Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 101 - Marc Forgione

Episode Date: April 19, 2022

New York chef and restaurateur Marc Forgione brings us into the fire at Peasant and beyond. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa So good to have you here On another glorious, glorious day. We have a very talented chef and restaurateur Mark Forge Dion, who is a great guy, spent a good amount of time with him. he's got amazing restaurants in New York and we were lucky to have him and I think you're really

going to enjoy it. I would like to thank the good people at Helix Sleep for sponsoring today's show. Helix Sleep, you can take their two minutes sleep quiz and they'll match you to a mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. I sleep on a Helix mattress and I have to say it's been over a year now and it has changed my life. I know some of you are sleeping on some saggy old mattresses at night and you deserve better than that. So give yourself an upgrade. Find your perfect mattress at helixsleep.com slash papa. Take their sleep quiz. You can't lose. Put in your little information and see what kind of mattress you need. Also, I would like to thank the good people at Sunday lawn care. Spring is here.

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Great company. Also, like to thank the good people at Better Help. This podcast is sponsored by the good people at BetterHelp Online Therapy. They offer video phone and even live chat sessions with our therapists. See why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp help. Listeners, get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash papa. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P BetterHelp.com slash Papa. So I just got back home.

I have been slamming doing shows all over this great land of ours and have been, I can't even, I want to. Now that I'm coming out the other side of it, I want to add up how many flights. Because I distinctly remember, it's all kind of vague kids. It's all kind of vague. but I, two separate times over the last couple months have said to my friends something like I've been on 16 flights in the last eight days. Comments like that.

I've been in so many hotel rooms. I've been so many places. All great. The shows have been amazing. Getting out, hearing from all of you who've been listeners to the podcast and coming out and hanging live. and when I signed books at the end of the show, getting to actually talk to you all has been such a cool thing.

Totally enjoyable, but it's been a hustle and a bit of a grind at the end. I started to get weary. I only really get weary when I got to drive, when you throw driving into the mix. If I've got to land someplace, like I was in Cleveland, and then rocked out five shows there, so great, all sold out, beautiful people. Hilarity is one of the best clubs in the country. Just great. Next night, I had to be in Cincinnati for a private event. And not a huge drive, three and a half hours,

beautiful country, but just that grind of driving a little bit extra, that put me in a tired state by the time I got to Cincinnati. Cool town, weary, got in, meditated, which always revives me. I wasn't really firing off on all cylinders. It did the trick. It stopped me from passing out, but it did kind of mentally wake me up, as it always does. It's always a very reliable thing. I can't recommend TM enough.

But then I was like, all right, so what do I do? It's Sunday. I don't have the show tonight. The shows the next night. What am I going to do? Am I just going to get some more salty snacks and sit in my room? How am I going to play this? And I remembered, I did a private event for Chris Collinsworth and his family in Cincinnati.

It was five years ago. Great charity, great organization that his family runs, helps a lot of people. did the show, and then got invited to go to dinner with him and his family at this steakhouse called Jeff Rubies. And I was feeling nostalgic and weary, and I said, you know, I deserve to eat something decent. And I was literally down to one or two meals a day on the road throughout Cleveland and places and not eating much, not treating much, just going to work, which is fine.

It was like I'm a comedy monk out there. sometimes, just focusing on the job at hand and fitting meals in between. But now it's a Sunday, like I said, around 5 o'clock, 4.30 even. And that place, that memory comes into mind. We had such a great night that time. I mean, could it be any cooler than sitting with the voice of the NFL, Chris Collinsworth, and having a great meal at this great place? It was a, it was a a dream. So I said, okay, so it's Sunday. I'm rolling over there myself. It's not far from my hotel. Let's go solo and let's eat like a king. And I went out, just no reservation, just walked up several blocks, found the place, went inside. What a good move. What a great move. So once in a while,

We all love eating with people. We all love breaking bread with lots of people. We like getting to know people and discuss and do things. But once in a while, not even at the bar. I'll take a nice table and they brought me over. And this is the good, this is why places like this stick around. That place has been around for a long time. The staff has changed from the time I was there last.

