Bookwild - ThrillerFest Recap with Sabrina Thatcher and Lori Brand

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

Last year, Sabrina Thatcher (aka Olivia Day Wallce) and Lori Brand shared their experiences at ThrillerFest, and this year, since I got to go for the first time, we all get back together to discuss Thrillerfest 2025! Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Last year about this time, I did not go to Thriller Fest. And I posted a story and I was like, does anybody want to talk about Thriller Fest who did go? And Sabrina, who then I think we, I think in that episode she's Olivia. So if anyone's confused, that's what it is. Sabrina said yes. And Lori Brand said yes. Sabrina Thatcher. I don't know why I didn't give you your full name.

And so it was really fun to get to hear about it. And then this year, as you guys, if you're listening to this podcast, I would assume you probably already know I went to Thriller Fest this year. And so I thought it would be cool for us to do another like full circle wrap around recap. So welcome Sabrina and Lori. Thank you for having us. So excited to be here. Yeah. I am too.

It was, it was so many things. That was the big thing I learned. That thrill request is so many things. Yeah. It's exhausting, isn't it? It is exhausting. I came back on Monday. I slept for 16 hours Monday.

I just was like this, no, I'm done. So worn out. Yeah, I just kept falling asleep. I feel like he was probably eight hours during the day. But like, I would get something done that. I'd be like, all right, I'll rest before the next thing. And then I was asleep again. Yeah.

Especially as an introverts, right? Like we're not around a ton of people. So you go into that space and it is so much energy and it's amazing. It's all good. But it is yes. Man. Yeah. So I went in on Monday, right?

I flew in on Monday because I did the master class on Tuesday and then I did like the craft fest and then I did like the thrill. Yeah, I just did different things, right? And then on Saturday there was the debut breakfast or the debut whatever it is, right? The author thing. And at the time that that was. over. I was like, I was so wiped out. Like I like almost couldn't I just almost couldn't like go to any more classes, you know, or anything. So I actually went to the MoMA. The MoMA is really close, right? The Museum of

Modern Art. Yeah. Walk away. I end up going to the MoMA and like sitting on a bench and like staring at like a Rothko for like a while just to like get like my head's face right. Yeah. I have a friend Elizabeth Rose Quinn who is there and she did the same thing. Yeah. She was like I need to go. I just took a walk to the MoMA. I was like, good for you for walking in this heat. Yeah. And they have an outdoor, like, they have like a little outdoor area in the back, you know? And so like, then like I went out back and I like just like sat then when I was done looking at all the art, I went like out like out. And I just like sat like outside in the sun.

Because I've been like at a hotel for like five days straight, you know. Oh my God. Straight out like. Yeah. So it was like really. I think it was like good for me like mental health wise, you know. Probably. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The location was, was this like, you're so close. Because Times Square was so close, too. Yeah. I actually like, I like this location, I think, better than the last one because the other

one was, like, right on. You could see Times Square from your hotel room, right? It's just like right there. But this is a little bit further away, so it wasn't quite as chaotic. I felt like out on the street. Which was a little. I thought it was a hundred times better. Plus, the whole elevator situation at the other place was like a disaster.

Kate, the elevator. at the other. What was the hotel were disastrous? Yeah. It was like impossible. Like they just were slow and took forever. Yeah. Super slow.

It was just always, it was always a mess. Like tried in and out of those things. Yeah, these ones were way better. And I like that it was all, majority of the events were on the same floor. Yeah. The floors two and three, but almost everything was on the second floor. And then as those like cocktail parties, the debut breakfast, whatever, we're on the upper ones. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So you guys both did master. Masterclass. She's in the masterclass, too? I did. I actually got there Sunday. I did FBI ATF day.

I didn't do that. Did you do that. Did pitch best. Then thrill her best. How? Tell me about the FBI thing because I was supposed to do that I signed up, but I got I signed up and I like, I like missed it. So tell us about that.

Oh. Okay. So it was, it was really good. I would say it was super beneficial. We got, they had people come in from ATF and FBI. And they told, stories. That's a lot of what they were doing was telling stories about their experiences and stuff. And then they'd answer some questions. I saw it on the original schedule. I used to do event

management like 100 years ago. And so when I saw the schedule and I was like, these things are 20 minutes each, that's not going to work. I'm not going to stick with these authors. And it didn't. So, but it was, it was amazing. Learned so much. It actually ended up solving an issue that I was having in my book. And then I was able to sit with the ATF prosecutor and just like talked to him for 20 minutes about some of things that I have questions on. That was amazing. Then, so the acting FBI director from January 20th through February 21st of this year, his name is Brian starts with something, he was there.

And he, oh my God, the most, the calmest, sweetest, kindest guy. Yeah. But such a badass. Like, such a badass. was on SWAT team for the FBI. They had to go in and do like hostage rescue. And so he told this story, the most impactful story to me was there was a man, it was like many years ago, a man kidnapped a kid off of a school bus,

killed those a school bus driver. Oh no. And then they like kicks the kid, goes into an underground bunker, right? So they have no way to get to this kid. The hostage rescue team is called in. So they go and they're like trying to figure out how to get into this bunker. And this is like a week or two. to his fully like I'm on the job now.

Right. Oh my God. So he's super early. And he's telling us about how the man had taken the little boy down into the bunker and then he was like shooting up and stuff. So he tells a story about how when he had like heroin. First one I went down. Like drug?

No, like shooting guns. Okay. Guns. Okay, okay. Yeah, he's shooting at the like with the little boy in there. He's shooting at the ATF agents or the FBI agents. Okay. So he tells the story about his, his partner.

the first one in the hole so it's like straight down so he jumps down and then it turned out the guy had like walked it somehow they hadn't seen so he got stuck halfway down and then the criminal is like shooting up at him so they pull their co-work they pull the guy out the first guy they figure out how to get the remove that thing then the first guy goes back in again oh no first and he lands on the little boy and covers him while the rest of the team comes in and like takes care of the situation how old is It was the most like six. Okay. Oh, my God.

Yeah. And it was like an intense story. But hearing him talk about it and what that meant like for him to be there being like it like it was such an important thing for him that experience. Yeah. It's just like I it just was a good reminder to me of sometimes we have a lot of people that do a lot of crazy things for the benefit of others. Yeah. It's there's truly heroes out there. Really.

