Brain Soda Podcast - Episode 30 - Diogeneeds Those Dragon Balls!

Episode Date: August 26, 2023

On this week's episode we're talking about the original Dragon Ball series/manga, and the ancient Greek philosopher Diogenes! 

Brainsoda Up, down, LaFract Jones. Up, down, LaFract Jones. Say what? It's the Brain Soda Podcast. I, as always, am your host Kyle, joined by my co-host and cohort, Brad. How's it going? Today, we're going to be talking about Diogenies, but first, Brad. Yes.

A curatorialmo was coming off the heights that he established with his manga series, Dr. Slump, and weekly shown in jump that ran from the years of 1980 to 1984. After that series, he had done two different one shots that kind of explored different themes and imaging that we would see prevalent and what began to be one of the biggest grossing media franchises of all time. Highly arguably the most popular anime and manga series of all time. Brad, today we're going to be talking about Dragon Ball. Yes, I love Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Right, now that's get into that distinction really fast the

Ambiguation so we in America no Dragon Ball Z and it was known in Japan as Dragon Ball Z for the reason of marketing the anime more specifically right once the time shift or specifically, right? Once the time shift post the end of the piccolo saga, and at the beginning of the same saga, they came to Toriyama and we're like, hey, look, we'll get more money if we advertise this as a new show overall, so it's gonna be dry and wealthy.

I feel like. Yes, well, I mean, it makes sense, because it is the same show, but it's different. It is. The narrative choices that happen post that split are really so monumental that it necessitated it, I feel, to a certain extent. And we're going to talk about that here. We're not going to dive too, too deeply into the stories that this early, early anime, but we're going to start from

the beginning because I find it very interesting that like two of the biggest influences on this as a manga and then later adapted as an anime is journey to the west, the like 16th century Chinese folk tale. And Toriyama is like in love with Chinese culture and folklore, right? But the other is like kung fu movies and things like that and like for a large part of the story overall of Dragon Ball so from the beginning like we're talking today to the very end is rooted in this kind of kung fu comedy, you know, not terribly dissimilar from like a kung fu hustle or kung pal. So the way I kind of see Dragon Ball versus Dragon Ball Z is like Dragon Ball is more of like a traditional like like you say kung fu look type thing.

There is like you know kung fu comedy. Yeah, exactly It's very comedic. I mean Dragon Ball Z is too, but not as much and like there's less of the like the say and stuff There's there is a little bit of it. Uh, well, I know there's not though Radded says the character is a complete retcon of everything that's established within this story Exactly like it's like there really isn't like there's no super say in or anything like that. The ape transformation. Yeah, and the ape. Like, yeah, exactly.

Those are like the two, you know, like, main threads of say inism. But like, I mean, and the people that don't know even know what we're talking about, they're kind of like superheroes, I guess. They have superpowers, right? I mean, they're from a different planet. Yeah.

Number one, I'm gonna say this now, hot take, whether you think that or not, but I feel like there's a reason Superman and Goku are always laid up against each other in death battles on YouTube and shit. Like that is that like, yes, they are two of the most righteous and like strong characters of their given mediums, right? But the other thing is is that like they are aliens, rock it off to a different planet whose capabilities make them at a higher level than all of humanity and like a danger capacity, yet their empathy and human emotion is actually in a level greater than a lot of humanity in reality, right? Yeah, I could definitely agree with that with Goku.

I don't know, like Superman I don't know as much about, but that is a crux of Superman. Yeah, is it? Okay, yeah, that's really cool. Like, yeah, I mean, he is. He's a lot like Superman. Like if you, like, I mean, their powers are different and stuff, but yeah, for sure.

Right, I guess a character narrative between having powers and having humanity, there is almost no other comparison I could think of. And like Goku is the pro-tipical anime protagonist. Like we had said at the beginning of this, his doctor slumped manga ran for four years, it was adopted into an anime as well. And like, one of the things I never realized, and maybe a lot of people may not have either, is like, part of the reason there's an amphipomorphic society is that Dr. Slump had that.

