Bookwild - What Makes Stories Scary with Halley Sutton

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

This week, I'm back with Halley Sutton and we dive into what makes something scary.  We discuss different movie and book concepts and the way different scary sub-genres scare different people.  My audio also recorded through my camera instead of my microphone, so sorry for the audio quality in advance.Books We Talked AboutThis Family LiesStalkerThe Chestnut ManMaeve FlyThe Return Movies We Talked AboutLonglegsOddityLate Night with the DevilA Quiet Place: Day OneMaxxxine Follow Kate on InstagramFollow Halley on Instagram Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

I'm good with dog interruptions. We're always good with dog interruptions. Okay, because we have a hundred pound piradoodle in the background here, and she's pretty chill, but she may at some point be like, what's going on? Yeah. Yep. Oh, and now I have a phone call coming in because my parents have a landline. Like, what's different happens? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, what's that ancient technology in the background? Like two millennials like who would do this? It's almost like you're faxing. This is horrible.

Hallie Sutton is back this week. We're going to talk about, I'm sure we will talk about all kinds of things like we always do. But we're also going to talk about what makes things scary. Yes. I feel like I've been, first of all, thank you so much for having me back. It's always a pleasure, truly. I feel like I've been seeing stuff online on Instagram and then even from some of my friends that like, and I guess it is sort of the time of year.

It's like it's so deeply summer, but like Michaels has all the spooky stuff out. So like instead of Christmas in July, we're moving into like Halloween in July. So this feels very right, like summer spookiness. And Starbucks just released when their fall menu will happen. So it's just all coming to. It's like on like August 20th, we'll have access to pumpkin spice lattes again. Wow. I'm not ready for it to be fall yet.

I keep being like, gosh, I'm going to do so many fun things this summer. And I'm like, the summer is almost over. It's happening. This is the summer I'm located in pool. Yeah, right? Totally. Totally. Well, I, first of all,

not to brag to everybody, but we saw eight movies this month. Wow. And so many of them were so good. Oh, yay. And I'm so spoiled. And like, what am I going to do for the rest of the year? Because, like, it's definitely because it was July that there were that many good ones. Totally.

But now, like, every other night, we're like, is there another, is there another movie out yet? Like, is there something we go, we're, like, addicted for it. So, can I ask? Oh, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say, so is that eight movies in theaters? Yes. Wow.

So as bookish as I am, I guess this is my most movieish trait. We have AMC really close to us. And if you do the A-List membership, you can see unlimited. We can see up to three movies a week. Oh, wow. And it's only, it's 1899. So, like, if you go to two movies in a month, you pretty much pay for it. Yeah, that's a really good deal.

always had it. I know. So we've always had it. And the nice thing is you can go to any A&C in indie. So there was one that we saw called Audity, which was released by a really small production company. It was released by Shutter. And I think it just had a really small release rollout. So we went 35 minutes away to a theater we've never been to to go see that. But I counted under our membership. I love that. That's kind of like, do you remember the glory days of movie pass? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had movie pass when I was in grad school, and my friend Olivia and I would go like four nights of the... We saw, like, everything that was in theaters because it was so cheap. It was $10 a month and you could see one movie a day. And of course, they went under because they weren't making money because that's an unsustainable business model. But like, for six months, we were like every night, we were like, we can't afford not to be going to see a movie.

We got to go see another movie. We've been like that sometimes. We're like, have we even seen? two movies this month. Right. Because that's like what would be like making it the deal. I'm like, I don't know. Let's see what's on.

Yeah, totally. Amazing. It's so easy too because like we've just been working later. But then we have dogs as everyone knows who wants so much of our attention. It's actually so hard to watch an uninterrupted movie. Yeah. I can see that. Some of it is like we'll get to the end of a day and we're like, is there a seven or eight

clock showing like let's get out of the house the dogs is whining out us we can watch a movie and I think it's just like kept us going we've been like working on a lot of projects just I'm not trying to sound like that person just like no I get a lot of her I so it's it's okay to just leave and go watch a movie I feel like it like rejuvenates us quickly I feel the exact same way I feel I definitely my movie going habits have changed since COVID like I don't go see movies in theaters as much nearly as much as I used to. But there is something, partially because I remember how annoyed I am by other humans

when I'm in a movie theater and I'm just like, oh. Yes. But like there is something different about going to see a movie in a theater and like you're not paying attention to anything else. You're sitting there. You know, it's such an experience and it's such a treat. Like I too, I've gone to see two movies and theaters this month,

which is not your eight, but like actually is a lot for me. So I'm excited. I think we might have some. crossover about things we've seen. I probably. Yeah. I think I saw enough of them to have some crossover.

I know. You're like, I've seen everything in theater, so yes. Like I've more, so probably. But yeah, it is, I remember Seth Rogan in an interview talking about how seeing a movie in a theater, it's also like a collective experience. Yes. And when it's good, I'm with you. There sometimes you get in a theater and you're like, I hate.

people why am i here totally but with like comedy was from his like you like you're comparing it to church like you like go to this special place to like experience this special story with other people and i was like that is so romanticized but then like i've definitely i did we go a lot when there are tons of people so it's not always the collective part but yeah it is like you're just in the dark amc has comfy recliner seeds so you're also comfy oh i love that experience it. Yeah. No, I totally agree. And like, first of all, that's very Nicole Kidman, the like, we come to this place because some heartache feels good here. Yeah. But like there is, and it's interesting. I feel like it's particular true in comedy, but it's also true in horror.

And even like in bad movies, like the chemistry of the theater. Like if people find it really funny, like I think you tend to find movies funnier if everybody around you is laughing or like if everybody around you is really tense or like movies that you see where people are all kind of like this is ridiculous like even if you're not loving the like that communal experience like it really does change how you feel about a movie for sure yeah yeah like i almost considered going to see madam web in theaters oh yeah the collective experience part of like laughing at it totally everybody being like what was the what's that crazy line where she's like he was there with my mother when who's studying spiders in the Amazon or whatever and like having everybody laugh like that's such a fun

moment you know yeah we were like busy enough that week around that time that we were just like we weren't ever prioritizing it just because we knew we weren't going to like love the movie but I was like I think it would be funny with other people but what I will say was actually so much more fun with people was Deadpool and Wolverine oh I bet I didn't feel like I said the wrong title that's the right title. I don't think so. It was the first time we've been in a theater that was completely packed, because sometimes we go at like 2 o'clock too. Sure. And we can just like back to our work. But this was the first time we were in like a pretty large theater that was packed. And it was. It was like all the inside jokes they managed to like sneak in at the Easter eggs, like the cameos.

