Bookwild - What If Your Parent was a Serial Killer? V.A. Vazquez's The Death Row Club

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

In this episode, Gare and I talk with V.A. Vazquez about her dark, twisty thriller The Death Row Club! Listen to hear all about: The deeply personal experience that inspired The Death Row Club. V.A. Vazquez shares how discovering that a beloved high school teacher was secretly a predator sparked the question: What would it be like to be the child of someone capable of horrific crimes?  Why writing this novel became an exploration of shame, identity, and inherited judgment. V.A. Vazquez discusses how growing up with two moms in a conservative Catholic school influenced the emotional core of the novel and the idea of being judged for your family rather than your own actions. The surprising publishing journey that intertwined with Ashley Winstead. Vazquez talks about moving to Scotland, writing her first novels while waiting for work authorization, landing in Pitch Wars, and how Ashley Winstead encouraged her to dream much bigger than she ever imagined. How real memoirs from the families of serial killers shaped the book. Instead of consuming true crime entertainment, Vazquez researched memoirs by children and spouses of serial killers to authentically portray grief, loyalty, denial, and trauma. Behind the scenes of building a thriller with an unforgettable cast. Everything from creating detailed outlines and character boards to debating book adaptations and dream casting.   Check Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackGet Bookwild MerchFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrianMacKenzie Green @missusa2mba 

This week, Gare and I got to talk with VA Vasquez about her debut thriller, The Death Row Club. It is so much fun. If you love serial killer thrillers the way Gare does, if you love big casts, if you love really voicey writing, you are going to love this. Here's a short synopsis. After her father is convicted as a serial killer, Nicola Fisher accepts an invitation to a secluded retreat for the adult children of murders, hoping to escape the fallout of her shattered life. but when one of the guests is found dead, the weekend becomes a deadly locked room mystery where everyone has a dark past

and any one of them could be the killer. This book asked some very interesting questions about what we inherit from our parents, what we should have to hold shame-wise because of our parents, and what it's like when someone that you really, really, really trusted and was a huge part of your life, turns out to be someone who can do really horrible things.

I can't believe this is her debut. We had so much fun. talking to her. So let's hear from VA Vasquez. Well, I am so excited. I'm here with Gare and VA Vazquez, and we get to talk about the death row club, which I mean, just such a fun concept. So we're excited that you're here. I am super excited to be here. I have been looking forward to this for weeks. Yay. Yeah. Me too. Me too. Well, I always want to know before we dive into the book. I'm always intrigued by like what people's writing journey was. So like did you always want to? Did you get an idea? And then you became a writer because of the idea. How did it happen for you?

No, I absolutely did not always want to be a writer. I like I guess like back in elementary and middle school, I would write but just like recreationally. I wrote some short stories. I sent them off to magazines. Some of them even like got published. But like never in a million years was I like, oh, this is a job that like I could do someday. And I wrote a lot of fan fiction. I wrote a lot of fan fiction, which I will never claim credit to in a million years underpin that. Nope. That's an anonymous endeavor. 100%. But like, yeah, I didn't start thinking about writing a book until I moved to Scotland and I was waiting for the paperwork to be completed to get my teaching credential and it was just like taking forever. And so like I was at home all day with nothing to do

like staring at a wall contemplating my existence. And my husband was like, hey, you like to write. Like, have you ever thought about writing a book? And I'm like, no, no, absolutely not. But I didn't have anything else to do. So I tried writing a book and I realized it was really, really, really hard. And yeah, at first I was like, I wanted to write something that maybe I could self-publish. And then I sent it to an open call for a digital first imprint. And they were like, hey, this isn't quite our brand, but we really like it. And we think you're really talented. Do you have anything else you could show us?

And I did not. And then I was like, maybe I could get a book published by a small indie press or something. And then, like, in a reckless moment of insanity, I applied to Pigs. And that year, that last year, it was harder to get into pitch wars, I think, than it was to get into Harvard statistically. So I'm like, absolutely no freaking way am I getting into this. And then Ashley Winstead sent me an email. And she was like, I love this book. We have a lot of work to do.

Are you up for it? I'm like, hell, yes, Ashley Winston, I am up for it. That's amazing. Yeah. And one of the first things that we did is we hopped on a Zoom together. And she's like, what are your dreams for your publishing career? And I'm like, oh, I don't know, maybe like a tiny digital first press, blah, blah. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You need to have bigger dreams for yourself. I don't want to hear any of that. And so, like, I really am where I am today because of Ashley. She convinced me to query my dream agent, Victoria Sanders, who, if you're a writer and you're out there and you ever have the opportunity to query Victoria Sanders, do it. She will change your life. She'll make all your wildest dreams come true. But the fact is I never would have had those dreams if it hadn't been for Ashley,

Winston, insisting that I had the right to have them. So thanks, Ashley. That is so powerful. I love people who like get to do that for other people. She's amazing. My writing big sister. I love her. I think that we are all where we're at because of Ashley. I was kind of thinking that too. I was like she was my first interview. I'm like, wow, she's the one that like really got me into like just reading different types of thrillers and like things that were like a little bit more prose heavy and like being like this fucking slaps so like she's a queen oh my 100% I like when people are like what's the book you wish you'd written like which one keeps you up at night being like why why um like the last housewife is that book 100% like

Damn, that's such a good book. Right here. I love that book so much. That is such a cool story. Oh, I love that one too. I always. Oh my God. It's like so like insanely accurate with like grief. But it is also like one of the more like terrifying and darker books that I've read where I was like having a hard time sleeping at night. because I'm like, did I lock every single door? Right. That's amazing. Like, I was so excited when she, and I was like, she texted me and she's like, I think you're really going to love this one, baby. And I'm like, you know me so well.

Oh, that's so cool. She gave me a little bit of tea on her next novel when I met her in Montreal. And she was like, this is like right up your alley. And like when she says that, like, I think you're really going to like this one, like, she's never wrong. Yeah. 100% she knows she knows people and she knows what they like yeah and she's always going to be like oh this is what it's about and then it's just going to like emotionally fuck you up for like cover to cover yes so is the death row club was that the pitch wars book no so i had um it is not so i had

i had a book before that um i actually i'm i'm kind of a baby writer um i had one fantasy it was like a Romanticy novel at a time when Romanticy was not selling and nobody wanted that. So I wrote that. It was horrible. I didn't worry it. I'm like, this is garbage. So that's what we call on my desktop somewhere in a file of shame.

But then I had this other book, watch me. And I still think it's a banger concept and hope it gets published someday. It is about a content creator who reenacts famous murders with hot boys she meets on Tinder. I love this. amazing. That's what I said and they're like, it's too much. I'm like, it's not too much. Readers right here at least. Oh my God. That's like my ultimate dream book to read.