My point is, is that like, the reason why the police chief might be a dog in one episode is because like, that's just the way that it is. Like, on this planet, this earth narrative for Dragon Ball, there's random tigers and lions and bears on my engine that are like a regular part of society and you're not supposed to blink twice

or think about it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's, oh, it's bear bear. Hey, bear bear, what's going on? Like, but they don't name him bear bear. They don't even give him a name. He's just the bear. This is true, they never does that never does that. Yeah doing mainly things acting like a regular human being but yeah, yeah They do that through Dragon Ball Z2 all that less well get less although to yeah, I feel like that's that's an important point

To know you because it's one of those things that like if you show it to somebody blindly I feel like we'll always come up. They're like okay, wait a minute Why is this guy just a random bear? But to begin at the beginning, Goku is a naive young boy with a monkey-esque tail and that largely comes from Journey to the West because of the monkey-prince character that's to the West because of the monkey prince character that's prominently throughout the early chapters of that folklore tale, right? And he has a grandpa Gohan who has this uh, trinket of a ball with four stars on it and he meets up with this younger teenage character named Bulma who's in search of these balls.

Roshi shows up, gives them a ball, tries to motorboat ball more, and shows them the Kamehameha. And we'll talk about that a little bit more because it bridges into when he goes back and trains and going to fire Mountain to achieve it and things like that. Goku is actually met Chi Chi and promised to marry her, which will come full circle by the end of the series. And throughout the next, it's like 23 chapters. So you're talking about the comic itself, not the show. We're talking about both.

Okay. To be fair, the anime adaptation is what everybody is always most familiar with. And while I've never read the manga, it is a direct adaptation of it most usually. There was filler added in the anime, and there are different elements that are like incorporated laterated later on like when we talk about the big villain for this arc Pee-loff he has a crew of two like assassins with him right this fox and a ninja outfit and a kind of

Jump suit clad you know assassin type in a character named may yeah They didn't get those names until the anime. Okay. Like in the anime, they were like, yeah, they're gonna be as big a role they are in the anime. We might as well give names, right? Yeah, because I remember though, they like, they were scenes with just them too and stuff like that.

In a large way, they are the comedic antagonist foil, right? Like if you need to do something with the bad guys that has like a comedic slapstick kind of element, those are usually who you're using. Peel-off has a lot of, you know, comedic elements and things like that, but it's mostly a dialogue, you know, somewhat in characterization, but for the most part when you need, you know, some pitfall, some pratfall that happened, and it happens to those two. But you also meet characters like Ula, this communist, garb-dressed pig who has like a whole village captive when you first meet him and then later he's revealed

to be able to animate, into different monsters and things like that. To keep rule this town, but in reality he's this small little pig creature. And again, the allegory to Journey into the West comes with things like that. But what we were talking about with the evolution in Dragon Ball Z is also really prevalent because another antagonist in this story is Yamcha. And while Yamcha starts as this, a kind of handsome devil of a rogue character, he's terribly a period of women, and wants to steal the Dragon Balls

to be able to speak with them and things like that. But eventually he becomes a part of the team, and a big part of the narrative for Dragon Ball as it is going forward. Yeah, I mean, he's going through the whole series, I'd say, but like, I mean, he definitely becomes more minor in Z because he's not a say in and everything, but they all do. And that is another thing, is that characters who are once huge foils become just another part of the crew of sideline guys after the bench gets cleared before Goku shows I'm pretty much you know what I mean which is a common narrative complaint for this

So another element of it I want to bring up though too is that like though this is largely comedic and Lighthearted and fun. There are some like kind of problematic elements for age and sexuality and things like that as well I was gonna wonder yeah There's and there's parts of the anime that have been edited. I'm sure at this point that like the social norms of the day have kind of redacted some of the things written in Toriyama's work. But like, yeah.

If you look at it as a word of the time, it's probably not as offensive to you as if you're going into this, as if it was written a few years ago. If you go into it with the understanding that Japanese culture when it comes to age and sexuality is a bit different than the way it's considered and normalized here, like it's easier to read

and watch than not. Yes. Right, you know what I mean? So if you do plan on following our suggestion, just trek out Dragon Ball from the beginning, starting with these first arcs, like, you're going to run into some things, first and foremost, that may jar you just in, like, narrative structure is, like, anthropomorphic society. But you might also, like, get really offended or creeped out, like, the fact that, like, everybody's trying to squeeze up on bullman

She's like a 16 year old girl or something like that like whoa wait a minute. Hold my You know, so yeah, it definitely can't be very very jarring as far as like what you have to try to Explain away or rationalize to like get through these stories in the early part That's really like the first few episodes though. Like and like I don't know like it does happen. It is like very very like I mean that would be like sexual assault in some of the cases. Right. I mean it's I don't know like yeah with Goku specifically it's more of like of like he's just like it's not like a naive little boy, right? Yeah, right. It's a naive it. But like, but you haven't brought up Master Rochi yet. But like he's, yeah.

