'm like, Jennifer Hillier, you are one of the most incredible authors that I've ever read in my entire life. You have your own dedicated bookshelf, right? I love that. I have Joe Parks back there. I'm slowly collecting.

Right here. There's her and then there's Christopher Rice. Oh, nice. And then there's Ashley Winston and Maycob. Oh my gosh. We're talking about almost all of them. They're the greats. The greats.

I also was really happy. I don't know why I'm mentioning this now. It just popped into my head. I was so happy that you mentioned dark places. Because I was going to make a comment about, like, the first book that I thought of was Gone Girl. And how if Gillian Flynn didn't write Gone Girl, that, like, we wouldn't have as many of these characters to talk about as we do today. I agree. You know, there's so many voices that have came out that have been able to tell amazing stories because of that.

And, like, even in that interview that you and I were talking about where she was like, I wrote dark places and sharp objects and I was just kind of hoping that Gone Girl would sell like a little bit more than they did. Yes. And I was like, well, your wish came true. Yeah. They did a little bit better. But I'm just so happy that that book was a success because it's amazing. Yes.

But I'm also extremely happy that it was a success because I think it gave the publishing industry, the shakeup it needed to be like, oh, okay, this is an unlikable unhinged woman that like your stay-at-home mom can't relate to because she's like baking things for the fucking bake sale and yeah starches her husband's underwear or whatever she's doing well guess what that fucking housewife read that book and was like you know what you're right I do want to kill my husband sometime yeah exactly Bruce was just like yeah bitch preach scared please this is even Harley this is my bad bitch this is Harley talking to me

yeah she likes it she's a fan of gone girl totally oh yeah yeah there's our Gilling Flynn corner yep you're gonna have to wait baby girl

yeah it's like I don't want to wait mom I know like she's coming over you know just play with your bone she's like I've been playing with my bone for 45 minutes She's like, I'm over it. Yeah.

I'm like, Bone and Dad. Tyler even took me for W.A.L.K. Like, right before this. So she's fine. You need to chill. Speaking of serial killers. You stole my heart.

I just realized that three of my selections are ones that you either recommended or, like, kind of recommended. So this one was actually a tribute to you. Bad bitch game. What? So probably one of my favorite bad bitches that I will always remember is from you and Rebecca Colder from the Ursulina by Brian Freeman. The mythical beast goes by many names. Bigfoot, Saswatch Yeti.

In Black Wolf County, he's called the Ursulina. but to Deputy Rebecca Coulter, the beast is no myth. A serial killer was taken, or has taken on the identity of the monster, and with each body left behind, there's a chilling message written in blood. I am the Ursulina. Rebecca Coulter basically kind of takes on a serial killer slash monster question mark, and is badass while she does it. There are two things that terrify the shit out of me,

and one of them is a fucking Yeti, and the other one is a serial killer. So the fact that he was like writing about this serial killer that was like, I mean, Ursulina, bitch, I was like, oh my God, it's so good. I know, it was so unique. That was so fun. And he really captured that small town, wintry feel, like, brilliantly. I know.

I loved it so much. Yeah, I love the Ursulina. We are fans. Fans. Yeah, it's very character-driven, and, like, it's more emotional than you expect it to be. Yeah, and it deals with, like, toxic masculinity. Yes, for sure. Fucking evil men.

Oh, my God, I just thought of a scene, and I'm fucking pissed. Two scenes now. I know what you're talking about, yeah, because I think we talked about it, how infuriating it was. Yeah. And then how amazing it was. Yeah. And then the prequel is really, really good in the deep deep snow. Prequel?

No, the Ursulina is the prequel? Ursulina's the prequel to the deep deep snow. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And the deep deep snow is really, really good, too. I will say, though, you can read them in either order.

I think so, too. Because the deep, deep snow came out first. And when I read the synopsis, I was like, I could be interested in this, but I'm going to have to be in the right mood to read it. But then when I read the synopsis to the Ursulina, when that came out, I was like, I will be in the mood for this, right, this minute. And I'm sorry yet. So, yeah.