Oh my gosh. Someday somebody will be like, yes, I agree. This is great. But like, so I wrote that one. It got me my agent. It didn't sell, obviously. But it didn't matter because while I was out on sub for that, I wrote the Death Broke Club and that book sold super fast. So yay. And hopefully Hopefully, someday I'll be able to bring Watch Me to the world. Yeah. I'm dying for this. It's kind of like giving like a little bit of like, just because like after reading the death row club, I know how you write and like how fucking wild your imagination is.

But like your characters come to life in like such an amazing way. Even like a smaller character. Like you just like see them. Yeah. So like I'm crossing my fingers that watch me comes out because that just sounds like, like I can already tell that that's an idea that you had right like that's not something that anybody else could really pull off yeah I need to put you in touch with my editor so you can tell her this exactly we will gush we will gush about the blur or like whatever the byline I can't

think of my words right now there's like two things about me one I will ride or die for somebody who like writes books that I love and two I will be the dead horse yes and it comes with balloons that always always has happens to me. I hear it has lots of the animation. So this is your sign to go watch on YouTube so you know what we mean. Yeah. Yeah, that is so cool. How did your like writing process develop? So do you plot or are you like following the vibes? So again, I'm, I'm still kind of a baby to this. So my writing process is still developing. For Watch Me and Death Row Club, I wrote like 20 to 30,000 word outlines like the outlines were a third the length of the book because i just like to know what i'm doing

um and like that was great but um recently uh an editor convinced me to for my next book coming out next year she's like um hey why don't you just write like character profiles for your leads and then like a bullet point list of like 40 things that could maybe happen and then just i don't try something like just write it and yeah like honestly It turned out, I think, pretty well. So I might have been officially converted to plantsing. We'll see. We'll see if it's six.

Yeah. I'm sure Ashley's always pushing the plotting. She's such a plotter. We are both Lisa Kron, story genius. Yes. I love those. Yeah. Our language.

Yes. Yeah. And I learn about it from Ashley. So again, this is the VA Vasquez as Ashley Winstead episode. they're like, Ashley, watch. Well, with the Death Row Club, it is such a fun concept, like from the get-go. It's so easy to explain to people. It's so intriguing.

Where did it come from for you? Or what was the initial idea? Sure. So, puppy. So, I don't know, here's kind of the dark and depressing section of the episode. So first of all, my parents are not serial killers. I just feel like I need to throw that out there in case you were worried. They are, they have not killed anyone.

But that I know of. I keep asking them. I'm like, just be honest, guys. I probably sell more books. I'm kidding. But yeah, I, back in high school, I had this English teacher that I was like super, super close with. He was the one who convinced me to send out a lot of writing to competitions. He led me to fall in love with literature. He was amazing, such an

inspiration to me. And then a few years after graduation, it was revealed that he was a predator, and he was arrested and convicted of multiple crimes. And I was like, totally excited by this. I did not see this coming. And like, I mean, this guy, like, inspired me to become an English teacher myself. Wow. So like I just, I had no idea. And like I had a really hard time like reconciling that information with like my memories of him. And it got me thinking like if I was so caught out by this revelation about my English teacher, what must it be like if the police come knocking at your door and they're like, hey, we need to arrest your parent. And I'm like, oh, that's worse. Yeah. That is wild.

Yeah. And it was like even like national and international news because of the sentencing, he was a dual citizen and they're like you can either do jail time in the U.S. or be exiled to Canada. And Canada was like, we don't want him. Wow. It was in the New York Times. It was on CNN like everything. Oh my God.

That is crazy. And the thing that it kind of, okay, I feel the need to now say. my parents, as far as I know, are not serial killers. However, what you just described also then, like, with an English teacher, I think the thing that's really scary is when you think that you can really trust someone and you think you have a really great relationship with them. And then when you find out something that devastating about them, it shakes your own confidence so much. Like, it is one of the scariest feelings I've ever had when I've had those moments with people I care about. And all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, my God, is the world even safe? And can I

judge people well? Can I pick safe people? So like, I was feeling it as I was reading it. And I'm assuming it's because you kind of experienced that then. Yeah, no, definitely. That is 100% like, one of the things I wanted to explore was like, yeah, you, you essentially, it shapes your confidence, like to the core. And you're like, can I make friends? Like, are my friends, like, trustworthy, normal people or is my like radar just totally off? Yes. It's so it's so freaky. And it's like that's why I mean,

I don't need to rant on this at large. But that that's why like so many people can get away with things like that because some of the people who are like that are so good at hiding it and like being two different people. And so it's like it's tempting to be like, oh, everyone is I'm missing something about everyone in my life. But like also some of these people are just good at it. absolutely 100% do you have any questions gear because currently bruce has questions so i might mute myself yeah no i can i can hop on here i'm just like so baffled already that we're like 10 minutes in and i'm like mind blown 10 minutes straight um well one i know that my radar is perfect when it comes to

women my radar is horrible when it comes to men so like i'm just still like boggled with this but i also like the thing that I love about this too is that like when I was reading it like I kind of put myself in that position where you're like okay like there's somebody I know like my confidence is shaken because they're a monster and it's like did I like was there something that I missed but like also like I think the thing that you did really really really well with this is when something like this happens you also are kind of like well they didn't do anything to me Right. Like initially, like you're always kind of like, they never showed me any red flags. They never like did anything horrible or said anything horrible to me. And then you kind of like question where you're like, oh my God, like am I part of the problem? Because I don't see this aspect of this person. So like your first initial thought is like, well, I didn't experience any of this. So like is it true? And I think you did that so well because like one of the scariest things could happen are very probably. prominent in thrillers are when the serial killer is your spouse or a parent.

Yeah. And like the way that you handled that, even as an adult who is like far removed from the situation, she still kind of battles that, right? And like that was the thing that I found, I found very interesting was like when people are saying horrible things about her father, when people are saying like horrible things about the crime. Like there's like you can almost see in your mind this character like fighting her tongue because she like kind of wants to stick up for him a little bit. Oh, totally. Like I can't imagine like having to shift from like I love my dad. I'm especially because

she grew up in like a single parent household. Like it's just been her and her dad for forever. She doesn't have like siblings or anything. It's just the two of them. And like to go from like yeah, my dad's my ride or die. He's my family. My only real family and everything. to like, my dad's a horrible person. I, like, mentally to make that shift, like, I can't even imagine. And she hasn't had a lot of time. Like, we get to see Nicola, like, I think, what, three months after her dad's arrest. So she's barely processed this.

