Bookwild - The Multi-Hyphenate Marie Laveau: Kayla Hardy's The Quarter Queen

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

This week, I talk with Kayla Hardy about her dark fantasy The Quarter Queen! How The Quarter Queen began as a television pilot. Kayla Hardy’s screenwriting background shaped the novel’s cinematic pacing, visual set pieces, ensemble cast, and meticulous plotting.  Why Marie Laveau is both historical inspiration and a personal connection.  Hardy draws on her Louisiana Creole roots, academic background in African American literature and folklore, and fascination with Marie to humanize a woman often reduced to legend.  Crafting the mother-daughter relationship is the emotional heart of the novel.  Marie and Ree represent different sides of the same coin, allowing Hardy to explore generational pain, privilege, protection, and what happens when the past refuses to stay buried.  How fantasy becomes a way to confront real American history.  The book explores conflicting approaches to oppression and liberation while using Southern Gothic and supernatural elements to make the consequences of historical violence impossible to ignore.  How Hardy reclaims Black and Creole folklore from pop-culture mythology,  Through Voodoo and zonbi, Hardy grounds the supernatural elements in traditions that have often been appropriated or stripped of their origins. All the Bookwild Links:Check Out the Bookwild SubstackSubscribe to Bookwild on YouTubeGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramCheck Out Author Social Media Packages Follow Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mbaErin Ashley @bellametaphor 

This week I got to talk with Kayla Hardy, who is the author of The Quarter Queen, which I devoured. I only recently learned about the interview with Vampire TV show on AMC, and I burned through it, and then there was an interview with Vampire shaped hole in my heart, and the Quarter Queen is what helped me move on. It's fantastic, especially if you really enjoyed that TV series. Here's what it's about. In 1843, New Orleans, rebellious Rie Levo must save her legendary mother, voodoo queen Marie Levo, after she is struck down by a deadly curse cast by her former lover and enemy, John the Conjurer. As researches for a cure, she uncovers her mother's dangerous secrets and must contend with witch hunters, alchemists, and the Catholic Church, while confronting a legacy that may become

her own. This book is so good. I was so hooked. The audios fantastic. You guys know how much I love Angel Pene and she narrates Rees perspectives. We also get Marie's perspective as well. I just loved it so much. And then I really loved my conversation with Kayla. And I think you guys are going to as well. So that being said, let's hear from Kayla. I am super excited to talk about the quarter queen, but I do always want to get to know a little about you as an author and as a person first. So I know you've done some screenwriting. I know you definitely know a lot about folklore as well. But what was your journey to writing like? As I have said, I'm a baby of libraries and bookstores and I just kind of caught the bugs so

early that was like, I'm going to be a writer. And my friend was like, you're not going to make any money. And I was like, who needs money? I just need love and passion to drive me. But, you know what I mean, but yeah, I went the whole like standard like minor in English, major in English film, and then like an MA in English lit, became a folklore researcher. Like how like 19th century, like ineffective. I read The Life and Times of Frederick Douglass when I was first in grad school. And I thought my professor who had a door who was just read, let's tell Juju works. He was at the Columbus Book Festival and I was there.

We both were authors. And he was like, Kayla. I was like, so he, he's fantastic and it's like a 19th century researcher and he was like, I really want you to write on this book. And of course, it was the biggest book in the staff. No one wanted to work with it. And I was blown away by Frederick Douglass and I. I just remember thinking like, wow, the ancestors have so much power.

And so, you know, he really existed. He kind of reminds me a bit of John and everyone else. And I was like, this is great. So I got a heavy research background, which at the time felt really stuffy. but now looking back, I'm like, it worked out because once you know these things, you can kind of, you know, manipulate them and remix history. And so I kind of became a pseudo historian, but more a folklorist and then went to Binghamton and got a Ph.D. An African-American lit, which is, it's kind of just in English.

And they have like a discipline of like creative writing. My folk was like African-American late and folklore, like Zora No Hurston and like Southern Gothic and Voodoo. And when I was doing that, I was doing a textbook on the Loa, on the Voodoo gods. And I was like, yeah, I kind of need to do a television pilot because I wanted to move to L.A. and be a screenwriter. Yes. They were like, what about your ambitions to be a novelist? And I'm like, novels take a really long time to write.

And I was like, I wanted to do something that's a bit faster. So I did all of that. And then Porter Queen was a television pilot. It took off. And then I was like, well, you know, producers are like, this would be expensive. And so I was like, let me just claim the IP is queen, did the book. And then we sold it pretty quickly. I'm back to being a novelist, so full circle.

So cool. That's so cool. Yeah. So it came from a screenplay, and screenplays, obviously, and novels, as you pointed out, are very different. They are. They are. Their approach, their interpretation, all of it.

So what was it like converting it from a screenplay into a book? So one of the things that kind of, when I was first on the screenwriting scene in L.A. was that I have a very prosy voice and we get notes, people like, oh, this is very there's some internal, some prosy and like, here's the thing about screenwriting. You can break whatever rule you want to break so long as it makes sense for the screenplay.

Like, have you read the screenplay for a quiet place? It almost breaks every rule. Oh, yeah, it has like a, like, there are like sentences, like one sentence on a page. Ingenious, right? Because it signals all that quiet. And it blew, like, if you blow an exec's mind, sold, right?

And so I've noticed a thing, even with fiction writers, if we get sticklers for rules, rules don't matter as long as there is an incoherent style, right? So I started kind of breaking a style a little bit and it kind of became kind of my signature. And I would have reel it back, right? Like, not so prosy. Yeah. Because I do believe screenplays are their own inherent experience.

I want somebody to pick up a screenplay and read it. I'm a writer. Not a director yet, hopefully next year. But like, I love reading screenplays. I love reading, you know, movies, anything. I like to start on the page first. Yes. You know, when you work with the director, they need to read it and see it.

