Bookwild - The Childhood Books that Shaped Our Reading Tastes with Halley Sutton

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

This week, I talk with Halley Sutton about the books we loved reading in our childhood, and how they shaped our reading preferences as adults!Books We Talked AboutElla EnchantedThe Uglies SeriesThe Hunger GamesSally Lockhart SeriesSammy Keyes Series Mara, Daughter of the NileInside the Walls of TroyWalk Two MoonsSong of the Lioness SeriesInto the Land of the Unicorns A Wrinkle in TimeA Ring of Endless LightFrom the Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler  Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

I'm super excited this week because I'm back with Hallie Sutton and we're dancing. If you're watching us on YouTube, that's the plug to go watching YouTube. And we were just talking about you are putting together a newsletter right now. And you asked me a bunch of questions. And one of your questions was, what do I wish more people asked on Instagram? And I was like, what did you read when you were a question? kid. And so I answered it and you and I both read the book that I answered with and then you thought it would be a really cool idea to have, why am I blinking, to do an episode about books that we've read

as kids. I'll get there. And I love the idea. I know. I'm so excited for this conversation. So, first of all, thank you for being part of my author newsletter and my new kind of segment of it called tastemaker salon where I'm speaking with people in the bookstagram and book talk and book blog world because I think you guys have like a lot of insight. First of all, you all have very interesting stories and I love hearing about the books that like you love. And then I also think you have a lot of insight for authors. And actually like a lot of the people who read my author newsletter are my author friends. So I'm like, what can you teach us that might be beneficial to us? So I'm really, I'm excited about it. Thank you. I didn't even know about that like that background of it. But that's a

really cool idea. It does, it does help authors to know what readers like care about or interested in, all of that. Totally. And like, uh, the Ashley Winstead is one of my readers. And like, so she will be, I know. And like every time we talk, it just turns into the Ashley Winstead appreciation fan cast, but like it's, she deserves it, you know. Sometimes she can't help herself. Can't at all. But, uh, yeah, I'm super excited for this conversation today. Like I spent a lot of time the last couple of days, like, jotting down some of my childhood favorites and I can't wait to hear about yours and, like, maybe talk about the way that, like, our tastes have changed or, like, shaped us into the readers and writers we are today.

Yeah. And so what was interesting when I started looking for mine or thinking about mine was, I've kind of mentioned on here before, but, like, what I was exposed to as a kid is a lot different than what I choose to, like, watch and read now. Oh, totally. Keep it short. I had an extremely sheltered childhood. So I was like, are any of these going to, how much are these going to translate? And actually, I really do have a bunch that like translate into what I love now.

So that was kind of fun to find that out. That's awesome. That's really cool. I can't wait to hear them. And I, yeah, when I was looking at mine thinking about it, I was actually like, I mean, not surprised because I remember them and I understand like why this is part of my personality. but like it's less actually mystery heavy than I would have guessed, given like how many mysteries I read now. A lot of historical fiction, like for younger.

But I have like thoughts and theories about that, including the fact that like I figured out pretty early that like historical fiction was also a good vehicle for like romance or like horny scenes. And so I could be like, no, mom, I just want to learn about ancient Rome. I'm like flipping through for the dirty bits. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. So if you have a kid and they suddenly start getting very interested in historical fiction that's like a little too adult, like be tuned into that. Yeah, totally.

Oh, that's so good. So yeah, if anyone is really getting into historical fiction as a kid, maybe we know why. Just putting it out there. They are very dirty. we may have talked about it i don't know it might have been someone else like i always wish i would get more into historical fiction but it kind of goes into that idea that sometimes i'm like oh i wish i read more genres and then i'm like i have plenty to read i don't need to be wishing that on myself but totally i've never gotten totally into it but my sister-in-law loves it totally and i

To be very, I read less of it now, although I'm still interested in it. But I think as a kid, I was just so fascinated by like, like, I also read a lot of, like, fantasy and different stuff. And I think I liked, like, different worlds and times that you could really inhabit. And you've got that a lot with historical fiction, right? Like, you're, like, stepping into the shoes of somebody else. Like, I don't know if you remember these or if you had access to them or you read them, but there were all those, like, Dear America Diary books.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it used to be like, and then, and like I loved those. Those were so my jam because it was like such an interesting window into just like a slice of history, just being like hungry for knowledge. And I think that's what it was when I was a kid. And also, you know, the romance and horny bits. Well, now that you're saying this about historical fiction, it's like all coming back to me. Like actually, so I have always been a huge reader. Like I loved reading from the get go.

And so actually the like fun fact about me that was told for a long period of my childhood was that I read, I was reading the Lori Ingalls Wilder books before I went to him. Amazing. And was like carrying my little chapter book around with me. Like, when are we going to have reading time? Oh my God. That's incredible. I was obsessed with the Lori Ingalls Wilder books.

I think because there were like 20 of them. I think I read all of them. Totally. Yeah. for a couple of years. I loved those books, too. I don't remember if I read all of them, but I definitely read a bunch of them. And, like, totally, ma and paw and, like, everybody on the prairie.

Like, oh, I was so into that. And I used to, like, you know, when you're, like, playing make-believe with your friends, it was always, like, Laura Ingles Wild. They're like, we're on the prairie and we're gathering supplies for winter. Being a kid is weird. And then the show, like, I, like, watched the, it was called Little House on the Prairie. The show was. watch that show so many times like that probably would have been considered a comfort show of my

childhood oh totally pa was a dillth also like we need to be talking about this more as america tripping me out is just like this morning i got on tic-tok and someone had pulled a clip of like when someone like hurts ma and he's like getting mad and like all the comments were like how did i just this is just finding out that pa was like hot or like that pa was actually a dillf so that That's hilarious thing. You just said that because I just saw it in a TikTok today. And I was like, damn, I just wasn't thinking about him that way back then. I know, me either, but like now in retrospect for sure. And like, yeah, now I wonder if like I've become the TikTok algorithm in our conversation. Same. Same. We love to talk so much.