The cooks probably changed. I don't know if the hedge's. chef is the same or not. But it's reliable. You go and you sit at this place, you sit down, order an ice-cold martini, and the whole orchestra starts to play. The ice-cold martini is great. The server was amazing. We agreed and talked, and I knew exactly what notes I wanted to hit, and we slowed the whole thing down, not to rush and be slamming with a bunch of food and that out on the street and I just sat by myself observing the other couples watching everybody enjoy themselves and it was early enough where you were seeing the place come to life and I had these amazing

oysters Rockefeller came out it looked like it was too big you may have seen it I posted it on Instagram ate the whole thing just perfect with a martini as the first martini was completed they bring that out. And it was like, I thought I was going to go to wine, but no, this really, I don't, probably shouldn't have two martinis, but let's do it. It's just too perfect with the oysters. And it was, it was heavenly, followed by a classic wedge, which you have to do in a steakhouse.

Then this barrel cut fillet came out with this crazy potato. on the side. I'm forgetting the name of the potatoes, but it was special. They were kind of, they were kind of sliced and then put into a pancake. Oh my God. It was one of those meals, one of those pound-the-table meals when you're just enjoying it so much. You're actually mm-mm, mm-mm, and you're banging on the table by myself. And everything was great. The guy coming up, the guy clearing, the woman who is seating everybody, the manager coming by. It was all just so great. It felt like family. I was by myself. And when I dumped out of that place, I felt completely restored. I was like, I could travel the rest of my days. Sure, I want to go home. But this

steakhouse experience isn't at home. This will get me through. So a big thank you to everybody over there at Jeff Rubies. A big thank you to Chris Collinsworth for turning me on to the place in the first place. And I can't endorse the ritual of that kind of experience for yourself in any level. At any level, you can go to a hot dog stand. You can go to a ball game, just that thing of just being by yourself, catching your breath. Eating alone, breaking bread and with no one but yourself. Once in a while, kids, I can't, I just do it.

Today, we tag along on the culinary journey of chef and restaurateur Mark Forgeone. Mark's passion and family lineage brought him through the restaurant world from sous chef to head corporate chef at BLT Group. I've had serious stakes at BLT Prime in New York. York, winning season three of the next Iron Chef in 2010, which made him a national household name. Going on to opening Mark Forgeone in New York, along with the great story that he shares in our conversation about taking over the legendary peasant, where I will soon be eating a fire-cooked pork dinner by myself. It really serves like 10 people, but, as you'll see in this conversation,

I've made arrangements. He's a very cool guy who, as you will see from our conversation, is constantly exploring, still continuing to grow, despite the responsibility of running such a successful business. And that is the real takeaway that you'll come from this conversation is it's able to grow, it's able to become successful, you're able to have your name pushed ahead on the scene, but still have that same little drive and curiosity and passion that got you into the game in the first place, you can still carry that the distance. So enjoy now my conversation with Mark Forgione.

Thanks for being here, Mark. Yeah, I'm a good beer. Nice to meet you. You too. You have beautiful places in my favorite city. And I figure I'm going to start today by going, starting, in the present and then we'll work our way backwards, rather than talk about your little origin story

and you coming up and becoming the cool guy that you are. Give me some good vibes and good stuff that's going on in your spots right now at Peasant and Keog, because I know we're no longer showing vaccinations, where you've survived all of the chaos from the two years of restaurant hell. How are you feeling these days? good man um i hate to admit i almost feel like a like a like a beaten animal though where like

you're like you're almost afraid to like enjoy it yeah because you're waiting for you know your your owner to hit you again um but we feel great the restaurants are are you know knock on wood they're all cranking um people are coming in and they're happy um you know it's funny one of one of the kind of leftovers i guess you can say from covid is is one of the positive leftovers um is that guests have become like easy i guess easier to please i don't know if that's the best way to put it but i don't know maybe it's like you know maybe things got put in perspective, like maybe I shouldn't complain that the water's too wet. You know what I mean?

Just because I feel like it. And, you know, people, I think people have been humbled. And now they come and they sit and they're just so excited. And, you know, even now, you still have people that are like, this is my first dining experience. And, like, you can't believe that there's still people that haven't been out to eat. But, yeah. So, you know, everybody's just happy to be sitting at a bar or, you know, ordering food. or getting service.

You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, like you just said, people are just happy that you don't have to show ID anymore. You know what I mean? It's like,

yeah, no, I know. That was to me a big, I used to hate it. It was like, instead of saying welcome, you were saying stop.