And then they can start, you know, communicating with you, how they want to do the film or the TV show. So all that to say, quarter queen was definitely like abbreviated. You know, you can't go internal with these characters as much as you can with the book. And so very plot driven, right? And visual and set pieces. But those things served me well with the book because my editor was like, okay, I feel like, first of all, my sweet summer out. She told me several times she was like, this is not the screenplay. I was like, oh, okay. I was like, she's like, this is quarter queen, the book. And she's like,

released yourself from needing to make things like maybe so kind of like a little episodic or like, you know how things like, like she's like, like, tell her those scenes together. And, but one of the things that I think people really love is that it feels really cinematic because I was like very much like set pieces, um, visual. And again, I'm a visual learner. And every time when I'm writing a book, I do a shot list. Like, Quarter Queen had a whole shot list of like, that's so cool. Yeah, like it's very visually driven, like City of the Dead and like Laloon, the Steamboat. And that one really, I mean. A steamboat was wild. Wildest. It was like, it was like, backrooms kind of stuff. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Fantasy horror. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely,

I know we're jumping ahead. I feel like it's the part where there's this motif in Quarter Queen. I mean, how could you not? Like with the Marty Gras mask and everyone's kind of, my thing is everyone's wearing one. And it's the point where Marie is like the gods are like rip it off. Like you will not be able to go back the way you were once you came onto this boat. And, you know, it gets into the politics in 19th century and the colonialism of bodies and commodification of bodies. Once you know all this wealth and everything is built upon, how can you go back to the way that you were? So Lilloon is its own, it's a great midseason finale for a TV show. We keep saying. Yeah, right? So yeah, there's quite a big turning point there.

There is. It's basically it's the midpoint in the book, too. It's like perfect midpoint. It's the longest part in the book too. So my editor was like, we're not chopping a thing really. Like she just tightened a few things. But all that to say, it was just definitely visual. And then with the book, you got to really go into like the characters. And I, I just felt like, wow, to the points where I can't even use a television pilot anymore because the book changed too much. And so now if we do sell a TV show, like it'll be rewritten by myself and like a showrunner. So. I hope that that kind of answers it but like yeah I mean just got to go internal with Marie and re but like I really wanted to feel cinematic yeah it does it does thank you it um and the narrators I listened to it the narrators really like they're fire yes they really bring its life to I'm such I will listen to anything Angel P. narrates yeah yeah first heard her in oh it's up there somewhere Junie yes yes and I was like oh girl I will read, I will read, listen to everything that you do. Like, is the queen?

She may, she may single-handedly be one of the reasons I got into more genres. Wow. Because I didn't do as much like historical fiction. And now I'm like discovering the version of historical fiction that like works for me. So yeah, the audio book is so good. It would be, oh, it would be so good as a TV series, especially since you have so many different, like it is an ensemble cast. and it is a little bit more than just those two main characters that you dive into. I feel like that would be perfect for TV.

Oh, thank you. It is a weird thing, right? Where I feel like Quarter Queen is kind of a weird hybrid book of like kind of package is like another daughter story. But I knew that that was the emotional anchor, which was like great TV. It's like we have this. No matter what's happening. It's like, you know, enter the vampire is like Louie and the stat.

And then everything else is blossoming around them. But like with Marie and Marie, it's like they're the same person. They don't really understand that, but yet, you know what I mean? And everything else around that, though, it's set inside this genre kind of French quarter, gothic, like, ensemble of, like, almost gay with their own factional, like, the church, the brotherhood. Yes. They was like, well, the brotherhood is his own thing. Which I hope people don't take the, it's tricky with Silas.

He were like, I love him. I was like, well, yeah. Yeah, just wait. Yeah. I'm I copy it like I do love silas but it's a tricky thing because I can't spoil anything I can't say this but like we don't love with the brotherhood stands for at all no no no no no no no you've mentioned an interview with the vampire first of all I don't know how it was not on my radar until list stock came out they may not have been like marketing it so as much I guess because like this

should have come across my desk sooner basically um but this year was the year that it did. And so then over the course of a couple weeks, I, like, binged all three seasons. Oh, so you, I thought you, okay, so you just found out about it. And then, so you broke your own heart within three weeks. Oh, over and over again. Speed run. Over and over again. I should have an emotional damage. Yes. And so, like, I was obsessed. It was like, all I could talk about and think about for a while. And so then I started telling people, I was like, I have a vampire interview with a vampire shaped hole in my heart. Yes.

Then I remember the quarter queen was on my TBR. So I had, I also have been telling people that you like replaced the interview with a vampire hole in my life. You know what compliment that is. I'm like, I'm a massive and rice fan. Yes. Yeah. It was great. And getting to go see like the female, a female version of it or female.

You know what I mean? And I also like the stories that kind of stomp on your chest a little bit and we'd be really outchy at the end. You're like, what was this? You know what was this? But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This one does too. This one really does. It sounds on you a little bit. Yeah, it does. So it is loosely, I guess loosely inspired is still like the right term by Marie Laveau. Yes. And her daughter, Marie Laveau, the second, sounds like she actually had other kids. She did.

I'm assuming for the sake of this, it was like, let's, let's narrow the scope. So was it like studying Marie that made you want to write this? Did you want to write this? Did you want to write this? and you thought of Marie? Like, how did that happen? Everything starts with Marie with the queen. And so just as a kid, you know, Louisiana Creel, as everyone kind of was like, people keep like picking up that in an interview. Like I said it enough time.

They're like, well, did this and so. I'm like, absolutely, because I am a northerner. I'm from Ohio, but my family, both my mother's side and my father's side are Louisiana Creel, but, you know, the great migration up here. So it's been my summers in Lafayette and Monroe. And my dad would take me into New Orleans as like kind of like a treat and whatnot. We have cousins there. And I'm telling you, it was like a whole new world. I was like people are Catholic but practice root work and voodoo and just the community.

And I just got the bug. And when you're there, everyone's like, Marilla Vos this, me little bit of that. But kind of like in like this kind of spectral larger than life kind of way. And I always wanted to like unpack that. And so just, you know, I went as Merylabel for Halloween. I was just a super fan. And I just kind of knew like I really. felt like if I ever get to tell her story, it would be like honoring my family roots, but also like her as a mother because I think, and I've talked about this and other things, I've also wondered like what would it be like to live in the 19th century? And I think we all imagine we would be a good person or a good guy.

And I think real life is just far more complicated than that. And Marie is a very complicated figure, kind of villainous in some respects to whoever you might ask. Like she was a plague nurse. She helped the poor. Very maternal. Wielded all this power. I mean, like an immense amount of power the 19th century, unheard of right up next to La Lory, right?

