Bookwild - Yasmin Angoe: Her Name is Knight

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

On this episode, I talk to Yasmin Angoe about her fantastic spy thriller debut Her Name is Knight.Check out the book hereInstagramHer Name is Knight SummaryHer Name Is Knight revolves around Nena Knight, codename Echo, a highly trained assassin for The Tribe – a clandestine international organization dedicated to the protection and advancement of the peoples and countries of Africa around the world. Her Name Is Knight is a propulsive character story and action thriller driven by retribution, passion, strength — and coming to terms with your own true self, regardless of what anyone calls you. Get Bookwild MerchCheck Out My Stories Are My Religion SubstackCheck Out Author Social Media PackagesCheck out the Bookwild Community on PatreonCheck out the Imposter Hour Podcast with Liz and GregFollow @imbookwild on InstagramOther Co-hosts On Instagram:Gare Billings @gareindeedreadsSteph Lauer @books.in.badgerlandHalley Sutton @halleysutton25Brian Watson @readingwithbrian 

Hi, my name is Kate and I love to read. Like, I was carrying books around with me before Kindles were a thing. So I decided to start a podcast where I interview the authors of some of my favorite books, ask them all of my questions so that I can read between the lines of the books. Hey, everybody. This is Kate on Between the Lines and I am here with Yasmin Ongo, the author of Her Name is Knight, which I read this year and was, totally obsessed with. I stayed up until like 2.30 reading it one night. It was not suspenseful. So welcome to the podcast, Yasmin. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You stayed up until two and I stayed up until two writing it. So hey, it all works out. That's funny. I believe it.

Because it's a longer book too, but I couldn't put it down. So this is your debut novel, right? Right. Yes. So kind of keeping that in mind, when did you know that you wanted to write a book or be an author? Like, when did that come to you? Oh, gosh. That's going to be like the traditional, I guess, author answer. I knew that since I was a wee little child. But yeah, honestly, I did know that since maybe my elementary middle school years. Because I was an only child of a single mom. And she's an immigrant. So we didn't have, I didn't have a whole lot of friends and things like that. So I was lonely. So books and writing and my cabbage patch dolls were my friends. And that was my entertainment and my babysitter. So since then is when I really developed the love and really wanted to be a writer. And I wrote all through middle school and high school and everything like that. That's amazing. So like were you writing like stories or did you even write like novels in middle school and high school?

Yeah, so I wrote my first, what I call a full-length novel. It was in, was it in middle school, maybe like fifth grade, sixth grade. And that one was like a bunch, it was about a bunch of woodland creatures that were trying to save their home. And I still have it. I wrote it on loose leaf paper with a blue big pen. And I still use blue big pens to this day. And so it's in my room right now. And it's all faded and the blue ink. is like blurry a little bit, but I always said, oh, one day I'm going to, like, actually, like, print that one because I kept it, like, that was my very first story. And then, in middle and high school, then I started writing about, you know, teen angst and stuff like that. So, yeah, I call them all novels, but they actually just fit into, like, you know, one of those one subject spiral notebooks because that's what I read. Yeah, that is so cool. And that you still, like, use the same pin now. I, like, I haven't written anything. I'm kind of trying, getting back into it, but it was the same thing, like, growing up, like, I was kind of similarly

out of loneliness with, like, just, like, write stories. And when you were saying that, it was like bringing back all these memories of, like, literally right hand writing, not typing like I do now. That's amazing. That's really cool. So, I mean, your writing process probably, you probably started kind of developing your writing process when you were younger. But what is your writing process like now, do you typically know the plot? Do you know the characters first? I've heard it both ways. Like, kind of what, how do you set out writing a book? Right. Well, so for her name as night, I kind of knew the character first. I knew that I was going to write about a woman who was really high up there, like, in a criminal organization. At that time, the organization, the tribe was going

to be like an actual, like, criminal entity. And she was going to be like, the godmother in a sense. But so I knew that. And then I kind of built the story around that. Then when I changed the objective of the tribe, then that's when like the story kind of like formulated from that. But most of the time I will have just an idea of like, you know, something that I'm really interested or that I heard like on TV.

