Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 102 - Joe DeRosa

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

Joe DeRosa, the funniest sandwich making comedian in the game, takes a break from Joey Roses in NYC to join us at the table. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Welcome, everybody to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. Thank you for joining me here at the metaphorical table to enjoy some comedy and food. And we have a great guest for you. We've got Joe DeRosa, who's the perfect combination of everything we like to talk about here on Breaking Bread. Joe is a good friend of mine.

He's a great comedian out of New York. He's been in everything. He's been in Better Call Saul. He's an actor. He loves music. He's a hilarious comic. And he also has started, based on pure passion, Joey Rose's sandwich shop and bar in New York City.

He loves sandwiches. He loves bread and out of a pure passion, like I said, just to make something great that he enjoyed. It is now grown into a real live destination in New York City, making incredible sandwiches. And I can't wait for you to listen to this journey. It's hilarious and heartfelt and passionate. And I'm going to just say passionate 12 more times in the intro. I would like to thank the good people from trade coffee. Trade coffee.

These guys partner with the country's best craft roasters all making the best coffee. I mean, look, we all love coffee. I just assume that everyone loves coffee as much as I do. Whenever I travel, I try and find who's the best coffee shop, who's roasting their own coffee, what's going on in this town. Trade coffee partners with all of those people and then deliver. them to you in your home. Trade customers are truly impactful for these independent roasters, supporting the local economy in small towns and big cities.

Trade is offering new subscribers to this service a total of $30 off your first order, plus free shipping. That makes more than 40 cups of coffee for free. Go to drinktrade.com. Drinktrade.com slash papa. and take their quiz as I did, and you put in all of your preferences, what you like in a coffee,

what are they, do you like it dark, do you like it light, what is your, what is, how do you make it, what's your preference? I'm telling you, I've up my coffee game to the point where my home coffee is better than anything I find out and about.

Like I can't wait to cut, because I know that I have these great beans at home and trade coffee. Once I took the quiz, they start sending me all of these different, different bags of coffee. Here's one from San Diego called Bird Rock.

And I'd never even been in Bird Rock. I have another one in there from Portland, from Portland Roasters. Oh my God, that smells so good. All right, more about that later. Go to drinktrade.com slash Papa, P-A-P-A, and you will get $30 off your first order. Thank you so much for being here. I think I took the last flight

that required masks on Sunday night as of this recording. And I really just needed air. I just really needed air. I kept pulling out the bottom trying to breathe. I have not been anywhere near anti-mask during this thing. It just felt responsible, blah, blah, blah. It's tired of talking about it. But now we can just jump on planes.

We can jump on planes and not have masks. And should we even be reporting COVID cases at this point? It seems like that would be like reporting when someone has a cold or when someone has a bug bite. Like it can be dangerous, of course, but we're at a different phase now. And I think we're allowed to take in a deep breath and enjoy that new phase. I think doing the responsible thing, helping each other out, two years, over two years of it, I think that we are allowed to feel good. I am allowing myself to feel good about this.

Traveled back east, saw my family, had this great Easter brunch made by my muddha, great food, great pastries, great ham, great omelets, bagels, sitting there with all these people who, not that long ago, you were told you cannot see. And I know it's been slow, it's been gradual, and we don't have like big fireworks going and saying, hey, this is it. We're at the end. I think we're allowed to feel that if you protect yourself, we are at the end. And if you feel like you need more protection for whatever reason, you can do that too. But I think that we are definitely in a new space, a new period, a new way of looking at this obstacle that still exists. this. I'm not saying be reckless, but be happy that you've made it. So go and grab your friends and family and enjoy yourselves, and it's okay to not feel guilty and fear filled with fear.

