Brain Soda Podcast - Episode 22 - Justice is blind, Liberty Isn’t

Episode Date: July 1, 2023

This week we're talking Frank Miller's original Daredevil series and the Statue of Liberty!

Brainsoda Welcome everyone to the Brain Soda Podcast. I, as always, am your host Kyle, joined by my co-host, Brad. How's it going? Today, we're going to be talking about the Statue of Liberty. But first, also in New York City, were the events of issues 158 following through all the way to 191. This encapsulates the penciling and written works of Frank Miller's initial run on Daredevil. Okay so I you told me like Frank that's what you were doing Frank Miller run. Right and I didn didn't know exactly now what years was this made,

just so I can kind of get an idea. So the initial 10 issues that are penciled by Frank Miller start in 1979, right? Okay. So it's very early 80s. And 83 is when it ends all together. And within a number of months of that ending, Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird,

started their work on the Ninja Turtles, like we had talked about before, when they were inspired by this book. Now, Daredevil's character was kind of like a B-tier Spider-Man and a swashbuckling hero, Matt Murdock, Attorney by Day, Crime Fighter Vigilani by Night. swashbuckling hero, Matt Murdoch, attorney by day, crime fighter vigilante by night, and that's Stan and Bill Everett's book from 1964. And it's a good fun read for a lot of people at the time, but Dare sure the way that the bullpen's and stuff worked like that for writers and artists

For Marvel for a long time and maybe still to this day is you have like lines of books later on during like in the senties Running things like that. I believe Daredevil's part of the X-Men line like he's really yeah He's like an adjacent X-Men character because like during Inferno as an example There's a crossover issue that happens because the events of Inferno and demons and things like that Possessing everything in the kind of in the Marvel universe at that small scope of time Daredevil has a crossover issue in Inferno and the senti's writing X-Men adjacent books Previously to that I believe he was like a spider-man adjacent character published in his book. Okay. And for a while he shared a book with Black Widow. So he's

just kind of all over the place then. Yeah. Like he's with the X-Men and Spider-Man and Black Widow, like Spider-Man and X-Men, well I don't know about the comics, but like, do they, they don't really cross over very often, right? Or... X-Men, I feel like often has deep, deep roots in the Marvel universe, but they're deep, deep because they don't show to the surface as much. You know what I mean? Like X-Men as a whole works really well if it's self-contained. So you don't need Captain America and whoever jumping in every 12 issues to be like, oh yeah, you know the the world outside your window, you know, which is a famous Marvel tab. Yeah, I mean because I mean there's so many X-Men already, so like why do you need to bring it other day?

Yeah, and that's that's part of the reason we have the universe that we do today with it is that it kind of got to be problematic after X-Men was like one of the last books that was really selling in Marvel. But a Spider-Man adjacent character, a swashbuckling hero, that's mostly what Matt Murdock is known for at this time. He's just kind of a B-level hero in the late 70s.

Every book in the 60s forward, especially at Marvel, was this interconnected woven universe, right? So while that did happen to an extent at DC, there's a reason why Marvel took on the phrase The World Outside Your Window because it was all supposed to happen in New York City. All of these heroes were kind of adjacent to one another simply by random chance of proximity, right? Like at many times. There's actually a whole crossover within these first 10 issues. Really? Yeah. Hulk shows up in 163 of the Roger McKenzie run that Frank Miller's penciling. And I will say this, although we're're gonna talk about how much Miller revolutionized this character and took him from being one thing to another. The ten issues that him as a penciler is

doing with other people's scripts are still really good and informative and like it shows where an artist sits as a member and a collaborator of a team, he does end up like getting co-writing at certain points through that before he takes over the book overall. Now when he does that, Daredevil 168, you get the first appearance of Electra and a retcon where during that's college years him and this Greek woman fell in love and this thing ends up happening that separates and divides them and kind of always gives them this situation where they want to be together but there's just going to be these things that pull them apart, right? With Electra returning into Mat's life now as an assassin,

