Bookwild - What We'll Burn Last by Heather Chavez: Missing Teenagers, Feuding Families, Star Crossed Lovers and a Wildfire

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

On this episode, I talk with Heather Chavez about her newest thriller What We'll Burn Last.  We dive into her desire to write a thriller with a wildfire, the complexities of three POVs at war with each other, and how much fun she had writing the wildfire as a POV.  What We'll Burn Last SynopsisThree women.When she was twelve, Leyna Clarke watched her older sister, Grace, walk away from their Sierra Nevada foothills home with her boyfriend, Adam Duran. Neither was ever seen again. Sixteen years later, a stranger who looks like Grace shows up at the restaurant where Leyna works—and vanishes soon after. When it comes out that Leyna was one of the last people to have talked with the young woman, Leyna’s childhood crush Dominic, who is also Adam’s brother, pleads with her to do the last thing she wants to do: come home.Three secrets.But Leyna isn’t the only one who hasn’t been able to leave that fateful night behind. Her mother, Meredith, still lives in the family’s old home—even if she claims to believe the police’s theory that Grace and Adam were willing runaways. Down the street, Adam and Dominic’s mother Olivia has also stayed, determined to be there when her son finally returns. . . and to prove that Meredith and Leyna have been hiding something all these years. But the past isn’t the only threat to the two families, or the missing girl. As a wildfire sparks, tempers flare and intentions turn deadly. Because someone in the neighborhood knows what really happened that night—and just how good the forest is at keeping its secrets.Who will you trust?  Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

We have three women, POVs, in addition to the wildfire. And these three women have been through a similar trauma from different perspectives, but they've all experienced the same thing. And they react in very different ways. There's a lot of toxicity that bubbles to the surface. So I knew the wildfire would be a backdrop and an important part.

But as I was writing, I realized it was kind of more than that. It was kind of a character in a way that my other settings haven't been as much. This week I got to talk with Heather Chavez about her newest thriller What We'll Burn Last. I flew through this book. It is so pacy. There's something happening every single chapter and I could not wait to figure out what happened. So here's the synopsis. When she was 12, Lena Clark watched her older sister Grace walk away from their Sierra Nevada Foothills home with her boyfriend Adam Duren. Neither was ever seen again. 16 years later, a stranger who looks like Grace shows up at the restaurant where Lena works and vanishes soon after.

When it comes out that Lena was one of the last people to have talked with the young woman, Lena's childhood crush Dominic, who is also Adam's brother, pleads with her to do the last thing she wants to come home. But Lena isn't the only one who hasn't been able to leave that fateful night behind. Her mother, Meredith, still lives in the family's old home, even if she claims to believe the police's theory that Grace and Adam were willing runaways. down the street Adam and Dominic's mother Olivia has also stayed determined to be there when her son finally returns and to prove that Meredith and Lena have been hiding something all these years but the past isn't the only threat to the two families or the missing girl has wildfire sparks tempers flare and intentions turned deadly because someone in the neighborhood knows what really

happened that night and just how good the forest is at keeping its secrets this one was really fun because all the POVs are kind of at war with each other. They all feel like the other POVs have something to hide or that they were a part of something where they have some grudge against them. So reading it is crazy because you're trying to figure out whose POV you even trust and what really happened that night 16 years ago. I could not put this book down. I was burning through it, pun intended. and it was just truly a very fast-paced fun ride. That being said, let's hear from Heather about it. So before we dive into what will burn,

I did want to get to know a little bit about you first. So when did you know you wanted to be an author or when were you like, I want to write a book? I always knew I wanted to write from the time I was very young. I just didn't know what I wanted to write. I wrote a lot of poetry, novellas when I was in middle school. And it was when I read my first Dean Coontz book that I was like, okay, I want to do this. I want to write books that make people squirm and uncomfortable.

And, you know, their heart beat faster. And so I always knew I wanted to write, but I started with. very, you know, innocuous poetry, nothing dark at all. I think the first thing I got published was a poem in a regional magazine in Kansas where my grandma lived. That was about socks finding their pair. I mean, it was just like, I got $3 or something like that. It was so, yeah, definitely an evolution through the years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that is so cool. cool that you just knew from so early on. So as you started writing novels, what is your writing process like? So do you mostly know where the story's going or do you kind of pants it?

