Brain Soda Podcast - Episode 12 - 2001: A Mackinamazon Odyssey

Episode Date: April 22, 2023

This week we'll be discussing 2001: A Space Odyssey, Mackinaw Island, and the Amazon rainforest! 

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Shelly Duvall Shattering Brain Soda Podcast. As always, I am your host, Kyle, with my co-hosts, Frog, in the Woods, and Brad. How's it going? Today, we're going to be taking a look at the Amazon, discussing the history of Mackinac Island. But first, in 1968, a revolutionary film came out, directed and written by Stanley Kruber. Today, we are talking about 2001, A Space Odyssey. And one of the main reasons I wanted to talk about this film, guys, is that not only is it super revolutionary and influential for the time that it was shot, the genre that it rests in,

but also looking at what the projected outcome was for technologies of the future is a large crux of this film. Aside from some of the notable things that come from it, it is a great film if you're able to get past, like, the early 70s, late 60s, tropes that you can see in the filmmaking of it. And it is. It is hard. Do you guys know anything about the film? I know the name. Yeah, it's difficult to get over that.

Yeah, no. I haven't watched it either. Like, I know the name. But, like, I mean, I know references to it. And, like, has it influenced a lot of, like, modern technology? It's like a Sylvia Brown kind of predicted what technology looked like. So a little bit. We'll talk about that first, just because it is kind of the crux of why we're discussing it today. So long vertical screens were used in a spaceship scene.

They had things like tablets, and they were doing video calls from outer space. In the 60s. Right, exactly. Kubrick kind of believed that this was the things that we were going to see. Now, he wrote the screenplay for this film with Arthur C. Clarke, and it's based off a short story Clarke had originally done known as the Sentinel. So, starting from there, this isn't just Kubrick alone. And they both consulted with Carl Sagan about some other things as well

that we'll discuss a little bit further in. For that element, I kind of wanted to note that Carl Sagan and Arthur C. Clarke and Stanley Kubrick are all big brains, right? They're all smart people who influenced the fields that they were in tremendously so. So to have them together on any body of work makes this thing amazing. But for a screenplay, there's like 88 minutes grand total of this film that's silent. It's silent? There's no...

Well, silent as in there's sound and things like that, but there's not dialogue. There's not a real script. The first like 20 so-minutes of the film are maybe the most well-known, and that is because it's the monolith scene with all the apes. On a soundstage, Kubrick took photos and projected them live on a glass pane, like a non-reflective glass pane, to recreate... I don't know what you would call it. There's some rock formations in this like hillock thing around pool of water,

but essentially it's about two tribes of apes fighting against this pool of water. One tribe is... Was it like a 3D image then? Are you saying the landscape is used with these glass panes? Yeah, so if you know how a lot of these films were done back in the day, they would usually use matte paintings. Okay. Yeah, I know that.

This was done on reflectional glass or non-reflectional glass, I guess. Wow. Yeah, so yeah, and it's really cool. And I believe the reason why they did that was because, and there's like hundreds of bulbs up above them on this soundstage, so they can get color temperature and things like that done right. But what they would do was they would... Well, right, obviously.

Yeah. But the other thing is that they would specifically set those lights and reverse the image or cool the color palette and like put a blue hue over the lights or whatever it would be. So that way you had day shots, night shots. You know what I mean? Like just different inverse things. And the sound set was set up on a turntable.

So at one point when these two warring factions, these two tribes of essentially Neanderthals, are like competing over this water source, what they did was they shot one side of it, flip the stage, and then shot from the other side. Go ahead. Is this cream of the crop production at the time? Yes.

This is one of the things I will say about a film from 1968. It's one of the best looking films even to this day with like, I'm sure the remastering of the film is probably done top notch, but regardless of which, like, he is such a meticulous artisan of the cinematography he does. And he was a well-known photographer in general, Kubrick was. But like, he did a whole film later on called Barry,

I believe it's pronounced Barry Lighten, but regardless, almost the entirety of that film is shot by sun or candlelight. That's, yeah. Like there's little to no artificial light used in that film. To do something like that is a testament to cinematography and production work overall. Yeah, I'd say Kubrick is probably one of the best like filmmakers ever. If not the best.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he totally traumatized Sherry Duvall, but absolutely, I agree. He is probably the most important influential director of my time. We can talk about him wholesale later because I really do plan to, but moving on from that, so this is where the kind of the through line of the film comes in.

These Neanderthals are fighting over a water source. They're a vegetarian, right? One tribe is pushed out from the watering source. They are also like prey to a mountain lion, which they really had on set. And these are all dudes in costumes performing as these Neanderthal ape type things, right? Yeah. So is it like Pine of the Apes then?

Does it look like put? No. No, no, no, no, no. Only the first two minutes. Like, I mean, do they look like Planet of the Apes? Apes? Or I'm just trying to think. Not in like a humanoid form.

They look far closer to a primate than they do a human being, but there's characteristics there that kind of differentiate between either. So anyway, this tribe wakes up in the morning to find a long black monolith standing in front of like the opening to their cave. And they slowly start to touch it and like get more and more excited and like inquisitive about it. And then I've had those mornings where I wake up to a long black monolith and I get excited and start to touch it and see what it's all about.