Like it was cool like being with everyone being like, like when a really big cameo happened, Literally everyone is gasping. So I do quit sometimes with all the people too. Totally. I think it like it's it it is. It is a collective experience. And I love that. That's cool.

I want to hear about what you saw. Okay. So obviously Deadpool Moldering was one of them. I always love Deadpool. So I knew I would love it. And still I'm like, was that a 9.7? Like was that almost perfect? Wow.

So I loves that one that much. It's so fun. Like, don't take it seriously because it doesn't take itself seriously. And go have fun. That's like, that's my, I don't know, that's my commandment to everyone. I love that. I love that. So yeah, I loved that one.

Twisters. We saw Twisters. Oh, I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen the original, which is like, okay. I hadn't either. And I went in expecting it to be like a six. I was really nostalgic about the first one, so he really wanted to. And I was like, he'd probably be like a six.

Yeah. I came out and was like, was that like an 8.8? Was that a nine? Like, that one shocks me too. I love it. I just feel like they did a lot well. And it's another one that's really fun. Like, expect it to be a fun summer movie.

But then also the character development that happened, I was super impressed by. It felt very safe to cat. Like, you discovered her misbelief and then challenging her misbelief is like such a big part through it. So I thought it was cool that at character development. Of course, I thought it was cool because Glenn Powell was in it. I love Glenn Powell. He's got like chemistry with a rock, you know? I know it's like the ongoing joke on TikTok.

Like no matter who his co-star is. Like, he loves computer than any of them. You could come play with robots. Yep, it's true. He's just amazing. Do you see one but you? What one? Anyone but you?

Why can I not think of her name? I love her. Sydney Sweeney. Yes, I did see that. I actually really liked it. It was cute. I expected it as well. Agreed.

Agreed. He really is. And one with him that's like a random from, I want to say like 2016, it's a Richard Linklater film. It's called Everybody Wants Some. Have you seen this? I keep seeing it on TikTok. I haven't watched it.

So I like me too. Yeah. It's great. It's really good. Am I echoing a little bit? I mean, kind of. Okay. Not a ton of.

Okay. Sorry, I'm hearing it a little bit in my thing. So everybody wants some was, I loved that movie. It's like the story of these like baseball players in the 80s and they're all just trying to like meet girls and stuff. But it's got this like weird core of sweetness to it. It's really great. He's in it too. He's so good.

I know I need to add that in gears that he got to know him in Screen Queens, which I did not end up watching on TV. But he says his character is hilarious in that. Yeah. Yeah. Power at Lynn Powell. Totally. Yeah. I love that one.

That one was seriously so much fun too. like very much enjoyed it. Um, and then we saw long legs. This actually is not in chronological order, but you saw long legs. I know you saw I did too. Yes. This kind of I have a couple. I'll still complete my list of eight, but this kind of brings us to our subject is that in what I want to give credit where credits do in brilliant, scary horror movie marketing, they, really played up that this was like the most terrifying movie of the decade yeah and I think everyone saw everyone in their mother saw the clip of like um micha Monroe's heart rate like skyrocketing and going up the first time she saw Nicholas Cage in his costume so brilliant marketing like I

want to point out that it got all of our attention like I think it got people's attention who didn't know about the movie oh yeah for sure so So I obviously wanted to see it. But a lot of people before I had even seen it were like, it was not the scariest. That was not the scariest and blah, blah, blah, blah. And so it had me thinking about what is scary because quickly to say, I enjoyed the movie. Like I really did. I think I'd give it an eight.

And it reminded me of reading thrillers with like FBI agents and, serial killers. Totally. It definitely, it has like a, it's like, I think it has more in common with, say, like, Silence of the Lambs or Seven than like a lot of other horror films. So it's, to me, it felt more, although it does have horror elements, but it feels, I mean, it is horror. Like, their marketing it is horror and it definitely, it gets that. But like, for me, it did feel more, like, thrillery procedural, but, like, really well done. And I would say, I'd give it probably, like, an 8 too. Like I was on board for maybe 85% and even the ending worked okay for me, but there were certain parts of the story that I kind of came out being like, well,

what? And I don't want to give anything away. Maybe we can talk about it offline, but like, but I would say solid movie. Also, can I just point out that we're in the middle of the Olympics and you keep rating the movies like 8.8. I'm like, it's the Kate Olympics for the like July films is what's happening. This is amazing. The Olympics has infiltrated by brain. It really is. Oh, that's awesome.

But yeah, I felt the same way about it. And it's beautifully shot. So, like, it's also very fun to look at and to watch. And I like what they did. There are definitely, like, some scary moments. Like, it's not. It didn't terrify. me. Like I wouldn't have, I wouldn't say I was terrified at any point. So when people have asked me

about it, they're like, is it, is it so much not worth the hype? I'm like, I don't think that's the question. Like my answer is, it's a really kind of what I'm saying. It's really good FBI agent going after a serial killer. I've said is more like Silence of the Lambs too. Um, but if occult stuff and devil, devilish, like devil worship stuff, terrifies you, then yeah, it's a terrifying movie. So that's like the flip side. Totally. I've talked to people who are like,

that movie scared the shit out of me. So I've just been. What is scary? It's scary is. Yeah. No, I totally agree with you. And like, Nicholas Cage is great in it and wearing so many prosthetics that it's kind of insane.

And there was one jump skis. I'm trying to remember. I don't remember exactly where it was. It was sort of in the middle. And I was seated next to a stranger. And I jumped and I said, fuck that. And the guy just started laughing. So like it did at least get me at one moment. And I love, I know, I was trying to think when we started talking about this is the topic. I was thinking about like what is scary to me. And so much of it is, I mean, we can, I don't, we can dive more into other stuff. but like, like, no,

it's almost the unseen thing to me that, like, when you're, when you're threading out that tension, particularly in the beginning of a movie before you see the big bad, that to me is always so, like,

and this movie does that really well. You know, there's so many, like, almost moments where you know something's going to come and then it does or it doesn't and, like,

just the kind of atmosphere of it. Oh, God, just incredible. Performance. Like, Mika is like, like, I hope she gets nominated. I don't know if she will because it's like, who knows. But like she held her mouth in a certain way. Yes.

