Bookwild - Thrillers from Indigenous Authors with Vanessa Lillie and Gare Billings

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

This week Vanessa Lillie and Gare “Bleak” Billings share recommendations from Indigenous authors for Native American Heritage Month, and I think I might be reading fast paced, paranormal horror for the rest of the year!   Check out these great recommendations:The Berry PickersBlood SistersNever Whistle at NightThe Only Good IndiansBad CreeThe Haunting of Room 904ShutterWinter CountsWhere They Last Saw HerThe Highway of TearsNever Name the DeadOn the Savage SideAnd Then She FellVencoIndian Burial GroundSisters of the Lost Nation Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

I'm here this week with Vanessa Lilly and Gere Bleak Billings, as I'm going to say, announcing you. And I was scrolling Bookstagram as all of us do earlier this month. And I saw that Vanessa is going to be highlighting more than 70, I believe is what the post said, um native or books for native american heritage month and i was like we always need to throw more books on people's tbRs so i was like would you want to come talk about them and then um wanted to get gears input too yeah yeah i'm super excited i'm super excited especially because like i have written articles for she reads and it was like at times a little bit of a struggle to find

books when I write about like indigenous stories. And so like when I saw your post, I was like, wow. Like I am going to be diving into so many of them. And I'm just super excited to like talk about it today. Yeah. Thank you guys for having. This is fun. Yeah. My challenge for myself was to post every day with some new titles. And there were about I think I have around 70 to 80 indigenous authors. So I'm hoping to post most of them. It's hard to like find a theme or I just posted today. I had to pop into Barnes & Noble because they had two special editions of it was the

the Barry Pickers, which is like a huge book this year. I mean, I think she probably sold like I don't even know. Amanda Peterson. She was her debut. And then the Mighty Red with Louise Urdrich, who's, she's on a Pulitzer. And she's like, but Barnes & Noble did special editions of both of these indigenous authors, which I mean, you got to like celebrate the wins, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I see the pretty big figures everywhere. And you were the free. You mentioned it when we talked about blood sisters. And I was like, wow, I'm starting to see it everywhere. Yeah, it got, I think it like won a new voices price when Barnes & Noble. and they did this cool special edition. So if there's any special, because you see special editions and romance so much, which, of course,

but you're seeing them more now in thrillers, which is cool. Or I guess these aren't exactly thrillers, but non-romance, you know, just for people who love to collect books. And, like, Geneva Rose has a cool special edition coming out with the, like, red edges, I think. I don't know. I just, like, see. I mean, I love romance and Romanticy special editions.

That's, like, cool. But, I mean, I feel like, Like, we all like them in all genres that we read. So it's fun to see that. Yeah, especially when this special edition looks like it has a little blood splatter on it. I'm like, the weight of my heart. You're right. Those are the vibes I'm looking for in my own.

Yeah, I'm like, oh, my God, this is immaculate. I love it. Yeah. I know. I could go broke with all these special editions coming out lately. I want the Evelyn Hugo one, too. It has like the seven rings around the outside of the pages. But I don't need it.

I don't even read physical books. I don't need a second copy of it. But a special edition, like I feel like a year from now you're going to be kicking yourself in the ass. Like, why did I just do it? I know. Because they're gone, right? Like, kind of once they're sold out, they're sold out.

I think so. Yeah. All right, everybody get lots of special editions. And then like it'll be online for like $2 to $300. Like I've done that before. or like a special edition, like romance that I wanted. I was like, I don't need like eight copies of this. And then the next thing I know, I don't get the one that I would have paid $40 for.

And then when I decide I want it, it's like $2 to $250. Yikes. So just always buy all the books is the most important message here. Because the worst thing is that you could be the person that like sells it for $250 if you decide you don't want it later. Right. So you're making a profit. Yeah. It's like an investment basically.

Yeah. It's like crypto. I love that. It's totally like crypto. Just like crypto. Buying special edition is just like crypto. Follow me for more financial advice. I was going to say. I was going to say.

We're not only a bookish podcast. We have financial education. Yes. Yes. So, man. Yeah. Well, who wants to go first? I don't get.

Should we do like back and forth? I wonder if we're going to have some matching books. So these are all indigenous reads. Is that right? Yeah, mine are all indigenous authors. Mm-hmm. Okay. So we might have some matches.

I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited, too, for my first pick. So maybe I'll just pop this little puppy in, a book that I've never stopped thinking about. Oh, this is so good. I'm so happy. How could I not?

Are you joking? This is like one of my favorite books. I'm obsessed. I know. I'm just thinking about it, too. I am so. obsessed. Obviously, for the listeners, he just pulled up Vanessa's book and showed it to us. Yeah. And now she's holding it up. Yeah. I was like, well, I obviously have to highlight this one because

this was, so this was like a reading experience for me where like I started your book and I was like, I'm going to try to like devour like a hundred pages. Oh my God. I know. It's so true. Sorry, my dog is here. my son was like, can I hear the dog on? I'm like, I'm only in the middle of the podcast. I know my dog is here. She wants to hear too, though, Gare. Keep going. Yeah, yeah. This was like one of those situations where I was like, oh, I'm going to try to read like 100 pages today. Like, take my time with it. Like, you know, like devour every sentence. And then the next thing I know, I'm like up at like 1 o'clock in the morning and I finish it. it's just so good and if you don't know what Bloodsisters is about

as an archaeologist for the Bureau of Indian Affairs Sid Walker spends her days in Rhode Island trying to protect the land's indigenous past even as she's escaping her own while Sid is dedicated to her job she's haunted by the night of violence she barely escaped in her Oklahoma hometown 15 years ago even though she swore she'd never go back

the past comes calling. When a skull is found near the crime scene of her youth, just as her sister, Emma Lou vanishes, Sid knows she must return home. She refuses to let her sister's disappearance or the remains go ignored, as so often happens in cases of missing native women. But not everyone is glad to have Sid home,

and she can feel the crosshairs on her back. Still the deeper Sid digs, the more she uncovers about a string of missing indigenous women cases going back decades. To save her sister, she must expose a darkness in the town that no one wants to face. not even Sid. What a freaking

Odyssey, my friend. Obsessed. Thank you. Oh my God. There's like, I was just going to say like the action in it. I was like, oh my God. Butterflies, like nervous stomach.