Well, that's what I was going to say is where a lot of problematic elements come with it is within Rochi, who is another like sex pot character, but you get it with ulaong as well. Yeah. And yeah, exactly. Like, I think a lot of it is the characterization of Bulma, the fact that as a narrative device at times, she's sexualized and propositioned almost or whatever. Yes, I don't want to doubt that it is pretty bad. If there's edited versions, it's probably better to watch those.

And I was like, you don't need to see that crap. I mean, I don't know. It's been a long since I've seen it, but I'm sure, like I remember it. You're right, and being like, Whoa! Yeah, like that's even like 10, 15 years ago. I was like, whoa, that's weird.

I don't know, as a kid, I probably didn't even recognize it, you know, or even think about that, but like, yeah, as an older person, yeah. So stepping away from the story a little bit too though, I wanted to bring up the fact that like, I remember living in Marquette at this point So the upper peninsula of Michigan and watching Dragon Ball like religiously and then Shortly thereafter Z had came into so much prevalency, but like we've discussed in another episode

Like at the time I wasn't living in Marquettemore, didn't have access. So what year was that? So it apparently had American distribution in 95 that I found in my research. So it made sense that I seen it. Yes, but I don't remember the big jump split as well as a lot of other people do. Okay, so my earliest recollection of Dragon Ball was actually, I think, Dragon Ball Z. Right. It was my baby's sitter at the time. I must have been, I was younger than 7, because I still lived down in LaVonia at the time.

Right. And he had a, like, a dubbed version from Japan of something I just remember trunks. But, yeah. So it was, like, really, really early, I didn't even see Dragon Ball Z or Dragon Ball for that matter. Right. I don't think I watched Dragon Ball really until around later. Yeah, like maybe when I met you, maybe I don't know. I think one of the funny things is that as a story wholesale, like percentage wise, you're

like halfway in by the time Dragon Ball ends and Dragon Ball Z begins. Yet like a lot of the things that they push out to the public be it the games the the action figure lines the clothing the bit like it is a multimedia franchise but for the most part that coverage is set to Z less so to Dragon Ball but I feel like yeah you never really hear about Dragon Ball right like ever right well not even Z any I mean obviously like now it's whatever Dragon Ball. Right. Like ever. Well, not even Z-any. I mean, obviously, like, now it's whatever Dragon Ball Super. Super, is it? Yeah.

Exactly, yeah. So, like, they don't even talk about Z anymore, but like, Z is what started it. I mean, Dragon Ball obviously was started. Z was what started the bottom of Dragon Ball. Like, I feel like it is. Now, the stage is the huge multi-national push into why this is the landmark anime.

Like, we're going to talk at different points about things like going from the first arc into the second arc, Toriyama looked at his sales with his editor and things like that and looked for different inspirations in the anime and manga, kind of change based on Fista the Norstar, which at that time was the most popular mango. Okay, so let's get into it. Like I said though, I wasn't trying to dip into him too heavily. Essentially what happens throughout the first early episodes of this anime and the earliest chapters of the mango itself is that Goku and Bo ma miit they end up searching for the dragon balls together. In the meanwhile, Piloth and his henchmen are also pursuing the Dragon Balls,

as well as Yamcha, and they go on and they travel out throughout these different lands and towns, meaning up with different characters, different threats like the Caratizer Bunny or Boss Bunny or whatever it is, the guy who can turn people in the parents. Yeah, I remember all these. Goku rockets off into the moon, but by the end of the arc, not only has Peel Off's plan to steal the Dragon Balls out from underneath our heroes, Ben Foil by Ulon jumping in place and wishing for panties and the ape, and the ape transformation.