I was wondering how long homoeroticism was going to take to come to our podcast. I'm glad it's only episode 12. So anyway, we waited at least 10 episodes. So one of them finds a bone from a skeleton and then realizes he can use it as a tool, specifically a weapon. He then like brains the monkey at the head of the other tribe over the watering source and then they have thus conquered the watering source. He throws that bone up in the air and they like flip that shot from being the bone up in air

to a celebration to a space shuttle out in space. A million years later in a single shot in a single transition. It's beautiful. That's kind of crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That is actually perfect. But like one of the things I love is just that that scene that we just referenced with the spaceships

because Kubrick instead of doing the stereotypical like try to make something sound as futuristic as possible use classical music to display all of these cool prototype models for spacecraft that people from NASA actually consulted on this film for. And like because they were so good and so detailed and intricate, he had all of them destroyed so nobody could repurpose them for their science fiction film in 10 years. Really? Yeah. Yep.

One thing, Neil deGrasse, I said early back in the day, you know, like I used to watch a lot of his stuff, but one thing he used to always talk about was Titanic and how they had an inaccurate sky. So like he wrote James Cameron about it and then when they remastered it, they put the accurate sky and everything in there. That just made me think of that. Oh yeah. No. Absolutely.

And like I feel like there are continuity errors you can find in this film and there are things like that that can be found in probably nearly any film if you look hard enough. I feel like Kubrick's the kind of guy who wouldn't let that fly nine times out of 10, but in my research I found like there are like small continuity errors between the way people are holding things, the way certain things are shot, et cetera, that like you can tell there's been a cut there, you can tell this is a separate take. Well, it was the 60s. I could even tell like, I mean, I think that like Kubrick to me, the shining is like his shining magnum opus.

Yeah, I guess. I mean, maybe not. That's the one I've seen the most, you know, and yeah, like there's it's still, I just watched it recently. And like, yeah, it's not like it holds up, but you can tell it's an older movie. You know, like filmmaking has progressed greatly. It's a forgivable thing. Absolutely. But like for as much of a perfectionist as Kubrick was, there's still continuity errors.

So like, I understand James Cameron going, it looks like a guy throw it in. You know what I mean? Like, I totally get it. Exactly. Right. So with that being said, that monolith reappears throughout the film on the moon and later at the very end of the film. And it spoilers is an analogy for aliens. That's what I kind of, I thought it was.

That's right. Everybody spike your hair up. Aliens. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And like the very end of the film, Carl Sagan was reached out to to help them decide how they were going to characterize alien life, alien intelligence, being a part of this narrative.

Right. Who's Carl Sagan? And one of the most important scientific minds of like the early 70s. Right. Yeah. A quick rundown. He was like a physicist that, I mean, I know. I wanted to say he was an astrophysicist.

Yeah. He was astrophysicist. Astrophysicist for sure. Okay. He's the guy who did the original cosmos. The original cosmos. He was the first like educator, science educator. Okay.

Not the first, but he was one of the like the most well-known. Prominent. A guy to look up for sure. Yeah. Like if you know who Neil deGrasse Tyson is, right? Yes. Yes. So he was like, imagine him in the 70s.

Essentially like that was kind of, it's Carl Sagan. Like that's Carl Sagan's, you know, like Neil deGrasse Tyson kind of emulates him in a sense. Okay. Wasn't he like directly trained or learned from Sagan? He did go to, yeah. He took a couple of classes with him. Okay. Yeah.

And he rebooted the Cosmo series too. So like, but I mean, yeah. Neil deGrasse Tyson stuff is awesome too. Yes, absolutely. So one of the things that this film ends up touching on later on when you're actually in space with astronauts is artificial intelligence as well. And you have the Hal 9000 this infallible computer. At least it's programmed and designed to be so.

And then once the members of the crew start to like, wonder why it's not purporting accurate information, they think they need to shut it down. How lip reads these guys in a pod and decides he's going to murder them locks one of the guys out. And another famous scene is the, I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that when Dave is trying to get back into the ship and eventually he like takes out hardware to turn Hal off and shut him down. And the whole time he is sitting there pleading with him and whatever else.

And like, one of the analogies I find with it is manipulative behavior. So like, again, Kubrick being the mind that he is as a filmmaker, I feel like it's hitting artificial intelligence, evolution, aliens, mental illness and relationships. Like, just all of these things hit and like, it's a wah chef's kiss. But by the end of the film, the last monolith that you see is an astronaut who has went through what they call stargate and everything I've looked up through. He's literally just beams of color and light flashing through the screen. And then he ends up in a room and spends different times looking around this room taking it all.

And it's like this faux French architecture designed specifically to be noticeably inaccurate as if aliens watching someone in a habitat they would be familiar and comfortable with, right? And he would like look over to a different element of the room and then find himself in a later state of aging until the point where he is on his deathbed. He looks up and sees the monolith from his bed and then becomes a star child. And it's like, it's so out there that it could easily drop a lot of people. But for me, it's one of those things that it just brings a wholesale where you could start as a ape and end up being a star baby.

Okay, star child, do you mean like he becomes a star or like he becomes part of this? Hey, God like a creature in a like womb type state. That's actually awesome. I mean, like, well, this, that's kind of definitely, that definitely has Carl Sagan's handprint on it because he like, yeah, that's kind of like, you know, he was like, we're all star dust. You know, it's true though, is that like, if you really think about it, we are just all part of the universe.

Like, you know, that's kind of how that's my philosophy is that like, we're just, we're just start us like we started off as atoms and we end as atoms. So when we die, we just go back into the universe as part of the, the, the great ran universe, not to get all like, you know, spiritually on you guys and stuff. But yeah. No, no, absolutely though. I mean, and I feel like that is part of it too is for being a regular guy, not a regular guy, because he's an astronaut in space or whatever else.

