Bookwild - The Real Deal by Caitlin Devlin: Reality TV, Girlhood and Deception

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

This week, I talk with Caitlin Devlin about her debut novel The Real Deal!SynopsisBelle Simon was just 12 years old when she was one of six girls plucked from obscurity to star in reality TV sensation The Real Deal. Under the wing of dazzling star Donna Mayfair, she and the other five girls were meant to become world-famous actresses, singers and dancers.But at 26, Belle is trying to live anonymously, away from being loved or loathed. The public eye has never fully shut, however, and when a producer offers Belle a big paycheck to join a reunion special for The Real Deal, she finds it hard to say no. If people are going to talk about that shocking final episode anyway, maybe this is an unexpected opportunity.Everyone watching thinks they know what happened, but only Belle knows what really occurred away from the cameras and outside the editing room. Is she ready to go back and confront her past? And will anyone believe her if she reveals the truth? Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

This week, I got to talk to the author of the book I kicked off 2024 with. And it is called The Real Deal by Caitlin Devlin. I absolutely loved it. It was such a perfect five-star read to get to start off 2024 with. But this is what it's about. Bell Simon was just 12 years old when she was one of six girls plucked from obscurity to star in reality TV sensation, The Real Deal. Under the wing of a dazzling star, Donna Mayfair,

she and the other five girls were meant to become world-famous actresses, singers and dancers. But at 26, Bell is still trying to live anonymously away from being loved or loathed. The public eye has never fully shut, however, and when a producer offers Belle a big paycheck to join a reunion special for the real deal, she finds it hard to say no. If people are going to talk about that shocking final episode anyway, maybe this is an unexpected opportunity. Everyone watching thinks they know what happened, but only Bell knows what really occurred away from the cameras and outside of the editing room. Is she ready to go back and confront her past?

And will anyone believe her if she reveals the truth? As you guys know, I'm typically a thriller reader, but this synopsis just sounded so similar to what I like in thrillers often. There's dual timeline. There's a lot of character development. And in my opinion, there's so much suspense throughout the whole book because you do know that you're leading up to trying to figure out what terrible thing happened in the final episode. So I could not read this book quickly enough. I was really invested

in Bell's character as well as like the characters around her too. And I just really, really, really enjoyed it. So with that said, let's get into it. Something I thought was really cool in your acknowledgments is that you mentioned how you used to tell your sibling stories when you guys were growing up. And so I normally asked people when they knew they were going to be an author. But did you know back then or like when was the moment that you were like, I'm going to turn this into like writing a book as well? You know, that's a really good question. It was kind of something that I always knew I was going to do, but I wasn't necessarily thinking I'm going to be an author when I'm older. I think I was always like I wanted to be a vet at one point and I wanted to like

act. And then in the background, I was always like, and I'll write books because I've always done that so I'll just write books and it was only later on in my teenagers I was like maybe this should be the thing that I really focus on and not just take it for grasses it's something I'll just do yeah I wrote that first book to my sister and kind of I loved it it's a terrible book by the way not not not the one that's coming out but yes yes yes I wrote when I was like 16 yeah but I loved the experience of writing it so much I was like I feel like This is what I'm wanting to do now for, to ever. Yeah.

Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. So on your TikToks, I have watched quite a few of them. I just started following you. So they're all showing up in my feet now. But you do like, kind of like get ready with me to write with me every morning. And so you also kind of like talk about how you did write this book while you also had a 9 to 5.

So what is your like morning process like with how you basically made? to write on top of everything else. Oh, God. I negotiate with myself for half an hour very early in the morning. So I start work. I'm quite lucky I start work at 10 a.m. So I have a lot of time mornings, which is a massive privilege and it helps a lot when you're writing around a book. Right. I don't tend to use my evening so much because I'm tired from work. Yeah. I get up around usually around 6.45 if I'm going out somewhere in London, if it's nearby, sometimes it's a bit later. get ready, do some filming in the morning. I write for at least an hour in the mornings usually.

Longer in my fan, but it depends how much I'm travelling in between to get to the places I want to go to. And I mostly work from home. So I'll come home, log on about 10 a.m., do my eight-hour workday. And then sometimes, like, I'm in a period at the moment where I'm writing very intensely because I'm trying to get this draft done. So I'm usually wearing things a little bit at the moment as well,

but mostly my evenings are so relaxing. Yeah, that is so cool. And so when you, you've kind of shown a couple of them, but you typically like go to like cafes in the morning if you do leave to go right? Is that what I saw? Yes, yeah. I live in like central London, which is great right now because I can kind of get to anywhere really in about half an hour. So I try and find a lot of new fun places to write.