And I say that as my good friend Joey, who's helping me out with this podcast, is just dusting off his little bout with COVID. But even watching Joe go through it, we're okay. this is a new phase. We're doing all right. Joe DeRosa, very funny comedian. He's getting ready to do another special. You've seen him all over Comedy Central. Go to YouTube. Just look up Joe DeRosa. If you don't know him, you should know him. He's been a New York staple for a very long time, very passionate, very thoughtful comedian. And just a great guy. And he gets this idea that he wants to start making sandwiches just out of, not going to say it, just out of joy, just out of remembering the sandwiches that he loved on the East Coast and just

started that journey. And now I can't believe, like, you know, I've talked about it a lot on this program. I bake a lot of bread. And everyone, you have these little ideas. I'll be driving down the street and I'll see a little shop that just became available. And there's another little shop that's empty space next to one of my favorite restaurants. And you think, oh, that could be a spot. for a bread shop. That could be a little place for a cool bakery. But to do it takes a lot. It takes a lot

of effort. It takes a lot of, you need to partner with the right people. You need to dedicate a lot of your time and your energy to it. So you better love it. And Joe loves what he's doing. And he, along with his partner from the Stan Comedy Club in New York City, has realized his dream. Let me give you a little plug here for his website. It is at Joeyroses. Jowyroses, NYC.com. Joeyroses, NYC.com. Check out his sandwich shop.

You could also follow him, follow the shop at Joey Roses Hard Eight on Instagram. And that's a great spot. I mean, you'll link it through the website also, but you'll get to see all the sandwiches. The hard eight are the first eight sandwiches that he created. I just love this. I love people that are passionate. Oh, damn, I said it again. That's the fifth time I've said passionate.

Oh, now, now it's the sixth time. I love people who really just do things out of joy and then wanting to share them. And then look at this. It turned into a business. So great. you're going to enjoy this conversation. We get into a lot of great stuff. Enjoy.

Enough of my babbling. Joe DeRosa. Thank you. Thank you for being here, Joseph. Thanks for having me, buddy. Does anyone call you, Joseph? My nana, when she was alive, did all the time. And my...

By the way, are we on camera, just audio? Both. Oh, it's both. Okay, so I'll try to look... You look great. You don't... try to look at you. I was like looking down and talking. You can look anywhere. My setup's a little weird. So my camera's like over here and then I look at it. It doesn't matter. It does not matter.

When I audition on Zoom, they're like, what are you doing? Where are you looking? I'm like, my camera's over there. I'm sorry. Anyway. My nana used to call me that when she was alive. And then and then my mom sometimes will. But that's it. That's it. Yeah. Where was your nana? Where'd she live? Jersey.

South Jersey. My nana was in North Jersey. Oh, okay. Such a difference between North and South Jersey. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. It's like Virginia and West Virginia. It's like there's a same name, two different places.

Yeah, two very different places. Were there a lot of Italians in South Jersey? Yeah, at least where I was familiar with, you know, my family, my extended family lived in a town called Delran. And it's outside, basically Cherry Hill, let's call it. Yeah. And there's, you know, there's a decent, it's pretty Italian and Irish, you know, in Polish, American there is, you know, as where the suburbs I grew up in in Pennsylvania. Right. And yeah, I mean, you know, it's a lot of the Americanized, it's funny, South Jersey is like when you go to Chinatown in most cities.

You're like, you're like, this is Italian town. Like, it's sort of Italy. Yeah. It's like derivatives of Italian foods and things, but they're Americanized versions and stuff, you know. Right. That's kind of what it's like. Yeah, I was just writing about that. I was doing, writing this essay about my favorite Italian restaurants growing up.

And I was like, Italian food, Italian food. And I was like, let me be clear. We're not talking about Italy. There are a lot, you can get on a plane and go to Italy and visit these. We're talking about Italian food that came into the Northeast and had, was spun with some American ideas and brashness and bigness and Italian. And you end up as Colin Quinn always says, like, in Staten Island with statues of David out on your front lawn. these are the kind of restaurants I'm talking about now. It is very different.

I watched on the plane the other night coming home, the Sopranos, Saints of Newark, many Saints of Newer thing. Yeah, I was not a fan. I know nobody was. I know it, unfortunately. And watching it actually, because it was just off. Like Sopranos, you were just kind of like all in whatever. and Godfatherish.

And this one was just off where I was like, what's with us Italians? You know what I mean? It's like when you watch a comedian, like when you watch a bad comic, you're like, oh, am I that far away from what this guy's doing? I have texted big Jay O'Kerson,

Ari Sheffir, and Sal Volcano, and Dan Soder, all of them, at separate times, I've texted them and said about comedy, what we do is so embarrassing. We're like a step to the left of wedding bands. I mean, this is like, like go on Amazon Prime and just do a deep dive through these specials. It's mortifying.