It's evolved as well. I mean, like I wrote three practice books, what I call practice books before I wrote No Bad Deed. And it was finding my process because one thing I didn't expect, I'm writing my fifth book now. And one thing I didn't expect is I expected once I had it dialed in, it would work for me every time. And that's not necessarily the case. I started out firmly a pancer. I started on page one with an idea, and then I just started writing. And then when it got to the, quote, editing phase, it was really rewriting the whole book because that's just what I was doing.

And it was not very good. And then finally, I found my process and no bad deed. And I think that's part of why I finally decided, hey, yeah, I'm going to query this one because I realized how much I needed an outline. But it was very bare bones. I mean, it was a very bare bones. Now my outlines have grown a lot. Yeah. But then I also, I've also opened myself up to the discovery more than I did in the beginning when I started outlining because I've realized that all the most exciting parts for me tend to be stuff I stumble upon.

I have the most inconvenient epiphanies. And so I have an outline, but I do take frequent. detours. Yeah, that works. I've heard some people talk about that where like if they can surprise themselves, they feel like then they can surprise the reader too. So it sounds like it's kind of similar to that. Yes.

And I feel like also when I'm beginning, I do all the, I do a pre-work. I do any grams for my characters. I just kind of think of how they would answer certain questions and what they would think because like in before she finds me, for example, Julian Wren have some similarities, but they're very different people and they would handle the situation in very different ways. And it's the same for what we'll learn last as far as we have three women, POVs, in addition to the wildfire. And these three women have been through a similar trauma from different perspectives,

but they've all experienced the same thing. and they react in very different ways. There's a lot of toxicity that bubbles to the surface. And so that is something I think about as I'm writing because I really, until I really know the characters and I've written them, I can't really firmly decide how they'll react. And that's usually what changes. Like all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, that's not the anti-

antagonist of this person's the antagonist and all the things that just kind of come to the surface at the most inconvenient moments. Yeah, that is so cool that you use the enneagram. I am like, I follow so many aneagram accounts. And I think that's, it's cool. Like what I like about that personality assessment or whatever we want to call it is it, it also comes from the person's like biggest fear kind of like what they're trying to avoid. So like that makes a lot of sense that it would help to know that going into writing the characters. Oh, definitely. Lina's a five, by the way, the investigator. And I, yeah, and I honestly am surprised because I did enneagrams and I don't have them memorized for all the characters. I should know. But since I've

moved on, you know, to plotting the next thing, I forgot. what they are. But I do remember Layne was a five. And it's funny because I will answer the questions as I think they will would react the characters. And I do it for all the characters, not just

the POVs. I do it for anybody who's on page for more than say three chapters. If they're on page, then I'll do it. And I'm always amazed. I have not gotten the same enneagram

type for a book. I've gotten them over certain books. But I haven't got the same enneagram for a character within the same universe before. So, you know, that's, you know, that helps to like, yeah, you know, how they're different. It helps me figure out how they would, like what their flaw is, what it is they believe to be true. And how that influences what they actually are doing, you know, to. Yeah, it probably, I'm sure it helps, like, especially like you're saying like with dialogue to know how they really would respond to someone. And it probably, the other thing I was going to touch on is your POVs, like you were saying, we have Lena and Meredith and

Olivia. And they feel so distinct. Like, you can tell whose mind you're in when we're, when, when you're really in the chapters. So I'm sure that like it helps keep them kind of distinct to where you're like, okay, how would this person really be interacting with this other character? Which was what I really loved about this book was all of the POVs essentially, like you're saying, they're all related.

