Boonta Vista - American Psychosis | Episode 1: Let's Roll

Episode Date: March 20, 2021

Boonta Vista's Andrew and Trashfuture's Riley are back with a brand new series about the lasting cultural impact of September 11. In the first episode they introduce the show and discuss Oliver Stone's World Trade Center, the commoditisation of tragedy, memorial NASCAR races and a two word phrase from that fateful day that lives on in cultural infamy.

We've entered a new era. Our military is powerful. Our financial institutions remain strong. Bin Laden is there. You're going to kill them for me. My fellow Americans, let's roll. Welcome to episode one of American Psychosis. My name is Andrew, and I'm here with my good friend Riley. That's right. We are, in a sense, back. The Boney Island Whitefish are riding again, but not as the Boney Island Whitefish, as an entirely new program that will be way less concerned with the goings-on of

season five of the show Bones, and instead with the goings-on of a season 205 to 4404 or so of America. Don't check my math. I don't care if my math is wrong, add someone else about it. Yes, that's right. You may know me as one of the hosts of the podcast, Wunderyster. You may know Riley as one of the hosts of the podcast, Trash Future. We are joining forces again for

a new series in which we plan to look at, I guess, the effect, the lasting cultural and psychic effect that 9-11 had on America and how it all came back out in, I guess, their most lasting and enduring form of culture, cinema and TV. It's the important parts. Yeah, the important parts that you can, where you can do the research by sitting on your couch and having a beer. That's right. I'm sure we will also be getting into, you know, music, pieces of writing, musicals.

Oh, certainly musicals. We have a lot of good fun stuff lined up. of writing musicals. Certainly musicals. We have a lot of good fun stuff lined up. You know what I think is really funny? I've been talking about this for a while. I've been thinking about this for a while. I feel like there is, I can tell you about culture after the financial crisis.

I can also tell you about culture in the 1990s. I cannot really tell you what culture was like between 9-11 and the financial crisis. I don't really know. It's this strange dead zone where you often forget that like, the Lord of the Rings sequel like one best picture. Where, they were just like, where you wonder kind of what was being produced that's sort of memorable and then you remember that it's because everyone went completely mad.

You remember Freedom Fries but there's a lot of other stuff going on that you might have forgotten. Yeah, American Beauty was winning Best Oscar kind of stuff. Although that was a bit earlier. Yeah, when I think about like things that were kind of, charting at that point as well. I look and it's just, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was th, was just, was just, was just, was just, was just, was just th, was th, was th, was th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. to, to, to, to, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th earlier. Yeah, when I think about like things that were kind of charting at that point as well, I look and it's just like, number one on the charts, Jarul. And I think, okay, not like, nobody's, nobody is pulling out and playing a full Jaruel album. It is absolutely not happening. JARUL isn't playing full JARUL albums. Yeah, absolutely.

It was also like, it was just, there was this period of sort of sustained economic prosperity that looked like it was going to go on forever, but that was like slowly rotting out from the inside. Well, sort of simultaneously, this strange innervation and fear of a people who believe themselves invulnerable, sort of then, okay, so I'll give you an example. An old friend of mine, he now works in a different kind of insurance, but when in the early 2010s, he worked in terrorism insurance.

And he, so basically what he would do is he would write policies, he was, it was at a Lloyd's syndicate. So in London, the insurance industry is such that like, Lloyds is actually, oh, there's Lloyds and then there's the Lloyd's insurance syndicates, which are all like, it's kind of different from the bank, which are all like these sort of little, the the the the terismismismismism, the their their, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, te.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. toe.e. toe. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, there's Lloyds, and then there's the Lloyd's insurance syndicates, which are all like, it's kind of different from the bank, which are all, like, these sort of little companies that are all sort of constantly writing insurance policies, either for one another or for other, other entities, and they can insure basically anything. Like, we know, there'd always used to be these stories that's who will do it. They will get the whole point is you can insure any outcome that will affect your revenue stream. And so he used to write political risk insurance focused on terrorism.

And he would have, and like, it was to the point where there would be like chicken farms in Idaho. That would be like, yeah, well, we need terrorism insurance. Yeah, just when you're talking about wide-ranging impact of an event, it's really on all levels. It's not just cultural, it's not just political. It was also financial and just, just in the mindset of a whole nation, like you're saying, people in like the middle of fly of a country saying, you never know. You never know, Al Qaeda, they hit the most important financial building in a the middle of fly of a country saying, you never know. Yeah, you never, I mean, you know, Al Qaeda, they hit the most important financial building

in America. What happens when they hit the most important chicken farm? Yeah, there could be an envelope full of anthrax coming to us. Or a lot of people loving to say, hey, I wish Al Qaeda would just try it in my town. Oh God. And, and of these are some of the things that we want to talk about during the run of this show. We are really interested in exploring, you know, those kind of mixed responses, particularly as they have exhibited themselves through music and cinema and things like that, because, you know, I've been listening to some music in the lead up to this. th th th this th th th this thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus cinema and things like that, because I've been listening to some music in the lead up to this that is like,

you know, songs inspired by 9-11, songs with lyrics that directly refer to 9-11. And I was pretty stunned by the breadth of genres that are getting into this. Because, you know know like you said everybody remembers freedom fries and everybody remembers like Toby Keith saying we'll put a boot in your ass it's the American way you know like those are the thi the thi the very reactionary country music hey I personally am going to to ki sama bin laden but the but there's this whole other other the very reactionary country music, hey, I personally am going to kick the shit out of Osama bin Laden. But there's this whole other realm of stuff that I just, I feel like,

kind of passed me by or I didn't internalize in the same way. And that's part of the stuff that's just fascinating to me is, like, it's much simpler to see how like hard right-wing conservatives would react to this much more predictable really I mean obviously it was horrible in a lot of ways but it's absolutely fascinating to look at how people who are culturally liberal would be Democrat voters and the states responded to this because it's. it's it's it's, it's it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it, it's, it. It's, it's it's a. It's, it's, it's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a that. the the the the the the to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the to. to. to. to. to. to to to to to to to to to to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's a. It's it's it's a. the it's it's it's it's it's it's a. the it's. the the the the the the the the the the the the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the would be Democrat voters and the states, responded to this because it seemed like a thing that they were really,

really, really, really not prepared to deal with an attempt to interpret in any way. And I will be repeatedly asking the question, should you have done that? Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's gonna be the theme of this podcast is, Andrew saying, should you have done that? Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's going to be the theme of this podcast is Andrew saying, should you have done that? Yes. What if you, what if you had not written that song? Well I mean, and this is another thing where there was a dissent article published sort of in the sort of aftermath, the immediate aftermath of this, of this period, that sort of prominent, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th of th of th of thoe of th of th of th, thi th of thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, the the, the, the, tho, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th... th, th... th. And, th. And, th. And, the the the the the the the the the thi. And, thi. And, thi, the, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean. thean, thean, thean, th sort of aftermath, the immediate aftermath of this of this period, that sort of prominent for essentially laying out the cleavages on the left.