Like, I know, but isn't that, isn't that like the bad version of it? Or is it, do you think it's, in the good versions. That's why I started texting it to him because I was like, I used to think that this was just the bad version of it. I was like,

it seems to be the bulk of it. Like, you know? And it's, it's honestly, it starts to become like, like, no offense to any wedding bands,

but like, you know, you, when you leave a wedding in the band was good, you're not like, of course the band was good. You're like, you know,

they had a pretty good band of that wedding. Right. I think, That's what comedy is now. It's like, you know, he wasn't bad. Whoa, that was, that was all right. Oh, that's so sad. Yeah.

I saw a special recently, and I won't mention it. And I was just, I watched it in terror, in terror, because I was like, I'm, I feel like I'm one-tenth of a degree away from what's happening on the screen right now. now. Like, I feel like I could eat. It's because you just, you do carry this fear of, you don't want, you work very hard. Comedians work very hard. Try and stay original and not be

hacky and not repeat what other things you see and all that other kind of stuff. And then when you see someone who just misses it, it's, it's frightening. I do that a lot myself. And it's, it's interesting. You're tapping into something I never

thought of before or realize what you just said though it's so insightful you know it's like it's it's like there is a certain there are there are subgenres of stand-up comedy and each one of us participates in one of those subgenres primarily and when you do it right it's great or at least good and when you're off it's the hackiest thing ever and it doesn't take much to be off it's just a few like you said, ticks over. Yep. You know,

so like you and I are very different. But like I know, I know what the hacky version of both of us is. I know what it is. We've both seen it. Yeah. And, you know,

for me, it's like when I see the guy that's like, I'll tell you another thing I'm fed up with. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, no. I know.

I always love those guys. It's like they've run out of things, real things to be angry about. and they're like damn toothpaste dispensers yeah it's never a real thing you know either it's like yeah but like it's it's you know like um i would i would classify i would classify you in in like where i put like the guys like regan and stuff like that where I'm like, here's a guy that's like very clean for the most part. And it's very observational.

And there's a lot of stuff about family in there. But it's really sharp and really well written and really funny. You know what I mean? But if you, you see tons of guys that do exactly what I just described, except the funny part. And for whatever reason, I don't know.

Like it just doesn't. It's, it's, but like there are other guy like, like Ocerson who was just talking about. Jay's a storyteller. Right. He's so good at it.

He's so funny. How many bad storyteller comedians have you seen? We've seen tons. Right. But I think as you're saying it, it really is that classic hackneyed thing, the hack thing. You've seen it before, the derivative thing. It's like as long as you're writing and trying to move in some direction that's honest and that you haven't seen other people do, even if they miss, I can watch them and not feel bad for all of comedy.

because I feel like at least I've never seen someone talk about a monkey using two Q-tips at once, whatever that, you know. Right, right. Right. Like, at least he missed while going into the woods where I've never been before. I'd much rather, I can stomach that. I can't stomach when they're like, it just comes a little bit like I've seen a hundred versions of this thing. I think it's, you know, for me, and I think this is what you're saying, at least to some extent, it's the difference between seeing somebody doing comedy and somebody doing an impression of a comedian.

You know? Yeah. And like, you know, I remember saying to, I did some shows with Michael Lee in Black. And, you know, he, as far as I know, started just in sketch and stuff with the state. And then he did, you know, he's an actor and all that stuff. But he was doing stand-up. And I remember I said to him and I was like, Michael, I mean, this is a huge compliment. Please understand that it's a compliment.

You're really funny and you're not doing an impression of a comedian. Like you're doing. Like I go, because so many guys like you that came over in the last couple of years, I'm like, they're just doing an impression of what they think stand-up is. I'm like, you're actually doing it. Yeah. And I think that applies to whether you start as a stand-up or not. Like people have been doing it for 30 years and you go,

He's still just doing this impression of stand-up comedy. Right. You know, like, yeah, yeah. And that's what was back to the Saints of Newark thing. Oh, yeah. It felt like, it felt like they were pretending, they were pretending to be Jersey, northeast Italians. Like it was, there was not all of it, and they were in and out of it, but it just left that kind of that same terror. when you watch a bad comic as an Italian American.

I was like, oh no, no, no, no. You're going to, listen, you're going to disagree with me. And your fans will crucify me. I've gotten so much shit on my podcast for saying it. I never liked The Sopranos. I felt like that about the show. I felt like it had great moments here and there. Yeah.