Right, right, exactly. Yeah, wait a minute. It's like whenever I start off a show and they come on with the announcement and they're like,

but first, put your cell phones away, shut up, sit down, Dave. And it's like, just be nice to the people. But it's good to hear, though, because, you know, when I'm on the road is when I really kind of felt it, like, returning to some of these, like, nicer hotels that I would, you know,

always go when you get room service. And now they're, like, scurrying up with a plastic bag with some play and just throwing it in. I got this dish of really nice risotto, but it literally came in this, like, cup. Yeah. But it was great. It was like, well, this is, this is fine. This is, I think we all adjusted, right? Yeah. No, completely. Now, did you, did you have any scary moments where you thought maybe we're not going to pull through? Yeah. I mean, the first year, probably. I mean, it wasn't necessarily like, I don't know, scared is the right word, but it was more like, you know like you just had no idea you know like you felt like you were just like hanging on a trapeze like you'd wake up and you just say okay well what what's going to happen today you know like

yeah what how are we going to get to tomorrow and you did yeah yeah I think that was one thing that I you know preached to my to my staff and my family not just work but everyone you know like listen, let's control what we can control. Let's take one day at a time. And, you know, let's figure out how we're going to do what we need to do today. You know, we'll circle back in the morning. Right, exactly. It's like, that's how it was.

Yeah. For a long time. Yeah. On your Instagram, I have to say, this is a bit of a segue, a bit of a sidebar, but it seems like you're a very proud Papa. Yeah, man, he's my little. dude, Santino. You know, we just got, we got lucky, you know.

Yeah. He's just a joy to be around. And, you know, I think I've probably, without even realizing it, wanted to be a dad for a while. And, you know, somebody pulled me aside right before he was born. And like, don't worry, you're going to be, you're going to be great. You know, you're always so paternal to everybody at work, which I never even really thought about or realized until, you know, now, I guess. So I love it. I love being a dad. Yeah, it's cool.

You had this great shot of both of your pairs of shoes. It was like, oh, that's so great, just having the little dude following you around. Did you grow up with brothers and sisters? I did. I had two brothers and a sister. Okay. And where did you grow up? Long Island.

Gone Park. Nice. I grew up in the, I grew up in the other Long Island, New Jersey. Jersey. All right. Yeah. You know, it's so weird you just said that. I was out with a couple from Long Island and a couple from New Jersey last night. And we were joking, you know, about how they're, you know, whenever the two groups get together somewhere, they always argue. But the fact of it is, they're the exact same people. I know. Exactly. They're exactly the same. Yeah. I mean, you know why they're both exactly the same because they're both the same in that they're both not New York City.

Yeah. But like I said, it's just so funny. They fight over bagels and beaches and it's all the same shit. I know, exactly. Pizza, they never did. Yeah, exactly. What was the food like when you grew up? My mom was a great cook.

My parents actually met at culinary school. Oh, no way. Yeah, my mom can cook. And, you know, obviously I didn't see my dad a lot because he was working. Right. Which I can totally understand now. Right. But we always ate like real, I hate to say real food, but real food.

You know, there was no chef Poyardee or, you know, frozen meals coming out of the freezer. Yeah. Which I always thought funny when I ate over at people's houses. Yeah, my mom's a great cook. We would eat fast food every once in a while to do. I mean, it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like a restaurant every night. Yeah. But we had dinner.

We had dinner every night, six o'clock, the whole family. Right. Yeah. Like I said, 50, I would say nine times out of ten, my mom cooked, and every once a while we would order it. Right. Was it mostly Italian food? What was it? No, my mother's not Italian.

Oh, no. So she did spaghetti meatballs was definitely in her rotation. She makes a great meatball. She would mix it up. But chicken alequine was one of her things. She always did this sausage with sauerkraut and potatoes that we loved. You know, obviously we do hot dogs and hamburgers. Right.

You know, basically like the Americana. Yeah. Yeah. Feeding the kids. So was there a point when you in your youth that you were like started like checking food out and thinking I'm going to start? I was always attracted, always attracted to the stove. Yeah. I think like, you know, I was making my own eggs when I was, I don't know, man, I was still in grammar school.

You know, I remember like, you know, wanting to know how to like flip stuff in the saute pen and ever since I was a kid. like, you know, I was small enough where we had to put like a box or something next to the stove that I could stand up. Nice. Maybe it was because it was what my dad did. I don't know, but I was just always, I always loved cooking and, you know, even like I would help my mom cook. Like, you know what I mean?

It was like I was just always attracted to to it from the get-up. Yeah. Did your siblings, were they into it or was it really your thing? I don't think any of them were into it as much as me. My brother is actually a chef now, but yeah, I don't know if he asked him if he's always had a level of food his whole life, probably not. But as he got older, I think he appreciated it. And he had to support his family at a very young age.