And this the article, the article was essentially saying like it was essentially saying that the left obviously should be, um, should be pro war because of the emotional resonance of, because basically they say, well, yes, you may look at every other time we've done this and see the disaster, draw the comparisons to Vietnam and so on, but you have to understand the depth of feeling that the American working class has about all of this stuff, about being attacked and feeling unsafe, and the left should actually all of this stuff, about being attacked and feeling unsafe, and the left should actually go with this. And it's, I'll find the article again. I was reading it last night and just really, it was sort of quite struck by like how much

the language, and again, this relatively like mainstream left publication would now sort of just you know what it is it seems almost like a puppet theater version of politics where when you watch like I know when you watch like something like I don't know the first Star Wars movie or whatever you sort of you look at the special effects and it's like well I guess people in the 70s would have been incredibly impressed by that and then you look at the sort of at the same sort of political rhetoric around 2000, 2001, 2002, especially like as the left is working out how to respond to this. And you look, and it like a lot of the kind of pro-war, pro-intervention, we got to get revenge for 9-11, which is basically an Italian, NYC Guidovo voice tweet. It looks like this it is as sort of like people were impressed by this back in the time it looks it feels sort of so hokey it fits

and so sort of unsophisticated like it really really feels old and 20 years ago and so on and it clearly worked. Yeah I mean it's it's you know a thing popped into my head when I was thinking about a list the other day, which was, do you remember Michael Moore accepting an Oscar and saying, hey everybody, I actually think that invading other countries and doing wars is bad, and the audience at the Academy Awards booed him? Yeah, absolutely. And again, if you think of it, you know, like you said, if you're talking about sort of 20 years ago, like think now about the way that Republicans

talk about Hollywood and the liberal elite and the leftists and the communists and the socialists and everything. Just imagine, imagine, imagine, you know, the idea of a left-wing filmmaker getting up and saying war, bad actually, and everyone going, get this guy off the stage, get him out of here. And I suppose now that sort of it served its purpose, the war has happened, you know, effectively we're now, we're now in the forever war period, but it's also like you know politically it's basically just politically static you know it almost doesn't matter if there's a left-wing filmmaker who gets up and booze it because what's a fate of complete at

this point pretty much so on this kind of topic we thought that we would start off with a film that kind of lands squarely in the middle of a lot of this stuff that we're talking about because obviously, you know, there would eventually be films that were anti-war about these specific conflicts, but also there was a lot of very pro-war stuff, a lot of very jingoistic stuff. You know, Middle Eastern terrorists immediately became a generation's bad guys in cinema. Immediately overtaking the Euro terrorists of the late 80s and the 90s. And we never got them back. Never got them back. I feel like it's kind of Eastern Europeans now. Maybe. Yeah, there's a little bit of, well, there was a little bit of Eastern European or

like Balkan sort of criminal gangs. Yeah. And that was sort of in the sort of, when I think, I guess Americans got bored of, they got bored of always having Muslim terrorists threatening the nation, where now and it was Eastern European terrorists threatening the nation, where now it was Eastern European terrorists threatening your family. I think it, I genuinely think that it finally got to a point where although it's still not okay to say, what if we didn't have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's no longer cool to be racist about it in movies, basically.

So those are the kind of, the two ends of the spectrum of filmmaking, and we thought we would start off with a film, which kind of falls squarely in the center of this in a lot of different ways and produces as a result a very, very strange cultural artifact. And that movie is 2006's World Trade Center by Oliver Stone. And Oliver Stone as well. The guy who made JFK, the guy who made JFK, one of the most sort of, I look, confused, a searing but confused indictment of the military industrial complex. A platoon and anti-war polemic for based on his own experiences of what he saw in Vietnam? Yeah, and then here he and then he goes and makes World Trade Center, which is attempting to recapture

some of the, I guess you could say, indomitable spirit of the common man against sort of all odds as like platoon, but at the same time, is he's basically, he said over and over again that I, Oliver Stone, the sort of, one of the most like, you know, like old, old Hollywood liberal strong man basically, right? These sort of titan of liberal Hollywood, I am going to make an apolitical 9-11 movie because that's what the country needs in 2006. It definitely, like watching it, obviously you have to consider these things both

with the distance that we now have and also how they would have been received, you know, in context at the time. Because I was thinking to myself, you know, this is five years after 9-11 and it's clearly still such a searing wound in the nation's psyche that it's incredibly sensitive. And as soon as they announce that all they announced that all of us, it's, and, and it, and it, and it, it, it, they, they, they, they, they, the, they, they, the, they, and it, they, the they, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, they, and it, and the the the the the their, and their they, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, the wound in the nation's psyche, that it's incredibly sensitive. And as soon as they announced that Oliver Stone was making this movie, a lot of people freaking out, major newspapers running editorials saying that, whoa, you're having the JFK guy do this movie,

he's gonna be up there talking about how Bush did it and how jet fuel can't melt steel beams and all this kind of thing. He's gonna be up there talking about how they buried the 9-11 commissions report, you know? Yeah. And Stone, you know, and the financial backers of the movie went to great efforts to reassure everybody that it was essentially going to be a political. And it worked. It united red and blue

America. United red and blue America and saying, what's with this movie? One thumb up, raves purple states. And that's what was so interesting to me is that like, I have to say, like I understand that Oliver Stone is a well-regarded filmmaker or is at least a regarded filmmaker. Having gone back and watched several of his movies in the not too distant past, I am forced to say I don't actually think Olive Stone was ever that good. Like The Doors is a terrible, terrible movie. Born on the 4th of July is a terrible, terrible movie. What about natural born killers?