Goku was meant, yeah. Yes, because, well, have we talked about that? I don't think we've barely talked about the Dragon Balls. I know you mentioned them, but like you need what, seven of them? And then a dragon would come and you can make a wish. Goku inherits the four star ball, and there are a total of seven different balls starred accordingly to a number order. And once you assemble all of them, you're able to summon a dragon and make one wish. And then assemble all of them, you're able to summon a dragon and make one wish and then throughout a whole year afterwards, they've turned the stone and are dispersed around the world to be

recycled back into use the next year. They make that wish to save the day and get away from Pee-Law's plan, and this would be the beginning of our coverage for that series. I highly suggest you guys check it out, but yeah, from this point, Toriama and his editor will go over the sales of the manga and kind of decide to shift it more into the Kung Fu combat storyline. You see the ape transformation in this arc. You meet the main characters that we have talked about, and that is kind of the bridge going forward, and like, Rochi, I feel like, is a high point for this series. Obviously Goku and Yamcha and Bulmar as well. Pea off kind of falls off later on, again, with the series overall, but even in Dragon Ball, I feel like the stock in that character really jobs, but it is an interesting point to pick up and see where Toriyama is as a creative,

and to see the very early conceptual stuff that's going on here in Dragon Ball, and I highly suggest you guys check it out, we'll be continuing to cover it further. But with that, so I know we didn't talk about Master Roshi like too much in this, but you know, when you said you were we were doing Dragon Ball this week, I immediately thought of him because Diatgenese is a little like him minus like the per... well I can't say minus the perversion, but he is a lot like Roshi in a sense. He's kind of a hermit and everything. So yeah, Diatadginis of Sonop, or also called Dijadginis the cynic.

He's a Greek philosopher who lived in Sonop, Paplegonia, which is like a modern day turkey right now. Okay. He's Greek though, like even though it's like Greece. The city state thing that we were talking about before, right? I mean, even though it's like modern day turkey, there was a lot of Greek influence on like the eastern or sorry, the western side of turkey. And then like even going into it like Anatolian stuff, I'm not sure if like the Greeks went like the Greeks spread very far

you know, at that time, but Greek culture around that area was very big. Like even like Macedonia, you know, Alexander the Great technically wasn't in modern degrees, but I guess he is in modern degrees. You know, like he wasn't Greek. He was Macedonian, but he was so Greek. Yeah, but anyways, that's getting besides the but Hellenistic culture is really what it is. Is that they share the same culture, you know. But we're not sure exactly when he lived. It's

estimated probably like 404 to 320 BC, but like, you know, like there's so many different accounts of him Like when we get into this later like there's just like every story about him has like three different versions of it That's pretty funny But well that kind of goes into that folklore thing we were talking about with Journey and the West too, right? Like you know this legendary thing that kind of proceeds exactly Maybe even truth, but permeates culture.

He almost kind of became that. He was around though, and like very important times, like Alexander the Great met him, and like, it was one of my favorite stories. But he was the founder of cynicism, though. You know, it's like an off-ranch of stoicism, kind of when people say stoic nowadays, they think of like people that are like very calm,

and like, you know, emotionless, that's not really what stoicism was. Yeah like the monk you know I am a stone in a storm I can weather. Yes yes but cynicism though was more about like self-sufficiency and like rejecting luxury and stuff like that and more like you know like getting into nature and all that and right like Dijonese really like he was he was definitely a cynic, I'll tell you that. And like, cynic nowadays, I think like the modern version of that is like not a good version.

A very bitter version. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Really, when you're a cynic, you're more aligned to be an over complainer or overly critical or, you know, black pilled doom or almost, you know what I mean? Exactly. And like that's nothing like what Greek, like the Greek version of, like the philosophical version

of that means it's more of like, yeah, exactly. It's like rejecting luxury and stuff, you know, it's like, but they didn't like teach more. It's more, it's less of like something to be studied more of like a way of living, I guess, you know. Right. Yeah, and like later Stoics, they called it kind of like as a sort of like short cut to virtue, you know Like it's main concept, right? Was that virtue is a life lived according to nature, okay?

So or with nature so it's more like I don't know They didn't like society really. They're like, you know all this like human stuff is bad Essentially from what I gather. It's kind of it's kind of funny but yeah, yeah, yeah, like they hate it like temples and stuff and priests and politicians and like they just like they rejected all that so it's not as much about like society as much as it is like institutions that have a large Over our kind of society. It is but it's like a way of thinking too like that's really what it kind of was But I'm talking about the things they're critical about like the social constructions

I didn't really go into cynicism too much because like when you get in a philosophy like some of this stuff can get pretty deep And like I like I just wanted to know about Diat Gini's because like he's just a funny character of history and he's like he's great though. He's like one of my favorite philosophers. But yeah like, the best example is like it's how to live life. It's like reason, self-sufficiency, and freedom, right? Like that's really like pretty good principles right? I do want to sprinkle a couple of quotes of his throughout here because like that's you know one thing he's really big on yeah None of his writing survived. Oh, no But like a lot of his like other writings of what he said has survived right from other people right of one of them I like is when I look upon semen men of science and philosophers man is the wisest of all beings

When I look upon priests and prophets nothing is as Contemptable as man. Oh, I like it nice. prophets, nothing is as contemptible as man. Oh my God, nice. Yeah, yeah. I'm like that. I'm a scientist. I'm like, all right, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah.

