Boonta Vista - EPISODE 160: The Theo Philes - I Have No Pipe But I Must Smoke

Episode Date: August 2, 2020

Theo and Ben debut their new spin-off series The Theo Philes, in which they tell each other about weird shit they think is interesting. In this first episode it's devastating corporate malfeasance and environmental negligence, and also a cool rock. *** Support our show and get exclusive bonus episodes by subscribing on Patreon: www.patreon.com/BoontaVista *** Email the show at [e-mail]! Call in and leave us a question or a message on 1800-317-515 to be answered on the show! *** Twitter: twitter.com/boontavista Website: boontavista.com Merchandise: boontavista.com/merchandise Twitch: twitch.tv/boontavista

Hello and welcome to Budavista episode 160. I am Ben and I am here inside Theo's Mind Palace. Teetering stacks of worn notebooks marked Bloodborne Boss Movesets and Gang of Four Design Patterns line the hallways, dampening the echoes of the ocean size playing from a gramophone in some distant room of this stately mansion. Craning my neck to see past bell jars containing intrusive phrases like, take me to chonch, I can see a manic figure, hammering madly at some planks and attempt to board up a room marked, was I normal in that conversation? It's theo, thio. Hey, how are you here in the place that I live? This is an interesting place. Yeah. Do you like it? What's in that room? Ah. It just seems like you really don't want to go in there. Well,

So, I mean, Ben, how have you been? You sure you're okay? You're pretty sweaty? No, no, no, it's... It's all good. I mean, first of all, I mean, you're a guest here in my mind palace. Yep. The place where I am most calm. You don't look calm, but yeah. Yeah, no, most calm. So, relatively speaking. Sure. Yeah. And do you like it? Do you like the decor? I feel? It's very nice. A lot of stuff in here. Yeah, no, I haven't really, I don't really get time to clean up what with all of the pacing, hand-ringing.

Seems like you've been doing that thing where you've been doing a stroke on the wall for every day you've been inside there. Yes, that out loud. I don't get too Food Cart about this. No, I'm having a good time. Great. Yeah. I mean what else is there? Okay, it's just, while you're talking to me, you're simultaneously hammering on the door. Yes. But also try to pull the planks down. Like you don't want to go to go to go to go to go the to go to go the pl to go to go the plight to go to go the plight to go to go to go to go the plight, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, to to to to to to to pull the plight, like, like, like, like, like, to to to to to to to to to to pull, to pull, to pull to pull the pli, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like the plight, like the plight, like the plight, like the plight, like the plight, like, like, like, like, like, like, the plight, the plight, the plight, the plight, their the plight, their their their they. they. they. tha. to to to to to the. to to thi. to pull, to the pluck, like, like, to go in there, but you're compelled to do so. Yes. Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, my work is never done. That's so true, and it never will be. And ill-defined. And it seems like a new room is developing with that thought as you're having it.

Right. I'm gonna have to work on that after we go, but that's fine. Great. talk about things that we like and that we find interesting. I think that's a great summary of what this is. Yeah. I think this this doesn't, I don't, yeah this counts as a spin-off series maybe. Andrews got one. Yeah. Lucy probably has their own interests doing other things never looked into it. But this is for us, this is a spin-offer this spin-off series I have named without consulting you at all. Yeah, no, I am, I kind of see the words forming in your mouth and I am already nervous, but go on. The theophiles.

Yeah, with a pH. Feels very theocentric. Well, it's got two meanings. Okay. Which you like, I can say what those are? First and foremost, you know, I consider myself. A enormous dog galloping towards us. I, I, I the, I, I, I, I the, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. thoom. thoomorrow, thoomorrow, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooof, thooooof, thooof, tho, tho, thooping towards us. I don't know if you've noticed, but he's destroying a plush, the fox from the movie, Zutopia.

Yeah. Which when we adopted him, he had one of those, and then he tore all the clothes off it and ripped its guts out. And then we bought him a replacement one like two days ago, and he is well on his way to it again. And I think it would would be that me not to note that your dog is now fucking enormous. He's a horse, yep. And he's looking at you. He's looking at me.

And I don't think that's menace in his eyes, but it was menace. I know who I put my money on. Theo Files, because I'm a theophile, I'm a man that loves Theo. Too kind. And also, because we're going through your files. Well, our files. We'll back and forth on this eventually. I think this is about you to me. I'm always thinking about you. Okay, well this is hard for me, but we'll work through it.

All right. Hey Ben, do you want to talk about involuntary parks? I would love to. Have you heard the term involuntary parts? So I saw this a couple of months ago. And it's one of those things where you, when you first read it, you go, oh, I've got a word for that now. I have a phrase to define this thing that I otherwise totally did not. So it kind of started off a little bit in a bit of a different fashion. So Involuntary Parks is a neologism coined by science fiction author and environmentalist Bruce Sterling to describe previously inhabited areas that for environmental, economic, or political

reasons have, in Sterling's words, lost their value for technological instrumentation, and have been allowed to return to an overgrown and feral state. So he kind of, I think he puts forward a case for a strong involuntary park term, but there are other meanings as well that have kind of spun off from them. So he sort of starts off in one of his publications. He says, we can envision a strong interventionist Bismarck scenario in which are harshly paternalistic and authoritarian government begins reshaping the dwindling landscape wholesale. Not all governments have the ability or inclination to do this, however, economic collapse is the bonanza of regulators and war is traditionally the health of the state.

The situation conceivably give rise to various carbon dioxide ration states with zealous blood and soil ideological overtones because the motherland is visibly imperiled, therefore whole populations are cybernetically drafted for the moral equivalent of the people's war. So this is sort of a, he's a hard sci-fi author, right? And he's sort of envisioning a state where we ration carbon dioxide fixing areas like we would ration resources. Sure, right? So he goes on to say global, as a fair techno-developments never lacked critics. However, it's hard to imagine a more devastating critique of American-style global liberal capitalism than nation-state sinking underwater. So since they can't be financially

exploited, these uninsured areas that are pop up, began deliberately overgrown by government fiat, this makes sense for the faster they can suck up carbon, the slower they will sink. So this is sort of his sci-fi idea, right, where these things sort of pop up, but where I want to kind of link to is where he goes with this. So the idea is far-fetched, but not without precedent. There's a large number of contemporary examples of involuntary parks. So, A, the very little, the very the the government, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, th, th, th, they, th, th, they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will, they will their, their, their, their th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, their their their their the. their the. the idea is far-fetched, but not without precedent. There's a large number of contemporary examples of involuntary parks. So, A, the very large and slightly poisonous areas downwind of Chernobyl, the Korean demilitarized zone, wheyer, which is about a mile wide and stretches across the Korean peninsula, you know, full of land minesines, but they rumor that

there are tigers there. The green line between Turkish Cyprus and Green Cyprus, where intruders are shot or arrested. And since it's basically spun up, the areas become reforested, you know, wildfires are kind of go through there regularly, abandoned military test ranges, old decaying railroad lines in the United States and aging toxic waste dumps whose poisons legally discourage humans but not animals. And so when I read the term involuntary parks, I was like, oh okay, that's what that is. Yeah. Right, like that's what we call these things where, you know, I think, I think

Chernobyl is an obvious example, right, where essentially this gigantic area has sprung back up due to a natural, due to a man-made disaster. But the disaster is sort of outweighed by the fact that people aren't there anymore. Yeah. And so you get this thing where nature like repopulates, right? Which I think is, we tend to like, we tend to romanticize this idea of like, oh well, people are gone. Nature is healing. Yeah. Dolphins in Venice, so on and so

forth. Exactly. But it's kind of a bit stickier than that, of course. Yeah. So like, one of the main examples that I think is sort of fresh in our mind after the HPO Shinobel series, certainly Chernobyl. So they've got a 30 kilometers zone around Chernobyl. So 30 kilometers is sort of the, as the, as the, certainly Chernobyl. So they've got a 30-kilometer zone around Chernobyl, so 30 kilometers are sort of as the crow-fleur. Which I've explored extensively in the video game, Storker, Shadow of Chernobyl. That's right, which is non-fiction. It's real. Yes.