It's something I find that helps my productivity because it makes it more of a treat. It's like a little bit off my fun. Yeah, yeah, I love that approach. I feel like it would make it a little bit easier to leave early before work. If you're like, oh, at least I get to go have yummy coffee. Yeah, for sure. So what is your writing process? Like, are you someone who plots it?

Are you a pancer? Do you have, like, really solid ideas going into it? Or does it kind of come to you as you write? I completely used to be a pancer. I used to love the thing of like, that's what a lot of people say. who worked like this, that you kind of discover the story. I was talking to another author recently who was saying that she really discovers what her plot's going to be as she goes.

And I did use to do that, but my biggest obstacle was always plot and feeling like I was enough plot into my books. Because the kind of books I read, I kind of really enjoy like a no plot, just vibes kind of book. Yes. That's kind of what I was doing in the beginning. But that's a lot harder as an unknown. make that work and to break out with that.

So I started getting more invested in really putting work into my story and making sure I had like a really clear structure to it and elements that were going to keep people reading. And if you want to do that, then you've got a plan. So now I spend a lot of time planning. I usually I spend about as much time planning as I do writing my first draft. Yeah. And go through a lot of drafts of my plot synopsis.

I start with like the pitch that I send to my agent, which is just a few lines. I build that out into like a book blurb. I build that out into the page summary and then I kind of just keep like building it from there until eventually it's I think my current planning document for this book is like that's 6,000 words. Oh wow.

Yeah, it's quite detailed but then it really helps because then the process of writing the first draft is really fast and so much faster since I started doing that than it like ever used to be because I know exactly what I'm doing every time I sit down to write so I kind of cut out the whole beginning part of finding my feet and all the thinking time, I'm just kind of like going.

Yeah, totally. That is a big planning document for it to be 6,000 words. But as someone who likes plans, I could see how that would help when it's kind of like, then you sit down and then you like know what you need to write is what I've heard from the people who do kind of plot and plan ahead of time for sure. Yeah. No, it's nice to feel like when you sit down, you're not, I don't want to say not thinking, but it's almost like you don't have to tell you as much.

you're not like trying to generate ideas. You've kind of done that hard part already. And now it's just like getting down what you already know you're going to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. That makes sense.

So I loved Belle in The Real Deal. I loved like being in her mind and experiencing her world. But there are also like multiple other characters that like really felt super developed and very real. So how do you, do you have any like way that you approach? getting to know your characters, or do you kind of like find out about them as you're writing them? Um, that's a good question. Characters I've kind of, it's always been one of the things that I found quite easy. Um, yeah, I just love, I love the process of grading characters. I love dialogue. That's

my favorite thing when I'm reading good dialogue and it's my favorite thing to write as well. And I feel like you find characters so much through dialogue that it all, it almost comes really naturally from the start of the book. I think you find in the information mostly. But I did, for the real deal, I did think very carefully about my cast and particularly those five girls

and what kind of personalities I wanted to show and the differences between them and kind of crucially like how each of them would deal with what they're going through in very different ways. That would shape like the adults they become who you also get to meet in the book. Yeah.

Bell was kind of a combination of a lot of different child stars that have spoken out about their experiences that I've been really interested in. So I'm sure a lot of people will recognize like a dance mum's influence in the book a little bit. There's a few of them on that show who I feel like inspired her a bit. I read Jeanette McCurdy's fantastic book. I'm glad my mother. That was like a massive influence as well.

It was such a good book. I love that book. And then I read in pieces. which is by Sally Field as well and a fantastic book and that was really helpful in terms of like sort of reflections on fame and trying to get into fame quite young and the difference

between starting as a child and then starting as like a young adult that kind of helps almost in contrast like develop Bell as well and then the other girls kind of fitted in around what I was doing with Bell I wanted to do different things with the rest of the car right yeah

so it's all also you kind of touched on it. It's kind of told or it is told in two timelines. So we have when they're 12 to 14 and then we also have them as adults at 26. In terms of this one, were you writing that like linearly the way it is in the book? Or did you kind of like think of their backstory and that helped you fill in what was happening in the present? So I plotted the backstory entirely first So actually when I originally pitched the book