But at this point, everybody is space faring, right? So it's not terribly inaccurate. But like, for me, from being a typical man to doing something great and striving, even though that guy literally just shuts down how survives the events of the film and has now ascended through alien means, right? Like, regardless of which you can take whatever situation you have to face adversity through and may fall into your lap and do something great with as well. That's great.

So I have a question real quick. Absolutely. Was the 2001 Space Odyssey based on anything? Or was it all original? So it, and I, yes, like I said earlier, it originally as a concept, it was founded off Arthur C. Clarke short novel search story, The Sentinel. And then he contacted Arthur C. Clarke to write the screenplay for this film. Now, later on, they did a sequel in the 80s with Jonathan Lithgow and Helen Muren.

I mean, so like there's there's a bit more of a cast that we would know. But 2010, the year we make contact is its direct sequel. And it's written only by Arthur C. Clarke. Kubrick has like no involvement in this film. And like, I've never really heard about it until I started researching this film. If you want to check out any of this, watch the film. You can read The Sentinel. You can read the book that is pretty much the screenplay.

But as a prose novel, you can even watch 2010. But yeah, no, it has its kind of own continuity, if that makes sense. And this is standalone, I would say, the thing you should watch and or read. The only complaint I had was but there's a point where they get to a moon rover after they're just kind of in space. And I'm like, why couldn't we have been here 30 minutes earlier? But the reason why is because like RCA and GE and NASA and all these different people gave them panels and prototypes and helped design models for them to kind of articulate what future technology might be like. That is really cool.

That's awesome that NASA was involved. I didn't know that. It is super cool. I mean, because it's a whole it's a whole thing. It's not just over making a movie. No, we're merging with some big wigs, some big industry. Yeah, RCA. Yeah, I mean, tons of places.

So with that, why don't we hear a little bit about the history of Mackinac Island? Yeah, there was some big wigs there, too. I mean, well, fur wigs, but yeah. So I mean, I know you guys are pretty familiar with Mackinac Island, right? Like, I mean, it's never been, but yes. I have been. Yes, I've been once. And but I mean, our listeners probably aren't familiar with this little tiny island on the

north side of the lower peninsula of Michigan. But yeah, so Mackinac Island, it is an island in between the northern and lower peninsula of Michigan in the United States. It's a little tiny island, but it has so much history. It's crazy. Like, I don't understand why this little island became like a central trading post and stuff like that. I'll get into that in a little bit.

So Mackinac Island, it formed around 15,000 years ago with the rest of Michigan. Like when the Ice Age ended and the glaciers started receding, like that's pretty much how our state was made. You know, like through that, like just all the rocks and everything like is pulling and all that. That's how we get all the lakes and the rivers. And I was going to say that rock hunters like me, we love the history of Michigan because of that.

Exactly. Like Michigan is a beautiful state. I love it. There's so much to do and like it's a beautiful island and state. So yeah, so while actually the glaciers melted, like it carved out the Great Lakes as well. So that's how the Great Lakes started was glacial melts and everything. And Mackinac Island just happened to be like one of the higher points in the Great Lakes and ended up forming around that time.

So the name Mackinaw is actually a shortened form of the Ojibwe word mission Mackinac or Mitcha Mackinac. So, but it's translated into French, which was translated into Michel Mackinac. And the way that it's spelled does this whole Mackinac Mackinaw debate is the reason why that is, is because the French pronounce the C's at the end with a W. So that's where Mackinaw comes from is from the French translation. Oh, okay. Okay.

And what this translates to is big turtle. And if the reason why is if you look at the island, it looks like a turtle kind of a little bit. But, Oh, yeah, I can see it. Yeah. Yeah. Like it looks a little bit like a turtle.

Yeah, I can see that. Like a snapping turtle. I see. Yeah. Yeah. And there's plenty of them around there. I'm sure. So like archeological evidence points to like human reputation back to like 900 CE or so.

So like pretty far back, but like, you know, not like ancient, but it's just a little wily, you know, and it was mostly this Anishinaabe people. I'll get into that a little bit, but that's like the tribe around the area, like in Michigan in general, and like they extended kind of farther off from Michigan, but the Anishinaabe, and you'll probably recognize a few of the names of the tribes. And when I started naming them, just because, you know, we've grown up in Michigan and, you know, they like names, like, yeah, you know, the tribes. So yeah.

So the, the, an earlier story to name Andrew Blackbird, which was actually, he was like, you know, his grandpa was, I think, an Ottawa Ojibway chief. He did a lot of research on the island and he found that the, like it was inhabited by the small tribe called the Mission of Mackie Nagao. I hope I said that right. But they were eventually kind of confederated into the Ottawa tribe, right? And one winter the Iroquois people, a group of them, the Seneca, you've heard of the Iroquois? They were like from the eastern side of the U.S.?

Yeah. Yeah, they came actually and attacked the island and like wiped them all out. Like only two of the Mission of Mackie Nagao survived. They like hid in a cave and everything. So like these were like, you know, a tribe that, yeah, are gone now. Essentially. And like, so that's like, I don't know when people talk about it, like the natives and stuff, you know, they, they, they forget like that, like these were like boring people,

you know, like there's so much history. We don't know about this, about this, this country, about all these, like just all the tribal warfare and everything. It just blows my mind. Right. But to be a fly on the wall in history at any year, at any given time. Exactly. Like I just wish there was time machines.