People forget about that there's a very similar zone in Belarus just north, almost the same size, because of course when the reactor in Chernobyl exploded, the winds took the nuclear material north into Belarus, so they've got about 2,000 square kilometers, sort of zoned off there as well. In the Polizy State Radio Ecological Reserve and so these are like some of the biggest nature reserves in all of Europe. Right? That's so fucked up. That's incredibly fucked up right and they're there because for an involuntary nature. We have to force ourselves to be vaguely ecocontious by having a fucking disaster zone there. That's exactly, exactly right.

But like, it gives rise to the image of, you know, like three-eyed fishes and all that sort of thing. White albino deer. Yeah, and certainly when it did start, when it did first occur, you know, there was a big dumping of nuclear, radio nuclides on a forest just, just very close to it, which immediately became red. So it was a forest of Scots pine trees and the nuclear material killed all of the chlorophyll in it and all of the trees became red. So no more green in them, they all became red and started to die because to die because they lost all of their chlorophyll, right? So they then came through almost immediately after the disaster, plowed all of the trees, buried them under, underground,

and sort of, away we go, kind of thing. And that's where that red forest term came from. But stuff where, you know, animals mutate are almost, it's almost immediately leading to their death, right? So if animals have weird effects from the radiation, they almost immediately fall over and die, but otherwise, you know, animals don't live long enough to get cancer, they're just glad to have space where we're not, right? Yeah. So, you know, they're, the, the, these, theyce, the, the, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, their their, it's, it's, it's, it's they, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they're just glad to have space where we're not. Right? Sure, yeah.

So, you know, these give rise to like, you know, new populations of European bison, horses, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles. The Belarus one is home to the world's largest population of the European marsh turtle. And I think it continues to be like super interesting for biologists for two reasons, right? Because one, it's probably the only place here you can study the effects of long-term, long-term nuclear radiation exposure to populations of animals. It's also one of the only places you can study animals where there aren't human influence. Right? This is, that just reminds me of you just lent me the Area X trilogy of books.

Yes. There's a line in like the second book where it's a ghostbird talking to control. But she says there's like this offhand comment about how like, he thinks the environment is fine because he has never been in an environment that wasn't distress or compromised in some way. Yeah. Which is true of like every human being. Like 99.9% of human beings are only ever in natural environments that are like, they have been modified in some way to allow humans

to have little day trips in them and such. Like we will never see, probably never th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi, like, thi, like, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi, like, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi. thi. thi. thi. thirips in them and such. Like we will never see, probably never see a properly healthy environment. Absolutely, and it's a really good example because Jeff Vandermeer is very interesting in dogs barking, in ecology and is especially influenced by, you know, Suffolk, Chernobyl and that kind of thing and I don't think the link there is unintentional kind of thing. So there's heaps and heaps of great examples of this. The Dolop did an episode on Centralia, a town in Pennsylvania where a garbage fire spread to a coal seam under the town. Oh, that's the one where Silent Hills sort of that sort of, yeah. We've got our own underground underground the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th g- under underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground underground coal the the the the the the the town. Oh that's the one where Silent Hills sort of vaguely based off that sort of yeah. We've got our own underground coal fire towns over here don't we? Oh did we? I feel like we have at least one of those. They're so fucked up. Yeah absolutely and eventually these places are

emptied out, evacuated, you know, they had to eventually get everyone out of Centralia because there were big pockets of carbon monoxide that would thue th. thue th. th, thue tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, theate, the, the, theate, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thean, theeeeeee the that would just, you know, kill you in your sleep sort of thing, which is not ideal. But peaceful though. Yeah, but the one I want to talk about today, Ben, is a little place called Love Canal. Now that sounds very pleasant. And Ben, anytime in this story when something very cool happens, I just want you to let me know. Okay, all right. So it begins in 1890. And, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, there, there, there, there, there, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, their their their their their their their their their th, their th, th, th. th. th. thi, there, thi. the, there theeeea. thi. thea. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. cool happens, I just want you to let me know. Okay. All right.

All right. So it begins in 1890 with William T. Love, an ambitious entrepreneur from the Western Railroad Corporation, who envisioned a perfect urban area called the Model City. He prepared plans to construct a community of parks and residences on the banks of Lake Ontario, believing it would serve the areas burgeoning industries with much-needed hydroelectricity, gave his name to the ensuing project, envisioning a perfect urban area. Sounds good. And sort of. No, not really. We'll see. So the panic of 1893 caused investors to end sponsorship of the project. In addition, Congress passed the law prohibiting the removal of waste from the Niagara River to preserve Niagara Falls. So only one mile of the canal was dug, about 50 feet wide

and about 10 to 40 feet deep stretching northward from the Niagara River. Panic of 1907, back-to-back panics, proved economically disastrous as Love had to abandon the project. So, and then they basically, they didn't need hydro electricity anymore because they got high voltage power lines. You suddenly didn't have to have electricity near to where you kind of were. So eventually, the project was abandoned. The canal gradually filled with water.

Our local children swam there during summers, skated during the winters. And then in the 1920s, the canal became a dump site for the city of Niagara Falls, with the city regularly unloading its municipal refuse into the landfill. Good. So far so good. Yep. Enter the Hooker Chemical Company. Enter the Hooker Chemical Company.

And that's not a funny name. No, certainly not. So by the end of 1940s, the Hooker Chemical Company was searching for a place. to the coaker to dispose its large quantity of chemical waste. Niagara Power and Development Company granted permission to Hooker during 1942 to dump was waists into the canal. The canal was drained and lined with thick clay and then into the site, Hooker began placing 55 US gallon barrels full of, began placing 55 US gallon metal or fiber barrels. In 1947, Hooker began, bought the canal and the 70-foot wide banks

on either side of the canal and subsequently converted into a 16-haker landfill. So then the city of Niagara Falls bugged off, and it was just purely a landfill for this chemical company. So, in 1952, it became apparent that the site would likely be developed for construction. So they ceased to using it as a dump site. During that 10 years beforehand, they dumped 21,000 tons of chemicals.

Excuse me. Mostly composed of costics, alkalines, fatty acids, chlorinated hydrocarbons resulting from the manufacturing of dyes, perfumes, solvents for rubber and synthetic resins. These chemicals were buried at a depth of 20 to 25 feet and upon closure the canal was covered with a clay sealed to prevent leakage. And that was that. Yep, and we never heard of it ever again. Yep. So, and then by the 1950s the city of Niagara Falls was experiencing a population increase.

And Ben, who did they sell the land to? I could not even begin to guess. With a growing population, the Niagara Falls City School District needed land to build new schools and attempted to purchase the property from Hooker Chemical. Oh no. And by this point there's 98,000 people here. So during 1951, the school board prepared a plan showing a school being built over the canal and listing condemnation values for each property that we need to be acquired.

During this, the superintendent inquired of Hooker with regards to purchasing the Love Canal property for the purpose of constructing a school. So they knew. Yep. Well aware. So in a internal memo, Bjarn Klausen, the vice president, wrote that it may be advisable discontinue using Love Canal property for a dumping ground now that we know that there's going to be a school built on it.

That's good when they have a conscience. Yeah, absolutely. I think they've done all of the right things. So he wrote to the company, the hooker company presidents, suggesting that the sale could alleviate them from future liabilities for the future, for the buried chemicals. Oh my god. Yep. So the more we thought about it, the more interested we became in the proposition and finally came to the conclusion that the Love Canal property is rapidly becoming a liability because of housing

projects near the vicinity of the project. A school, however, could be built in the center of the unfilled section with chemicals underground. We became convinced that it would be a wise move to turn this property over to the schools provided we could not be held responsible for future claims or damages resulting from underground storage of chemicals. I mean this is you know an auxiliary point to any of this but I love how efficiently corporations break down responsibility to the point that no one involved feels like they have any moral culpability whatsoever.