They all had this same trauma happen where Meredith, her daughter, disappeared with Olivia's son. Adam and then Lena is the sister of the missing girl Grace and all of them kind of like have grudges against each other or like think the other person is involved in a certain way and so the tension was so high having it be from these three POVs because as the reader you can't really tell who's telling the truth or whose perspective is skewed because of different ways so with this one, how did you, did you know from the beginning that you wanted to have these multiple

POVs to tell this story? Or did you kind of figure that out as you were writing it? I knew from the beginning that I wanted three POVs and I wanted them to be three women. One of the things that inspired me, it has nothing to do with the book, but as far as the storytelling, when I watching peeky blinders when I was in the early stages of figuring out what this book would be, I always thought, like, well, they have some very strong female characters, but it really is a story about the men, you know, the peek, you know, and their relationships. And it's a fantastic series. I love that series. But I thought, what if it had been told from the female point of view? What if the men were in the background? And so I really liked that idea. It's not at all that kind

a book, but that's, that was the catalyst for deciding I wanted three POVs. Plus, I really enjoyed exploring Julia and Wren in Before She Finds me. So I wanted to go like one more. Now, and part of the reason for it was I there, I wanted to also show the different sides of motherhood. Because Meredith, Lena's mom is not what I would call a caretaker. and Olivia's more the baking chocolate chip pancakes with her kids kind of mom. And so I wanted to show that not every parent, parents, the same too. So that was one thing I wanted to explore in this and what it's like for someone like Lina to be in the middle of that. You know, she used to be very close to Olivia.

that was her aunt Olivia um and you know this is all stuff i don't know did you get it in the book because it was in my head and maybe you know you scratched the surface but um that was a safe place growing up is that she really spent a lot of time when she was younger at Olivia's house and so she was almost like a surrogate mom so to have that cut off in just a moment um felt very raw for her And so that is, I wanted to, I originally Olivia wasn't going to be a point of view. And then as I was, I was just going to be Meredith and Lena. And then I thought, but how much I wanted to juxtapose the two maternal styles, if you will, as well as Lena being in the middle of this very toxic, former friendship now enemies. and when you when you when you when lena comes home for instance um meredith her mom is on the doorstep

with a bag of dog feces planning to go put it on olivia's doorstep yes so you know it's not a healthy environment which is why lena hasn't been back for years um but i really wanted to see all points of view for this neighborhood feud if you will and reactions different reactions to the tragedy yeah no it did come across because I felt the same way, like there's even, there's something in Olivia's perspective where she talks about how she even kind of felt, felt that, that Lena wasn't necessarily getting like maternal attention at home. I can't remember exactly what the sentence was, but it does. It makes it, it makes it more sad. Like, you feel, you feel more for Lena. Like,

she's just, she's so stuck between all of it. And it did. It just, it raised the tension a lot for me, at least. That's a really good word, by the way. The really good perspective, the word stuck, because that is Lena. Yeah. He is stuck and she's stuck in all the way. So good choice of words. I'm going to use it. I'm writing it down right now. Nice. I'm so glad. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would just, it would just be terrible. Like someone, like you're saying, like she was her aunt, it would just be terrible feeling like this was like someone that you got a lot of comfort from and then losing it because of something that happens like this and without getting into spoilers I feel like there there is there's so much observed about like mother and child

relationships even though Meredith isn't like your traditional huggy maternal type mom but it extends into the ending to kind of like just there are still different ways that you can be a mom I guess is what I'll leave it at will be cryptic um but the other point of view that i wasn't necessarily including it but it is a pov is the wildfire or actually when I was talking Ashley Winstead about it she was even saying like it's the perspective of the trees kind of which was so unique. What made you kind of want to include that? Like I felt like it made it more cinematic, but where did that idea come from?

I was actually originally writing the three women. And it was dual reasons. One was I knew I wanted to have this sense of isolation. And I knew I wanted there to be a wild. I wanted it. Originally, it was supposed to be set on an island. And then, yeah, I mean, it was a different book. It, you know, books change, outlines change. And this, I realized, you know, the, you know, the forest, Plumis County, that's really what I wanted, where I wanted to set it. So I knew the wildfire would be a backdrop and an important part. But as I was writing, I realized it was kind of more

than that, it was kind of a character in a way that my other settings haven't been as much. I mean, settings should always, in my opinion, be somewhat of a character. Like, it's, why is it set here? That should, that should matter. But at the same time, this one matters most because all of a sudden, you know, there's a wildfire. But then also from the nature of a wildfire, you know, it's a threat. but totally without malice.