Speaking of toxic masculinity. Go on. Mm-hmm. We are talking about the Whisper Network by Chandler Baker. I have not read that yet. good. Sloan, Artie, Grace, and Rosalita have worked at TrueVive, True Vive, I don't know, ink for years. The sudden death of the CEO means their boss, Ames, will likely take over the entire company. Each of the women has a different relationship with Ames, who has always been surrounded by whispers

about how he treats women. Those whispers have been ignored, swept under the rug, hidden away by those in charge. But the world has changed and the women are watching this promotion different. differently. This time when they find out Ames is making inappropriate move on a colleague, they aren't willing to let it go. This time they've decided enough is enough. Sloan and her colleague's decision to take the stand sets in motion a catastrophic shift in the office. Lies will be uncovered, seekers will be exposed, and not everyone will survive. All of their lives as women, colleagues, mothers, wives, friends, even advisories, will change dramatically as a result.

If you had only listened to us, none of this would have happened on each one. Typically the case. Yep. If you just would have fucking listened. I remember nothing against this book whatsoever. I remember reading the synopsis and being like, that sounds like it would be very interesting. but sometimes with stories like that and like I don't know if I'm the right person to write a review on it because I'm not a woman who's dealt with anything like that and I'm not a woman who's you know had to put up with sexual harassment and inappropriate comments and promotions in the workplace and you know fuck the patriarchy kind of thing I'm just like a guy who supports women and it's like whatever you want to do honey I'm to support you but her um

publisher had reached out to me and was like, do you want a copy of this? And I was like, you know what? If you're going to offer me a copy of it, I'm going to check it out. And it like exceeded my expectations more than I ever. Like it was more like lyrically written than I expected. It was more like of a thriller than I expected. It was more character driven than I expected. It was just blow me away, fuck me up five stars. That is so good to know because I have read about it and have similar thought process. Not quite the same, but sometimes when a book is about anything loosely related to pop culture, that could just like be a gimmick. So like not even talking about me too is a gimmick. But sometimes when it's like really similar to something that's happening, I wonder about the writing and the plot and like if there's.

is stuff there and you just convinced me that everything's there. Yeah, everything's there. Everything's there. I think, I mean, because of the Me Too movement, because of everything with Harvey Weinstein, all of this has been going on for such a long time, but this is not one of those stories that you have to worry about coming out because of the Me Too movement. You know, it's something that they're not just like, hey, look, we got a manuscript about something that's like going on, you know, right now. Let's get this out so we can get like a money grab off it. That's what I was saying. Yep. I think that this is definitely something that took a lot of plotting and probably took her a while

to write. Yeah. But, yeah, it was, it was completely fantastic. I have to bump that up on my list. And again, not just one badass woman. Yeah, it seems like they're four. Pretty awesome. I don't have a segue.

What I will say about this next one is, I won't necessarily say who the bad bitch is. But it has one of those scenes at the end that like cinematically I loved and was super empowering and amazing for a female character. and it's another one of your recommendations. It's stalker by Lars Kepler. So the Swedish National Crime Unit receives a video of a young woman in her home, clearly unaware that she's being watched. Soon after the tape is received, the woman's body is found horrifically mutilated.

With the arrival of the next similar video, the police understand that the killer is toying with them, warning of a new victim knowing there's nothing they can do. Detective Margo Silverman is put in charge of the investigation and soon asked Detective Juna Lena for help. Lina in turn recruits Eric Maria Bark, the hypnotist and expert in trauma with whom Lina's never, or with whom Lena's worked before. Bark is leery of forcing people to give up their secrets, but this time Bark is the one hiding things. Years before, he had put a man away. for an eerily similar crime

and now he's beginning to think that an innocent man may be behind bars and a serial killer is still on the loose. It is so fast-paced, cinematic and creepy. Yeah. And then there's just a really, really amazing fun, action-packed scene

at the end of a bad bitch. Bad bitch. Yeah. the rabbit hunter that's what I have next another bad bitch nice

there are a lot of bad bitches in Lars Kepler in their books not his I am going to toot your horn like it's never been tooted before I'm going to tell you if you read the rabbit hunter before we recorded this you would have picked the rabbit hunter

over stalker I have it I bought it so I need maybe I should start it yeah I think you're gonna I think you're I think you're gonna fly through it and I think you're also gonna be like motherfucking fuck that was amazing yeah is they're all normally pretty long but I do Oh, yeah. Because the chapters are so short. Yeah, she's that.