Bullseye, and the kingpin making his debut, four daredevil shortly thereafter. These four elements, these four characters, all kind of weave this narrative through, and Miller's artwork, embellished by Klaus Jansen as the anchor. What's the anchor? The anchor is the guy who will go back over,

redo the lines that were done in pencil, but also add in Shading and coloring and all that. Right, and a lot of those other elements and stuff like that. That really becomes the creative team throughout this through line of About three years, right? Yep. And there's inner weave story of the kingpin situation Where he is very interesting as a character throughout this because he's a Spider-Man villain who was again kind of not taking care of the series. I was gonna say wait yeah I remember him. See most of my experience from Marvel Comics is TV shows and I remember him from the Spider-Man TV show and it was like, you know, like

this big guy with a white suit on, right? That was the kingpin. Right. Yep. And that has been his like most traditional garb and a consistent element of his character throughout. When Frank Miller gets ahold of him, he turns him from that of a character who's taken that life away from himself, living in Japan with a wife, and then because he has like information that could hold up or slow down or stop the mob, they take his wife. And Fisk is then kind of thrust back into this life of crime and fully embraces it. Electro becomes a star assassin. Bullseye is essentially like a complete, you know, wild card just been on the obsession with being a better assassin, bent on like a vendetta against Daredevil. Also working underneath the kingpin and all of these things intertwine and weave into this really gritty story.

Another really interesting thing about this run is that Bullseye, his first appearance is only in 131. A character that only existed a short amount of time later becomes like so integral and a main antagonist of daredevil's for a long time going forward really yeah I would say like almost the main antagonist like that's his joke so he shows up like later and later series or oh yeah definitely yeah he's he's a huge crux of like most daredevil runs I would say to a certain extent going forward. If not kingpin' in bullseye, bullseye. From here on out, every great run, which there are so many with daredevil, I think is attributed directly to these 30 or so issues, right? From bendus to brewbaker, soul, nesenti,

anybody who takes on this character afterwards ends up really kind of having to work off of that at the ground level. Even to an extent, the kind of anti-millar run, which is Mark Wade's run, that does everything it can to take Matt from being the grim, dark hero that he is within Frank Miller's story and kind of return him to being a swashbuckling more optimistic character. And it really works, but there are those elements of times where things are at their grimest or Matt is at a certain point in time where those elements will show through and I feel like they work all that much better because you haven't been in the steeped

grim reality outset from Frank Miller and Klaus Jensen here. The only exposure to Daredevil I have unfortunately is the movie. With Ben Affleck, right? Wasn't that Ben Affleck? That is supposed to be this, yep. That is supposed to be a very loose interpretation of this. Okay, all right, all right. So then I understand what's going on then, all right.

In a sense, like, I was gonna ask, like, I mean, this is sounding a lot like the movies. Now, there's a lot of room for things that were probably better approached in the television show but even still aren't direct adaptations of the single issues that comprise this story, right? But like you have things like the gladiator that Melvin Potter character that we saw a little bit in the Daredevil show on Netflix. You know, he has a fun role to play in some of this turk

who was also featured in the Netflix show kind of prominently. You know, it's always the nice lighthearted element to these stories, these kind of crime fictions, but you also get like stick in the hand, which the hand appears in so much more Marvel material after this. That's a Miller advent from 174. So he's just like, he's pretty much building like, okay, when did Daredevil start? Like when was the first issue? 1964 with Daredevil number one. Okay, so like you said, he was like, issues what, 100 and what? So 158 is the

first penciling issue from Frank Miller. And then 168, he becomes the four on right. David McEliny came in and did a story in between Roger McKenzie and Frank Miller. And before that standalone issue, there was some Co-written issues for Miller with a candy. Yes So like did daredevil have like a lot of villains before this or like because it sounds to me like he's adding a much a new ones and stuff like Well, he really just kind of in at least he really just kind of events the hand and also stick is an advent here so stick is a blind man who isn't like custodian garb like this olive kind of outfit and he is another blind man who trained Matt in his earlier years that's one of the things that I find to make this comic book so influential too is that like any other writer will often

do now I feel. When you're really kind of invested into a character and what your narrative is going to be going throughout in there, you find a gap in time that we haven't covered with this hero yet and you take a pinprick of it and go, here's a place where this character was previously connected. And they're going to meet up with him for the first time since we've been seeing his exploits and adventures here in my issue of my run, right? Stick essentially has made the chast, which is a group of ninja warriors coming out to eliminate the hand in evil organization. Wait, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, but that's the direct inspiration, that's the direct inspiration set of the hand, it's the foot, yep, yep, and Electra and Daredevil were trained to be a member of the chest, right? So we're not gonna get it and cover it very heavily, but I recommend to anybody if you're interested in seeing