So it's kind of an antagonist, but kind of just doing its thing. And having, as you know, if you've read the author's note, my own experience is evacuating during wildfire, having people that I care about to lose their homes. It's a lot to go through. And I really wanted, I didn't want it just to be like checking a box here. I wanted to really explore it more deeply. And I felt like the only way to do that was to give it its own chapters. So that was how it started.

But then as I was writing it, I also realized it increased the sense of dread because, you know, at first there's a dry lightning storm. The fire sparks. And, you know, they don't realize this. They realize it's fire weather. They realize it's red fire. warning, but that's just something anyone lives with here, you know, and in other areas. It's part of living life in Northern California and other areas prone to wildfire. So it starts out this sense of uneasiness, but they're not really fearful.

They're not really thinking something's really going to happen because this is what we live with. I mean, I've just, gosh, I don't remember about a month ago, three weeks ago. there was wildfire here. And it wasn't close, but it was enough to make the air smoky. And everybody knew there was a wildfire just by the smoke in the air. And everyone got off their phones and went on the watch duty app. It was like, where is it? How close is it?

How bad is it? And that's just kind of what they are too. But at the same time, they're dealing with bigger issues. And so I kind of wanted it in the background, this slowly approaching menace, that they were not aware of to increase the dread and also increase the stakes because, you know, there is this secret that they're trying to uncover, another missing girl, and all of that could be threatened by this natural disaster. So, and if I'm being honest, this isn't maybe the right word to use, but they were also really fun to write. Not because wildfires are

fun there definitely definitely not but just being able to explore and learn about something that I didn't know um that much about except for as an observer so learning to me is always just an you know such an important part of the process like my poisons with before she finds me i like i like exploring areas that i don't know much about yeah that's really cool uh i know you You just mentioned a couple things that it almost was on an island. So that's kind of crazy to think about. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Book Wild. And if you are, could I ask you a favor?

Could you go and rate and review this podcast and whatever platform you're listening? Ratings and reviews make the biggest difference in discoverability of the podcast. And I definitely want to find all of our fellow thriller readers out there. So if you could go rate the podcast and leave a short review, that would make a huge difference. Thank you. and let's get back to the show. With your author's note, you kind of mentioned that, like, you did have to evacuate, and that feeling made you think, like, someday I want to write a book that has a wildfire in it,

but you didn't necessarily know whose story was going to take place there. So what was it that made you feel like these characters and their story was the right story to pair with this like wildfire? I think for for me, the wildfire actually happened when I was drafting No Bad Deed. I'd actually been through several drafts. It was about a year before I got my book deal that the wildfire happened, October 2017.

And there were spots in No Bad Deed that were devastated by the fire. And but it felt too soon. And it felt like, It just wasn't, I didn't want to layer it in as an afterthought. I do mention places that are burned, you know, before it burned, stuff like that. But I didn't, it wasn't a wildfire book. It wasn't, it felt like, and it was too soon. It was, it was just too soon.

And, but I knew that, um, I wanted to write something someday. And it was about finding the right moment. the you know I I talk about how writing for me is very cathartic and I work through things and so what will run last I was like yeah it's it's okay I'm distant enough but it's still important enough in my brain it's at the forefront still and I really want to write this so I I knew I wanted to have like I said an isolating um whatever, isolation. I knew I wanted there to be isolation. But it wasn't, and then the island, like I said, was the first one. But having never been to an island and I was actually talking

through the idea with my editor and it was kind of like, oh, we were just talking in general about wildfire and it was suddenly like, wait, what if I, what if that instead of a, you know, a physical like island separation? What if instead it was. a circumstance, a natural disaster, something else that was more urgent. That was, you know, what was the greater threat to them. And so I kind of backed into it that way, but then once I decided that, then everything else kind of fell into place. It was kind of like, you know, I knew I wanted there to be some kind of, you know, something that was kind of pressuring them, But I just didn't know what it was.