Right. And then it's like, hey, you want to come hang out with some other kids with the same problem right now? In the woods. In the woods. But no cell phone. when he got taken away. I was so angry the way the community was treating her at the,

and I mean, it's like maybe five to 10% at the beginning that you get that. I was like texting Gar, I'm like, fuck these losers. Like, I am, I was so enraged in the first chapter because I was just like, you cannot hold the daughter accountable for the sins of her father. I was so angry that people had zero compassion for her. So you got me going early. Yeah. Like not a not a huge fan of of the small town and super glad, super, super glad that she gets to leave after

chapter three. Yeah. I was too. I live in a small town and I actually really enjoy it because I think like it's very like, I like my privacy and like I don't like to hear like everyone else's commotion when I'm trying to like sleep or read at night. So I like, yeah. I enjoy it.

But there's like something about like, like, suburbia disturbia that is like so interesting to me yes because like I always say this to Kate and like her ears are probably going to start bleeding at some point because I was like growing up your thrillers were always like the creepy janitor at the school the trucker like it was like somebody that you were like a little hesitant to be around and I love this like new way of having a serial killer be like the family man like it's always the guy that nobody expected and the way that you did that was like even like in the flashbacks when like i get like a little piece of his personality i'm like there's no way like yeah like he's just your friend's cool dad

who's like very chill like we'll let you take the car out extend your curfew a little bit and like that's the thing that's like most disturbing to me yeah it makes total sense that those girls would like get into his car and accept a ride you know like totally yeah yeah and no it's just his personality too like that's like the scary thing is like you don't really feel like he's like wearing a mask it's almost like this is his personality but then there's like like he looks at he looks at murdering somebody the same way like people are just like I just if I just have this one cigarette, I'll feel better. Right. You know, if I have like one drink, I'll feel better. Like, you don't even see, like, the real monster in him. You have to hear about it through his crimes. So, like, the way that you

wrote this serial killer was, like, so insanely realistic that I was like, she's got to know at least, like, one serial killer. Like, my mom. I could. I was like, I was like, this retreat could be real. And, like, you just like kind of like snuck your way in and was like oh yeah my dad's a killer and then like did the research for your novel because um it reminded me of like one of my favorite movies is the movie the summer of 84 and it's like these like four teenage boys and they like suspect that this like upstanding cop who's like the cool neighbor for everybody is the one that's a serial killer and like nobody will believe them and then the community starts to like treat them like shit just for thinking that it could be him. So like I agree with Kate. I read this so early,

like as soon as it came in the mail that like I had no one to talk to because I was like the way that these people are treating her is like insane to me. And usually like I respect the way that you write emotions on page. So like you can continue to call yourself a baby writer. But to me like you're a pro already because with stories like this, you usually see it where someone's like, this is how they're treating me and you're like, oh, I'm sad. Like, that's really sad. I feel like sad for the character.

But like with her, I was like, I would start backing my car out of the driveway and just fucking running people over. Like, if she turned into a serial killer and started killing all of these bitches that were being mean to her, I would be like, okay, so this is like a good for her moment. Like, this is just like a good for her book. Because like the way that you like had like her being emotional, dealing with her dad and like the sadness of that.

But then the anger with how the community was treating her, I thought was really, really well done and very interesting. Thank you so much. Emotions are literally the hardest thing for me to write. I feel like every single time I go to write a book, I'm just like, I don't know how to do feelings. So that literally you just made my entire month. Like it's done.

It's complete. Your give it. Yeah. Well, I think that the way that you did it was like she's not like whining and crying on the page or being like, I'm so angry. Like, you're just like seeing her kind of shut down and like shut off her emotions and not

talk to anyone about them, which is like the natural thing to do when your father's a serial killer and like the whole community is like, well, you had something new with it too. Like, and like treating her like shit. So like I think it was like exceptionally done emotionally because I felt like. I agree. The sadness

and like the despair but then like also like that like white hot anger. That like Yes. Yeah, I was raging in the first like. I was so angry so many times, which isn't uncommon for me that he was elevated. Thank you. I adore your rage.

Thank you. Yeah. The rage in me sees the rage in you. I can always agree on rage. Pretty much. Even if we couldn't agree on anything else, we can always agree on rage. Yes. Um, did you, how do I say this?

Do you like watch or like absorb a lot of true crime? So no, actually. I, I watch almost no true crime. I don't watch or listen to it at all. Um, like the only, I am really interested in like true crime podcasts. And this is kind of, um, why there is a true crime anything in this book is I am really interest in, like, podcasts that solve the murder that they came to, like, they're like, we're going to look into a 20-year-old cold case and they show up in town and they, like, go rooting

through everyone's dirty laundry and they're like, oh, we solved it. And then I'm like, oh, cool. And then, like, do they just leave? They just, like, get up and go. And everybody else is like, there's, like, been a nuclear explosion in their town. Nobody under, they're like, oh, my God. Dan, the mailman, who would have thought? And, like, meanwhile, this person is just, like, skedaddled out. And like that's something that interested me. And I tried to capture that with Greer, what it must be like to just like blow up everybody's life. And then just like, fuck it off, you know. Like, bye.

Oh my God. Gora is like the baddest bitch. I love her so much. It's amazing. I love it. I was like, you should write like characters that either you want to be or you want to date. And I'm like, Greer is 100% both. Like, I just like, Lord, let that love find me, please.

Yes. 100%. Yeah. totally agree. I want to be as cool and badass as Greer. I love her. I am obsessed with her. But the reason I ask is because I do listen to and watch a lot of, like, a ton of true crime. And like, the way that you wrote how the, like, worlds and, like, the true crime community and people close to, I guess, like, a serial killer was so well done. Because, like, It wasn't just like, oh, my dad's a serial killer. Like, he murdered, like, two people or three people or whatever. And then, like, now I'm here, right?

Like, you had all of these backstories that were, like, so convincing. Like, I listened to and read a lot of true crime. And, like, I was like, these could be real cases. And that is the only thing that I did do. I did read every memoir written by a wife's, like, child friend of a serial killer. So that I did. That makes sense. Yeah, a lot of it, like, my faves were, like, Carrie Rossin's, a serial killer's daughter.

It's about BTK. And, like, he just approaches her dad with such, like, coignancy and, like, compassion, but also resentment. And she also is really good to inserting humor, which I really appreciated. Because, like, that's a terrible situation. Phantom Prince by Elizabeth Kendall about Ted Bundy. her daughter Molly wrote the afterward and they just have like completely different memories of time with Ted Bundy and I really

I love that idea of like memories what can you trust and like who's actually telling the truth is it just the truth as they remember it and then raised by serial killer by April Velasco she had to she was the one who actually turned her dad into the cops which is something some of the characters have to grapple with but but fun fact

the editor of raised by a serial killer is also the editor of the death row club so she has done both fiction and nonfiction about the adult children of serial killers so cool I love that so that is the whole thing that I did do that's great research I would explain the emotional part that we were kind of talking about like you like really did we get to hear how people different people process it I just thought it was like serial killers are like my favorite thrillers trope and like the entire world. So like when I was like, oh my God, this book is about like a group of serial killer

children. Like there's all these like backstories and I was just like this is heavenly. And like I don't know what it is that like draws me to that. Like I think that like it's very interesting how like they can have their own like specific with like who they target and how they're caught and like I just find it very fascinating. But sometimes I'm like really picky and I can be like a little bitch about it. You know like I'm like, like there's no like explanation of this and like the fact that you had all of these like backstories built with like every parent and every serial killer and like what they like went

after and why they killed and how they like specifically knew it was terrifying to me um it's also really funny because in the first draft i was like i'm not going to say anything about their parents because I just want to focus on like the victims of whatever. And Ash is like, girl, what the fuck are you doing? No, no. You need to drop like at least like 50% of that Lauren. And I'm like, okay. I get it.