Who would have been like the richest woman in New Orleans? But I would say really low was a spiritually rich, right? Owned a house and all these things had a partnership with white man, which was known in New Orleans you could do. You just could not marry, really. All these immense amount of privileges. And I thought, how would it feel to hold me? law of that and yet see you're in community

with enslaved black folks and these are your people and I'm like how would that feel and then I thought if I'm a mom I would do anything to protect my kid from this because people I think think like these stratifications were very rigid no based

you know what I mean freedom papers can be ripped up this can be this can happen you can leave as read you can leave no longer that they will descend upon you because the thing too is like the rest of the south does not adhere to the code noir right to and that's you know a real thing with new Orleans like all these privileges but the minute you leave go to Alabama

see what you get right and I think that was the hard lesson for re to kind of learn you don't learn until you were young you don't learn until you get thrown in there right but yeah so yeah I thought Marie seemed like this kind of larger than my figure that I really was eager to tackle but humanize her deeply beyond the spectacle and to kind of unpack privileges of colorism futurism and all these isms right yeah it you really do like the whole the whole book really does dive into so many complexities which i thought it's always so compelling to me like no one is

really completely good no in real life but also in this story like all of them have different flaws and i think trying to survive um is it's like everyone's going to like do different things in the name of trying to survive too. And we kind of can't help that like some of that is our like innate survival instinct. I don't think that means, you know, you need to be racist or own people. But we all we all have like at least somewhere a selfish like survival instinct that will kind of take over sometimes. Yes.

I thought it was really cool. you mentioned how you would go there for vacation and that like people would be practicing Catholicism like and root work. And obviously we have in Quarter Queen, there's Catholicism, there's alchemy, we have voodoo. There's so many things going on. And I think it's it's so ridiculous that, and I know why, why we call Christianity Christianity, in America. And then everything else is folklore or mysticism. or whatever. And I thought this was a really, really good example of, like, Catholicism has so many similar rituals, but people in the US are used to it. So we don't like lump it in with that.

So what was it like writing about how all three of, or a lot of spiritual things actually blended together and could be used together even? That's a phenomenal question. I'm a nerd. Again, And I think, on hand, folklore, the other hand, like, deeply Catholic family and roots and also Lutheran. It's a one of those things that when you study, like, religion and you started to go back to, like, the Udal, Abrahamic, like, roots of, like, what that actually looked like and how it kind of blossomed out. And I took a class in college called The History of Western Colt, which was considered, like, a difficult class. I love that shit. Yeah. Don't write in, yes, and, like, studied Arabic.

and some Aramaic and like you start to learn like even the Bible itself is a great historical source and I started to get the bug for like demonology and all this and a bit of that is in again quarter queens I think it's like when you're anately Catholic too it's like you love like the folklore aspect of it like so my point is is that when you look at like alchemy right like where that actually started and how it got over here and like we look at the church And again, I think Horder Queen makes the argument that you can love something, but that doesn't mean it is exempt from critique. And so God, I feel like, is in many ways separate from this institution. And Marie sees that.

I don't think a lot of other people see that. And again, the New Testament of like Christ and who did he come to say? Well, the poor and the broken, the downtrodden. And I think a lot of people think, oh, it's the priest, it's this. maybe he's maybe he's using Marie maybe in fact he can use someone like John or Silas or whoever and so I was really I'll talk about this and she's like yeah I really like I have to come through in this draft of Porter Queen I was like yeah I'm thinking like deeply like achingly spiritual and so yeah when you look at like the inquisitions that really happened right um

brutal there was no reason for any of that in like my opinion and we kind of just like Catholic We're kind of like, we just, you know, sleep under the rug. And to think that one might descend upon you is frightening. Yes. And then you have the Brotherhood of the White Hand who are kind of like a stand in for like the real life Freemasons that existed in 19th century, New Orleans. So there were the church, the Freemasons, and then there was the voodos. And I thought, a total editor was like, we have a chance because this is an adult history and a genre story to like take them, the Freemasons to have them stand in for like white fraternal power. institutions, right? But also, like, I've gotten way into my research and we can go on this rabbit

hole other time, but like the Freemasons and alchemy and how like the degrees and higher and higher you get and all the packs they make and they say, oh, they're like, we're not doing anything bad. Okay, all right. Well, something suspicious is going on. And I thought, you know, the Brotherhood kind feels like the Freemasons kind of needs the clan, meets a couple of things, right? Yeah, the claim kept coming to mind. The clan, the clan. Yes, yes. I mean, it's no accident.

They're called the Grand Wizard, right? But then, you know, what makes them kind of insidious to me is that they don't really say anything super, you know what I mean, ever. Overt, ever. They're always playing. They got the politics game down to the team. And they realize you can catch more flies, right, with honey, that kind of idea. But then again, the Luna just dispels all that, literally. And you see them for what they really.

truly are. And they kind of represent to me like the spirit of empire, right? And that kind of silas is insignia, right? The Euroboros, the kind of snake that devours his own tail is a symbol in alchemy, right? Where it's like the vicious cycle of life. How do we break out of this? And I thought, it's a great motif for America until we address some of these things. We are still, to this day, locked in the auroros.

So long-winning answer. But I just love, I thought this is a great opportunity to also use alchemy in a fresh, terrifying way, like a very more spiritual take on alchemy. It's not, to me, it's not about turning, you know, like a stone, like into gold. It's really about this kind of spiritual inner alchemy, which alchemy really is about. And how they basically, as an institution, maybe distort it something that was pure. And again, alchemy is about purity. And I'm like, they, of course, would take their ideals and transplant them, like, perfectly onto this magic system and then gatekeep it yeah yes yes yes yes very uh

christian nationalist yes yes i think so exactly exactly that's what i've like again it's hard to say enjoy but that's what i've started to enjoy even more about historical fiction is like one just like a lot of genres you can find your own subgenre that really works for you so it is like i do kind of like a thrilling or suspenseful or like active plot and then i'm definitely getting more into like horror and fantasy and historical fiction as well but like you do learn about today by reading about like way way way way yesterday basically um and kind of what you were saying about like what it would what how you could prove that you were free which like even anytime i read these stories you're just it's just like so a person could own you and then if they decided like you know what i'll let

you be free they like sign a paper and that's what decides it like just to begin with that's that's crazy but it is we see the echoes of that even right now because there are people and i i even have friends. I'm in Indiana and there is like an ice headquarters here now. I was born in Indiana. Oh wow. Bloomington. Okay. I went to you. Okay. But also I don't mean to derail this. I think it's related. I remember going to like the was it the fair or whatever? The clan was there. Yeah. We really supported the clan here. Yeah. And people, remember Adam Driver said that? People gave him. And people were like like the historians came out like, no, they are there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's for anyone who's There's a book called Fever and the Heartland, and I can't remember who it's by.