And you just end up the point where building a school on top of this is simply the only moral option. It's so far. So while the school board condemned some nearby properties, Hookers agreed to sell the property to the school board for $1. Hooker's letter to the board agreeing into enter the negotiations noted that in view of the nature of the property and the purposes for which it had been used, it be necessary for us to have special provisions incorporated into the the the to the the the the to, the the to, the the the the the the the the the the the to, to, the the the the the the the the the to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, their, the, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, tho, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, sooomea, is, is, is, sooomorrow, is, is, is, is, sooomorrow, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, the nature of the property and the purposes for which it had been used, it would be necessary for us to have special provisions incorporated into the deed with respect to the use of the property and other pertinent matters. The board rejected the company's proposal. The deed required to be the land to be used for park purposes only, with the school itself to be built nearby. So they basically gave it for one dollar to the school board saying, hey, just put a

park here. Yeah, don't ask any questions. You don't need to do the school thing. The park's good. We only want one dollar. On the proviso that you'll never hear from us again. Anything that happens, just happens. And don't worry about what that thing might be.

Don't even worry about it. It's fine. So basically, they assigned the board, the school board, with a continuing duty to protect property buyers from chemicals, when the company itself accepted no moral obligation. So not long after taking the land, the school board proceeded to develop the land including construction activity that substantially breached containment structures in a number of ways, allowing previous trapped chemicals to seep out.

So despite the disclaimer, they went ahead. They built 99th Street School in the original location. In 1954, the school's architect wrote to the education committee, informing them that during excavation, workers discovered two dump sites filled with 55 US gallon drums containing chemical wastes. The architect noted it would be poor policy to build in that area, since it was not known what wastes were present and the concrete foundation might be damaged. So the school board then relocated the school site 25 meters north. Problem solved once and for all. Absolutely done and dusted.

The kindergarten playground also had to be relocated because it was directly on top of a chemical dump. Oh no. In 1955 it was completed. 400 children attended the school and opened, along with other schools in the area that had been built. The same year, the 25-foot area crumbled exposing toxic chemical drums, which then filled with water during rainstorms. This created large puddles that children enjoyed playing in. Oh, very cool.

Very cool. That's where I'm at so far. One of my friends, my very close friend Beck, grew up in Niagara, I'm going to have to ask her about this. Please do. Good Lord. So in 1955, they opened a second school, six blocks away. During 1957, the city of Niagara Falls constructed sewers for a mixture of low-income and single-family residences to built on lands adjacent to the landfill site. So they're just gone digging around.

What you got down there? What did you got under there? So, just the backtrack a little bit. So it's a canal, right? That they used as a dumping ground. It was very briefly a canal, which they then absolutely packed to the brim full of... But it's long and narrow, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, hang on. I go back on the notes. It was... And we can cut this bit there was it was at and we can cut this bit down but then we probably can't but but but so it was one mile long and 50 feet wide so one one mile that is enormous toxic waste yeah great but only 50 feet wide so only 50 feet wide

that's the thing is, you know, the kind of the length sounds bad, but the width, very good. That's a very manageable width. So the school district sold a bunch of land. So the school there, but they sold a bunch of the other land, and they, the Niagara Falls City built about 800 houses on top of this canal. The sale came despite the warning of a hooker attorney that, as paraphrased in the minutes of a board meeting, due to chemical waste having being dumped in the area, the land was not suitable for construction where underground facilities would be necessary.

He stated the company would not prevent the board from selling the land or doing anything they wanted to do with it. it it it it it it it, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their houses, their houses, their houses, on their their houses, the company would not prevent the board from selling the land or doing anything they wanted to do with it. However, it was their intent that this property be used for a school and for parking. Like they're still coming back to the school idea. It's the safest thing. It's the nastiest shit you can imagine. That's why we recommend the safest option is putting children on top of it. Children always bounce back from stuff. They do bounce back.

That's the thing. That's a little of that vital kind of life energy in it too. Exactly right. So the, um, it went ahead anyway, right? Like, because of course it did. The land where the homes were being built was not part of the agreement between the school board and hooker, therefore none of the residents knew the canal's history. There's no monitoring or evaluating of the chemical waste stored under the ground,

and additionally the clay cover of the canal which was supposed to be impermeable, began to crack. To my mind, clay, quite permeable. Yes. It's sort of like, it's, it's, it's ground, right? Yeah, porous to my mind. Yeah. Hmm. Kind of there's diamonds, there's concrete, somewhere down the way, there's ground. Clay is just sort of about two or three levels above water as a solid material goes for me.

Yes. So they also built a nearby LaSalle Expressway, which restricted groundwater from flowing to the Niagara River, and then they had a big wet winter. So in 1962, the elevated expressway turned the breech canal into an overflowing pool. People reported having puddles of oil or colored liquid in yards or basements. Oh no. Still 400 children in this school in 1978. This has been like 20-something years, by the way. Liquids at this point. Should not naturally be colored to my mind. No, you want a good clear liquid. If you see a liquid that's colored it means either something is failing in your body.

You're drinking some sort of a gatorade or some such where we definitely know that it's toxic. Yes. Or it's a radiated waste. That's right. All bad signs. Or it could be harmless. It could be fun. It's sort of the fun orange liquid that seeves into your house from the chemical waste water.

Guys, it's only 1978. We don't really know what chemicals are yet. The periodic table of elements has 10 things on it. It's mostly just question marks. We've got lead, we've got gold, and all the rest. Yeah. A hypothesized material, funerium. Extremely toxic. Do not eat funerium. So residents were suspicious of black fluid that flowed out of the love canal. Do you do this whole thing just so that you could read that one sentence? One more time. Residents were suspicious of black fluid that flowed out of the love canal. And if black fluid is flowing out of your love canal, please see a medical professional.

So for years, residents have complained about odors and substances in their yards or the public playgrounds. Finally, the city acted and hired a consultant to do a far-reaching study. In 1977, a harsh winter storm dumped a whole shitload of snow, significantly raising the water table, the excess water got into the groundwater and raised the elevation of contaminants, including dioxin. And then during the spring of 1977, the State Departments of Health and Environmental Conservation began an intensive air, soil and groundwater sampling and analysis program after qualitative after qualitative identification of a number of organic compounds in the basement of 11 homes adjacent to the Love Canal.

So it was also revealed that the standards at the time not require the installation of a liner to prevent leaching. So basically it's just going straight out into the water table, having a good old time. Oh man. Then two reporters really started digging in this for the Niagara Falls Gazette, David Pollack and David Russell, who tested several sump pumps near Love Canal and found toxic chemicals in them. The Gazette published reports once in October 1976 and once in November 1976 of chemical analyses of residues near the old Love Canal dump site. This is like a great phrase to throw around. They're up there up near the old

love canal dump site. Which indicated the presence Love Canal dump site. Which indicated the presence of 15 organic chemicals including three toxic chlorinated hydrocarbons, which are the worst kind I think, I don't know. I'm no hydrocarbon guy. I'm not even a carbon guy. No, we've got any hydrocarbon heads in the audience? Tell us if them being chlorinated, it's bad. Wouldn't it suck if smart people listen to this, no, that's not the way I should be phrasing that.

Wouldn't it suck to be a smart person that listens to this podcast? So then the matter became quiet for more than a year, which, so, okay, we're at the point now where, you know, toxic waste bubbling from the ground, basements filling with hideous black goo. Yep. Just dropped out of the public consciousness.

