Bookwild - The Divine Feminine, Matriarchy and Dreams: Andrea M. Butler's Mother

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

This week, I talk with Andrea M. Butler about her debut speculative fiction Mother. We dive into a wide range of topics, including: The origin of the novel’s idea Dreams and spiritual communication Energy work and spirituality Speculative fiction grounded in reality The “predictive” nature of fiction Capitalism, wealth inequality, and food insecurity Religion and evangelical culture Community as resistance Divine feminine energy Hope through storytelling   Mother by Andrea M. Butler Synopsis Having gained control of the world’s food supply, a single corporation, SunRay, holds the fate of humanity in its hands. When the government passed the HOME Act and sent millions of immigrants away, it threw the nation into an unprecedented economic crisis. Set in the near future amidst the backdrop of an increasingly volatile climate, Matt and Evie Fisher are struggling to survive. In order to find a way to save their two daughters, Matt and Evie must wrestle with their faith, their past, and a mysterious illness affecting much of the population. When a series of otherworldly dreams sets Evie on a path to find a mystical portal, and Matt finds himself in possession of information that could topple SunRay and the political network behind it, Evie realizes she is being offered a choice that could not only save her daughters, but could alter the fate of humanity forever.   Check Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mba 

This week I got to talk with Andrea M. Butler about her debut speculative fiction novel, Mother. It is the first of a series, and I was burning through it. It is so good. Here's the synopsis. Having gained control of the world's food supply, a single corporation, Sunray, holds the fate of humanity in its hands. When the government passed the Home Act and sent millions of immigrants away, it threw the nation into unprecedented economic crisis. Set in the near future amidst the backdrop of an increasingly volatile climate, Matt and Evie Fisher are struggling to survive. In order to find a way to save their two daughters, Matt and Evie must wrestle with their faith, their past, and a mysterious illness affecting most of the population. When a series of otherworldly dreams sets Evie on a path to find a mystical portal, and Matt finds himself in possession of information that could topple Sunray in the political network behind it, Evie realizes she is being offered a choice that could not only save her daughters, but could alter the fate of humanity forever.

I really loved the way that Andrea approached talking about faith and talking about healing and talking about energy while talking about some of the social issues that we are up against right now and how harmful they can and will be. We had a really great conversation about how matriarchy could change our society so much. much and what you do when the faith community that was so important to you at one point no longer feels safe and loving. Really, if you like speculative fiction and you think we should topple the patriarchy, you're going to love this one. So let's hear from Andrea. Well, I am super excited to talk with you about mother. As I was thinking about, I was like, that is the full title, right? Yeah. Mother. I love it.

I mean, it sums it up. It really does sum it up, not to give anything away. But I do always want to get to know, like, a little bit about you before we dive into the book. So what was your journey to writing? Yeah. Growing up, I was an avid reader. And I was always involved in the arts, but I was more involved in performing. And I never really got to spend time writing. fast forward many many years my husband and i we just love to talk about the world and the future and he's in politics and so we talk a lot about what are what are things going to look like and we have a lot of kids and so we're thinking we have seven combined wow yeah so six at home still but that's a lot yeah so we're constantly thinking about what is their life going to be like. What kind of world are we creating for them? What, what are we, what are we pushing them towards? So we were at the beach a few years ago and, you know, we do this a lot. We come up with stories and he loves film. So he thinks more in that, and that way. And of course,

I love learning. So I'm thinking more writing. And he was like, you know, do you have a piece of paper? Get out, get out something. And let's take some notes. Yeah. We spent all day dreaming about, I mean, the question really was, if things are going the way we think they're going to go. How is this world going to look for our children when they are adults and have their own families? And what will help us? What will save us? And then, of course, you know, we had to throw in aliens.

This was two years ago. And I start writing. And it's just, it's been a really crazy thing. to see that the things that I put on the page, either a few weeks or a few months later, come to fruition in real life. And when that started happening, I realized that this wasn't my story. This is our story. And I just said yes to it.

But I really think it is in some ways a bit of a divine love letter that we are not alone. that there is hope for all of us. And we are seen and known by powers greater than what is here and ourselves. And that was coming through. And so I just kept, kept plugging along. Yeah. That's so cool. And you can, if I, the reader or the listeners probably haven't read it necessarily yet. But when you do read it, the like sitting and talking about the future between like the husband and life like the second you started saying that i was like oh i already like remember scenes like that in the book so that's that's really unique that it just i mean i know ideas come from everything but that you guys are just kind of talking yeah and then it evolved into something that's really cool yeah did you did you end up

like outlining it from there like where the ideas just like were you just like jotting down ideas that you guys kept coming back to or like how did it develop from there yeah um i really started with the dreams. And in the book, Evie is communicated to through dreams. And my personal work is in, I have a very strange career. It has been, I'm an energy worker. Started out with Reiki. Some of your listeners are familiar with. That was how, that was how I learned I was hypermobile was seeing a massage therapist who did Reiki. Yes. Yes. Okay. So Reiki is so cool, Because I think when we really boil it down, it is just teaching you how to read energy. And that's all that it is.

To give and receive energy and to read it and to decode it. And so my world sort of exploded maybe six or seven years ago when I really started doing Reiki. And that has grown into a variety of modalities, healing modalities that I use. And I work with clinical therapists. So we have a really interesting thing that we do. And that gave me so much insight into humans and also our relationship with spirituality and our relationship with the beyond just in general. And I'm still sort of grow.