That's kind of what they see. It's not that they reject society, right? It's that they reject. Constructs, right. That's exactly what they reject. All this, to him probably modernization. You know, he'd probably go, I don't know if he'd use that word, but like, you know, he's like, well, we need to get back to the Hudson stuff.

Yeah. But it mean right. Yeah. You know those Filipino guys on YouTube digging their own pools, making little Hudson on the side of a hill. That's what we need to be doing. Exactly. Yes, but he wasn't like the founder of cynicism though

You know stories have been told that he was taught by Antistonies which he was a great orator and actually companion to Socrates I almost said so great. I so hard for me not to say so great because of damn Bill intense Well, you know what as long as everybody's excellent to one another. I think it'll work out. I agree But yes, Antistonies was like like like the founder and forerunner for cynicism. Okay. But the way that he like, he found him and like bugged him until he became his teacher.

Like that wasn't something that Antistonees usually did, you know, but he just like, like following him around all the time until he finally became his teacher. Okay, right. Job stand. Yeah, exactly. He kept his teacher's views on ethics and stuff like that, but he did have like a new way

of expressing those views, which I will definitely get into in a minute. But most of his stories take place in Athens, right? He was born in Sonop, he moved to Athens later, and the reason why it was because when its story is told that something about his family was like his father was like a banker, and something happened either him or his father or some of them both or whatever they like defrauded the the currency there They like kind of was like ripping it off or like yeah, yeah, so like they all like they got kicked out of town They had to go, you know, and bail out. There's other stories of like it was like the oracle of Delphi I told them to do that

But I really believe that because the whole temple's things like he doesn't like religion, you know, so why would he like listen to the Oracle of Delphi? Right, why would he buy it? Yeah, so like I don't know if I believe all that. He just pinned it on religion when then somebody rolled up on him, he's like, nah man. Yeah. The Oracle told me that. But yeah, no, so like I mean, he like I said, he left Sonop right, and then likely went to Athens, like he probably stopped some places between there and whatnot. That's kind of a hike. It's not too much, actually. You'd probably, either, you could probably take a boat directly from Turkey to Athens. Oh, definitely. It's just going over the G and C, right?

When he got there, though, like he kind of, he lived a weird life while in Athens, okay? Okay. He was well- known for famously living in a tub or they say like, Like a bathhouse? No, a tub, like a little tub. Like he just stayed in a tub. Yeah, outside, next to a tub. Okay, hold on.

Yeah, so wait a minute. If he were to live into a tub, we didn't he have like medical issues. Well, let me just like slept in a tub like that's where he was He's really a homeless person. I mean But he chose to be a homeless person and he like cuz what he did is he saw a mouse one time And he's like well this mouse dad doesn't need a you know big old house or anything like that. So what do I? And then yeah.

Oh man, yeah. That's deep, bro. I mean, it really is. Like that's kind of like- It is, but like look, okay. The thing is, is if you were to have like a GoPro, which I understand he would not even be able to- You never know, he would realize.

With Atlanteans and all that, or Atlantis and all that, you know? I don't think so. I don't think he could make the conceptual idea of like harnessing a GoPro onto a mouse. But what I was going to say is that like a mouse has shelter. Yes, that's very true. Yeah, but he didn't know that. I was still, yeah, that's my point. Is that like, I get it, but like at the exact same side of it, like, if you were to understand the reason why amounts so

survivable and efficient is because it's able to find shelter at seamlessly endless places. That's very true. Well I mean humans are kind of the same way though man. We can find food seamlessly endless places. I mean yeah this guy slept in a tub of course you can do that. Exactly so I mean we kind of are like mice we're like them we're like big mice in a way***ing tub, of course you can do that. Exactly, so I mean, we kinda are like mice. We're like big mice in a way. If you really think about it, we're very mouse-like. In a way we are, we group, or you know, big groups. We have shelter, like you say.