And I was like, oh, I think I could like write a story about that. So most of my stories come from just an idea that kind of sparks off. and then I'll just kind of write, you know, a line, and I just did that this morning of, you know, something, hey, this is what I'd like to write about. And then I'll take the time to kind of to marinate and build that idea before I actually start doing any real work with. That's awesome. So then, so you kind of have an idea, kind of comes to you from different things. It might be like the character first or just like something you experience. So then when you get to like actually writing like all of the main characters for the book. How do you approach like getting to know your characters?

So I'll do like a character profile of them and it'll be pretty loose but like the main things that I kind of want to know like if this person is going to be like a jerk or if this person is going to be strong and I'll and I'll kind of fashion it. And that's what kind of helps me start. And then as I'm writing is when I really get to really know my characters and they, you know, just kind of float out how they want to be. And then I kind of go from there. Then I'll jot that down just to make sure that I remember it. But by that time, I pretty much have an idea of how that character is going to be.

So I won't really forget that they're supposed to be this kind of way or whatever. But I'll kind of know what they look like. I'll even have a name for them. And a lot of times their names will change in the middle of my writing process because the name also is something that's important to me. So it kind of will, if it doesn't jive by the middle of the book, then it changes into something that kind of sounds. That's really cool. I hadn't even thought of like that you could change a character's name.

Just kind of like as you get to know that, but that makes a ton of sense. So what specifically prompted you to write her name is Knight? Like where did that? I mean, you kind of said that you knew you wanted to write it about Nina, but where did like the inspiration come from? Sure. So the inspiration came really from. So this was back in 2011, 2012, and I, like I said, I had an idea that I wanted to write about, my next story that I'm going to write is about this woman's going to be a thriller. And she's going to be a crime, you know, mob lady or whatever. But then at that time, I'm really big on watching, like, a lot of thrillers and I read a lot of thrillers and things like that.

And I just really wasn't seeing people who look like me in that kind of role. And I wasn't seeing at that time women. And in general, in that kind of lead position where they're not the romantic interest or the damsel in distress or, you know, the Girl Friday. Do you know what I mean? So I was like, you know, I think I'm just going to write about somebody who looks like me, who's an immigrant, and who is able to do all these things that, you know, that all those people, Jack Reacher and Ryan and even John Wick and all of them are doing. but, you know, she's doing, she's a female, and then she's also a woman of color. And so that's kind of what set that off. And then also at that time, I had recently lost my father.

And so I really wanted to deal with, I was dealing with like the grief and, you know, some guilt for not being there when he had passed. And those all are things that come into play in the story. guilt and the relationship between daughters and fathers and family and things like that. So all of those things that I was dealing with, I just decided, well, I'm going to kind of write my emotions and these things that puzzle me. And so that's how all of those different elements got in there. Did I even answer your question? No, you did. No, it was a really cool answer because as you were saying it, I was like, you were just kind of saying, like, I didn't see myself in this genre, but I love this genre and then also like the circumstances of what was happening in your life. So it's kind of like

all kinds of things came together to help you write that story, which that's pretty cool. You were mentioning like Jack Reacher, those types of thrillers. I was going to ask you if you're a fan of like thriller books and movies as well. So it sounds like you are already. So that's probably where some of that was coming from. Did you like do anything specific to like learn how to write such great, like, action sequences. I feel like with your book, it, like, all felt, like, so realistic. Like, I like spy thrillers on TV, and I don't always feel like they translate in books, but yours did. So how did you learn how to write action? Thank you. Well, so I studied, you know, all of those. And I'm a very visual kind of reader. I like to be able to imagine what I'm