But it's literally about how Indiana should almost be considered the South. Like it became a safe haven for millions of-giving Brotherhood. Millions of clan members in especially the 20s. And the book I'm referencing follows the woman who is actually able to take down the organization. I know. Isn't that tight? I don't. I mean, what she had to go through is horrific. but if you can stomach it, it's worth reading that book.

Just read it slowly, maybe. I think my mom has that downstairs. Yeah. I think I did read that a couple years ago. I remember I think there was going to be a film, but, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, it always... It went way over there, but it's like, yeah.

It's like, right. Well, and we just were recording this on August 7th. We just had a mass deportation rally in Indiana. Greg Bovino was the leader of it. I was happy to see that they barely sold 100 tickets. I thought there was going to be more. But when I saw that, I was like, oh, my God, this is exactly like that book. Like, Indiana, there is a reason, like, we're also building a, at the Speedway, the Speedway Slammers.

So we're also building a concentration camp similar to Alligator Alcatraz here. Oh, my God. We did not get the lesson from Quarterprint at all. We didn't get the memo. Not at all. Not at all. So, yeah, the clan has felt safe here for very long time. Very long time. And I guess I'm glad it didn't come together. But reading history, even all kinds of different sub-genres of it, you, like for me, it started to help me feel like I at least had a grasp of how we got here because I keep having this like, well, and in my white experience, I wasn't learning.

I mean, no one was. Like a lot of stuff is not taught in history. And so for me, it was like, wait, how is this happening? And then I started reading more. And I'm like, oh, this isn't even new. Like, the one reason it feels new to me is also because, like, I haven't had to care about politics. So I do love that part. Were there any times when you're writing it where you're like, why is this so timely?

I'm writing historical fiction. It was dark. It was dark, man. Like, writing that and I remember with the Snatcher chapter with Reh, I was like, is this so immediate? Like, no, no. Because, again, I'm also a big believer of, like, historical fiction should say something about today. Because it should be, there's something there that we didn't grasp quite fully. And the president, I feel like so much of snatchers and slavery and, like, again, we can get into slave codes and statutes and how they're, like, in effect somehow in archives.

And the weirdness. of our antebellum past now people celebrate the antebellum period of like you know with their bell skirts and like do you know what paid for that do you know what you know what you know what you know I've gone on plantation tours yeah were they kind of the ladies like I remember I went to the one I'm calling them out maybe was I think it's Belmead the one in um Nashville the horse wine yeah um it's a winery and lovely but I remember I went on a tour and I just kind of felt like they were celebrating was it like beautiful gowns and wards and and like we didn't see the slave quarters but it was like very much like again surface level spectacle

and I'm like what about the lives of enslaved folks we're celebrating this beautiful plantation there's beautiful plantations in New Orleans but what made this possible the brutality the miscidation of generations of folks and pain that those things then displaced us and that cycle then repeats for generations and that's how we get here. And then it's that kind of perfect American thing of like throwing stones and high in your hands. It's like, well, we didn't, you know what I mean? It's like, how do we get here? Well, all these things happen repeatedly. Yes. To disenfranchise, you know, aspect of people. And so America has an issue with that and then not owning up to it. So I felt very much like, wow,

this is heartbreaking to see. I'm kind of upset. I'm not even kind of deeply upset when I was like kind of finishing the book. I was like, um, because I thought, well, is this too dark? And I'm like, no, it's just right. It's just the, just the right amount of like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Um, yeah, it just, it, it blows my mind. And then like also the more I learn it doesn't. It's like that weird thing where I'm like, how can people be like this? And then I'm like, well, here's the why, I guess. But even when you look back then, I'm like, how we're, I just, I can't. I know. head around it. Wait, did you, did you, this is the whole side note. Did you ever read Ring Shout by P. Jelly Clark? I need to read that one. You need to, so you love, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'll say is that he did wear a quarter queen and like I loved like, like, again, I think I, with quarter queen, the intention was kind of to do a similar thing where like we take a time period, we put a genre spin on it. Because I think sometimes it's like witcher, right? We're like, the elves are standing for like native people, indigenous people. Totally. Insert, whatever else. It's sometimes easier for folks. in just the general populace to understand that when it's a fantasy thing versus that. And so like wicked for good. Yes.

The like people going underground to free themselves just wait completely over. Over everyone's head. They're like, this is so, they're like, this is so new. It's like, well, okay. But in ringshout, like the Ku Klux Klan are actually demons. And I'm like, and they're like a tree. And they are. They are.

Come on. Come on. So I, mind blown. I have to. It's been on my TBR since like it's quick read too forever and I know I just I know it's kind of like a novella technically so I just need to you will you will love it all the questions you're posing like this is answered a ring shout yes yes okay yep I'm going to bump that one up now um the mother daughter element though like you said is also a really big part of it I thought it was interesting how many different relationships you were even able to explore.

I know. It's not like 600 pages. Like you really explored a lot. What was it like kind of writing how fraught that was? We are in both of their perspectives. And so we get to kind of learn how each of them became who they are today. But what was it like writing a very difficult mother-daughter relationship? I think it was kind of like was it like catharsis for me because I had that relationship with my mom.

So it was like great. They were like people do write what they know. But I think in a different aspect, like my mom was an addict for many years and didn't get clean until I was 18. And at that point I was like, I don't need my mom. I'm an adult. And of course, I think the answers you probably do always need your parents if they're healthy and available. And you learn to have grace. And when I started to impact my mom's story, I started to understand like, oh, this is, I can see why this would have happened.