Right. So I think he kind of got forced in the kitchen, but now he seems to love it now. Right, right. Peasant, you know, I can't even, I can't remember if I was. at peasant when I was in New York when I lived in New York a long time and I first of all you both of your sites for for your site and the Kio and and Peasant whoever does your photography is amazing it really I mean we have we have different people for over the years but yeah there you know I've been blessed to work with

some great people Michael Condren Evan Sung It's just really, really talented. Really talented. Man, because a lot of times, you know, that food doesn't really play that great. And the visuals of your stuff is amazing. It really is so good. And I wanted to, a peasant I wanted to talk about just because of fire. It's just fire, love of all things, fire, this giant stove and this, and this, the, the whole pig.

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I mean, I don't know if you know the whole story, but it's just like, you know, talk about like right place, right time, so the right thing. You know, Peasant was my favorite restaurant before I took it over and like I did an event there for the New York Food and Wine Festival. Like I hosted a dinner there. Right. And I, you know, I made a speech to the crowd about, you know, how much I love Peasant and how much I love and respect for. Frank DeCarlo, a long time owner of it.

And Frank kind of pulled me aside, made sure that I meant everything I said. And then he called me a couple of months later and he was like, look, nobody knows, but I'm retiring. You know, if you really meant everything you said, you know, I don't want, you know, in his way, you know, he's, I don't want it to become a Starbucks or an Apple store. You know, there's too much blood, sweat and tears in there, you know. Yeah. I want to give it to somebody that's going to do right by it. And he basically was like, do you want it? Wow.

What a crazy call. God. Yeah. Like I said, if I wasn't at that event and I didn't make that speech, like. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? Who knows?

How long was it in business before you had that night? 20 years. Wow. Man, man. Crazy. That is crazy. And, you know, now I get to, I mean, again, I pinched myself. still like when I'm leaving work.

Like I can't fucking believe. I'm just, you know, I'm, I smell like smoke. I get in the car cab. I couldn't be happy. Yeah. Oh, man. It's been a dream. Like, I love cooking there.

I love cooking with the fire. Yeah. You know, we just did a huge event last night called playing with fire where like I invite guest chefs to come. And the first one was with Wiley Defrein, which was a trip for me. I've always been such a big fan of his. Last night was with, uh, this guy, Brian Ford. it was like all things baking and sourdough and oh really tell me about that tell me about that that's my

that's my life it was fun man i mean i got into sourdough like most chefs during lockdown um that's actually what we make our pizza dough with now oh nice and um you know he uh he came up on our radar about somebody that could be a fun collab with. And he's from Latin America. So we actually did like a Latin American themed dinner last night. Oh, wow. A lot of fun. I think we'll start posting stuff on Instagram and check it out.

What was the highlights? We started with this thing called the Fugazette, which is kind of like a calzone, stuffed with cheese and onions. Oh, boy. We did some empanadas. We did some saviets. we did, you know, with homemade tortillas. We did an aros compojo with a hen and like some dirty rice.

And then we did these, I don't know if you've been to Peru, but they do these anti-cucho, which are like the skewers. Oh, yeah. So we did three different types of belly. There was waggy beef, pork, and lamb. Oh, my God. All grilled over the fire. It was like, it was fun.

Is there something when you bring these guys in? I mean, this is kind of like your origin story, where you had, and it seems like it happens a lot where there's a chef and then there's a mentorship or there's just a respect for each other and you bring them in, you know, that is all set. But is there something even more profound about doing that in this setting of literally the fire? Well, that's why I, that's why we did it. It's like I know when I didn't have peasant and I used to eat there. Yeah. You know, I used to just sit and just, with my jaw open and just look into that kitchen.

I mean, it's literally like the coolest. I mean, it's like, you know, it's like iconic thing. Like you can't build them like that now, even if you wanted to. And so, you know, we came up with this idea. Like, if I had such a passion for that kitchen, I would imagine there's other guys out there that would do. And I made a couple calls. And like, everybody I called were like, yeah,

I'd love to cook in that kitchen. So, you know, know who knows how long we're going to do it but we're just going to keep making calls and that's so cool if we have somebody for that month they're going to they're going to come in oh that's so great i mean there's something next next is uh anita low Anita low we're from anisa from New York yeah yeah there's something just so tribal about that there's something's very primitive and like right I mean yes and it also forces you to um you know you can't just like set it and forget it you got to like really you know you

got to add the fire, you got to adjust how you're cooking. You know, it's like when you're, when you're searing, like, for example, like when you're working like a restaurant, like at Mark Ford-Jone, for example, you know, when you seeer the fish, like you know exactly how hot to get in your pan and, you know, when to add the fish. When you, when you're working over at Peasant, like the part of the grill that you had the fish on 10 minutes ago is not going to be the same temperature. So you have to, you're never stopping adjusting. It's such a cool, like, if you're into that sort of, you know, sadomasochism, it's a cool way to cook.