I get the like desire to focus on the victims. But you do have to know what happened to them to like build out their victimhood. That was a bad instinct. Bad, bad. It's okay. I think it was coming from probably. a noble place and then it was like no we need to know yeah well the other scary thing we've kind of touched on it a little bit is that feeling of like are you some of it's like nature versus

nurture is some of the really scary part of this are you defined by your family because like in general people will want to be like yeah like look I inherit things for my family and then when you don't like your family, you're like, wait. So how did you, like, balance that part? How did you write that part? Like, did you freak out of her? This is going to sound like completely unrelated, but I promise it's not. So, like, growing up, I went to Catholic school, which was not a good fit for Victoria, especially because my mom was gay. She was married to another woman. And my classmates were not nice about that. I was bullied, like, relentlessly throughout school.

Partially due to the fact that, like, I wasn't going to, like, budge an inch. I was, it was the 90s. So this was a time when, like, this was not a popular stance to have. But I was mainstream, like, at all. Yeah. And I was very, very outspoken, like, at the front of every Pride parade. I love that for you, though. I really do.

I was like the most vocal, like, 10-year-old, 10-year-old, LGBTI-Q-I-plus advocate. But they were super mean to me. And it was like, it had a huge impact on me growing up, but also, like, as an adult. And this idea that, like, you could be, like, tormented for not anything that you did, but just like the family that you come from. And like, man, it was wild. Like a kid, I remember a kid coming up to me and being like, did you know your parents are going to hell?

Because that's like a super normal thing for like a kid to say for another kid. And so like, I mean, I feel like obviously like having gay parents is super different from having serial killer parents. Yes. but like reactions yeah but i do feel like i understood to some extent what nicola was going through well i mean it's i will tamper my religious trauma because we don't need an hour of it but someone telling you they're going to go to hell no matter how outspoken no matter how tough you were already for like a kid there's like such a terrifying reaction from someone so i and i and i think that's I mean, people are telling serial killers kids the same thing.

So I don't think it's a stretch. I think that makes sense. And it probably is why the rage was so clear there. Because everything you're saying, I'm like, oh, this is like coming from such a real place. Like that's why one chapter in, I'm texting here. And I'm like, I'm so angry. So, yeah, I think that's, I mean, it's not cool that it happened to you. but it's cool when you can like alchemize something into something else basically yeah but also look

where you are and look where half of those people are exactly exactly because right now the funny thing is is if any of them idiots read this book they're all the people that would probably treat you better if your mother was a serial killer than if she were gay yeah and that's accurate yes and that's like the time that we live in we're like there are some people that like like would be like, oh, like, I'm so sorry. And then there are other people that are like, your mom's going to hell. I mean, we had, this is like the biggest cliche if you grew up in Christian, it just grew up in church in like 90s, 2000s. Our choir director came out as gay and was like shunned from the church,

but his son and wife were allowed to stick around. And we all just acted like that was totally okay that like that decision was made. And I still get angry sometimes when I think, about it. What an asshole son too. Oh, I know. I know. You know that thing. Well, his son was young. Like when it happened, he was like six. So mom still like, I was an asshole at six o'clock and I, or six years old. I had a back on. Six o'clock. Six o'clock. Six a.m. to six p.m. I'm an asshole. Um, no. Fuck that. That's like that thing where they're like, don't sit at tables that your neighbors aren't welcome and then they like do it. Give me a fucking break. Yeah. Um, yep. Um, I'm so proud of you for being a ride or die for the LGBTQIA plus community at such a young age.

And then like also turning that rage into one of the best fucking books that I've ever read this year. Yes. And also I just want to remind you that like all of those kids that told you your mom was going to hell like are probably doing a lot worse things now. And my mom, this book was dedicated to my mom. So she's doing great too. your mom is an icon in this household. They'll tell you why. Your mom's an icon.

And that little boy is probably on Grindr in the church parking lot. Literally, we're sitting outside a Republican National Convention. Oh, boy. That is so interesting. I am like obsessed with you. I know. I, like, it is so interesting how you, like, the people, people that were like turning these kids lives into health is so like parallel to the people

that are like extremely religious that like will shun you over yeah things like that that is so interesting to me and it makes like a lot of sense now yeah and they it's really prominent in church to do the like you can't you can't have friends below you because it's easier for them to pull you down than for you to bring them up to your level and that is that's really toxic and very uh it can get into anything like shame shame related stuff where like jesus i mean here we go jesus was hanging out with hookers and homeless people and tax collectors like he was by this metaphor that they love to use he was reaching down and we all still love him so yeah it's so it's so terrible that people are like that.

But at least we have a ragey book that can be very cathartic for anyone who is vibed with what we're talking about here. But kind of with all of that, the big, a lot of Nicola's like emotional character arc is like she's still grieving. Like you pointed out, it's been like three months. She's getting shamed by like the place she was very comfortable and happy. like she liked her job for the most part um and then there's all this like public scrutiny and all the media attention so she's like kind of how she's trying to accept who her dad is figure out what

that means to her and everyone is interesting in detail of her life so what was it like writing her going through all of that while you also have these like exciting plot points happening too i mean that's why like i said writing emotion is like the hardest thing in the world for me. And like, this is the book where I'm like, I'm going to teach myself how to do characters and character arc. So like, hopefully, hopefully that worked. But like, yeah, I, it was a lot of like, I don't know, I'm someone who feels everything like super, super, super, super deeply. So I'm always trying to like distance myself from my emotions just for my own like everyday sanity. So a lot of it, I like, I feel like this is like the reason why like I could never be an actor.

right because I'm like let's go back to the most painful moment of your life now try and put it into words how did it feel to be like totally messed up and like sobbing into your bed at like three in the morning unable to sleep for like a week you know and like that's all and then they're like and cut go over there and you're like yeah yeah and about two hours you have to film the happiest moment of your yes it's your wedding come home to you be happy and you're just like yeah i can't even i have no idea how accurate do it i have so much respect for them like as a writer like i don't know i do a scene that like messes me up and i'm like i'm done i'm gonna go some ice cream and cry do you think it's when you say it's hard for you to write

because like gar and i are obviously shocked by that because we felt so many emotions but when you say that part is hard is it more like when you start writing your like pinchant or something is to go towards just like getting the structure and the things happening and maybe like you know their feelings but you're not writing them. So my background, I'm a teacher, but I also produced theater in New York City for a whole bunch of years. And like, so most of my like reading experience up until my husband was like, why don't you write a book? Most of my reading experience was scripts, right? And I also was like a reader for film studios and stuff like that. And like, so you don't get a ton of emotion in scripts.