I just am completely, completely obsessed. I love that because I as a reader, I'm such an impatient reader. I want stuff to be happening all the time. And it's so funny because then when you're a writer, you're sitting down, you're like, okay, you're boring me, writer, Vanessa. So there's like, I'm like, I need a car chase here. Like, it was definitely, like, I had to amp it up for myself as a reader, too. So I'm glad you enjoyed the action. It was really fun to write. I, it was

very fun to read. Like, so growing up with different things happening, like, on our reservation, I like always assumed it was like an hour reservation sort of problem and things that occurred here but like didn't really realize obviously until I got older that like this is something that happens like throughout all different reservations whereas like the missing indigenous women and how it's like not investigated how some of the crime that can happen on reservation is not looked into as much as it would if it would. it would happen off from a reservation. So like, when I was reading this, I was like, you know, this really like hits home for me

because there were so many things that were happening where like the police weren't called or the police weren't showing up. And I was like, but this is why. Like this is exactly her point. You know, with all like, you can't have a car chase in like Los Angeles or New York City without like, you know. So like when it's happening on a reservation, I was like, wow. Like, it's not just here.

And right around the time that I read this, I had watched Wind River. And it just, like, between your book and watching the end of that movie, I was like, it is horrifying because there's, um, there's like a little message at the end of the movie that, like, indigenous women are the only race that, like, they actually don't have a number or even like an estimate of how many of them are like missing or murdered because they. just no one has really taken care of those statistics. Yeah, absolutely. And we're only even just getting a language around it. I mean, so Bloodsitters is set in 2008, and the term missing and murder indigenous women wasn't even used yet. It's really just within the past few years and like, thank God for social media

because people can share information and they started to just see, I mean, we know that this is an issue, but it's, only when you start to really start communicating it across the board. And TV and film and books are actually a part of that. Because it, like, tell stories that are familiar and then you can advocate, I think, in a lot of ways. And, like, thank God people are talking about it more. Not enough, but more for sure.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I remember, like, a few years ago, I read The Highway of Tears book by Jessica McDiarmid. And that was like a huge slap in the face for me to read that and be like, I can't believe for like decades and decades. My mom has a friend who like she was out like, I mean decades ago. She was out with her cousin and like she went to leave the bar and the cousin was like, I'm going to stay behind and then they found her like she was murdered that night and they

still don't know who did it. And it's just like, I mean for decades, you know. And it's not really necessarily. Like it's, there's more coverage and there's more awareness, but like I wouldn't say it's like getting better. No, because it has to get better at the level of the person who sees their lives as lesser, right? I mean, that's where it has to get. I mean, it's important for the rest of us to sort of advocate for it. But the sickness is in, you know, stereotype and viewing indigenous women as something that is disposable.

which is sort of the view of colonialism and this country for most of its history, right? I mean, that was sort of what was taught and that erasure and kind of othering. And so that level of, it's really a healing almost that has to take place in order for there to be a respect of life. and for it to happen in these places where for generation after generation, you know, there was no real value put on these women's lives in particular because they were just indigenous women on a reservation or, you know,

or these like main camps, which was like what Renover was where they come in and have no regard at all for the community that's there and just sort of treat it like trash can, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And so there is a lot of work to. do around that. And it's not just certainly indigenous women. I mean, there's, you know, many women of

color. I mean, when you look at statistics of crime solved and, you know, to be a murdered black woman versus a murdered white woman and the likelihood of your crime actually being solved, right? So there's, you know, issues at the heart of all of it. But, yeah, it's a bummer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I live, like, right, like, I'm, like, right on the Canadian border. So, like, the trafficking is, like, a lot worse here than, like, some other places. And that's, like, something that, you know, it's obviously, like, terrifying and really sad, too. Because there's a lot more cases where people can just take a bow and be in a different country and, you know, go there illegally.

And it's scary. Yeah, it's really. And, you know, even if there is a crime, again, that, like, who's responsible? who answers it. You know, I mean, all of those really hard questions. I mean, in the U.S., you know, the FBI never gets involved unless it's drug, basically. And so, wasting women. And like, you know, like within Blood Sisters, you know, I made her sister have like some drug problems or whatever.

Because that's sort of the excuse that so often gets used, which is, oh, well, they have a drug problem. They've just ran off. It's like instead of taking the case seriously or heaven forbid they have a record or something. It's like, oh, because you committed a drug problem. crime suddenly your life doesn't have value. Yeah. Yeah. All of those issues come up for sure. Yeah.

Oh my God. My dog is eating all the plastic. I feel so crazy. One of my favorite things about Blood Sisters, the paperback, I just have to highlight this because I'm a geek about it, is there's a map. Are you guys a many people? I love a map. Yeah. You too. So there's a map in it of northeastern Oklahoma and like different landmarks.

from the book, all like based on real places. You know, I mean, you can line this up with North East, Eastern Oklahoma. So that was kind of cool. And then it's got all the different tribal lands, like the KwaFa Nation. I mean, there's like seven or eight here. So that was kind of fun too. That's really cool. Just, again, like you don't get maps as much in thrillers.

And yet they're so awesome. I always want a map. I always love a map. I always love a map. I'm like horrible with direction. So I'm like, when you say like five minutes away and you're like northeast to here, I'm like, okay, give me the map. No idea what that means. Yeah.

I'm just like, I don't know. Put it in the GPS. I love it. It's amazing. I should, one last thing. I just keep talking about my book. I just always improv. But for people who I do have a further reading guide in the paperback too.

So we'll probably hit on some of these as well, but there's a little list of I chose all women indigenous writers, kind of a combo of some thrillers and then a few others. So that's also like a fun thing to check out. Oh, I like that. Very cool. Yeah. Now I'm going to need a second edition of that book. Right. Let me remind.

I will mail you one. Just remind me. I will order one. I will order one. I mean, I don't mind. Friends support friends. God. Okay, so I have one that's like probably the indigenous book of the year.

Okay. Just never, never whistle at night. I love that. So this is, so this is a really cool book. So first of all, it's an anthology, which I don't know if you guys, do you guys read a lot of short stories? I haven't. Not for any reason. Yeah.

I know. I same. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't. but like I'm reading a short story right now and I'm like it's everything's like going so quickly and I'm like I'm like I'm kind of into this like I'm into this kind of feeling of like reading a story that feels like like a short like Tales from the Crypt episode you know like instead of like a full like movie so like that's what I kind of compare it to but yeah I'm like I'm really into this dip in yeah I actually just on USA Today the best fellow list I was just looking today and there's actually a new queer anthology that just came out um I was like oh I'm gonna have to pick that up. But so Never Whistle at Night was put together by two indigenous writers. So Shane Hawk and Theodore Van Alst Jr.