I mean, obviously I'm growing. I'm learning. I'm developing all sorts of new ideas about the universe every day. But one of the things that I thought was sort of cool was that we really do get communicated. to in our dreams. And this is throughout history. People get divine inspiration in dreams, people get messages in dreams, old friends or loved ones who have passed visit us in our dreams. So I started with what would it be like if someone like me, a mom with kids and who's just struggling every day just to make it work, started getting messages from something other.

Something may be divine, something maybe extraterrestrial, something that I can't pinpoint that feels so real that are giving me just a regular person an opportunity to change this world and to change my family. What would I do? Yeah. And so I started there. That's why the prologue is a dream. Of course, my editor was like, everybody starts their book with a dream. And I was like, I don't care. But I know what they meant. He or she. I don't care.

I was like, this is the one piece of advice I'm going to fight you on. I know. And some people, some, I've heard some editors are very specific about hating prologs or being okay with them. Well, she actually created the idea of the prologues so that I could put the dream there. So that was our compromise. Oh, that's good. But yes. So I started with the dreams.

And then my, like I said, my husband's in the political sphere. He's also a police officer. We both have extremely interesting and odd work histories and lives that have culminated, really, to all the things that are in this book. Right. Yeah. And you're both in the service industries, too. Yes. Yes.

And so it really, when I took the dreams and I took sort of the feminine experience of, I mean, not just motherhood, but just being a woman in this time. in this economy, in this culture, in this world. What is it like? The pressures that we're under, but also the power that we have. Right. That I think a lot of us are really waking up to in a different way. Yeah. And then pairing that with the masculine experience.

And really, it is this discussion, I think, of both. And how powerful the difference. divine feminine is, how powerful our energy is, and how we're all sort of seeing that we need more female energy in this world right now. May I argue, please. Yes, exactly. And so then what is the role of the masculine in that? And I think you can very clearly see that in the relationship between Matt and Evie,

especially at the end of the book. And so that was a huge thing that we were, we talk about that a lot, just to. general. Yeah. And so then that was their journey as a couple is how can him as the sort of a masculine, in some ways he's a little bit of a stereotype. But then not. Yeah, it's not like the total alpha male stereotype. Yes, exactly. And then how can that energy support Evie on her on her mission? Right. And so we, we, we, we, we. we well we and i specifically my my favorite part of this was writing the characters um and so he was he helped me a lot with action because i'll get real stuck just writing um a long piece about how someone

feels yeah both my editor and him were like um no one's doing anything for four things it's kind of that balance like it does have a literary fiction feel to it but it does well in the crazy thing when I was thinking about it, like sci-fi fantasy as a, which is so crazy, truly, that those are still, like, lumped together. Like, they typically, like, sometimes you get a genre mashup, but they're pretty distinct. Anyway, even, even calling it, like, sci-fi, we're, like, hearing we might learn about the aliens here soon. So, like, at the same time, it's almost like how far out, like, kind of what you were saying, like, you'd write it and then things were coming to fruition. I have to tell you the craziest thing.

And this, I always come back to this because, and I'm not saying this to be like, I have divine information. No. I'm saying this because I think we all are, we all have access to more information than we think we do. And that we are really sharing a consciousness in a large sense. We, oh, well, I wrote the, there's a, there's a portion in it with a big mudslide. big flood. And my best friend is from Asheville. And so I was constantly asking her about the city. I'm not from there, but it felt right to place the story there. Yeah. And so she was a wonderful resource for me. And I asked her like, are there ever floods? She was like, I don't know, not in my lifetime.

I think maybe there was right before I was born. It does sometimes flood in the valley because it's mountains, but she was like, flooding isn't like a huge thing. Okay. So I don't know if you remember the huge flood that happened in the Asheville area. And I think it was Hurricane Helene that maybe came through. Yeah, was that 2020. No, it was like four or five. Okay. It was even more reason. Yeah. I couldn't remember. It may even been just been last year. You're right. I need to look that up. But time is weird right now. I wrote the story of the flood in Asheville two weeks. before it happened. Wow.

I know. And so that to me is not, again, like, that's not to say that I'm special. That's to say that there are a lot of us right now that, especially women, who are being given creative tasks and we are being given stories and giving poems and songs and all of these things to help really give. this world hope. And I think that a lot of us are being divinely guided in that journey. Because there is, there is so much to feel hopeless about. Yeah. So I think that the, the divine feminine is really being breathed into right now. Yeah. By each other and by the

universe. And, and so that to me was just a sign to keep going. Yeah. I'll tell you what's hard to do. It's hard to write a book with six kids and a job. I like to imagine. I have none and I haven't completed a book yet. It's really hard. In some ways, I will say in some ways because there's pressure and because you're like, okay, I have four hours. You have to fit it in.

You have to do it. And so it's almost like a push. But I think that like, I mean, there were certainly times when I just felt like, I'm never going to finish this, especially the end of the process. Oh, yeah. Because this is my first novel. And so the the first draft was, I mean, God bless my editor. She just is wonderful. Yeah. And she really was teaching me. I basically, I feel like she gave me a college degree in writing in the editing process. Because my degree is not in writing. My degree is in theater. And so. Oh, yeah. It also helps. It helps the storytelling of the characters, but not be like, technicalities of writing. Right. So it helped me so much. But there were definitely times that I just thought, I mean, the timeline is just going to be five years before I get this thing somewhere. And if it was, that's fine. But those little moments of recognition or like with ice right now,

right about that. Like we created a group that we, I mean, we call it the IHF, but it's the same thing. And so I think that like there were times that I felt to like, oh, shoot, all this stuff is happening. And then I'm going to get the workout and people are going to be like, oh, she wrote about what's happening right now. Oh, I know. And whatever. I don't, it's fine. And you kind of did. Like you were just writing about where we were headed like when you were writing it.