We can spread out anywhere. Hack mentality. Yeah, yeah, I mean, we're quite like mice. I don't disagree with that. Yes, I take some level of umber, and I understand, like, I'm a dude sitting in America. You know what I mean? That literally spreading my opinions

out to the airwaves of the entire world through a simple machine to me, right? But like... Exactly. Exactly. Right. Like, I'm not trying to understand. Well, okay. I see what you're saying I see you're saying, but let me let me give you another quote He said in a rich man's house. There's no place to spit but on his face

Yes But he was all like I mean yes, you saw my rich people but even in public We'll kind of go into some of other stories, right? So like obviously he was like a homeless person, but even in public, we'll kind of go into some of his other stories, right? Right. So like, obviously he was like a homeless person, but it was like frowned upon at that time to eat food in the marketplace, right? You could buy, there's the market, you know, like, you would buy your food but not eat it there, right? And he would eat his food, you know, just like out in the open and people were like, what

the hell, you know? But he also, yeah, and you know, that's pretty bad, or you know, he once said that like, what the hell, you know? But he also, Oh buddy, he raised. Yeah, and you know, that's pretty bad. Or, you know, he once said that like, if an act is not shameful in private, that same act is not made shameful by being performed in public, you know? Like just be, like it shouldn't be shameful to eat in private and then, yeah.

So I mean, like he even took that to an extreme and like he would like pleasure himself out in front of the open in the marketplace. And he would tell this question to the surprise that he wished it was easy to relieve hunger by rubbing an empty stomach. Okay, I don't know, man, some of these quotes I love them. I love the quotes, but I also feel like as deep and as true as a lot of these are, there is umberd you can take with them to a certain extent because like you're right. A private act that is not shameful, not being shameful when done in public is not the issue.

I feel like because we do it in private to then intrude upon the public is what is the scandalous act. Yes, right. I'm not saying, read with what he's doing. It's just, he's such a funny character, man. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to take it seriously, but when I hear what he says, I'm like,

yeah, I pick up what you put down for sure. And then you're like, but then he'd masturbate in public. Exactly. Well, now I'm not rooting for him as hard. Yeah, he might have been a little crazy. But eventually though, I don't know how this happened. But he got enslaved, probably by some pirates, and he's set to corret, I don't know,

maybe he's traveling to go visit someone or something or do something, whatever. He somehow got enslaved by pirates. Okay. And when he got there though, they asked him what he did, and he told the pirates that he governed Ben. That's what he did. So when they saw them, that's what they said.

And his master made him a teacher. You know, and maybe like, governed Ben means more like, you know, I tell them what to do or whatever, you know, more or so like, I mean, that is, yeah. Well, you learn them and shape them as a mold for like, thought and things like that. Like, yeah. Exactly.

That's, yes. And another quote from his, I would say is a good one, is the foundation of every state is the education of its youth. Right there, that is, again, that right there is, I feel like what shines through with this guy obviously is like, that's a sentiment we hold each and every year, come election time and real life citizens and whatever place you may be.

Have to address those issues, right? Because we all know that people have to be formed and shaped to a certain extent, to be able to prosper socially even, let alone in whatever facet in society. I agree. No, like definitely. It's, yeah, like the youth is the future. It really is. And like, you know, and I know you said that everybody thinks

that I don't think everybody thinks that. And like a lot of people, well, they do think that. I'm sorry. I do think everybody thinks that you're right. They just think there's different. It's what they prioritize in. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, trust me.

Trust you me. That is a well-kept thing in my mind, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But to continue on the story, so when he was in sleep, from what it sounds like, he became an encherished member of the household, there's other things that say that he's freeed immediately,

but he more likely grew old and died in court, right? And maybe he got freed at some point, but he probably did get freed at some point. Well, even if he was just, you know, come and do as he please free within like a restricted or not context, he may not have been. And slavery was a lot different back then, exactly. Like sometimes you get freed,

but you're still like, oh, obligations to your old master and stuff, it was weird. And especially when you agree, I don't know anything about Greek slavery. I know a lot about Roman, but you know, I'm assuming it's similar. But yeah, so like, because there was at one point Alexander the Great, you know, and one of these days, we're going to talk about him. He personally sought out Diogenes to hear his philosophy and stuff. Like, Alexander the Great was really big on philosophy.