You get dialogue and you get setting description. And so like when it comes to like writing someone's emotions, I'm like, oh, that's, that's for an actor. That's their dog. But like, there is no actor except in the audiobooks. So it's up to me. I have to do it. And it's just something that like I'm getting better at, but it's something that initially was

kind of unfamiliar to me. right it i am having the wildest synchronicities because literally and it's an episode that's going to come out the same day as yours because his book comes out there's a book called the great game it's close enough to me but i'm not going to reach for it arvin ethan david and as this is airing it's out it's called the great game and it's historical fiction mystery but it's adjacent to sherlock holmes um so it is so much fun it is a lot of fun but he said the same thing and i think that's why i actually ended up asking you the question that way. He's only written scripts. And then he did a like a pitch. And someone was like, I think this is a novel. You should try writing a novel. And so then he was turning it into a novel.

And he was like, I wrote this scene and I loved it. Like they were at lunch. They were having all this great banter. And like, I was so proud of it. I was like, this is one of the best scenes that I've written. And he sent it to his editor. And she's like, what are they doing? What are they feeling after that person says that to them? And he's like, well, the actors, well, and she's like, no, no, the actors can't do it for you in this case. So it's so fascinating how the mediums are all so different. And then then there are brave souls who cross mediums and figure both out. Yeah, it is definitely a rude awakening when you realize that there isn't like some incredibly genius, brilliant actor who's going to be like, no, I see exactly what you're

doing. I'll bring it to life with my awesomeness. And I'm like, oh, people are here like. like oh i have to use my words damn it writer seemed to use words why I don't know I thought it was like so I would have never guessed that you had a hard time writing emotion because I wouldn't yeah

there are there's also another character and I'm not going to leave like even talk about this other character that I'm thinking because like this was a surprise to me when I was reading it so I don't want to be a spoiler for anybody but you have like two characters that I think are like really going through it like

hardcore in different like we'll say like POVs and I did not think that you had a hard time writing emotion because then there are some characters who are like a little bit more like stoic and like brave face because of like what they've gone through in the past being afraid of like opening up, but, like, you can see their anger through, like, slamming of, like, covered doors or stomping off somewhere. And it's, like, I don't know. I've just dealt with so many, like, man children that, like, there are some that, like, oh, I can tell he's pissed because he's, like,

really using his heels when he walks through the kitchen or, like. Using his heels. The way that, like, you're slamming that ice into the cup. is like not your typical like every day. So like the way that you wrote that, I just think that like you don't have to worry about that in the future. Yeah. Seriously,

you made my month, made my whole month. Yeah. And it might be one of those things where like because you know you have to focus on it, that might just be why you're good at it. You know what I mean? Like the version we're reading is good because you're like, okay,

I need to like really make these emotions real. Yeah. yeah yeah but i just we're in like a time we're like yeah yeah but we're also like in a time where like i think more than ever a lot of people are like not good at opening up emotionally yeah and like sometimes like you just have to like pick up on other clues but like a lot of readers will put themselves in somebody's shoes right and be like well how would i think because like at the end of the day like we're all kind of we're all kind of we're all a little bit selfish when we read right like oh yeah you put yourself in that character shoes and you're like well how i'm feeling is probably

how they're feeling. So like, and then you just move on to the next page. So like, yeah, I think that a lot of it is also like situational, which is very interesting because like, my poor girl, Nicole out like went through. She is that example of like, you have to beat your characters up. I was like thinking because I think that story or Lisa Cron's. I think that's hers. It's that or save the cat that's like you have to like torture your characters even though you love them. Yeah. I'm not a very emotional. person. I probably haven't cried in like two years, but like I will tell you right now, like, I would not have been able to be like my dad was just arrested for like being a serial killer

and now this like nosy little bit just trying to like get into like a true crime series. And now I have to go to this place and they want me to open up about how I feel about my dad being a serial killer while they're like also like not wanting to open up to me because I'm like the new kid. Right. Like I'm a new kid on the block. But like we're all here because our parents are serial killer. that that alone like just proves that like you know what you're doing with emotion because you're putting a character in like a situation like that and like nobody would go into that just being like oh like just another day in life right nobody's like getting a full night's rest before they're going to that retreat I love to know the person who is because my

God. Right. Like that is a strong data blocker. Yeah. That is a strong ass beta blocker. I was even anxious. I was like, oh my God, like I was like turning my air conditioning up. I also ate a lot of ice cream and I was reading this book. So it must be like something with that. Nice and cooling. I get that. I was stressed. Yeah. Well, kind of getting to one of my questions because when they get to the retreat, we have a full cast of, a really full cast of characters that we kind of haven't really talked about. mostly talked about Nicola and a little bit about career. But when there are larger cast like that, I always wonder, like, how did you know when you had everyone that you needed? Like, did you, like, have a number and you wrote into that number? Basically, how did you build that big cast?

Yeah. So, um, so basically one, one of the ways that I built them out was actually, going back to, so like I said, my English teacher's arrest was this national and international news. And like, I would go down to the comment section and I would scan through it. And I would look for like any comments by people like me who actually knew this guy. I'm like, I want to see how people are responding to this. And I noticed that there were like three kind of buckets that they fell into. Like the first group were people who are like, I knew it. I knew it all along. All the clues were there. if you didn't know it, were you even like there? Were you even awake? And that's kind of like where Ross falls, who's like, you know, I have known since I was six. It was so obvious. You know, and like, yeah. And then there was a group of people who really wanted like more information. They were like,

here's my email address. Like posing their email address on like the New York. Oh, wow. Me. They're like, has the school said anything? Send me the pressure. They do. They do. I just want to know. Does anyone know? Oh, my gosh. I kind of saw that as more like the heavy image in people who like through their professions are trying to like better understand people like their dads and trying to help their victims

and trying to like, you know, kind of understand what happened here. And then they were few, but there was a group of people who were really trying to defend his actions. And they're like, you don't know him. He's not a bad person. And I'm like quoting this is an actual comment someone left. He's not a bad person. He's a good person.

who made a mistake. And I'm like, made a mistake? Like, are you for real? And like, it was, like, what he did was indefensible. But they were really trying to defend him. And those, of course, were the people who were the most interesting to me because what the, are you talking about? And that is Nicola and Greer and Zach, who are like, my three favorite characters,

of course. But, like, and they all, they all are in somewhere or another defend. their parents' actions for different reasons. And, you know, I just, so yeah, everybody kind of gets lumped into pockets. That makes a lot of sense. And such a crush on Zach. I also got it.