Anna Green Gables. So I actually was kind of historical fictiony. Yeah, totally. Yeah, Anna Green Gables was was totally great. Did you watch the, there was like movie adaptations of those. two. Yeah. And I was really into those. No, the older ones. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah. Gilbert was just the best thing to ever happen to the world. Totally. He was such a babe. And then there was like her friend Diana and she accidentally got her drunk on like raspberry cordial and they're like, you're a bad influence. Like raspberry cordial. Oh my gosh. I like, I can't even believe how I'm like, wow, that memory was just in my brain. But I just haven't about it in that long. Totally. Totally. Totally. It's fun because now we're like unearthing stuff,

right? Like I have a whole list of books here and like I want to talk about them, but also like us just riffing on this too. It's like bringing a whole bunch of things to mind. Like, oh yeah. I was like, I didn't have any of these listed. They've just like come into my mind. Totally. I love that. It is cool like having read your whole life. All the things that like stick with you. Totally. Totally. And like that they're still they're still there in like the library of your mind at you know some point that you can call back up for sure yes yeah yeah one that i absolutely couldn't think of the title for like oh no i remember kind of like that the cover was like yellow like heavy yellow heavy i guess um and that it was about a girl who kind of like

lived in an abandoned castle and that was about all that i got but i remember loving it and i remember like where I was reading it in our like second or third house or whatever couldn't think of the title though so we'll see maybe it just pops up since I'm in that mind frame totally or maybe like some intrepid internet sleuth will be able to be like that's what it was you know yeah yeah my something the castle see it's starting to come back it's starting to come back I capture the castle not I capture the castle it might be that oh really by Doty Smith I I think. I'm going to look it up. I feel like it is that. Oh my gosh. If I just cracked it, I'm going to like, yes. This is totally it. It's a green and yellow. It's a green and yellow cover. Wow. I feel,

I feel very proud of myself for pulling that one out. Amazing. And she's like, she's got her sister who kind of like gets involved with these brothers and wants to marry one kind of for money but is in love with the other one and like they have like a stepmother topaz like it's all starting to come back to me yes yeah this is all written in diary entries yes oh my gosh you got it that's what it was amazing well maybe i need to reread that one i haven't thought of that book in years but like that was a good one that was so good that's what i was thinking about i was just saying that to my husband before we recorded because I was pulling all of these up. And I was like, I want to go back and reread them. But like currently, like the way life has just been busy.

Like I have a book that I started nine days ago that I haven't finished and I can't remember the last time anything like that happened with my reading schedule. So I'm like, I don't want to do it right now. But like sometime I need to like start sneaking in some of these like because it's so memorable in my mind from so Totally. It would be cool to reread it. It really would. Yeah, for sure. But I also know what you mean. I mean, I have a bookshelf behind me of books like to be read. And there's a part that's like, should I go back? But like, I don't know, it would be so fun to revisit them, you know? Like we kind of started this conversation. Should we dive into our list? Yeah, probably. So we, so we kind of part of what sparked this was when you asked that great question, like pose that question. Like pose that question. of like what books did you love as a kid? And then you mentioned, um, you mentioned two books. And I actually am not as familiar with the other one. So I would love to hear about that. But then when you mentioned Ella enchanted it like unlocked a whole chamber in my mind of like

thinking like, like I loved that book. And like I'm so excited to talk about it with you. And like, I haven't read it in years with that like I checked it out from the library like four or five times. I was so into it, you know. I had a paperback. I had a paperback version of it. And I reread it over and over and like i don't reread books now but yeah i reread it over and over and over again and when i was looking back on it for this obviously then just like thinking about what the story's about for anyone who doesn't know it's um it is like a cinderella retelling essentially but this girl is this princess is born but her fairy godmother gives her the gift of obedience.

And so, I mean, to me, right off the bat, I could see the problems there. Sure. But the fairy godmother thinks it's a gift. Right. But like she has to obey if anyone tells her to do anything. So she's like so easily controlled. And then Prince Charming, of course, Prince Charmott, actually in this one, Charmott. kind of gets introduced where like the same thing as cinderella like her dad dies so now it's like

evil step mom and sisters and she's just like the scullery made but she ends up becoming friends with prince charmott sometime when he like passes through so that's kind of the inciting incident of like someone she cares about enough to want to be able to break free of the curse that has like kept her just having to obey to anyone who knows that they can just tell her what to do and she'll do it. And when I was thinking back on it, I'm like, what an empowering story, actually? Totally. It's so empowering. And I totally, I agree with you.

And I think that, like, culturally often the narrative for little girls, young women has been, like, obedience, make yourself small, make yourself acceptable. And, like, even in the original Cinderella myth, right? Like the question is like, why doesn't she just run away? Like I know it's not that easy and like, you know, at a time when women didn't have resources, but also it's kind of weird that she just goes along with like her step sisters being like, you got to clean the floors. So like this gave like, I think the genius of Ella Enchanted was that it sort of like answered that question and that it also like made her very much a heroine, gave her a quest.

And then when she ultimately like, spoiler alert, but this book's been out for 30 years. And it's, you know, Cinderella. When she does finally break free of it, it's like such an empowering moment. Like it was, I don't know. I think it like you and I probably loved it for like some of the exact same reasons. I feel like it was such a great book to read as like a young girl and like have as, I don't know, an example or like a fairy tale that didn't feel like she was so passive and that like she and the prince actually like in this one get to know each other pretty deeply before like

the whole goes to the balls and falls in love with her, which is like also sort of a weird thing. So I don't know. I just thought it was so well done. And like I wonder, you know, I think that there are probably books that we could revisit that may not hold up very well. But I think a lot of this would still hold up pretty well in 2024, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Because again, I feel like it's been out long enough. And also, I don't know that anyone's going to be like, oh, I'm dying to pick this up right now. There's also a movie made with Anne Halfaway with. it which we got to talk about for sure we have to talk about that too um but it is like her moment like she's so scared to be around him because he doesn't know about it she's like scared that like someone could like order her to kill him like if they were like assassinated whatever

people who wanted to kill the royal court or whatever and so yeah i'm just going to go with a spoiler. Basically, when he does ask her to like be with him, she actually, like, it's what she wants. And he's even telling her, like, why not like be with me? And she says no. And it's the first time that she's ever been able to like not, not be like stuck under the curse. And so then it's like this beautiful thing because like the reason she finally felt like she would say no is because she didn't want to hurt. Oh boy. What's. It's my camera doing. It's just going to be like this. The reason she could finally say no is because she actually is so concerned that she would hurt someone else. So it's even like this selfless act that like she finally is able to do it.

And then it's also not that he broke the curse. Right. She breaks it. Like totally. Totally. She brings it. She gets to own her autonomy in that moment. And even though she does want to be.

with him and eventually does, like the fact that she's like, no, and it's this triumphant moment. I mean, it was, it was cool to read as a kid for sure. I loved that book. I love it so much. Yeah. I get chills listening to it because there's, again, I don't, just because we're talking about my childhood, I don't want to talk about it at length, that nauseam necessarily for people.

But very sheltered childhood, as I mentioned earlier. And I was just so scared of going against, like, a lot of religious rules. and just like all of my parents' rules for a really long time. And it actually, if I'm being completely honest, had a lot to do with meeting, Tyler, that finally I met my husband when I was 19 and in college. And if you know anything about controlling parents, I'm just going to say narcissistic parents,

then not having control really triggers all of the issues. So like all of the issues came up just because there was someone else. introduced into the system. And so like now when I look back of the story, it's like so cool that like I loved it so much as a kid when like that was how I felt. That was how my life felt. And it really was the first time that I was like, this is getting out of hand and I'm old enough to walk away from this. Totally. I'm just always going to love this story. It's always going to get me a little chill bumps. I love that. I think that that's like the very best of literature and what literature can do for us as kids is like nurture the seed of something that like maybe you don't have the tools to fully grasp when

you're like 11 but then when you're 19 you know like it like keeps something alive in you that maybe yeah i mean i think that always lived in you but like it maybe helps kind of like build it you know yeah so that like yeah i think so too i think it was mostly always there and i just i just knew i had to get out of the house and i needed to be able to be self-sufficient on my own to be able to fight back. There wasn't going to be any use in doing it when I was like 15 and still living in the house. Totally. It is, it is fun to think about like the stuff that you did read that maybe helps you in the moment when you finally can have agency, like helps you have agency. Totally. Totally. I love that. Yeah. I did have a little show and tell thing as well.