Yes. I completely agree. Right. like when you're running away like the good guys are running towards the bad thing you know bro so it was really cool just seeing it was like several of those um kind of conversations that we heard about and um and then ATF they talked about like tracing guns and like how all the gun running works and all of these different things and uh ghost guns 3D printing and like how that's now an issue it just was like it was just fascinating so so interesting so i forgot

the people are 3D printing guns now. Yeah. Yeah. How about that? It's crazy. It's crazy. So that was the ATF FBI day. But I will say it was a lot.

Like we basically had a 30 minute break for lunch because we kind of went over. And everyone wanted to ask questions and talk more. So it was like eight hours with one 30 minute break. And how many students were there? How many like Thriller Fest participants were there? Not panel people, but like people like you. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to say there's 50 to 60 maybe?

Okay. Okay. I could be underestimating. I just was wondering because, like, you know, how he had at least one question, right? That's a lot of questions, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. But it was really, it was so cool. That was worthwhile experience. And then, yes, I did Masterclass. Who did you do that with? Class with Lori. Who did you do? Who did you do with?

I was with Alex Finley. Okay. Okay. I was with, um, Look at her. Isabella, I mean, mispronounced it, Maldonado. Oh, Isabelo Maldonato? Yeah, yeah.

I mispronounced her name, but I was with her, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And she was lovely. You know, I think there's a real skill to doing something like this. You know, she got everybody's drafts, and then we talked about him as a class, but she was really good about providing constructive feedback without, without like making you feel like he wanted to quit. You know, like, she was,

he identified lots of good things in, in our, like in all of our stories. Then she, like, identified, like, areas for improvement, which, you know, depending on how it was handled, it could have brought you down, but instead it was like a, it was more of a collaborative thing. And she did a really good job managing, like, the expectations of the class and keeping things moving. You know, she just did a fabulous job.

but I really enjoyed. Plus, I think that she's a thriller fest alum, I think. I think that she did Thriller Fest. I think that's where she got her age at like five, six years ago. So that's great. Yeah.

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. She, I think is really great. What are the things about Masterclass, this is my third time doing it. Oh,

you had, and I find that there's value. I didn't have Isabella. I had, I had, J.D. Barker the first year. I had Claire McIntosh, my second year and then this year, Alex Finley.

Okay. So what is great about these, what I enjoy is that it is a very, it's a vulnerable position to put yourself out there of like, I'm going to share my writing that like, I don't know, if everyone's going to like this or not. Yeah. It is. It's like sharing your heart. It's very, it's so difficult.

And the master call, everyone I've been in has done a really good job of making it feel like it's a safe environment where we're learning from each other. and we're beat like you like just like what you said you're being told like here's what's good it's working about this here's some things to think about or yeah you know maybe if you rearrange this whatever it it's such a great environment and it feels very safe for for trying to learn how to write and in front of somebody that you admire right yeah like hearing someone you admire telling you what's working and you know what's not it's just the safest environment for it i love it yeah but what i also like too is by um so isabella had sent all all

of our stories ahead of time to all of us. So, you know, I had marked them all up, right? I went through it and I marked them up. And so it was interesting to see then like when other people were talking about it in the class, you know, the teach either Isabella or the other students to see like, like other people picked up on the same, the same things, you know, that I picked up on or other people at the same type of questions that I have, you know, so it's, it gives you also a little bit more faith in your ability to edit, you know, like to edit your own work because there's alignment there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think, and also for the author, it's really great because one of the things Alex said multiple times, if you hear something more than once, that's something you should look at.

Yeah. Because you should always, you are the authority of your own book, right? Like, you know your book. You make the decisions. But if you hear some people saying the same thing multiple times, that's something you might want to look at because something's not working there. You know, Yeah. And that's the benefit of doing it this way where you're all looking and talking about this. Yeah. You kind of get to see instead of like, oh, I have one editor that's telling me one thing. Now another one is telling me this. Now another writer that's telling me this. Like you're in a consensus.

Do you ever do, uh, Sarah, Kate, you write also. Do you, do you do you guys ever use beta readers? I haven't finished a manuscript to send a beta reader yet. Okay. But Sabrina, but you, you've used beta readers before, though? Have you used them? I have. I have. I did with my first book. Oh. And I learned some lessons. Yeah.

I learned some lessons to be thoughtful about who you ask. Yeah. What you're trying to get out of them and be clear what you want out of them. Yeah. Because I got back things like, this is a four-star book. It's great. And then I sent out to editors and our agents. And the agents were like, I don't even understand the plot of this book.

How did you tell me that? How did you find your beta readers? Just people that I know. Like it was like friends and stuff. And then other people that I know. just like other bookstagramers, honestly, is you I was really asking. Okay. Because I feel like the people who are the reader readers, that's why I want to tell me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't trust. So my first book, the one that never got published, right? I didn't even know beta readers were a thing. And my second book, the one that I did get published, the one that's now bodies to die for. At that point, I'd heard of beta readers.

And I found it incredibly helpful. I got, you can either get him through good readers. reads or through Fiver or something, but like I picked people who specifically, you know, for the specialized in thrillers, right? And I found that, I found that really helpful. I like to do at least, I'd do three or four, right? Because that way, you can't have one or two because you got to have at least three. Because if, if one person says something, the other person says something different, you need that third person to split the difference, you know? But, but yeah, anytime that I get like two or more people telling me the same thing, I give it a really, really, really good swint.

If all three say the same thing, then I just change it, whether I wanted to or not, you know? Yeah. Right. Because it means that obviously, even if something wasn't working. Yeah. And I agree with you on the beta reading. So I actually, I'm watching my book coaching business, but in the short term, I have been doing beta reading, like, professionally for people. Yeah.

And I have like every quarter, I go through, here's what my theories are. Here's what I think is going to happen. here's what I, like who I think the suspect is, here's what I think the twist is, et cetera. Here's what I'm confused about of what I'm tracking. And I've heard from, and then I also do inline edit or inline comments of like, oh my God, what the heck? Like my immediate reaction. And that seems to work really well for authors so far.

It might have been my experience. And that's what I'm going to hopefully ask somebody able to do for me. Like I need like detail level. I want to know exactly what is like, what are you thinking? because I need to know if my game, my trick I'm playing on you, is it working? Yeah. Yeah. Because it may not be working.

Yeah. Totally. Yeah. That is the unique part with thrillers, too. Like, it's not every book where you're trying, where you're actively trying to, like, see if you can guess the ending. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

It is this one in mystery thrillers because you have that, like, that expectation that everything that you're reading is maybe not exactly what it seems. There's going to be something that happens. it's not linear. So, like, it's not this just... I was doing this studying today about the chicken sisters. I think it was like a book that was Reese Book Club pick a couple years ago or whatever.