Oh, yeah. So the Iroquois are like five nations, like they're a Confederacy. And actually some of our, the Constitution was kind of based a little bit on that Confederacy, like the way they like were, you know, like the states and everything were kind of based on that little bit. Right. Because they were all coexisting principalities of landmasses, right? Like, but it's crazy.

They were, I didn't know they like travel all the way to Michigan, you know, and I thought there were more of like New York, Pennsylvania type, but that's pretty close. Honestly, if you think about it. If you look at Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan, how much Native American like architecture comes into our naming constructs for things. Oh, yeah. You know, there was so, there was so much natives. I mean, because like the waters, man.

Yeah, yeah. There's so much water. It was such a, it is, it wasn't, it is a rich state. We have so much different like trains and habitats and everything. It's, yeah. But yeah, so like, so Mackinac Island, like the Anishinaabe people, they believe that, that it was like home to like a great spirit. They call it the Gitchy Manitow and like the turtle was a sacred figure to them and stuff

like that. You know, like they use it as like a burial ground for the chiefs and things like that. And they, like according to legend, the Mackinac Island was the first, the first island of land to appear after the great flood in their culture. So the great flood, you know, happens in more than just like Christianity, like I guess these Anishinaabe people had a great flood myth as well. But this great hair, Michibao, was created the land according to them. Yeah.

You know, like, so these Anishinaabe people, right? Some of the, some of the groups that were part of them were the Ottawa, the Ojibwe and the Potawatami. Like, have you guys heard of any of them? The Ojibwe, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I've heard of the first two, too. But like the Potawatami, I think they were like, I've heard of them too, but like, I don't think they were. Not as frequent. I don't know if they're around even anymore. But like, yeah, I think the Ojibwe and the Ottawa, if I'm not mistaken, are still like active tribes in the area.

Yeah. And like, yeah, most of the reservations, I think, are Ottawa and Ojibwe in Michigan. Well, out here adjacent to us Ojibwe is the biggest tribe, I believe, because like Mount Pleasant, right? Well, no, there's Ojibwe out there, mind you. Yeah. Well, there's Ojibwe out there, too. Yeah.

Yeah. That's like, yeah, Ojibwe, Ojibwe. Yeah. Yeah. Same people. So, I mean, the natives, obviously, like use that as like, it's the reason I think why the island was used so much is because it's close to the northern peninsula. And like, when you like, the currents and stuff like lead to that island kind of, it's

kind of like a stop point, you know? There's another bigger island, like right below it, Boy's Blank, I think it's called. But like, it's not as habitable, you know, there's like no good beaches and stuff like that. So like, the better island was the better island to, you know, do like fishing and trading and stuff like that on. And because of that, the Europeans, when they came through, the French were the first to find that.

And like, the French were around in, like they traveled through Canada and everything first, you know, like that's where they kind of settled more versus like the English, you know, along the eastern coast, like the Canadians went all the way through, like fur trading and stuff like that. So like, they were actually there, like in 1634 was when they discovered the island. So like, that's pretty dang early, like in US history. They didn't actually stay there until I think it was like 1671 when the missionary was established there.

And it was established by somebody I thought I had his name down, but I guess not. But shortly after that, a guy named Jack Marquette succeeded him. And after like, you know, Marquette, you know, that's a big day, like there's a Marquette city and everything in Michigan now that I'm sure you guys, it's a big, pretty big city. I think it's UP, right? Yeah. I used to live in Marquette as a kid. Right?

Yep. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's cool. Yeah. So like, you know, like he, he established St. Ignis as well. He moved the missionary over to St. Ignis, which is like the town like right adjacent to Mackinac Island. That's the rock capital of the world.

Is it? Is that, you guys go rock hunting up there? No, but I'm pretty sure that's where some good stuff is. Really? Okay. Because we're talking about the state is an island royal over that way. I think that's in the south of the state, not the state, or maybe it's like, or it's up above the UP.

That's where the state stone is, I do believe. Oh yeah. Like the Pataske's Cove? No, the Royal Green Stone. Our state stone is the Pataske's Stone, I thought, isn't it? Yeah. Iroil is like way in the, like the northern side of Michigan, the UP, then like northwest side.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So there's a park there. That park with his namesake, and there's like a statue and stuff of him. And then I guess, I guess it's one of the best picnic spots on the island. But yeah, by the 1700s. So like Mackinac became this like trading hub for fur, like that was huge in Michigan

around that time, especially the northern Michigan, like Ontario and all that. Like that was, like fur trading was the thing, beaver and all that, and raccoons and whatnot. So like that was like the hub for that area. And it became like pretty, pretty popular around that time, you know, like, and more as a trading hub. Not like as like the tourist island it is today. But in 1715, the French built Fort Michelin Mackinac at the tip of the lower peninsula. So not on the island, but like it kind of adjacent to the island.

That's where you take off today to get to the island on the ferries and all that. And I think there's like remnants of the fort. I don't think it's still present there now. But it's in President Mackinac City, though, after the French and Indian War, which kind of happened mostly in Canada, you know, like Michigan and all that area. I love that. It was, I mean, not seeing that war is good, but that's a fun piece of history to learn. It is because it like it sets up the Revolutionary War.

It really does. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like without that war, the Revolutionary War, whatever would have happened because the whole point of the taxation was to pay back the seven years war of the French and Indian War. Yeah. And like George Washington fought it and everything like, yeah, that's what made him

big, you know. Yeah. So like, I mean, we, we, we could spend all day on that topic. One day. You know, maybe I'll, that'd be a good topic. So the French and Indian War, the British took control of it after that because they won the war, you know, and all that. So they had, they had control of the island, the control of the fur trade and all that.