to an extent where comic books change and certainly where Daredevil changed to like if you want to see the hot new Stuff coming out of Marvel if you want to see a really good book going on at Marvel, just any random comic books. Throughout most of our lives, Brad, it's been daredevil to be perfectly honest. Yeah, I think so. I mean, so immediately following this run, you have like Anacenti and the Typhoid Mary arrow, which is definitely directly like latched onto this. Miller actually comes back to do born again around that. What was a typhoid Mary? Like did she go around made people have the flu or? She's a mutant with pyrocanesis and DID. So you have...

Well, first pyrocanesis. Disassociative identity disorder so she has a split personality she could fire with fire with her fire she can start fires with her head that's a little different yeah typhoid Mary the absolutely but like the thing is is that like typhoid Mary runs in town and her regular identity of Mary falling in love with Matt Murdoch while Typhoid is fighting Daredevil and like if she were to come up into scratch or kiss someone, they like come underneath her spell. Like it is a really interesting story. I really really enjoy that story. Kind of like I love poetry. Yeah, kind of, yeah. But yeah, okay. That's actually really interesting, like, but so, but does she control fire? Yeah, yeah, she can start fires with her head, yeah.

Okay. That era is kind of hadlined by not only Anna-Centy's writing, but you have John Remy to Juneur doing like, I don't think he's just doing his best Frank Miller. I think their styles at that point were so similar and so befitting of like the action that Daredevil puts on with his books. And like, this book goes very cinematic to an extent that like, it's always show don't tell. When there's a fight, it's literally almost just like the impacts, there's no wasted movement, and it moves at a frenetic part. They're not like talking like Dragon Ball Street.

But there is a lot of narrative going on though too. I mean, you know what I mean? It's just literally when they key move, it's literally when they elbow or strike or whatever. Yeah, it's literally when they elbow or strike or whatever. Gacha. Like, okay. Yeah, it's very epic fight scenes and like one of the things I always loved about Dare Double II is as a whole, too, not just Miller's run. Actually, it's not really in Miller's run as much.

You can have this great superhero story happening for six to 12 issues or whatever it may be, but you're also getting like a courtroom drama. You know what I mean? Like and maybe a little thinking in your funny books. You know what I mean? Like, he's a lawyer, right? Yeah. Right. Exactly. So like one of the things that's really fun during Charles' soul's run is he calls up the ethical idea of if Daredevil were have to go on the stand somehow and like it's it's full of legal contrivances I'm sure but like that is one of the things that makes Daredevil so interesting is if if you want to make it a story about being a lawyer and a crime fighter you can do that. Mark Wade does an element of that at times in his books. If you want to make it crime novel, but with a superhero at its center,

and also like some mythical ninja sh- Frank Miller did that, you know. That is the one thing about comics as a whole role really, is that you can just kind of mold each character how you want Like in its own series and I see why that attracts you to them. Yeah, yeah Cuz like I mean I do re-comics not too often definitely not as nearly as much as you do obviously I think most comics actually that I've read are from you if I'm not mistaken But I think the one that I didn't was the voice that I got that wasn't from you Which is awesome probably. Yeah, I just feel like daredevil is kind of one a unique one. Yeah, because like He is kind of like Batman in a way. I could do a whole 30 minutes on how Batman and you know you know

Personally, I love Batman to do Daredevil arguably is a better Batman. Yeah. I could understand that argument for sure. Well, I mean, he's still, he's got a superpower though. That's the thing is that Batman really does it. He's the one superhero without a superpower. Well, you're completely right.