Sometimes we're like, you felt tense with her. Like you were like, oh my God, it's about to happen. Yeah. And she had this sort of like almost antisocial affect. Like, I don't know. She's great. She's a knockout performance in that for sure. Yeah, I was about to tell you something.

but that needs to go to the list of not spoiling talking time. Okay, okay. So I will tell you something else that was just funny about that. But it's like, I think so many people, I was even saying, like, even people of Bookstagram, like, someone posts a story and they're like, well, this was okay. And some people who are like, this is terrible. People were having these, like, big reactions to this movie. And I just thought it was kind of silly because, like you're saying, there even are some

scares. Yeah. It is creepy and what you said, that's what I was thinking about kind of in preparation for this as well, is like when I describe it to people too, I talk about like they set the movie long legs sets up a really large feeling of dread and it stays all the way through like exactly what you were saying. Like you feel that and you're scared and don't quite know enough about anything to know what's what direction things are going um totally so then i would say like this was like a dread inducing movie to watch or unsettling yes or and then like sometimes it's like i was trying to think of the word there was a word i used for another book recently but there i think there are like more specific maybe there's sub genres of scary is also a way to look at it oh for sure yeah

where like I think we have other words we use that made me more accurately describe what kind of scary it is. I agree with that. And I think you hit the nail on the head, which is like they took a marketing tactic to get people into the theater by being like, this is the scariest movie that came out of Sundance and all these different things. I don't know.

I don't remember exactly what they said, but it was to the effect of like, people are fainting in the movie theater. It's so scary. And so you kind of set your stuff. yourself up for failure when you do that because there's no way you can hit that hype, but you're trying to hit that hype to bring people to see it. So I understand it's like a weird dichotomy. Overall, I really enjoyed it actually. I thought it was great. Some of the stuff about how it wrapped up, I had questions about like, what about this thing and like, why did that? But like,

I always have story notes about stuff. But like overall, I really enjoyed it. And I loved it. It was like set in the 90s. had this kind of different, like, feel to it. It was, like, it was very vibey. And I think that's, like, one of the great joys of horror films. Yeah, it's like vibiness, you know? Yeah, I agree. Like, it is still just, like, a really good movie. And I'm really glad I watched it in theaters, too.

Like, that's another time. But you're talking about the marketing. That's, especially because that's kind of what we do for people. We're not, like, marketing, but creating content that's useful for something. that's what was so interesting to us about all the social media clips that discussed the movie ahead of time. I was like, this is going to be so cool to see how this plays out. And they had that was from, oh my gosh, why can't I think of the production company. Neon.

No, not neon. Yes, Neon. Is it 824? It wasn't 824. I think this was neon. I bet you're right. So neon, this was neon to the production company. company, this was their first movie to ever make 20 million and its opening weekend.

Oh, amazing. A ton of money. So cool story to that marketing. Like, I'm sure some people would say, like, oh, you're taking advantage of people by calling it scary. But it's not that it's not scary. Right. Like, it's there. That's the purpose of marketing is to get people to, like, see or read or do something, you know?

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I think it's cool. We were like, whoever came up with that is like getting a bonus right now. I agree. I agree. We did not talk about the premise of long legs at all. Should we tell people or should we just assume they know? We probably should. I was like, just going. I was just to go right into it, guys. It's the inhaler. I told Hallie ahead of time. I'm an inhaler today. So if I'm speaking much faster, that's why. And it sounds like I just glossed over long legs.

Not at all. But I was like talking about it. And then I was like, oh, we haven't explained the premise. We are not a film podcast. Right, right. Right. So the general premise is an agent, an agent played by Micah Monroe, who I keep talking about, Lee. she's mildly psychic her point is like she gets stuff right one out of like three times

and so she gets brought in to work on a case with a serial killer who is doing really strange things to families that's like because the trailer doesn't really give you as much as I just gave you so I'll probably read it at that but that's where you get the feeling of it feeling like kind of like a police procedural because your main character is an FBI agent who is intuitive if she's not psychic yes yeah well said very well said thanks just just five minutes later whatever if anyone was I mean they could have paused in like Google or something so yeah totally so so but I I feel like that one, like, really sparked so much conversation with both moviegoers

and I was even seeing it with bookish people. And then I saw, man, I'm losing my voice. Oh, no. Sometimes I try to power through it. And then I'm like, they're just going to be listening to my voice vibrate. So what was I? Oh, I was transitioning into, it's been interesting seeing the different conversations that have happened around that movie with book and film people. And there are two guys and I will link it

in the show notes. Sometimes I feel like on TikTok especially, I will like know someone by their face, but it doesn't mean I bring attention to their username. Like I even know I follow them. So I will link them. But there are two guys who do like film reviews just like of almost every film and like they just do them really well. And one of the guys was like he started going off with like, everyone said, and he wasn't even being this snarky, but the gist of it was like everyone said long legs was so scary, but I just saw this movie and this one actually scared me. Oh. That was the one called Audity that I was saying had such a small. Did you see it?

I haven't. I actually don't know anything about it. So I really want to hear what it's about and what you thought of it. Yeah. So this guy went on it. So I'm like, you have my attention because apparently I'm just obsessing over what's scary. So that's what I did in July. And so he was like, and also, God, he's like, No, that was me. I'm sorry. It's my parents' grandfather clock.

I know. I realized it after like the second sound. Speaking of scary things. It is for sure haunted by like a Victorian child. So. Oh, God. So he basically he said too, like, I don't think a lot of people are going to know about this one because this is from an even smaller production company called Shutter. But he was like, it was, he was like, I was scared so many times.

And also it was a great story. So I was basically like, we have to go trying to see this. Yeah. It was a super small release. And so like the first three days, it came out on July 19th. The first like three or four days, they. there would be like two showings like one afternoon like maybe like two and then one at like nine 45 and yeah couldn't make any of those work in the first few days and so then all of a sudden

it was only at like theaters way far away from us and at like nine o'clock was like the only show so we did it we did it one day we finally got it to go watch a nine o'clock movie um and i'm really glad we did because it was another one that like in theater so it is about a woman who is blind and also psychic. And she feels like when she can touch things, like touch personal items, she knows like the story of the people items. So her twin sister is brutally murdered. Now I'm having hiccups, guys, I'm sorry.