Natural born killers at least has the decency to be like just gonzo? Yeah, natural born killers. I think natural born killers is fun and JFK also very fun. Like making a very sort of making a compelling, making a movie that is sort of that compelling for that long basically as just a series of conversations between extremely drunk men and smoke-filled rooms. That takes some doing. Both, both highly controversial and very stylized films, right? This movie is doing its absolute damnedest. It is working as hard as it possibly can to ensure that it is neither controversial nor stylized in any way that anybody could take any form of offense from. It's sort of fitting that most of the action sort of takes place under the weight of like, I don't know, a

building's worth of rubble because no one can do anything. And they're just, it's just two men trying to stay awake much like the experience of the two men watching this movie. Heyo! Well, you are not wrong because, I mean, like, you know, one of the issues of this movie for me is that, so they, the, the movie starts off with Port Authority police officers, Nicholas Cage and Michael Pena, playing John McLaughlin and Will Jimeno, who were real, real people who got buried in the rubble. And basically, you know, it starts with them heading out at dawn to go and be first responders,

going about their day. They very helpfully humanize the cops by, you has where he's shooing a homeless man away from sitting on a park bench? Yeah, but he's doing because they're friends, you know, it's like, hey, we're buddies. We know, we, we, we, we, we shuck and jive, we get into it like, ah, don't let me catch a here again. And then he basically starts racially profiling two young men, but then he's distracted by the low flying of a plane, the low, thia thia th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thiii, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thinin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi, thin, thin, thin, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're of it. Yes, the shadow of the very literal. Again, it's one thing this film loves to do is this film loves to say symbolism, what if, what if the audience doesn't get symbolism, everyone's still too shaken from 9-11, what if the symbolism offends conservatives? We're going to put the shadow of the plane over the action. We don't want to risk any misinterpretation. Well, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. the. the. It's, the. It's the. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It, thi. It, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, th. It, th. It, th. It, the. It, the. It, the. It, the. It, the. It, the. It, the. It, the. It's the, the, the, the, the, the, the. the. the. the.e.s.e. the.s.s, the the.s, the.e.e.e. the.e. the.e. It's the shadow of the plane over the action. We don't want to risk any misinterpretation.

The other thing I sort of want to talk about as well is Oliver Stone's decision to make a to show like what to show normalcy, a normal life in New York. And it's it is people riding the train and, you know, people going to work and getting up and kissing their families. Did you notice that when people were riding the train to work in the morning, nobody was looking at a smartphone and they were talking to each other? Not a phone inside. It was that, but also, there's this real sense that as the audience are supposed to be like, ooh, they don't know it's 9-11 today.

Yeah, yeah, especially, like, I found myself thinking, you know, because they both get up and start going about their days and heading in towards work, and, um, Himeno is driving over one of the bridges in towards the island, you know, as the sun's coming up and he's listening to a country song about the sun coming up over New York City It's in a traffic jam. That's right. That's what you want to listen to a song about what's going on is you want to listen to you want to listen to You want to listen to you want to listen to you. Well, if you're a port authority. to to to to to to to the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their waking. their waking. their their their waking their waking their their their their their their their. their. their. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. their. their. their. their their their their their waking. their waking. their waking. their waking their waking. their waking their waking their waking their waking their waking their waking their waking their waking their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their waking their their the sun's coming up while you're going to work, you want to listen to a song about what's going on. You don't want to confuse yourself. Yeah. You are a port authority, police officer in your pickup truck. So yeah, he's driving along and then as he heads off down the highway, a subtitle comes up on the screen and says, September 11, 2001. And I found myself thinking, like,

I wonder what it was like to watch this closer to the event, you know, before, like, clearly we have passed the point now where 9-11 is allowed to be a punchline for things again. You know, people make jokes about it, all that sort of stuff. But like, was that, you know, like only five years out from it? Were American audiences watching this was like, was that a gut punch when that came up in the cinema? Back when people could go to the cinema?

Back before the world fell apart in a much more real way. Yeah. God, I guess. I mean, that's the, uh, when I got, what I sort of think th th th think th th th th th th th think, th think, think, think, think, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, thi, thi, th, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. th. th. th. th. th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, th............................. Like, th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, that, that, that, th. Like, th. Like, th. Like, tho. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I guess. I mean, that's the, when I got, when I sort of think about this, right? I think about like how, making a joke where 9-11 was the punchline was like edgy, shock humor. And I think about the fact that the most recent S&L after 9-11, I don't know if anyone remembers this, had Reese Witherspoon do as the host who like uncomfortably told like a two-minute long street joke, like just like so not one she'd ever that she'd written or that was written for her, just a very uncomfortable like joke about a polar bear with balls or whatever and just didn't mention what happened or whatever.

I suppose like your fucking S&L what are you going to do be like, uh, that was crazy. 3,000 people just died, a bunch of bitches. You know what they do if it was now? They'd have Kate McKinnon play a song on the piano and everybody cry together. Well yeah, it's because I think it was from the after 9-11 sort of as American society kind of you know realigned as one that was on kind of like a permanent defensive war with Klendathu basically is that that sort of the entertainment people be entertainers began taking very seriously the idea that they were actually speaking truth

through their, you know, through their reboot of the cone heads or whatever. Oh, like, but you could, you can chart like a really direct path, I think, from, you know, these events to John Stewart hosting the Daily Show and people saying, I actually get my real news from the Daily Show and people saying, I actually get my real news from the Daily Show and him occasionally breaking out to do like you know impassioned monologues. You can chart a path straight from that to now every time that there's you know like a mass shooting that's big enough to get discussed on American TV or or, you know, some sort, you know, some, you know, some, you know, like a mass shooting that's big enough to get discussed on American TV

or, or you know, some sort of horrible things that happens and you get to have like a tearful Jimmy Kimmel monologue. I wish he, I wish he could have, you get to have Stephen Colbert like weeping as he talks about how democracy is dead on his late night comedy program. Personally, I think Jimmy Kimmel should have done that while he was still hosting the man show with Adam Carolla. More tearful model, which he would have been at this time, I believe. That's true. My how our lives have changed. Yeah, Jimmy I just bursting through a time portal in 2004 and telling my 14-year-old self, Jimmy Kimmel went woke.