Yeah. Have you ever been to antique bar in Hoboken? Yep. Oh, no, not in Hoboken, no. It's this cool spot, and it's a coal oven. It was, it's been there since, like, the night, since the early 1900s. And it's giant coal oven. It takes up the whole block.

It's the same thing. It's just there's like artistry and panic at the same time. Yeah, every night. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help Online Therapy. Relationships take work. A lot of us will drop anything to go help someone we care about and we'll go out of our way to treat other people well. But how about treating ourselves well?

Very similar to my story I told about the Steakhouse. This month, Better Help Online Therapy wants to remind you to take care of the most important relationship, the one you have with yourself. Whether it's hitting the gym, making time for your haircut, or even trying therapy, you are the greatest asset. So invest the time and effort into yourself like you do for other people. We all need people to talk to once in a while. Sometimes you just need to talk it out loud. We all have stuff great and small. It could just be little things that are nagging you. You don't even know why. You're just walking around in a mood. Or it could be issues that you really,

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yeah and we thought we just put it out there to see if people would be interested and um you know again we get like four or five requests a week wow and you know you get you know you get you get an entire pig. Yeah. A couple courses, you know, we kind of throw pork in as many things as we can just for fun. Right. And people love it, man. You can feed anywhere from depending how much your party can eat.

You know, I'd recommend you as low as you go, it'd probably be like eight to ten people. And you could go up as high as, you know, 15, 16. Wow. How big a pig, how big a pig for eight people? Um, they're usually around 10 pounds, give a take. Where do they come from? Upstate New York. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Nice. Do you have a, do you have a, um, a, uh, respect or is it one of your goals to use locally sourced stuff? Yeah, whenever possible. I mean, it's tough with an Italian restaurant, obviously, because we get a lot of Italian products in. Right. Um, but as far as.

like produce and seafood and the meat, we try whenever we can. Right. But for example, like we're using a Piedmontes beef for the tartar. And, you know, that comes from Central America, not Central America, but Central United States. But whenever we can, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say probably 85 to 90% of all the fresh stuff is local.

Right. And tell me about the other spot. Which one? Keog. Is there more than one? Is there three? There's Mark Ford Joan. There's Peasant and Kiev.

You know, I was, I was buzzing on the Mark one, and I'm like, it seems like he's, he's just the cool guy in the middle of all of these two restaurants. I didn't realize that it was at your own spot. I apologize. That's all good. Yeah. That's my first. That's, we're coming up on. we opened in 2008, so it's going to be 14 years in June.

Holy cow. So you opened in 2008. When did you do Iron Chef? 2011, I believe. And what did that blow things open? I mean, it was such a time for it. Yeah, we were already like doing okay. I mean, listen, I opened.

It was a recession. Like it was a tough, tough time to open. Yeah. And Tribeca is a tough neighborhood to crack. Trust me. Yeah. We were doing okay. We had a Michigan star at that point.

People were starting to kind of know who I was. And then there's this stupid story. Again, you can probably Google it, but I like kicked this guy out of the restaurant that happened to be a writer for the New York Times. And then that was kind of the stick of dynamite that like, you know, because this guy wrote an article and it like blew up. and people like, oh shit.

But every time, you know, he, every time people would click on it, you know, the headline was like, you know, Michelin Star Chef throws New York Times writer out. And so it was like advertisement. You know what I mean? It was like. Yes. Was it just for our listeners, tell me why you kicked him out?

I was yelling at somebody in the kitchen, which now I'm a little older, you know, looking back on it. Probably not the best. thing to do, but I was yelling at somebody. And he came into the kitchen and like basically told him, he said up. So it kind of blew up. And then what people don't realize is I didn't necessarily kick him out for that.

Because I then came out to the table to kind of explain the situation of why I was yelling. And I was actually going to apologize that, you know, but as I like got to the table, he basically was like, you know, I'm not. interested in anything you have to say. And he kind of waved his hand in my face. Oh, boy. So at that point, I was like, well, you know, I just came out here to apologize, but now you got to go.