511 pages. So yeah. Oh, it'll be fun, though. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're going to love that one. I believe it. Yeah. So good.

Speaking of a bad bitch ending. Oh, yes. The last housebuzzle. by Ashley Winstead. We could not not mention that one. We could not not mention this. Well, the funny thing is, is when I took my screenshot so I could read the

synopsis without providing any spoilers, because you know me, I never shut up. So I'm like, oh, yeah. Aliens came, and then everybody, like, had pizza and you're like, fucking idiot. Like, that's a spoiler. But I have mentioned this one. I don't think that I've ever recommended this book

as my pick. I think it's just been in conversation because I don't know if I've ever read the synopsis on our podcast. Yeah. So this is a huge moment for me. Ashley Winston, I love you so much. Okay.

While in college in upstate New York, Shea Evans and her best friends met a captivating man who seduced them with a web of lies about the way the world works, bringing them under his thrall. By senior year, Shea and her friend Laurel were the only ones who managed to escape. Now, eight years later, Shea's built on a new life in a tiny Texas suburb, but when she hears the horrifying news of Laurel's death,

delivered and always by her favorite true crime podcast crusader, she begins to suspect that the past she thought she buried is still very much alive, and the predators are more dangerous than ever. Recruiting the help of the podcast host, She goes back to the place she vowed never to return in search of answers. As she follows the threads of her friend's life, she's pulled into a dark, seductive world where wealth and privilege shield brutal philosophies that feel all too familiar. When She's obsession with uncovering the truth becomes so consuming, she can no longer separate

her desire for justice for darker desires newly awakened, she must confront the depths of her own complicity and conditioning. but in a world built for men to rule it, both inside the cult and outside of it, is justice even possible? And if so, how far will she go? That was the longest fucking synopsis I've ever read in my entire life. It's very long.

It's worth it to know about it. How do you have a synopsis that's as long as most prologs in a book? And there's still like, that's like only the tip of the iceberg with this story. Yep. It's like not even the beginning. That's not even the beginning. You think you know, you don't know. Buccle up.

The climactic scene is the pinnacle of what we're talking about right now. Yeah. Like that overcoming moment mixed with rage. Rage. Mm-hmm. There's a scene, a party scene. Mm-hmm. That was what I was referring to as well with bad bitches.

who have to like because you know our level of like bad bitchery is like an onion there's just so many different levels of what can make you a badass you know whether it's doing things to survive getting through the day that most people wouldn't even be able to like think about yes doing things that you don't want to do just to make sure that some man doesn't dispose of your dead body in a ditch because men think that they can get away with anything in this world because they're fucking atrociously disgusting disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting.

Men are horrible. Men are horrible. We are decentering men from our lives and they're both like in serious relationships. I just, you know what? This is why I want to fuck Edison from how I'll kill you. You want to know why I want to fuck Edison? Because every book that we've recommended tonight, And every thriller that I think of, there's at least one man that I'm like, I'm glad you are fictional because you would murder me in a heartbeat.

Because you are dishonest, untrustworthy, and you treat women like shit. Like, men do not belong in thrillers. They just don't. They just don't. Just nor ignore. Fuck the men that's drink to us. Yeah. Did you ever hear that song?

I said to get my one. Yeah. Yeah. That one was so good. To your point about you can be a bad bitch in all kinds of different ways, I considered putting Carrie Soto is back on my list because her story, but it's not a thriller. And I wanted to use the title bad bitches of thrillers.