Oh, yes. Okay. So it, um, this is, well, first of all, you're not. You're not going to be able to totally see it. But here is this is my little writer's journal. Oh my gosh. From 2004 is when this was like initially written. I was initially writing in it.

And like it even says for the YouTube people who might, nope, it's too bright. Yeah. I might put images of this up in the YouTube version. So go to YouTube. But it says my writer's notebook and I was writing down books that like I wanted to write.

Oh my gosh. And right after I read Ella Enchanted, it says Cinderella twisted fairy tales. I enjoy them and I hope to write them. And I'm like, oh, I love that. How cute. How beautiful. I was like, it just meant that much to me as a book, basically. Totally.

Totally. I love that. And I think I remember having something similar to where it, like, was one of the first versions of like a fractured or retold fairy tale that I like really connected with. And like I remember that kind of like blowing my little like baby writer's brain of like, oh, you can take this like story and then like shift it or twist it. And like that's still something I find like so interesting and like creatively generative as a writer too of like taking some story that we know culturally or like some like with my first book, The Lady Upstairs something that I was doing like very specifically was I was taking

like tropes of noir and then kind of like shifting them or like writing against them or being like I'm annoyed that Raymond Chandler did this so I'm going to do this you know like um so yeah and I I thought that was like so like revelatory that like you could do that and like I remember Ella Enchanted being like an early example of a book I read where I was just like you can do this you know it was so cool it's so cool yeah and then it did get a movie out adaptation that is like, it felt quirkier and I feel like it doesn't completely match the book, not necessarily in a bad way. No, not necessarily in a bad way at all.

I don't remember loving the movie. I don't remember hating it. I wasn't obsessed with it. I wasn't either, which was kind of a bummer because I was so obsessed with the book. And it was like, they did do some quirkier stuff with it. Like, I think they kind of made it a musical at times too. Yeah, and it's like all of those are cool and interesting choices, but I did feel like parts of the things that I really loved about the book didn't necessarily make it through.

So like it almost feels like its own separate thing. It really does. Yeah. I can really agree. Like they exist as two very separate things in my mind. Yeah. But if you like musicals, Gennon Hathaway, you'll probably like it. Totally.

I'm not a musical girl. I am. But not, that one didn't spark me up. Yeah. Yeah. More Phantom of the Opera. Well, it read lots of. Oh, yeah.

It's a very different feel. Horny fan fiction of Phantom of the Opera as a kid, too. I see there's a theme emerges today. Oh, my gosh. Well, we definitely both love Della enchanted. Oh, yeah. It was so good. It was so good.

So tell me about the other book that you mentioned, or I think it was a series, the uglies um that you mentioned to you is called it was called the ugliest trilogy um and it's by someone named scott westerfeld but it is basically about a girl named tally who is about to turn 16 and she's really excited because in this world when you turn 16 you undergo an operation to turn from a repellent ugly into a stunning pretty wow so there's that this like divide between everyone under 16 and above 16. And then as well, you basically move to a whole new city as well that is like a high tech paradise where your only job is to have fun. But then she becomes friends. She makes a new friend, someone named Shea. And Shea is what we need

in all dystopian sci-fi thrillers. She's the doubter who thinks there's something a little suss about becoming pretty. Yes, I was with Shay on that one where I was like, hmm, this sounds

too good to be true. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so Shea runs away before she's forced to have surgery because she just turned 16.

And Talley, what happens here? Oh, the Thoris. then pull tally in for questioning and tell her that she has to go out and find her friend and bring her back and force her to be a pretty or they'll never turn her into a pretty so it the first book is tally basically um searching for shay and then the next ones are called

pretties and specials because there is like a next there's a next there's I can't remember what the specials are, but I think they're like special, like, skills that you can have, that you can learn surgically or whatever. But I devoured this. It looks like it came out in 2005, the initial series. Like, I remember getting it from, like, the book fair. I'm pretty sure. Love that. The book fair was the best day.

No, I know. I was like, I don't need to racers. I need books. Right. But it was so good. Like, this is one of the ones that I always. also really want to go back and reread because I feel like there's a lot about it that I would like pretty much the same but this this definitely translates into like the sci-fi that I end up

really loving still totally the way that the certain speculative fiction um basically like I don't get into really dense sci-fi so like the best example I have right now is I adored Dune and Dune 2 movie-wise, fantastic. But I completely know that that is way too dense of a sci-fi book for me to enjoy reading. Totally. Totally. So I don't get into that sci-fi, but like this kind of stuff where it's like asking about like, what are we going to do with technology and like what are the implications of technology?

Even like society's obsession with how you visually present yourself. It really has like a lot of the same themes in it. that I love reading now. So I feel like it really informed a lot of that for me too. I love that. And that's like such an interesting question and like frighteningly feels more relevant in 2024 than maybe ever, you know, when it's like, OZempic or BBLs or you can modify your appearance in all these ways or even just face tune yourself.

And like, yeah, that's really interesting. And it feels like very, you know, when we. We were, we haven't, I think we're close, close in age. So I'm assuming we were kind of coming up around the same time, which is, but like, there was that whole kind of boom of like the dystopian fiction like this of like this and like hunger games and like, um, divergent and all these different things where it was this kind of like perfect society and the cracks underneath. And like that's still a really compelling story and still feels frighteningly relevant. And I'm putting this one on my TBR. I know.

I really want, I'm like, even looking at the covers and I'm like, man, I remember just love it. And like waiting a year for the next one because like they definitely both end on cliffhangers. Just torture. Perible. Yeah. Totally. I remember that feeling too.

And just being like a whole year, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Hunger Games came out. I was born in 92. But Hunger Games came out when I was like, I think at the end of high school slash right at the beginning of college. And I just didn't quite end up jumping on it. Same.

I can't remember what happened. Oh, I think it was when I had COVID in like 2022. I saw that the whole series was on Netflix. I ended up watching them all. And then when the prequel came out as movie this year, we went and saw that. And that was so good. Oh, I haven't seen the prequel yet. It's, okay.

So she's just the way she like talks about such large like social questions about war and who actually wins in war slash if anyone actually wins in war and how we try to mask or control mass amounts of people. She's so good at doing that while also having these really compelling characters and character arcs that also make you feel conflicted. Her storytelling is just so amazing. Like Tyler hadn't seen any of the Hunger Games. We went and saw the prequel and he was even like, that was good.