Oh, no. And I'm coughing. Like we're just falling apart, man. Oh, God. I think I get more when I take my inhaler board. And I think my dog's because you're doing more of the, like, breathing. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure.

So her sister is brutally murdered. Her twin sister. Oh, no. And, like, the vibes, though, like, yes, she got murdered. Sad, sad moment. The vibes, though, she. got murdered in this like remote, I don't know where it takes place if it's Scotland or England actually, but it's in Europe. And it kind of looks like, you know those like castles that were just

it was, but it's just like kind of like the outer walls, like four outer walls and the whole house is even filled in. Basically it's this like kind of, it's like that, it's like a house around a courtyard in these little like narrow parts. But it is so moody on the inside. and like dark and wonderful. And like we got out of the theater inside. I was like, I would never live somewhere like that. And I was like, I would never stop reading a place like that. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. For sure. Okay. And did it, was it scary? The sister is murdered. Okay. The twin sister is murdered. And then we're not following her.

We're following her. And psychic. But she was murdered there. when they were like doing some renovations. Yeah. Then her husband, the ex-husband of the dead twin, like brings an item to the living twin, Darcy. Interesting.

And because he thinks it'll, she thinks if she can touch this item, she can figure out who killed her sister. So then it comes, which I, in my like mini review of it talks about how it's really a genre mashup. Because then what it starts to feel like, you are with a detective solving a case. She's just like psychic is the thing that works for her. So it's like to find certain items.

She can figure out what happened to her sister. So then you're kind of on like that route. But there's definitely the paranormal stuff because she truly is connected to the spirit world. So there's a paranormal horror. There's kind of like a murder mystery element. know what it's exactly what it is. And definitely also just a thriller, but there were some big jump scares,

and there were two times. Oh, yeah? Where Tyler, even in the theater looks over to me. He's like, this is terrifying. That's awesome. So, okay, what's your rating of it? I'm writing it down on my notebooks, because I want to watch it now.

I think my rating of it, if I was going to do my Olympic scoring, I think I would get it. an 8.8 as well. Okay, pretty good. Pretty good. Maybe a 9. I'll have to think about it.

Because I thought he was going one way and it didn't. Sometimes that doesn't mean that it should have just because that's what came to mind for me. Totally, totally. Yeah. I love that. You've really intrigued me. I love a good, like, paranormal. I also love, I was.

thinking about when I was prepping for our conversation today, I was thinking about, like, what are some of my favorite scary movies that I've seen over the years, too, and, like, what is scary to me? And oftentimes, they wind up also being films from other countries, or set in other countries, too. Because I think that one of the things that horror does so well is it often connects to, like, historical events, or, you know what I mean? Like, often, like, a recurring theme of stuff is sort of, like, we've buried this horror, but it can't stay buried forever. And like, so to me it's always interesting to see like that sometimes in American stuff, but also in other, like, for example, like not to move away from oddity, but like I love Giermo

Del Toro's work, especially like Pan's Labyrinth or the devil's backbone, which you haven't seen Pan's Labyrinth? No. Oh, Kate, you are in for a treat. It is a masterpiece. And it's all basically about like, like truly, it really is about like Spanish. fascism and like the history that they like him like the way that like this evil is kind of like bubbling up in all these other places oh my god you are in for a treat it's like a dark fairy tale but like a

very dark horror fairy tale it's so good like i've always known that it was a movie that i was supposed to watch like that i would like and then i never do so i'm adding it to my watch list yes and another one like that is a movie called The Orphanage, which is also a Spanish film. Gierma Deltour produced it, but he didn't direct it. And it's like this woman returns to this orphanage as an adult. She had grown up there and she's got her adopted son. And she and her husband are like renovating it and turning it into an orphanage again because like she was like, you know, it was so meaningful to me as a child. And then all these like dark secrets come forward. And the son starts to have this imaginary friend and you're like, who is the, what is the friend?

I don't know. I've taken us far from oddity except to say that I do love things. Like when you're talking about it being set in like a Spanish or Scottish or English castle and like these sort of paranormal. That's like all in my wheelhouse for sure. Yeah. I think you'll like it for sure. I'm sure I will. And I need to watch both of those now. Uh-huh. Don't worry. I'll like pester you until you do. I'll be like Tyler, I know what we're watching tonight. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, I liked it a lot and I even, I'm going to manifest it right now. My dog is yawning with sound at me behind me. That's okay. Annie was doing a little growling for a moment there. Yeah, she's adding to the podcast. What was I just saying? Which one was I talking about? We were talking about oddity and then.

Oh, I was about to say that I kind of want to. manifest having the writer of that on book wild because I know it doesn't directly correlate but like I would love to start doing that because I followed him for sure I found him and he's the writer and the director so I'm also going to maybe try to talk to him about it because I think that would be cool do it it never hurt your shot I love that I tagged him in the story and he liked it and so now I think my DM would actually be seen by him so yeah probably so yeah we'll We'll see if Damien, I can't remember his last name, shows up on a book while. He just might.

That would be rad. So, yeah. So you were kind of saying at one point that scary for you is like kind of the unseen stuff. Is that what's typically the scariest for you? I was trying to think about that. I think it's that moment of tension. Yes, I think that that does tend to be the thing that's scariest. I sort of feel like once you see something on screen, your brain starts to be able to deal with it.

You know what I mean? It's almost the sort of, to me, it's scarier when you're like, I know there's something bad here, but I don't know when it's going to come. And like, you know, you're queued up in those scary movies with like tense music or tense moments. And every movie you come into, you have this like weight of all the horror movies that you've ever seen before. Right? So you have this knowledge. And I really love it when like filmmakers can play with that to like enhance the tension. So for me, it is often like those the moments before it totally hits the fan. Not always, but often is this to me that's like the scariest when you're just sort of tense on edge being like, oh my God, just do it already. I'm scared, you know. There is a moment.

That was the moment in oddity that when Tyler showed me, he was like, this is terrifying. Totally. Like, it would be built so much up. Can you even know what you think you're about to see? Yeah. Even seeing it, you're still like, oh, my God. Totally. Totally.