And I was reading a case study about it for my practicum. And I was like, this is just basically these two girls, they come together, they have their two families or warring at their chicken thing. And then they get, like, at the end and I was like, that seems very straightforward. Whereas a lot of times mysteries, you're like, okay, I've got to have a crime. How do I solve a crime?

How do you solve a crime? I don't know. How do you get away with a crime? Yeah. I don't know. Turns like you read all these thrillers. And I was like, nothing sunk in. Or do you ever go from like reading thrillers every now and then to like reading a normal, a normal book or reading something that's not a thriller?

But like I'll be like looking at something like say like on like let it or something. So maybe it was saying a story. And you'd be like, and then and then it turned out that the pre. I'll be like thinking about. I know. I wasn't waiting for like the cruel thing. the mean thing. That's not the way that it works. But this would be a good time for that. Oh, it should be like pretending to be somebody else, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That is interesting. So, Kate, was your first time at Thriller Fest? So you've got to tell, you got to tell us, like, what was the most shocking thing? What was the most shocking thing? Or the most exciting thing or the most whatever thing. one of the most i mean truly to use shocking like seeing john grisham and james patterson in the same day yeah i was like yeah what like what like wild yeah and javid pro left i was doing the same day too like all three of them what yeah last year when i was there as state cosby um sad i was like i was waiting for something uh in like this place that had like these really comfortable chairs you know like a like a lobbyish type of area or something and he came and he just sat down

down next to me, he was waiting for something too. And then he just started chatting with me. And I was like, wait a second. You know, that was that, that was something, right? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I know. I've been meeting. I keep seeing, I'm glad you said that because I keep seeing clips from him like on TikTok of people seeing him on tour. And I'm like, how did I not see his thing? Like, I need to see shows near. I was there this year. Was he not there this year? No, no, no, no, he wasn't here this year. It wasn't in Taylor Fest, but he was at Barnes & Noble in New York doing an event. Oh, really?

I've known. That's what I think I saw. And I was like, oh, is he going to be near Indiana? And apparently he was in Nashville on June 11th. So that looks like that was where I would have had to go. But I'm glad you brought up because I've been, I keep thinking like, oh, I need to look up his tour. I need to see if he's going to be near me. It looks like he's not.

But that would be crazy just sitting down. Yeah. And they were like, like this year, too, at one point for that to be breakfast, you know, they were having us like sit up on this like stage type of area. This one that's this woman comes up to us and she goes, she was asking us to move around. She goes, hi, I'm at least not anger. And I was like, you don't. I, I knew that. You know.

We know. We know. Yeah, but you know. That's like all those videos we see of Taylor Swift. She's always like, hi, I'm Taylor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, Kate, so seeing John Grish and John Patterson, what else? Like, what were the, like, big highlights for you as a first timer? Yeah. So coincidentally, as people who have probably been seeing me post about, right before Thriller Fest, I started to be able to listen to audiobooks on fiction audiobooks, right? I know it. So, it just expanded my reading abilities and I'm so happy.

It just didn't used to work for me. I don't do it. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't used to work. for me and then step i think helped me find narrators and so like one of my ones uh yeah one of my friends like audio books are not created equal and i was like okay you're right true not all narrators are created equal yeah so that had just happened and then there were two panels with about

audiobooks um and the first one that had january levoy and i'm forgetting her husband's name who also narrates right now. Sorry, husband. Okay. But that was one of the ones that Seth had told me about. Like, she loves January, LaVoy. A lot of people in the audiobook world, too, as well. And that panel was really interesting to me.

I think kind of because I produce podcasts and just media in general, I was like, oh, okay, so like some of this is interesting because, like, I'm an editor or whatever. Like, I edit stuff like that. But I thought it was kind of cool, too. There was someone from Audible, like she's some kind of sea level at Audible, who was talking about, like, the way that they started doing Audible originals was that they were starting to see demand for things that were like three to five hours long, not the like nine to 14. Sure. And so they were like, I think we could fulfill this demand, but people didn't want to use their audible credits on something shorter. Okay.

And so she said that is why they then just started making these audible originals. But it's like included if you have a membership. Like if you're buying at least a credit a month, you can listen to any of those for free. So I thought it was fun like hearing about the evolution of that and that basically what they did is they just started looking at their bestsellers in print in each genre and then started reaching out to authors. And obviously we all know some of like like Desper Deadly Widows is one of those. Well, it was novel length. But no, but you have like Ivy Pocoda who won for Best Short Story was there Amazon Original. Lisa Unger was nominated for Amazon Original that was short. You've got like

those almost anthologies kind of what they're putting together is a theme and then the short stories. they go in each one. Yeah. Yeah. And so that I was just fascinated by hearing that. But also like I knew that I'm just going to look it up so that I don't keep not saying this man's name. But, you know, we can decenter men too. I'll be honest.

I don't know any male like. Will Damron was his name. Okay. So, January LeVoy and Will Damron, they both, they both. narrated Eliza Jane Brazier's it had to be you which is for anyone who doesn't know it's Eliza Jane Brazier's like Mr. and Mrs. Smith to give shorthand. Is her sick stumble? Yeah. No, it's at least so what after the horse? No, after the horses one. But her first one. It's after the horses. The first one was if first one was a podcast one that's like if it

has a really cool. Yeah, it was she that's where she got on my radar was that first one. Okay. That's a great look. Yeah. And then I loved it. I loved it. And then I loved good rich people. If I disappeared.

Yes. Good rich people were fantastic. So yeah, it had to be you as her fourth. Girls and their horses was the third. And that's been picked up for. Oh, it has? TV. Oh, good.

That's a good. Yes. And not Gwyneth Paltrow. Nicole Kidman is attached to it right now. Okay. She is everywhere. How does she have kind of live? I don't know. Maybe she just, she just wants to keep making stuff and good for her.

Good for her. So like I asked them, I was like, how did you, did you guys, since you guys are married and you were recording that, was that something like, did you record that book together? I hadn't listened to the audiobook. I just read it and I knew that they narrated it. And so then they were explaining the difference between a duet and a dual cast. And so the, the, the, the, the, the, terminology basically means if someone is reading all of one chapter from one perspective, even when the other person is talking, it's like dual narrators, a duet is if in dialogue we're actually getting. It's like full cast. Yeah, it's that multi-cast feeling. And so there's, they didn't do the duet one. They did dual, but they did, they both got to like narrate a sexy Mr. and Mrs. Smith

thriller together which I thought was pretty cool. That is fun. Yeah. And I just like learning about it a lot. And I did go up to them afterwards and I was like, I'd love to have you on the podcast and they said they'll come on. Nice. Little teaser that that will be happening at some point in the future.