And so they basically worked with Vintage, who put this out, and they did a combination of more well-known, more established indigenous authors with first time ever being published indigenous. authors or writers really um was such a cool idea but there's um a couple like you got names you guys might write like well Tommy orange who of course did like they're there and wandering stars um and then um david heska winnobbly whiten who did uh winter counts which is one of the books i brought too like he has a story in there nick medina who i have one of his talk about in a minute too so there's like these you know a little more well-known authors but it's so nice because then you get brand new

voices. So this collection, you know, it's just, it's like 30 stories. It's, you know, not super long. So they're pretty short and sweet. But what's so cool is that you can just really dip in and you maybe meet a new indigenous author. You're like, oh, that was a really cool story. And then you can kind of go check out their backlist. But this has been on the indie bestseller list for like 60 weeks. It was on, it was on USA Today still. I just, I guess, I was just reading the list. And it was still on there. So this is pretty much, I would say, one of the better selling. Actually, this and I bet the Barry Pickers actually is another title.

It's been an absolute bestseller this year. So this is a great one, and it's paperback and the cover's really vibrant. And it's fun to just, you know, like just have on hand whenever you're in the mood to just read something quickly. And each of them are obviously from different tribes. So you've just got, you know, maybe it's this is a Cherokee. you know, myth here and a something here. And you just get tastes of these, you know,

individual experiences from all over, um, well, the continent really, because there's Canadian as well. So that's really cool. I have to check that out. I love the title too.

Like that is like so intriguing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Connected to the sort of legend around, you know, you don't whistle at night. A lot of times sort of, you know,

yeah. Say it's dangerous. Calls in the spirits. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that sounds so good. I need to check that out. I need to check that out.

Well, one of mine was a book that, The Only Good Indians by Stephen Graham Jones, probably, yeah. Yeah, yeah, obsessed. Obsessed with the cover. And it is so good. it's four Native American men who after a disturbing event from their youth puts them in a desperate struggle for their lives

they're being tracked by an entity bent on revenge the childhood friends are helpless as the culture and traditions they left behind catch up in them in a violent, vengeful way so this was actually like one of my first like horror novels that I read and I just was completely like terrible. terrified and disturbed the entire time because like growing up here like there were so many like native urban legends that like I you know again like naively thought that this was like solely like our reservation is haunted none of the other so then like reading this and like seeing some of like the native like legends that like you know are based on like different tribes or

some of like the different like, you know, native like things like you said, like never whistle at night. And just like seeing some of like those things, it's kind of like there are so many like urban legends and like superstitions around like native culture that like people don't like fully realize. You know, like they say like if a bird poops on your head that like people are like, oh, that's good luck. But there's like, you know, like completely something different and like Native American culture when it comes with like births. You know, like owls, like seeing an owl, a lot of, which I love Al, so I was, I never loved that one. But yeah, owls are like bad bad moments and bad bad luck. Yeah, yeah. And like that's like, I like still like, I mean, nothing's ever like horrible has happened me personally. But like there be a lot of times where I'm taking my dog out at night, like you like hear an owl. Like very loudly. And I'm like, oh my God. I don't know. But no, like it was just like a fun read because like, there's. There's so many, like, terrifying things, like, growing up. Like, there's a road by me. And they said that there's a lady that lives in the corn husks.

And, like, if you drive your car a certain speed down the road, when it's dark out, you can see her running along your car in the corn field. There's, like, shapeshifters, like, my... That's really big. In Upper Peninsula, I was reading some Reddit threads about shapeshifters. Yeah, yeah. And like... They were so scary.

And Skinwalkers. Oh, and Skinwalkers too. Talks of those. Yeah. Like my, my friend Tyler is native as well. And like he like will not even like that like terrifies him to like no end. No end.

Like he won't even like say it out loud because it's just like... Yeah. I mean there is a thing around even saying it. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a relative who like was walking home one night and she like saw like, the, like, where the moon, like, was across the field.

She could see somebody, like, walking, like, on two legs. And then they, like, all of a sudden went to four and just started, like, running. And I was like, no, no, no, no. No, I don't. Thank you. You do not find me at night. No. No.

I, um, in Blood Sisters, I just wrote a little bit about the spook light, which is in Northeastern Oklahoma, which I've seen. And it's been documented by the army, all kinds of things for, you know, decades. But it's just sort of a floating orb. So that's, you know, eerie. And it will split. It'll go through your car. I mean, it's unexplainable. Yeah. The only one I've, I don't even know if I could like fully say I experienced it was there's like a legend around here that there's this like big foot sort of entity that like smells really, really bad and is like covered head to toe and hair and it sounds like a woman screaming so when you go to try to help the woman

that is screaming you run into this thing and you know you are attacked um and the only time i've experienced that is like when i was at a friend's house like near the woods and i could hear a woman screaming and i like did not say goodbye i just grabbed my car keys and like got in my car and i drove like back to my house, but like that's the only thing that like I've experienced thus far. But I'm also like, if I hear something like that, like I'm not like I'm not going into the woods. You know, I'm not, I'm not driving down the road looking into the corn husks. I'm just like, I will listen to your story and I will keep my ass at home. You would not be a good main character of a horror novel. You're like, the novel's done at chapter one. You like get your shit and you just pack it up and

you leave. Yes. No, I would not. I would not. I would not. I, had like a very strange issue this earlier this week where I saw like a man walking with like a metal baseball bat down the sidewalk of my friend's house and I was like trying to get his attention to be like like what is that? And he was like no, you don't you don't call me to the window. You get your ass in the house and lock the door. So like he was like if this were a scary movie, like you would be drew Braymore than a heartbeat. And like that's probably more like my luck is like just like not realizing something's dangerous. until I'm dead.

Yeah. I would not survive the beginning of a novel. I'm such a chicken. I wouldn't either. Another good horror novel that I highly recommend is back three. She's Canadian. I love this book. Let's see. Here's a little bit about it.