Like, not to go on a long tangent, but my brother, who I never met, was hit by a drunk driver when she crossed him over to school. And it drug him down the street. And like, he was all she could see was hear him screaming. Oh, my God. Yes. And then he developed a brain tumor after that. And he was only like, I think six. He kind of survived.

Wow. He did for several years. And then he finally died. It was a slow death. And that destroyed her. And I kept thinking when I finally found out, I was like, that would destroy anyone. And I'm, like, surprised that she even had me well after this. I'm the youngest, me and my twin sister.

And I would have been done having kids probably after that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that would have gutted me. Yes. Yes. And so I've, when I started understanding her bravery and her, my mom is, like, very much, like, just, wants to get to the other side of things. Very Marie, very, I mean, there couldn't be another, I'm like, she is the quarter queen and I'm very much kind of rea, I think, in that way. And I thought,

this is a great dynamic to kind of explore. But I also felt like in Voodoo, there's Marie Level 1 and 2. Like, they're famous. Even if she had other children, it's like those two. And they get them confused. And I thought, this is a great way to explore, like, different sides of the same coin. And, you know, you start with Marie. That's how I kind of built the story. And I knew who she was instantly and I thought well we can't have two of the same people could be boring and so I was like yeah re is kind of like a stand in for like the creole bourgeoisie um a party girl because how could she not be rebuilt you know rebuild all these comforts and trappings around her yeah I think out of a sense of shame but also like I don't want to unpack the past because the past is icky and harmful and

yeah and in quarter queen it has real ramifications like the past is a conjuring and you open that door like literally the smoke teeth like the veil there's no closing it um And, you know, with John, we kind of set him up as a villain and it's like, he's not. I mean, no spoilers. It's like hardly the worst person. I agree. You know what I mean? And the pain with John is not his ideology because they have the same ideology.

The pain is that what are you willing to sacrifice? And many people in the 19th century had their children ripped away from it repeatedly. And I think when, you know, no spoilers to have a legma says. You beg for nothing, Reelbeau, because he's reminding her, even you still having your child is an immense gift. Yes. And so who are you to be any different than anyone else, right? So, yeah, I kind of just wanted to kind of, I had my own inspiration, but I kind of wanted to explore that. And I thought mother daughters were very, like, untapped for me.

And I thought they will be the emotional anchor, but they can still have their own love stories and their own arcs. And then you saw this kind of Game of Thrones factional kind of politics. And I thought this seems very fresh for a fantasy because everyone's like, the mother is dead. I'm like, mom is 45 and it's very much hot and is still running around. You know what I mean? It's glamorous, running stuff. So I loved writing Marie.

Like in particular, for like, who is my favorite? Like, I love writing everyone pretty much, like John Reed. Yes. Something about Marie does it for me. I love writing her fieldies. Yeah. Yeah. And you're right, though.

It's like Disney movies get the joke about it too. There's always a dead parent, like especially like Bambi, era like Disney. There's always a dead parent and you're right. Fantasy. It's always like the one orphan who can save the entire. Never met my parents. You look just like your mother.

Yeah. Yeah. And this one really keeps her there. Yeah. And with the pain, because the book even talks about how pain can be power. Yes. Which is very, you know, we even talk about alchemizing your pain into like action and stuff nowadays.

Mm-hmm. And kind of the people who then have the most pain sometimes have the most power, whether it's because they want like revenge or I would also call it justice sometimes. But like we've kind of talked about a little bit, everyone can have different approaches to it. Yes. And also when when like the rules of engagement essentially are so kind of fickle and ephemeral and like. and like not solid, then it's like you have some people who are like, we should work under these oppressive rules that we have because we're just trying to stay alive and we're trying to keep our kids alive. And then you have other people that are like, we have to revolt.

We have to fight back because we deserve freedom. And both sides are right in their motivations. Yes. So did you go into it knowing you wanted to really explore just how different even the journey to liberation is? Absolutely. I think it's one of those things are like just by virtue of Dillon Marie LeVoe and her being so complex and also being a free woman of color, Creole but also black. And there are people who have this distinction. We're like, well, Creole is not.

Yes, it is. And then we know after like the integration of free people of color into the system of, you. And again, I think the politics of that is like, first of all, we did not make the system. These classifications were foisted upon us and then used to describe. So it's like very strange that black people see themselves as black. These other distinctions were manmade. And I think what's weird is that I often have felt, how does Marie see herself? I don't care about what people call her.

I'm like, how does she see herself? And I think that's what resonates a lot of black women readership is that we all have this in our family history. And every single one of those women, if you have like a free person of color, they saw themselves in black. Because that's how it is today. If someone's mixed, they're black, like, and so forth. Because again, the racial mixing of America has happened for, like, how many years? So we're like. Centuries.

Centuries, right? So like African American, it's a very loaded term that can mean things different people. But I kind of knew going into just the politics of Marie, but also. also the politics of like, what does it mean to be creole? And how black people, some understand that, some don't. I thought there's a lot of privilege there. And I thought this is a great metaphor for privilege and power and how they go hand in hand. But also, I think it goes back to the idea of like if we were all back,

Matrix back into the past. Would we be a freedom fighter? Would we not? I think it's far more complicated than that because I do think it's about you hit the nail on the head of your lived experience. And you can only go in so far. are as you've met your life. And I think for someone like, Rie, what else is she supposed to do

if she's not been given the any, like, you know what I mean? Now, granted, she could be a bit more mature. But she's like, I'm going to make it rain. You know what I mean? And so, whatever. And so I do think for someone like Marie, they're not necessarily in a position to revolt. And John, right, who has like lost everything.

There's nothing else left to lose. Yeah. So those are two different starts. points. And I thought it lends itself well to getting into the history of Vodin and voodoo and how that kind of came from like to the executive Africa. And like we have a character literally is like the original OG and it's like I do this all day. And you know what I mean? And I am the only one left. I am the one. Yeah. And I think him being attached to like the baron is the idea of like death. And he's like death embodied. And I think the key for John is like,

well, there's always more to lose. Yes. Always. So long as we're alive and making connections. And I do think one of the main things is darkest quarter queen is about love. And I do think it is the one good thing in this dark world. And how ironically, I think everyone's doing something out of motivation for love. Like even stylist, no spoilers.