But like, you know, scenes with like them, inside Starbucks being like, they took this from us. The espresso was off. I was like, this is embarrassing. This is not a thing that happens. I know Italian guys from Jersey. I know guys that knew guys that were connected.

I knew guys that were connected. They didn't care about that sort of thing. And those characters specifically were over the top. They were like the day, die, day. die. Yeah. There was that, there was that part of it. Is it supposed to be funny though?

Like that's the thing I could ever put my finger. And I was like, is David Chase being like tongue and cheek? Right. I don't know. I think it was, I think it was, I think it was very funny. And people came away thinking it was very funny. I think that, yeah, it's just like you said, like you grew up with people like that. And we have these people like in our family.

and then to see it done, to see it done not well, you start to think, oh, maybe I should just tell people I'm Irish. It's fun. Like, I have an uncle.

He's not in the mob, but he's very much, he's cookie cutter of what the kind of guy they were portraying on the Sopranos was, personality-wise. that demographic and he owned a shop in in jersey and a movie an independent movie was shooting and they asked him could we use your shop to shoot the scene and they he they did and it was I was young at I was 18 at the time I was trying to get into I was I was going I'm sorry I was just out of college

I was 21 and I was trying to get into film because I thought that's what I was going to do and I was so enamored that a that a real movie asked my uncle to use his shop and I knew what the movie was. I knew the scene and I was just like, what was it like? And he's like, what's it like? I don't, what the fuck do I know? They offered me two grand. I was like, fine.

I'll fucking clear out for the day. Like he just was like so just like, I don't fucking care, you know? And that was the thing like that always resonated like that scene I'm referencing in the supremacism. I'm like, these guys like don't. I feel like all they're ever thinking. about is like what is making sense financially and business wise right in this moment who's screwing me and how bad am I getting screwed yeah but um well did you oh go sorry sorry was nana was nana a good

cook no actually terrible yeah interesting very interesting territ not just a bad cook um Not like nurturing either. The anti-nana. Yeah, yeah. I got the short end of the stick with that one. My grandfather, this is my dad's parents. God love them. But, you know, my grandfather was a very, very fussy eater.

He liked things very plain. So my nana, you know, in those days, I feel like if part of the matriarch being a good cook had a lot to do with what the. husband wanted. Uh-huh. You know, and not a lot to do with what the kids wanted or whatever. So, you know, I feel like that affected her cuisine. What did he want?

Just like meat and a white potato and. Yeah, it was like he was like boiled hot dogs, like cut up tomato on a plate. Right. You know, stuff like that. My Nana often, often, I'm not exaggerating, often put out a bowl of Doritos. as part of dinner, like as one of the sides. Full-blooded Italian woman, parents off the boat. Just none of it trickled down.

Oh, my God, that's hilarious. Yeah, side dish. Yeah, like a frequent dish in her house was hot dogs. Boiled hot dogs. It sounds so funny, too. Oh, it's gross. It's so gross. And I love hot dogs, but boiled hot dogs are gross.

But she did introduce me to mortadela, which I am indebted to her for. That was a big moment in my life. And it's that, that, that, that, that, I took that away. So, you know, and she was a good baker. She made good cookies and stuff at, you know, the holidays. So, so. But no, it was not the like, you know, steam is coming out of the kitchen and there's giant pots and all that's. There was not that.

Not all. None of that. You didn't grow up with that at all. What about your mom? Well, my mom, my mom did that stuff. But my grandmom didn't. Right, right. So, and my mom's mom died before I was born. My mom would always say that her mother was big into that stuff. But I never met her, unfortunately. But my mom, yeah, was into it. And my dad's surprisingly a good cook. Oh, yeah. I don't know where he learned it from. But he's, but he, He's a pretty good cook. So, you know, I picked, you know, and then I cook, too. So I picked that up from them and then, you know, from other people. You meet people to teach you things. It is kind of interesting just to think back to that time. Like when you say, like, I don't know where he learned it.

And I know you're talking mainly about your family, but there's also that part of like, how do people learn anything back then? Like you would probably have one book or like one person that would help. Like now, I mean, my, you know, a 15-year-old daughter, the time, like, was cranking stuff out in the kitchen that she's just got her phone going. YouTube is rocking. She's got her stuff off of, you know, subscribing to whatever. The internet is giving her every single answer to everything.