So it's supernatural horror. When McKinsey wakes up with a severed crow's head. in her hands, she panics. Only moments earlier, she has been fending off masses of birds in a snow-covered forest. In bed when she blinks, the head disappears. Night after night, McKenzie's dreams return her to a memory from before her sister Sabrina's untimely day, a weekend at the family's lakefront campsite, long obscured by a fog of guilt. But when the waking world starts to close in, a murder of crows stalks her every move around the city. And she weeks up from a dream of droning, throwing up water.

And she gets threatening text messages from someone claiming to be Sabrina. McKinsey knows this is more than she can handle alone. Traveling north of her rural hometown in Alberta, she finds her family still steeped in the same grief that she ran away from to Vancouver to escape. They welcome her back, but their shaky reunion seems to intensify her dreams and to make them more dangerous at the lake. and what did it have to do with Sabrina's death? Only a bad cree would put their family at risk.

But what if whatever has been calling McKinsey home was already inside? This sounds so, like, scary and good. The best words I have. Yeah, and she's a great writer, so it moves, but it's so creepy. Like, I loved it. And I've been seeing it a lot, too. I think it's been really resonating with booksellers and people. Like, it's, I feel like it's building.

So, yeah, Bad Creed by Jessica Johns. This is great. I've been seeing it everywhere as well. And I am so intrigued. I'm obsessed with that cover, first of all. Yeah, it's gorgeous. I am so intrigued because it sounds so, like, intricate. But I'm also, like, this might be the thing that, like, causes me to not sleep.

for week. Right. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm like very intrigued by it, though. I think I just have to like read it only during the daylight. Well, that opening sentence, like she wakes up with a severed crow's head in her hands and panics.

I was like, well, yeah, I would too. That's terrifying. Yeah. I've been having, I've been having bird issues lately. where like it will I'll be outside and it'll be like completely silent and then like the next thing you know there's like 30 to 50 crows like swarming around me and like in the trees and stuff

and I'm like I'm not I don't want to see a crow anytime soon so if I wake up with the crows head in my hand tonight it's a problem yeah yeah no crows for me I want to highlight a book that I just received an arc of

So this doesn't come out until March of 2025. But I feel like I have to talk about it because it sounds so good. It is called The Haunting of Room 904 by Erica T. Worth. I'm so excited for this. That cover is sick. And she is basically somebody who has like a reputation of being like a gritty, punkish voice in horror. and this one is about Olivia Bicente, who was never supposed to have the gift. The ability to commune with the dead was the specialty of her sister, Nashi.

But when the sister dies unexpectedly and under strange circumstances, somehow Olivia suddenly can't stop seeing and hearing from spirits. A few years later, she's the most in-demand paranormal investigator in Denver. She's good at her job, but the loss of her sister haunts her. That's when she hears from the Brown Palace, a landmark Denver hotel. The owner can't explain it, but every few years a girl is found dead in room 904, no matter what room she checked into the night before. As Olivia tries to understand these disturbing deaths, the past and present collide as her investigation forces her to confront a mysterious and possibly dangerous cult, a vindictive journalist, portrayal by her friends, and shocking revelations about her sister's secret life. So I literally just requested that on that galley as you were speaking.

It sounds. It sounds so, so good. Being able to like communicate with spirits is something that I don't often see a lot in like indigenous writing. But I'm excited to read more stories from that perspective because that's something that I've always been very intrigued by. Erica's debut was Whitehorse. Yeah. So that was a really cool. Also kind of a sister.

Well, it was her mother who had passed. And there was like a special bracelet that connected them. And it was also set in Colorado. So that's where I think that's where Eric is from. So that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to read that one.

I just got it this week. And then I was like, oh, this is perfect. Yeah, that's a hot galley right there. Yeah. I have it. Not off the price. So I have another paranormal kind of investigator vibe, Shutter by Ramona Emerson. So it's a series. The second one just came out. So Shudder's the first one. The second one is called exposure. And so it's about, so Rita is a forensic photographer working for the Albuquerque Police Force.

Her excellent skills have cracked many cases. She is almost super. supernaturally good at capturing details. In fact, Rita has been hiding a secret. She sees the ghosts of crime victims who point her toward the clues that other investigators overlook. As a lone portal to the living world for traumatized spirits, Rita is terrorized by nagging ghosts who won't let her sleep and who sabotaged her personal life. Her taboo and psychologically harrowing ability was what drove her away from the Navajo Reservation, where she was raised by her grandmother. It has isolated her from friends and gotten her in trouble with the law, and now it might be what gets her killed. When Rita is sent to photograph the scene of a supposed suicide on a highway over the furious,

discombobulated ghost of the victim who insists she was murdered, latches onto Rita, forcing her on a quest for revenge against her killers. And Rita finds herself in the crosshairs of one of Albuquerque's most notorious cartels. Written in sparkling, gruesome prose, Shutter is an explosive debut, from one of crime fiction's most powerful new voices. Sounds so good. It's great. And I think it was,

I think this is kind of the first edition. I believe she won at least a couple awards for Shudder. And she's a Dene writer or Navajo. So it's cool because she, you know, writes about her tribe and her community. And there's a lot of flashbacks in that. which is really nice and so you get a lot of the kind of cultural richness as well as the like great hook of talking to spirits to self-crimes yeah yeah i feel like i just want to read it like

horror for the rest of the year yeah i know i know i've read um well i read um leave the girls behind by jacqueline bubblets and that had some somebody who, like, communicates with the dead. Um, and please see us by Caitlin Mullen has like a clairvoyant. And so like that combined with like indigenous culture, I feel like would be really good because I, I've never really been like a paranormal person. But like when it's like in a story in that sort of sense, it's very intriguing to me. So like now I, I need to read that.

It sounds so good. Sounds so good. We're just always in spooky season. It is always spooky season. Oh, 100%. I either want to be like, I either want to feel like depressed and like bleak at the end of the story or I want to be like terrified. I want to be like sad or scared.