Right. And it's like not that hard to imagine. I mean, two years ago it wasn't hard to imagine that. we got a new, this new president that we were going to see mass deportations. Like that wasn't a hard thing to guess. No, no, no, no, no. That's really talked about. Yes.

And so, I mean, that, that actually was the big question that I was really interested in. What will happen if we send all of the immigrants away? And I know. And so I started doing research of the different industries that would suffer. And, you know, a lot of it. obviously is unpredictable. Yeah. But it was very, very clear to me and just a little bit of research that I did that it was

going to cause a lot of instability. Oh, yeah. And I mean, I was listening to NPR yesterday and how they're building all of these new holding facilities. Yeah. All over the country, they're taking warehouses and turning them into holding facilities for people that are basically inhumane. And so this is where we're headed.

And in some ways, the book, yes, in some ways it paints a little bit of a bleak picture of where we might end up in 30, 40 years. However, our brains do better with the known than the unknown. And so even if it's hard, it's better for us to go, all right, where are we headed? Because then we can plan. Then we can go. how do we get ourselves out of this? How do we support each other through it? So, you know, it's speculative fiction, I suppose.

That's probably, yeah, that's the better, I would put it there for sure. Yes. Yeah, I'm, it's like my, this book is like a Venn diagram. Many different genres, which, you know, whatever, I think. That's what I enjoy and I feel like it's getting more popular to have genre mashups. too. So, hopefully it's a good thing. I mean, the genres existed because of the culture at the time and the culture is changing all the time. So the genres have to change too. That's a good point. And so our art is constantly shifting to reflect us. So I didn't try too hard to try to fit it into any specific thing.

Yeah. I mean, you shouldn't. I've talked to plenty of people who are like, I don't know what genre it is. I write it and then like my publicist tells me or my editor. tells me. So I think there are a lot of people that don't go into it, like, super sure of what they're going to write. Well, um, you go ahead. I also think that when you're creating art, or even in my work, my work of spirituality, like I, I choose to not have a title and I choose to not have one particular mode, um, because we're always evolving. Um, yeah. And so I never want to pigeonhole myself because even subconsciously, I'm afraid that will affect the way that I let spirit flow through me.

And so with my art, and I think with any art, I think that it's very important that we don't go, I am and then this. I am a science fiction writer. Okay, well, what is spirit wants to flow, you know, a book of recipes through you? Yeah, right. I can't. I know. So I don't believe in that.

And so I didn't let it affect me in any way. And is it harder to right now? Is it harder to market? Probably. But that's my publisher's job. In mine, maybe. Yeah. I'll deal with that mess that I make.

Yeah, that's really, it's insightful. And I do think kind of what you're saying, you're not saying like you're a divine Messiah, but it does mean you can't be attached to energy. And actually I was just yesterday, I just interviewed the, from your publisher, Keith, and then a few of the contributors for quantum theology. Awesome. Yeah. And we were just talking about interconnectedness and like how important it is and how you can. It seems like you're predicting the future, but it may just be that you're like tuned in and paying attention.

Yes. Yes. And, you know, I do think time isn't what we think it is and how we actually experience it. And we're learning about that with physics and quantum physics specifically. And so things are more of a circle than a line. And so a lot of us are perceiving of things or getting information about things that are next to us in the circle. but we experience it linearly. Yeah. And so I have this happen in my like practice all the time with clients and myself and whatever. And I think that the there is a bit of an opening up. Yeah.

Understanding. Yeah. And that is being supported by science the whole way. What used to be mysticism is really now provable with data in a variety of ways. and it's happening so quickly, particularly the study of consciousness. Yes. And so for me, it isn't, you know, what might have been like, you are chosen. And so you, you know, you're a profit.

Now it's just like, we're all just regular people. We're receiving information if we're open to it. And we all can't receive that information. Yeah. And so in our storytelling sometimes, I think we are perceiving of the thing next to us and the circle. And it just looks like it's ahead of us. But really what it's doing is it's helping ourselves and others prepare for what is

to come. Totally. It kind of explains history repeating itself as well. What you're talking about there. Until the loop closes, it plays over and over again. Yes, that is. It's just, I, I've just been trying to learn all, like all the history of truly, I'm trying to slowly learn even outside of the U.S. because there's so much that was restricted

in what we're typically taught in U.S. schools. But the more I learn, the more I'm like, it all repeats. And like if we could all kind of collectively be aware of that, we could probably stop. Yes. Some of the violence at least, you would hope. Yes. We could predict it. And it's really when you look, when you are looking, when you're looking under the rug or behind the curtains and you're looking at all the real history. That's the guidebook of what you do. Exactly. And what to do. Yes.

I think there are many, many of us who are doing that and then reporting it. Yeah. We can fix this because we can. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And sometimes fiction is an easier way to talk about certain topics, I think. And not everyone wants to even ever read nonfiction.

So I think that I think that's why fiction can help so much that way. So you, we've talked about you really liked the character building. And it's very much like a story that does grapple with like faith and like how do you have faith in hope and in situations that are really dire. But it is a really full cast of characters. And I do feel like some of the names, if not all, are very biblical. And was that on purpose? That's interesting. I had not, you're the first person to bring that up.

Oh, my gosh, really? Yeah. I was like Eve or Evie so close to Eve. We have Matt. We have Josh, James. I was like, these are the Bible names. That's so funny. So most of the names come from my real life.