And Major Patrick Sinclair moved there and actually built the fort on the island itself. And that's Fort Mackinac and that's still there today. And I went there just, I think it was like five to eight years ago, somewhere around that. And man, that's a cool fort. It's so cool. Like, it's, yeah, it's like you're transported back in time. Yeah. It's really cool to see like the, you know, all the, the, where you sleep and everything,

the barracks and all that. It's, yeah. It's, they had like, they have like reenactments there too, so you can like see them like trading and stuff like that. It's pretty cool. It's so fun to be a part of a reenactment. I've always wanted to. Yes.

Yes. That would be cool. It's hard to get that many people that are serious about it. But yeah. So they held it, the, the British obviously held it until the Revolutionary War when they ceded it to the US, the newly formed US, but they didn't actually see it until 19 or 1794 with the J treaty. So it was like, you know, 10 years after the war ended that they actually gave up control

of it. And well, I'll talk about that in a second, but America, you know, came in and they didn't really like treat it as like some like vital place, you know? So like in 1812, when the, when the war of 1812 happened, the British came over and they just, they took over the fort. And they took it. They tried to fight back. Unfortunately.

Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. They kind of just like, yep, we'll take that back. And they, yeah, they, the British, like they, they did build it, like they built another fort on the island, Fort George right behind it. And like, we tried to take it back and it didn't work, but you know, we ended up winning, or I don't know, winning the war of 1812, but after the war of 1812, we got control

back of it. So Fort, Fort George was renamed Fort Holmes because this major Andrew Holmes was like the second, second in command for America or the, you know, the troops that fought the only battle on Mackinac Island or the only European battle was fought at that time. And he died during that time. So they named it Fort Holmes and it's still named that now. But yeah. So the fur trade, that was moving, stayed moving.

And there's this guy named John Jacob Astor and like, I don't know, have you guys ever heard of him? No. No. No. He's like, he was like a magnate, you know, the 1800s, like, you know, the Barrens times and all that. Yeah.

And like, he had the American fur company. So he was like the fur guy essentially, yeah. But he centralized his, his, you know, business on Mackinac Island. So like the American fur company was centered on Mackinac Island and like, that was just like fever pelts were just going through there and like, it was just like, it was a major hub at that point, you know? Yeah. I was going to say it kind of makes sense that it would be there because of all the fauna

there. And then beyond that, like when you think about the commerce that comes through Mackinac Island now, it makes a lot of sense that like that would be an early industrial American hub. Yeah. Well, what I want to know is how does it, how does the trading post work? Is that essentially a building where it's, it's almost like where you trade Pokemon, like where we're going to meet up and trade these Pokemon here and then go about our way.

Or is it like a store that's already there with pre-inventory? Yeah. I mean, kind of like, they actually have some of the original buildings there still and like, they seem like, you know, they would, yeah, like there was like a place to like store the pelts and stuff like that, you know, like where like, you know, people would bring all their pelts and like that, that's where they would like sell the pelts to the mass producer and then they would ship them out to places or like, they would process them there and stuff like that, you know, and like, it's crazy.

Like you, you've got to go up there, man. It is such a beautiful island and I'm going to, I'm going to say the special thing about the island to the end, but yeah, you got to go up there. It's an awesome island. And so yeah, like that, you know, like fishing, like though, like fur trading, you know, that was really big in the 17 and 1800s, but as, you know, like, as we got more, I guess, conscious, I don't even know if it was being conscious of animals. And I think we just like fur came, fell out of fashion.

Unfortunately, like it wasn't because we're like, oh, we're killing all these animals. It was more like, oh, we don't want to wear fur anymore. Well, the practicality of it, yeah, because it's high. Yeah, exactly. But like, I mean, that's unfortunate about humans, but yeah, so like fur fell out of fashion, right? And because of that, like, that was their whole thing. Fishing became kind of the bigger thing there and like, you know, it became more of like

a tourist area instead, like because it was a nice, like it's a beautiful island, you know, and because of that, like, um, sport fish should be more popular and then like tourists from Detroit started coming up there and all that, like big, you know, rich people from Detroit know that started coming up. So that's kind of like what Mackinac Island, that's when like the tourism aspect of Mackinac Island kind of started. But around that same time, um, well, just to clarify, the Royal Isle Stone is the state's gemstone.

Oh, gemstone. Okay. They're rock though. Yes. They're rock. Yeah. I guess there's a difference. Toskey Stone.

Yeah. So we were both right. I'll give you that. Yeah. I'll give you that. So around that time, like in, you know, the late 1800s, 1875 to be exact, this guy named Dr. John R. Bailey lobbied to get the Mackinac Island turned into a national park, which was pretty new at that time.

The only other national park at that time was Yellowstone. And along with Senator Thomas Ferry, they were actually able to do that. So Mackinac Island became the second national park ever in America and the world because like national parks weren't a thing until, you know, like America started them. Right. Who do you ask to have something become a national park? Who does that go through? The federal government.

I think like the state, you know, the house in the Senate passed a law, I'm assuming, and like declare it as protected land and all that. So it's a law. Yeah. But now there's a federal agency. Oh, for sure. Yeah. This is pre the advent of.

But I think it's still. What would it be called? Yeah. No, I'm pretty sure that like, that's part of a natural resources or that's the state one. Yes. I think it's still like, if there's national parks, it's got to be like through a bill, you know, like that's how national parks.