Yeah, those are the vibes. Those are my only vibes. Like a happy ending. I'm like, oh God. How traditional. No, that sounds so good. I'm adding all of these. my good means too as you bring them up because I mean great taste um well one of mine um

is one that you mentioned earlier it's um winter counts by david haska wambly weeden um it's just so good it's virgil wounded horse is the local enforcer on the rosebud indian reservation in south Dakota. When justice is denied by the American legal system for the tribal council, he's hired to deliver his own punishment, the kind that's hard to forget. When heroin makes its way into the reservation and finds Virgil's nephew, his vigilantism, suddenly becomes personal. He enlists the help of his ex-girlfriend and sets out to learn where the drugs are coming from and how to make them stop. They follow a lead to Denver and find that the drug cartels are rapidly expanding and forming new and terrifying alliances. Back on the reservation, a new tribal council and

initiative raises uncomfortable questions about money and power. As Virgil starts to link the pieces together, he must face his own demons and reclaim his native identity. Another, like, action, action-pack story. But I loved this one because, again, it was like the issues with drugs on reservations is more prominent throughout different reservations instead of just like specific ones. And I also loved like reading more of like a political thriller between the,

yeah, like the Indian Council and then the American legal system. And obviously he did a ton of research or he like knows everything there is. He does know. Yeah. Yeah, he's a professor. Like he had an op-ed even in the New York Times. around the McGirt decision, which was in Oklahoma, that basically allowed for like the Cherokee nation and other nations to take control again of what they were legally, by treaty, we're

supposed to have as their nations, but were taken away. And I don't begin to understand all of it, but David was like writing about it, you know, from a like professor's standpoint, which you can feel it in the book, right? It's like, 100%. He knows his stuff. It's like the, you know, the, because the Virgil, the main character is there because the legal system is failing. Because terrible things are happening on the reservation that either the FBI or local enforcement don't care about because it doesn't warrant their attention. And so he has to come in to men justice for a price. It's like his job.

But to understand that because it's really complex. And David in this book, I agree, really does a good job of sort of making it actually. like a guy like seeking justice but then you get a sense of the real legal ramifications of when this isn't done well like you know children families are really hurt um because of justice yeah yeah and he does an exceptional job at like explaining things with like how much he knows about them but also kind of like dumbing it down a little bit for us who like don't know a lot about like the american legal system. So I was just like, wow, because I've never really read a story like that before. Like, I usually don't read like political or legal thrillers. And with that one, I was just like, wow.

Like I was like into it the entire time. And it was like enraging, but like also like extremely informative as well. But yeah, it's just like an incredible story. I did an event with David. I live in Providence were Brown University as in he had, I think, a month-long residency there. And so we did an event together. And I was really lucky for me because I got to hear the first chapter of the sequel to Winter Counts, which is coming out, I think, in 2025. Oh, my God. And it was really good. And so Virgil's back, this is my point. Good, good, good, good, good. Get caught up everybody. Yeah. I think the sequel should be coming out in the next year. So that's exciting. That's definitely one that I, I read and I was like, I immediately want more from that character.

Yeah. Like Sid Walker, like my girl said. Oh, thank you. Oh, God. I'm editing the sequel right now. God. I'm excited. Thanks.

Yeah. I've been like, I'm excited. I've been thinking about it like a lot. And I'm like, I don't know if it was you. There was like something where like it was announced on social media. that Sid Walker was going to be a series. Like Blood Sisters was not a stand alone.

So I've just been like thinking about it because like I have my shelf right here of like these are like my favorites like the books that I think about very often. And she's about number four in. Because four is my lucky number. And I just sometimes look at her spine and I think of my girl said. Thank you. That means a lot in the depths of edits right now. So I'm trying to do.

by her. She's in a little trouble. So. Well, I'm very excited. Thank you. Yeah. I'm, I'm hoping, you know, in the next month or two, we'll do like a cover thing. Like, I know they've started on some concepts and we'll do, you know, a big enough.

It'll be, it's supposed to be the end of October, you know, 2025 again. So. Nice. That's exciting. Um, so I got another kind of thriller. So Marcy Rendon has an amazing series. It's the Cash Black Bear series. And I believe there are three books.

It's a award-winning series. And I think there are three. She's maybe working on the fourth three. So she wrote this great series. But this is her first standalone. This was a Target book club pick, too. So here's a little bit more. It's where they last saw her is her new standalone.

So Quill has lived on the Red Pine Redfin reservation in Minnesota her whole life. She knows what happens to women who look like her. Just a girl when Jimmy Sky jumped off the railway bridge and she ran for help, Quill realizes now that she's never stopped running. As she trains for the Boston Marathon early one morning in the woods, she hears a scream. When she returns to search the area, all she finds are tire tracks and a single beaded earring. Things are different now for Quill than when she was a lonely girl. Her friends, punk and Galen are two women who don't know what it means to quit. And her loving husband, Crow, and their two beautiful children challenge her to be better every day. So when she hears a second

woman has been stolen, she is determined to do something about it, starting with investigating the group of men working the pipeline construction just north of their homes. As Quill closes in on the truth about the missing women, someone else disappears. In her quest to find justice for all of the women of the reservation, she is confronted with the hard truths of their home and the people who purport to serve them. When will she stop losing neighbors, friends, and family? As Quill puts everything on the line to make a difference, the novel asks searing questions about bystander culture, the reverberations of even one act of crime, and the long-lasting trauma of being considered invisible. That's a really great synopsis even. I know. I know. It hits a lot of

things. I mean. Have you read it? Have you read it? You did? So it's on my TBR and I was going to discuss it tonight to see if you had read it because I can't stop staring at the cover. It sounds so good. It sounds like there's so much going on and I was going to ask you if you read it

but now this just solidifies that like I will be I will be picking it up. I read it too. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. The community piece, right, of the women like supporting each other is so strong. in it. I mean, there's crime and pain in that way, but I love that she had built this community. And her husband is great. And there's just, there's some, it's a dark story. Would you say, Kate?

But it's got a lot of hope and community in it. Yeah. Her friends are like, like, they're still in my mind, too. They're very, like, distinct. Like, all three, I think it's three of them kind of. Like, I just, like, remember, like, they were just, they were just so, you. unique and memorable together. And I think you'll probably read it in like a daycare. Like I did you read it? Yeah. I read it really fast. Yeah. I think I read it on a weekend.

Yeah. Her writing's really crisp. And it's cold. Yeah. It's a pretty seasonally. So I read it when I was, when it was like still way too hot in like September. And I was like, fuck it. I'm reading a book. It has snow. Yeah. Yeah, you put it on my radar with our anticipated fall reads.

Yeah. And like August, I think. Yeah. Yeah. That cover just caught my eye on that galley immediately. I got to jump over to Canada and see if they have it in stock for it. Yeah. That's my closest bookstores in Canada.

So I ought to like pop over. Yeah. Well, sometimes you get different covers too, which is kind of exciting. Yeah. And a lot of things come out in paperback instead of hardcover, which is nice. Yes. which is nice for me. I do not.