To my age and it was just the journey of the girls And then I kind of added this I had it kind of like a seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo type Being interviewed by an author originally With Bell telling the story And then that felt a little bit like plagiarism So I cut that out You wouldn't be the first person to do it

it like that but I get it. Yeah. It felt like not what I used to be doing. Right. I kind of said to my agent that maybe we should do it just as her journey because I felt like there was enough plot there anyway. She did a lot and it moves quite fast. Yeah. And my agent

said sort of for the adult market we need an adult voice in there as well. Which is when I kind of return to her in the present and then I'm actually really glad I did because I think it's one of the most interesting things about child stars. This was so interested in the adults they turn out to be and how they, whether they kind of, I don't like

to take off the rails, but I guess that's kind of like, that's the expression. Yeah. Right. Or whether they managed to become like normal adults and then we really praise them for being grounded. People like Drew Barhamel, we, I love her. We really praise her for like being a normal, down to earth, nice person. Yes. We really like absolutely tear to shreds people who don't. don't kind of live up to that idea of getting past your difficult childhood and getting past. Being in the public eye for so long from such a young age, people like Lindsay Lohan, we really attack if you kind of dare to act out in any way because of that. But I think being famous when you're young, I mean, I've never been famous as a kid,

but my understanding of it and the angle that I approached this book from is that is a traumatic thing in itself. Like being that perceived that young. So it's really interesting to get to carry. that into adulthood and see how that trauma kind of like manifests yeah there it was wild right after i finished this book i saw something or saw a ticot and it was taylor momson talking about like what on some podcast they were like and how old were you when you started gossip girl and she was 13 and like the styling and everything like that was the point of that ticot is like you would be like what, that was a 13 year old girl. Like, are you kidding me? And I hadn't thought back. I mean,

I watched Gossip Girl forever ago. I hadn't like thought of it that way in a while. And I saw that and I was like that is just absolutely insane. I can't imagine being like, actually I have a 13 year old niece. I can't imagine her like on a set with a bunch of adults in that kind of scenario, especially a show like that. It's horrifying, isn't it? Like I think, I think like a 13 and I was such a young teenager. Yeah. And like I wanted to, I wanted to be famous. I wanted to like, right. And like, oh my God, that would have been if someone like comes up to me and handed that to me, I would have thought that was the best thing ever. But right that that never happened to me,

never could of because I don't even find how you would navigate this being in this incredibly adult way, each way you're so fragile. But you really are 13 year old girl. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it, you. You kind of touched on it if you read. I'm glad my mom died. But there is like the one of the core parts of the book is kind of that struggle where like because she has a career as a young teen, she kind of like feels like she has a different, well, there is just a different power balance between her and her mom because of that.

Was there anything else you kind of drew inspo for like creating that like? It's not like her mom's bad. It's just like a really difficult relationship. In terms of what Bell and said. Yeah, her mom. Yeah. I thought that was really, I thought that was interesting because I think there's kind of two scenarios

that you can have with like the parent and the child there. You could have like the Jeanette McCurdy, the Judy Garland, the like, the overbearing stage mom who they definitely are. They just want to. Yeah. They think that's the best thing for everyone involved and they kind of don't acknowledge the harm that they're doing.

that's doing their child. But then you also have those mothers who are just trying to do what their child wants, which is what I think we see on like, you see it on dance films a little bit. Like these are just like ordinary kids and being brought into the public eye.

You see it with like the parents of child stars. I always think of like the kids from Harry Potter who were not from acting families, right? This is what they wanted to do. Like I, Olivia Rodriguez talked about it a little bit that like no one in her family was into that. industry at all or like was creative

and her parents just wanted to support her. And I think that a lot of the time these parents will have really good intentions like I think Bell's mum does and we'll just want to do what makes their kids happy but it's such a slippery slope and this stuff can kind of like ramp up before you even really know it's happening. Yeah. And I think that's kind of where I approach like Bell and Sophie from

is this mum who is really loving and really supportive and she's kind of like a cool mom and she just wants to like her kid to do what she wants to do but she's you know she's still apprehensive about it the whole way through but she never quite manages to catch it before it goes too far because it just gets away from her because I think that's what happens so many people yeah especially when they're like which is the case in this book too there are other adults that are like also like oh no your kid is safe and like this is good for your kid and these are all the reasons they should be doing it so it's like as a parent don't want to believe that basically.

So, yeah. Especially when your kids, when you have like a 14, 50 or 15 year old by that point, they think they know what's best for them. Like they think they're pretty grown at that point. And we had your kid being like, no, you don't understand. Like if you take me away from this, I will be so unhappy and you'll be ruining my life. Like, what do you do at that point? Like, you should pull them out, but you're not always got it.

Right. Right. Yeah. It'd be hard to, well, and they have a lot of big feelings at that age. So they are going to be probably really angry if you take it from them for sure. I'm angry at their parents all the time anyway. You know, like as a parent, you wouldn't want to make that worse. Right.