Oh, I can't wait to see it. What is it for you that's the scariest? And also, do you find that you're drawn to certain types of scary movies, more than others because there's so many like you know there's like slasher or paranormal or different things like is something what what like version what genre of horror is scariest to you yeah so an interesting answer that question is that i didn't we didn't even really start watching as much horror and scary movies i feel like until the last like year and a half because i think i just always thought it was completely not my vibe but then like saying there are there are genres to it

So not a movie, but like the haunting of Hill House, I adore the way to use horror. Explore like all of the family problems basically. So when there's really character-driven stuff and horrors in it, I'm typically really interested because there's so much you can play with. um yeah so like that that comes to mind but then like interestingly what is what's kind of the scariest to me is like what i when i was thinking of books that have made me super scared to um is i'm trying to say this without spoiling i'm trying to make sure i'm not spoiling anything about i haven't talked about a movie specifically recently right now. So I think I can say it.

But yeah, like knowing someone is like in the house with you after like thinking. Yeah. Yeah, no thank you. And like that feeling in a TV show or sorry, in a movie or a book, like when all of a sudden you're like, oh, everything means something different because someone was here with me. That terrifies me. Yeah, that is a good one. that is really quite scary. Yeah.

Like there was, and obviously I won't say which book this was, but this all came out into mind when I was thinking about what is scary. So Tyler left. This was like in the fall of last year. He like left for a few days. And so I like picked out the book that I would definitely finish. And it was from an author that I really like, but I've never been like scared reading her books.

I don't get too scared reading too many books is what I also realized. Sure. I was like, yeah, this is definitely one to, like, read right now, like, when I'm alone. And at, like, 70% after this not being in your mind at all as a possibility, you find out that someone's been in that walls of the house watching her. And I was like, I just started this because I thought this was a safe one since I'm alone. Totally. Like, no, thank you.

I was like, I was like, I was like, Am I alone? Like, is someone here? No, thank you. That's, yes. That actually reminds me of, I don't know why, but I do know why. Have you seen the movie The Descent? No.

Okay. It came out, I don't know, like 2008. And it's basically about this like group of female friends who are, I think they're like spalunkers and like every year they pick a trip. And they do it one year after this woman has, like, lost her family. And then they get stuck underground with, like, these little, like, underground critters. It is highly recommend. It was so scary.

And I remember watching that with my friends. And my boyfriend was, I was in college, and my boyfriend was sleeping over. And I woke up at, like, three. And I heard something in the house. And I woke him up and was like, you got it. Like, this is your job as a man. Like, I'm not trying to be gender essentialist. But, like, we haven't closed the wage gap.

So, like, you got to be the one to die. So I was like, go look at it. And he was just like, what? Yeah. There's something about that, about your like, home is your safe space. And it's been invaded and you don't even know. And like that actually makes me think of the only book I've ever read where I consistently had nightmares while I was reading it was the book Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi, which is a true crime book that some people say is more. Bogliosi's fantasy about the motives about the Charles Manson case, but it is about the, like,

Charles Manson and the Sharon Tate murders and the La Bianca murders. And I think what was so scary to me was, I don't know if you're familiar with this, like, they used to do recon before they murdered both of those two, like, groups. They used to send people in to do what they called creepy crawlies. So while they were sleeping, they would, like, crawl through their house and, like, either take stuff or, like, basically to, like, fuck with them and also to, like, prove that they could get in. And I was just, like, forever, no. That's the worst thing I could think. Like, being asleep and having somebody just, like, creeping through your house, even if they didn't, like, harm you at that moment is somehow so scary. It's such an invasion, you know.

No, thanks. Yep, that definitely gets to me. That one gets to me. Yeah. Like another, it's a little more, a little more of a branch off of scary, but movies or books when like someone decides like the main character's crazy and you're like, what do you do from there? Like that plot lines, like when people stop believing you and you're like, you're believing

like the abuser or like whatever, those are. terrifying to me too. I agree. I think I'm sure I know why, but like, whoo, that stuff. Right, because it's, right, you can't get out from under it. Like, every time you protest it, people are like, well, that's just proof that you are and you're just like, how would you ever get out? Yeah. That is the thing that, like, I find very scary, too. Those are, yeah, and those are kind of, like, dread building is, like, also what I was thinking about, because, um, J.M. Cannon wrote a recently new book called This Family Lies. And I've talked about it. So some of you are hearing me say it again. But it's about a woman who wakes up after there was an attempt made on her life. And her husband was killed. But she like put her, it's really random. Like her, one of her fingers touched the bullet. So it just graced her head. So she still had some brain damage, but she's alive and awake. However, she doesn't remember the last like 10 years of her life.

And so she's working with her in-laws because as far as everyone's telling her, she's like estranged from her family. And so like, of course, she's going to stay here with her wealthy in-laws. But then she starts to feel like, I know I don't know who I am the last 10 years, but I don't feel like these are people I would choose to be. year round, but she has no memory of anything else, but she feels like, I think I'm around bad people right now. And I'm like, that was, that was a scary book for me to read, or it's just like the dread the whole time where you're like, who am I? Yeah, totally, totally. And like, right, how would you ever figure out what has been constructed for you by other people? And, like, that's really unsettling.

Yes. And they're like really wealthy. So it's like when she tried, yeah. So it's bad news. Yeah. Bad news. It's bad news and it's a great book. Amazing. Yeah. Did you see any other horror films in theater this month? I saw Maxine. I saw Maxine too. And I want to know your thoughts because I have thoughts. Yeah. I loved two thirds of it and I'm in the like third act fell apart group. Same, man. And, like, that movie, for me, feels like it could not be more constructed to my taste. You know what I mean?

Like, Hollywood, Nightstocker, like, all of these. The film set of it all. And then the end, I was like, oh, this is the end. Like, I thought it just, you know? So not what I was expecting. I know. Because I felt the same way. Every time I saw the thrillers, I'm like, this is going to be my favorite in the Maxine series.

like it has everything right right not so much but the vibes were all so great for like 60 vibes were immaculate Mia goth is great the visuals of it were beautiful and then the story just kind of totally and then the story just kind of fell apart and it kind of felt first drafty you know what I mean like it felt like it was like it needed a couple more revolutions to get there I agree. Yeah. I will represent the side of other people because, of course, I read, I just read Kobe's amounts after I watch a movie.

I love it. Other people's debate, which I think is, you know, it's not even a debate. It's why they liked it is that Ty West has always wanted to do the genre, or sorry, the time period of each of those movies, wanted to do an ode to the type of horror films. that were being made then. And so some people are like, this was the fun of like Hollywood, campy 80s horror films.