Just there's more important things on. What year was this? What year? It might have been something really good on TV. It might have been something really good on TV. Yeah. And people were just like really getting into that and forgetting about the toxic chemicals bubbling up into their homes. First year that Dragnet was on TV. It took up a lot of people's mental energy.

No one in history is the Dragnet year. You're going to ask your neighbor like, hey, can you smell something funny and then instead you like, did you watch Dragnet last night? What else was I going to ask? I'm off to watch Dragonet. So they forgot about this for more than a year. I assume the residents didn't, it's just that the world as a whole became cold towards it. I mean like nowadays the amount of time takes rush to get news fatigue about the issue was like two hours.

That's right. And then it was revived by a reporter Michael Brown who investigated potential health effects by performing an informal door-to-door survey during 1978, writing 100 news items on toxic wastes in the area and finding birth defects and many anomalies such as enlarge feet, heads, hands and legs. What is the distinction here between a formal and informal survey? Like, I mean, because I assume this is some sort of statistical difference. Yeah, would a formal survey be every household is accounted for?

I think so. And the informal surveys, you're just a guy. Yeah, you're knocking on the door and saying, hey, go any weird feet, heads, hands or legs? Show me those feet. Have you got Andre the giant?, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the thi the the thorough, the thorough, thi, the the thorough, the thor thor the the the the thor the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi. thorough, thorough, thorough, thorougheea.a.a. thoroughea. thoroughea. thoroughea. thorough, thorough, thorough, th weird feet, heads, hands or legs? Show me those feet. Have you got Andre the Giant hands, but you're not the size of Andre the Giant? He actually was walking around with a plastic cast of Andre the Giant's hands for reference. He knocks on the door and the door opens just a creak and someone looks out and then a gigantic foot pushes the door closed. As a yes. Oh boy, this is a bad place. It freaks it.

So, so Hooker threatened to sue this guy, Michael Brown, and he fought the firm tooth and nail for years, including on the Today Show. His book on toxic was the poisoning of America by toxic chemicals was for years including on the Today Show. His book on Toxic Wastes, Laying Waste the Poisoning of America by Toxic Chemicals was the first written on the subject of Toxic Wastes and created a national firestorm. So before now, didn't care for books about toxic waste. Couldn't get you a deal. I feel like a TV shows and shit that we watched as kids in the 90s. That toxic waste was like a big element of them? Yeah, absolutely.

Big glowing green barrels on like Captain Planet, that's the thing. Now like the like... Well, we fixed that. Yeah, we fixed glowing green barrels of waste and now we have just the whole fucking planet is dying? Yeah. Which is a more potent symbol maybe. Less digestible. But, yes, that, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. Yeah, th. th. Yeah, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, thi. And, tho, tho, thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And, tho. And,, please help us we're dying. Yeah, in my opinion,

it was better when all of the waste was in a barrel that glowed green because you knew that was bad. You can just say, oh look at that. Yeah, that's not good. I'm going to put that with the rest of the glowing green barrels. And now like every day you just read a different news story where you like the Arctic circles on fire, the UK just th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th is th, th, th, th is th, th, th, th, thu thu thu thu thu thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thi, third highest temperature since the 1700s. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. So this became a national media event with articles referring to the neighborhood as a public health time bomb and one of the most appalling environmental tragedies in American history. Brown working for the local newspaper is credited with not only revealing the case but establishing toxic chemical waste as a national national I'll get that right nationwide issue as well his book examined the Love Canal disaster and many other toxic waste catastrophes nationwide so the dumpsert was declared an

unprecedented state of emergency on August 2nd 1978 1978. So Brown, who wrote more than 100 articles concerning the dump, tested the groundwater and later found that the dump was three times larger than originally thought. We thought we had it covered with just the school on top. And then we moved that 25 meters away, which I think as we covered, is like half the width of the canal. I love that it's just someone being like, no, no, no, no, no. I know for a fact the dump is from here to here.

Now you're telling me it's from here to there? Oh no! This dump couldn't be more than half a mile long, right? I would not believe you if you told me it was any longer than half a mile long. This dump is exactly 13.33 feet wide and 300 and oh wait no I don't know how long a mile is I can't subdivide that exactly a third of a mile long and I will not hear otherwise. So enter Lois Gibbs in the Love Canal Homeowners Association. So she was a local mother who called an election to head this association and began to rally

homeowners. Her son, Michael Gibbs, began attending the school in 1977. He then developed epilepsy in December, suffered from asthma and a urinary tract infection and her low white blood cell count. All associated with his exposure to the leaking chemical waste. Do you know if there was a much leaking chemical chemical chemical the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the cell count. All associated with exposure to the leaking chemical waste. But do you know if there was much leaking chemical waste exposure where you grew up? No. So during the following years, she organized an effort to investigate community concerns about the health of its residents.

She and other residents made repeated complaints of strange odors and substances that surfaced in their yards. In their neighborhood there was a high rate of unexplained illnesses, miscarriages and disabilities. Basements were often covered with thick black substance and vegetation was dying. There's a couple of words in there that are massive red flags. Yes. Surfaced? Yeah. Rarely good. Not good. Not, you know, surface can either mean like surfacing from the water like a one of the bond women coming up out of the beach in a bikini and it's in slow motion. Sort of a sexy surfacing. Yes. But I say 90% of surfacings are something that is beneath something where the bad stuff is and then it's come up to where the stuff is that is good. Yeah and that's

really the dichotomy of surfacing I think. It's either a kind of Megan Fox situation or Black Goo. Yep. One of the two. Yep. So she also discovered the chemical danger of the two. So she also discovered the chemical danger of the adjacent canal. So can I just, I want to backtrack a little bit. Yeah. That your mind for hot babe immediately springs to Megan Fox, who has not been to the public consciousness for like a decade was not a boffioman. It's my last point of point of reference.

I'm not really like a swimsuit guy. This is before you met Caitlin, so it's the last time you thought of a hot lady that was not your wife? Exactly right. I don't allow myself to. It entertains. I couldn't imagine. Before that was El McPherson, which was like 20 years before. I love being here in your mind palace. It's wonderful. So obviously the homeowners concerns were ignored by not only the hook 20 years before. I love being here in your mind, palaces. It's wonderful. So obviously the homeowners concerns were ignored by not only the hook chemical company, which is now a subsidiary of Occidental Petroleum, but also by members of government. Occidental Petroleum.

Yeah, like, whoopsy, we had an oxidant. Poe body's nerve-ecked. Dear God. So, since the residents couldn't prove chemicals on their property had come from the disposal site, it could have come from any gigantic... A glowing green goo coming from the ground. Someone could prove that's ours. Someone could have dropped that.

Someone got to drop that. A bird might have carried that from a different toxic waste side. How do we know you didn't bring that toxic waste with you? So they, while this whole like legal battle was going on, they can't sell their properties, they can't relocate, they can't do anything. But on August 7th, 1978, Jimmy Carter announced the federal health emergency, called for the allocation of the federal funds, and ordered the federal disaster assistance agency to assist the city of Niagara Falls to remedy the Love Canal, the doomed to the doomed

love canal. This is the first time in American history that emergency funds were used for a situation other than than than than th th than than th th th th th th th th than th than th than th Now this is the first time in American history that emergency funds were used for a situation other than a natural disaster and Carter had trenches built that would transport the waists to sewers and had home some pumps sealed off. So really the problem is the pumps bringing the stuff to the surface. Should have stopped that. Right. Yeah. Just leave it alone. You don't know what's down there. Could be me the the the the the the thue thue thue thue thue thue thue thue thue thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu. Just leave it alone. Look the bugs elsewhere. You don't know what's down there. Could be Megan Fox.

It could be Black Goo. That's true. And this is what Eckhart C. Beck, the EPA administrator. Eke Becky as we call it. I had to say when he had a visit in the late 1970s. I visited the canal area at that time. Corroding waste disposal drums could be seen breaking up through the grounds of backyards. Trees and gardens were turning black and dying. One entire swimming pool had been popped up from

its foundation, a float now in a small sea of chemicals. A float now in a small sea of chemicals. That's a Brian Eno album, right? Pottles of noxious substances were pointed out to me by the residents. Like, hey. There is one. I suppose that's something you're interested in. Here. Here.