Oh, wow. My daughter's name is Evangeline. Okay. And so we don't call her. Well, one of her sisters calls her Evie, but it just was an easy name, you know. So you'll also notice that they're all short. Yes. I'm not going to be typing a long name, multiple.

I love that. Never. Yeah. None of those are ever going to have a name that's more than like five letters. And so, like, Lizzie was long enough. That was too. Yeah. But they're all names from my friends.

I call, we have like a very tight-knit group of like friends, our community, and I call it our family. So our family is what really inspired a lot of the names. That's cool. And not all the characters have anything to do with the corresponding person with that name, which I had to tell everybody. I was like, okay, there's a character named after your son and it's not. him. I just like the name.

Yes. Well, that's cool. Sometimes that happens. I had that happen with, there's a book called No Road Home, and he named, he named something that was so similar to Gomorrah. And it was a place where, like, people were being, like, incredibly terrible to each other. And I was like, so did you name it that? Well, it was a televangelist family. I was like, did you name it that on purpose? He was like, I didn't even realize. that. So apparently I'm just finding stuff everywhere. No, I mean, I'm sure that's what it is, right? Because everything has a, I mean, in my work, everything has an energetic frequency, right? And so I'm sure that a lot of the names that I picked have to do with what I associate with that name. Right. Or it's even just that your community may have just been influenced by the fact that those are names too. And it's, you know, I guess it probably does give me, a little bit of a starting point for the character to give it to give the character a name

that already means something to me in some way. So it's a little bit less of a blank canvas. Yeah. And I used to, I'm not an artist, but I, there was a period of time where I was painting. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I couldn't paint on a blank canvas. I couldn't. I had to go find something like a piece of wood or like I just wasn't inspired enough by yeah yeah and so when I see artists create and I'm like I'm like how did you do that so yeah I think what I do is I borrow um I like to put things together that already have some grit to them some stories yeah meaning to them um and maybe that's cheating but it's how I do it yeah and I don't think that's cheating I think however you create art is like however you create your art basically. I'm more of a collage artist then.

There you go. Or like you're not so. So the story is like there we've kind of talked about some of the things. There's there's some food insecurity. There the immigrants are getting deported in mass numbers. And I mean, there are many other things. But just what I was kind of saying, it's almost contemporary fiction. Like it is speculative, but it's almost contemporary. Yes. So were there reasons you were drawn to talking about those topics? Or was it kind of just the conversations that you were having, like you mentioned?

Yeah. I think when you think about what really, and this is going to start getting into the second book, but what really drives people in history. like you were talking about, to fight for themselves and for each other. And there's pretty much one thing that has caused every revolution. And it is hunger. And I think, I mean, if you think about being hangary, that's a legitimate biological mechanism. And I think that a lot of us don't get, we don't get to the point where we're willing,

to put everything on the line until there's no food. Right. And then we're different. We're hanging. And so I was thinking what would build up to that? How would we get to that point? Where we are now completely dependent. So there's a scarcity that you're dealing with the stress of scarcity already. As a society, they were all dependent on one company, one single company for food. And so that's not good for your nervous system or your spirit. Because what if something happens? And that's what we saw, right? There's a huge mudslide.

It messes up the production of food in that area. And so that area realizes how fragile their food system is. Yeah. And it's almost impossible with the climate in most parts of the country to grow food, which is why this monopoly came to be. because they created a technology that allowed them to build greenhouses and grow tons and tons of in the greenhouses because it was just all the farms had to basically foreclose. And so I wanted to go ahead and get us 80% of the way to really the people taking action

against this government and this monopoly that is controlling them. and keeping them eating out of their hands. And so food insecurity was really important because it's also very, very real. And it's already happening. And it's happening to a broader range of socioeconomic groups than we think it is. I mentioned before that my husband,

while he is in politics, he's also police officer in Durham, North Carolina. and and he's again there's that's a whole story but we see a lot of poverty and we see hunger and we see a lot of food insecurity just around the corner from a oh yeah especially since SNAP has been massively defunded yes so the way the country is moving is to it seems like remove a lot of government aid. And I know, because I was on government assistance for after a very difficult time in my life many years ago, I had little kids for a while.

And I would not have been able to feed my children. Yeah. Or not for that. And I was working a full-time job. Right. So this is not about not people not wanting to work. about the fact that the wages have stayed the same and all the costs have gone up and the gap between the people with money and us is widening every single day and we're seeing that evidence of that

everywhere and this this is what happens when capitalism goes awry and if it has and we are dealing with that and there doesn't seem to be anybody trying to stop it. And so what will happen, right? When we can buy food anymore, when we, and if the climate gets to a place where we can't grow food anymore, what are we going to do? So, I mean, these are just real life things that I'm seeing in my world right now. And to think, okay, since we don't have anyone trying to fix this from a systematic level, They're, of course, wonderful people in room that are helping people get food.

And there are, you know, there's all sorts of things that happen in our kids' schools and where you can pick up a bag of food on the weekend. But we're not seeing anything from the level to actually stop. Right. We're just putting a Band-Aid on what now is like a stab wound and not, you know, we're bleeding out down here. Yes. Yeah. And so where are we going to be? How are our kids going to live? And I think, you know, there were times I thought, am I just being really pessimistic about how things are going to go?

But no, because I look back in history. You know, I look back at the times when it were, I mean, French Revolution fall through the empire. There were many, many other times when the powerful became so detached and so powerful and held. And there's probably a tipping point where if the billionaire class, or at the time, you know, the royalty or whatever it was, the landowners had a certain percentage of the wealth. It's almost impossible unless they decide to give it back for the rest of the country to be able to create equality. We can't. So the only thing we can do is tear it down. Yeah. Yeah. It gets to that point. It does get to that point.