I had such a question on Zach. I was like, oh, my God. The little canter was so cute. I was like, oh. Such a sweet key. I mean, he is. We had a, we had a, we had a. celebratory cocktail party where we had little umbrellas and little swords and drinks. And I'm like,

yeah, little umbrella is going to get stabbed with a little sword. I think he's just so cute. I thought he was going to say, when he was like, you know the one thing they all have in common, I thought he was just leading her to be like, they kill people. Like, I thought he was going to literally say something like that. And so then when it was like swords, I was like, wait, what? What's their favorite band? It's America. I love those little details, though. I actually made a little, like, I made a little is your parent a serial killer quiz because I have my book launch coming up on Monday and I'm doing a bunch of events, including an event with Ashley. But like, one of the things I'm doing for some of the events is like, let's all take the is your parent a serial killer quiz together so we can find out if any of you in the room have a serial killer parent.

And like there's a bonus question at the end, which is like what America song is your parents favorite? Because obviously they are a serial killer. And like, you know, muskra at love, like cult leader. Absolute cult leader. Beyond the lookout for any properties, they have bought like a compound, if you will. Like last unicorn family annihilator run because you endanger girl, you know. Well, then did you write it? Did you write it in the order that we read it?

Because there's a couple different timeline things, or did you, like, establish certain stories and then figure out how to alternate the chapters? Yeah, no. Like, God bless people who can write out of order. I am not that girl. That girl is not. It sounds intimidating to me. Yeah, I like, I can't keep like an emotional through line going like that. Yeah.

So I had to write everything in order, including like the interstitial characters because, like, I just needed to know where they would fit. And like, well, we haven't been in that character for a while. Like, when does she pop in? You know? Yeah. That makes sense. That was such a wild timeline, too. Like, I like having like the best emotional, like PTSD over like, like, an anxious I was over this book.

but I want to know when it came to your cast of characters like when you're building them can you like visually like see them because you're like the best at this in the entire world I can I'm super I super I really I please tell me you that you're going to cast this because I really want to see your cast for this so so so so I already did I already dead I have I will even show you your poster if you want but like that's the death row club it's the little cabin with the blood splatter I love that I'm so excited

I can't wait to see the cast I love like seriously I love when I see Instagram and I see that you post it I'm just like you guys know yeah we can totally discuss I mean by the time this is out it'll be posted I'm sure but yeah so like no for the most part for the most part I genuinely

I genuinely do not like I trying to think so usually actually that's kind of a lie um i usually go on like m fa websites for like acting schools and i'll like pull like random actor and i'll use that kind of because like otherwise you end up like losing like how long was her hair what color were her eyes but i don't like really think of anybody who is like well known or anything like that it's just yeah but you kind of have a visual then that you're kind of going back to because I know some people are like I really don't see much about the character and you're like okay and sometimes it works like it's not even that

descriptive of a book but yeah it's interesting the reason I was like very interested is because I felt like this was one of the easiest books for me to cast like I let me see I have my little list right here Nicola was the hardest yeah but I think I nailed that amazing but I think I nailed that And then, who was my other one that I had a hard time with? Imogen. Imogen. But I also think I nailed Imogen. But.

Can I ask, did you cast Tom Woods? Yeah. Of course I did. Amazing. I just really want to see who you cast his Tom Woods. He's the only one where I'm like, I didn't have an actor in mind. But like, she describes his, I don't know how much I left in of her describing his eyebrows. I like talk about his in like the first draft I talked about his eyebrows like every four seconds.

And those were definitely Zachary Quinto's eyebrows. Um, but that was it. It was just the just the eyebrows had a reference. That was it. But I think I've got all those references. So somebody that I picked actually could be Zach Quinto's like father. Amazing.

Um, which I would totally tell you if you want me to. No, save it. Save it. Because I want to be surprised. Um, But this was one of the easiest ones. Like the minute, like every character came on page except for Nicole and Imogen.

I was like, oh my God. Like I can like immediately picture. Like Greer was the easiest person I've ever cast in a book in my entire life. But I was wondering if you pictured them because like the way that they're written and like their manualisms and like the way that you describe them was not like, oh, like here's Greer. She's five foot four and has like long black hair. a leather jacket. And like, like, it was just like, here she is. Like, she pulls her jacket on. She's kind of like, you can tell she's like a little edgy, like a little badass.

But like the way that you described them was like, you know what they look like. We just have to like pick up on it. So like that's why I'm very like interested because I feel like when I read books, especially like thrillers. Like sometimes it's like, oh, like here's like Natasha. And it's like, okay, is she a teenager? Is she like 70? Is she like what? But like you're characters just like really popped out and I agree I was even more interested in that when you were discussing how like earlier like you got the advice to like draw like the bullet points and everything for like your cast of characters because I've seen this done with other authors before and it's almost like like a board where they have them but they have like a picture of somebody like either like

a celebrity or something so so when I moved into my apartment the first thing that I had someone come in and do was just cover one like little like um like feature wall just with court board it's just yeah court board the whole wall and i do i do cut out like those little mfa photos and i do keep those up there because i'm like you need to remember because i don't want to be that person who's like ross's brunette pixie cut and it's like that ain't it that ain't it no like i would do that and leave that to a poor line editor to solve if I didn't have photos up there. I've had authors actually reach out to me and be like, hey, like, I'm trying to like, I'm writing a book and like this character's like about 45 and he's like handsome but not

like super hot and like whatever. Like who do you think, like who are you thinking? And like I'll tell them. So like it helps with like their mood board. So I'm totally available if you ever need like help with your future characters. Oh my God. I will completely hit you up and be like, care who is it? Pinterest. Pinterest is like so wild to me. Like you can literally type in like an actor's name and like aesthetic and not get like a picture of the actor but like somebody who looks like similar.

So like that's cool. Pinterest is always like a game changer. I need to try that. I need to try that. It's exciting. Well, since I brought it up. How do you feel about like book adaptations? Like are you like super protective of this?

like the sense that like you never want it adapted or you like do what you want to give me money no pop the pop pop the popcorn i want this on screen i am the opposite of precious with anything like i don't know i i have met people where like like they turned my book into something and it was terrible and i'm like no i'm all for it like whatever you want to do with it like because and i think that's maybe coming from like theater um like i'm sure that like i have produced plays where the playwright is like this is not at all what I intended. And like, that's fine. But like you wrote the script and then you have to give that up to other artists to make

something with, right? Like, like someone making something out of a book does not like negate the existence of the book, right? Like that's still there. You still have that. And I would be really interested to see what like other artists, how they interpret like myself. Yes.