There. Over there. Oh, yep. Some of these puddles were in there, the other one here. Oh, yep. Some of these puddles were in their yards, some were in their basements, others were on the school grounds. Everywhere the air had a faint choking smell. Children returned from play with burns on their hands and faces. Like, I just feel like, and I'm not a parent.

Yeah. If that happened to my child one time, I'd be like, you are the the the the the the, you the, you the, you are the, you are the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean,, if that happened to my child one time, I'd be like, you are playing wrong, Benjamin Jr. learned to play better, but happen a second time, I'd be like, we are moving to Wisconsin. We are located in hell. Yeah, we need to get the fuck out of here. Hi everybody, it's me. It's Theo. I'm more afraid of recording this promo than you are of listening to it, to it, to it, to it, to it, to it, to it, to it, to it, to to to to to to, to, to, to, thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. And, thiiiii. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi, thi. And, it's me. It's Theo. Now I guarantee you I'm more afraid of recording this promo than you are of listening to it, so hear me out. If you haven't already, maybe check out our Patreon. It's a great way to support the show and it gives us the ability to actually dedicate time to this thing.

You'll get all of our bonus episodes, it's over 300 extra episodes in total, and we'll set up a feed over the feed over th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thee, th, thee, thee, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, th, maybe, th, th, th, maybe, th, th, th, th, th, maybe, th, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to hear this ever again. You'll also get access to our Discord, which honestly is turned into a nice and funny place full of mostly normal people to hang out with. So that's Patreon.com slash Bunter Vista. Check it out. So at this point we reach the evacuation. Uh, finally, right? So, I believe this is, we reach the evacuation, finally, right? So I believe this is 23 years on. Yep. So there was a bunch of public resistance, though, in actually getting this recognized to prove negligence. A bunch of residents within the community pushed back on being evacuated, which I think it's like it's something consistent, you know, you see it with

Chernobyl, you see it with a whole bunch of places where there is at least some amount of pushback on the evacuation effort, but eventually the federal government relocated more than 800 families, reimbursed them for the loss of their homes relocated more than 800 families, reimbursed them for the loss of their homes and then used $15 million to purchase 400 homes closest to the Love Canal and demolished a whole bunch of them, thereby turning them into an involuntary park. So they bought the homes. Yes. Was there any other like, hey, here is a bunch of money for the ongoing medical costs you and your children will have for like the rest of your life?

Um, hmm, now, it appears no. Cool. You would think yes? Hmm. But, so eventually the, the residents had to sue Hooker slash Occidental. The federal court in 1994 found that they'd been negligent but not reckless in its handling of the waste, which is a fun little distinction to make. Sure, I imagine, yeah, reckless would be if they were like actively throwing toxic sludge

into people's houses while laughing while like out of the sunroof of a limousine versus just letting them build their homes and schools on top of it. For several decades, yes. Yeah, that's not reckless. No, and dusting their hands immediately after the $1 sale, which, you know, great value Great value I guess. It's so good. Just I'll give it to you for simply a dollar and there's no other cost no other cost but Eventually Occidental was sued by the EPA and in 1995 agreed to pay a hundred and twenty nine million dollars in restitution. So out of that federal lawsuit came money for a small health fund and three and a half million dollars for the state health

study and then a bunch of residents lawsuits was settled in the years afterwards. But there's good news in all of this. I don't think there is but go on. Well it's very pessimistic of you, because the Department of Justice published a report noting that the sites have recently been successfully remediated. I am ready again for use. OK, what does remediate mean here? Like completely, like you could dig 10 foot down,

drink the water that you found there and be like, fantastic. Okay, well, virtually all remedial activities finished. There are still some leachates. Okay. You're gonna have a leachate problem. I don't fully understand what that word means, but I'm gonna assume this just means that there is still a bunch of weird chemical goops seeping into the surface from the ground water.

Yeah, leachate is when the ground kills you. Well, it's good we have a word for that. Yeah. Fantastic. Really, just a feel good time. And that's wonderful. And that's just a success story of how the entrepreneurial spirit can turn anything into a dollar. America really is the land of the free to sell a mile-long toxic waste dump for a dollar to a school board. Imagine if like they had just

set it up as some sort of zone if exclusion that was exactly a mile long and 50 feet wide you just have to go right around it when people to visit in the town were like hey um let's go in there oh I wouldn't go in there. Don't go in the town were like, hey, um, I just go in there. Oh, I wouldn't go in there. Don't go in the strip. Um, it's funny you say that if you actually look up Love Canal on Google Maps, there is still a huge area of land that just has streets with no houses. Huh. They haven't really done anything to spice it up. It's just a big empty section of land in the middle of Niagara Falls. It is a very weirdly shaped suburb. Sort of a parallelogram with a weird additional space. Oh, you can see a strip, can't you? My goodness? Yeah. Oh, that's strange. We call that the fuck-up strip.

It's very understandable. It's extremely understandable, actually. How about that? That's fucking wild. Oh, you can see the expressway and everything. Oh, well, thank you for sharing that with me. I love to learn more about horrible corporate malfeasance from the worst people alive and how you can just kind of get away with it. Like, how much you reckon $120 million hurt their bottom line? Yeah, it's really hard to say, isn't it? And it kind of feels like perhaps 40 years too late? Well, you know what they say. I'm going to take it in a very different direction. This is probably, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm just, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind to kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind, I, I, I, I, I, I'm kind kind kind kind, I'm to say, I'm to say, I'm to say, I'm to say, I'm going to say, I'm to say, I'm to say, I'm to say, I'm to say, I'm to say, I'm to say, I what they say. I'm going to take it in a very different direction. This is probably, I'm going to say if you plot all things from history on a spectrum, the start of the spectrum is willingly poisoning children. That's the negative end of the spectrum and then that the

other end is, oh and that's kind of what I'm going for. Okay, so we've really taken this in two different directions. That's true, yeah. That makes us very different from, say, the band one direction. And here we go. So, just to kind of give you a sort of scale for this story, I'm going to give you a reverse timeline of some big milestones in art history. Just to sort of get a sense of where we were where these developments happened, starting in the present day. 2017, George W. Bush publishes a collection of 66 oil paintings of US military veterans

that he's done. Weren't they nice as well? Yeah, it's lovely. He's sitting there in his little studio. Yeah, he's just whistling to himself, doing some paintings. And he's not even thinking about it. At no point, there's a little voice in the back of his brain just going, a million dead of Iraqis. No, no, no, no, it it it it it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it would it, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it would it would it would it would it would it would it would th th th thi, it would th No, no, it would be nice to not have that voice.

And it's not like, you know, occasionally he's looking in a mirror and he's trying to smile, but no matter what he does with his face, his reflection isn't smiling? Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't happen to him at all. In fact, you know what, I'm saying this kind of sarcasticly it doesn't happen to him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to. thi. thi. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to. to. to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I bet he doesn't think about this in the slightest. No, no he's just doing his paintings of his shitty little dog. His dog sucks. Hanging out at the baseball. Being best friends with Alan, loves that lady. It's very strange. I just think that, uh, and this kind of ties in with yours a little bit in the sense that you can detach yourself from all responsibility for anything if you've done in a group, right, if you're part of an organization that's making something happen. That probably, it genuinely doesn't cross his mind.

That he has ruined countless lives and families that will have impacts that will go on for generations and generations and probably nothing. It's like well done steak, wearing a cowboy hat indoors, smiles to himself, thinks about a life well lived. Anyway, in 1987, Andre Serrano, exhibits piss Christ for the first time. He gets a crucifix, puts it in some sort of like a fish tank or something, he pisses in it, and then he takes a photo of it. And then people say, why have you done this?