No, if I, like, tear the dust jacket, I will be pissed for life. Yeah. It's always, like, getting caught on my sweater or my dog. Which two things I always have as a sweater and a dog. Yes. But I am not a huge nonfiction reader. But I do want to highlight the Highway of Tears by Jessica McDiarmid.

I did mention this one earlier, but I think that for anyone who isn't fully aware of some of the issues with the missing and murdered indigenous women and the Highway of Tears specifically in British Columbia, this is a really, really good nonfiction book

because the thing that I really respect about her as a journalist and as a writer is that this was not one of those clues where it was like, here's victim number one, here's victim number two, here's why we think they're correlated. And I feel like a lot of times, especially with crimes against women, it is more so about like, here are these horrible things that happened to these women, and here's how we connected it to find this guy. But it's not like, this woman was a mother, this woman was a sister, this woman was like somebody's best friend, their daughter. And with a lot of the victims in this story,

she actually, like, interviewed their families and, like, talked about, like, who they were as, like, a human being before they went missing or were found murdered. Um, so Highway of Tears is a Syrian account of the missing and murdered indigenous women of Highway 16 and an indictment into the society that failed them. For decades, indigenous women have gone missing or have been murdered along, an isolated stretch on Highway 16 and Northern British Columbia. The highway is known as the Highway of Tears, but has come to symbolize a national crisis. Journalist Jessica McDiarmid investigates the devastating effect of these tragedies

have had on the families of the victims and their communities and how systemic racism and indifference have created a climate where indigenous women are over-policed, yet underprotected. Through interviews with those closest to the victims, mothers and fathers, siblings and friends, McDiarmid offers an intimate firsthand account of their loss and relentless fight for justice. Examining the historically fraught social and cultural tensions

between settlers and indigenous people in the region, McDiarmid links these cases to others across Canada, now estimated to a number up to 4,000, contextualizing them with the broader examination of the undervaluing of indigenous lives in the country. yeah it's just extremely sad and very powerful but like you know the fact that this has been going on for decades on this one road in British Columbia and it's up to that was years ago I think I read this in maybe 2018 or 19 so like 4,000 is probably a lot higher now but it's just such an incredibly powerful story and I feel like it's definitely one that like should have a lot higher now um but it's just such an incredibly powerful story and I feel like it's definitely one that like should have the same amount of popularity as

I'll be gone in the dark. Her writing is just fantastic and the way that she includes these interviews, it was just a very tough but important read. Yeah, the voice to the victims

actually just made me think of bright young women because the idea that it's not just about the killer. It's about the women who are a part of the story and should lead the story. And that's wonderful, especially with true crime, because you really can get away from that pretty easy.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I get frustrated with when I watch any documentaries. It's like, oh, like, here's Jessica. She was this, you know, college student and she had, like, a boyfriend, and, you know, she was 22, and then they move on. You know, like, you don't really, like, it's not about, like, them as a person. It's about, like, what the worlds and people and community have lost with, you know,

this one person. So I think that Jessica McDiarmid did a fantastic job with that because it's something that I don't really see a lot in true crime. I cried a lot when I read that book. Oh, I bet. And I'm not a crier. But yeah, it's hard not to. But yeah, it's a really good book. I've got two left.

Okay, I have one left. Okay. So never name the dead. So this book came across my desk because I judged the Edgar Awards, which are through Mystery Writers in America. And the Mary Hickens Clark, that was such a fun opportunity. They just send you tons of books and you read them and then you kind of meet as a committee and pick up favorites.

And so this is one of the ones that, you know, came to the top. It's D.M. Rowell, never named the dead. and just a little bit about it. Actually, it's compared to winter counts, which makes sense now that I'm thinking about it. So no one called her mud in Silicon Valley. There she was May, a high-powered professional who had left her Kiowa roots behind a decade ago.

But a cryptic voice message from her grandfather, James Sopold, telling her to come home, sounds so wrong that she catches the next plane to Oklahoma. She never expected to be plunged into a web of theft, betrayal, and murder. Mud discovers a tribe in disarray. Fracking is damaging their ancestral lands. Kiwa families are being forced to sell off their artifacts, and frackers have threatened to kill her grandfather over his water rights.

When Mud and her cousin Denny discover her grandfather missing, accused of stealing the valuable Jefferson Peace Medal from the tribe museum, and stumble across a body in his workroom, Mud has no choice but to search for answers. mud sets out into the wildlife refuge determined to clear her grandfather's name and identify the killer. But Mud has no idea that she's about to embark on a vision quest that will involve the seat, greed, and a charging buffalo, or that a murderer is on her trail. This sounds so action-packed. Like, I'm here for all the fast-paced ones.

Yeah. It was, and I loved, the buffalo thing's funny. My Uncle Ray had a buffalo in Welch, Oklahoma. My gosh. His name was Charlie. And he would escape all the time and terrorize the town. She's the local buffalo. I love to.

I know. So I love that it's sad in Oklahoma where I'm from, and I love that there is also a buffalo. And also the tribal issues are really important too. But, you know, sometimes it's just the little things that you connect with. And I was like, this should be an award-nominated book for a lot of reasons. One of them is the buffalo. Yes. It's amazing.

I love it. I need to read that one, too. It's a fast read. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't look too chunky either. But if you are into chunky books.

Uh-oh. I have on the savage side. Yes. Tiffany McDaniel. Not necessarily a indigenous story, but she is an indigenous author. And I just feel like I can't talk about like indigenous authors without mentioning because this is one of my favorite books in the entire world. And I am completely obsessed with her voice. I'm terrified to read Betty.

So I've only read this. I haven't read Betty yet because everyone is like, you're going to, like, be depressed for days. Yeah, it's going to rip you to shreds, my friend. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, okay, well, I've heard things, but, like, I do own it. I do have Betty. She's around here somewhere.