Ever that happened. And it's so weird with audiences. Right? Like, tell me lies is so different. Like, the show is so different from the book. Yeah. Everybody loves the show, right? And then, like, there are some that, like, people are like,

this is like, I already know what's going to happen because I read the book where it's, like, really close. And then, like, the one that I, people hated the adaptation of the girl on the train. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, you guys, this is like literally play by play. I know. Like it is so, the only difference is it takes place in like, I think like outside of New York City instead of like, right. But I was like, this is literally like every platform is being that. And I fucking love that movie too.

And I ride or die for that. That is like one of my comfort movies. I would actually really like it if someone was like, I wouldn't really like if someone just wanted to like gang the concept. Like we're just taking like the main idea and then wanted to make something totally new. I think that would be absolutely awkward. And you still get paid for it. No, it has to be your book. This is so cinematic.

Like, this is like meant to be on the screen. Like, I could picture. I mean, it would even work as a limited series, in my opinion, like four to six episodes. Mm-hmm. Guys, from your lips to producers' ears. Yeah. Somebody, please hear this. I, like, have so many.

Somebody told me this and like, I don't know, like, why, but I used to put, like, the studio when I did like the little poster and they were like I can't share it because it has like the author couldn't share my poster because it had like Blumhouse or something on it. Oh yeah. I love that though. I would love to know like what studio would produce whatever because like I feel like there are like eight 24 books that like there are neon books. There are Blumhouse books and I like this is Blumhouse for me. Yes or neon. Yeah like I definitely got like Blumhouse vibes because because the recent Halloween movies were like very

like spooky without being like corny, right? Like it was like just like kind of like chilly but it was like a typical like cold fall night without being like overly like here's some fog and like creepy like weird shit like that that's like not always happening on Halloween. So like I got that vibe with the woods

but I also kind of got like maximum pleasure guaranteed. Have you watched that? No. Oh my gosh. There's like some freaking amazing cinematography in that and I was like this would fit this so well. I love that so much. I feel like I've been watching Blumhouse since like they since like Jason Blum made that studio.

I love it because like they're great. They're scary. They're like a little bit extra and I'm all there for that. Yeah. I completely agree. This needs to be adapted. Like it would. Your first book idea made me take a maximum pleasure guaranteed.

I was like, holy shit. it's not the same thing that's a 24 for me yeah but it's adjacent it is adjacent to maximum pleasure guaranteed it's like american cycle meets like kill for love yeah yes yeah well now i know i'm going to be watching i know i think the finale air is next week i'm pretty sure so i just started it last night we've been watching it weekly and it's so good apple tv yeah apple tv it's so good it's so good it's so good Apple TV has been kind of taken over for me. So like, I'm hoping that we can manifest this because like Apple TV would be such a good home for the death row club. It would be.

From like maximum pleasure guaranteed Kate here. Mm-hmm. Widows Bay. Oh my God. Oh, my God. Freakish. Margo's got money troubles. Yes.

Yep. Like death row club is next. I mean, it's. Obviously. And I need to be in charge of casting. Nothing. I. Gare, have you?

You deserve that. Have you wanted to be like a casting director? Have you like looked into this? I mean, I would like, I think it would be like interesting. But like I think that I would be like, I think that I would be like a baby about it. Like I sometimes like, okay, so for instance, I just changed Ashley's book because I had Melissa Barrera as a character and I like absolutely like love her. And then I watched Obsession. and I changed that character to Indy Navarra because I was like, oh my God, she's like fantastic.

So like I kind of feel like I would be mad because I'd be like, oh my God, like I would read the script and I would be like, Jake Gyllenhaal has to play this character. And then like Jake Gyllenhaal would be like, no. And I'd be like, well, who the fuck am I going to hire now? Yeah. So like I would kind of be like a baby about it. Or I'd be like, I hired Jake Gyllenhaal and then like this other guy, like I see him in something and I'm like, oh, maybe he would have been perfect.

And I feel like I would have been like, like I would never be like full. satisfied. Yeah. Because sometimes they reread books just to recast them. Oh, nice. Yeah, doing it in the fantasy version, you don't have to deal with variables. Right. I don't have to deal with like somebody posting something about the movie and me being like super proud of it. Yeah. And then having some asshole be like, oh my God, Jake Jelenhal playing another character like this or something because I'd be like, fuck you, buddy. Like, what are you?

He knows his character well. So I would like to do it though. That would be really fun. Yeah. I actually like I do some like part time work for She reads and right before COVID they were going to send me to New York to see like the casting process of the show The Witcher with Henry Cavill. And I was like so excited to do that and then like COVID hit and they canceled the. I did not know this. Oh my.

God. I was super pumped. That is terrible. I was really excited. So was COVID, but that is terrible. Yeah. Which was worse? COVID or gear not getting to see Henry cable? Oh my God. Could you imagine? I would have signed an NDA in a heartbeat. I'll tell you what.

If I met Henry, every human being's dream. And, oh my gosh. And, okay, because I just saw Supergirl, but David Corrin's sweat. Mm. Oh, my God. The pictures on the beach. Have you seen the pictures on the beach?

Yes, I have. Where everyone's like, it's cold in the beach and there's like, I'm like, that is a man. That is a man. So that's what it looks like in cold story. And Paul Anthony Kelly is like his twin brother too. I'm like, the coin purses are fall. like give me a break i could not know yeah he is a he is a fine looking man both of them are right i was like i got like stuck with like i'm like five foot six i got stuck with like a really

poor attitude like anger issues and like a very slow metabolism and like somebody creates david corn salat i'm like what the fuck is going on wild wild Oh my goodness. Yeah. I had something to say, but it has left my brain at this point. But yeah, go see Supergirl. This is me telling people of Supergirl still in theaters. Go see it. Even though we were just drooling over David. But Melissa Barrera is where Gera and I almost, we almost end up bisexual together with Melissa. Oh, my God. Why is she like? Super hot. Super hot. I know. Super hot.

And I'm like upset. And she also plays a serial killer's daughter. Yeah. So I mean. What more do you want? She would be such a good Greer. She would be. She's super hot.

And Greer is also super hot. Greer is a fucking smoke show. Yeah. I know that 100%. I know that Greer is a smoke show. Yes. And I will like, this would be my casting director moment as if somebody told me, like somebody read your book and was like you did not pick the right person for Greer, I will fight to the death.

That like I crushed Greer. Yeah. Because I want this to be adapted. Like this is one of my dream books of the year to be adapted. Are you a movie buff? Because this was very cinematic for me. Yeah. Shockingly, I watched, well, I used to watch a ton of movies.

I actually thought about like at one point going to school for film criticism. But like I am like solely a horror film watcher. That's it. Just horror all the time. There you go. Oh my God. There you go. Great love.

Did anything like character wise, plot wise, whatever, was there anything that surprised you while you were writing this one? Um, yeah, actually. Okay. I'm, I'm a big fan of Tom and Greer. I really love them. There is a lot of love in that relationship. And actually the very first like scenes that I wrote were like long cut and everything.