Yeah. She could be an amazing cook. Back then, it was like if you had the Betty Crocker cookbook and a couple clues of what it was what, what, what, it's kind of insane that they were able to do anything. I'm watching that show Julia right now. on HBO Max about Julia Child. And it's incredible. Like her whole thing was I am going to make it so the average housewife can cook French meals with the ingredients she has accessible and with the time she has available. Right.

And she's like the original YouTube like with that, like where it's like I'm going to break it down for you in a way where you're going to be able to do this yourself. Right. I mean, it's so fascinating. but like when I'm in watching the show yeah you're like oh yeah like before the 60s that wasn't a thing yeah and and she's the first one and you've got to nail it while you're watching it there's no pausing there's no recording there's no backup website there's no links like when julia goes for those 22 minutes, you better figure out how to make that polay in real time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like, I remember there was a thing they used to do, and I don't think they did this in the

beginning. I don't think they did this to like the 80s, but my mom watched a lot of cooking shows in the 80s, like who was the frugal gourmet and all those guys. I love the frugal gourmet. Yeah, yeah. And but they would say at the end, if you're interested in today's recipe, write us at and write us. You just send a letter. How far away is that meal going to be made if you're writing a letter and getting it back and then shopping and then cooking? Yeah, it's crazy, you know?

But like you're right though. Now it's so like right before literally right before I hopped on this. I was like I was putting together my shopping list for the week. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to make chili this week. I'm going to make. So with the chili recipe, I was like, okay, I don't want to eat a lot of beans because I'm trying to stay lower on the carbs.

So then I Google, what's good bean substitute? Then you land on best ever chili recipe without beans. You know what I mean? I know. I literally took a picture of it, inserted the picture of the recipe into my shopping list on my phone. When I'm in the store, God forbid, I have to switch apps. I don't have to switch apps.

It's right there. And then I did that for three things. I did that for chili, chicken piccada, and for veal and peppers. But I'm going to make it with steak because I don't eat veal anymore. But steak and peppers and tomatoes. And it's crazy. So I take a little quiz from my people, my friends at trade cars. coffee and they asked me a bunch of questions about what kind of coffee I like, how do I make it,

I tell them I do it as a pour over, I grind my own beans, I like my beans to come whole, I like something that's dark, has a little chocolate to it, has a little floral notes to it. And this is not just being, I hear people use the term coffee snob, but I'm not to say I'm a coffee snob, I enjoy good coffee. you look you go through your life and there are times in your life when you just are starting out and you're drinking bad beer and you're drinking bad coffee and you're eating crappy food because you're not really thinking about it you've got more on you've got more things on your mind how to survive how to hook up with people what party's going to be there's a lot going on and then

as you are become a little more thoughtful for me it took a while some people do it younger you become a little bit more thoughtful about what you're eating and drinking, and you start to search and look for the things that are the best versions of what you enjoy. And that's what coffee has become for me. I am looking purely for, I know now, after years of drinking good stuff and bad stuff, what I really like. And I took the quiz at Trade Coffee, and then they started sending me on this subscription service. bags of beautiful coffee that show up at my place. As I said, this is from Bird Rock in San Diego, and I have another one that just showed up when I got off the road from Portland coffee roasters, and you just know that it's going to fit your taste.

If you do take the quiz and you don't like it, they will actually have a coffee expert work with you and make sure that you get a brand new bag for free of the coffee that you do like. so you start to fine tune it and actually get the coffee that you want. They taste test thousands of coffees to keep 450 different kinds live and ready to ship every day. There's no one perfect coffee, but there's perfect coffee for you and trade coffee is your partner in that. And what a great way to keep local coffee lovers and creators rock and rolling. This is, you know, these people here in San Diego, they're not a national company, but they're able to now send it out nationwide to people who love it.

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It really is completely, there is something good, I will say. Once I started baking bread and started pulling in all of these books, there's something cool to reading a book about it. There's something cool that spending time with it revisiting, slowing it down rather than just popping off. and like I keep amassing books because I do feel like there's something more immersive or just purely enjoyable about it. Yeah.