And he says, I wanted to. It seemed like a good idea. It seemed like a great idea. And you know what, we're still talking about it. So I guess that means it was successful art. That's how they get you. You piss at a fish tax and people have to talk about you. And that's a little life-hack. I think you had to give them a dollar every time you thought of a piece of art. I bet they would fucking love that. Wouldn't they?

Wouldn't they? Imagine what that would encourage Jim Davis publishes the first Garfield cartoon. Now we were trying to work this out before, right? Is the first Garfield cartoon the one where he steals John's pipe? Now it feels like it would be very easy for us to work this out. It would be very easy. I... So, our debate went more or less along the lines of I said no because it requires too much of an understanding of the character of Garfield for it to make sense. Yeah, I said yes because I really feel like John Davis has a long view of the characters that he's building and the world that he's trying to create through his art.

And it's demonstrative, right? That's right, just through one simple action you learn so much and the world that he's trying to create through his art. And it's demonstrative, right? That's right, just through one simple action you learn so much about the characters. John, a man, the man, possibly, has a pipe. Every man. But yet, but yet... But it must smoke his pipe. A tale, as old as time itself. I have no pipe, but I must smoke.

Would you like for me to describe to you the first Garfield cartoon? Please. Published June 19th, 1978. There's a sort of a two,to two chest of drawers to draw's with a very misshaped Garfield on top of it. There's a somewhat more confident suave handsome John sitting on a stool in front of an easel and in the first panel he's saying here hi there I'm John Arbuckle I'm a cartoonist this, I'm John Arbuckle, I'm a cartoonist. This is my cat Garfield. Oh, I forgot John was a cartoonist. He's a cartoonist, which it seems like the pretense of that was dropped in later sort of things.

Although it's interesting that Jim Davis has the same relationship to John as Jerry Seinfeld to Jerry Seinfeld in the show Seinfeld. It's it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, the the the the the their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, th, th. th. the, the, the, too, too, too, too, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, the, the, in the show Seidfeld. In the, it's a sort of a proxy character. Oh, Jerry Seinfeld was a self-insert. It's hard to believe for years. So our second panel here we've zoomed in on John and the cat. And the cat is thinking, because that's the only way Garfield communicates because he can't talk. Hi there, I'm Garfield, I'm a cat, and this is my cartoonist John. And then the third panel, and this is sort of the punchline of the comic,

is John saying, our only thought is to entertain you, well Garfield, that tricky little bastard from hell, he's thinking, feed me. So, so what I put forward was sort of extremely generous. Very kind of, you know, I feel like giving him way more control of his craft than he has really demonstrated, whereas what you're putting forward is that they're thinking and saying, I have a cartoon cartoon now. Yes and this is a sort of hello welcome to this cartoon and the only thing they're trying to convey about the characters whereas what you posited was Jim Davis has boldly gone out

there and he has said John is sort of hapless he's always at odds with his awful cat the cat is a real piece of shit who is living a life of excess and luxury at John's expense. What this says is John is a cartoonist. Garfield likes food. And that was a master stroke there and explains why he's still at the top of his game. Years later, is he still alive? He is, isn't he? Jim Davis. Not Garfield. Garfield died. RAPE. In a similar vein, 1908, Adolf Hitler fails the entrance exam for the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna, seemingly on the strength or lack there of his portfolio. So this is the

second time he failed by one biographer's account he passed the the part where you have to draw some quick sketches based on some direction that you're given but the second part of the examination where they just look at your portfolio apparently was not good. Oh well at first you don't succeed. And then at second also you don't succeed. And then something else. I feel like he could have explored some other things. Really the sky was his oyster at this point. Yep. I think he went in the worst possible direction to my mind. Yeah, no no absolutely. This is like... I don't know if this is, I don't know,

there's a weird thing my brain that, um, I genuinely, I generally have a thing where, if someone is quite good at doing something that takes a lot of diligence, it's hard for me to think of Hitlerthem as a, I mean obviously it's not hard for me to think of Hitler as a bad person, but it seems like a character trait of a person that is generally good, you know, like you'd be like if you looked at a beautiful painting someone did, you think of them as like, I don't know, there's something weird about that. The capacity to paint, and then the capacity to be like the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst to be like the worst the worst the worst to be like the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst to be like the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst the worst to be like to be like the worst, the worst, to be like, to be like, to be like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, the paint and then the capacity to be like the worst person in the history of the world. Just don't seem to gel very well.

No, you wouldn't expect them to go hand in hand, but apparently. What are you going to do though? 1814, Hoccusae paints, dream of the fisherman's wife. He sure did, didn't he? And I believe you've seen that one in the flesh. I have seen it in the flesh in Brisbane's tiny modern art museum. Quite striking. Not really sure about the right amount of time to spend in front of dream of the fisherman's wife looking at it. No because you really you're trapped between too awful, like two, your options are, if you look at it for too quick, you're ashamed of your own nature, right?

That's right, you're saying this art overpowered me. It disgusts me because I'm a child. If you look at it for too long, well you're just a man staring at an octopus. You were the octopus pervert. You were the octopus pervert. And everyone else in the gallery is like, oh Jesus Christ, that guy got a heart on? What's the fuck's happening here? He's standing there thinking, boy I wish that was me. And we'll leave it up to the list to decide whether you're talking about the lady or the octopus. Sometimes you're the lady. Sometimes you're the host. That's so true.

Turn to the 16th century, Leonardo da Vinci paints the Mona Lisa. What was that bitch thinking? If only we knew. We'll never know. No, all we could do is look. That's so true. Do you think... So it's a painting, not a photograph of that much I know about art history, so it took thue. Do you think, so it's a painting not a photograph of that that much I

know about art history so it took him a while. Yep. Do you think he just kept being like, hey could you look quizzical but benign? Yeah, like I need more mystery. Like think of a dirty joke but then don't tell it to me and then hold that thought in your mind. No, too dirty., but then don't tell it to me. And then hold that thought in your mind. No, too dirty. Real about that. Funny a joke. Second century BC, the Venus to Milo is completed by what is believed to be a man called

Alexandros of Antioch, although we're not entirely certain. That's the, uh, the titty lady with no arms. So, when, when was was was was was that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the titty lady with no arms. So, when was that? The second century BC. It's way older than I ever imagined it to be. And I'm starting to think that I might be wrong. But I think I'm right. And we could find that out. But instead...

It makes sense because they didn't have arm technology at that point. That is true. Wikipedia says it's roughly 100 BC, which is the second century. There you go. Great some time between 130 and 100 BC. There you go. Yeah, it's weird because I sort of lump it into, in my head with those sort of renaissance era marble statues of a similar ilk.

Absolutely. But it's not. it's way before that. There you go. Thank you, Alexandros Vantioch. You are ahead of the curve, except when it came to arms. Now we're getting right back here, 10,000 BC, human hands are stencils on the walls of the Quaver Delis Manos in Argentina, alongside some drawings of some Juanacos, and the species of bird that bit Bolsonaro. The prophecy. Right there. This whole time. And there's also, it's weird because right next to it, there's a painting of the same man in four separate hospital beds.

It's weird because it shows a linear progression of time, almost like history's first comic strip. Every single time the man just looks more and more sick, but somehow he keeps on being alive. What's going on with that guy, you reckon? Well I think they probably assumed he had COVID-19,000 BC. And we could just move straight on from that. Yeah could move straight on from that. Yep, absolutely. 17,000 BC, nomadic foragers in what is now China's Junxi province, decorate the earliest clay vessels that we have ever found.