And so then he watched the movies. But it finally, basically we saw the prequel and I was like, I think I want to read the books. And it literally was like, I had to like actually like really think about if I was going to do it because I knew I had a bunch of net galleys lined up at the time. this is like November of last year. And I was like, no, I'm just going to do it. So I read the trilogy, like, straight through. It is just so good. Like, the story arcs, the questions she brings up, like, it's just fantastic.

It's really good dystopian fiction. Okay. Okay. I mean, I've read the first, I've read certainly read the first two Hunger Games books, but I haven't read the prequel. And I don't know, I certainly know what happens in it, but I can't remember if I actually read the book or if I just. just saw the movie at the end.

But yeah, she does a really good job. And I love like Katniss is such a like strong female lead and like empowering, especially because like, okay, I don't know where you stand on this. And I'm not trying to hate on something that people love. But like compared to say Bella and Twilight, who is a pretty passive character and like this was coming out at a very similar time. And I was more like Katniss. Like this is this is the figure we need not I agree yeah I agree not to say I mean

Twilight is very like wonderful and I know it like connects with a lot of people but in terms of character I definitely ship more catness I'm on you on now too yeah yeah because it was like I obviously loved here we are Ashley's midnight is the darkest hour so good it was a little inspired by Twilight but I still even feel like Ruth was more had more agency than Bella so I feel like that's why I also liked it. So it's like I see the merits of Twilight where it's like it's okay to like as a girl feel enamored with someone to that level. Totally.

I did feel like Ruth was like still a little more empowered. And like and more. I don't know. I don't want this to turn into like a Halley Hates on Bell Swan. Which is also, I'm sorry, the most ridiculous name. Oh, it is. beautiful swan um but like yeah i like it's it's i think that there's like unfair hate that gets piled on bella about the like romance and obsession and the way that that kind of feeds a certain

misogyny and like like a thing like oh women only care about this and i think that's unfair but yes i do think that like say ruth and midnight as the darkest hour is like more rounded and compelling to me for various reasons than Bella herself was that are not necessarily attached to the hate that like it like the easy dunking people do on twilight, which I think is unfair. Right. Right. I agree.

But yeah, Katness. Katness is that bitch is the best way I could say it. Like she just is. I love like even the way the love triangle is handled and the way that she's also like, this is not the point of the book. Like some people, I think I may have not read it because I thought it. It was so much of just like a love triangle thing too. We're like it just, it's not what I look for in my adult life.

I don't read romance. Totally. Nothing against it. I just don't unless Ashley writes it. Yeah, I mean, and then. But she just like, she actually doesn't need PETA nor Gail. Gail. All I can think is Liam.

I know. Liam Hemsworth. Yeah, so she doesn't need either of them. And that's, like, very apparent through the entire book. And I actually, I actually even did, I did a TikTok after I read the series. Because, like, there are tons of TikToks about them, about, when your games at the time, because the prequel was out. And a lot of people were talking about, like, you thought Catnest was, like, cold and, like, whatever in the movies.

You should hear how unhinged. and like angry and distrustful her thoughts are like it's like a common kind of joke that was on TikTok so I'm like what is this going to be like and then I read it and I'm like I wouldn't trust that person either I wouldn't trust that person either I was like totally too catness on this I was like I don't know what this says about me but to me I think catness is spot on no I agree and also like I mean I haven't seen these TikTok so it's not really fair for me to comment on them but like what I remember of Katness is the context she's raised in is that like every year children or every couple of years children are sent to die like i don't think that would

foster me being like god the world is a beautiful place and i should trust everyone like no i wouldn't trust pita either like it's like a staged relationship they know that that's what's happening i wouldn't just initially believe that he like cared about me enough to not kill me totally trust anyone like and i i do love that what i remember about pita as like a sexy like detail is that like he smells like bread and i was like right yes this is this is great you can make bread you make cakes yeah exactly like red boy's a winner for me yep i'm on board i am on board yeah um my camera is a weird things. But yeah, Hunger Games. Very. Hunger Games, such a classic.

Okay, can I share? Yeah. So the next one I have on my list is the Ruby and the Smoke by Philip Pullman, which is a quartet that's called the Sally Lockhart Quartet. And Philip Pullman is more famous for the His Dark Materials books, which I actually tried to read and didn't really connect with. But I was upset. with the Sally Lockhart series. Sally was kind of this like 1800s, late 1800s proto-feminist living in London. And the first book is she's kind of solving a mystery. I think her like uncle has died or has gone missing or something. And she kind of collects these band of characters. And

they kind of wind up getting in over their head. I mean, it's like it's kind of a combination mystery adventure type thing, like kind of like a Victoria. in London, Indiana Jones a little bit. Like, not so archaeological, but, like, kind of, like, going on quests and fighting the powers that be. And she had this love interest, Fred, and something very bad happens to Fred that, like, fucked me up for, like, a while. But, like, I know.

Sorry. But I was so into those books. And what I remember, and, like, I think this is, like, one of the things that I think about when I think about, like, what made me a writer was that I was, like, so obsessed with her, thought she was so cool. I would write her letters because I wanted her to know about my life the way that she knew that, like, I knew about her life because I'd like read it. Yes. I didn't mail the letters, you know.

So like we're not talking like full childhood psychosis, but I would like writer like and she she was like this, like I said, kind of this like early feminist and was like, women need to get the vote. And I'm all about women's suffrage. And I like wrote her a letter and was like, good news, Sally. Women have the vote now. Oh my gosh. I love that. Yeah. And I think for me it was like these books were really formative. Something about like the way I connected with that character. I was like, oh, I want to do this. You know, like I want to write characters that make people feel that much. And I don't I don't know that that's actually what I've wound up doing. And but like I, but it was like for sure like a significant step in my journey towards being a writer was like being like, oh, this person is as alive to me as like my. mom or my cousin, you know, like, and so that was like a big moment. That is so cool. Yeah, it almost is

like maybe like Nancy Drew meets Indiana Jones. Yes, that's exactly. That's like a really good comp. Yes. Are you able to hear my dogs losing their minds? I can hear them a little bit, yeah. Okay, we'll wait for a second. Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne. Oh yeah, we have Bruce Wayne and Harley Quinn. Oh my God, that's so cute. I like, I mean, first of all, Bruce's name is a wonderful name for a dog. And I also like that it feels like you're calling him by like his full name. Like Bruce Wayne, like, you know, get it together. Yeah.