Yeah, your epigraph was even that quote about like twisting the knife essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. feels like love love I think love is the most powerful force there is I just think in the wrong hands it can become very twisted yeah um but yeah I mean so yeah I just kind of knew I just wanted people to have different ideologies about what that look like and then you know when you put them all

on the French quarter and they're all like going at it yeah like it all would clash right for the soul of New Orleans like physically like spiritually for the soul the literal soul of New Orleans and right I do think there's something about like the deeply Catholicism like of like pain and being a saint and long suffering. And I think it's one of those things where like, you know, I've talked about this so much, but it just affected me really like Game of Thrones and like John Snow. And like the person who seeks power should probably not have it.

I know. But the person who doesn't seek power probably is fit to rule. And you know what I mean? And I want to think that Silas, Marie, and John, I'm not trying to catch those hands any day. Yeah. Because I think they all have like suffered immensely. And that's what makes them.

extremely strong. Like, yes. There is the point, right, well, I kind of was, like, you know the scene in the steamboat, right? There's Mr. Silas and it's like, I think the single is, like, I think for him to have been like open. Like, I'm like, what are you commanding? Like, what is this? But yeah, yeah. So, yeah. You mentioned the, the romantic love. So there, there, Re has that and Marie has that. Marie has a couple different kind of like variations with it. Yes. But both of them are also with people who also have like differing beliefs on what to do. But you're right. Like if we don't have love at all, like whether it's familial or romantic or friendship, like then everything else feels even even darker. It's heavy and

leak um so what was it like even exploring like the romantic relationships with like big differences like that um great question because i get i love these questions uh so with john and marie again we knew quarter queen is not this a historical not just fantasy it's also a little bit of a little bit kind of that beast or like the romantic see yeah i think it should all feed together right and i think i love a good political story where like you can't trust anyone and i'm like yeah of course you sandwiches all these hot people together they're going to be like Chris Crossings. Oh, I had like just listened to Daggermouth before this too, which Angel Bean also there. There's some, there's some good things going here.

Of course, right? I can't wait to dive into that one. I'm literally about to go grab it. It's good. It's actually been used as a comp for my next book. So it's like, yes, I'm going to. I know. But I just, yeah, I like political, dystopian romance of like, sign me up.

Where do I sign up? I sign up. Pass me. reading it. I was like, cast me. You know what I volunteer's tribute. But no, with John, right, he's like the shadow daddy archetype. Yeah.

Like, kind of like, I was like, let me just do a shadow daddy real quick. But he's, to me, he's very complicated. And he's got like the hot teacher kind of vibe thing, right? And he has like the golden eyes. And I was like, you know, the running joke is like, I would have folded too, Marie. Yeah. I want to fold it too. And yet, you sense that.

he's maybe an artist or he has a little humanity to him but i think for him in particular he has his mission and then marie kind of by virtue of being her fucks it up right like and they have this level i want no spoilers of like they say no lies between them and there's yet everyone is lying to each other and so it's like this teacher student um and he takes her in like this really abrasive like yes uh which could there be any other way he's like whatever you're like whatever you been doing as child's play and like the the matrix montage where it's like you're going to have to get beaten up to be good at this yes yes yes he like he literally throws her to the well that not you know what mean it's like but john wasn't playing them games like he was not playing with anybody so um

he was a favorite of mine to really the conjure to kind of unpack and um based on the real life john by you but also john the conqueror which is a folk war figure and i got to kind of mash them as like a killmonger type of like revolution and pain and suffering and um he himself is a conduit for the god of death and i thought well you don't get those death powers if you haven't suffered a lot of death and so i think you know what i mean people think oh i want to i want to you know i want to have this power like do you because i'm pretty sure in quarter queen the way it works is that in order for him to be the chosen one of the baron like he had to have lost everything yeah and that's why he's able to not play no games on the loon.

So like, you know what I mean? And so for him, I knew that they had a darker kind of deceit going between them, but still earnest and love. And there's that kind of gut-punching line that he says, like, in their kind of climax, you're like, oh, why are you telling me that now? You know what I mean? Like in that one, I remember I finished that chapter, the climax between Marie and John and my editor and I both were like boo-hooing on the phone.

We're like, this is so sad. It is so sad. I know. I know. And yet there's light and hope in the tunnel, right? There is. Yeah. The restarting of the chemistry.

You're what I mean? So yeah. Yeah. So with Henrik and Reed, they're kind of like something more innocent, right? The childhood love that never kind of got to be fulfilled. And I think in many ways, right, Marie has his heart of stone, right? Moutique. And they all kind of do.

And I think Re has one as well. She just uses these games to keep people away. And you know what I mean? She's like, I don't have anything. It's a little bit. Yeah, she's like, I'm not going to have anything too deep because I've already been scarred. And then we kind of see him right and kind of understand like, oh yeah, he's a haughty and everything else. But like, again, I can't wait for like book two.

It's like really unpack him and figure out his more of his motivation. But like he himself is a stand in for the church and also, you know what I mean? And I feel like they have something very innocent, but also they tie lines to each other too. So it's like everyone's kind of playing the game with their own. Yeah, because it's like it's like, it's like. they do all that like on that personal level they're all very connected to each other but they can't help the circumstances no the circumstances exactly exactly yeah oh there there is like a line to somewhere that i i listen to it but like i need to get an actual copy because i have so many

bookmarks um in my listener copy but when when when i think when john's teaching marie he says something along the lines of like, ah, yes, family, the most common curse or like the life's most common curse, something like that. And I was like, oh, yes. This man knows. He knows. He knows. Yeah. I had a, I had a therapist in my 20s who used to say she was like, don't pray for patients unless you are willing to have to go through situations that test your patience. That's good. Ask for it if you don't want to have to go through something like that.