It's it's that's that's the that's another part of the Julia show is that they're like cookbooks are like this new thing. Well, I guess not that new. They had cookbooks in the 1800s and stuff. But like yeah, the idea of popular cookbooks is a new thing. Right. And, and, and, and it's very. very frowned upon on the show.

Like the publishers are like, please, it's a cookbook. You know, like it's, you know. Yeah. So,

yeah, it's so interesting. It was such a different time. Do you ever watch, two guys I love on YouTube. I love Kent Rollins or Ken Rollins, the, the,

like, Cowboy chef who cooks everything in his yard. I don't know him. He's awesome. He's awesome. He, lives in like Wyoming and he makes everything like on his in his yard like on a grill and a smoker and he's got a whole set up outside it's wild but then there's that other guy i'm blanking on his name

he only does colonial stuff like only makes colonial recipes from colonial cookbooks and he wears the garb he built it's crazy he built a colonial kitchen in his backyard and he built it the way they would have had to build it back then. So he has a video where they're making bricks out of mud. Because he was like, I'm making it as authentic as possible so I can actually see what the food tasted like. Right. That's so insane and great. Yeah.

They've both got like two million followers. Like they're huge. Yeah. Because people admire that. People admire just someone going all. in on pretty much anything. Yeah. That's amazing.

Yeah, I have been, I have been interested in that of old, old recipes and stuff from, from when it was way before us, but you do have to, like, really aggressively try and duplicate some of the ingredients. It's actually not an easy thing to do. Yeah, I'm surprised at, like, like, what's the most interesting to me is the measurements. Yeah. there weren't there was there wasn't a cup or a teaspoon whatever it was it's like so the way it's all measured is like yeah everything is like guesswork and eyeballing and right you know estimations

and then like almost all the meat is cooked like dangling from a rope right and like like you spin it uh-huh over a flame so like it can evenly like sear and roast because there's no such thing as like a there's no broiler or roasting oven or anything like that like it's all fire digital thermometer yeah it's so wild man it's so i make a uh i make a beanless chili every Halloween we always have like a Halloween get together and i've been making a beanless chili for years and it's so good don't even i don't even try and try and and replace beans with anything. It's just pure chopped meat and spices and peppers and stuff.

Oh, I love it. What meat do you use? I used ground beef, like 75% ground beef that comes in kind of like those sausage tubes. Yeah, yeah. Plastic and you just slice it up because it's like three pounds of it and slice it and just throw it into the pot. But they're like these big things. And I can't believe I've been doing it for almost 20 years. now. And I owe every Halloween, because it's the only time I ever buy it, I can't believe the

supermarket is still carrying these just tubes of ground beef. Yeah, it's incredible. That's incredible. I'll write to you for the recipe. You can mail it. Yeah, I'll send it out on the post. So let's talk about your, let's talk about your, your, your, your steps in creating your spot that you have now. Sure. In my mind, I'm a little fuzzy in the story in my head of whether it was a love of creating the bread or was it a love of creating the perfect sandwich? It was sandwiches.

It started with sandwiches. Okay. And it started when I lived in L.A. because I'd get a craving for these East Coast. You know, we grew up, where I grew up there, were called Hoagies, New York Heroes, you know, whatever. It doesn't matter. But I went, oh, it matters.

Yeah. So, yeah, when I lived in L.A., I would get a craving for that type of sandwich. Yeah. And I couldn't really find it. I could find cheese steaks, no problem. There's a lot of Philly transplants and great cheese steak places in L.A. But even those places, for some reason, the cold sandwiches just didn't, it just didn't work for some reason, for me, for me.

So what I would start doing, what I start doing was I'd go to the supermarket and I'd buy as close as I could get to the ingredients that I had in my head that I wanted. And that led to me using baguette rolls primarily because anything that was labeled Hogi roll was too soft and too chewy and wasn't crusty. Right. So that's how that started. And I would make these sandwiches and then, you know, you'd find yourself a few weeks later sort of craving the sandwich you made. So I'd go back and buy it again.

And then the third or fourth time you do that, you write the. recipe down. You're like, oh, this is like good. I should like remember this. Yeah. And then before I knew it, I had two, three, four. And then I started to say, well, you know, what would a full sandwich menu be? And I said, well, maybe eight or 10 sandwiches. So I started trying to create sandwiches that were variations of things I grew up on. And that's how the whole idea started. It was variations on sandwiches I loved. I couldn't get the ingredients that I wanted because of where I was living. And that was a blessing in disguise.