And we're not. Harley's bad. We're like, Harley Quinn. That's amazing. Super Bruce is actually really derpy. And like not quite a Bruce Wayne. And so we saw a meme of, I mean, we counted for 10 years, so probably 10 years ago where it was like if if Batman was high or something like that and he's like,

I'm, I'm Bruce Man, I'm Bat Wayne. And so we also call him Bat Wayne. So when he's being cute, we're like, Bab Wayne, you cute boy. He has all of the silly names. I love that. I mean, I think that's what pets are for is like just nickname generation, you know, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It really is. Okay. I think you need segue us here. Okay. So, well, I actually read, I did read Nancy Drew too. Didn't come up in my mind when I was thinking about these necessarily, but I definitely read a whole bunch of Nancy Drew. I almost said movies. I read a bunch of movies. I read a bunch of Nancy Drew books. But the mystery series, similar to what you were saying, that stood out to me that I remembered the most, was called Sammy Keys. Well, the series is called Sammy Keys, but the first one was called Sammy Keys and the hotel thief. This came out in 1998, so I somehow didn't read these. Very young. Yeah. I somehow didn't read these. So what were, what were, what was Sammy Keys about? What Sammy Keys is a deal? I feel like she's like 12, 12-ish years old, 12 or 13. And so this first one, it's pretty short.

So I'll just read the synopsis. Graham's always told her those binoculars would get her into trouble. Now Sammy's witnessed a crime at the heavenly hotel, a light-fingered thief stealing $4,000 from Madam Nashira, the astrologer with the fire hazard hairdo. Thing is,

while she was watching him, he was watching her too. And that's like in the whole synopsis. That's great. 12 year old, like, trying to find clues the same way as Nancy Drew, but like in a more modern world.

And there were so many books. it was another thing where like every time a new one came out i was so excited i love that samu peas and the sisters of mercy i really remember that one there's so many it looks like they kept writing them they're 18 of them now i don't think they're 18 of them that is prolific 2014 like they wrote them until 2014 so i feel like i read the first four or five but i was obsessed with them obviously it's a mystery um um And so, I mean, it reminds me of all the mysteries I read now, too. Totally.

Totally. And I love in that description you just read the way that like whoever was writing that marketing copy, you know, might have been the author, might have been the publishing company. They tucked in like some really unique details in there too. So it gives me the sense that it's going to be this kind of like quirky book full of like really unique images and characters and stuff. Like that's great. Yeah. I remember just devouring them.

I would like, like, are. I read in the car. I remember reading this one in the car even just to like keep getting through the pages. Totally. I love it so much. I love it so much. And it is really similar to like, it's all, it's kind of rear windowy with the whole like she sees something happens. I've definitely read some rear window re-tellings recently.

I actually just, funny enough, this is like a weird segue, but and this is not child Halley, this is adult Hallie, but just a couple weeks ago I had. actually read the short story rear window that the movie is based on. I read that for the first time. And it's so funny because that is such a concept that's like done now. And I think still has like life in it, right? Like somebody witnesses a crime gets involved like done it. But like, rear window set a very specific template for it too. But like that story still holds up. Like it is still very like anxiety provoking. And it's a classic. Have you? Have you seen the movie Watcher? No.

Is this the one? Okay. No, I haven't seen it. It's, I think you would love it. It's about a girl who moves Sweden, to some foreign country with her kind of new boyfriend. I don't think they're married. I have heard of this, yes.

Oh, it is so good and freaky. It's also very freaky. And so she doesn't know what most people are saying around her. So there's this like added like level of like anxiety about it all because like we don't know what they don't give subtitles either. So you're kind of totally with her. They're like you don't even always know what people are talking about. And she becomes convinced. I don't think this is a spoiler that the guy across the street from them, they live in an apartment that has like these huge windows.

And she's convinced that he's been watching her. And her boyfriend is like, stop being hysterical. Like, it's just a new, we're just in a new place and like you're coming up with stuff. So it, it even pulls, I remember after I read it or read it after I watched it, I of course then was like reading about it because that's my favorite thing to do after I watch something too. And it even has homages to like stuff from the movie. rear window. Oh, I love that. There's also gaslight.

Is gaslight the movie? Yes, gaslight. I think it's gaslight. Yeah. Yeah. There's a moniscus. Yeah. There's a man. Cool. Very cool. There is a wild ending. You really sold me. I might be watching this. I might be watching this tonight. If I do, I will like ping you afterwards and let you know what I thought. It was like Gare posted about it. And we, he and I had kind of

just started talking on bookstagram and then he posted about it and i watched it and i was like this is amazing and then like shortly after it we started we were like let's do a podcast together so yeah it even goes back to like the origins the origins of the podcast i love that that's wonderful it's it's a perfect companion piece love that okay i will definitely check it out yeah it you'll have to let me know you'll definitely give me your your thoughts oh i will you won't be able to stop me Good. Did you have, do you have any others that you read? Yes.

I had, so I had a couple of, I'm going to kind of like wrap a few of them together and I'll do like short blurbs. But like I had, I was really like I said, into these kind of historical. So there was one that was like my all time favorite when I was a kid called Mara Daughter of the Nile by Eloise Jarvis McGrath. And it's about this young woman, Mara, who's a slave in ancient Egypt. but she has like a few unique talents. She's like a very talented thief.

She's very charming and she speaks Babylonian. And she like gets observed one day in a marketplace like stealing some bread. And like she gets kind of she becomes like she gets kind of co-opted into like palace intrigue. Like one, there's the female Pharaoh Hacheptsut is on the throne and there are people who are trying to overthrow her. And it's kind of a bummer. This was written in like the 60s or 70s, I think. So it's like they're like, we got to take the woman down. and like I wish that was different.

But like, she gets kind of like. Yeah. She becomes a spy for one side. But then the other side also like unknowingly, she becomes a double agent. So she's working both sides. She falls in love with somebody on one side. And she's like kind of going back and forth. And it was just like I loved that book as a kid.

That's the one that I think I checked out of the library so many times that like when I left elementary school, because I was in a same school from kindergarten. and through fifth grade and I was checking this book out like three times a year for like four years in a row and finally the library was like take it with you like nobody else has read it in 20 years this one's yours you know so I have like the old library copy of it which is pretty epic that is yeah yeah and then another one that kind of falls under that same banner of like the historical books I was really into is called Inside the Walls of Troy by clements McLaren and it is two POVs told from women involved in

in the Trojan War, which is kind of like from a YA standpoint, which is kind of cool because like now, like those Greek retellings are like so big. But like this book was like back in the 90s, I think. So one, it's told from, um, Helen of Troy's point of view, who is somebody who like definitely gets kind of the raw end of the stick in terms of like how we think about her now or like how like popular opinion thought of her of kind of, you know, she just ran off with this dude and like started a war and stuff. And you're like, well, she was married at 13. And like I have more empathy for her because of this book. And like was feeding like baby feminist, Hallie.

And then the other one was told from the point of view of Cassandra, who like famously in Greek myth was the one who like saw the downfall of the Trojan war, but is cursed that like she can see the future, but nobody will believe her. So like she'll be like telling people like we can't let the Trojans in. We shouldn't be fighting this war or we can't let the Greeks in. We shouldn't be fighting this war. And nobody believes her and tragedy follows. But it was.