reading. And so that's why, I guess you'll see my books are always a little bit thicker because I want the reader to see exactly what I'm seeing. And I want them to be able to play like a movie in their mind through my words. And so with those action sequences, I love, you know, like I said, action and everything like that. So I'm, I'll be there and I'll be, you know, I'll look at all of the different moves and gestures that they make and all of these things. But I also wanted to try to make the seek, the action that she's doing realistic, you know, like she's not going to take on a thousand people at the same time and be able to like beat them all or you know she's not going to be climbing up a wall and doing all that stuff she's going to really try like that hand-to-hand combat

because I like that kind of realistic um fighting not that I've ever done it in my life but you know so I so I just kind of write it as I see and then I also when I'm writing it um then I'll actually even try to like act it out so you know I'll write it and then you'll see me like kind of doing some hand movements and I like to joke around because I'll do it and then my family will like walk past the door and they'll see me in like mid-action and they're just going to be like what are you doing and I'm like it's research don't bother me like I'm doing research right now so I think they're used to seeing me in very odd positions when I'm working that's so I'm like I think there's supposed to be a second book in the series so now when I'm reading that one I'm just

going to be imagining you like jumping around your office my leg up in the air and I'm doing all sort of things, yes. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. That's so cool. So I'm going to start asking more about the book. So at this point, I do like to tell people like, this is going to be the post-spoiler part. So if you haven't read the book already, go read it and then come back to this part. But now we're just going to dive into the book. So the book definitely covers some heavier trauma. the past timeline has a lot more pain than the present one does. Did you incorporate time hopping sometimes to kind of like get out of the heaviness of her past so you weren't always there?

Right. I definitely did that for the reader. I didn't do that for myself. For myself, I wrote, to me, it's two stories. It's two books and one. And so I wrote that way. So I wrote the befores all the way through from beginning to end because, For me, as a writer, I felt I couldn't write Mina in her present day as well as if I hadn't gone through her whole past first to kind of know where she would be, like her mindset and just her feelings and everything.

So I wrote that all the way through it. It was super heavy, like you said. And so it was hard for me. And I had to take breaks. And I had to, you know, talk myself through it and be my own therapist and things like that. And then I wrote the present. And so I built that up for myself because I knew, okay, she's really going to get like her come up and, you know, at the end. So that's what really kept me going.

And then when I wrote the present day, then that was what a, that's why you might, you know, feel really vindicated because I felt really vindicated because I, you know, she'd been through the ringer, you know. And even though it was me writing it, I still felt every single word that I wrote for her because, you know, she is, you know, an extension of me in a sense. you know, all of my characters would be. And so when I was creating it for the reader, I knew that I wanted to put, you know, I was going to scissor everything and I was going to put her befores in those critical moments so that the reader would understand in the present day why she might be acting this certain way in the present day because I just read or I'm about to read what happened to her at that time. that might be the reason why she's doing this one particular thing in the present day.

So I was a little bit more strategic after I had written, you know, both of them in how to splice them. That's really cool. It was actually kind of reminding me when you were saying you had to do some of your own therapy on yourself dealing with it. I had never really thought of how much a dual timeline approach can kind of even mirror what therapy is like because in therapy you're trying to learn why you're doing and why you're doing what you're doing in the present.

And so like if you could just have your like past lined up every time it matched what was happening, that would actually be helpful for anyone who was in therapy. Right, right. So with those timelines, though, some of that, I mean, you kind of just answered that. But there was like some parallels where the past and the present were really similar. So like started coaching Georgia self-defense in the present at the same time that she was in the past. And so it also did kind of feel like it was a story about like overcoming powerlessness. And so was it kind of intentional that you were showing like growing the growing and healing wounds in the present kind of while showing the wounds from the past as well? Absolutely.