Yeah. In that context, you got you kind of grapple with it in your book too is it's happened in, it's happened across history as well with multiple religions. Anytime like a society itself is starting to be controlled by like fundamentalism or authoritarian versions of any religion. Yes. Things get bad. Yes. And then it kind of becomes easy for some leaders to definitely not be of that religion or be very spiritual, but say they are and then get that people in a certain religion to vote is where I'm headed with that. And I feel like you tackled how confusing and conflicting that has to be for people in that religion who are like, my faith means so much to me. but now like someone saying this is what my faith should look like and that doesn't line up for me. So was that kind of coming from the conversations you guys were even having to? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I grew up in the evangelical world deep in the evangelical world. And that journey, I always was sort of questioning things and on the fringe of that. But then I definitely. left. I mean, I was working in churches until 2020, 2020. So not that long ago. I was still involved in churches, except for at that point, I was working in a far more progressive space. Right. And I still, like, that's a wonderful church that I was working at. Yeah. But it was confusing to me because I'm in the South and I grew up in an extremely Republican evangelical world and it's it is impossible to pull one out of the other. Yeah. Yeah. Especially, I mean, not even especially now. It's always been like that

in the South. It's always been like that in the South. And now we're saying that. And there are so many reasons why a political party would choose this breed of Christianity. It glorifies money. It glorifies wealth in a different way. Prosperity gospel. Yes. It also is very like a works-based idea that you have to earn your way. Yes.

And that if you're basically if you're wealthy, then you're blessed. blessed by God. And if you're not, then. And so that, that allows for scapegoating, that, that sort of bending of theology. And it's so crazy because it's like, have you read the sermon on the mountain? But like, nobody cares. No, they're like, let's go to the Old Testament. I'm like, what? Yeah. So I think basically this really, I don't even, want to use the word water down. I want to say like bastardized version right of Christianity is used to justify yeah terrible terrible things and people have hid behind this and used it for war,

used it for oppression for probably since like three or four hundred a.D. So it's an old tradition that we have of, I mean, using it for colonization, using it for slavery, using it for the oppression of women, because we are using poorly translated words to be fit whatever the culture is that we want and to benefit us. And so what, what I think the Bible actually is, is not at all what it's being used for. Right. And it's real hard to fight that. They'll say it's sacred.

Yes. And so as somebody who went through that process of where do I land here? Because I'm down with Jesus. I'm down with Jesus. The spirit. But the rest of that. stuff. I don't know what to do with. And that was my whole life. You know, right. That was same. My whole life. Um, a lot of my friends come from my time in church. So we've all heard through this

journey together. And then now we're raising children. And we're like, what do we teach them? Do we go to church? Yeah. You know, so it's, it's a constant question. And I think that the, the, the thing that I thought was really interesting was how so many people that I know, and you might be one of these people, we have family members that are still deep in it. Oh, yeah. And so it's like, okay, how do you engage in meaningful discourse and relationships with people who are still part of something that you see as oppressive, or that you see as having a hand in actual harm. And so that's something that thing that my husband and I and all of our friends have to deal with. Yeah.

And there's no easy answer. And I think you see this in the Thanksgiving dinner with this family that sort of evolves into chaos because you can pretend as much as you want to that homeless family and blood is thicker than water or whatever. But these things, this is not just my personal religion. this is the whole worldview that is now being used to frame absolutely every political decision that is made. And so it's really, really hard to not see that in the people that are using it because it's not just like, you know, sometimes you find out that people are like deeply spiritual and you had no idea because they just never. Yeah.

And it's like a welcome surprise. They're like an altar and you're like, what? Yes, yes. That's not how it is now. I've been having the opposite experience. Like people I thought would never say some of the things they've said to me are saying things. And I'm like, I had a moment where I was freaking out a little bit because I was like, how did I not catch this?

How did I not see this? Like, how did I not see this in this person? It was freaking me out so much. But thankfully reading helps me like kind of ground myself and understand things. So I just, I think. you know, the thing that I think people like us, we need community and we don't necessarily have the church anymore. But we still do have, a lot of us do have some version of connection with Jesus or with God. I call God's source. Yeah. We do have a true and genuine because we are spirits. I believe

we are spirits. So we feel connected to the beyond. And we just, don't have community around that anymore. Maybe you can get it in a yoga class or, you know, a different religious path. Yeah. Might be more, might jive better with your current way of seeing the world. But a lot of us out here are, we're not really ex-Christians. Right. We're just the theology of the day and the way the church is working is not what we believe in

anymore. And so we don't have each other anymore. Right. Right. And we're so many of us are going through this experience where we still have. And I have in my practice, I have so many clients that helps me like this. And I think, I think they're being brought to me intentionally. Like, I think that yeah. And I know from my, my therapy partner, she gets a lot of clients like that too, where we have this faith that at times has meant so much to us. Right. And it has been so valuable. And we can't throw it away, but we don't know what to do with it.

Right. And we're not getting a lot of guidance on how to move forward in this world with this faith that feels very true, but it looks very, very different than the people that we grew up with. Yeah. And there's a bit of grief in that. I think there's grief from Matt and Evie because they left the church. We lost a lot of friends.

They, and I mean, I think what's interesting is a lot of us, too, we, it's easier for us to say, oh, wow, that was so disordered. Oh, wow, that was so fucked up my childhood. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I don't know if I can. No, you can. You can. Like, I can't believe how bad and wrong they got it.