He has super senses. Dared up was a character. That's a good thing. And that leads to a heightened sense of smell and hearing and things like that He essentially has like a sonar is Honestly though, it's like is that a superpower right because he doesn't have it replaces No, that's the thing Well, I would I would make the argument that like dare doubles dare double has such like good

precise hearing and sent that like he's at like 360 vision essentially right exactly like he really actually probably could see better than average to the extent that he has like a full scope but he can't like see more than silhouettes and figures sure but like when you're like fighting bad guys you know don't need to like, no, what they look like, you know? No. In 191 is a direct question I believe Miller makes on the whole of like, beyond the level of like optimism and things to strive for, comic book is kind of a lissit, right? It also is the right makes right argument a lot of times

where people are just toppled over whatever else and a child shooting happens in this book because Daredevil has made this kid believe that to find the bully and beat him down is the answer, right? Like, is it really right what we're all doing here to a certain extent? Or is it really a thing? That's kind of one of the things that Miller asked by the end of this. When you go on from this with Daredevil, it's one of the most all-star books that you could read as a through-line narrative, throughout runs, decades, etc. Frank Miller on the other hand has like the rest of a really good decade and then slowly and into

the next decade, everything kind of topples for this man as far as praise, critical, well yeah critical acclaim but like even the general public in mass kind of rejecting some of his stuff I mean you know just because of his work or like personal things or I think those things kind of tie into each other to a certain extent because like post September 11th with Frank Miller was near the epicenter of right living in New York City. So I feel you have a drop in quality. Everybody was so influenced by this work that like I feel like the game passed him up. And within this time, within a few years after this, he is the rock star.

Him and John Burn and guys like that are the guys who influence your gymlies and your Rob Laifelds and your Todd McFarlane's. I would argue to a certain extent. Like, I feel like those guys wanted to be on that level and then got to that level further.. Well sure, it sounds to me like he's like one of the more influential people of dare at least the Daredevil series, you know, like all of comic books, I would say really was for a long time. For a long time. Did he only do, I mean, did he do any other big ones other than Daredevil or so as far as mainline runs of a book. No, of that and then like he returns to Daredevil by like the two thirties to do board again and in the 90s he did

another couple stories like Love and War and the man without fear a kind of origin story for Daredevil this is probably the character he's worked on the most I think Miller's stripped down style comes in part because since City was so successful. It's like we were talking about with Tim Sale. It's a little more sketchy, a little more avant-garde or whatever you would consider it, but like... That's the artistic license that you earn and are given by people who are really fans of the media. Okay, this is really interesting because like I didn't know that Daredevil was so interconnected with all these things. And like, it seems to me that at that time, well, I don't know, was this like crossover

thing happening a lot during that? To me, like, I guess that seemed like a more modern thing. Not to the extent that I think you're thinking about, like, this is probably a few years before secret wars happens and event books really become a thing like we talk about quite regularly when we talk about comic books and like the medium that this is a hole for superhero books. There are crossovers laden throughout like we discussed the the whole caparian 163 there's an issue with iron fist and power man the heroes for hire so like there's an issue with iron fist and power man the

heroes for hire so like there's and the Punisher appears throughout a small arc in here and and all of those guys appeared on the Netflix brand of television shows that alone is a reason you might want to check it out if you enjoyed what Daredevil you saw from the Netflix show? Check this book out if you just want to check out a really good comic book. That's They're highly influential critically acclaimed Well-be-loved by fans and homage at several different, you know covers or you know art prints and things like that That would definitely be a way to go for me is check out Daredevil from Frank Miller. Thank you, man. Yeah, I might have to check it out. Honestly, like, I mean, I don't read

many comics, but you know, like, especially with superheroes, but this one, I've always had a thing with Daredevil. Daredevil and Spider-Man. So I might have to actually check them out, honestly. It's a beacon. Yeah. For some, I would say. And they're both, you know, it's like New York. It's just a New York thing, kind of like the statue of Liberty. That's right. Yeah, for some I would say and they're both you know, it's like New York It's just a New York thing kind of like the statue of liberty. That's right. Yeah, it is almost like yeah So to get in that subject the statue of liberty, right? This is one of the most recognizable statues in America. It's long been seen as an icon of freedom and as a symbol of immigrants coming to America Especially by sea, you know, yeah, yeah, no, it's probably one of the most important silhouette statues like Rushmore, the Lincoln Memorial,

and stuff like that, like things that are defined by a personage. Exactly. Yeah, like I can't really think of like other monuments, you know, especially federal monuments that really like live up to that. Yeah. You know, when you think of, I noticed when I was writing notes, when you write liberty, the stature of liberty and modication. Oh, wow, yeah. So like, yeah, it's got a great, that's cool.