Huh? What? So, so, like, yeah, it's an interesting choice to me that essentially, like, within, I'm going to say the first five to ten minutes of this movie, they've had the planes hit the tower. And, and then the sort of, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th- th-the sort-the sort-their-their-their-their-14-14, thi-like, thirty-14-14, thirty-like, thirty-14 14 me thirty-14 14 14 14, thirty-14, thirty-14-14-14-14-14-14-14-14-14, thi 14, thi 14, thi-14, the first five to ten minutes of this movie, they've had the planes hit the tower. And then the sort of major sort of sees, like, act one, rather, question is, is a second plane going to hit the tower? Yeah, and like, and again, I kind of, I get the point in the, you know, ah, remember what it was like when everybody was trying to figure out what the

fuck was going on. I was talking to my wife about this because she was watching it with me and I was talking to her about remembering where I was. Because I think for people, for people my age, this is the, this is the JFK getting shot of my generation. This was the, where were you when you heard about this thing happening. And I was... I was going to say where, without wanting to age you, what were you doing when this happened?

So I was having my memory, right, of seeing this on the news at nighttime. And my wife was like, I remember watching it on the news in the morning. And I said, both of these things can't be right, because we live in the same country. So we did a bit of a bit of thinking, a bit of looking at time zone differences between here and New York in September. And it turned out my memory was more correct than hers, as correct as a memory can be, which is that my memory was that I had come home from like being out somewhere with my family like out of dinner or something like that. I would have been about 18 and 19 at the time and so you know we'd we'd been out and come home and it was

like after 11 o'clock and somebody put on the TV and there was this news on and the World Trade Center was there with a big smoking hole in it. And so I remember that I was watching it live at the point where the newscasters were like, we think a plane has accidentally crashed into the World Trade Center. And then seeing the second one hit live, and hearing the newscasters freak out. And having that realization of something, something very big and fucked up is happening right now. And, um, so, so you know, I understand the compulsion to kind of portray people seeing this stuff

happening and trying to figure out what's going on. But basically in the first, you know, ten minutes of the movie, the planes have hit the towers. These cops have suited up and decided to go in and try and evacuate people. And then the towers have collapsed. One of the towers has collapsed on them. And almost all of them are killed, except for three of them, who are trapped in the rubble. And that is where they will remain for the rest of the film.

Yep. The issues that this causes... Trying to fall asleep. Now, the issues the issues the issues the issues the issues the issues the issues the issues th th th th thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thoes, thoes, thus, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes have thoes have thoes have thoes have towes have towl, towes have towes have towes have towes have tops. tops. tops. tops. thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thus, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thooooosan. C. Cops, tops, tops, tops, tops, tops, tops, tops.a. Cops. Tops. Tops. Cops, trying to fall asleep. Under a lot of stuff. Yeah. Now, the issues that this causes, like, for a film, is that you have given us virtually no time to establish the actual characters, you know, what these guys are like, what they're about, and why we're supposed to care about them. But the answer is, you're supposed to care about them because they're about and why we're supposed to care about them, but the answer is you're

supposed to care about them because they're cops. And they're not, and how Oliver Stone establishes that is long, almost, almost loving shots of civilians walking away from the catastrophe and then the cops walking into the catastrophe. That's right. And there's constant and shot and just shot after shot and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the cops the the the the the cops the the the the the the the cops cops cops cops cops cops cops. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the then the cops walking into the catastrophe. Effective. Right. And there's constant and shot and just shot after shot and put in a minute 15 or so of all of these sort of civilian street of just constant juxtaposition of the civilians walking from right to left. So you sort of are immediately off put by them because that's not how movement's supposed to go.

And then the cops walking left to right correctly into the building sort of do their duty. And meeting, and again, almost like you can also see like, like the writing of this sort of, I guess in Britain you'd call it blokey, sort of gentle ribbing of one another as they're like, oh, I didn't want to save all the fun for you. And so we're just putting on accents that are so New York that they become Boston. Yeah, yeah, and that's kind of the issue, right, is that effectively, every character in this movie, yeah, and that's that's kind of the issue right is that effectively Every every character in this movie Well, there are two characters in this movie. There's a lot of different actors, but there's two characters and The two characters are New York cop and cop's wife

And those are the two characters basically. Oh, I think I lost you Nobody has any individual motivations or internal life or anything like? or anything like thi, thi, every, every, every, every, every, th. th. thi, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, thi thi, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, thi thi thi. thi. the the the the the the their, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th are the two characters, basically. Oh, I think I lost you. Nobody has any individual motivations or internal life or anything like that. They are either a cop who is currently pinned under the rubble of the World Trade Center and would like to get out. Or they are a cop's wife who would like to know where her husband is and is stressed out about it. There is a scene early in the going, which I thought was an interesting tight rope walk from from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, the the the the the the the their their their, their, their, their, their, or their their their their their their their their their their their, or, or, or their their their, or their, or their, or their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thiiiii. And, thii. And, thiiii. And, their, their, their, their, their, their, it. There is a scene early in the going, which I thought was an interesting tight rope walk from Oliver Stone, where Nicholas Cage has gathered his squad of cops and is looking for volunteers to go into the building. And this is the faithful moment that Jimeno, Amoroso, Pizzullo, that a bunch of these cops

put their hand up and step forward and say, I'll go in. And it's really interesting to me because he's trying to say, here are the brave ones. These are the most selfless people who put their hand up and said I'm going to go into the danger here while the other ones kind of look a bit a bit you know cautious about it, you know, they're not leaping to put their hand up. But at the same time he's not doing it in a way that says the cops who didn't do it are cowards. So all the cops are heroes because

that's the deal. If you're a cop who was in New York on 9-11 you're a national hero. But somehow it's just kind of oh the cops who said yes I'll do the thing I'm being asked to and put the hand up and stepped out are like you're especially heroes. But the ones that just went, uh, they just, they just dis- they're just, the the the their. their. their. their. their. their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their are like, you're especially heroes. But the ones that just went, uh, they just, they just disappear from the movie at that point. So it's, it must, must be very difficult to try and portray some cops as more heroic than others without painting them to be cowards. But that's a tight rope that he's really trying to walk here, you know? Yeah, well, it's at every, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, they, oh, oh, oh, they, oh, they, they, oh, oh, oh, they, they, they, oh, oh, they, they, oh, oh, they, they, oh, they, oh, they, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're just, they're just, they're, they're, they're. But that's a tight rep that he's really trying to walk here, you know? Yeah, well it's at every, oh they would have gone in but they didn't have the right training.