Yeah, totally. So one of the things that I really enjoyed about it, I'm kind of more of a like suspense thriller reader. But I like felt like this one, it, the pacing felt really similar to thrillers. And especially the like bouncing back between timelines. and you kind of have it like looming over your head that like you know something bad happened to the end of the show, but you don't know what it is. And so even when you're in both timelines, the whole time you're like, okay, but like what went wrong?

Like what went really, really poorly here? So that was something I really enjoyed about the pacing. Is that like, was that something you were kind of intentionally wanting to do to kind of like hold the truth of it until the end to kind of create the suspense? or was it just kind of the way it played out when you wrote with both timelines? No, totally. I wanted it to kind of I wanted it to read a little bit like

a TV show or like the crime show where we're kind of like watching obsessively to get to, I must get to like the really messed up stuff. Yeah. And I kind of wanted it to be like this thing of we're watching something horrific go down and we're wanting it to like move towards this like big

explosive like ending. But then actually we're like making like the aftermath of that and we're seeing like how much that like great entertainment for us really affects the people involved. So I wanted it to kind of be like it was almost like bingeable, but then maybe not reach a super satisfying conclusion, but then it kind of be like, well, do we want it to have like the most exciting possible conclusion

because that means that an awful thing has happened to a 15 year old girl, you know? Right. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, it was, I could. not put it down. I was like, I just reposted someone's TikTok that was like when the book gets really good and it's like them with their Kindle like stirring their dinner and they're like still reading. I thought, like, brush me. Yes. And I was like, oh my gosh, this was so me. Like everywhere I was going. I was like reading it.

And my husband would be like, what is so exciting on your phone? I'm like this book. So I loved that element. I'm like, I'm a sucker for dual timelines. I'm also just like, I love when you. you're like trying to figure something out in a book even if it's not like crazy action thriller like it's just really fun when you're kind of trying to like chew on it as you read through it and figure out what's going to actually happen so I loved that um what was so what was your like it sounds like dance moms had a lot to do with it but what was your like initial inspiration for this book like what what kind of like hit you and you're like oh this is a story dance films definitely

definitely Jeanette McCurdy's book some of the like some of the like you say thrillers like I was reading quite a lot of fast pace books at the time there was quite a lot of stuff I think it was quite a moment where also the fantastic podcast by I think it's by Pandora Sykes

okay but she she did this fantastic deep dive into reality TV, basically. Oh, nice. I was ethical it is and looked at loads of different shows. And I thought that was fascinating. Because that was one of the first times that I'd seen reality TV talked about in this way that felt almost like intellectual. I felt like we were taking,

yeah, we were taking its impact on culture seriously. We were taking what about people and about human nature seriously. Mm-hmm. I thought that was so interesting because I'd not seen that done before. one of those things that we're so sensitive and snooty about reality think that it's like something that we should have serious conversations about

and I absolutely should. It's fascinating. It's a fascinating world and yeah, like a lot of it's really bright but also like there are real lives that are being kind of affected and ruined by these shows. So that was a massive influence and then I did a bit of a deep dive into reality in general and

something that I hadn't seen covered a lot in literature. And I thought it was really interesting. And I think maybe because it's a hard thing to write and it not to feel a bit like gnaf or cheesy because it's such a cheesy world. So it's a really interesting challenge. And I don't know if I succeeded on it,

but to try and like write something that felt like it had stuff of substance to say about something that we consider really have substance. Yeah. It looks like I just looked it up because now I want to listen to that podcast because I love, it's like another thing.

I have another podcast with my friend who also reads a bunch of thrillers. When I was telling him about this, I was like, well, clearly, no matter what genre I'm reading in, if it's reality TV, I'm going to be obsessed. So it sounds like it's doing it right with Pandora Sykes. Does that sound? That sounds like it might be right. It's not sure if I'm getting, because I know that she used to do a podcast with Dolly Oldston, and I'm not sure if I'm getting the two of the mix up. Oh, okay. So it's one of her podcasts, basically.

I'll find it and I'll send it over to you, but it is, um, okay. It was really good. And yeah, I was a bunch, because I kind of came up with the concept of this last year. It was a bunch I listened to around. Yeah. That time. But yeah, it was, um, it was more just kind of feeling like there was a bit of a gap in conversation. Um, yeah, totally.

But it's sort of like water cooler chat and it's not like something that we really unpack. And I think like critically, umphing, reality is. it's really interesting. I was also watching a lot of Love Island at the time. Oh yeah. I think that shows like so interesting. Like there's so many like the conversations that get started because of that show. I don't know if it's the same like where you are, but in the UK like.