Like, even like, it's that, it's that engrained into our society. Sononymous, right. But what it is, like, it's a giant neoclassical sculpture, right? So it's made out of copper. So the outer core is made out of copper. And by neoclassical, I mean that it's not a lot of a classical Roman got it. OK.

Yeah. And like, man, I can just imagine what this thing looked like when it was first revealed, because copper, right now, is green, because copper oxidizes in the air. But just imagine when it was first installed, like this giant, giant copper thing, you know, it'd just be insane to see that. How long does that take for oxidation suddenly?

It's pretty quick, I think. You know, like, okay. Yeah, so there was only a window a time for during that window, wow, what a view. I mean, it's years, you know, it's years. It's not like overnight or something happens, but. Right. No.

And you probably see that around a lot, like a lot of old buildings and stuff. You see this green, like that green look. And it's because it's gilded or whatever with copper. Right. You can clean that. It's as possible to clean that. And it haven't be shiny all the time.

But obviously, that'd be hard to set you a liberty. But so it's situated on Liberty Island, right? And that's like, that's off of New York City and the New York Harbor. So like when boats and everything, like everybody has to pass this island, Liberty Island, so it's almost the perfect spot to place this, especially at that time, because New York was like one of the biggest you know like shipping areas in the US at that time in 1800s. So on October 28th 1886 by President Grover Cleveland, that's when it was like when it was officially open and it stands 150 on a feet at one inch or 46 meters from the bottom to the top from the tip to the tip of the torch. Yes. So it's pretty big. Yeah. And if you include the pedestal though,

like, because there's this giant pedestal that it sits on, it's actually 305 feet and one inch from the ground or 93 meters. That one inch though. Yeah. Well, I think it equals out meters. Oh, right. Yeah.

The metric, like any good engineer or scientist would. But so the statue is, like any good engineer or scientist would but So the statue is like I said, it's a figure of the Roman goddess libertess and that is like the goddess of liberty or freedom And again, this has a lot of symbols and stuff like that was a thing Especially back in like the 178 hundreds of like, you know, having like things represented by like you throw a classical goddess or like even just like a native goddess or something like that a lot of like you know like women and or men you know like an advertisement and propaganda and things like that right Yeah, definitely she holds a torch above her head and like as most people know in her right hand and but in her left She holds something called a tabula and sada that is a tablet that has like these dovetail handles And on there is an inscribed July 4th 1776 in Roman numerals

Which as Americans would know is independent state right? I mean she kind of she mixes a few things right because down You know down at her feet She has a broken chain in shackle and that's supposed to commemorate the abolition of slavery. I never knew that That's something I didn't know either and I was kind of like just down about that and and that's supposed to commemorate the abolition of slavery. I never knew that. Yes. That's something I didn't know either. And I was kind of like just out about that. And the creator of this was thinking about having her hold the chains. And he thought, now that's too controversial.

You know, like they want to go for that. Right. So he put it at her feet because at ground level, you're not going to see that. You know? That's true, too, unfortunately. But yeah, I mean, and for me, it would seem more like casting them aside. Exactly, yeah, she's breaking free.

She's, you know, she's breaking free of her slavery. Right. Because that's what it's a sexual liberty, you know, it's a sexual of a freedom, you know? Like that's really what it is. It's about like, it's not just about immigration and everything, it's about being free too. And that's what it's kind of lost in modern days.

It's kind of crazy that that gets lost. They don't talk about that. I wasn't taught, we're in Michigan, which was like a very, that's good political. But Michigan's well-known, we fought in Gettysburg and stuff, a lot of Michigan and militia. If I'm not mistaken, Gettysburg, we're very,

there was a lot of traffic for the underground. I'm not mistaken, Gettysburg, like we're very... There was a lot of traffic for the underground railroad through here as well, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Michigan's like, we have a long history of being strong anti-slavery. And I'm kind of proud of that, you know, about our state. Yeah, that's really great. So, but anyways, get back to the stature of Liberty.