This was what they felt like. So that's how some people love it. And I totally see that. And I love that and I respect that too. And I just wish that the end had felt a little more satisfying. I still think it could have been camped and satisfying. Yeah, I agree. I don't have any problem with campiness.

spring on the campy. It was just sort of I got to the end and I was like, this is like the big bad? I don't know. Well, and I can say it without spoilers. Like when we left and like Tyler's not looking for twists and most of the things we watch. Yeah. We walked out and he was like, well, that opening scene made it pretty clear who it was going to be. Right?

Yeah. And I get that like, so I've seen Pearl, but I haven't seen X and I know it's a trilogy. And so I know I'm sure it was picking up on themes from. X, but they're like, well, we can't rely on everybody having seen it or remembering it. So we have to like bring stuff back in. But I agree with you, the opening. You're sort of like, so this is it, huh? Like, this is what it is.

Like, yeah. Yep. Yeah. I just think it's some creativity. Pearl was one of the movies that we were shocked because we went in thinking it was something else. And we were like, in the first 15 minutes, we were like, oh, no. We are not period piece people.

Like we knew it had some weirdness to it, but yeah, we were like this far back in time and then we both loved it by the end because the story just, it's cool. It is cool. And it's like I hadn't totally realized he was doing this until I like you. I like to read a lot of stuff after I watch things and talking about the way that it was playing with tropes of like the Wizard of Oz specifically. And like the way that it just makes like a weird, dirty, sexual murderous Wizard of Oz type stuff. I was like, yes, like this rules, you know? I need to read that. That's fascinating.

Yeah, I'll see if I can find whatever article I read and kick it to you. Yeah, it was interesting. I loved the idea at the beginning. Yes. And like there's a major set piece. I think I can say this without giving away anything. But like there's a major set piece that takes place on the like film lots. And so you're like running through and like there's homages to psycho and all these different things.

And I was like, that was so cool. Like, I felt like the individual parts of it were so cool, but just sort of didn't add up to what I wanted it to. It didn't add up to much for me, sadly. Yeah. That's how I did. Yeah. It was probably our least favorite that we saw.

Yeah. Which was a shame because I expected to come. I expected it to be like my movie. Yeah. Yeah. We were busy. And so we ended up seeing like an 830 with, they do with 25. straight minutes of previews now.

So you can literally get there 30 minutes late in the movies just starting. So it's basically 9 o'clock show. Yeah. Because I was like, I really want to see this. But like it's always in the smaller theaters. Yeah. So we just had to fit it in. And then I was like, oh.

Oh, that's just how it ended. Yeah. Just like, oh, yeah, I agree. I agree. That was, that was a bummer. A quiet place. Oh, how was that one? The other one I saw.

And I should have known that I would be sobbing because I have sobbed at the other ones. But I kind of forgotten, you know, or like sometimes you're like, I'm not today. Right. Like, there's no way. Yeah. So what else about this one is I, it was one of the most unique takes on a Tuesday story because we start off with. with Lupita's character, I can't remember, I think her name's Sam, the movie. We start off with her character and she's living in hospice care.

So she like doesn't expect to live more than a few weeks at this point. And so from the beginning, I'm like, oh, we are going to just have a meditation on death, aren't we? And that is very much what they did with this movie. there are the like to bring it back to scary those alien looking creatures are terrifying and they can't make you so scared with everyone and like the fact that you can't make a single sound so it's definitely scary too but like underneath it there's this whole presence I can't that was not the right word but premise yes yeah there it is there's this premise of like what makes us want to keep living even when we have bad odds against us.

And it's both with these aliens, but it's also with disease like in a cancer that's just killing her. And she's still trying to survive and she doesn't want to be even by them. So already at the beginning you're kind of thinking about like how different it is that she's trying to escape it even though she knows her days are numbered. totally and I don't want to give too many spoilers I feel like this isn't and I you can DM me and be mad at me if I ruin it and you really wanted to watch it but then they include this little relationship that gets developed throughout it even in the silence that like made me think of the rom-doss quote we're all just walking each other home I started sobbing.

There were like 15 minutes left in the movie and all of a sudden I was like, this is going to be one of those ones where like, I'm fighting to not disrupt people because it just like hit me so hard. It hit me so hard. That quote is talking about like all of us are kind of like walking ourselves and each other to our deaths again. Like that even like these relationships, we're building with each other is that we're all even kind of walking together toward that

just like cool sentiments in so many ways and I don't think it's a spoiler to say that there's a relationship in the movie that feels that way and so emotionally that was the most emotional movie I saw all month of the eight also very scary and it's sometimes it's scary like you're meditating about death for an hour and a half too totally it fits but I I was crying so much it was really well you've you've like really sold me on this like I I saw the first quiet place and loved it and then I didn't see the second one I'm sure it's great too and so I'd seen this one and it looked good but I was sort of like it's not super high on my list but like now hearing this piece of it it actually really is that sounds incredible and I was the same way Tyler just wanted to get a movie

that night and I hadn't been prioritizing it either because sometimes doomsday isn't enough for me but what I should have not forgotten is like I already knew that that like, especially the first one, like, that was not just a story about doomsday. So I mean, if I remember that, I've been like, oh, yeah. So basically, I'm glad that day he was like, I need to get out of the house. Like, what can we see? Yeah. And I think, I mean, so on top of all the, like, beautiful emotional layers that those

films do, it's such a smart premise for a horror film to be like, we have to be silent because it is inherently tense for the audience to be, like, waiting for somebody to make a noise. Like it is so, such a tense movie experience. It makes me think of, um, a couple months ago, I got asked to do something really crazy, which was to comment on a documentary, um, that was being made about, um, this writer Cornell Rollerich. And it was in honor of the reissue of a 1952 Argentinian film called, uh, never opened that door. Uh, no Abra's Nuka, I support a suerto, my Spanish is no way. But so it's basically two short films

and they're both great and they're noir and they're like highly recommend anybody watch these. They're really good, they're really great thrillers and they're kind of like 45-ish minutes each. But the second one has a segment in it that's like seven minutes of drawn out, tense, totally silent, and it's like this old woman,

creeping through a house trying to like remove guns from like these bandits who have like come to stay and she can't make a noise and she's blind so she can't see anything and they move things in the house and it's like some of the most tense filmmaking I've ever seen and it's from the 1950s and you're just sitting there being like oh my god is she going to do it and it's so good and it makes me think of it was like it felt like oh that's also it's the quiet place it was the quiet place but in the 1950s and like highly recommend that film and there's just something so tense as a viewer for like you can't make a noise and in this case too she's blind so she's having to do it all by hand and oh it's so good intention is such as like you are locked in it's incredible it reminds me

of it I always say I love about the first Ailes in the book called Aaliener. where she basically, this spy has to get, she has to protect someone who is the son of ex-Russian spies, basically. Like, because they turned on their country, people are coming after their son. So the main character has to secure him and just bring him in. She thinks this is not going to be that big of a deal. And then CCTV is hacked by the Russians. And so she has to get him all the way across. London to a safe house on the other side of London without going in front of any CCTV camera.