But there's state parks. Exactly. That's a very good point. Yeah. Actually, it was transferred into a state park in 1895. So like for 20 years, it was a national park. And I think it's cool. It was the second national park ever.

You know, like, I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. And Yellowstone is such a touchstone for America, too. Yeah, exactly. You know, like, so like, yeah, because back in the island, like there's, there's awesome like rock formations and caves and like, it's just, it's such a beautiful island, but. History from the, yeah, from all the different wars. Yeah, exactly.

Yep. Yep. Lots of tourists come in there. The Grand Hotel was built in 1880. The Grand Hotel is like this just beautiful Victorian area looking like building and like there's like this huge wraparound porch that you can like sit on and everything and the lobbies all like crazy, the rooms and all that. Like it's, it's, it's still there.

I think they just remodeled it if I'm not mistaken or something like that, expanded or something. But like the one thing about that though, with this Victorian era, like I mentioned, is that the island or, you know, the state has made it to where they have rules where all the buildings need to look Victorian. They wanted to keep that like 19th century look. And also with that, you can't have any cars on the island. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like that's, I think it's like probably one of the only places in the world. It's a bike riding place. Yeah. It's one of the only places in the world, I think that like there's no cars allowed. You have to either horse or bike or walk. Like it's, it's pretty cool.

To go there, you just feel like you're in the blast for a past. I loved it when we went there. I'm like, holy crap, you know, there's just people walking everywhere, horse and buggies everywhere. Yeah. It's, it's a beautiful place. This is years and years ago when my brother had his wedding there, but I'm telling you right now, man, walking along some of those beach fronts on a summer's day, it felt like

you were in like, not the Bahamas, but you know what I mean, this, this excellent immaculate place. Yeah. You know, in a way. Yeah. Yeah. There's something like 500, like a year round residence there. One last thing I wanted to point out about Mackinac Island, and this is something I learned

about it when I, when I went, visited there, I picked up a book and it's not necessarily about the island itself, but about the person is this guy named Dr. William Beaumont. And he was, I don't know if he was a doctor, I think it was just William Beaumont. He was a, he was an army surgeon back in like, Sounded good. Yeah. 1820s, right? That was on the island.

And one day, this 19 year old kid named Alexis St. Martin was shot. Like I think it was an accidental, like shotgun fire, but he got shot in the stomach. Oh yeah. It got caught with like bird shots. Yeah. Yeah. And he got shot in the stomach and like, there was a big old hole right into his stuff, like his actual stomach, you know, and.

Oh, maybe not bird shots. Yeah. I don't think it was bird shots. I mean, yeah. But so like this, you know, Beaumont tried to like, you know, help them out and heal them. And like, but over the year, like this fish, which is like what a hole is called, you know, it wouldn't heal.

Like just like a little flap of like, like tissue and stomach tissue covered the hole, but like when it healed up, you know, and he started like, he realized that he could like look into the St. Martin's stomach. Like this is kind of kind of graphic, I'm sorry. So like through that, like he was kind of like, not very nice to St. Martin. Like the book I read, like he kind of treated him like pretty nastily over the years because like essentially like experimented on him, you know, like, but like put food in there and stuff and like pull food out, like through the hole and all that, but like it's bad,

you know, like it wasn't like science back then was different, obviously, and like what we thought of what to do with humans was different. But like through that, we learned so much about digestion. Like he was, he discovered gastric juice and found out that, like he sent it out and found out that was hydrochloric acid and all that, found out like the way stuff that gets digested, like that melt curdles and then, you know, like vegetables take longer than me and things like that. Like through that, like he was like putting food through this guy's hole in his stomach.

It's just insane to think about in the 1800s, you know, like, Hey, hey, Alexis, come over here. Let me, let me check on that steak from last night. Yeah. Yeah. It was like three years after the, the wound, after the gunshot, like that he started. So like this is three years later, he's like, let me start putting some food in there. Like that hole is not sealing up, you know, like, I just, I don't know.

It's just insane to think about. We got to know. Yeah. We got to know. Yeah. At an expense, but we got to know. Exactly. You know, like, I don't know.

Like, I mean, it's, it's good that, that we were able to find that stuff out, but crazy how we did. Yeah. We can talk about MK Ultra if we want to figure out. No, that's a whole nother. That's true. I'm, they might, you know, M, well MK Ultra, I know the CIA was very heavy into South America. That's not talking about the CIA.

But, well, in the relationship to South America, which the Amazon rainforest isn't in South America. So frog, you want to talk about that? Yeah. The rainforest, I think, I think one of the, I think one of the biggest things we have to take from the world is all of the most beautiful places in the world happen to be the most dangerous places in the world. That's true.

And, and being one of them, the Amazon rainforest, the Brazilian rainforest, it is such a beautiful place from the animals. I mean, I mean, the tribes aren't so beautiful once you get up close and they want to kill you. But like their cultures, how they live, how they're hidden, how they're secretive, how they, how they, how they go all these years with no human contact or technology blows my mind. Are they secretive?

Are they just not part of the globe? You know, like they don't, they, they don't want to be, they don't want contact. They don't want to be seen. So, but I, yeah, okay. I see what you're saying. There's been a few drones go through there and they'll screw it in, right? Yeah. Okay.

So it's like, oh, any type, any part of the world, I don't really, I mean, I did a little bit of research on tribes on the Amazon and there's like close to 400 different types of tribes out there. And I, I would love to talk about the tribes, but as far as pronunciation, misinformation, getting cultures mixed up with different, I'm not going to get into all that today. Right. I mean, but with that being said, them tribes are very dangerous. You know, there's been a lot of people that have tried to communicate with these tribes.