I love how you like, you're like the reason I did include this is because it's not a thriller and like I want it to be bad bitches and thrillers. And I was like, so? Who cares? You were like, just, I do whatever the fuck you want. Talk about any book you want to. Kate, you do whatever the hell you want and I got your back. You do. I literally have your back against yourself. Huh? Yeah. You said you have a six one right. I do. Do you have another one? Yeah, I was just going to say I'll include Carrie Soto now. Do it. Because she's another kind of bad bitch. I'll read the Stapsis, actually.

Carrie Soto is fierce, and her determination to win at any cost has not made her popular. But by the time she retires from tennis, she is the best player the world has ever seen. She has shattered every record and claimed 20 grand slam titles. And if you ask Carrie, she is entitled to every single one. She sacrificed nearly everything to become the best with her father, Javier, as her coach. A former championship himself, Javier has trained her since the age of two. But six years after her retirement, Carrie finds herself sitting in the stands of the 1994 U.S. Open, watching her record be taken from her by a brutal, stunning player named Nikki Chan.

At 37 years old, Carrie takes, makes the monumental decision to come out of retirement and be coached by her father for one last year in an attempt to reclaim her record. Even if the sports media says that they never liked the battle axe anyway, even if her body doesn't move as fast as it did, and even if it means sports. following her pride to train with a man she once almost opened her heart to, Bo Huntley. Like her, he has something to prove before he gives up the game forever. In spite of it all, Carrie Soto is back for one epic final season. And she's such a bad bitch. Because she's so competitive and so unapologetic for it. And like obsessed with crushing her opponents and doesn't care.

that especially in like the 80s and 90s, the media did not have any interest in women in sports actually seeming competitive and like they want to win. And she's like, I don't fucking care. This is who I am. And then she won a bunch of titles. So Carrie Soto. The bitch is back.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's something to read Carrie Soto. It's very, it's a very, very, very. good. It's very character driven. There's nothing thrilling. It's so good. Well, I have to tell you something. That's really, really funny. Nice. So, whenever we do, like, whenever we discuss a topic, I don't want to be, like, we've said before, I don't want to recommend the same five books for everything that we do, right?

So sometimes I try to throw, like, I'm always going to talk about Jar of Hearts. I'm always going to talk about the living inside. I'm always going to talk about the living inside. I'm always going to talk about Ashley Winstead. Yep. So I throw in the weight of blood that I haven't talked about, the Whisper Network. But when I was like thinking of books, I was like these books that people like gone girl, girl on the train, you know, things that people like have already heard and know of and could probably relate to female rage and bad bitches and thrillers. Yeah. So I googled like thrillers with female rage.

And I found a good reads list of 18 pages of books that deal with like female rage. And Carrie Soto was on page one. Wow. I believe it. Because she's like, she's angry. Yeah. And she has every right to be. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yep. I love it. I agree with that person. Yep. And you know what? You're going to look back on this episode and be like, that was my favorite recommendation because of how much she means to you.

I know. That's true. And maybe someone will read it and be like, oh, my God. I wouldn't have read that if you hadn't talked about it. Yep. Because I probably wouldn't have read Taylor Jenkins read if I didn't like ask you about Evelyn Hugo. And you're like, yes, you'll love it.

Yeah, because Taylor Jenkins read is very character-driven. So when you have somebody who's writing character-driven stories like that, it doesn't matter what the subject is. It might spark something in you that you don't know. Yes. Something that you would want to read. Like, you would have... Like, you, like, if you didn't know or read Taylor Jenkins read prior to Carrie Soto, You probably would have passed on the book being like, I don't really want to read a book about tennis.

Exactly. Or a tennis player. So, you know, even though it's popular and it's been out for a little while, if it works, it works. Yeah. It's a really, really, like, struggle with perfectionism. There's, like, also, like, a lot that you'll take away from the book. Like, you'll probably understand some more about yourself. I highlighted a lot of quotes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. my last pick is by a very popular author whose book everyone has heard of and is my favorite book in the entire world and they're probably going to be like, oh, like,

I didn't realize that this book fell into this category or if I did, maybe they didn't have it ready yet, but this is your PSA to buy support and read Luckyest Girl Alive by Jessica Noel because it's one of the best books that I've ever read.