So yeah, I really liked hearing about that. And then the second one I went to, there was like a part two the next day. Someone who edits them was there. And that was like, I was sitting there. And I was like, wait a second, I could edit audiobooks. So now I want to email this guy. I wrote his name now. It's Greg something.

There's lots of Gregs. Yeah. He's Greg something. And so I want to reach out to him just to like hear about it if he, if he doesn't mind talking to me about it. So. Dude, you should. Just like, hey, I can I do an informational interview?

Yeah. I just want to chit chat about like, how do I get into this, whatever? That's a good thing. And then, yeah. My friend, Megan, you met Megan. to sing right introduced this an audiobook narrator too you ever want to chat with her i'm also happy to okay yeah yeah it's like broaden my horizons of people i want to talk to and then it was it's making me more grateful for like having the podcast because i a couple months ago i heard

who if anyone knows hannah burner is hannah burner who was saying it but um she was like i started to realize that like if you have a podcast you can kind of ask anyone to talk with you yeah as you probably enjoy you too. And I was like, oh yeah, that is what it is where it's like you wouldn't, you couldn't reach out to someone. You could and be like. They're not going to want to talk to you as you. Could you just face time with me? I know you don't know me, but could we just face time and talk? But like, I've made friends because I've been able to be like, hey, do you want to come on my podcast? Right. So it made me grateful for that. Wow. That's awesome. Super secret way. So my, I have a new podcast launching on July 3rd called Slaying the Caps, specifically going to be going like interviewing

thriller authors about the craft. And I think I was telling J.T. Ellison, who's one of my guests, was like, this is just my super secret way to be able to pick everyone's brains and be like, can you help me solve my problem? Yes. Yeah. And then it might help. It might solve other people's probably. Yeah. It's a cool medium. Yeah. But then it was like there were people I hadn't even seen in real life before. So it was like, I saw Lori. I saw you. Actually, Lori and Sabrina, I'm pointing at them. I hadn't met them in real life yet. May Cobb, Prynjade.

Like, there are plenty more people, John Fram. Even like Audrey chapters and first. She's a bookster grammar and also a writer. But I hadn't sure. She's both. She's a bookstore and she has a really good YouTube channel. Yeah. It was so cool that like I've been doing the podcast for four years.

So it's like technically I've probably interviewed close to 100 authors. Some of them are repeat. But so it was just cool being like I was able to like meet people and connect with people. I'm using air quotes kind of through the internet. Like from little little teeny tiny suburb Indiana, it like it means so much to me that I was able to meet so many people for. from here basically. So that was really cool. I ran into, I ran into, um, Susan Walter, who's one of the people and the authors who'd

learned my book. And, um, I forget, we were both checking in or doing something. We were both, and we were kind of walking by each other. We both kind of did like a double look. And we were like, yeah, wait, because like, we've never actually met in person, but we've, um, you know, I, I've talked with her plenty. I've seen her through Instagram. Um, we've emailed. We've had all sorts of exchanges by, never actually seen her in person so that was really it was really kind of cool you know my gosh she was so cute like i saw her that i saw her that opening night and she was wearing like a kind of like a body con sun dress i guess is like the best way to describe it but she had converse on and i was

like that just looks so cool she's like you're so cool she's very hip so she's out she's out of l.A right did you do you know right i know that's what i told yeah yeah she oh that's what i told time where I was like, you look so L.A. Yeah, she's like a, she, um,

she used to be a movie producer. I don't know. Are you aware of that? Yeah. Yeah. Like she did. Yeah. I interviewed her.

Like shared stone in it, you know, um, and maybe I'm using the wrong. I think she was a producer. I get all the movie terms wrong. But like, um,

but yeah. I mean, like she was legit in the movie business. And then, um, then COVID happened and she tried her hand at writing. And then, and that that's,

yeah, how it moved. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, her books are great. Really, for anyone who's listening, really short chapters. They're like very snappy, very twisty. Yeah. Yeah. They're really fine. Susan Walter. Susan Walter. There's no S on the end of Walter. A Susan Walter. Yeah. And I may have been the Susan. I sat next to in the bar for a long time.

Yeah. It's like kind of short and blonde. She's blonde. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of beautiful pretty blonde. Yeah. They're all very shiny Yeah Yeah he was really cool I liked he needed to see her She taught a class

I'm gonna hold that I'm gonna tell you the name of the class I don't remember the class She taught yeah She taught some class Actually went to the class Maybe you know Maybe they don't say the names

It was some kind of I guess I don't see it here It was some kind of class on like film And like selling your Film rights Oh Or like movie rights Or Netflix rights or just all that

jazz, right? She taught a class with a couple other people. And it was really interesting. It was really super interesting. And also there's like the fantasy part, right? Like don't we all want to sell our book rights, you know? So it was kind of cool. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So Lori, this year, you went last year, your book hadn't come out or had just barely come out. But this year, you were in the debut offer program. Yeah. How was that different from your previous experiences? So they have a lot of things set up for you as a debut. It was really nice. Like they reached out to you out of time.

They had a, well, so we had like a debut dinner that was smaller, quieter that, like, wasn't in front of a bunch of people where we got to meet all the other debut authors. And, you know, it's really good to meet the other debut authors because these are people who are kind of the same place on your journey. And you can, you can maybe like commiserate with each other or learn some things from each other um it's it's good to have these people uh you know to have the social group and then you know there was a debut breakfast which was a much a much bigger affair but um but i got to tell you the best thing this might i don't even know if people are aware that this happens they put together um

Greg hurwitz and bob i think is a gulliani i'm not sure how to pronounce exactly the last thing like that bologna do yeah exactly okay so he they do this thing where they sit down with the debut authors for like, I don't know, like an hour and a half or two hours, right? It's just, it's just us and it's your chance to, they tell you like, like, what it's like to be, like, actually like a working author, things that they've learned from like all the, the years of experience in this field. And it's a time for like, where like you can ask questions. And maybe like you didn't have this question because you maybe are not there yet, but somebody

else is part of this debut group, they'll have a question. So there was probably like maybe like 30 of us or maybe 25, maybe 30 of us. And so she read all these people ask questions and, and both Greg and Bob were like really straight with us. Like just, you know, like if you read stuff on the internet, everybody's always kind of hedging themselves and like, you know, like people want to put like a more positive spin around something. And Greg was like, no, man, don't do that. You know? They were just really, they were just really, really straight. with us. And if you think about it, what, you know, they're, they're doing this under the goodness of

their hearts, right? Like, I mean, think about that. These are, these are two people who have, which is a wealth of experience. And the only reason that they're really doing this is because they're trying to, like, help, like, a newer generation of people just get their, their sea legs. And God bless them for doing that, man. I, that was my favorite part of the whole week, was that. I was, I was extremely, I can't imagine so. Yeah. Yeah. They even told me, like, if you've any questions you can reach out to us, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Like normal people and you're like, oh my God, like you're like a person. Yes. That's just somebody on my bookshelf. Yes. Right? Totally. Right? Yeah.