Yes. Yeah. Another thing I thought was interesting like the, the, it kind of like really showed, the book really shows the behind the scenes of reality TV as well. So like I've listened. I watch, I've watched. Fanderpump Rules for a really long time, but Stacey Schroeder was on it for a really long time. She's not on it anymore, but she has her own podcast. And she would talk about, I remember hearing her first talk about, like, you would think you were showing up for the event. And they'd be like,

just like drive around the block. And so she was even breaking down how they like orchestrate when people show up to like make the maximum drama. And that's like something that happens close to the beginning of the book. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so crazy. But it I think it's so interesting to look at reality TV because because it's called reality. And so then we think that it means it's like completely real. This is like exactly what happened. And like not everyone like has the critical thinking or like the awareness to understand that the editing can change so much of it. Or like they could try.

They're kind of pushing you in a certain direction to get more drama. So I loved how that was like incorporated into it as too where it's like I feel like, the idea of reality was like good for reality TV but I feel like you also kind of used it to like touch on how like when you're a kid like how do you even know what's real in that situation too which was like a really common problem for Bell basically exactly like you're going to trust the adults around you and the authority figure yeah telling you that they know what's best and and also you're going to start feel complicit in like you want to make a good TV show because then people are going to watch it yes then it's like how much does you sacrifice to do this

that especially as a child. Yes, that was another thing. I actually just heard Stasi say that yesterday on the podcast I was listening to where the reunions on Bravo are sometimes one part, sometimes they're two parts, and sometimes there's three parts. And I used to think that that had to do with like, I used to think they knew going into recording how many parts they were going to have based on like what happened during the season. And she was saying how actually you get paid per, episodically. And so sometimes she would be like sitting there and she could tell that no one was like really trying to stir stuff up. And so she would actively like start fights with people so that they could maybe get three episodes and then it means it gets paid more. Yeah. And I was like,

that is insanity. It makes sense when you hear it. Yeah. It makes so much sense when you hear it. But like you would never just guess it. That's what's stressing about it is the world is I feel like the behind scenes that's not that talked about. Yeah. Like, the amount of things that, like, you'll watch where you don't even realize that they're cutting stuff in, you don't even realize that they're creating whole conversations. And then people's recognition.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, yeah. Like, when you're a kid in that world, like, how responsible are you for that? Right. Yeah. And just, like, then how do you trust people moving forward when, like, that's what you're

around that young? I can't even imagine. Yeah, no, completely. And yeah, I just, I think it's such an interesting world. I'm very interested in areas of culture that we kind of look down on and we're a bit snooty about and sort of bring up. And, right, and thinking, like, actually, these, these things are worth having, like, serious conversations about? Right. Totally.

Yeah. I love that. So I normally ask authors here at the end what they've been reading that they love. if you have time to read. I know sometimes they don't, but if you do, what have you loved recently? I've really prioritized this year or last year. Nice. So glad I did. Very into like weird girl fiction at the moment. I'm really loving like everything, Mona Awa is right. Very into Margaret Atwood right now. I've been reading all of her. She's like my favorite author right now. That's so cool. Yeah, no, I love her. And then what am I reading that I love? So I've just finished

I read The Lonely Hearts Hotel recently that I thought that was fantastic. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to look for good memoirs at the moment because I'm writing something at the moment that is a little bit about like 90s Hollywood. And so I'm trying to look for good by 90s actresses. So any recommendations for anyone else? Oh my gosh. We were just like writing all my favorite subjects. That's my other one.

It's like reality TV, Hollywood. or like taking down like mega churches are like all the things that I get all excited about. Oh my God. Yeah. I know my language. I've got this idea as well that I want to talk to my agent about that's to do with like mega churches in the US and like purity culture. Oh my gosh. I'll do it. That is so cool. I just started when I have an arc of a book called A Step Past Darkness and I just got to a point where I was like, oh, this is going to be about a church. And I was like, okay, now I'm going to want to just read online. but yeah that's i mean it sounds like you're just going to keep writing my hyper fixation interests

yeah um so where can people follow you to stay up to date with everything you're writing and publishing uh mostly my ticot um at cat um devlin my instagram has i think is the same but i don't ever posted on there i might so you might also case i'm start. And then I'm on Amazon, just Caitlin Devlin. You can follow my author page and you can follow your book and stay up to date because the next one is on the way. Well, thank you so much for chatting about it and I can't wait to read what you have next. Thank you for having me. This has been so fun. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Between the Lines and if you did, the biggest thing you can do to support the podcast is to go rate and review it on whatever platform you listen on. You can also

follow me on Instagram at The Girl with the Book on the couch. And if you still need more thrillers in your life, check out Killing the Tea, my other podcast where I talk to my friend Gare about literally everything we read.