And like I said, it just kind of, again, kind of like Penn is in one of those right place, right moment, right? Yeah. And it's like I just, I've had a lot of those in my life where it just, it turned into something. Yeah. That moment. Next thing, I know I got a call from the Food Network and they were like, hey, we're doing

next iron chef. You got one spot left. You won it. You know, and I laughed. I was like, sure. I didn't think in a million years I would win. And then I went on the show and I won. It was like all kind of history.

That's so great. Did you know he was from the Times? No. You just, I would have kicked him out regardless. Yeah. It was very disrespectful when I went to the actual team. Right. What balls to come back in?

into the kitchen. I mean, that's like sacred space. Yeah, I mean, listen, that too. Like I said, that was that was just the tip of the iceberg with the reason he got kicked out. I actually thought it was funny. I have a feeling it wasn't the first time he got kicked out of a restaurant because when I started to walk over to the table, his wife started packing up her thing. Here we go again. Exactly. Oh, that's amazing. Has the times come? come back and reviewed your spots since then?

I got reviewed after that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great review. Oh, that's great. Is that funny? It's, there really is that thing. And now I'm actually friends with the guy who wrote the reviews named Sam Sift. He's not the critic anymore.

Oh, Sam. Yeah. Yeah, I love Sam. Sam's been on our program. Yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah, he is a great guy. He's a big fan of ours. And like I said, he gives us great review, which really kick started everything.

and he's made the, we have this dish called the chili lobster that he was like obsessed with. Oh, nice. So he's turned it into like a thing. He's such a good writer too. I mean, every, I just love reading his newsletter every morning of just, he's so good with words. So if he shines a light on your spot, man, that's a, that's a beautiful thing. Wish they could all be like him. I know.

Right, exactly. So when you, so after you start getting success, how, how much of it now is putting yourself out and doing your own personal publicity? You know what I mean? And how much of it is the food? Like, I mean, obviously, you put your heart and soul into it. You have such distinct spots. There, you obviously have a real love of it. as I do with comedy. But then all of a sudden you're like, okay, but now I've got to put my big mug places. Can you sell a place without just your, without Mark or can it,

does it help it just so much more now? Well, it's kind of like two different answers, I think, because like I've been on both sides of it, right? Yeah. And that's why I was saying before, like, you know, even before we went on

the TV and you know, all that kind of stuff. Like, we were already established and getting established. I always say, I've always said when I do interviews, I would love to know what would have happened if, because we were like kind of like, you know, going that way. Yeah. And that just helped, obviously. But I will say this.

And New York, in particular, I don't care how famous you are or how. how much you're on TV or how many cookbooks you have or how many Instagram followers you have or whatever it is. In New York in particular, if you're not putting out real food and not only putting it out but putting it out consistently, you know, you're not going to make it. Yeah. Celebrity chefs don't come to New York and, you know, just kind of slap some stuff on there and, you know, the New Yorkers are like, yay, you know, it just doesn't work.

And, you know, I'm sure the list is long. It's all your chefs that have tried. Yeah, yeah. You know, New Yorkers are serious eaters. So, and like I said, if you falter even for just like a couple weeks, you'll start to lose covers. I mean, it's crazy. Like, we have to be on every single night. So, like I said, whether I might be able.

But does it help? Of course it helps. I said to my, or said to me. my staff when, you know, after I knew I won, we weren't allowed to tell anybody. And obviously, we knew that it was going to change everything when I won. Yeah. But I said to my staff, like, look, the celebrity is going to get people to come here to check it out. Right.

But we are going to be responsible for getting them to come back. Right. Yeah, exactly. And I, you know, I treat that all the time still to this day. you know again like with peasant you know like you know it was kind of everybody kind of buzzing and you know we took it over we just opened a wine bar and you know people are starting to chatter about it and like i said the same thing to that stuff you know like the chatter gets people to come check you out right right right you know getting them to come back is what makes you have a 14 year anniversary right right exactly it's yeah there was

a there was a similar thing in comedy where if somebody gets some kind of publicity and gets, you know, wins like Last Comic Standing or something and goes out. And it's like, okay, you better be ready, though, when you go out and tour because you'll sell tickets that first time through. But unless it's quality, they're not coming back the next time you come around. Yeah. It's the truth. So what is your, what's on your mind now?

Like when you're, when you're thinking about, about your menus, when you're thinking about where to go next, what to do with the, like, what food-wise? on your mind? Well, I mean, right now spring. Yeah. You know, we're getting all the wild stuff in again, which is great. You know, I have two different people that kind of go into the woods and grab all the beautiful wild goodies that are popping up.