Because I definitely in book one wanted to really cover Nina's growth and how she over these things. because when we meet her, she hasn't overcome. She's overcome them. She's compartmentalized everything. And she's only been able to do her job, like, as a robot, right? And so when she meets Georgia, Georgia, and she kind of goes off script and helps this girl. And she probably would have helped anyone. But this girl really, you know, how we meet someone who just reminds us of ourselves,

of our former selves or whatever. And so Georgia is around about the same age that Nina was when everything happened. And she just kind of sparks something in Nina like, hey, I remember this girl. And it's going to be someone that she hasn't thought of in like over 16 years is herself as this child. And so that kind of just sparks everything off for her. And that's why she feels so close to Georgia in that. Georgia also has lost the mother and she's very close to her dad. And she's kind of trying to figure out who she is and what she wants to do.

And also Nina hasn't had a kid in her life, right, in all these years. And so it's very different for her. And she's also kidlike in that sense. Like she's learning too. This is a different kind of adulting that's going on. And so let me figure out what that's like. And this girl is so perplexing. And so yeah, so Georgia was definitely her healing process and helping her to heal.

And I think I want to be a better person, not just for me, but also for this girl, because I think I can help this girl. And that's what, and, you know, I'm also talking about, like, found family. And so Mina and Georgia find each other and become that family for each other that they've been. Yes. Yeah, that was one of those really cool things about how you can have your family of choice, too, like, whether it's just because your current family isn't in a great spot or work because they're not alive anymore. You really can recreate a family around yourself. That was definitely very much there.

There's also kind of like a focus on how your life can feel that it gets kind of like bifurcated into before and after when you experience a traumatic event. It's one of my favorite quotes at the end that says she tried to find a way, she being Nina, to have what she deserved back in her life again because she was Nina Knight. She had shaped her after. She had made it her now. And most of all, she had learned to cherish every memory. had both the gifts and the curses. I love that. I've done therapy myself. So there's like been levels of like having to accept that I don't necessarily dislike the curses or the bad things that happen to me as well. So where you kind of like trying to go with the book just kind of like integrating

there or like as a theme that like integrating and accepting your past can like make your present even feel better. Well, yeah, because I had to accept, you know, my past and, and make those choices, too. I was, you know, going through a lot of life changes at that time. And I think that if I hadn't accepted how, like, this is just how it's going to be. So how do I live from it and move on from it, then I would still be in that spot. And we would just, it would be like a hamster wheel. You'll just never have any growth. Really something that I really wanted to like hit on is that, you know, You know, things are going to happen. And it's how it's, you know, that shapes us because it's to be something that hopefully

won't be repeated or we'll figure out how to. I mean, well, you can't stop death, right? But you will know next time maybe how you can help yourself to become, to get in a better place a little bit. Or what will, what it'll take for you to kind of get over that a little bit more and things like that. And so, and some things that are in our past help us to become a. better person, help us to become a different person, if not a better person. And so that's why,

you know, there are things in our lives that are defining moments. And from that is what makes you, you know, continue to make you, or is it what you want to be? If it's not what you want to be, then this is your moment to like, you know, make some changes. And so use those events in your life to decide what you want to be and who you want to be and how you want to be. And so that's what I had to do. And so I just, you know, that's what the character does. And I was, those were things that I wasn't sure about. And so I was exploring it myself. And so it really wasn't until the end of the book was when I actually realized, you know, hey, this is what I have to do. This is how I need to shape my life to make. I love hearing how much like what you were going through was like helping you as you

wrote it. That makes it like so much more personal too. Kind of with those other themes, there's definitely like a little bit of a theme of like misplaced guilt. So kind of like near the end of it, she's kind of talking about something that she had felt guilty about, or she blamed her brother for as well. And she finally says or thinks, Nina had eventually come to learn that she'd never been blamed either. She'd realized her guilt was self-imposed and needless. And one of the biggest hurdles with PTSD is often dealing with unnecessary guilt and how much guilt sticks with you. So in writing, Nina, did you research some of the effects of trauma or did that kind of, did you instinctively include it and it just happens to be there? Right. Well, that was definitely instinctual because it was,

she's going through survivors guilt and I was going through, you know, guilt of like not being there when my dad passed and guilt of what could I have done more when, and he was here, you know, to maybe have prolonged his life or to be that support that he needed, you know, when he was getting ill and things like that. So that was the extreme guilt that I was dealing with, you know, to be perfectly honest. And I still deal with it now. Nina is still going to deal with it because it never leaves you, you know, that guilt. But it's like I said, how you cope with it and remind yourself, it's not your fault.