But I just am too nervous to read her just yet. I have to be, like, I have to win the lottery first or how something, like, exceptional happen in my life that cannot tear me down. But this one is loosely based on the unsolved murders of the Chilli Coffee 6. it is about twin sisters daffodil and arcade who are born one minute apart with their fiery red hair and thirst for an escape

they forge an unbreakable bond nurtured by both their grandmother's stories and their imaginations together they create a world where a patch of grass reveals an archaeologist dig the smoke emerging from the local paper mill becomes the dust rising from wild horses galloping on the ground

and an abandoned 1950s convertible transforms into a time machine that can take them anywhere. When the two sisters can't escape their generational chaos that grips their family, growing up in the shadow of the town, the sisters cling to one another. As an adult, Arcade wrestles with these memories of her life, just as local woman is discovered drowned in the river. Soon more bodies are found. While her friends disappear around her, Arcade is forced to reckon with the past,

while a killer circles ever closer. Arcades promised to keep herself and her sister safe, becomes increasingly desperate when they're powerful riptide on the savage side becomes more difficult to resist. So it's set in Ohio, and I just remember, like, this being, like, one of the most addictive but bleak stories that I have ever read, and her writing is just incredible, and I absolutely love her. And I think I had, like, three or four copies of this one.

Like, I just, like, if I see. If I see it somewhere, I'm like, oh, you're coming home with me, little angel baby. Like, I have to pick it up. So, yeah, on the subject side, it's just one of my favorites. That's going to, I'm not a lot to my TBR because Betty destroyed me. Yeah, I was reading about, because she's, her family is Cherokee. And so she traces her lineage. I think they're from, like, Arkansas and Oklahoma.

So she has a lot of information about that side of her family in regards to Betty. because Betty is sort of a little bit taken from her family stories. But I loved her writing. Like, she's an incredible writer. So I got to check that out. Oh, you will love it. You will love it. It is just so, so, so dark and, like, very emotional.

And, like, at times, like, you're so wrapped up in her characters that, like, something happens and you're like, oh, right, I forgot that. this is an actual like crime fiction story. Like a body shows up. A body shows up and you're like, oh shit, that's right. Like there's something, you know, sinister brewing around here, but you're so like wrapped up in the sisters that like you can't really like step away from their relationship, which I really, really liked because, again, very character driven.

I love it. So I have, and then she fell by Alicia Elliott. another Canadian author. So this is, I want to call this a literary thriller. It's also like a new mom thriller, which, you know, as a new mom when I was, I'm not anymore, but when I was, I wrote a thriller. So it's nice to be seen in that way about the hard side of it. So on the surface, Alice is exactly where she thinks she should be. be. She's just given birth to a beautiful baby girl Dawn, her charming husband, Steve,

a white academic whose area of study is conveniently her own Mohawk culture, is nothing but supportive. And they've moved into a new home in a posh Toronto neighborhood. But Alice could not feel like more of an imposter. She isn't connecting with her daughter, a struggle made even more difficult by the recent loss of her own mother, and every waking moment is spent hiding her despair from Steve and their ever-watchful neighbors, among whom she's the sole indigenous resident. Even when she does have a minute to herself, her perpetual self-doubt hinders the one vestige of her old life that she has left, her goal of writing a modern retelling of her creation story. Then, as if all of that wasn't enough, strange things start to happen. She finds herself

losing bits of time and hearing voices she can't explain, all while her neighbor's passive-aggressive the behavior begins to morph into something far more threatening. Though Steve assures her, this is all in her head. Alice cannot fight the feeling that something is very, very wrong. And that in her creation story lies the key to her and Dawn's survival. She just has to finish it before it's too late. So this is creepy. It's also a little bit funny.

The main character's voice is kind of wry and, like there's an awareness to it that's really good. But it's got trauma, sort of like false allyship. I mean, how funny is this idea of her husband being an expert, a white academic expert in her own culture? Wild. Like, that right there. I was like, oh, I'm going to read that. Yeah. Yeah.

So she just, I actually am blurbed on the back. I love this book. And I just think what she did is so cool. And like the, if you like kind of interesting structures, like there's, there's like text messages, you know, in it. And then she like titles the chapters in funny ways. Like, Auntie Bling can't solve everything. Like it's just, it's she just puts everything in it, you know? Like it's just so thoughtful.

And she's working on this creation story that's, you know, harkening back to her own culture. Meanwhile, trying to like live a life. and be a mom and I just, there's so many things in it. And I just felt like, you know, you read it books sometimes and you're like, they just left everything on the map. Like she just went there on every single front and just put it all in there. And that's sort of how I felt reading this book. It's like a little, it's like a little quirky. It's dark. And she just didn't pull any punches. And I just sort of, I love that in a thriller because there's a real space for it because there's a lot of big, big issues, especially indigenous writing.

yeah so I I really loved it and also the cover this is the hard back it's beautiful yeah I think the Canadian version might even have the different one I have an arc of that too it's really pretty here yeah oh yeah I think that um is it is it creepy I remember there's one that's almost like a I said a monster um yeah I see this they did a couple different it's like trees around her face yeah like trees around the face it looks really different than the American cover. Oh, yeah.

Mine's the American cover. That's the creepier looking. I need to... Yeah. I need to dive into this. Yeah, that sounds cool. Yeah. And as you mentioned earlier,

if you want a story about a new mother, I just want to let everybody know that this is also available. Little voices. Oh. My debut, baby. For the listeners, he's holding up little voices.

And also, if you love that then you can read for the best he has all of them he's prepared I told you I have my favorite show I have my favorite show right here that means a lot I was just thinking about that crazy Jules character from For the Best

the other day she's such a trainer that's so fun thank you know you were like the you were like the definition of Kate and I talk often about how you will read, you know, the synopsis of the back of a book. And you're like, oh, like, I think I know where the story is like going or like I think I know what this is about. But like, you were like the definition for me of like when I think I know what a story is going to be about. And then like it just like going in like so many different directions that I like was not prepared for it. So that's something that I always like, well, you're like, that's my girl. I was I was raised on soap operas. I watched days of my lives. And I feel like I like a. bonkers story. Yes.

I like that as part of the backstory, the soap operas. But like I just like never really know what's like going to happen in your books and they go in like so many different directions that like it's such an adventure. And like one thing I can say is like not only is you're writing fantastic and your plots are like crisp to a tea, but you also like really deliver an amazing plot that will keep somebody addicted from cover to cover. so that's something that I always appreciate you well that means a ton when I go back to my edits after this I'm going to feel so good I'm going to be like I will be like your hotline bling like when you

need like a little pep talk yeah seriously I know I it's crazy it's writing and putting yourself out there anyway you know a podcast episode anything if there's such a vulnerability to it and so I do like deeply appreciate that because I'm right in the thick of it but it's fun I'm excited to share the next one with you guys I've I missed Sid it's been fun to sort of um you know visit her it's only three months after Blood Sisters close it's right after nice god I'm excited I'm still pregnant yeah wow it'll be fun I know it will be I haven't time I haven't I haven't seen this one on your on your TBR or I don't know if I couldn't see it very well in your stack of books, but have you heard of Benco? I've heard of it.