I mean again, for me, the thing to remember as well is the political context of when this film was getting made, because, you know, it's 2005, 2006, like this was the beginning of the story about how the American government has failed the first responders. And I think there was this idea that this was something that like you could make bigger than you know just your opposition to, I don't know, who was it, John Bainer, I think at the time, you could essentially, you could, e'er, your opposition to, I don't know who was it, John Boehner, I think, at the time, how you could essentially, everyone in America could agree that from the furthest left to the,

to a communist to a fascist, right? You could, you could agree that the 9-11 first responders should be, you know, fairly compensated. And I think, you know, the point that Stone is making here as well sort of fits into this by by pointing out, number one, every cop and, and, and, um, every, every police officer is a hero. Every, every firefighter is a hero. And because they went the other, they walked, they went left to right when all the sort of, you know, pussy civilians are going right to left, there to be saved by the heroic police officers essentially. And he really focuses on like long lingering shots of a hero's coughing with, um, yeah, there's, there is a lot of first responders coughing in this yeah first responders love to cough the majority of the movie

winds up taking place with the the two surviving cops played by Nicholas Cage and Michael Pena pinned under rubble for almost all of the movie, almost the entirety of the movie with the occasional cutaways to their wives and families played by Maggie Gillenhol is the pregnant wife of Michael Pena's character and Maria Bellow is playing Nicholas Cage's wife in the pregnant wife of Michael Pena's character. And Maria Bellow is playing Nicholas Cage's wife in the most distracting blue contact lenses I think that I've seen in many a year in films. Like she looked like Jason Mamoa as Aquaman. It was absolutely wild. You know when like, when contacts aren't just bright

that they look like, it looked like her eyeballs had been directly painted onto with a brush. I could not stop looking at it and thinking about it. Absolutely wild. But they were upset. And the first respite to spend a lot of the time hoping that they're going to get out of there and everything. And I just couldn't stop asking myself over and over again, why make this movie?

Why make this movie? It makes me think of W? Did you ever see W? I didn't see W actually. I'm sure we're watching for this series. Well, I saw W at the movies when it was out. And it was, I just remember being struck by how bizarre it was for Oliver Stone, again, all of a stone, to make this like bizarrely uncritical paint by numbers biopic of George W. Bush. It was so weird like Josh Brolin was very good in it everybody else in the film was just doing an impression of Dick Cheney or

Condoleezza Rice you know. Brolin's very good but I was also just like, why thi. doing an impression of Dick Cheney or Condoleezza Rice, you know. Brolin's very good, but I was also just like, why did you make this movie? It's like he got onto some form of contrarianism that is like, ah, everybody thinks that I'm a controversial filmmaker, I'll show them. Yeah, well, I'm really weird. I couldn't understand what the point of making it really weird. I couldn't understand what the point of making it was, and I couldn't understand what the point of making this was, other than,

like, you can say, you can be very trite and say, well, the point of this is to honor the ordinary heroism of the first responders who went into this building and were immediately squashed by it. I don't know that I needed a two-hour long film to convince me that it would be so, like that it would be shitty to be pinned under the world trades and its rubble. But remember, remember what the political environment was in the state in the late 2000s. You had this idea of, you had this idea of either, of being pro or anti-political, to-a, to-in, the-in, th-in, th-in, th-in, th-in, th-in, th-in, th-in, th-in, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, thin, the, thin, thin, to-in, to-in, to-in, to-in, to-in, to-in, thin, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thin, thin, thin, thin, the, the, the, the, to-w, to-wwne, to-wne-to-wne-wneuuu. to-wo-wnee, to-wo-wneed, thin, thin, thin,. You had this idea of either of being pro or anti-Bush. You had this, you had what appeared to be the beginning of like the be the fault lines being laid for what would become the intractable divisions in American politics going forward. I mean the idea that these divisions sort of started with Obama or started with Trump,

I think, is something that a lot of people think because they don't remember the period between 2001 and 2008. And there is essentially, yeah, there's essentially this forgetting that a lot, like, if most of these people are just basically, these divisions are more or less politically static, and that the approach of the old-time Hollywood liberal, whether that is someone like Oliver Stone or whether that's someone like John Stewart, is to attack the division because they wanted to be above the fray.

Right? Yeah. And so that's why, that's why sort of Oliver Stone ends up basically turning himself into a small sea conservative filmmaker, because he doesn't know how to handle what appears to be where he doesn't know how to handle a situation where he doesn't have like a clear bad guy because like for most of Oliver Stone's films before this one the clear bad guy is the

American intelligence community in the American Imperial War machine in the Cold War right that is sort of overthrowing governments and undermining its own values at home and the home and the thoomorrow. And he thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the the the the the th, um, um, um, the the the the the th, um, um, um, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the Imperial War machine in the Cold War, right? That is sort of overthrowing governments and undermining its own values at home and mistreating its domestic population. And again, it's a correct, that's a correct position. But then when America is attacked and there are stakes for American civilians, essentially beyond just getting drafted and being sent to go do platoon, more or less, when there was those stakes are for American civilians and the bad guy isn't

the American military industrial complex, the bad guy is someone else, then he has to reckon with his view of America as a villain, basically, or so not America as a villain, basically. Or, so not America as a villain, but elements of America as a villain, because those elements of America are now striking back at the most recent villain in America who happens to not be in America. And so, just, and so he is, he's sort of unable to take aside because he's unable to reconcile that. And so, you know, what ends up happening is the role of Oliver Stone is basically taken over by, I don't know, Adam McKay, I guess. Well, it's, it's, yeah, it has like a very strange kind of committee decision feel to it.