The earliest ceramics. It's just lovely. Is that nuts? That's such a long time ago. You know the pottery wheel wasn't invented until like 5,000 BC? It's 12,000 years. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, like, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And th. And th. And, thi. And, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thoooooooooooooan, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th 12,000 years. Like, that is such an unimaginable span of time between those two things. That's fucking nuts. This sort of shit boils my brain. This is like, prehistory stuff is the thing that I love reading when I'm high because I'm just like

curled up in my living room high on my brain just being like, they were like us, but it was ages ago. What the hell. 26,000 BC someone in what is now Arnhemland uses charcoal to draw an image on a rock wall that's still there well I think we removed that chunk of rock but I mean the drawing survived 28,000 years. Imagine that if you picked up a piece of charcoal out of a fire, cold fire, well no, the remains for fire, fire's not cold. And then you did a little doodle on the wall, and then 28,000 years later someone was like, hey, check this shit out.

Imagine if you were like coy about it, because you weren't so good at drawing and just like, oh, this is a painting just for me. No one will ever see this. No one will ever see this. Out of the Way cave over here. This is just a little practice sketch. I posted the screenshot to 20 yesterday of, it's this, uh, like 15,000 year old drawing of a weasel, where the caption on it was like an extremely rare drawing of a weasel executed in 10 flawless strokes.

Where it's like, wow, incredible. And then someone just replied being like, yeah, but nearby the cave, there was just like 50 really dog shit weasels. But like you'd never see, uh, it's always, always you know like the famous cave paintings like Lusco and Altamira and all the other ones. These are beautiful drawings. We don't see the practice ones. We're not seeing the drafts. What's the deal with that? I think they must just rub them out immediately afterwards. They're just like getting some water and just being like oh God! I think they must just rub them out immediately afterwards. They're just like getting some water and just being like, oh god, that buffalo looks awful.

I'm not going to let anyone see that. This woolly mammoth looks like absolute shit. It's very strange. Maybe there's just like, I don't know. Yeah, it's very weird. Ah, 37,000 BC, the Venus of Holophels is carved from a piece of mammoth ivory, what is now Germany, thiiiiii, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi, thi, that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiiiiiolole, that's that's thiololomea, that's that's thiolomea, that ba, that, that, weird. 37,000 BC, the Venus of Holophelz is carved from a piece of mammoth ivory, what is now Germany, likely by a chrome magnan, before we killed those sons of bitches. There's a thing I was reading where they sort of, you know, all we can do is look at this. It's one of the statues we classify.

It's usually a sort of like totemicat fertility thing, where it is abroad with huge cans. It's nice that's sort of passed through the ages. The concept of a lady with big jugs and a dump track ass has been with us for 40,000 years now. One of the things I saw was they described it as possibly having pornographic use. Like someone whittled this out of mammoth ivory and there was just like, I'm just gonna go out into the scrub for a little while with my little, my little Venus for a second, I'll be right back. Don't, don't come looking for me.

Now my child. The third cave from the right, full of unimaginable horrors. You must never enter the third cave from the right. Oh, so many scary predators in there and sometimes they make weird grunting, heavy breathing. You think there's like tiddy tribes and arse tribes? All right, that's actually how they classify the venuses. Some divide to tittee venuses the horses the horses the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thribes. That's actually how they classify the venuses. Sub-divided to titty venuses and arse tribes. And the rare ambi venous. It's got both, baby. 71,000 BC. Oaker crayons are used to draw crosshatching on a cave wall in southern tip of Africa.

73,000 god damn years ago people made crayons and started drawing sort of geometric patterns on war. But not just geometric patterns, they've got, so it's like, you've got full-tone and you've got nothing and they've gone, well what if there was something sort of, some subtlety in between. Some sort of half-tone and they invented comics at that point. Sorry, this is actually, what I meant to say is this is the history of Garfield going back to the start of view of evolution. So this is that, um, Blombos Cave, I think that place is called. I don't know why I didn't write that down. he is so so so so so so so so the so the so the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho thoom so thoom. the. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. tho. tho. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. So, the. the. So, the. So, theee. So, theeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. So, thee. So, the. So, the. Sothink that place is called, I don't know why I didn't write that down, is so far the candidate for the single oldest piece of art by a modern human that we have. But that's not as far back as it goes.

500,000 BC, roughly, a Homo erectus in what is now Java, carves a geometric pattern into the back of a shell. So we found these shells that have these sort of, again it's kind of a cross-hatch sort of pattern, carved on the back of some shells, near some other shells that were also used for tool use from what we can tell. So this is 500,000 years ago. So this is not modern humans, these are homo erectus, which look similar-ish to us, but they're, you know, more stooped, hairier. So it's sort of like the difference between, say, you and me. I'm enjoying that I'm the more highly involved one. Oh absolutely. I have a horrible posture at a very pronounced forehead. But that's not as far back as art goes, God damn it.

Before that, between 2.9 and 2.5 million BC, someone picks up a rock. And it's a very special rock. Here is a description of that rock from a 1998 journal article from the archaeologist Robert Benneric an Australian man published in the South African Archaeological Bulletin. Here we go and I'm probably going to pronounce it the right way the first time and that I'm going to pronounce it the easy way all the other times. The Makar Panzhat Cobble is 83.3 millimeters long, 69.5 millimeters wide, and 38.4 millimeters thick of an overall well-rounded, symmetrical and somewhat flattened shape.

Weighs about 260 grams and consists of a reddish-brown jasperite of locally variable composition. It is crisscrossed by a network of numerous grayish-green quartz veins that range in thickness from 0.2 to 1 millimeters. This stone bears a surprising similarity to that of a jasperite pleiostocene quarry I discovered recently on the Indonesian island of Roti, i.e. also on one of the Gondwana land plates. An early erosion phase has given rise to several grooves and depressions where less resistant

inclusions have been worn away. The most prominent of these are three major depressions located centrally and symmetrically on one of the two flattened surfaces. Their striking appearance and distinctive arrangement strongly convey the impression of a face. Although this may not be the orientation in which Australopithecus would have viewed the cobble, dart 1974, for the purpose of description, I will call these three features here the eyes and mouth of the cobble. Previously the object has been described as a pebble but that is technically incorrect as the terms, ter-termed-termed-te-te-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-n-n-o-o-o-o-n-n-n-n-n-n-ni, their, the-d, their-o-o-d, their-n, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their-n, their-n, their-n, their-d, their-d, their-d.e, their-d.-d.-de, the, thi-dea-dea-dea-dictyyyr-dicty.ea-dicty.e, thii.e, thrii.e, their-d. I, thi cobble. Previously, the object has been described as a pebble, but that is technically incorrect,

as the terms pebble and cobble have distinctive granulometric meanings. Didn't know that. So, it's a rock, smallish, looks like it has a face on it. It looks all the world like the shit happens, smiley face. Yes, but like pained. Just like in a more pained expression. So this rock was found in 1925 and a cave in the Markupon Valley in South Africa by a school teacher named Wilfred Eitzman.

Most importantly, it was discovered amongst a whole mess of astralopithicus africanus bones. Now this in itself is not crazy interesting. Rocks and bones go together like a thio. the expression. th expression. the thine expression. thine thine th. thine thine. the like the like the like the the the like the like the the the like the like the like the the like the the like the. the. So the. So the. So the. So th. So th. So th. So th. So the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. So the th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So, the the. So, the. So, the. the. the. the. the. the. theateateateateateateateateateat. theateeat. theateeate. the. So, the. Now this in itself is not crazy interesting. Rocks and bones go together like a Theo and a Ben, as I've written here in the notes. Love to find rocks and bones with each other. Here is a snippet from that same article describing what makes it interesting. This brings us to the main issue relating to the Macapans cut cobble. According to Dart, the nearest known

source of such stone is 32 kilometers from the site, although B. McGuire suggests that it could have come from a banded ironstone outcropping 4.8 kilometers north-northeast of the linework site. However, the cobble clearly originates from a silicious conglomerate and its initial provenance cannot be established, since the cave contained no border transported sediments that could have entered from some high-lying locality, the cobble could have been introduced only artificially. It is much too large to have been the gut of some bird, lull. And he's not talking about a lady here. And since it goes at a late Pleosene deposit, it is not likely to have been transported by humans.