The sculptor, this guy I've been alluding to, his name was Frederick Auguste Bartholdi. Bartholdi, I think, is how you, this guy I've been alluding to, his name was Frederick Auguste Bartholdi. Bartholdi, I think, is how you pronounce this guy. I'm gonna pronounce it that way through this episode. But yeah, that sounds good. He's a Frenchman. I attempted a French accent earlier, but that, nope, not gonna try that.

Right. So, the idea for the monument, though, was not his, actually. It was actually another guy, the president of the French anti-slavery society, Eduardo René de la boule. Let's say that's how you pronounce his name. Regen has it in 1865, him and Martholdy were having an afternoon conversation when a Le boule was supposed to have said, if a monument should rise in the United States as a memorial

to their independence, I should think it only natural if it were built by a united effort, a common work of both our nations. Okay. Yeah. So like that obviously lays the groundwork for what happened was the statue being built in France and the pedestal being built in the US. But it probably is not true. Like I said, the legend of this happening is probably not right.

You know, like what really probably happens. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Between the truth and the legend print the legend, right? Exactly. Because like, you know, you're always going to have like some glamorous story or something about what Hollywood came about. But it probably was conceived more like in 1870. There was an essay from Laboulai that he said he wanted to honor the Union's victory and its consequences, right? So like the abolition of slavery and everything like that. And in that, he proposed it as a gift from France to the US. And that's kind of how it was set up, you know? It was a gift, you know? Like, it was still, it was needed, right? But like, it was still like, hey, we like how to stole it was needed right but like it was still like hey

We're gonna give you this giant copper thing right? You might want to get an end table because I bought you a really nice lamp You know, yeah exactly exactly you want to set it up nicely right? This is one of you like big statues really in the world left like there's not very many statues of like yeah Reo Dition Arrow is the only other one I could think of like that. And that stone as well. Yeah, yeah. Of Jesus, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot more than that. There's some in definitely in Asia, later giant, the biggest skulls in the world. I think our statues, especially in Asia. I mean, Bertholdy even said, like, in a later story, that like, it was La Bale's comment,

that was, it was not so much a proposal at that time, but was like more of an inspiration. He was like, hey, we should, you know, give this thing, and be cool if we made a monument to them winning the Civil War and all that. But at that time, though, Napoleon III was reigning in France, and like, that was like, monarchy. So, like, you don't really want to like, you know, talk about liberty and stuff when there's a king. So he kind of like, it was just a thought at that time. Right. And you know, uh, Bartholdy, he tried to do some stuff in Egypt.

Actually, he tried to like, he tried to build a statue of like another goddess in Egypt that got turned down. He also tried to propose to rebuild the classes of roads, which is one of the ancient wonders of the world. Again, I wanted to get to that one of these days, but he wanted to rebuild that on the entrance to the Suez Canal. And that it awesome. Yeah, it does sound cool off. Yeah, but no, neither came to fruition, you know, so, but. So is this a handsome kind of situation where he's like, you know,

if I could just get that ancient owner of the world we built, or if I could just get that and everybody's like, nah, bro, and then, and then the union wins the sub-war and he's like, you know, it would be cool. If we gave you this statue. I mean, it kind of, I mean, a little bit, you know, it seems to me that he was kind of a guy

that was like, I wanna build this giant sculpture. I don a guy that was like, I want to build this giant sculpture. I don't care where it is. I just want to build a giant sculpture somewhere. And because to me, he was a sculptor. Like everything everywhere. He's like, hey, you know what you guys can use over here. Exactly. A sculpture.

And they're like, yeah, we're good, bro. And he's like, all right, all right, no, no big deal. Exactly, like he no big deal Like you know, like he costs a lot of money to these things. Yeah, yeah, that's I because I mean he was a sculptor You know that was his day job was being a sculptor and like he probably sold smaller things and stuff like that But he wanted to know this like magnificent sculpture, which is kind of cool, you, like I'm really a big fan of like this and sculptures, honestly, like it's it's it's a very human thing to do and cool. Yeah, I would agree. I think there's a level of, again, prestige to that form of art for that run or for that statue that gives it round and round. Exactly, you know. Exactly. Unfortunately, it didn't come to fruition from the time that he thought about it until like probably almost 20 or 30 years after that, right?