Yeah. It kind of makes me a thing in a weird way of a parallel with a parallel with Dunkirk? Have you seen Dunkirk? I have. Another film I did not care for. I guess the conceit of that film that was supposed to be interesting was a war movie where you never see the enemy because you know that's what it was like. It was it was scary to not know if someone was about to bomb you or straf you in a plane or whatever. And so you never actually see the other troops or anything. And you have kind of a similar effect here, where it's like, this thing has happened,

this terrible, terrible act has happened. And we don't talk about it at any point in the movie. Because within the context of the movie, none of the characters know what's happened or anything like that. So we're confining it to a very specific context. We're confining it to like a 48-hour period. And it is just really weird.

The whole thing is that the movie is so, so carefully calibrated to avoid offending anybody. Like you can't offend any cops, you can't offend survivors, you can't offend families who had loved ones die in the event. But at the same time, it also seems like it's very deliberately been stripped of any sort of mordlin sentimentality so that he can't be accused of like milking a tragedy. I think they were already so conscious of being accused of the film being a cash grab before making it, that it, like I said it's just been so, so carefully designed to, you know, be devoid of ways to

be criticized that it is just, it's completely soulless, it's completely by the numbers, and all has this sense of like completely foregone conclusions all the way through. The most interesting character in the movie to me is Michael Shannon's character. Absolutely. Absolutely. Dave Carnes is the most interesting because it is the character that clearly Oliver Stone respects the most because the story is all the is full of civilians sort of fecklessly saying that they want to help and sort of, you know, again, just like, sort of

emptily gesturing and oh we should go down there. No, it's too dangerous. Then Michael Shannon, Dave Carnes, going, a former Marine who now works as an accountant, walking out of his job, getting a buzz cut so he looks like a serving Marine and putting on his uniform so he can like sneak in and be the good civilian more or less, or the good civilian is a former troop, to go in and essentially set in motion the chain of events that cause these two guys to be rescued from the rubble under which they are being compressed. The thing about, Karns is that I'd say he has, if anything, if anything, if anything, the most, the most, the most, the most, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, their, the, the, the, the, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, the, the, the, te, ttoe, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, the rubble under which they are being compressed. The thing about Carnes is that I'd say he has, if anything, the most sympathetic portrayal in this film, of anyone not sort of under being compressed under Rebel. And the real Dave Carnes refused to cooperate with the film

because of Oliver Stone's criticisms of George Bush in the preceding five years. Now, can I read to you from a profile in Slate magazine that came out on the one-year anniversary of the September 11 attacks? Because the character as he's presented in the movie to me is the most interesting to me because he seems psychotic. Oh yeah, although mean although to be fair that's just that's just Michael Shannon as well. He's very good at playing guys who seem crazy. So he's you know when when the attacks are on TV he is in a suit in his accountants office you know everybody else is standing around they're all watching it on TV and he is like a full head and shoulders taller than everybody else in the office and he announces to his assembled colleagues, you may not know it yet but this country is at war and just walks out of the building and immediately

gets himself a buzz cut and goes to New York. So this is from this profile, came out a year afterwards. Only 12 survivors were pulled from the rubble of the World Trade Center after the towers fell, despite intense rescue efforts. Two of the last three to be located and saved were port authority police officers. They were not discovered by a heroic firefighter or a to'c-o'er the towar. They were discovered by Dave Karnes. Karnes hadn't been near the World Trade Center. He wasn't even in New York when the planes hit the towers. He was in Wilton, Connecticut, working in his job as a senior accountant

with Deloitte. When the second plane hit, Karnes told his colleague, we're at war. He had spent 23 years in the Marine Corps infantry and felt it was his duty to help. Karns the their their their their their tolk. K K K K K K K Kidd their th. Kidd their their th. Kidd is th. Karns. Karns. Karns. Karns. Karns. Karns t. Knak. Kn't tapykew. thau. Hea. He was thau-a. He was tmalt. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He's is is is is. He's is t. He's was t. He was ttauuu. He was ttttote. He was was was tot. He was was was ttot. He was was was t t tote. He wase. He wase. He was t t boss he might not see him for a while. Then he went to get a haircut. The small barber shop in Stamford, Connecticut near his home was deserted. Give me a good Marine Corps squared off hair cut he told the barber. When it was done he drove home to put on his uniform. Karns always kept two sets of marine fatigues hanging in his closet. It's kind of weird to do, he said. I agree, Dave. But it comes in handy. What the fuck does it come in handy for? This. This. Yeah, what if there's a terrorist attack and I have to go pose as a Marine so I can get past the barriers, keeping

the general public out and, you know, be the inciting force of the rescue of the 18th and 19th people pulled out of the rubble. I always have to keep my Marine Corps uniform around because what if that happens? And I feel like much of much of history, much of history has just been to like vindicate the crazy assumptions of Karns. Next, Karn stopped by the storage facility where he kept his equipment. He'd need repelling gear, ropes, the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their 19anteenseantantantantantantinteens and 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19anananannenenenenedeenths and 19 19aned 19aned 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19 19. their people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people their people their their their their their their their their canteanteanteanteanteanteanteanteanteanteanteanteanteantes, their cantes, their cantes, their canteantes, their canteanteanteanteanteanteants canteans their canteans their canteans their canteens of canteens of canteens of canteens of their their their their their their their their their their their their their ces stopped by the storage facility where he kept his equipment. He'd need repelling gear, ropes, canteens of water, his Marine Corps K-bar knife, and a flashlight, at least. Then he drove to church.

He asked the pastor and parishioners to say a prayer that God would lead him to survivors. A devout Christian, Karnes often turned to God when faced with decisions. Finally, he lowered the convertible top on his Porsche. This would make it easier for the authorities to look in and see a Marine, he reasoned. If they could see who he was, they'd be able to zip past checkpoints and more easily gain access to the site. For Karns, it was a quote, God thing that he was in the Porsche, a Porsche, 9-11 that he prey on it.