They don't want to be messed with and they will spear you down. They will bow and arrow you, whatever, you know, whatever they do, they just, they aren't dealing with it. So they're so deep. They just leave them alone. We go ahead. Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. How did the, how did the Amazon get its name? Let's get into that because that's kind of, kind of falls in line with what the tribes are Spanish conquistador Francisco de Orlauna. He stumbled into the forest about 1512, which being in 2023, 1512 just seems so long ago. It was. That's a crazy year to think about 1512. So based on that, that's actually pretty early.

Well, I mean, that's 20 years after the office, you know, like that's, yeah, that's the time of conquistadors, unfortunately, real life exploring. That's real life exploring. That's not. Oh, I got gear. I'm going to go into the woods and see what's going on. No, no, that's, we got our backpack and that's it. Yeah.

We don't have lighters. We don't have sleeping bags. So it's, it's crazy to think about, you know, well, because later on, I'm going to mention the different, talk about the different dangerous animals in the Amazon. Like to go through the jungle at 1542, no, no weapons, no, you don't know what these noises are. You, there's no research. There's no books that are telling you anything.

You're, you're, you're figuring it out and all the bugs I think would get to me. Yeah. The bugs. I can't, I just don't, I'm not that guy. They're, they're all over the place too. At all. Like they're just like completely covered. In there.

Oh yeah. You would swear you're on psychedelics if you were to just sit outside the jungle and look in because everything is moving. Like that, like when you think of the jungle, you know, like, even when you see it on like the TV, I guess nowadays for the HD, you kind of see it, but yeah, but it's insane the amount of bugs. This is everywhere. There's bugs everywhere.

Yeah. Well, even with HD man, it's so small that like you have to be able to focus and get a shot of something. So like you'd have to look for it. If you have a subject, even if it is just a big opening of flora, you're not able to pinpoint and locate, like you were saying, you can just see movement. Yeah, even maybe notice that. Exactly.

Now you see the camouflage, everything is camouflaged in that jungle. It's crazy. Exactly. So Francisco was brought in by Gonzalo Pizarro, which happened to be the brother of the conqueror of Peru. So you can understand this Pizarro guys already got like, uh, all right, let's go in here and see what the hell's going on type of attitude. Like he's not, you know, he's based on a family that's taking over stuff.

They're ready to take over the jungle and see what's going on. They did about a year of exploring and they kept running into these problems known as Amazonian women, really, and yo, yeah, um, there was a lot of fierce tribes with these insane warriors that happen to be women. And that's kind of what Oralana, he kind of, he kind of called these Amazonian women. And that's kind of, that's kind of how he described it as the Amazon forest. Okay. So quick, quick question.

Did they have gauntlets that could reflect bullets and lassoes that could force someone to tell the truth? That's great. Invisible jets. Invisible jets. Because I knew you were going to go, you went the comic route. Okay. I went to the Amazon.

Yep. Yep. The Amazons were part, you know, part of the Greek culture and stuff like that, the women that fought. So yeah, that makes sense. You're right. Yeah. So these were legendary female warriors of the Asia Minor and they were just savages

and ruthless. And that's kind of how the Amazon got its name was from these women, the Amazonian women just being in such a brute forest on their, it's the Amazon forest, you know, they were on game here. So really quick. Are these, are these like Spartans, but in a gender role, reversed where like the women are the elite soldiers or are these? I didn't really get into that type of research to where I could answer that question fully.

It's not there. But they didn't speak on it either. I've done a lot of good research on South America and like, yeah, like from what it sounded like, it was just like there was just their women, the women fought too. It was almost like one of one. Yeah. That's what I was saying. Like a bunch of like crazy, you know, huge, like eight-foot-tall women fighting.

It was just like, they're like, oh, women, but women, but women birthed children and et cetera and whatever else. So my point is this, if you're sending, if you, if you have women who are soldiers as well as men, you would believe that those women would defend the home front, not go out and fight invaders. That's my point. I mean, maybe they were like, you know, like Grace O'Malley's, like we talked about. Yeah, exactly.

That's what I was going to say. Yeah. Over here, huh? Stand back. Yep. I mean, okay, the men are strong and protective. Let's keep them here at home while we go out and war on the land. You know what I mean?

Right. That's true. With worlds. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're like, yeah, you could like, cultures are different all over. Like that. I could see that.

Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Just the mindsets are crazy. Yeah. So like, yeah. I mean, you know, there's lots of different species and stuff like that, like the dangerous ones though. Like what is, like, I know that Anaconda's got to be one of the top 10 for sure because

that thing is insane. Most, most Amazonian lists would put the green anaconda at the top of the list, being the largest snake in the world. I mean, it's been known to eat deer, humans, whatever it wants really. Mm-hmm. It's a scary man. I mean, it's fluid outside of land, but you put it in water and it's like Bruce Lee, nothing can stop it.

Right. So, I mean, the green anaconda is at the top of the list, but I mean, dude, the Amazon is just chock full of these. I think everything there is almost worthy of killing because you have to be. I mean, you almost have to be adaptable to whatever. I mean, the vampire bat, that's, that's not really a dangerous creature because it's very light, dives into your opponent, quick, sucks some blood out. The only thing is the rabies.