So good. I was so obsessed with those two books as a kid. Yes. These are, I feel like I would have two. Like, the first one, Mara daughter of the eye off, it's making me want to read just like any spy novel where there's the like playing both sides. Like. Oh, totally. So much fun. So much fun. So tense. Yeah. It was like, yeah. It's a it's like even though it's a historical, which isn't the genre I write in, like in that book particularly, I can see. like seeds of like what I was interested in what I'm interested in now as a writer too like it's yeah really cool totally well and even like you're saying for little little feminist hally but like a woman not being believed and having like very useful information totally like the course of history right like all of you guys are going to die but you're not going to listen to me because i'm a girl you know like yep that i mean that sounds so cool yeah those were great books wishing i had more greek method or Well, Greek mythology is what it's listed under. Sure.

I had more of that in my life now. Yeah. I do remember what did we? Oh, man, that just triggered a memory. I don't know. There was something when we briefly studied Greek mythology in either feels like upper elementary school or middle school. Totally. Then I did get really into it.

And there was definitely some like kind of retelling. for kids of who flew too close to the sun. Oh, Icarus. Icarus. There were some children's book that kind of like had something to do with Icar or not maybe not children's book. Oh, that's cool. But I did have a stammer.

I definitely got into it a little bit. Love that. I don't, you, so you said you were born in 92. I was born in 88, so I'm a little bit older than you. And this TV show was like maybe a little bit even too old for me. so you may not remember it, but there was like a Jim Henson retelling of Greek myths TV show. And I remember it very vividly. I used to watch it every morning before school.

I would get up because there was like one episode at like 6 a.m. And so I would like get up and watch it. But like they were, I don't know, they were like really cool retellings of Greek myths in link. I think there were sometimes puppets involved, but there were real life people too. It just kind of felt like a, it did a cool. thing where it kind of made it feel like a fantasy movie, but it was like a retelling of a Greek myth. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I don't think I saw those. I'm not remembering anything, but I do remember getting, not that I knew the word at the time, but getting hyper fixated on

like all the gods and all their stories. Yes. It's very reality TV now that you think about it. Like, oh, totally. Messy, especially because like their gods had faults. Yeah. They kind of acted like humans too. Oh, and they acted like the worst versions of humans, which I actually think is kind of hilarious that like they're all just like very horny and letcherous and drinking too much. And like, it's just, it's so weird. And I actually think you just said that and I'm like, you should write or should we like tag team write a book that's like a reality TV show of like the Greek gods? We might need to. Because I actually think that would be awesome. That would be so cool. Yeah. It feels like, so I'm sure you've been seeing it because I've been posting about it too.

but you follow them as well. But like young rich widows, like it could be very, we could be doing a group project, but like a very campy idea, very specific idea. We should definitely think about it. I'm definitely not against it. That would be funny. Just putting that out there. Yes, no, I'm obsessed with the young rich widows, both like the crew and like those books.

Like those books, the audio books are so good. Yeah. I haven't listened to the second one because I'm just, I know no one thinks I'm like saying I dislike the book when I say, I'm not an audiobook early, but I always feel so bad when I'm like, they're just not for me. I know. I struggle with, I actually struggle with audiobooks too. I listen to a lot of podcasts, but I think it's because like, I'll listen to podcasts throughout

my day sometimes. And if I miss something, I'm like, I missed it. You know what I mean? But if I'm listening to a book, I'd be like, I got to go back. And like, I would never get through an audiobook. This is hilarious because I word for words said that to them in my interview with them. where I was like, guys, I swear, like, I'd like listening to podcasts, but that's because, like, I don't have to retain everything that, like, totally.

It's coming through. But if I'm cleaning and listening to an audiobook, then I'm like, who is this character? I don't remember that being introduced. Totally. Totally. And yeah. I am like, but I could read more if I replace my podcast. And I'm like, no, it just, it just doesn't hit the same for me.

No, it doesn't. That's the only reason I haven't listened to the second one yet. But their first one just came out on books. book on book in paperback. I'm really interested in this weekend. I hear you. It did, it did, which is so exciting. And they're so lovely.

And they had like this cool launch. So like, I know all of the ladies a little bit, but like Lane Fargo and I are like legit friends. She was my pitch for mentor. Like we talk on the phone all the time. She's fabulous. And like she, I know they just had me too. And like she has another one coming out in 2025 called the favorite.

which I think is actually going to be like one of the big books of the year. So, um, but anyway, I know they had this like epic 80s tastic launch for the book and like there were like light up rollerblades involved. Like it just looked like so much fun. They went all in and like watching their press tour and like all of their stories. I'm like, you guys are just living the life. Like, oh yeah. Just like one of the most creative press tours I've seen.

And I think it's just because they're all like all in on it too. but all in on it yeah and I I know um I mean I know all of them are great at this and I know Vanessa Lily in particular is like such a great like marketing whiz um that makes it sound like she's I don't know the but I like I know that she's like she's great so they're all great she's amazing I love her I know well I'm trying to find a segue don't have one do you have any other books on your list that you wanted to mention I do I have two more. Okay.

And so this first one, again, I picked it before I like pulled this book out again. But this one that I'm about to mention, the first quote that I have written down in this book is from this book. So I even like chose this before I like pulled this back out and saw that my childhood self literally wrote a quote from it. But it's called Walk Two Moons by Sharon Creech. Yes. I remember I did but I don't really remember but I can so vividly see the cover. Yes. Like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kind of like mixed texture materials kind of in like a collage. It's pretty cool. So this one probably it is. It's hard to describe. So I'll just kind of read the way the synopsis is set up. How about a story? Spin us a yarn. Graham said.

instantly Phoebe Winterbottom came to mind. I could tell you an extensively strange story. I warned, oh good, Graham said, delicious. And that is how I happened to tell them about Phoebe, her disappearing mother, and the lunatic. As Sal entertains her grandparents with Phoebe's outrageous story, her own story begins to unfold. The story of a 13-year-old girl whose only wish is to be reunited with her missing mother. Aww. So what I remember about it is, I think.

I think the story she's telling also is kind of loosely inspired by how her life has gone. Yeah. So you're kind of seeing like a kid processing that as well. And then there is a there is a mystery element to it too because you're kind of dablin, you're going in and out of like her fictional world and her reality basically. I just remember being so emotional. attached to the character as well. And the quote that really, that I really loves apparently as a kid is one where she says

they looked like dandelions trying to pass as daffodils. Oh, wow. So that was what stuck out to me. I love that. Which is funny and poignant and like says a lot. But I don't remember. This is another one just like Elle Enchanted, where I remember the paperback book, just like wearing out from how many times.

I read it and I just loved it. I do want to reread it. I do too now. Like that's like really like hitting. I'm writing it down. There's some quote in it about like basically not judging anyone until you've walked two moons in their shoes or in their might be moccasins. Might be the actual direct quote.

It's also about a Native American family. That's what I thought I remembered too. Yeah, I like, this is a book. Like, now I can't actually remember if I read it or not, but I certainly remember seeing it around a lot and like knowing a fair amount about it. But I can't like recall the story when I think about it. So now I'm like, I should read it. I should go back and read it.