Really? Right now there's like wild chives and knotweed and taranone and chickweed and green garlic and wild ginger. I mean, it's all the stuff. It's coming out of the ground first. And it's like, I love it. What do you mean they go into the woods? I have, like, yeah, I have two foragers, yeah.

And, you know, like I said, they get all the, right now, the next month is like the most exciting time. Because it's like, really just starts to pop out. Oh, that's amazing. And does it, and how much does it, how much does it change what you're, what you're offering? Like, so the for the forager comes in and they're like, okay, here it is. And you know for that night or the next couple of nights that you're going to be able to. I mean, for example, I just got two giant bags of wild broccoli rob delivered. Oh, you know, so now we're doing broccoli rob specials at both restaurants.

Oh, that's amazing. And we'll have it for the next, you know, two days. And then it'll be gone. And then we'll see what we get next week. They send out a list of like, hey, I just found this. I found this. Do you want this? You want that kind of thing.

Oh, that's a list. Yeah, it's the fun, fun way to cook. Like I said, spring and summer is a lot of fun. Winter, you've got to kind of dig in a little bit. But the spring and the summer, I really go by like the, I let what's available kind of dictate what we're going to cook. And is it at this point, you know, you're so established. It's literally your life and your being at this point.

Is it pure instinct or are you, do you still like research or get stuff from other chefs? Like, where's the learning? I read every morning. You do? Yeah, my wife hates it. I have like 500 cookbooks in our farm. I've been reading a lot of Italian cookbooks as of late for kind of obvious reasons. Right.

But, yeah, I'm always reading a cookbook in the morning. Do you have a favorite Italian? I always find myself kind of going back to, to, I don't know if you know, Paul Bertoli is in California. Oh, yeah. He was at Chapin' East, then he had his own restaurant. But I know it sounds stupid, but I'll pick up books that I've had for like 10 years and just kind of read them again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've probably read that one the most. It's just fun to read. He's a great writer as well as a chef. Oh, it's the best. Mark Selahazahn. Of course, yeah, I have herself. Yeah. Yeah.

I keep reading that. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I don't have the patience to do what she does with vegetables. Yeah. Like, like, like, there's another one too that I, that I, that I just got kind of introduced to it. It's an old book. I'm blanking on her last name, but the first name is Diane. And the book is called A Splendid Table. Right.

And it's so good, Italian rustic. It's so good. Really? All right. I'm going to look it up. I'm going to look it up for sure. I'm in Fortilly or something like that. Right.

That's hilarious that you've got that many cookbooks. I have to bring them to the restaurant now because I can't store them in our apartment. Now I have almost too many in the restaurant. They're everywhere. But it's amazing. It's amazing that you can still be learning. You could just kick back and be like, all right, I'm good. Right?

I could. But you know what? I don't know how to. to do it. I think I may have even tried. You know, like, oh, I'll just let my chefs do everything. Like, you know, like, yeah. I don't know how to do it. Not yet. You know, I still, I still scribble my stuff down on a little notepad.

And then I call my guys and we sit down and we talk. And, you know, I just, I just had the meeting, you know, two hours ago with my chef about, you know, white asparagus with juniper and, you know, brown butter. You know what I mean? It's like, I think they actually appreciate that too. Yeah. Oh, man,

I would imagine. You know? Yeah. As much as you want to drive the car yourself, it's still nice to have a partner to do with. Yeah. No, 100%.

It's a lot to carry. I mean, do you ever get crushed by the, by the weight of the business part of it? You know, I have a really great team, a really solid partners. So they kind of take that out of my wheelhouse.

Oh, that's good. So to speak. I mean, obviously I have to pay attention. But point being, like, let me do what I'm good at. You know what I mean? And you guys do what you're good at. We'll meet once a week and we'll have our financial meetings and we'll do all that. Right.

You know, like I said, I focus on what I'm good. that. Yeah. That's being a restaurant tour and the chef and, you know. Yeah. That's so great. You're right. Yeah. What is your, uh, what's your style when you're handling people? It's funny. It's evolved over the years. Um, you know, I think in the beginning, um, it was probably left over from a lot of the guys that I worked with when I was younger, where I was just like, well, if you can't, you can't handle it, you know, you know, get the fuck out of it. here, you know what I had to do with? You know, like, that was kind of my early mentality.