And then when I, the wildfire was like, okay, now I know the whole story. And so it was one of those those kind of backwards moments where the setting and that part of it came and solidified the plot. Usually I have the plot and I kind of like figure out, okay, where should this take place? This was kind of like, oh, no, this is what I want to write. And the whole story changed with it. I mean, it really, it was a hostage drama. It was like a totally different book. before and yeah it was so it was uh i'm very happy with how it turned out and that epiphany like

i said they're inconvenient but luckily this happened at the beginning of the process yeah yeah it was kind of crazy because when i was reading this i was like really close to the end of it and we went and saw um twisters which is obviously another thing where it's like a natural disaster is a big part of the antagonist. But what the movie does is it also uses it, it specifically uses it as a way of like the characters facing their fears. And so that's kind of, it uses a natural disaster or something that's like totally out of our control as a way for the characters to like I was saying like face fears and stuff

that's out of their control as well. And I feel like with what will burn last, it's. kind it kind of like mirrored the fact that like all of these secrets were eventually going to like come through and just kind of destroy not destroy the lives but there's like it was it was inevitable at that time in their lives that like the secrets could be kept anymore basically so for me at least even when I was like watching the movie and like thinking about oh I'm reading a book about like a natural disaster too. I think it's kind of cool the way it mirrors what's happening like internally for the characters as well. Oh, it definitely, it definitely forces their hand.

They, you know, they've been like Meredith and Lena have been estranged. They don't really communicate. And Olivia's definitely, like I said, she's, she is not happy to see Lena back in the neighborhood at all, especially because her surviving. son Dominic is also Lena's former boyfriend crush. And so there's there's a lot of relationships that are kind of being forced to confront one another. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that is included that makes it super complicated, like there's just so many complicated relationships. But Dominic, Adam's brother is the one who, who reaches out to Lena to kind of have her come back because just because of this appearance of

this girl who looks like Grace. And so they have a lot of history. She kind of always had a crush on him. And then they did actually date for a little while and it didn't work out. But it's another thing that like raises the tension is that like they are attracted to each other. They enjoy being with each other, but this, like, big divide in their family because Lena has opinions about his brother is, I know, I'm trying to talk around it. It really, really added to the tension as well. Does you know that you wanted to, like, have this kind of will they, won't they romance in it as well, or did that, like, develop as you started writing Lena? I enjoy writing a good romantic subplot.

You know, it's tricky in a book about, you know, such dark issues. But I do enjoy exploring that. Like, no bad deed, one of my favorite scenes to write was the early scene with her and her husband. So I really do like exploring those. But I also really enjoyed in this instance having that not Romeo and Juliet vibe, but there is a certain like it is not going to work for them to be together and they recognize that. And you're right, she has strong opinions about Adam. And Dominic, you know, of course, was the older brother. He was the older brother, the protective brother. He, you know, he, you know, he. He, you know, he. really, of course, Adam is his heart and part of his heart, but he also has a spot in his heart for Lena. So having this kind of somewhat doomed, is it, won't it, you know, will it, they, won't they kind of thing going on. It was one of the fun things to explore. I hate keeping you,

keep using the word fun, but it is, it is fun to, to, to, to, to, make. these relationships test them test these relationships and see how far they will go yeah it makes it as a reader too you're just so torn you're like especially because you can kind of feel everyone's feelings and why they have these certain feelings so you're kind of just like oh man like i i understand lena's perspective we're not in dominick's perspective but you understand his as well um but to continue our use of the word fun because i was going to ask this thing. Was there a POV that you had the most fun writing or was it just kind of all of them? It was all of them. I loved the freedom of Meredith's point of view that she yeah, she doesn't

care. She doesn't, I mean, she does, but she doesn't, you know, you'll see, you'll see. But she was fun in the respect that she could say what she wanted to say and think what she wanted to think and there were fewer sensors. And I mean, the fire was fun just because I learned new things. It was, it was, you know, they took the most time, but they were also the most rewarding for me in a lot of ways.