Because like, move on, you know, he ended up in the Franco-Pression War, which is a big thing. We might get into a someday. That would be cool. He was a major in a militia. Napoleon III was captured and deposed at that time and a more liberal republic was installed in France So like that was when he's like all right, it's time to go and he went to America and this was in 1871 And he like traveled all over the country and stuff like trying to like drum up support for this

And like he did get some some support, but not enough though, you know like yeah, that's not as cool Like yeah, I'd like to see that, but like I'm not gonna be me me me me though Yeah, but I can't I'm you know, we, yeah, that's how it's cool. Like, yeah, I'd like to see that. But like, I'm not gonna give you any money though. Yeah, but I can't, you know, we're strapper cashier. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, so like, I mean, it didn't really work out at the time, but, you know, he came back later during that time, though, it was when he like really formulated like, what it would look like and everything like that.

And like, he had to choose between two different, like, female figures that were commonly used in American culture And that was Columbia and Liberty, right? And Columbia you don't really see at all anymore, but it was very big back then Like again, propaganda type things and stuff like that You know, I guess nowadays it's mostly like you see soldiers and stuff when you see propaganda from I'm sorry, I keep calling it propaganda But that's what it is you know like things from the from the government like talking about their military things like that

That's right. Yeah, but yeah, so like liberty really wasn't used for that But Columbia was and like a lot of times she was often depicted as like a native American and stuff like that Right The embodiment of America like as a female form. Like that's what the Columbia was supposed to be. Whereas like Liberty was more like the female representation of the idea of Liberty. And she was actually out of a lot of our coins back then. Right. There was a statue that sat atop the US Capitol building and still does,

you know, we're Congress and everything meets. That is smaller, statue of Liberty from a different person. But is it like a specific sculptive or face that's consistent or Congress and everything meets. That is smaller, sexual liberty from a different person. But. Is it like a specific sculptive for face that's consistent between the Statue of Liberty a top of that capital building and the actual Statue of Liberty pre-Earn Liberty Island?

I mean, yes and no. Like, you know, like they wanna make it like Romanesque, but like definitely other face. Well, so my follow up question was gonna be, do you think part of this is like the Greek Roman God that like a number of us would have a level of familiarity with versus Colombia? No, yeah, a big time.

Like, I mean, neoclassical, like that's all over DC and everything, like that's, like, you know, like that's, that was a big thing in America. It kind of still is, you know, like the Pylars and all that, like, yeah, that's, it definitely fits America big time. Like in like, I don't know, like, I love it, you know, like the Pylers and all that. Yeah. Yeah, that's, it definitely fits in here a couple of times. Like, and like, I don't know, like, I love it, you know, like, again, I'm a big room fan, so.

Right. It was a little different, you know, I don't know too much about Columbia, which I would like to look into her a little bit more, like the history of. Yeah, it would be interesting. I'd like to hear about that too. So, the gun on kind of how it was made, like,

so they raised a bunch of funds, right? So, like, the French raised funds by public fees and like, entertainment events and a lottery of funds, right? So like the French raise funds by public fees and like entertainment events and a lottery. Wow, okay. Whereas the US, they did like theatrical events and like art exhibits and auctions and even like price fights. So like that just sounds American.

That really just sounds American as it really does. Well, okay, so there's a couple of things there. It's like boxing in love it today is at that time the most louded sport that you can kind of compete in the open forum like that, right? Exactly. And the fact that it's going into the New York Harbor, there were probably a lot of boxing events in that time and area alone bear not go out on the harbor just dudes betting Swirling whiskey out on the water or you know with like a more like probably not Madison Square Garden

But you know what I mean like a real event boxing match of you know Boxing was legit yeah, that time for sure. That's another subject we I love you to the poet also To be a little lighter noted Emma Lazarus She wrote her famous son at the the new Colossus in 1883 she wrote that for an art and literary auction that like was for you know Raising funds for this and still is that what's printed on the pedestal? Okay, yeah, okay, you know again the pedestal funding was still slow though. Like they had the funding, it took a while to get the funding for the statue itself,

but they got it, you know, they got it and they got it built. And it was shipped over to the US and everything. That did spur a little bit more enthusiasm for it to see this giant, you know, like this giant copper statue in pieces. Yeah. But the pedestal still had to be built. So Joseph Politzer from the Politzer. Politzer. Yeah. But the pedestal still had to be built. So Joseph Politzer from the Pulitzer.