Yeah, I had loved it. Probably it's very character driven. So I feel like the part of me that really likes character driven, but like still getting reveals and you're still trying to like find some stuff out, I feel like I got some of it from this book for sure. Totally. But yeah. The other one.

Or do you have any more? Yeah. Okay, I'll do my next one. So this is kind of like a roundup of a series, but I was really obsessed with Tamora Pierce. I don't know if you ever read her. She was a fantasy writer. And she had a lots of different series.

They were called like, she had created kind of a universe, the total universe. And they were kind of like medieval times, but there was also. a magic. And the first, the first series of hers that, it might even be her first series, but the one I was really obsessed with first was called the Lioness Chronicles. And it was about this young girl, Alana, who, um, she's a twin. She's got a twin brother and their family is like, she's going to go to a convent and he's going to go learn to become a knight. And they wind up swapping because she's like, I want to be a knight. I'm a badass fighter. And he's like, I want to learn more about the magic that I have. So she, like,

dresses as a boy and like goes and like trains and becomes like the king's like number one night. But like she's dressing and living as a man. But she like not not, um, but she also still feels very much like a woman. And she like falls in love with like the prince and then like lets him in on the secret and stuff. And like that was great. She had another series called the Immortals that was set in the same universe, which was about a girl who had the magic and power to speak to animals and somehow gets involved in kind of this like battle for the kingdom and like I was just so obsessed with those books and like I definitely read more fantasy as a kid than I seem to read now. But I yeah, kind of my mind. I was like, yeah.

Yeah. I know, right? And that's honestly, I'm having the same feeling too where I was like, God, I was so obsessed with those. What happened? Like, why don't I read more of that? But yeah, it was sort like, again, like I see the seeds of why I liked it. It was like this young badass, like tiny feminist girl. Like, I'm not going to stay in the role that you've prescribed for me. There was also, like, you know, horny shenanigans with the prince. Like, you know, all, taking all of my boxes.

It's like very, it's also very Moulon and also she's the man. Like that, so like taming of the shrew. Totally. Yeah. I think it's 12th night. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was reminding of both of those. I love those stories. Totally. Me too. Me too. I know. When you said more appears and then you said she had multiple, I thought, I was like, wait, I did,

but I think she started getting recommended to me after I, and this was not on my list. Again, these are all just popping up. There was a book called Into the, a series called Into the Land of the Unicorns that I got so obsessed with. I'm writing that down. Like this girl named Kara. Hmm. Let's see. Well, it says as each chime sounds, Kara climbs faster up the steep bell tower. 11. She must be on the roof when the next bell tolls. 12. With a deep breath and only half believing she will survive, Kara jumps off the church roof and into Luster, the land of the unicorns.

In Luster, Kara meets many wonderful creatures, but the most magnificent of all is Lightfoot, a rebellious young unicorn. Kara's brand of friends comes to include a hairy creature named the Dimble Thumb, and the monkey like squidge him. Together they set out to reach the unicorn queen before the mysterious man who is following them does to prevent the destruction of all unicorns forever. I think.

Okay, I love that. Kind of Narnia-esque, but with unicorns. Because then like it's a series. And I remember reading Song of the Wanderer, which was the next one, and then Dark Whispers and the Last Hunt. But it's so cool. She just like jumped

into a fantasy world. And I was dead. That's amazing. And also when you first read that, I was like, did she just jump off and die and have like a hallucination in the last moments of life? But like, that's a dark place to take a children's book. Right. As a adult, that might be how we perceive it.

Totally. It also makes me think of, did you ever see the movie? And again, this came out in mid-80s. So it was like, came out before I was born, certainly before you were born. But like, the last unicorn, it is like a notoriously dark fantasy movie. Like back when they were making fantasy movies that they were like, like we got a we got to frame some children and like there's like it's it's got a great cast it's like fay done away and our mia farro maybe actually um and jeff bridges and it's like this the last

unicorn alive on earth gets turned into a woman and is like trying to find the rest of the unicorns like where have they gone and like it's on this magical quest and then there's this like red bull that's chasing her and like it is very scary and dark and i try to talk to talk to to people about this all the time and like seemingly no one else has watched this movie because I like I'll say it to my friends and they're like, I'm like a fever dream you had, you know, like. Right. But I haven't watched it, but you have my attention.

Yes. And it's got a phenomenal soundtrack. Yeah. So just saying if you ever see that out in the wild, it might be worth a watch if you appreciate some unicorn lore. Yeah. Apparently it really is dawning on me. I read a little bit more fantasy.

but I do think there is more like, as I feel like a lot of ours, even your historical fiction, it's almost like there was more room in those genres for females to be strong leads. Totally. Not to be sad or say this is exactly it, but like in reality, maybe that wasn't as possible or as thought of. Totally. Totally. Or that like, I think you're right. I think you're on to something there, that there were spaces or like that even things could be more. addressed head-on from a different angle. Like a kind of maybe like contemporary

YA couldn't necessarily get it sort of like the feminine, like the, the, the Alana books, the like the Lioness Chronicles or whatever those were called by Tamor Pierce, like, you know, is set in a different time. And it's like a time when women can't do this stuff, but it's still like speaking to something that we're going through today. And like because they're coming at it from an angle,

like maybe could weave that in there in a way that like would have felt pre-gee if it was just like a contemporary you know yeah i think you're right yeah it's interesting i'm like i nothing against um a court of thorns and roses i know that is like the big fantasy one right now totally i know that it kind of gets a little bit more into turning into like fairy smut which is part not that i'm against it either it's just part of why like i have wanted to dive into a series that long when like i know some of the books is mostly that so but i want to look at other other fantasy now that we're having this conversation i'm like what maybe there is stuff out there that like i just haven't tried and maybe it would be a quarter thorns and roses you never know

totally totally i actually haven't read the accotar books yet either um even though despite you know based on our conversation today you think it's right up my alley because it's horny fairies but like uh yeah that's what everyone says is like basically like fairy smut and I'm like okay yeah you do you I was I did have like a funny um run in with my friend uh sorry Jess uh to call you out on a podcast but um a couple months ago we were going to like our friends like a birthday dinner for um our mutual friend and I she picked me up in her car and I get in and she's been listening to like the Akitar books on audio book and it's like an extremely dirty part. And so I get in and I'm just hearing like the most filthy things. And I was like, I feel like, you have this dinner going to go. Yeah, like, what are, what are we doing? And she was like,

oh, sorry. That's amazing. Yeah, I like, I like, take talks with that sometimes when people are like, when I forget that like, this is like linked up to my car and my friend gets in with me. And you're just like, yeah. Yep. Oh, we did. And I'll be honest with you. I was like, we can keep it on. You're right. I'm fine listening. Let's just figure it out. Okay. What's the next book on your list?