It's my favorite book. It's very character-driven. It is the definition of the baddest of bad when it comes to female characters. Like, she is a fucking badass and an amazing woman, and I love her very much. And Milakunas did the damn thing when she took on that role. She did. When she was holding up that knife in the very first 10 seconds

when they're like shopping for their wedding registry, I was like, I knew immediately she was going to crush it because that's exactly how I pictured it when I read the book. Yes. But the luckiest girl live is about Anni Finnelli, who as a teenager at the prestigious Bradley School, endured a shocking public humiliation that left her desperate to reinvent herself. Now with a glamorous job, expensive wardrobe, and handsome blue-blood fiancé, she's this close

to living the perfect life she worked so hard to achieve. But Ani has a secret. There's something else buried in her past that still haunts her, something private and painful that threatens to bubble to the surface and destroy everything. With a singular voice and twist you won't see coming, luckiest girl alive explores the unbearable pressure that so many women feel to have it all and introduces a heroine who sharp edges and cut-throw ambition have been protecting a scandalous truth and a heart that's bigger than it first appears. The question remains, will breaking her silence destroy all that she's worked for,

or will it long last, said, Bonnie Free? Another really, really, really fun narrator. Like, her voice is so amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I burned through that book. Yeah, that's my favorite book. That's the first book I ever pre-ordered. I have that one, too, right here. Slowly filling it in, with the greatest. What do I have?

I have two of them. I have the paperback. I have the paperback, and then I have the movie edition tie-in paper bag. Nice. But yeah, Lucky's Girl Live, favorite book, first book I ever pre-ordered. And Jessica Null is a force. A force. She is.

Bad bitches. Got another one coming out. Well, her second book also has multiple bad bitches because that's one about the reality show and like the cut throw and. you know, women in this reality show who, you know, are hiding things and whatnot. Yeah. So that one has like some badass women as well. But yeah, her upcoming one that is that is kind of told about the Ted Bundy case from a different perspective that people don't usually talk about is I can already say there's going to be some women in there that you're going to be like I fucking love her.

Yeah. I believe it. I believe it because I know it's true. I'm going to tell you something, Nicole, no, Nicole, Jessica Knoll. My friend Nicole just texted me. That's hilarious. Jessica Noel, Nicole. I will tell you one thing right now.

Jessica Knoll could be like, I'm going to write a children's book about a little avocado named Penny who is like trying to find her mom and dad in a grocery store. And I'm going to be like, Penny's the baddest fucking bitch. you're going to read this year. I love it. I mean the avocado. Because, yeah, she just has this magical way

of telling a story that, like, she will make you feel comfortable when you're supposed to feel comfortable. And she will make you feel very anxious and unsettled when you're supposed to. And also will make you, like, laugh out loud at certain parts because her characters can be so fucking snarky.

Yeah. and just all around fantastic. So Jessica Knoll, I just, I'm just a fan. This is the Jessica Null Stan podcast. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love, I love her so much. Yeah. That's my like go-to thing on Memorial Day weekend.

Mm-hmm. Every year. Yeah. Nice. Every year when like the weather gets warm and I'm like, oh, I want to get used to like reading outside before I start to sweat and like enjoy like the nice weather and stuff is to pick up luckiest girl alive. Nice. And I usually read a row Memorial Day every week or every year. There aren't many books I've read more than once.

Sometimes I wish I like did. And then I always think of the other book. I do the same thing, but there were a few times. Like, I never really read books more than once, but like a year or two ago, I want to say. I actually think it might have been Jar Hearts, too. I was like, I want something that, like, I'm going to feel like, I want to read something that I'm going to feel how I felt the first time I read Jar of Hearts because it was like a weekend.