But what about the love that was there? The real genuine love that we felt sometimes. Right. The real friendships. The real kindness that people had. And the good things that they were doing for their communities, you can't grow it away. You just, you can't go.

Oh, that was dumb. Right. And so I think that's something that they're grappling with in the book. what do we do in these beautiful memories and these beautiful people that were part of our lives that are still right here in our community. Yeah. But at this point, ideologically, we just can't be part of it anymore. I know. It's a huge question. And there's no, there's no answer, but I just, I've, I've never read anything that has that story in it. Most of the time, it's, I left my faith completely. But what you're still sort of in it? Right. It's just the interpretation that isn't

working for you. Yeah. And like what if you're in that community still? You can't all like move to New York City. Like we're still here. We're still going to all the family gatherings. And you know, we're excited to the church potluck. And we love all those people that are at that church that come up with us. What do we do? You know? Yeah. And I agree. That's a huge question. You were talking about the detention centers. And I mean, what are, if we're not actually deporting them, then they are concentration camps is what it is. Absolutely. And we have, I live in Indiana and we have lots of warehouses and there's a big one in Speedway.

And they're building the Speedway slammer right now. So like we're about to have multiple of those in Indiana. And I feel the same way like you're saying, but I can't just move. I just can't up and move to a blue state right now. And on the flip side, technically, technically, I should like hope that I could make things better in Indiana. I don't know if I can stop a concentration camp, but if there's something I could do, I would. But it is. It's so complex where you're like, I'm living with people who like really don't care, don't value human life is what it feels like. And it is, it's very complicated.

I mean, I will say that, um, living. in a place. Like I live in Durham, which is a smaller city right next to Raleigh, which is the capital. Yeah. And Raleigh, even though it's 20 minutes away and not even more, it's a very different vibe. It's a very different atmosphere. It's not quite as blue. It's not quite as. And it's not necessarily red versus blue, but it is a mindset thing. Describe it. Yeah. And since moving here, and again, I move 20 minutes, my spirit feels so much better. Oh, good. Because this place is more creative and whatever. Whatever we're going to say about Durham. And it's not that Raleigh's terrible, but like so many of us sort of stuck places that our spirits are feeling the heaviness of it all the time.

And in that way, I love social media and I love the global economy and or the global, like, shared experience. Because we are able to, you know, I really hope that somebody who's in that situation finds my book and goes, okay, I'm not only one experiencing this thing where we're trying to navigate these close family relationships that feels so heavy and so burdensome. And it's not we still love these people. Right. Right. And so I know exactly what that's like. And to be in that environment all the time, I mean, energy is real. And so we are feeling it collectively.

And that I personally believe that is why so many autoimmune diseases are on the rise. And so many people are having more anxiety that they need to treat with medication and depression. Oh, yeah. Not all of that is just the brain chemistry you're born with. A lot of that is we are circumstantial. We are in fight and flight more often than we think we are because the environment around us is so hard, so start-ful, and so oppressive. It does feel like, what can I possibly do?

Right. It's a concentration camp. Mm-hmm. Moving in next door. Yeah. What can I do? We basically do the Five Calls app was like the kind of the thing you could do when that came up. Yes. Yes. And like I think a lot of us are, you know, with the with the Epstein files and like,

lots of things are coming to light. And we're all just standing here sort of frozen going, okay, how do we fight this? How do we fight the people that give us our food and our water and make up our law? And we have to pay our taxes too. The balance of power is so heavily weighed that it feels like we can't do anything. And I think that there are so many people who feel that kinetic angst of I want to help. I want to do something. And we don't know what to do. Yeah.

There's no real easy answer here. Yeah. It's somewhat, I think writing books like what you did, I think that helps a lot of people. Because, I mean, I was relating to it as well. So I try to think of the fact that even art is what is helpful, even in these times. Because, yeah, otherwise, there are little things and I will always be vocal about what I can be, but that's not always going to change anything either, not immediately. but being able to feel connected to other people who feel the same way helps remind us that like in community we can do some things at least I guess is like a silver lining yeah I was try to find one well and I think a lot about like the idea of if you can imagine a beach that's

just cluttered with trash just absolutely full of trash and you look at it and go there's no way I clean this up. Yeah. Probably not. But you can pick up a few things. Yeah. You can teach other people what the need is. There are little things we can do. It's just much more local. Yes. And the problems that we're hearing about are global. And we can not always address those problems, but we can do things for our neighbors. We can do things in our communities. And we know from measuring energy that that actually has a huge impact energetically. And can you imagine if all of us were out there loving on our neighbors doing small things to show humanity, to teach each other that you belong here, we could be a lot more prepared

for fighting the big battles together. Right. And so maybe this sort of community. the tending in one of the first steps towards actual real global change. There is a, I'll just mention it, one of the books that helped me understand the different ways you can do things. There's a book called We Refuse by Kelly Carter Jackson. I think it's Jackson. But she's a historian and it's all, she tackles like five different ways that black people, especially black women, have found to resist a month.

I mean, their oppression is significantly greater than anything I've ever experienced. So it's, it's really cool. And it highlights all of it, how even like, in a certain context, joy is part of the resistance. It's not the only thing, but it is part of it. And you need that. And how being in community is what will still, like, make you feel that sometimes. Yeah. Well, at the end of the book, the thing, the tool that you're living. While it does, you know, of course, I wrote it as sort of magical and bit. I mean, really, it's love is what it is. Yeah.