I have not, that author has escaped me. I meet everyone. It's witchy. I mean, hello, indigenous witchy. That's like all the things. Have you had a chance to read it or is it on your TV? I haven't. I really want to read it.

And it came out February. And I think it was like one of those things. things where life kind of just like took over. But I love that the title is Coven, basically. And it says that there's a cantankerous grandmother named Stella. So like any sassy grandmother in a book about witches, I feel like I have to read this. But yeah, it deals with the magic of indigenous ancestors. And I don't know.

I'm very intrigued. it says that it deals with witches, magic, and a road trip across America. Wow. I mean, sold. Absolutely. Yeah, I really want to check that one out. I might even, I might audiobook that. That sounds kind of fun.

I wonder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. You're making me like broadened my horizons. So pretty too. With, um, supernatural and.

I know. Action. Get a little spooky. Yeah. I just read, um, return to midnight by Emma Duce. And, um, I've had, I finished it Sunday, I think. And I had a nightmare Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. Oh, no.

I've woken up at, um, between two and three in the morning for three nights straight. Um, like, believing that somebody's, like, murdering me in my sleeve. like convinced that there's like somebody standing over me or like I hear somebody walking in my house very strange very strange he owes you some hours of sleep she like that's an author doing their job my goodness yeah yeah yeah she like terrified the hell out of me and then like the weird thing is is like I think it was it was last night I woke up around like two or three and like thought like I was like convinced that there was someone in my house and that like I was just not going to be at work the next day. And then like when I woke up this morning, I looked on like

Twitter and somebody was like, why are all my friends telling me that everybody woke up between two and three in the morning last night? And I was like, did they all read Emma? I don't know. So yeah. Yeah, that twist at the end is one of the creepiest to me. Anytime I'm speaking vaguely, but anytime that is the solution, I'm creeped out for days. I talked to her, I talked to her briefly because I obviously, like, tagged her in a bunch of shit. And I was like, I'm sorry that I'm just, like, blowing up your Instagram and your DMs right now. But, like, I just, you know, and I told her it reminds me of, like, a combination of so many, like, horror movies that I enjoy. But it also, like, there are so many elements in it that remind me of the case of those Idaho students that were murdered a couple years ago.

And she was like, so the weird thing is, is that I wrote that. this, you know, like, I came up with this story in 2021 and I sold it in 2023. So, like, anything that is, like, correlated or, like, you think could connect or is, like, based off, it's, like, it's, like, pure coincidental. And there's, like, so much in it that I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.

That's wild. It's terrifying from cover to cover. Like, just, like, unsettling. Um, isn't Ashley Winstead's new book loosely inspired by the Idaho? murders too? I know that like it sounds like it could be but I don't. I mean it's about college students that were murdered in Idaho

and how like these internet slews take over everything. I don't know if she's like came out and said it but like I was like I read it and I was like wow this is going to be very and from what everyone has told me that's already read it they said it's like extremely dark and unhinged. Yeah. a lot about that is what I'm seeing to you.

I just don't want to ever be in the position where anybody connected to that case is in because I don't want to lose somebody in that sense. But I also just think of all of these people that like were living their lives that like the internet completely took over for like months and months and like accused them of being a murderer. And like turns out they like, you know, like a guy like is walking them to their food truck because like he has like two women that he's friends with that are drunk. And he's like, I'm going to walk them to the food truck so, like, I can be like, you know, a good guy and make sure nothing happens. And then the next thing you know, the internet is, like, accusing him months and months of being a murderer. So, yeah, that's the downside of social media people.

Yeah. The toxicity of, like, armchair detectives is something that I find really fascinating in crime fiction right now because it's so, like, apparent everywhere. Mm-hmm. Like, rabbit hole. Yeah. Rabbit hole by Kate Brody. Mm-hmm. let me know when you need to sob.

Yeah. Let me know when you need to sob. I threw it. I like finish it and I was like sobbing. Like my mom found me and she was like, what happened? Like is everybody okay? And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not okay.

It's like a very emotional reaction to a buck. But yeah, rabbit hole me me hysterically cry. Yeah. There's a lot of authors that owe you some emotional healing. That's what like sticks with me. That's what like sticks with me. I just remember, I think it was like, after I read bright young women, I don't think I picked up anything for like three weeks.

And I kept texting Kate and I was like, I don't know how I'm ever going to record a podcast with you ever again because like I don't know if I'm ever going to read again after this. I'm done reading. I'm just emotionally traumatized. Yeah. Wow. I think you guys added a ton to everybody's TVRs. Definitely mine. Yeah. And I want to check out that. Yeah, I want to check out that huge stack that you posted as well.

And I'm just going to like zoom in with my old eyes. I'll try to make sure I do another good run. I didn't even mention just like Medina has Indian program. It's a sort of supernatural horror too. It's awesome. I think I mentioned it in the previous show when I was on. But his debut Sisters of a Lost Nation is also great. So there's two more to the TV. He's very, like, I bet he'll have another book out in 2035. Like he's, wow. And he was in the anthology collection as well.

Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Sisters of the Lost Nation is one I've been very curious about for a while. Yeah, it's really good. And this one is cool too. It's kind of a dual time. and it's like this uncle and then a main character kind of converges and there's some creepy both like a vampire-like character so familiar things but then indigenous too it's good yeah oh wow okay all right sold sold I'm gonna have to get more jobs right and more bookshelves you're really vulgar I know I know I know every time I go to like put one more. I'm like, I feel like it's like janko. I'm like, are the shell's going to come down on me this time or do I like survive another day? But so far they felt yes. There's your nightmare for tonight. The bookshel's topple. Yeah. Oh my God. No. No. That what a way to go. You know, like if I'm found the next morning like covered, you know, like one hand is like dramatically draped across my forehead holding

blood sisters and the other ones like up here holding bright young women. Don't move me. Just bury me like that. He died as he lived. Yes. Yes. Doing what he wanted. Well, I will, I'm going to share the post we keep talking about of Vanessa's surrounded by books when this episode comes out so everybody can go look at even more.

Not that you need more, but even more books for your TVR. Yeah. But yeah, thank you guys for coming on. Thanks for having me. It's so fun. It was very fun.