He had no choice but to take it that day because his mercury was in the shop. Driving the Porsche at speeds of up to 120 miles per hour, he reached Manhattan after stopping at McDonald's for a hamburger in the late afternoon. I mean, just thoult stopping for a hamburger and stuff, just... It's sort of a normal... I guess what's weird is how normal sort of elements of his day seemed as well, just thought it's stopping for a hamburger and stuff, but... I suppose you do... I'm going to get myself a buzz cut. Fetch my big knife.

So they went, dug these guys out, and like you said, you know, he declined to be involved in the movie. However, and then I went to McLaughlin who the their their their their their their their their their their thuilluclin, thu involved in the movie. However, Jimeno and McLaughlin, who were the actual survivors, were both involved in the movie, both received payment, and both have cameos in the film. The ultimate honor. See, even the first respond, see, the first responders, they're smart enough to like Oliver Stone and get involved with this film. So not everybody was happy about it, particularly the widows of some of the cops who did

die, who said things like, quote, I don't need a movie to tell me that my husband was a hero. And my husband saved your lives. How are you going to do this to him? So, there's a lot of accusations sort of flying around pre and post this movie about it being a cash grab. And again, I have to ask myself, like, in some ways, is this, is this like the American cultural equivalent of the way they have to like make another Spider-Man movie that nobody wants because otherwise the rights lapse and then there's

just some money sitting on the table that somebody could have had. The rights to 9-11? Not the rights to 9-11, but just the basically like, hey, if we don't make a movie out of it, someone else will and maybe they'll get paid money. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, like, like, like, like, like, I, like, I, I, like, I, like, like, like, I, like, I, like, I, like, like, I, I, like, like, I, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, not, not, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, like, their, like, their, like, their, their, their, their their their of it, someone else will, and maybe they'll get paid money. Yeah, I mean, I think asking sort of, see the thing is, I think asking whether it's a cash grab is an interesting question, but also sort of the wrong one, if only because the only way to produce culture that's sort of, you know, consumed by more than, you know, five guys is to sort of, is to enter it it it it it it it it it the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th.. And, th. th. th. th. to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to, to, to, to, thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th.... And, th. And, th.... And, th. And, th... And, th. And, th.. And, th.. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. to, th. th. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thin. th. th. th. five guys is to sort of enter it into the sort of the culture

industry and to have it be a piece of cultural production and an artifact of an artifact with a balance sheet basically otherwise no one sees it because in order for sort of the distribution mechanisms of our system to then sort of you know to make it hat to put it out there as a byproduct of the distribution mechanisms of our system to then sort of, you know, to make it out there, as a byproduct of that, there must be the flow of money, right? So if Oliver Stone wants to make a point about this, there's no way really to do it without being a cash grab, because if it's not a cash grab, then it won't be made and no one will see it. So it's one of these things where it's like, where it's impossible to sort of try to say something sort of significant at a mass cultural level level without also being deeply cynical,

which is why I think sort of so much of the cultural response to this event was so weird because it had to be led by marketing in some way. Yeah, which is again just a bizarre thing to think about. So the other marine that are paired up with Dave, Dave Carnes, also I believe wasn't actually a marine at the time, two guys independently decided to pretend to be Marines to sneak onto the side and bumped into each other. And started a great American tradition of pretending to be a Marine. So the other guy was Jason Thomas, right? And this guy did not come out

until significantly after, right? They found Dave Carnes like a year later, but Jason Thomas did not reveal himself until like five or six years later. He was dropping his daughter off at the home of his mother on Long Island when she told him about the attacks. Despite having left active duty in August 2001, he drove to Manhattan to assist in the efforts, telling the associate of Press, someone needed a help, it didn't matter who, I didn't even have a plan. All I have all this training as a Marine and all I could think was, my city is in need.

As of 2013, Thomas is serving in the United States Air Force as a medical technician. Also they portrayed him with a white actor when he is black. Yes, that's that's the other. Yes, that's that's that's thi. Hea. Hea, thi, thi, thu, thu, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thi, thi, I'm thi, I, I'm thin. I'm thin. I'm thin, I'm th. I've th. I've th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I I I, I I I I I I I I, I, I I I I. I I I, I I I. I, I I. I, I I. I, I, I th. I th. I th. I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I've th. I've th th th th th th th th th th th th thooo'a'e th th tho'ean. I've th tho-a. I've that that's the other thing. Whoops, oopsie Daisy. Pobody's Nerfict. Yeah, that's right. Especially not Oliver Stone. He also featured on a 2007 episode of Extreme Makeover Home Edition. Were they doing an extremely patriotic version of Extreme Makeover Home Edition? Well, apparently he moved his wife and four kids from New York to Columbus,

and the house they bought started falling apart. And so the show intervened to help a patriot. This is, this is kind of the point that I was coming around to when I was thinking about all this stuff, is that apparently there is only one final destination for everybody involved in a national tragedy, and that is to be in a movie.................. I. I. I. I. I. I. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, tragedy and that is to be in a movie or on television. Yep. That is the highest honor, like you said, that can be bestowed upon an American. It's to be permanently memorialized in an Oliver Stone film or an episode of Extreme Makeover Home Edition. If Oliver Stone gets your race wrong, then Extreme Make Over Home Edition is going to be there to make sure you're represented properly in the sort of Grand Book of Deeds of America,

which is reality television that was there to break the writer's strike. Now this takes me to the story of Todd Beamer was one of the passengers who was on United Flight 93, which was also made into a film by to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the film the film to to the film the film the film the film the film to the film the film to to the film to make the film the film the film the film the film the film the passengers who was on United Flight 93, which was also made into a film by Paul Greengrass, and Todd Beamer was portrayed by an actor in that film. He was one of the passengers who kind of grouped together and decided that they were going to storm the cockpit and take over the plane. He used to like, you know, the credit card phone things that used to have in planes. Yep. Swipe a credit card th th th th th th th th th th th th th th and th and th th th and th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thoom thoom thi thi thoom thoom thoom thoom thoom thoom tho tho the the the the the the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to the to toa. the toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. to the the the the the the the the. He used like, you know, the credit card phone things that used to have in planes? You can swipe a credit card and start calling from an air phone, much like John McLean's wife in Die Hard 2, Die Harder. And so he called down trying to get a hold of his wife, obviously could not get through, but instead they put him through to GTE Airphone supervisor