And it really reminds me of the like, yeah, John is powerful, but like what did he have to go through to get to that point, basically? A lot. Yeah. I love that quote. I think that feels very quarter clean. It's like, don't pray. Be careful what you pray for because you just might get it.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. There's a lot of that feeling in this book, I feel like. also I always wonder with historical fiction when it's kind of like loosely inspired by someone was there anything that like you felt like boxed in because you were kind of writing about someone who was real or how did you kind of decide how to be like okay this is my version of Marie LaVoe so two things right um she did own slaves and that's a point of contention

with a lot of historians and whatnot. And it's often debated. And I would think within people of color and black communities, it's like often the thought was that, again, and Quirley makes this argument. We didn't build the system. We live within it. Was that she had these slaves because they could have a better life

as opposed with other people. We've seen stuff like that, like the Patriot and other things, working within the system, right? Everyone thinks, oh, I don't just do this and get killed. You know what I mean? Get strung up? like poor Marcel right like so it's like the idea is like that's the that's my belief right is that

she held slaves that give them a better life also it's well it's thought that she let them go right so kind of like this like in secret underground railroad right that was actually in the television pilot of quarter queen the book it just couldn't make that kind of work but not because we didn't try um also voodoo like tackling a real spirituality um spiritual practice and putting it in here as okay So this is a fantasy. I've basically got to make the real rules of voodoo, like elucidate them, but also make it work for me. And so, like, there are cool things like with Papa Legba, right?

Like the epitaph he has is like the he who stands at the beginning and the end. That's the kind of my invention. It's a play on a real title that he has. And like, so just learning to kind of bend the rules just a little bit. But like, you know, a huge compliment to me has been like people who practice voodoo and work have been like, yes. Like this is, they're like, if only match. was a bit more immediate like in quarter queen we can get someone done i'm like i know i was like i know like

would it be cool like someone alone and like have fire in your hands like get out my face yeah but um no not quite how it works in real life but yeah yeah that's gonna be a good feeling because like when i was reading it even that was i think when i even reached out to you where i was like i feel like there are just some specifics about this that are not just like someone who made up a completely fantastical world so then when i saw you had studied like specifically than black folklore. I was like, okay, this makes, this makes a lot of sense now. Yeah, it was so fun. It was so fun. I just think I was a little terrified at first. I was like at a certain point I'm say, fuck it. And just kind of go with your gut and trust that all the research will kind of come out.

But I think with any fantasy, you heighten things. So like, Porter Queen, there are demons. They're demons. Yeah. They're everything in here. They're here. People don't even bat Naila. You know what I mean? They're here. Yes. Well, the other part of that, um, of like all, of the things that are incorporated into the book. I remember when sinners came out, there was a lot of discussion, of course, about like people being like, there's black horror, like kind of like how people were confused by Beyonce doing country. Yeah. I saw someone who did a really good video where he was breaking down like a lot of the like horror elements that we love nowadays even come from a lot of black folklore. And he specifically did a deep dive into zombies.

Zambi. Yes. And so he talked about how like the origin in some places, and I could be wrong, you're obviously the expert probably on this, was that like the enslaved people in Haiti were working so much that they looked like the living dead because they were like in such a trance and just like didn't even seem completely alive. And then we do get the zombies in quarter queen as well. And I just think it's so fascinating just kind of all of that.

Because like Zora Neal Hurston says she was seeing the zombies in the American South. Is that correct? Okay. That's what I thought. So basically can you kind of talk about including that stuff as well? Very important. And I think I really, so many, I want a quarter queen to kind of correct some of these things because I do, just to back up a bit, you know, a lot of fantasies we're seeing, like, I love a good European dragon story. But like, we have that folklore right here in America.

Right. And so even if quarter queen is, you know, a black or creole fantasy, it's an American fantasy by virtue of just that, Southern Gothic fantasy. And, you know, I wanted to basically honor though my creole roots and be like, you do really. realize Hollywood got this wrong. Like they've basically taken yet another thing from black culture. Right. And then reappropriates this horrifying thing. And then again, zombies are horrifying. But it's like, so I told my editor and she was like, why is this? I'm like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, zombies are a creole voodoo. She was like, what? I was like, so because of that, we will use the spelling zombie. Yeah. And it had been debated was that

plural. And I thought, no, my creole is decent enough. I was like, I think zombie is actually singular in plural. And so I just made a definitive choice to do that. And then I later, a friend of I was like, yeah, it is actually both. So it was like zombie. Okay. But yes, it is the idea that the slaves were overworked. They did like the living dead. But also within Vodon, there is the idea of the zombie.

And so it was like a twofold kind of thing. Okay. We're like people like, again, on the outside looking at the spectacle would think, oh, zombie. But then the Vodan priests and practitioners would be like that was the threat too of keeping people in line. It was like you could be turned into a zombie by taking a certain kind of drink, then buried. and this whole transformation would happen. And that was like the worst thing ever was like the idea that you would lose your mental faculties.

Yeah. And that's, it's horrifying, right? That you would be this thing's trend in like a spiritual twilight. Yeah. So it was a twofold kind of mythos. And I thought, well,

quarter queen again, heightened reality. So we're literally going to have the zombie. Yeah. And I think for me it was about the literary trope of like, and Tony Morrison talked about this, like black people and like the land in the background. I thought,

and John says it. where does pain go? It always comes back. And the idea that black folks worked the land and basically built this and then the fact that they would come back through it. I'm like, yeah, there's something there about that, like that it keeps haunting you, right? Like they keep haunting the narrative. Yeah. But yeah, I think there's also like this idea of like, I mean, you could argue that re, whoever is commodifying them once they come back as a zombie.

but I think the lower it's about reappropriating the pain that's been done to them and using it for liberation. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating how many things I learned about that are like considered very white things and you're like, no, not even that is. Not even, not even walking dead. Sorry, love them, but not even.

This is just another appropriation. Yeah. With the climax, you don't have to talk about. specifics but I didn't ask if you like plot stuff out did you know where you were headed with the ending yes um what's it called plodder panther I'm a platter big plotter like thorough outline uh-huh and then like also we talk like visual like I have like a shot like once that's all set in stone and my editor signs off I didn't like do like a shot list and then I have a soundtrack I have like it's so crazy I have like a soundtrack for every chapter

I love that. I'm preparing. Yes. So much of like spirit box was in this and like other things. They're like, yes, yes, yes. I'm like, come on, quarter queen soundtrack. But yeah. Yeah, I just, I plotted everything.