Yes. And I mean, I say this all the time, but this thriller community, I think ITW really fosters this a lot. But the thriller mystery thriller community is is truly the like, warmest, kindest. Everybody's like, there's room for all of us. Yeah. I genuinely have not met people.

and if they are feeling very competitive for other people, they keep it very quiet. I don't, I've never met anyone that's like, oh my God, well, I would die and get that book deal. You know what I mean? Like, it's always just like, this is awesome. Okay, this is what's happening with me. Like learning from each other. It's truly just great. It's like my favorite.

It's like Disneyland for. Yeah. It really is. Yeah, but could I just randomly? Yeah, go ahead. What were you going to say? I just randomly add that I don't know why. but Robert Dugoni during the breakfast was like reminding me of Patrick Dempsey and like

Gray's early Gray's anatomy. And I was like, what is happening right now? Yeah. I think some of it is his hair is the same. Yeah. Yeah. And he has like the same like very masculine, handsome vibe. And I was like, who is he reminding me of?

And then I was like, oh, it's Patrick Dempsey. So, you know, hopefully he doesn't hear this or maybe. be he should hear it i don't know should it i'm right or just Patrick josey i love you yeah yeah you know who all you do you know who also have a lot of blood sweat and tears into organizing this i was

just mentioning um bob and gregg because of that that uh author thing um but you know who else put a lot of time into it also is Carter wilson you know he um he helped to organize like the the whole thing and um you know he had me on his podcast he's a really nice guy too you know i mean people who are cool to talk to you yeah yeah i mean they all strike me as like people who will just give it to you straight you know because sometimes you just

need somebody to give it to you straight right you know um yeah yeah yeah well i thought it was really cool i posted in my stories too but kind of like another full circle moment we had was when we did this podcast last year lori literally introduced me to the book the recruiter because he was one of the ones that she yeah got that day yeah and i like immediately requested it on NetGalley and I got it and I loved it. It's very much like a, it's like, think like a business recruiter, but this is a recruiter who connects criminal people that they need to do certain illegal tasks. Yeah. And it's very much, he even said in the debut breakfast, but it's very much like Ryan Reynolds type humor with action. Give or take, however you feel about Ryan Reynolds.

right now. Just used for the movement reference. Like his acting is great. Yes. But then I had him on the podcast. And then Lori and Greg were both at the debut therapist this year. And I was like, this is such a cool, like, thread that's running through all of it. It's so awesome.

That is so awesome. Yeah. It has a, it says like that really cool cover. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's really good if you like action thrillers that have humor.

you were so nice with action. Yeah. Yeah. Especially because sometimes things get too dark. Yeah. Yeah. So, go ahead. I remember you telling me, Sabrina, how you love the debut breakfast and, like, the way that it's just like getting to see people who got to that point and got published.

And I'm like such a collective effervescence feeler that like when everyone was clapping, I was like, I'm going to start crying. Dude, I'm so glad that you said that. Okay, literally, I cry anytime a group of people clap. Let me just tell you. I've seen the first Harry Potter like 100,000 times. I cry at the very single time because they're all clapping. So like I just 100%. So anyway, the debut author breakfast, for me every year that I've been able to be there,

it's like, okay, that's what that's the goal. That's the goal. That's the goal. So it helps so much to like, okay, I'm seeing these people going through and doing it. I have several people that I've gone to Thriller Fest with for several. several years and we say, okay, we're going to be up there. Like, it's going to be our year. We're going to be up there together. It's going to be our class. Like, we're all kind of in that same boat. And I love that they do this, not only to be able to help the debut authors and the program that goes

with that because it follows all year, not just at Thrillerfest, but for everybody else who's there, the two days before, a bunch of us just pitched. We're like sent to agents and editors. And we're like, oh, we're excited. This could be a potential. Like, this could be happening. And then we get to see the people who just did it. And it is, it's such a powerful. motivator. And if that is something that's one of your goals to be like, I want to be up there, it's huge motivator. I think so just see a visualizer.

It really is like as a visualizer for sure. And I liked how some of the, so we only got to have one minute just just so you know, like that's why those speeches were kind of short. There was actually, I don't know if you saw there's a person up front pulling up the timer, okay? So we got one minute, but I have liked how some people use part of their minute to speak directly to the crowd. You know, some people said, you know, so if you're out there and if you're thinking, you know, I can't remember who, who did that, but there were at least a few people.

They were several that were like, I remember you at. Yeah. I thought that was kind of nifty. And that sweet man who thinks his wife, I was like, oh my gosh, well, now I want to read his book just because he was so nice to his wife. Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. It was emotional. I love that. Yeah. It's really, it's been. Fantastic. And then did either of you go, any of you guys go to the banquet? I did not. I went home on Saturday night. I knew I knew by Saturday evening I'd be too tired. So Sabrina, did you go to the banquet? I didn't go. I've gone a couple of times before. I didn't go this year. But I, that's also super inspiring because you're seeing like these amazing, like these authors that you just admire or of their getting awards or there's like names you've never even. been heard of that are up there with these major authors, like as nominees and stuff. It's super cool. Everyone gets all dressed up and it's very, like, fancy. But it's so, it's just great because it's, again, another one of those, like, inspiring things. And then usually you're hearing from people,

I love to get, like, the best debut novel. Like, that's my favorite category because, like, that's, like, how amazing your debut is, like, now you're an award. Do you know who won it? Do you know who won it. Because I know I was so excited that Kelly Garrett won for local missing woman. I know. I know. She did. Yeah. I loved that book. But I can't remember who the day you. It was an I think it was when I hadn't heard of before if I'm going to be honest. It happens. Here we go. Yes. Dave. Oh, it's not on their curious though. Oh, I think it was. Was it Kate Brody? No, no, no, no. It was Marie Tierney,

deadly animals. I'm pretty sure. Oh. Pretty sure. I'm not. Can I give it away? Hold on in it. Let me just look. Have you seen the proper before that? Hold on my second. That's the purple and black.