Lina, I liked because I liked exploring the tension between her and Dominic, her and her mom, her and Olivia, and her and herself. I think that was probably the most, interesting relationship for me to mind was her, like you said, being stuck. She is stuck. And part of the reason other than the fact that she has these strong opinions about Adam that Dominic and her didn't work is she didn't really want to be happy. I mean, she feels this guilt about what happened

that night and her, quote, part in it, which you'll find out about if you read the book. But so she's living with this, you know, sense of loss, a sense of guilt and why, you know, she's like, how can I just let Grace go and let this go and be happy when it doesn't feel like I'm properly honoring my sister. I'm doing right by her. And so she was a lot of fun to write because she, I would say she was probably my favorite just because you do spend more time in her head. And she's also at the center of it. She is at the center of it. And it's not easy being in the middle, having been there myself in life at times.

It's not being at the middle of something when there are other pressures on the outside. It's kind of an awkward, uncomfortable place to be. So I like to explain that with her. But some of the fire scenes were really fun. I liked them. Yeah, it was cool reading them because it was like I was even learning, like, to your point that you were learning for them or to write them. It was similarly, I was like, oh, that's how that starts. And I hadn't thought of like sap in trees being super flammable until I was reading these chapters.

And I was like, well, and also. almost back to Twisters. I live in Indiana. So it's also like not a natural disaster that I have ever had to like prepare for or think about. It's more tornadoes is the only thing. So I thought it was cool and it made it. It just made it super cinematic and even more fun. There were just so many stakes for like each character. And then there's the stakes of like they can't do anything about wildfire coming toward them. Yeah. I forgot about tornadoes. I used to spend my summers with my grandparents in Kansas. And so, yeah, I have my fair share of tornado warnings and hiding out in the basement. So maybe that in the background is also

influencing my desire to work through all these natural disaster issues. Right. Next time it'll be an earthquake. Right. We'll love to see which would you do next. Well, I loved it. I have been talking for a while now about how pacing is what I love about thrillers. And I just, I loved how fast paced this one is. So for anyone who is looking for really fast paced, very summary read. I feel like this is a great one. But I've also been asking people at the end if they've read anything recently that they've loved. And if you haven't, that's okay too. you know i prepared for this question my mind goes blank which is the thing that always happens right yeah yeah i mean i i think of books that i've read a couple books back like california bear loved that um okay i loved um i i was fortunate enough to blurb um making collins next book um and loved that yes yeah i don't I don't turn anything away because, but it, there was a point in there that made me just like say, gasp and say like, shut up, Megan, that's not. And like, you, you fooled me. And I went to the

back and read the stuff leading up to it. And I'm like, oh, you totally got me. You totally laid the groundwork and you got me. So that one was a good one. I, I loved, in my dreams, I hold a knife by Ashley Winstead. Oh, yes. Um, and yeah. So I mean, I've, I've been yeah. Oh, and false witness by Karen Slaughter. I just finished that one too. So that's, oh, I haven't read that one yet. But I have heard good things. I mean, she's so great. She's so great. And I love, um, she does she does complicated sister relationships like nobody else. I love that dynamic. I mean, I kind of explored it and blood will tell, but I love having a complicated relationship with my own sister. I love reading about this. And she does such a great job of fully realizing these complicated

flawed characters and their humanity and their choices, good and bad. And I remember talking among my author friends, like, what makes a quote strong woman? What is that dynamic? And it's just all about agency that even if they are making the wrong choices, they're making it because of their own worldview. They're making it because of who they are in their life experiences. So nobody does that better than her. Yeah, I love that example because that's typically my complaint with a character is if they don't have agency. So I love that perspective that really that is what makes a strong female. I definitely agree with that. Where can people follow you to stay up to date with all of your natural disasters that might show up? I am Heather Chavez author on Instagram.

I believe are the same for threads. I'm not as active. I'm more of a lurker on threads, but I'm there. And then I have a Facebook author page as well. I would say definitely the most active on Instagram. And I have a website. Heather Chavez.com. Yes. Nice. Well, I will put all those links in the show notes so that everyone can find that. And thank you so much for talking with me about what will burn last.

Yeah, thank you for having me. It was fun.