Oh, my God. How would you do it? Of English or English books, the CCTV is everywhere there, like even more than we have it. So what you're saying is the tension is so wild, the entire book, and it takes place over 12 hours. And the whole book that you're like, oh, my God. And then I finally get somewhere safe. And then someone did find them. And now she's, like, fighting off guys while this dude is, like, useless behind her.

I love it. Oh, my God. That sounds great. You're like, and then it's kind of a layer of don't make a sound. It's you can't be seen or do this and do this. Right. So tense. So tense. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So good.

I have a movie I saw recently. I'm curious. if you've seen it or heard of it. It wasn't in, well, I don't think it was in theaters. Or if it was, it was a super limited release. But it was streaming on AMC Plus that has also that Shudder network. Like they do all those like scary movies. And it was called Late Night with the Devil. And it's, oh my God.

It's a really, it's so it's not like jump out of your seat scary. But I thought the vibes were like immaculate. It basically is the story of this man who's like a 19, 1970s late night talk show host, kind of like akin to Johnny Carson, and basically may or may not have sold his soul to the devil to rise through the ranks. But it's also like a found footage thing of like this infamous episode of his show where it goes off the rails and like are people actually being possessed and like all this crazy stuff is happening. And it's just got this like 1970s vibe. I think it came out in 2023. I loved it. I thought it was really well done. Again, it's not

thinking back to kind of like the question of our. show is like what makes something scary. It's not a movie that I sat there being like jumping out of my seat, but it was it was tense and definitely horror and just like really well made. Yeah. That sounds amazing. And until you explained it, I didn't catch that it's a late night with the devil because it's like a late night television. Exactly. We're going to have to watch that. We've been needing now that we've watched everything in theaters. I know you guys have like got to wait for Friday to see what else is coming out. Well, trap, the trap is coming out on Friday, which is a Josh Hartman.

What's the trap? Oh, yes, that one looks great. Yeah, he's a serial killer. Yeah. And he's at a huge conference, a huge concert with his daughter. He even said he went to a Taylor Swift concert for research. We're like, okay, Josh. Amazing.

Sure. What great research. So he's like in a huge crowd of people like that. And he's then having to try to escape out of that. Yeah. So I'm excited for that one. It looks good. Yeah, it looks really good.

I know. Yeah, I'll definitely be watching that one. Me too. It's like I also just like thrillers. That's like the other part. I think there are different parts of thrillers that are maybe that feel scary sometimes. but I'm just down for the thrills, you know? Do you notice, are there things that you like?

Is there a difference between what you find scary or what you like in scary books versus like scary movies? I feel like I don't read tons of scary books is what I realized when I was just looking through my list. And as far as movies go, what I can't do is body horror, like extended horror. sure or I will never watch a saw movie so it's like even that sometimes I'm like is it because it's scary or is that just like it's a different thing to me like so I can't handle body horror

no matter where it is books or movies um books when I was thinking about books the scariest ones I've read have been like Nordic Noir type stuff. Yeah. Where like, which is kind of similar to long legs. That's what I would have also told people about long legs. If you've read Nordic noir, it probably feels similar to that.

But Nordic Noir is really known for like you're sometimes in the serial killer's mind. There are these like elaborate kill scenes often. And so those ones are the ones where sometimes you are just like, wow, there are some creepy people in the world. So I think that's scary. But I don't need like too much horror. The closest I got to horror recently was John Fram's No Road Home. But that is like horror light. It was more like graphic horror in my opinion.

So I don't read like, who is the really popular horror? I mean, Stephen King is like probably Yeah. Yeah, that's, I would say Like his book Pet Cemetery is one of the scariest books I've ever read. And it's different, right? Because it's like books you're using so much of your imagination. So it's like there's ways in which it can be scarier

And then there's ways in which it's less scary Because you can kind of turn it off and like set it down And just be like, I don't want to feel this tension tonight. but something about that book I was just like no thank you no thank you I mean I loved it but I was also like not here for little children demonically possessed saying saying terrible things they shouldn't be saying and cats coming back wrong and like no no yeah the books there's that same thing. Now I won't,

now I won't mention either title by one of the books that scared me the most is another book where truly the twist is that someone has been living in her house for like weeks. Oh no. Your son just drops when you get to that answer.

Like that one will always be in my mind is one of the scariest things I read. you're going to have to like text me after and tell me what books you've been talking about because I will I totally will I still have to pull that but yeah like Nordicamore I think is what it's supposed to take it's so visual like they really will like some of these crime scenes and you're like oh god like it just sounds terrible no totally and there's something about I don't know like again we talk about the vibes like Nordic Noir long legs has this too. It's kind of snowy and like rural and remote and just the sense of sort of like you're alone and your environment is conspiring against you too. Like even though it's not necessarily like it's not like long legs is about like a haunted field. But like you can be trapped out there with evil and like nothing can get through to you. And like that is such a scary idea. You know. That's also what's kind of creepy about a book I keep talking about the hunter's daughter

because you're kind of like, is there any evil forest god? Like, you're like, is she safe out there? Oh, the hunter's daughter. I'm going to write that one down. It's a little bit of Slovenik, Slovnik, I think. Okay. Oh, I think you'll like it. It's very, very gritty.

I like that. I always like gritty. Yeah. And then very twisted. I also like the serial killer at the heart of that book, I was like, this is wild, how well-written this is. And she, the woman who wrote it, it has a PhD in criminology, something like, and I was like, wow. I see why this was really good. You're like, that's why.