So I have a couple from this author. I got way into Madeline Lingle. Oh, yeah. I loved a wrinkle in time so much. Basically, one wild night, a strange visitor comes to the Murray house and beckons Meg, her brother, Charles Wallace, and their friend Calvin O'Keefe, on a most dangerous and extraordinary adventure,

one that will threaten their lives and our universe. It's actually a part of a quintet, five books. But definitely, like, my first experience with time travel, which I still, oh my gosh, I still love. Blake Crouch's, dark matter. Definitely still one of my favorite books.

not directly time travel, but it's like multi universes and stuff. So, yeah, I don't know all the, I can't really remember all of the adventures that they necessarily go on, but I still love something where, love a book where you play with time. And for my, for my second show until here. Yay! Then when I wrote a book in fourth grade, I wrote a book called Time Cave. Oh, my God. Amazing. It even informed what I basically wanted to write.

And it's kind of funny. I'll include some of these here. But like, definitely an author, not an illustrator. But that's my time. It kind of looks like, what's it? Like the Doctor Who, but like read. Yeah. I can't think of what it's called.

But yes. Yeah, what is it called? TARDIS, the TARDIS. The TARDIS. Yeah. Yes. And this is like my depiction. of them moving in time was just some circles around them.

Amazing. Amazing. Oh my God, that's so cool. I know. I totally, I really, really, I really do like books that play with time still. That typically works for me. But she also had a book that I reread over and over and over again called A Ring of Endless Light. That actually is kind of similar to the into the land of the unicorns a little bit because it's like connections with animals. But it's basically this girl named Vicky. I'm pretty sure this was turned into a Disney channel movie as well. So this girl named Vicky, she lives in New York City with her family, the Austin's, but they like have to go out to spend the summer on this really small island where her grandpa lives because he's sick and his condition is basically getting worse. So they're just

going to spend the whole summer with him. But then she also, finds herself in a little bit of a love triangle with, I think she's like 15 or 16, maybe older, with Zachary Gray, a troubled bad boy. Of course. And Adam Edington. Right, because he's neither white, he's neither light nor dark, you know, like he's in the middle morally. Yeah. Yeah.

And, um, but then she also has this like friendship growing with Adam Eddington because he is either a marine by he's he's helping at like a marine biologist place um and so he's been asking her to help with his research on dolphins um i'm going to give spoilers away she finds out she can talk to dolphins amazing practically amazing so then it's also like kind of like a coming of age story just with all of that going on as well but i think i watch the movie a lot i think i read this book a something that has worked for me. I love that. I think I watched the movie too.

Was it Misha Barton? I think so. Played the girl. Yeah, on the like Disney, Disney classics that they would do like every Friday night or whatever. Yes, it is. It's Misha. Yes.

Jared Padalecky was Zachary Gray, the Badgeray. Oh, yeah. And Ryan Merriman was Adam Eddington. Oh, Ryan Merriman. I feel like he was one of those guys. who was like always in the um yeah the Disney movies I think so too yeah but I was so fixated on this movie I remember being super into it too I don't know that I ever read the book actually but maybe I should go back and read it but I remember really liking the movie too yeah yeah it was

really good she's such an awesome author too she wrote so many books oh totally and like like deep classics like a wrinkle in time I would say is like one of the like most iconic like children's books like ever written, you know? Right. Yeah. Deep impact. She's so cool. For sure. Amazing. Do you have any more? I have one last one, which this book, I don't remember reading. It didn't have quite the same emotional impact on me as some of the other ones that I've mentioned, but it had this really cool concede that I still think about as an adult. And it was called from the mixed up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler by E.L. Conigsberg. And so the story about this one, and I can see it's ringing a bell for you, is that there's this girl who runs away from home.

She doesn't feel appreciated. And she and her younger brother go and they live at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. And they get kind of embroiled in this mystery around this painting. And they're trying to like do research and discover if it's like a long last Michelangelo painting and they like find this woman who had donated it and like there's she has like all the answers to the mystery. But what I remember most vividly was just that like a big part, I guess what we would call now like if you're breaking out by beats like the fun and games beat is that they're living in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. And I was like goals. You know, like still to this day kind of like goals. Like I'm not like they used to what they would do as I

remember was at closing time they would go into the bathroom and they would like get on a toilet stall and like pull their feet up so that nobody could see them. And I was like convinced that like, yep, you could just stay in a music. That would work. Totally would work. I'm not sure and it wouldn't. I haven't tried it. Maybe I should. You know what I mean? Like, but it was, uh, and then they would like go and like sleep in like one of the beds or exhibits or something. And it was so cool. And I actually, this is like I hadn't made this connection. But when I first moved to LA years ago, one of the first things that I did was the Natural History Museum would host adult sleepovers. And so I went and did that and it was really cool. So I did get to sleep in a museum for a night one, which was fun. Yeah.

That is such a cool idea. It really was. And so you had like scavenger hunts. You had like different things to keep you like occupied and like it was really cool. You got to sleep in like one of the exhibits. And then at like 7 a.m. they'd be like, all right, you got to get out because we got to open the museum. But it was really cool. But they, um, they, um, they, um, um, they, um, um, they, um, um, they, um, um, No longer do that because too many people were doing inappropriate things in various parts of the museum. So. But I'm like, bring it back, you know. No.

It was really fun. Yeah, totally. It was fun. So that's when you said it, I was like, I even knew the weird like E.L. Conigsberg name. Yes. I was like, yes, yes, I did read this one. And the cover.

Yeah. It was so cool I do remember also like getting really intrigued by the idea of like Staying in a Walmart overnight Oh yeah totally like what was that from beyond Yeah there was the They made it into a movie with Natalie Portman Something about home

Yeah she lives in one Yeah she like lives in a Walmart Well she's like pregnant I don't remember exactly what it's called but we're gonna get it where the heart is where the heart is yeah yeah i forgot about that one it is so interesting and then like um night at the museum also kind of a derivative as well yeah totally yeah just like being in places overnight that yeah or that you aren't traditionally at totally like getting to to live in a different world sort of yeah yeah which has also been kind of a theme yeah for sure for sure

What about you? Do you have any more on your list? You wanted to mention? Okay, we did it. I mean, I had some bonus ones, even two that came up that I probably would have even thought of. That was like I don't mean, too, trip down memory lane. I know I loved this. Thank you for having this conversation with me. This was so fun. I loved it. I like, well, I'm glad that this is crazy how it all comes back from like you asking me the question. Totally. What do I want to know about more book to grammars? And then you're like, what if we did an episode? So it's kind of a meta. It's a meta episode. It is, but I'm so glad we did. And I'm so glad you asked that. I mean, it was like, yeah. And then it made me think about like books that I've loved. And then we got to have this conversation. Like, this was just really fun. It was really fun to get to do this and talk about it. And I kind of now it's going to live farther forward in my brain, which I like to, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And if anyone's listening and one, loved any of the books, I think both of us would happily DM and talk to you about them. Oh, for sure. So, like, into my DMs. If you have any other random memories of like, oh, I loved this one. Did you guys read this one? Totally. I was not about that too. Yes, please, please, please.