It's not your fault. And so that's when she learns to remind yourself, it's not your fault. it's not your fault, but there are always going to be slipbacks where you're thinking. And so I had to say to myself, you know, Yasmin, it's not your fault. But I still can't help, you know, feeling like, what if. There's always going to be that what if. And so that was something else that I was like really exploring

and she would be exploring it too. And you just really can't help, you know, but to think like, why, you know, not do this? Why did I survive when all of my family didn't, which is what, like, Nina is thinking and why not me and what, you know, what could I have done differently? And so I just really, it was, it's hard. It was hard then. It still is hard now. And it's still going to be difficult for her in, you know, future books. Because honestly, that's not something that ever really goes, like I said. But it's something that you eventually, you know, kind of train yourself to keep going and to remember that this is just me,

in my down day. And this is me thinking this today, but tomorrow I'm not going to think this. And so that's how I got through it or how I get through it every day. It's a daily thing. And that's going to be the same for her. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. There's a lot of learning for myself to accept that all feelings are temporary. So especially if I don't ruminate on something, the feeling might be even more temporary.

Right, right. Like if I don't make it a big deal, maybe it'll actually go away and it's not a big deal. Right. And I mean, I still, I think that's, I was just thinking that earlier today. I was like, I was really thinking about this thing and you might need to stop thinking about it. And so it's really like really telling yourself and listening to yourself when you tell yourself to stop, really stop. You know what I mean? And it's easy for us not to listen to ourselves.

Maybe if someone else told us that, then maybe we would be like, okay. But it's hard for me sometimes to take myself seriously. I'm like, yeah, yeah, then you're telling yourself to stop, but do you really mean it? And I have to be like, yes, I mean it. Stop. And then you feel better, you know, a little bit better at least. And so, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

So you mentioned how she'll be in the next books. So it does mean that we have next books. And then what I wanted to know, so Georgia and court were kind of both her kind of like a family of choice. that developed in her present timeline. Are we going to see more of them in the second books? Are you able to tell us? Like, if you can't, that's fine. Right, right, right, right.

So we ended on with them on a question mark, right? Because so we're not too sure how that's all going to play out because not Georgia, but court and Nina are on two very different sides, right? He is a law person and she is, you know, we make our own justice kind of thing. And so I don't know how, well, I do know, but how, we don't know how, you know, they're going to come to that conclusion. One of them has to be accepting of like the other and see what the other is trying to do. And then they both have to really be respectful of what, you know, the other feels.

And so that's something that's definitely going to be explored in the second. book. And I hope that court and Nina can make a go of it. It will always probably be precarious between the two of them because of where they stand. And even though, you know, court might be like, okay, you know, maybe I can. You know, you still, if you've always been a person in a particular way, you always will still have like a kind of like, you know, thought of how things should be. And they've just lived two very different lives. So definitely we'll see more of Georgia, too, because I really love their relationship. And I think Georgia really humanizes Nina and really is bringing back all those human traits that Nina lost because of her experiences.

And she was just really a robotic shell of her former self. And so now all of those things are coming back to her and brought through Georgia. Yeah, that's kind of here. with parents that as their kid hit certain ages, sometimes that's how they're like going back and like thinking about what they were like at that age. And so it seems like that's definitely what's happening with her in Georgia for sure. My final question is, so the book was so focused on before and afters and how much can, how one moment can make such a clear before and after. How are you feeling in your after of becoming a published author?