Hold on. I think. I could be wrong. Yeah. I didn't end up reading that one, but I know which one you're talking about. I feel like that's what I saw like on me. Or we could just go to. Have either of you guys read this? No. I haven't on my TVR, though.

It's, um. It's very cool. First of all, I love, I actually bought it because of the cover because I just, I just love it. But it's the coolest. It's been a while now since I, since I read it. I think it came out, God, maybe like nine months ago or 10 months ago or something. I can't remember. But it's about a, it's about a girl who's maybe like 12 or something or she's, she's in school, whatever she is.

But I don't think it's a young adult. But her hobby is like, collect, or not, she likes to like look. at like animals decomposing. I don't know why, but for whatever reason, she's kind of got, like, she had a taxidermy story. We're not really taxidermy, but like, like, studying, like, the decomposition of animals. It's the, but then she, one day, so she goes, she sneaks out at night. She lives by a freeway or a highway. Very frequently there's roadkill. And so she'll, she'll move the roadkill to, like, a place where she could, like, study it. But it, but it's in a very respectful way, like, you know, like a kind way. It's not like weird.

cereal floor look no no it's actually like a like no no it's actually like a really nice way like a kind way like she understands that the animals is dead like like a respect way right and she's and she studies that to see and she knows about like like when the flies come and when these different things they look at different parts of decomposition and so one day um some kid from her class is like killed and so she's it so she ends up um you know being being interested in his in his his decomposition and she ends up getting involved in trying to solve the murder but it's it's it's such an original idea and the writing is yes it is it's it the writing is very good it's very good and that would be a hard book you think it would be a hard book to pull off without being creepy or without

being like like like like like like like when it's not at all it's like um you because your death is hard of life you know and it's um it's uh it's it's just it's like you don't end up thinking that like she's like going to be a future serial killer you think she's a very kind person with a lot of emotional depth um it's it's a it's a it's a it's a great book man i can see why that won good for her all right yeah yeah well for anyone who's interested it's 299 on kind of or is it really so if you're listening now it's yeah there's there's that to know no good to know yeah that's fantastic so yeah i mean the banquet is it's great and the other wonderful thing that i love about thriller fest you have the banquet, it happens at the debut breakfast, it happens kind of all around, is all the free

books that you get. Yeah. Yeah. I see five books, which you definitely did. Free bucks. Yes. It is all about the books. Yes.

We usually come home with like a stack. Yeah. I controlled myself. I nearly because I was able to fit everything into a carry on. I see. I told Lizzie's Kate came to my room when she got that. and I was like, here's this, here's my strategy. Here's like my big, my big suitcase that I also have a foldable little like duffel bag that I put my clothes into on the way back so that I have room for my books in the thing I'm

checking. Because I also have done several years when I've shipped my books home. Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just like take them down to FedEx and you get them like a week or two later. Okay.

But it depends on how many books you buy. Usually it's like to me. Great. Last year I bought a whole lot in my suitcase. I didn't think about shipping them and I dragged it all home with my suitcase. It was super heavy. So this year I didn't buy as many books hardcovered by. I still end up buying quite a few like on my Kindle on my phone because I read a lot on my phone.

So, but then I couldn't have anybody sign them. But I still did that. I did, yeah, I did buy this one just because I needed. I like, I just wanted to go and talk to Ashley Elston. This was one of my favorite books. last year. I loved it. Yeah, me too.

She's talking about Prisely wins for anyone who's just on audio. Right. I just hold that. Yeah. Sometimes I do that. I'm like, and I love to this book because I go right with the synopsis and then Gare's like, that's great.

Can you tell the people what the book was? No. They have to guess based on the synodging. Yes. That's the game here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I just have some like random takeaways that I thought were cool for some places. So John Gresham, his first book was rejected by the publisher that he is now with. So his first one was rejected and now he's been with him for 35 years. So that's just one of those like just remember that like timing and preparation and all of like so many things go. So many things go into your lucky moment sometimes. So I thought that was really fascinating. Sorry to interrupt, but he's telling the story about where a time to kill came from.

Oh, my. Oh, my gosh. That's so powerful. So powerful. The book is super powerful as it is, but the info is based off some version of a real thing that he saw. and experience like just watched happening in a courtroom and I just can't imagine. Yeah. For anyone who doesn't know what a time to kill is about, it is about the father, correct,

of a daughter who's raped and the trial is going on and the father wants to kill the man who did it, essentially. And so basically very short version, the story that he told was like he was actually in the midst like was in a case where that was essentially happening where this woman was having to talk about all the terrible things that happened to her and um it was a little girl that had to like save this hall on this and then they took a break and then he walked by and he saw the guy sitting in there yeah he was like if that was my daughter i would want to and i get it i i'm not to say don't have kids but i feel that with him so he's

Yeah, it's crazy that like another one of those like his life experiences and forming some of the things that he wrote. And then there was a woman there who like raised her hand and like thanks him for writing it because her I was like about to start crying. She was like so close to me and I could see how emotional she was about it. But her grandma, I think or her mom. It's one of the two. Who was raped as a girl when she was young as well. And the book like made her feel seen. And like, understood and like people weren't afraid to talk about these kind of things and I'm like you think back to it was published too like we weren't we weren't talking about it as much I feel like you're talking about early 90s yeah it was yeah not quite as prevalent as we talk about now right so it I look those moments

are so cool too because as I've talked about a lot I think it's cool how books can expand our empathy yeah it's cool how it can make us aware of things we weren't aware of and and then in this place someone can feel like connected and like a part of someone who understands her. You know, someone wrote a legal thriller. It's just amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Sorry to Jarrell you, but that was like, that for me was such a powerful moment.

Like hearing that story. And then also the woman that was like, you know, your book touched my family in this way. Yeah. It made a big deal. Yeah. I saw she, she waited really long. She did get to get a picture with him. And I was like, I'm like, I'm like, just good.

Um, when, so he was on a panel before that as well that was about like, uh, Rambo. I can't remember what all the other ones were, but like creating really memorable characters essentially too. And Lisa Unger said something about how in her writing process, she stopped thinking about her characters as people she creates. But instead, they've kind of just become people she meets. And I was like, that's a very profound way to say it. And I don't even know if it's like that for everyone. thought it was fascinating. That makes so much sense because I will say as a newbie, stolen the newbie writer, sometimes there's that feeling of like characters

where I struggle a lot because I'm like, I don't know, like, I'm building this person. But all that like just switch it to you're meeting this person. It's the way built. You're just learning the details about that. Oh my God. Yeah. Lisa. Yeah, I love that. She also talked about how she discovered the two hours of the day where absolutely nobody wants anything from you family or otherwise is 4 a.m. to 6 a.m. And so if you want to do stuff, wake up and do it then. And I was kind of happy. Actually, if you're watching on video, you can see my dog here behind me. She's the one who's been waking me up at 4.30 lately. Like she, she turned 13 and all of a sudden was like, we need to wake up at 4.30.