It was a very lucky accident because that led to the sandwiches having an originality. So by the time I moved back here, these were their own thing. And by the time I showed them to Paul Italia, my business partner and told him the idea, he was like, these rest, I like these recipes. Like, these are really cool. Yeah. And they're old school, but they're not common. You know, they're not everyday things you'll find.

Right. And it all came out of that. And then the bread became a derivative of the baguette, which eventually to me became what a perfect hoagie roll was, the way we make it. And then again, all, not again, sorry, but I say again, because I've told the story many times, but not to you. It was all discussed and, and created during the idea for the establishment was created during the pandemic.

So a focus on why is this place not in the city? Why is it not? Why are these places not more readily available in the city? Why is it so hard to find an Italian style sandwich shop like this? Why is it when you do find one, you're not quite happy with all the elements or it's $20 for the sandwich? where it's too big or it's too small. There were all these things that would drive me crazy

where I would just keep thinking back to every time I go to New Jersey or I go to Philly, this is a no-brainer. There's like a fucking one of these every three feet. Right. Yeah. And it used to be in Manhattan.

Like there used to be in New York. It was pretty common. Yeah. But in that time, it went away. Let me take you back though. when you, when you were going around the supermarket trying to put together those early sandwiches, what were the ingredients that you were looking for that you said that you couldn't find? Well, I grew up with a sandwich in NAR.

There's a sandwich in Narsstown, Pennsylvania called the Zep. And the Zep is a Kaiser roll with provolone cheese, something called cooked salami, and tomato and onion. and oregano and olive oil and salt and pepper. It's pretty simple, but it's amazing. So when I was living in LA, I couldn't find cook salami. So I would make it with Genoa salami. And I couldn't find a Kaiser roll that was crusty. So again, I'd use the baguette, right?

So I'd have this thing that was sort of like a zepp, but it was on a long roll. And it didn't have the right salami, but it was still delicious. Then eventually I found the salami in L.A. and I kept making it, but I kept the Genoa on. So then suddenly I had this new version of a thing I grew up with that I really liked. And then to top it off, I start to sprinkle a second cheese.

I start to sprinkle Asiago cheese on top to give it just a little extra kick. So that was the kind of thing that would happen. You know, like we have a sandwich at the shop called the Eastie and it's, it has pepadoos on it, which are chopped. Peppadoos are like the, if you ever see an olive, bar in a supermarket or whatever. Sometimes you'll see these little red peppers that are hollow in oil and they're really bright red.

Right. Those are pepadoos. So I didn't even know what they were called, you know, but like they have a very distinct flavor. They're very sweet. And this sandwich we had, I had pepadoos on it because why? Well, because when I was in L.A., I was looking for sweet cherry peppers. and I couldn't find them.

So I was like, all right, well, I'll use these peppers. And then I was like, you know what? These tastes really good, but I bet they'd taste better against like a sharper cheese. So instead of this provolone, I should use this Asiago. Since I can't find sharp provolone, I'll just use Asiago cheese. That's sort of in the ballpark. And then I had this sandwich that was Asiago cheese, Geno is salami prosciutto and the pepiduse. And I was like, this is really good.

And that was the first one I wrote down. It's so cool that you, and this is a really amazing thing, Joe, that you were putting it together and fearless enough to, and maybe, maybe, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot that goes into it. You obviously are passionate about it and remember, have all these fond memories of it. I would say the first ingredient in your sandwiches is homesickness. But that you were, but that you were discovering. it and going forward and going creatively further than most people, most people learn how to do a thing, they figure out with the base, and then eventually get courageous enough to go out and push it and try to adapt and be, you are doing that all kind of in the infancy, which is very unusual.