Oh, that's a really good question. How am I feeling? I am feeling all the things, to be honest. Like, it's a daily thing for that, too, you know, because I'm very much a person. I'm an introvert and writing is a very, I mean, you know, because you, you know, you write as well. So very, writing is a very solitary thing. And so, but writers love to talk about their work, too, because we spend so much time with it. So I love that part of it. And then like, the published, the marketing and the publicity part, I'm not so much because I'm just like, you know, and I still feel, you know, when people say, oh, I like it. And so even when you were saying you stayed up until two, I'm like, really, girl, why? You know, because I always think about, you know, the time that it spent for me to get here. And I know that I love the book. And I am always very, like, surprised when people say that they like it, too. Because I, I just thought that everybody would think that I'm weird. And why do I? I have all these things going on in my mind, like my mom thinks. That's what she thinks. But,

but like, you know, I joke around and I tell people that writing and then when people read it, it's like, it's like I'm in a group session for therapy and I'm the only one sharing. Nobody else but me. And I feel like it's very not fair. Everybody else should be sharing because that's what a group therapy is, but it's not the case. And so it's, it's good. It's great. I mean, I would not change it for the world, but then it's also, you know, something that I get very intimidated by. And I hope that, you know, people will continue to enjoy the work that I produce because it doesn't come easy. And, you know, and it's really me pouring my everything into everything that I write. And so hopefully people will continue to see that. So I, and I appreciate you asking me to be on

your show and for your, for your really pretty lipstick and nail. that I've been noticing all day. I do. I kind of color coordinate everything. Yes, I love it. I love it. I'm like, I've done that too. But like, so I mean, I appreciate that because I get to meet people like you.

And I mean, those are the best things of this is that I get to meet so many wonderful people and kind of just kind of vibe off of them, you know, on shared likes and things like that. So I think that's the best. Yeah. That's what when you were saying it's a very introverted thing. I think because I'm like mega and. as well. So I think even your readers, not I'm sure there are extroverts that read, but like, I bet there are a lot of readers that are introverted too. So it's probably like kind of cool that

they're consuming it too because it's like I probably wouldn't start a podcast if it weren't about like books because I'm introverted. So it's kind of cool that introverts kind of like have something shared to talk about in that way. But was, was I seeing that your book was like up in Times Square? Was that what you were posting about too? Yes, yes, because the marketing team did that. And I was like, that's really cool. And so they, you know, the book cover was on a billboard in Times Square. It was there for the like month of December all the way through.

I think the ball drop. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, you know, like I just, I wish that I had known that a little bit earlier so that I could have made a trip there to see it myself. But they took pictures for me and sent it. And I just never honestly thought that, you know, that would ever happen. Like if a couple of people read the book, I was, you know, happy for that. But that, you know, they even believed in it so much that they, you know, got it on the billboard. And that it's been on some bestseller list is just really, it just blows my mind.

So, yeah, I was really. Yeah. Some of that, like, imposter syndrome at first that's like, I'm just writing my book. But then everyone's like, no, this is great. Yeah, that's exactly it. I still deal with that imposter symptom. That thing is a beast, let me tell you. It is so annoying. Yes. That's what I was even noticing with this. Like at first we start a podcast, you're like, oh, I'm not a podcaster. Like, not really. And then like, you do one and you're like, okay, that means you are. Then your imposter syndrome's like, what if you are? It's all about getting past that. Right. Awesome. So do you have, do you have a release date? I can't remember for the next book. The last I checked, I think they said September, maybe 23rd, but I'm not 100% on the actual date.

I just know sometime in September. Of this year? Yes, of this year. Nice. Okay, cool. So everybody can look forward to that in September. And then where can people find you or just kind of whatever you want to plug? Right.

So I'm on Twitter and my Twitter handle is at Yaz, Y-A-S-A-Rider. And then I'm also on Instagram. I'm just new on Instagram. So you might not see too many things except for like, you know, what, you know, repose, I guess. And that is author underscore. Yeah. So hopefully people go there so that they can follow you. And then hopefully we can talk about your second book here sometime after it comes out in September.

Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having you.