But when Lisa was saying that, I was like, oh, Harley's just trying to help. She's like, bitch get working on your book yeah that's your work time mama this is your dream time go get it yeah it's amazing it really is true my sister-in-law and i talk about sometimes when you wake up early and the house is quiet and everything's dark no one's emailing you you're like this is kind of nice yeah yep uh i do i wake up a 4 am and i try to do my ride easily like five and seven like that's a good window because it's the same kind of thing that you like dark do you have a and then in arizona oh sister did you have a day job or something do you have kids or something like that with the reason, you know, during the day? Oh, nope. Okay, okay, but she just do first thing

anyway. Okay. I do a first thing. I'm also just the, um, oh, I have like my husband's here, my dog's here. I take care of my mom who has Alzheimer's. Okay. So you've got another thing there's going on. Never fails that there's other things, like something that happens, getting my book coaching certification. Like, there's tons of stuff going on. The only time that, the clearest time I have is right, right when I wake up. Yeah. And so. Yeah. And it's true, because no. Nobody else is around so you don't have to think about anything. Yep. Or anybody else.

The other thing, sorry, I'm just rambling now, but the other thing that I recently got some, I don't even remember where I got it from, is that I don't look at my phone anymore the first thing in the morning because it gives away all my dopamine. Like I dump my dopamine into my phone. And so then I go to write and I'm just like, hmm. But if I keep it, I'm actually a little bit more effective. It's like, that was, that was been gay-changer. Yeah.

Okay. That's a good point. How about you, Kay? You said you get up early too and you write first thing? I do. Um, lately it's been work, work that I'm doing that early because I'm kind of, I just am such a morning person. So my writing is not happening every day right now. Okay. Okay. So. And I wish it was and it will be again sometime. But it's not happening every day yet. I hope I hope we can get to that point again because that was when I was doing most of. it was like five o'clock essentially that's when I do it the best I do mine at night once we catch up on work yeah oh really yeah I do because because I so I like to what I like to do what I like to do without without fail is I like to exercise I just I just like to do it like that's my god I ever think you do right and then but then after that I got to get to my like my stupid job I shouldn't say like somebody from my work might be listening but I got to get to my job right I got to go to my job all day long and then I get home at night and then I get home at night

night, I need like an hour or two to just kind of like regroup. But then I feel like I've done all the things that I wanted to do. And there's nobody else that's like fine. My kids are grown up now. So there's nobody else is fine for my time. And so that's when that's when I write is at night. But I would like to one day, you know, be able to write in the morning. I really would. But it just is. It just, if I moved the working out to at night, then I couldn't fall asleep, you know. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that that's funny because you're saying, that, because it's something that I've thought about a lot. It's like, okay, the whole thing is we're trying to be healthy and, like, mind, body and all of the different things. And actually working out

clears my mind. Like, it helps me to get all the head trash not, right? Yep. But then I also find that I'm too tired right after I work out. I'm like, there's nothing. I've lost it all. So there's like got to be so sort of balance. But I'm interested in talking to you offline about lifting. Oh, yeah. I'll close to talk to you about lifting. We talked about that. We moved up with the podcast. I can talk about lifting forever. Yeah.

Okay. Kate, I do have a hard stop in about 10 minutes. Okay. Okay. Cool. Did you guys get any books while you were there? Or were there anywhere you came back and got them? I've been to show you.

I already showed the first lie wins. Even though I've read that book. So I read that book a few times. But I bought it just so she could cite it. Whenever I really, really like a book, sometimes I'll go back and I'll reread the book. Because I want to see, like, how they off. did it. But then there, while I was there, I didn't buy a hard copy, but I bought a few on my Kindle, just because people were talking. So these are, these are a couple of debut authors who,

who I talked to them and I bought their book. So one of them is called See How They Fall. It's by Rachel Harris. Okay. So that was one of my, those one of my, really cool cover. Yep. That was one of my, that was one of my, and then I also bought the book Treasure Coast by James Foley, who was one of my, um, one of my, um, one of my debut, uh, people. And then, um, this, this woman is not a debut with me, but I met her at the bar. I bought a Sweetwater by Kara Reynard, R-E-I-N-A-R-E-N-A-R-D. Yeah. Sweetwater, which that was, I think, her biggest book. So those were, those are the three Kindle ones that I bought while I was there. Yeah. Yeah. I also bought quite a few. And then there were like the free wants and stuff. But the first one is The Man in Room 7 by Karen Nordine.

Okay. She actually brought this to me because she lives in the Netherlands. There's a whole thing with like getting her books. It's hard to get her books. So she brought one. Wow. I was super excited. She's a fantastic author. But her, her sweet little lies was for sale in the bookstore. So I got Party of Liars. Oh yeah. Healthy Cox. So this was a free one. Okay. One of the free ones in, like, my bag. I mop this, and I never heard of it before. It is,

Now is the Time of Monsters by A.G. Mock. I don't know. Like, the cover just kind of got me. Yeah. It's really interesting. It's a great cover. And it says, her vision, her visions predict brutal murders.

One of them is her own. Ooh. And then inside, like you can see, that looks like real blind. Oh my gosh, it does. I love that. With, like, blood or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway. That's called, what's it called again? I just, I, it's called now is the time of monsters. Okay. I'm going to download a sample right now. Now is the time of monsters.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't know anything about it other than, I'll download a sample. Okay. Okay. I also got the disappearance of Trudy Solomon by Marcy McCrary. And I'm, I love this woman. And also I have a kindred spirit.

Her husband and her father both have Alzheimer's. And so she and I. talked a lot about that. And so wanted to support her in that. But also, this is a book about like the Catskills Hotel, like a whatever. She's so sweet. I met her too. Like a rich family that like loses everything kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. She's amazing. And then I bought The Watcher by Jennifer Cashley. That was pierced because I did not go to the signing that I bought this specifically for hurt you sign and then I got to start with something else and so I didn't get it signed but whatever I have a book I have three more okay smile for the camera by Miranda Smith um this came out while we were at

thriller fest I'm pretty sure um I didn't know anything about it other than I think it's slasher and I was like hey I'm in okay yeah it's like a horror like a horror actress gets stuck in the horror movie actually happening to our oh yeah it's good um the next one I got was don't open your eyes I also bought this early on because I thought Liv Constantine would be a Thrillerfest because they always are, but they weren't. So, like, okay. Great cover, though. She just bought this on love. Yeah. It's a cover. And then

last one, last one not least, is In Deadly Company. This was a free one by L.S. Stratton. She wrote a book a couple of years ago called Not So Perfect Strangers. That was one of my, like, favorite books of the year. And so I was excited to do this. And then I also didn't get to her signing as well. And no problem.