And it's not some like new world order and it's not some big weapon. And it's not something. It is truly the power of one to one, contact and care. Yeah. And that we're going to see. as the as the series unfolds how extremely powerful that is because what's what's cool about this is when I wrote it um I hope that people don't I hope that people feel at the end we already have this

we have this already and maybe it's not quite as like obvious or you can see it as well as they can or you know powerful yeah we already have love we already have have the power of energy. We already have connection, human connection. We already have all of the tools that we need to truly heal each other and in that heal the whole world. Yeah. And really change things for the better. It just will take a global effort. And that requires us getting out of the hamster wheel that so many of us are stuck in. The survival mode that we're stuck in. Yeah. And it's not our fault. But it's, we have to have community to land.

Because otherwise we're, we're trying to pay all our bills on our own. We're trying to take care of our kids. And we're being nickeled and dived every single day. And we have community. We can't, we don't have a safety nut to jump out of the hamster wheel. So many of us are just stuck in it. Yeah. And feels like that was an intentional design.

because we're wonderful consumers. Yes, we are. Unfortunately, that's kind of what I've talked about. This is the end game of glorifying capitalism. This is the end game of worshipping money and worshipping absolute power. Like that's how we got here. But this actually kind of is a really good segue to my next question is I thought it was very was very cool.

Cool seems like such a small word to use for it, that it's a woman, a mother, let's the title, who is receiving this information and thinks she could have the power to save the world, essentially. And we're so used to it being men, especially. And she's not a Messiah, but if we're talking about Messiah adjacent stories, it tends to be men and this time it was women and so obviously we've talked a little bit here

about how matriarch you would be a lot nicer too so was that kind of all was that was that was that on purpose were you really wanting it to be that yeah well and I mean in the end it gets passed to emily who's 11 right right and so it's and and we see that there we get the picture that there might be other girls that this has come through, but it came through women and only women. Yes. And Matt has like one dream, but it's really just to say, hey, you need to support Evie right now. Right. It's not, he's not really given like a directive or information. It's just to help him be able to support her. in totality. But yes, I genuinely believe that this is the age of the feminine energy and that we think about like the Yan Yang energy. You know that's something. We have been really imbalanced

for a very long time in the masculine or like hot driving energy. And anytime there's an imbalance becomes dysfunction. And we have been in a, masculine energetic dysfunction for hundreds of years, probably thousands, which is why we have seen this thirst for power, wording, hierarchy. And the feminine energy also has its own dysfunction. If that's too heavy, so we need to find the balance. And I personally believe that many, many spiritual and energetic workers like myself are being called to channel this divine feminine energy or this divine Christ consciousness, whatever you want to call it, and that we are being tasked to balance the energy because also we're seeing that it is affecting Mother Earth very negatively,

and she is letting us know. And so for me, there is no, there is nobody who can fix this except for women. it must come through us now can the divine feminine energy also come through men yes it can yeah yes it can however we are it's natural channels yeah um because of the energy that we have naturally yeah so i i i just think there was it was a no-brainer of course of course it was going to be her Of course it had to be her daughters who then carry this on. And Matt will always be an extremely important part of the story because men are extremely important in this next phase. Yes.

We just have to get the roles right. And we have to put our egos aside and learn how to work, use our energies, whatever our natural energies are for the benefit of each other, not self-seeking. Right. Totally. Yeah. It's the different, that's something that I still even struggle with is alternating between both of those energies, especially because of what I grew up around was just so much about, like, produce, make yourself better. like you can go make tons of money if you go to call like all of that and so you're like in this

doing doing doing doing doing and never in the like resting healing receiving like creating just none of it i got none of that growing up i mean i think creating is a or giving birth to art and ideas is an extremely feminine process but capitalism has married those two things together in our minds And so especially now with the rise of social media, it is possible to have a platform for your art in a way that maybe you couldn't before. But what I hate to see is someone at first is flowing with this beautiful feminine energy and they're creating and they're loving what they are creating and they're having a great time. And then the influence of the masculine and it really like vanity metrics. Yeah. It muddys up the creative process.

Yes. And when you are in flow, it is one of the most beautiful things that you can give to this earth, actually. Because what we're doing is being a nice, pure open channel for this clear source energy that everybody can use. Yes. And when we aren't in balance, then what we're doing is we're putting a bunch of fear in there, a bunch of worry, a bunch of scarcity. And so then it messes up the process and it can, it really, for a lot of people, destroys the thing that they love.

And so I just, I want to see people understanding that both of these energies are vitally important. It must be held in equilibrium, including as a culture. And we're just not quite there yet. We aren't. Not quite there. This is maybe kind of spoilery, but I don't think so. But at the end, there's something about, like, Matt feeling like hopefully I can continue this work. So my, me trying to predict things, is the next one going to be called father?

Well, or is it going to be more about that? So I, I think we had thought, I mean, I considered that. However, when I, when I was, doing outlines of the story. Really the girls that are more in charge of this, the heart of the story. Well, that may drive a lot of the action. It's girls that are still continually bringing a new way for people to see things. And so I had thought about that, but then I was like,

I really want to continue to have the feminine be the wisdom here. Yeah, I like that better. Yeah, and so I have no idea. Even though I thought I was cute and figured something else. I know, I know. It does seem like the natural progression for sure. Yeah, it was just because like the last few sentences were like that. I was like, I wonder if it's going to be more about him.

Yeah, the last word of the book is father. So it does seem like it would be. Yeah. But yeah, I'm still just continuing. to play with those roles. And yeah, what does, you know, when you're when you're giving birth, right? And when you are bringing something new into this world, what is the role of the father? Yeah. Well, what is the role of the, the masculine energy here? And I hate for it to sound to, what's the word? Like, it's only masculine or it's only feminine, right?