Right. So he came to Corinth, you know, on his way through and like a bunch of other philosophers came up to you know try to meet up and stuff a doctorum and he's like where's you know where's the agonies yeah that's cool you guys came but where's the agonies uh yeah so they told me he's like always in some like suburb of Corinth right so like he walked over like went out and sought him out right and there's not different accounts of like what happened but But essentially like most accounts say this. He came up to him and he said, oh, you know, the great diagenies.

What would be one thing I could do for you? Like what's one wish that you would like? And diagenies. We off. No. Oh, you see, you know, diagenies lay in there on the ground. He's just chilling. It looks up at him and he says,

stand a little out of my son. That is... A man who was conquering a quarter of the planet at this time, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Could you just get out of my son, man? Yeah, I mean, it was before he was conquering,

but still he was like, great. Oh, okay, okay, yeah. But he's still a great, like he was conqueringry, but still he was like, oh, okay, okay. Yeah, but he's still a great For it like he was congry and a bunch of stuff at that time just grease right one of the most important people Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think he had beat the Persians by that time had at least beat like one of the big battles I guess the Persians, but as he was walking away though Alexander said, but truly if I were not Alexander I wish our were Diogenes. Yeah, I mean, to be fair,

yeah, everything that had to be weighing on that guy each and every day and then to be like, you know, kind of ceremonyously, like coming upon Diogenes and he's like, yeah, yeah, all right, man, cool. You're in my son. Exactly. Just have that little bit of like, get a couple more quotes,

just kind of lead us out, you know. I guess like, you know, some people say they died by holding his breath or that he got ill from eating raw octopus or even from like a dog bite, but he probably just died a little age. That's what I think, you know, that's what I want to think. I let, no, I like the raw octopus. It's kind of, yeah, that's true.

But, well, you know, I think it's all three. I think he was super old and he like maybe a dog bit him And then he's like oh, if I eat rock to push so maybe feel better and then it made him like suffocate He's super old From the industry he goes to the market buy some rock to push is eating it a dog want some Bites his ass on the hand. He's like man. We roll it on the top it died in the top. That's yep That's what happened so two last quotes for you. He has the most who is most content with the least. Yeah, I could, yeah, I could understand that. It's one of my favorite quotes actually,

though, is we have two years and one tongue so that we would listen more and talk less. I love that. That's one of my favorite quotes ever. But that That is. Yeah, that is one that you have heard narratively or as a part of a speech or something like that. Like, yeah, they're very incorporated quote. So before you decide to take us out, I must ask you, the million dollar question, Brad, if you were to be casting a film based on the life and times of Dioge and who would you cast to play him? Man, we haven't done this in forever. No, we haven't.

That's why I wanted to break it out. You know what? Because it's hard because he had a big old beard. Can I give you my cop-out answer really quick? Yes. So I literally was looking up pictures before we started this segment. And I will make the complaint that when you base this off paintings and statues, like it feels like everybody has the same archetype of four characteristics of face.

But I will say this, the one that shot at me, and maybe it's just because he's about to play Napoleon, but Joaquin Phoenix, bro, I think he would play a cool dad, and he's plus like that whole time in his life where he was like really off the deep end, it seemed like like I think it would really be fitting with his like public persona. I'm gonna go with a little different direction with this one.

And he's also I think Greek, Zach Galaphanakis. Oh my God, yes he is Greek and yeah, that's right. He's hilarious. Would you, would you do it as a comedy? It would have to be. His whole life just seems so comical. It's just so like carefree and yeah. Oh man, it seemed like a little good life.

A very carefree life, you know? So hopefully you died happy. But anyways, that's the tragedy. He's like, he was a great philosopher. I do want to go to more philosophers in the future. I would love to talk about more of them. He was just like, when I think philosophers, that's the first one that comes up to my mind because he's hilarious and he's my favorite.

Yeah, no, definitely. And I feel like it's a funny note though that like those two kind of weird, those subjects that we both conveniently covered today had those weird elements of perversion between like a character like Roshi and the character like Dioge and he's that is very cool that we like dub in that highly perverted fashion so I don't know about cool with that being said we'd love to thank you for joining us here each and every week on the Brain Soda podcast for Brad I am Kyle and you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, on Patreon, where you can get

early access to these episodes by one week. And as a celebration for episode 30, we'd love to thank you even more so for your continued support. We know we have a small base of listeners, but they have stuck around. We appreciate them so much. We ask of you please share this episode with your friends and with that we will see you again here soon. See you. Bringsoda