And then finally, I love it. Oh, good. Sorry, sorry. But yeah, so I got Arles Stein to sign this for a friend of mine who's a huge fan. So that was always, that was funny. I love that. Thanks for listening to as well call. Okay. Wow, that's a lot of books. Okay. I know. And that's actually not even all of them, but those are the ones I just decided for like worst. Right. Yeah. So I added a bunch during the debut breakfast. I think a decent amount of these are from there. But the Apartment by Jacqueline Faber. The cover is so cool. And it also sounded really good. It's dark academia, which is always interesting to me. It sounds really good and the cover is kind of creepy. And then there was one that is kind of YAA, but it still sounded interesting to me called Boys with Sharp Teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Be right. Okay. I've heard about this book, right? I've heard about this book. I don't know like Y-A, but I, um, the title. If nothing else, man, the title, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And the like little blurb says, we were liars meets the Raven Boys in a mind-bending debut about revenge, desire, and sinister secrets at an elite boarding school. Yep. And I'm like, on my radar. It's on my, I don't normally do Y-A, but that's on my radar. You butt. Same. Yeah.

Yeah, that one sounded really good. I was also really intrigued by Wildwood X. by Joel E. Turner. Okay. Sounds like it's kind of like noir. Okay. And I typically like noir. I think he said he lives off Wildwood Exit, maybe.

So it sounds like it's kind of like the setting might be a character almost a little bit, which I guess is common in noir. And then the other one, and it was the free book that I got in my bag, but I don't have it over here, is now you owe me by Alia Wright. Okay. And this is one about, um, this is twins. Sorry, like the cover. I was cool looking on the screen and I was like, holy crap. I sent it to Gare and stuff and I was like, guys, look at this cover. It's so creepy.

Now, yes. And so, I mean, like the tagline is they spent years abducting young women until one night they snatched the wrong one. I love it. And Sabrina is showing the cover. Oh, yes. I see that cover. Yeah.

guy right here with this like the thing it's like the strangers or whatever like that because of yeah i'm gonna download i'm gonna download a sample this too okay yeah and like this blur says it's like an intricate intricately woven plot in the vein of tana french or tana french sorry tana gillian flynn and karen slaughter and all right you're good yes yes so yeah i know i definitely was like definitely getting that i know i know I really want to read this one soon. Yeah. So this one, I think just recently came out.

Did it just recently come out? Of course, it's been out for a little while. September, 2024. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right.

I'm downloading example. I hope that this book is as amazing as I think it's going to be. I'm really excited. Yeah. Okay. Me too. So I'll follow up on that sometime on the podcast for everyone who, like, did you love it? You know what was, I just have a book that was that that's a debut.

actually wasn't mentioned it wasn't at our at our debut thing or the author wasn't there at least I don't think so I'm sure I would have noticed it has have any of guys read a thousand natural shocks I've only read the old thing it's one with the hand with the green

my Omar yeah I forget who it's by yes yeah but Omar Hussein yeah something like that Hussein I've only read the opening I have I've only read the opening but yeah he can write I had a really cool moment because the second cocktail night, I, like, got back from all the panels and I was like, I am just so tired.

I don't know if I have it in me. Yeah. And so I just sat on my bed in the dark for five minutes and was like, you have five minutes and then just pop back up and go down there. And I did. And I walked in and like shortly after it, he was talking to Elizabeth Rose Quinn, he walked up and was like, hey, are you book wild? Are you caves? And I was like, yeah. for the best.

Yeah. And he, he, like, reached out and he reached out to shake my hand. And he was like, I just really wanted to thank you for reading such an early supporter of my book. Because I were, and Elizabeth was like, oh, you read his book?

And I was like, yeah, I reviewed it on that galley. He was like, she was one of the first one, Steve and request it. And I was like, oh, my. So, I'm so glad I came down. Like the debut brunch, was he? Or was he part of the debut brunch? So, so the.

It would be next year, right? Oh, yeah. It probably would be next year. year because it came out this year. Okay, maybe that's what it was because, I mean, I would have realized he was on my debut panel, man, I would have been all over that. Okay. Well, that's really nice that he said that.

I thought he was there. It was. I know. It was very sweet. And then he even DMs me after, or he responded to one of my stories. Okay. My migraine saga trying to get home. Yeah.

He was like, I hope you're feeling better, but it was really nice to meet you. And I was like, oh, it was so nice to meet you. Hey. Wow. That's the best. Like, yeah. It's so amazing. It's just amazing to connect with people.

And especially, I just, I can't help it. I just am a huge fan of the debut authors just because, yeah, I was like, they're right there. They've done the thing that, like, you know, I want to do. But also, it's excited. Like, this is their dream. Their dream, your dreams come true. Lori, your dream came true. I know.

I can't even believe it. I remember. I remember where I was sitting. I remember. I was in my, is in the other room over there. I remember where I was sitting, everything, when the call came through from my agent, that he sold the book. But we sold it, right?

I remember that. And I, I remember that so well. I mean, it's one of the high points of my life, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's just, that's literally dreams coming true. And it's such a, like, it sounds so whimsical or whatever, but it's so powerful. It is so cool.

It's so cool being in those spaces with people. And in craft fest is a lot more of like hopefuls. I think to get to Thriller Fest and you see like the authors are there. So it's also like if you're going through the week, you kind of get to experience the whole ride. Oh, I didn't think of that. You're right. You're right. There's a progression to it.

You're right. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Well, Sabrina has some things to do. So we're going to wrap it up. I bet we probably could have talked for like four hours. I mean, talk about ourselves.

Yeah. Okay. But yeah, I mean, if anyone ever has questions about Thriller Fest, you could, I mean, Sabrina and Lori have been to more of the full conference, but you can DM us, you can do whatever. Yeah. I mean, I like, this is my favorite thing to talk about. Yeah. I'll gush about it all day. So. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad we got to see each other in real life and record this virtually. I know. Kate and I, we were going to do a recap on stuff. and both of us will up and we're like, nope.

That has not happened. Yeah, yeah. But we made it here. We made it here.