And then understanding it can change because the characters will want to do something crazy. I'm like, oh, yeah. This makes sense. Okay. Come through Silas. This makes sense, right? So I felt like I'm a heavy plotter. But then with the ending, that was the thing that actually made me rip my hair out

because there was, we knew it would take place pretty much there, carbon implementation, but there were several, like, who was going to be there. And that was just like, we really, so that was like four drafts of that. And then it finally kind of clicked. But, you know, some people have been like, oh, the ending ended fast. I'm like, how does it end fast? I was like, this is a whole artication. But, you know, sometimes I, I, well, it's 15 or 15% or more of the book.

You can't even satisfy. I would say, don't try because some people will just DM me and be like, I thought the pace was like fast and like commercial and some were like well it was slow and like well there were some longer chapters I'm definitely like an indulgent writer right and then a couple of like I think it ended too like the climax ended too fast for me and I'm like did you want it to move slow I was like I'm like but it just goes to show like I've also like for re because they're like she's nothing but a party girl I'm like did you want a copy of Marie like but again to be fair I don't know if I'm the kind of reader who needs my character to

be exactly like moa. No. Like I want them to be their own fully formed person. And Rie is by all definitions a brat. But kind of learns, we gave her an arc. Like I wanted to see her go from here to there. And to me it was very important if we're talking about privilege to have some of that. I was going to say she's unaware of her own privilege.

Very, very much so. And yet calls Marie out on her own privilege several times. Yeah, yeah. I know. I know. It's like there for her, but not totally there. which is a good example. It's really, it's really hard. I was about to say it's really hard to understand how bad something is if you haven't experienced it. I take that back because I say

like books help us do that all the time. So I do even really state that. That's a great point. Books are like, you're still not fully experiencing it in a book. No, but then you are. Sometimes you're like, why am I sobbing? Yeah. I remember like, what was it with Harry? But Harry Potter was like the one with Orr the Phoenix. Did you ever read? Yeah. Well, do you remember the one with serious? one serious. I did not get to read it because I grew up in a family that thought it was demonic. And so I didn't pick them back up later, but I've got it. Like, I know about it. Okay. Well, there was that one thing. He's like, I don't want to be human. I was like, ah, yes. I was hurting. But yes, I had some families that were like very similar.

Yeah. They still didn't get Harry Potter was about death and moderation. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was my other question? I had one from what you just said did it just leave my head completely i think it just left my head completely okay but it was like a good like wrap it up question no i wish we were we oh we were talking about re and privilege privilege we hmm i don't know okay was there anything like historically that you wished you could have included that didn't make it into it. You may have told us a couple, actually. I think I might have.

But so much was changing, so much for changing. I'm trying to think. I think there's a few more set pieces. We just, you know, because I think we, I definitely was like, we need to cap this at, like, a certain amount of words. I didn't want this. The worst thing in historical fiction can be is super long to me.

Like, even, like, you overstay, you're welcome. I definitely didn't want to overstay. I wanted to be like very kind of commercially pace. So like we lost some set pieces. And I think there was like more city of the dead. Oh, and they did leave the quarter at one point, but it's now in the quarter queen bonus chapters that exist that are, they're there.

So we'll see what happens with them. Yeah. Okay. I'll see if I can get it. I can probably send them to you. But we'll see what Valentine wants to do with them. They might put them out with the paperback release. That would make sense.

Yes. There's one for each of them. There's one for Marie and Ree. and one is like kind of a continuation of the luloon so i was like because people love that chapter and i'm like okay so yeah it's a cool chat it's dark it is dark it is very dark i mean everything growing on is dark i know i know the most part yeah yeah did you did you say there is a second one in the works hopefully i did an outline from one and turned it in i know i'm like i can't say too I know you can't.

People keep like, I feel so, like, they're like, when is, but I do. That's okay. I have a second book coming out. It is connected to quarter queen deeply. There's a vampire novel that modern New York City. Oh my God. I need this. Okay.

I think you'll love it. It's kind of like dagger mouth meets any of the vampire. It's kind of like a vampire revenge kind of tail. And so, yes, yes. But I can say it is surprisingly connected to the quarter queen, like deeply so. Oh, that is so cool. We have some returning cast, kind of. So, yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm excited. I will read it the second. It's on NetGalley or wherever. I will literally get you an early coffee. Thank you. You'll have to come back and talk about that one. Oh, I cannot wait.

It's definitely more of a paranormal romance. Like, you know, Quarter Queen was more of fantasy. This one's like a dark, like very much paranormal romance that does feature some, like, it has so much Quarter Queen DNA. Yeah. Hopefully Quarter Queen, there will be a second and third, like finished off as a trilogy. That would be awesome. I could see that.

And a TV adaptation. I'm just going to put it out there. Come on. Come on. No. Come on. So I definitely got to email my agents after this and be like, are we, what are we doing in the fall? Because Hollywood is like on break right now.

But like everyone's coming back right now. So I'm like, are we, what do we do it? Well, tell them that Kate from Indiana needs it. So I think that'll push it over the line for you. they're like who um well i loved it so much you've uh you guys have heard me say i listened to it if you love audio it is fantastic as audio as well um and yeah everyone else who went on the interview with a vampire journey with me this is what you need next in your life where can people follow you to stay up to date with all these ideas you have going on oh my goodness uh instagram mostly

right yeah so like that's where you found me uh just okay la go i kind of on ticot i have one i don't really i kind of go somewhere mostly lurk i lurk thank you i was like i kind of i'm a ghost in there and lurk but yeah i promise i'll get to using it um but yeah just on on instagram for right now i have a sub stack i haven't started okay after i've been busy i plan to um i'm hoping to do a horror movie to direct next year so i'm just kind of when i'm not writing novels i'm screenwriting and and doing that so i'm you know your girl's busy because i'm i'm i'm you know you're I love it. I love it. I'll go watch that too. Oh, we'll definitely talk about that one. It's a, like, a substance meets like, um, talk to me. It's like a dark alchemy, like the philosopher's stone. Like, if you can turn back the clock. And of course, you know, that goes awry. Okay. That sounds amazing. Okay. Well, I just want everything that comes from your mind now. You're the best. You're the best. Well, thank you for coming on. And I expect we'll be talking again.

Thank you.