The most parsimonious conclusion is that it was carried into the cave by the Australopithecines whose remains occur in the same deposit. So, what he's saying there is that that rock was carried there by some Australopithecus Africanus. Yeah, they saw a rock were able to think that's a nice rock. Yes. There's something aesthetically pleasing about that particular rock. And I want you to, so you might not be an expert on the, well, you maybe you are, I don't know, of the various kinds of hominid that are in our sort of line of evolution. Australopithecus africanus does not look a whole lot like us.

If you, if you Google that right now, have a look at an image, give yourself some context. They look closer to like the monkeys at the start of 2001 than they do to us now. that's about where we're th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi th. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. theeea. to, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi to us now. That's about where we're at timeline-wise. You also could probably surmise from that that they don't have pockets. No, that was my other thought as well. They don't have tote bags, backpacks, those travel socks. Not even the classic bum bag. No, not even bum bags. So it's an act of quite a lot of intentionality to carry an object, whether it's 5 kilometers or 32 kilometers. That requires a lot of conscious effort, right? Especially if that object has no immediate utility to you.

So the suggestion here is that it's a manuport, which is a natural object which has been moved from its original context by human agency, but remains otherwise unmodified. So this is something we have ascribed some sort of significance to. And if it is one, it's the oldest one we've ever found. The further suggestion being that this represents the oldest example of symbolic thinking in any of our hominid ancestors, right, of ascribing meaning to something that is not inherent to it. Yeah, so the long thought on this is that they were able to recognize an abstraction of themselves

in this rock. Yes. In the appearance of this rock, which has two dots in a little groove, which we immediately recognize as a smiley face. Yeah, we look at it and we go, hey, look at this little guy. Hey, just like us. Here's something else. This is from prehistorian, James Harrod. Geologic history indicates that was probably picked out of a slow floating stream or flood channel, sorry, slow flowing stream or flood channel, and

carried for a considerable distance into the cave, which has astralopithicus, africanus and other, which has a considerable to the caveats, its red color, which would have been highly distinctive in its geologic setting, quartz, inclusions, and anthropomorphic features, Bednerick observes, I have never seen a natural stone object with such remarkable visual properties. Dart and others have noted the piece has three faces depending on orientation. Face one, shown, I'm sorry, this is accompanied by images in the original text, but this is the obvious one. If you Google Makapan's got pebble, it's the orientation it's always shown in from the front face. For face two, turn it upside down. That's a fun little thing you can do, turn your computer upside down. And the obverse side has face three. Dart interprets face two as australopithe like, face three is possibly a toothless oldster.

Bedneric suggests that Phase 3 presents a face resembling the reconstruction of an Australopithecine face, wearing a friendly, if somewhat mischievous grin. Face 1 would be too much like a current sapien's face. In either case, all agree that the individual who carried to the site had an iconographic sense. This is the earliest evidence for aesthetic sense in the hominid line. Bednery concludes based on the object that it is, in my view, essential to expect a stroller perceived behavior to be significantly more complex in a cultural and cognitive sense than that of any extant non-human primate.

So yeah, that's just wild. It's a wild thing to picture that, you know, some some some a man is walking along, sees the thing in a stream. He's like, hey, that's a shiny red rock. He looks at it. He sees two little dots. He sees a mouth and he's just like. Holy fuck. Everyone is going to go fucking nuts for this when I take it back to the cave. This that's just like, just like, that. It's like, th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's like, the thi. It's like, the the the the the the thi. It's like, the the the the the the the the th. It's the th. It's the the th. It's the the the thin. It's thi's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. He's thi. He's things. He's things. He's things. He's things. He's things. He's things things. things things things things things things things things things things things. He's things things things things. He's th cave. This comes just like Dennis. Oh my god, I bet it was absolutely used as an own. Just like gets back and he's like, ah! Hey, that's you. That's you. That's your mate, just pointing at it. This is how Benrick concluded his article. There's a tiny little bit of repetition here from the last thing, sorry.

The visual properties the Makabank Kobel are so striking that some that some just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just that some that some that some that some that some this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this th gets gets gets gets gets th gets gets gets gets gets gets gets of repetition here from the last thing, sorry, the visual properties the Makapans-Kobal are so striking that some commentators have found it hard to believe that it is simply a natural product. That, however, is precisely what it is. It bears no trace of any artificial modification. Having examined vast numbers of silica nodules and other natural phenomena of often fantastic shapes, I confess that I have never seen a natural stone object with such remarkable visual properties. The symmetry of the eyes in particular, especially in relation to the headlike shape of the stone, is impossible to overlook. And this feature has an almost menacing quality.

I concur with Eitman, Dart and Oakley, that the subject was collected by Australopithe scenes, for its visual qualities and that its iconographic properties were recognized by these creatures. As Dart has pointed out, the face most readily perceived in the object by modern humans resembles human features, which it could not have been recognized as such by Australopithecis. However, when the stone is turned over, it presents a face resembling the reconstruction of a strilopithicine face wearing a friendly of somewhat misdemeanor. Perhaps this was the orientation astralopithicus would th. th. th. th was the orientation Australopithecus would have preferred, although I feel that the staring eyes are far more prominent, and in combination with the striking color, led to the object being picked up. Wonderful. Just tremendous. I love this thing so much. I think about it so often.

Just such a weirdly human connection with an ancestor that is so, so incredibly distant from us. And also just like, the amount of coincidences involved here for this to be th th th th th th th th th th and thi, th th thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in the the the the the the the the, and in, and in, and in, and in, and in in, and in in in in in, and in in in in in in in in in in the the the the the the their, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, and in thi, in thi, in a thi, in a thi, in a thi,the amount of coincidences involved here for this to be a thing, you know, in terms of like, for all of the natural processes to, like, it's not particularly hard for humans to see faces in things, but I mean, to end up with the symmetrical eyes and a kind of mouth, you know, this is a process that would have, that rock would have been formed over millions of years. It somehow ends up in a stream bed. One of these guys just happens to walk past it of millions and millions of rocks, picks

it up, carries it all the way home. It ends up sitting in a cave and somehow, you know, a school teacher in the 20s goes and checks it out and then he sees this rock lying among the bones and he's like holy shit this is probably an important rock and then now you know some a hundred years later here we are talking about it what a chain of events what a chain of events. What a chain of events? I think that's probably the end of the first theophiles. I'd say so. Which we've recorded after we finished the the the the the the th th th thine the the th th th th th th th th th th thethe end of the first theophiles.

I'd say so. Which we've recorded after we finished recording the end of the second one. For reasons we're not going to go into. But we will say that we did lose the molders butt hole. Yep. 15 minutes on molders butt hole. Molder jacking off. There's some great stuff in there. Yep, all lost to the sands of time.

Some great gags. But you know what, we experience them? And that's probably more important than the list now having experience them. Yeah, that's right. I'm entirely sure about that one now to think about it actually. So if we do more of these, which we already have, we will chuck them. If we are going to have had done more of them, which we did. Yep. Say we had, we'll eventually chuck them on the bonus feed. So if you do want to hear more of that, then head on over to Patreon.

to Com slash Buntavista, and you can check them out. If you don't want to hear more of them, then we probably won't put any more on the main feed. So more fool us. Yeah, I mean that actually kind of works for everyone. Yeah, let us know if you like them. We thought this would be a fun format for us personally to do. Fuck Andrew and Lucy don't really care what they think. If you want more. As soon as they can drink beer in the same room as us, they can come on the Theophiles. That's true. Wouldn't that be nice? I'd love to see them both.

Ah well, what are you going to do? All right, stay safe out there, everyone. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye. you