Lisa Jefferson and told her that the group was planning to jump on the hijackers and fly the plane into the ground before they can follow through with the plan. At this point I will say this is the thing that gained Todd Beamer and these passengers their legendary, as people who gave everything to avert a terrible disaster, I will note that George Bush had already given the order to shoot this plane down at this point. So he then recited the Lord's Prayer and the 23rd Psalm with Jefferson on the phone, and then told her, if I don't make it, please call my family

and let them know how much I love them. Then she heard some muffled voices, and Beamer clearly saying, are you ready? OK, let's roll. And those were the last words that she heard over the air phone. Now because America is the country that it is, let's roll as a phrase then became wildly ingrained into the American psyche. I was not really aware of the extent of this, were you?

I mean, I was aware that this one phrase became significant, but I don't think I was sort of ready for the scale. It became significant, particularly after George Bush used it in a speech, used it in a speech to AmeriCorps volunteers, and he also used it again during his 2002 State of the Union address. The Axis of Evil address, in fact. So even though this was a phrase that was already in very common use, a bunch of people immediately started to try and claim it as a trademark.

However, the Todd M. Beamer Foundation was granted a trademark for use of the phrase relating to quote pre-recorded compact discs, audio tapes, digital audio tapes, and phonograph records featuring music. And let me tell you this, boy was there music. Are you ready to hear a little sampling of American releases prominently featuring or centered around the phrase,

Let's Roll. Let's go. Let's roll, in fact. Wake up America, there's a battle to be won. Wake up America, till you're on the night. Let you roll America, as the good Lord's on our side. Wake up America. It's Tuesday morning. Come on. Let's roll, that's wild, that's right, that's right. That's wrong, that's why, and promise you're the world's mind.

Sacrifice God's life. At September. We still hear your battle across highway. Okay, let's tell. These are all issues we've discussed broadly and fully within my administration. Tonight, I want to share those discussions with you. And in skies over Pennsylvania, Todd Beamers stood the test. And another quote was added to that hallowed list. And in skies over Pennsylvania, Todd Beamer stood the test.

And another quote was added to that hallowed list. Let's roll, that's roe. Honey, you know that I love you. Let's go, the's the'rown. Time for playing games is through. Whoo! They did a drum and bass one, huh? They sure did.

Imagine making like an upbeat song about telling your wife goodbye before you crash a jetliner into the ground. Yeah, because then at that point it's a love song to America who's about to be killed by a mysterious force who needs to be protected. That's the wife in all those songs of using Let's Roll. The wife is America who is to be loved. I think what really struck me when I was putting that together was, you know, like we were saying before about like, you know, we all remember like Freedom Friars and Toby Keith and shit. But like, you know, in that list you had like Melissa Etheridge and Neil Young, like the, thethe the breadth of artists

who felt the need not only to try and tackle either thematicly or directly 9-11 through lyrics and boy are we going to get into that in a future episode. But in this specific case we're talking about like that phrase feeling the need to get into that in a future episode. But in this specific case, we're talking about like, that phrase, feeling the need to roll that particular phrase into it. There's so many examples of it, and from right across the spectrum, ideologically of different artists. Well, because you can't use just symbolism, it has to be the literal thing. And of course, it was not confined to music, because, hey, there's all kinds of people out there

that you can trademark this phrase too. It was on one of the patches of the helmet of the main character in the game Ghost Recon, Future Soldier. It was in Counter-Strike Global Offensive that comes up on the screen right before you start. In the 2002 College Football Season, the Florida State Seminoles used Let's Roll as their official team slogan. Everybody got mad at them, but then don't worry, they got an officially licensed trademark from the Todd M. Bema foundation. NASCAR driver Bobby LeBont drove a 9-11 tribute car with the words,

Let's Roll on the hood of his stock car in the 2002 MNBA All-American Heroes 400. So you can see that basically, no matter what happens, at the end of the day, you will be put into a professional sport onto a TV show, into a movie or the clumsy lyrics of an adult contemporary pop song. Or a drum and bass song. There's one thing I wanted to read also before we we roll out, which is Oliver Stone saying why he made this movie. This film is a memorial. Its function is to remember, because believe it or not in America,

many people are forgetting about 9-11. Never forget. In 2006, people were like, hey, what happened? What happened with this overwhelming sort of cultural, just, we are being blanketed in the cultural rubble of 9-11, and everyone's just forgetting that they're under this, um, under, under all of these, you know, the fragments of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the cultural rubble of 9-11, and everyone's just forgetting that they're under this, under all of these fragments of the ideological world trade center, if only because it became so pervasive and so all-consuming that you sort of forget,

that all you could see was the ideological rubble of the trade center. You couldn't see anything else. And so, Oliver Stone begins to worry, because you can't of the Trade Center. You couldn't see anything else. And so for all of Oliver Stone begins to worry That because you can't see the World Trade Center anymore that everyone's forgotten about it But what he's failed to realize is that America has been inside the whole time and that's why you can't see it by thin. By thinking about the World Trade Center too much have we been thinking about it not enough? Oliver Stone says yes. Well I think that is it for our first episode. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you so much. Oh, for breakfast I had two pieces

of sourdough toast with peanut butter and coffee out of the orange mug. I'm not going to take breakfast update from you. I had eggs and bacon, a piece of toast. Some grilled tomatoes from the garden. Oliver Stone says delicious. You can't love it. No good decals are funny. And I don't mind being here now. We've been boy. I've had that pleasure for years and years. Now, I never was a sinner. But I don't know what else can I do. And the best is what you get.

Tell him to gain the roots. Time to stakes their force. And when you lift up much far. The way now I detrave my crumbling wall. Told my victory in the favor, any news around my face. And I saw people don't want to treeb anything. And the walls come trumbling down. The walls come crumbling and crumbling.

The walls come trombling down on it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.