Yeah, that's what's up. Amazing. Yeah. Do you read it some scary book? books or you, are you, or reading and TV, reading and watching preferences, that's different. Yeah, I would say, like, I definitely do read some horror because, you know, there really is so much overlap in, like, horror and thriller. Like, even Stephen King, I mean, I would say, like, Pet Cemetery is certainly strictly horror, but then you take something like misery, and while it has

horror elements, it's also more of a thriller. You know what I mean? Like, there's, he kind of, There's ways in which the genres kind of like go together. So I don't read a huge amount of horror, but I do read some. I've read, like I wrote, I wrote a couple of other things. This year, one of the ones that I read that was a standout was May Fly by C.J. Lead. Yeah, with the eyeball. So it's a great book. And I, it really is.

So it's the story of this woman who, I don't think it's giving things away. She's got murderous proclivities, let's say. And she lives with her grandmother and is very Halloween-coated. Like, their house is known as like the spooky horror house because they have like skeletons up year around. And it's in L.A. And she during the day is a, she can't, she doesn't totally name it because I think you can't. But she's essentially a Disney princess.

Like I think she's also from Frozen at the party. Nice. And then by night, she's like stalking the men of LA. And it's really well done. It's really well written. And it did have some elements of body for her that like even I feel like I have a pretty strong stomach for stuff and was like, do God. Like it's really good.

But like that is the thing that people should know going into it is like she does some great and disgusting stuff where I was just like, wow, her editor did not tell her to pullback and I love it. And so, but it's good. And she has another one coming out, maybe even this year that I actually think you would like. I don't know, maybe if, I don't know if it'll have body horror elements to it, but it's, I think it's called American Rhapsody. And it's basically about like, I think it's a road trip book and it's got something to do with like evangelical churches and like going wrong. Like it's, I think it's going to be really interesting. It's been getting great reviews.

And she's really cool. She's an L.A. writer. And actually, she was recommended to me by Rachel Harrison, who is a horror writer that I read religiously because she is wonderful. And so her first book was called The Return. And it's basically like this group of friends and one of them goes missing like out in a forest on a run and then eventually comes back like is found, but she comes back wrong. And so then the friends go on a girl's trip to this.

which is kind of modeled on a famous Californian inn called the Madonna Inn, which if you're not familiar with it, you should look it up. Each room is a theme, and they're like these crazy baroque, like, so what is like the rock room and like everything in it is made of rock, like including the bed? And like one is like the luau room. And it's like very like 1970s Hawaiian tropical theme. So they're staying at this hotel and they're only,

I think it's only them and maybe a few other guests. And the friend is like devolving into something other. And Rachel Harrison has this kind of great, she's written, I mean, she puts out basically a book a year and she has one coming out this fall. And I think it's called So Thirsty. And it's her vampire book. She kind of like takes a trope and like leans into it. And she writes what I would call like millennial woman horror where it's like oftentimes they're also kind of circling issues for like millennial women. And they're scary, but they're. they're not, it's not like CJ lead where I came out of it and I was like, I feel forever changed. Like they're really like, and that's not, I feel like there's no way I can say it that doesn't sound like I'm putting somebody down. But like hers at times almost feel like cozy horror. Like they're horror, but you come out of it and you're like, oh, I feel good and like all of this has been resolved. CJ lead, I came out and I was like, I just had my hair like blown back and

I was like, I don't know what that was. But it was, they're both excellent experiences. But like Rachel Harrison is like a must buy for me. Like the second book that she announces, I'm like, I'm there picking it up and reading it. She's just, she's just fabulous. I wonder how I would like more horror reading wise. What I've definitely. I definitely think it's.

I love more action. I need more action thrillers again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would maybe give Rachel Harrison a try because it's not going to come. It's not going to be something that you're going to be like. it's not going to have that body horror element in the same way. All of her books are great.

The return is great. Her second one is basically a take on like witches. The third one is werewolves. The fourth one is sort of like the Antichrist. Bad Sheep. That actually might be my favorite of her books so far, which is like this woman gets invited. She's kind of escaped her family's religious upbringing.

and she gets invited back home for a wedding between her favorite cousin and her ex-boyfriend, who she still has feelings for. And then it just like all devolves. And it's great. It's so good. Oh. You just found a whole other author for me. Oh, yeah.

And she's great. Like she, you should definitely maybe have a conversation with her if you're ever interested because she's like phenomenal. Sure. I don't want to. I like the book. I'm like, I've got to talk to this person. Totally. It's hard of this talking.

Well, good God. Uh-oh. One of the books I'm not going to talk about anymore because it was the spoiler that I discussed earlier. But the books that have scared me, I think, the most. Can you hear of them? I can hear the door to see out a little bit. But now we're good. Yeah.

But it's okay. Yeah. They're tearing down the curtains. Harley. Okay. One of the scariest reading experiences I had was when Gere finally convinced me to read Stalker, which is a Yona Linna in the series by Lars Kepler. And it is terrifying because it is a serial killer who sends video footage to the police

of the person that he's about to kill and doesn't tell them who it is. And they have like 15 minutes to try to use, like, limited footage they have, right? No. I'm trying to save these people. And it's just, like, thinking of someone, like, recording you and, like, they're about to kill you and you don't even know it yet. Like, terrifying. Yeah, that is terrifying. That is very.

And, like, I like this trope and I also find it terrifying. Anytime somebody, like, plays games like that. and you know you're probably not going to win, you know, where it's almost worse to be given the chance of like, you could save somebody, but you're not going to than just like not even having that opportunity. It's so creepy. And it's Nordic Noir as well.

But this is another Nordic Noir that Kare recommended to me that was definitely like, had me looking at chestnuts differently. The chestnut man by Soren spice strip. That's my, I'm sure. right is right yes but this one has a serial killer who literally builds little chestnut men out of chestnuts and like sticks and leaves them behind after he kidnaps his victims I think I don't know he leaves them behind after either a bad killing or kidnapping and oh you're in his perspective

Or no, you shift into the perspective of the victims each time. And it is just so creepy. Like they like. That sounds so creepy. They don't know that it means they're around to die and you're like, so that one really creepy too. I thought I kicked my dog, but it was actually something else under the table.

I was like, oh, no, what? I was just it. Oh, no. Well, yes, the last. little people in Europe. They just write some crazy stuff. Yeah, they do. But yeah, I feel like we had a good conversation about what scary is. I'm definitely interested in anyone else's opinions, too. Me too. I'm very curious about what people find scary. I mean, yeah, I'm very curious. Yeah. So you can DM either of us, and we can all have a little chat about it. That would be great.