But they were of the two of them just like hanging out at home, just like being a family. And they were really sweet. There's like genuine love between those two people. And so how they end up kind of kind of surprise me. I don't know if you can put this in. I don't know. That's true. That's true.

You can say you were just surprised about how much you love. surprised by how much I love you go. There you go. We're words and Tom Woods together. I thought they were very sweet. Yeah. And you can all, the only way you're going to find out what was surprising is if you go read it. So I think that's perfect. It's kind of become like one of my favorite questions

because I get like such a wide array of answers. So like I was like if someone is like a historical fiction writer, sometimes they'll tell me the craziest historical detail I've ever heard. So I just kind of I just like seeing what people say to that one. Do you have any other questions, Gare? I mean, I could stay here all night, but I mean, I've hit all my major point. I get like so nervous with like thrillers too because like I typically

I know thrillers and like I could yap with you all day. Right. Like the farther I get into Yap territory like the more I'm like into a spoiler. Spoiler territory. Right, right. Because there's a lot of things like there's a lot of things with like the synopsis of your book that I was like oh I know it's going to happen like I know well not like at the end obviously but like I was like I have like a general idea of like what I'm going to be reading but then there were like three or four things that really really surprised me from early on until like late in the book and I was like oh like a wild ride to not mention this in the synopsis. So I'm just going to leave it at that like going in mind is like.

I prefer that. Like there's a high enough concept. We didn't need a huge synopsis. Yeah. And I'm like obsessed with like the direction that it went in. Same. So. I did like like child spouse of serial killer is like I know that everyone's like romance has

tropes and like but thriller has tropes too. And that is like my favorite trope like instabye immediately like half my bookshelf is just like that. But like I do find that a lot of them are. like they pick up like years and years and years later like after they found this out and like the person has like moved to a new town and changed their name and they're right building a new life and everything and then usually like something happens where it's like oh no the past came back and like all of that and I love that book and we'll read that book forever and ever and ever but like I really want to write something where it's like no this is like happening now and you can't

start anew because you're in the spotlight and everybody knows you and you are completely fucked and how do you do with that? Yeah. So yeah, hopefully, hopefully, uh, hopefully yeah, sit in the present turmoil. Yeah. I like that. Um, was it the last hunt by Audrey J. Cole? No, but that is so deeply familiar that I feel like it must be living on my, my, to be consumed. It is the wife. Like, she found. she finds out that her husband's a serial killer. And then there's a sequel. Yeah.

And then there's a prequel. So like I always recommend you read the prequel last. Okay. It's his life as a child growing up to be a serial killer. And it was like one of the most like entertaining like wildest ones that I've read where it's like the spouse of a serial killer. Love it. Yeah. I feel like this this is living.

This is living on my TV or I just haven't grabbed it. Yeah. Yeah. I think you'll freaking love it. You'll fly through it. Well, we think everyone will love the death row club and we'll fly through it. And again, as of the time that this is airing, you guys can go get it. So go listen to it, read it, do whatever you prefer reading wise. If you don't love it, you're going to hell. And if you don't love it, you're going to hell. tie it all in at the end. We do always ask at the end two, though, if you have any books you've read recently that you loved,

or if you have books that you just love recommending to people. Yeah, so I'm in the middle of reading Scandal by Kelly and Christina Mancruzzo. They wrote Rumored Last Year, which was the like, she's a pop star, but is she a murderer? Yeah. And I love them. They're like two of my best friends. They're amazing. They're so sweet. I love them. Sweetest human beings. I'm doing an event with Kelly and Nottingham in a couple of weeks and like super hyped. But like, yeah, scandal, amazing. It's about a wag wife and her, you know, soccer player husband and their lives are thrown into complete disarray when a missing woman comes back and blames them for her disappearance. And it is just like, oh, you're talking about making someone's life a living house. I am like undergoing such stress and tension reading about this this poor this poor wife and what they put her through.

Yeah, it's it's amazing. It's a lot. Definitely check it out. It is like your perfect summer, summer beachy read. My copy just came in from Blackwells. Because I ordered a paperback. Yeah, like in it's always so hard to get in the United States. Like it takes forever to come.

10 days. Yeah, yeah. I had to go to Libro F. and like for some reason the day it released in the UK and also released in the US on Libro FM so I just like I'm like I'll watch listen to it then really I should have been like just send me the book and I will read it but I didn't want to go through like a text to speech like I'm an audiobook girlie so like if it's not audiobook like I don't do it it's a lot harder to fit in that's just like the truth of it that's such a great recommendation I hadn't even heard of it I don't know if you could see my jaw dropping this whole

time. There, yeah, so rumored was so good. This cover is very cool. Yeah, it's like, yeah, is she a pop star? Like, is she a murderer? And it was so well done.

And it was such a wild and like fun ride. I even did, um, because I like talk to, I talked to them like all the time on Instagram when I was reading it. And, um, I actually did the, I made my poster and my cast and then I also did the CD covers. that were mentioned in the book.

Oh, like I did like, CD covers and it was so much fun to like talk to them about it. Oh, I'm so excited for Scandal. I love how they Easter egg like, there are people talking about Harlow Hayes in Scandal, which I absolutely adore.

I actually, she's like, so like she posted like, we're friends with like Shan Gilbert who wrote, she started it. And at one point, like, she's like a character in the book.

And I'm like, oh my God, Shan, you're like a superstar. Look at you. you're in the book and they're like wait did you miss at vicky vass and i'm like shut up i'm at vicky vass so like i am in scandal and it was like i like i felt like a celebrity i'm like this is my red carpet moment i'm like thank you guys isn't that wild

ashley winstead put me in the future saints yes jacob alorty i was like this is my dream come true yeah to be like just with him on a late night talk show. Oh my God, yes. I had like two people see mine on Hot Girl Murder Club now since like more people are reading the art and they send me pictures and I'm like, oh,

this is so cool. That was so cool. That was so cool when I read that. So cool. Yeah. Well, we're back to being an Ashley fan club. So we are ending as we began. Yes.

As the Lord intended. Where should people follow you to stay up to date on everything? Um, the only thing I really update at all is Instagram. I am at VA Vasquez writes and it is Tuesdays in Vasquez. It is the Cuban spelling. Um, this has been amazing. Like I, um, it's not my last name. It's my husband's last name because I'm a teacher and I do not want anybody to know that, um, I have written these murder books because I sometimes teach 10 year olds. So I'm like, but everybody miss spells his last name. Like everyone spells at VAS. Q-U-E-Z, included, like, magazines, like publications. And I'm like, oh, no.

And I'm like, Ronnie, everyone misspels your name. He's like, thank God, you now feel my pain. I'm right. Well, I will spell it correctly.