Yeah. And then as I got a little older, I think it was more of like, you know, like, look, if you can't get on this train, like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, we're moving fast. Like, right, right. And now I think, you know, kind of COVID and maybe being a dad, all kind of happened at the same time. So I think I'm way more, I don't know, in terms.

tune with the fact that like, you know, I don't think I need to yell at somebody if they chop chives the wrong way. Right. Yeah, a little perspective. Yeah, totally. Yes, I think it put life into perspective. And like, let's also, too, like the crews that I have at both restaurants have, like, stayed through this whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's really become like a really tight family kind of. Right. You know, we've been through the ringer, you know. It's like going into a foxhole. Yeah. You know, the show is probably not long enough to go through everything that we all went through,

as did everybody else in the world. Yeah. But I think everybody has just like, again, like you said, a kind of appreciation. Yeah. You know, like all we have to do is get through service tonight. Right. No problem. Okay.

I think we can do that. Whereas that used to be like, you know, like, blah. And now it's just kind of like, yeah, okay. Well, they didn't like this. It's like, okay, well, let's figure it out. Let's get another one, you know? It's amazing. It's amazing.

It'd be great if that holds, you know what I mean? If it doesn't go back to the old way of... Yeah, I think it's going to hold for me. I don't know if it's going to hold for everybody. Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like restaurant culture was evolving anyway without the pandemic? Like, you know, like the 90s, like all those. legendary, like you're saying, like, those chefs that were known for just being crazy and, like, drinking like crazy and kind of a little more abusive in the kitchens.

I think, you know, the whole, you know, the, we'll call it the Me Too movement. I mean, that, that, that changed that, you know, there was like a period of like six months where, you know, I don't want to say their names, like, some of my friends of mine and, like, you know, that was like, if, you know, that was like, if. If there was a party going on, like the party ended when those articles start to come out. And I don't think it'll ever, not just in the restaurant business, I mean, I don't think it'll ever, our society is just different now. You know, like, it sounds crazy, but like, you know, I technically can't like have a drink with my staff after work now. You know what I mean? Right, right. It sucks for the people that weren't doing anything wrong. Right.

you know, but at the same time, it's like, you know, you just, like I said, the party ended, you know? Yeah. And I can't, you know, I'm also a little older too, so I don't know. Maybe the younger chefs are still kind of hanging out. Right. But, but I do know that, like, once you have a couple restaurants and you have, like, a company and you just can't do it. No, no way. No, exactly.

And, but, and like you said, you know, it's kind of like in sports, too, and the way that people are like coach now like there were days when people like grab the face mask and abuse their players and like yelling and it's like we're all kind of evolving and like these new generations like we can get the same things done by actually being cool to each other yeah yeah there's a bunch of different arguments on that on both sides you know yeah like people are too soft now and then people are too sensitive now and well it's better for people's mental health you know what I mean so like There's like, yeah, yeah. I don't know.

I just try to be like the best that I can do with what I got. Right. You know, hope that it jives with the people and surround me with people that want to be around there, you know? Yeah, no, totally. Well, it's great. You can tell that you have a real calm love of it and there's no, there's no mistake. I'm very blessed and lucky, man. You'll never hear me say anything other.

also too i mean listen i get to do what i enjoy doing for a living like then you do too right i mean how many millions of people are there that you know they they wake up and they can't stand the fact that they have to go to work like right i know that's the normal story you know so um i you know i get to enjoy it i'm not saying every day is a cake walk or fun but i i try to enjoy it as much as i possibly can because i know how lucky it oh that's awesome well when i get back to new york when I roll through in the next couple of weeks, I'm going to try and stop in. And if I come in by myself and order the pig dinner, just roll with it. No problem.

We did it for two people once, so don't worry about it. We're really nice meeting you, Mark. Continue success. And we'll circle back with you again shortly. Yeah, man. You let us know whenever you want to come up. All right, man. We'll see you soon.

Thanks, bro. All right, thanks. All right, kids, that's the big show. Thank you to Mark Forgeon. I told you was a cool guy. I can't wait to go get my giant pig dinner from him. It's going to be delicious. I'm really starting to string together a good number of places where I have to follow up, just as my duty. You become friends with these people, and they want to break bread with you. That's why we're all here, isn't it? Thank you to Mark. It was a great conversation. I hope all of you out there listening.

Enjoyed it. Keep spreading. the world, the word around the world. Keep coming to my shows at tompapa.com. I'm everywhere. I will be in Huntington, New York, this Friday, and on and on. Big Vegas show. Big Vegas show on May 6th at the Encore Theater at the wind. Come and see me there for sure.

And we will break bread and hug and kiss on the lips. The pandemic's over. All right, everybody. See you real soon.