The rabies with the vampire bat is what. Yeah, bats carry rabies the most, but yeah. One of the most dangerous insects in that forest though is the bullet ant. I mean, you take a bite from a bullet ant and I mean, that's why it has its name essentially is like a gunshot wound to wherever it was been. And then not only is it, it's not like it's like a mosquito bite where it's like, okay, it bites me. I can scratch for a little bit.

It'll leave me alone. No, that it's a 24 hour wound. So I mean, you're sitting there and it just festers. Oh yeah. Just pisses you off really. Now that, that reminds me of that jungle movie that you have me watch with Daniel Radcliffe and like that fire ants, what like they might have met bullet ants, but man, that movie was terrible.

I mean, it was a good movie. Sorry. What do you use those bullets ant? And that's, no, no, because that's what inspired this conversation. That's what inspired this research was watching that movie. I'd seen it before a while back and then I rewatched it again and I was like, God, this is so powerful. Yeah.

And I was like, I would love to do that. To do what? To do what he did? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No. Drop me off. I have no idea what movie you're talking about and I'm like, okay, I'll do it.

He gets lost in the woods and in the jungle. In the Amazon. Okay. Yeah. Not that you just get lost in the woods. In the woods. Yeah. Amazon jungle.

Yeah. The deadliest place you could get lost at. I felt despair watching that movie so much. But he made it out. He did. No. No. He made it out in an unlikely way.

That wouldn't have happened. No. He would die. The craziest. He was about to collapse and nobody was ever going to see his homeboy. If his homeboy didn't look left, which is part of the movie, well, actually it's based on a true story. So I don't know.

Okay. Well, I mean, yeah. It is based on a true story. And I don't know if that part exactly is what, you know what I mean? But I mean, obviously he made it out because at the end they give him the credits. He's still alive. Yeah. He actually lives in the Amazon forest that care, that character.

That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you go back? What though? Because he'd even says it in the description. It's like, oh, well, he goes back to the place that almost took his life. Well, the thing is, that's the thing about the jungle and like what you're saying, like

it, I mean, yeah, there's bugs everywhere, whatever. Like, and that's not even like, that's in a deep jungle. It's a beautiful place though. Like it's so amazing. There's so much biodiversity and like, you can, there's literally, there's more biodiversity in the jungle than there is in like Michigan, you know, like that's how much it's how crazy it is, you know? Right.

Yeah. That's true. Yeah. I believe it. I believe it. Like, I mean, it sucks that like, you know, the deep forestation and all that, like it's, I don't know. Yeah.

That's the whole thing. There, apparently there's like seven million square kilometers of forest. We've touched two million of it. Like cut it down? Not even just cut it down. Just explored it. Okay. All right.

Well, exploring is definitely cutting down, but yeah, we've only explored like two million square kilometers of this, right? That's almost like the ocean. What's, no, what's even crazier is that as they're exploring, they're digging up cities of pre-civilization before the stuff all grew in. Yeah. That's what's even crazier to me. Who knows what we're going to find?

And because they found these, okay, I don't, I don't know if you guys know this, but the the Amazon rainforest is absolutely terrible for soil. I, I understand it sounds crazy because everything grows there. Yeah. But when it comes to, yes, you understand when it comes down to crops, fertile soil, anything like that, anything to feed yourself, that the rainforest is absolutely terrible. It's garbage. Is it, is it rooted?

Is that why? Is because there's so much trees and it's the soil already. The soil is not, so, so there, what, what they're uncovering with this deforestation is that some of these cultures before the forest grew in made their own soil to grow their own vegetables. And that's kind of what, yeah, they would like bury the, like, the, like, the, like, plant material and stuff like that in the ground and burn it. They would char it.

They would burn it. They would char it and burn it. Yep. I don't know exactly what you're talking about, but yeah, like, cause yeah, like, uh, the reason the soil and everything for Terra Pareda, Terra Pareda, yes, that's it. Is a, is a type of very dark, fertile anthropogic soil found in the Amazon basin. Yep. So that's what they were doing and they're uncovering all, they uncovered 2 million

square kilometers. What's in that other five? Exactly. Dude, it's so crazy. It blows my mind just to think about it. Like, imagine being a part of a voyage that could, could you imagine being part of that team? Even if you're just, even if you're just, no, right now, yeah, like imagine going out

there, I mean, cause they don't, I'm sure they don't have people knocking at the door of Amazon's jungle being like, Hey, let me explore you. You know, I imagine being a part of a team that found something interesting and found something worthwhile. Yeah. It would be so cool to be a part of. It would be. There's so much to explore.

Yeah. I would, I would sign up just to be a cook for the team, just to be a part of that voyage. I guarantee you could probably find something like that because there's stuff going on and like that is happening right now. Um, you know, like that's, you know, that's the thing, like, we have to know what's going on there. We have to know. I mean, in order for us to succeed farther in life and get farther past the echelon

that we've already reached, we have to know what else is out there. Yeah. I mean, like, I want, I would like to know what is, like, I would love to know more about the history of South America because it's so rich and we just know nothing about it because of, you know, colonization, unfortunately, but man, so the million dollar question, if you were going to cast the Amazon rain for us, no, you know, I was going to do the same thing to Brad. Brog, that was awesome, man.

I like, I love the Amazon rain forest. I could talk about it all day, but we don't have all day to talk about it. Unfortunately. I, but if you could find some more stuff about tribes or something, I would love to hear about that some more. And with that, Kyle, you want to lead us out and with that, ladies and gentlemen, we would like to thank you for joining us here on the brain soda podcast. Don't be afraid to find us on Facebook.

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