I wanted something good. Yeah. I wanted to, like, relax with, like, a story. could get lost in. And I was just looking and I was like nothing speaking to me right now. I'm kind of in a reading rut. And I was like, if I'm trying to mimic the feeling that I felt when I read Jarre of Hearts, why don't I just read Jarre of Hearts again? You know, if you have a favorite movie, you've watched it more than once. So the good thing is the other books that you want to get to, like they'll be there when you're done. So if you're ever in a reading rut, you can reread a book that

loved and sometimes it'll spark you to be like, okay, now I want to pick up something else. And you might go out like, you know, you might read like three or four books in that week. You're right. That's my secret. Whenever I'm in a reading, right, I reread something. Or I read really, really steamy gay smut about like hockey players or frat boys. Definitely. Or jar of hearts.

Or jar of hearts, you know. Or jar of hearts. Yeah. Yeah. I need to reread the kind worth killing still. That's what's going to be my next reread. Uh-huh. Yeah.

You know, actually, like, the funny thing about you is I think that, like, I could picture you being like, yeah, I would reread a couple of these books or, like, saying it. But my, for some reason, like, I just have it in my head that the first time you reread a book is when the third Lee Bardugo book comes out and you read Ninth House in Hellbent again. I could see that happening. That's a really good point. That's a really good point because that's sometimes I'll do that with TV series. So you're right. Like a series. Yeah. And that's why I need to reread it. The kind worth killing. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I think my thing is I have so much fun trying to figure out what's going to happen in the book. And that's not there anymore when I go to reread it. I think you know what I love is when you, so you read a book for the first time and you're trying to figure out what's happening. or what's going to happen, right? And then you get to the ending and say it's something like the kind worth killing where you're like very shocked and surprised and like...

Yeah. When I reread the book again, I'm like, I wonder if he left little hints. That's a good point. Now that I know what's going to happen, I wonder if there's like little hints or something that I didn't pick up on before or maybe like another scene that didn't mean as much to me reading it the first time that it would now that I know what the outcome of this story is. is. That is a really good point because that's kind of how like it's making me think of how I consume TV sometimes and then you see if it's like a popular show, then you see like a bunch of TikToks that

kind of say like, here's how they were hinting at this the whole time. Yeah. And you like appreciate it even more. So you may have sold me on rereading more things. Yeah. It's got to be that specific book though. Whatever you're in the mood for or whatever you're searching for or whatever book you can't get out of your mind, that's what you have to reread. And then I think once you do it and you realize the joy of like, or you might not like it, you know what, you might just be like, I don't want to do that. But if you, if you do enjoy it and you are somebody who rereads books, then that kind of opens that gateway for you to have comforting reading experiences as well.

You know? Yes. Yes. Like, we can't help. what we're comforted by. You know the fucking truth. I know. I was just thinking of some people being like, glad that's what comforts you.

All I'm thinking of is like, sometimes you sometimes you pick up things about yourself when you read a book. Yeah, I agree. And you didn't know that you didn't know that there's like something about yourself that you thought was like strange or abnormal or like weird. or something until like your character and your book does it. I'm not talking about murdering your neighbor. I'm like, you know what I mean? Like I'm talking about like...

That's funny. You know, I'm talking about like other things that, you know, you might be like, oh my God, I'm the only person in the world that does this. Then you read a book. Yeah. You know, so some things do find, you can find comfort in other things. You can. I felt that way when I was reading Gone Again, actually.

because there were some things that the character voice where I was like, whoa, like, I never talked to anyone else about that, but it's because I don't really talk to other pastors kids. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's a good point. Yeah. Of course. You put yourself in a, you put yourself in a lot of different positions in life, you know,

and sometimes you read a book and you're like, well, if I'm ever in that position, I know what to do or not to do, you know. I've been very vocal about this with you and with other, like, other friends, but, like, I feel like every gay man who's ever used Grindr has had at least one time in his life where he was like, this is really sketchy and I should not be going to hook up with this guy. And I don't know why I'm listening to this little voice in my head saying, I'm like, it might be fun. But, like, when I read Bathhouse, I was like, okay, anytime that I literally thought I was going to be murdered or came close to it, I feel a lot better now.

after reading Baddhouse I was like I was like well you know hand around your neck different vibes whatever

they're worse ways to go none of them tried to kill me but you never know books really reveal a lot about yourself to yourself

yeah yeah they do