We are supposed to have both, right? And so it isn't necessarily so much duality in it. But when we are talking about how can we use the masculine energy to support this feminine knowing and healing of this earth. And so I'm going to continue making it a little girl heavy. good i'm here for that too well i obviously enjoyed it and i think if anyone if anyone enjoys kind of we kind of talked about it sci-fi or speculative fiction but that also really does encompass trying to think about your spirituality and understand it i think you will love this as entertainment and as like thought-provoking but at the end i do always ask if there if there's anything you've read recently that you

loved or if there are any books that you just always recommend to people um well i'm i'm on this i'm on this alien kick right now and um part of part of it is it's sort of a long story but um there's a guy in feyaville which is not too far from here and like 20 years ago he started seeing orbs and um in his backyard and this crazy experience and um he saw this figure and he called her the lady or the mother and she he's like is she an alien is she not and she's given him a lot of um really cool instruction and things that he needs to share so i'm going to run and go get the book hold on yeah go for it i can't find it but it's called UFO of god and it's like what fled so okay And so I'm reading that right now.

When I go to the gym, I usually just walk on the treadmill. And so I always have a book. So I'm reading that right now. And also, and this is just for all creatives, I really love this book, Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. That is crazy because when you were saying connecting to source and getting the energy, I almost brought that book up where she talks about how like ideas are like, is it like dandelion? Yes. I think is her.

Yeah. But like if it visit, the idea visits you and you don't like it, it moves on to the next. Or you don't act on it. It moves to the next person. Yes. Okay. That's crazy. I almost mentioned it.

That's awesome. I love that so much because it's almost like I should probably read it every six months. Seriously. Because it takes away the pressure that I feel. If I have an idea and I just really can't do it. Oh, that's a good point. I'm like, okay, you need to assign. that to someone else. I don't wait to see where it comes through. Yes. Just take it to somebody else.

It's probably not mine right now. Yeah. I have a big stack of things to do. But it also helps me to feel like we're all doing this together. Yeah, I agree. It doesn't always feel like a group assignment, but it is a group assignment. And so I've got my little assignments and sometimes things come across my purview. And sometimes I can say yes and sometimes I can't. Right. But it helps me to know that we're all on this together. Yeah.

And we're all creating art and channeling hope as a group. Yes. The things that we need are coming through us. And it's not up to us to come up with exactly what that is. Mm-hmm. Just to be a clear channel. Yep. I always say that, um,

we are like a curig machine so source is the water yeah and we are the k cups and we all have a different flavor but it's the same stuff it's the same ideas it's the same thing it's just we have a different flavor a different way to express it and there's always going to be somebody who likes our flavor and needs our flavor understand and have their own access to source through us. And you could call source, you could call it that creativity or fountain of all things. And so we are just, we flavor it for people so that they can have, they can enjoy it better, they can understand it better, it can connect to them in a different way. Yeah. Then just straight up hot water. You know, I like to think of myself as a nice

dark roast coffee. Yes. Yes. As a great example. And I'm always, looking for like, I don't know if that's a metaphor or any anecdote. I think it's a metaphor, but I'm always looking for those to, because it's easier to talk about that in conversation than to talk to some people who are like, what do you mean source energy? Yes. Yes. Yeah. And this is sort of a little bit of a left field, but if, if you haven't listened to the telepathy tapes podcast, you must, everybody must listen to the telepathy. Okay. And why? is because it is it's possible that we're making all of this up, right? Like all of spirituality and all the things that we're talking about now,

that it's just sort of a mechanism of our survival brain to give us something to and feel connecting to and have meaning so that we don't kill ourselves when it gets hard, right? Right. So that's possible. And I always hold that as a possibility. We can't know. Right. However, it does seem that so many more people are writing about sort of this magical thing, like big magic, this shared consciousness, that we are connected to each other and to things beyond in ways that we are really just starting to get to understand.

And the telepathy tapes is a wonderful, basically, study of that through nonverbal autistic kids and adults who have special gifts. And they are able to communicate through spelling the things that they are experiencing and that's mirroring a lot of the things that science is showing us about what we called spirituality but might just be physics. Wow. That is cool. So it's fascinating. I just followed the podcast and I'll link it for everyone.

And it absolutely has informed a lot of my own views on spirituality and which are absolutely represented in how I see the world and in the book. Totally. Well, I'm excited. You just added to my list now. You're going to love it. It's going to blow your mind. I will await your email. Yes. Yes. Is there anywhere people can follow you to stay up to date? Yeah. So you can find me on Facebook. Just look up my author name. You can find me on Instagram. That's my maiden name, though, Andrea Mangum. And you can find me on TikTok. And I think that's also Andrea Butler. And my TikTok is a little bit of everything.

It does have a lot to do with my autoimmune or not my autoimmune, my EDS. It's just my life, all the things about my life. I mean, you can't just post about your book all the time. It's a lot about my, anytime I have a new sort of spiritual idea. Okay. Come to me. usually in a session. You know, I'll learn something from someone else. Then I'll, I'll share it on there. So it's a, it's a mess of things. I'm here for that. Life is a mess of things.

Well, thank you so much. I loved reading it. I loved talking about it with you. And hopefully a lot of people go read it and DM me or you to talk about it. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. It's on Amazon. And you also, I have a website again. Oh, yeah. Just my author name. pretty easy to find and there'll be links to all that stuff too but yeah perfect awesome well thank you so much this is a great conversation thank you kay this is lovely