Pulitzer. Yeah. He placed an ad in his paper, The New York World. And he asked people to donate. And if they did, he would put their name in the newspaper. From that, he got 120,000 people to donate money. And that raised over $100,000. And that ties money, which is like a lot in this.

I didn't look at that. But so they were able to build it. You know, they were able to build this. $100,000 and that that times money, which is like a lot in this I didn't look at up I shouldn't have but So they were able to build it, you know, they were able to build this the pedestal and get it up a couple things that happened during the building though was just kind of interesting to me. Yeah, he initially he asked his friend and like mentor Eugene Violet Le Duc I probably say that wrong again I'm gonna say Violet He asked him to build to design and like, you know, design the inside of the statue, just to support it and everything. Yeah.

And he made the head and the torch with I-Let, but he ended up dying before it was finished. Right. And even if he had lived, the structure that he had designed wasn't enough to like support it. So they, yeah, so they ended up recruiting a guy named Gustaf Eiffel. You might have heard of something outside he built. Oh, yeah, some of his works. Yes, such as, now is that pre or post the Statue of Liberty? The Eiffel Tower was post a Statue of Liberty. So this is before that, but he was still very big at that time. Like he was a famous engineer in sculpture, you know, and Gustaf Eiffel, he actually

designed like an iron trust tower within the Statue of Liberty and a spiral staircase within it. And that like supported it, you know, allowed it to like sway and everything in the wind. That was actually first example of the curtain wall system of building, which is like how skyscrapers are built or one of the earliest examples. Sorry. Wow. Okay. So like this thing is also revolutionary in the

exactly. Yeah. The support of it is on the inside instead of like the walls, you know, like a house, the walls are the support, right? In this, the inside, the core is the support know like a house the walls are the support right in this the inside the core Right is the support just like a skyscraper. So it's it's kind of crazy. Yeah, right So yeah, it came over on June 17th 1885 out of French steamer and then by October of 1886 so like a year a year and a halfish later it was dedicated

So it took a little bit longer to get up and everything like I said the pen is still had to be built like that and like Man, it's just it's a beautiful thing quickly before I talk about this this poem I want to say and I'm sure you have a bit to say about it too Immigration in America to me is the most American thing there is you know, it always has felt that to me like we are a nation of Emirates and just the thing there is. You know, it always has felt that to me. Like we are a nation of immigrants. And just the, there's a lot of feelings towards immigrants nowadays. Legal or illegal to me. I don't really see a difference between that just because you know a person crossing over a land that has a imaginary line to me is not legal or illegal. But immigration to me has always been a thing to America to me.

And I feel like it's not so much anymore. The reason why we, for a generation or more, had always called this place a melting pot, had always looked to that, like I remember that symbol not just being an emoji but something that was on numerous amounts of patriotic or symbolic material about America because it does stand for something and even like we learned today what the shackles like, beyond just looking at your fellow man with some empathy, I think what it really takes is looking back

at your ancestry too. Like if you're an Italian immigrant in 1934, life for you is significantly different than who, let's say, your great-grandchildren's children. Who we are, who we are. No, exactly. Right, exactly. Us now, just to lose sight of that and be like, oh, well, I have little to no cultural

or ethnic difference with the majority of the people I'm with, so like, what does it matter? And I feel like we do have a little bit of that as an issue of like forethought and identifying ourselves from who we came from, who we are today, and who we want to be tomorrow. Absolutely, I agree. Essentially what I was trying to say as well. Yes. No, absolutely. I know. But let me go out with this poll from Amalezarest, the new glasses, not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, with conquering Limus astride from land to land. Here at our sea wash, sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, whose flamed is imprisoned lightning, and her name, mother of exiles.

From her beacon-hand glows worldwide welcome, her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that twins cities frame. Keep ancient lands you storied pomp. Christ she, with silent lips, give me your tired, your poor, your hearted masses, yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless tempest toss to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door. And with that everyone, we would love to thank you for joining us. Find us on Tick-Tock and Facebook where we have videos you can share with your friends. Share this episode with your

friends if you feel like. Find us on Patreon where you can join our $5 tier and get early access to our episodes by one week and we will see you again here soon. See ya. Blam-o-d-bam.