Well, it was easy, you know, look, it was easy to do that in the infancy because of there being no stakes, you know. It's kind of like recording a record in your bed, you know, you have an acoustic guitar that you like to play around with and you go and record 12 songs in your basement. That's the easy part. The scary part is putting it out if you're not a career musician or somebody who aspires to be. Right, right. So it was the infancy part for me was the easy part. The hard part and the terrifying part was when it became about like, okay, we got to pull our. our pants up here and do this, like if we're going to do it. And if I didn't have Paul, I never

would have done it. Yeah. So what's that? What's that? So you come back to New York, you've got how many sandwiches pretty much in your, that you've written down at this point? I had like more than enough at that point. I had like 12 or something. And are you, are you thinking, I mean, now that's a lot. So probably at some point during that, you're thinking maybe I'm going end up doing something with this? I didn't. I just thought in my head it was this. One day if I ever,

my ship comes in and I'm a millionaire, I'll open a little window somewhere and pay some guy to make these and it'll be a dream come true. Right. But that's not how life works. And most the time at least, I am,

I did become a millionaire, but I didn't, no, I'm kidding. Just wouldn't spend it on hoagies. No, but, but no, like, so I, I just, I had no real goal. I just, it was just the thing. It was a document on my computer. It's like the screenplay you never finish.

You know, it just sits there and you're like, this is a good idea. Were you, were you sharing it with anybody? Were you making sandwiches for friends at all? The only person I ever made them for was Becky Donahue, who at the time was producing at a TV at a Vic, Vic, God, the place that did America's funniest home videos. That guy's thing. Vindabono. Yeah. Yeah. Vindabono. Yeah. She was producing there. And we were working on a different project for Vendabonos

company. And she caught Wynn that I like to do this. And she was like, let's make some videos. So we did these videos called Hogi's Heroes where we, they were for Facebook. And we would I would make the sandwich and and at that time the idea was, oh, you know, you have all these sandwich ideas. We should make a cooking show where you make the sandwich and give it to the camera person who was Becky. Right. She was the only person I'd ever given them to. We only did two or three of these.

And she was, but she was like, Joe, these are really good. And I was like, oh, thanks, you know, shucks. That's nice. And then. That was it. No, I never, after that, never did. The next time I showed the recipes to anybody was, it was when Paul and I were sitting on the, his roof in, in New York. And we were, we were up there drinking beers. We're watching the marches, actually. The marches were going by. It was right at that time in that, in that, that summer. Yeah. And I told him the idea, like, we were just kind of watching. talking about, you know, sort of waxing on the change and New York is a different place and,

and all these things. And what do you think it'll look like when the door is finally open and, you know, there's so much turmoil. Will we ever get past all that? We were just talking about all that stuff. Yeah. And he said very passively, the guys that are going to survive in the city are the guys that don't abandon ship.

Everybody's jumping ship right now because they think that this place is over. It's not over. the guys that ride it out are the, you know, are the people that are going to last. Right. So, and he just literally goes, so now's the time he ever had an idea. And again, passively, I was like, oh, that's funny, man. I always wanted to open a sandwich shop. And he was like, what do you mean?

And I was like, you know, and I just start telling them the story. I just told you. And he was like, let me see the recipes. What do you have? And I was like, I don't know. I think they're on my phone here. somewhere in my email. And I found them and I showed them to him. And we talked about the rest of the night and he was like, let's start a pop up at the stand comedy club because he owns it.

Right. Co-ons it with his brother. He goes, let's start the pop up like now at the stand. And the next day, we were like buying ingredients at the supermarket to test out sandwiches. And that was how it started. That's amazing. This is just for my own head. Did you have names for the sandwiches when they were on your phone in that list? I did. I named. No, actually, no, no, I'm wrong, Tom. I didn't.

No, I didn't have names. When we started the pop-up idea, he was like, you need to have names for the sandwiches. And I was like, I really don't want to, but I think it's a necessary evil. Why didn't you want to? Yeah, I just, because I felt like it was like, you know what? It was one of those things where I was like, but every sandwich has names for their sandwiches. And then when you start to put together the sandwich up, you're like, like, oh, there's a reason for that.

I need to place an order, sir. Yeah. And you realize quickly it's way too hard for guys that you're trying to teach to be like, that's a number seven. You know what I mean? Right. So I named all of them in like the eight, the original eight. It's called the hard eight.

That menu, which is hanging in our. restaurant now or a bar now that we're expanding on and stuff. The names are on the board. I thought of those names in six minutes. I just went down the list. I was like, this is the one my mom would like. I'll call it the Rosie because their name's Rose.

This is the one my dad would like. That's called the dad. This is a roast beef one. It's called the beefy. That's great. A burst of creativity. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Because I felt like the more I thought about it, I was self-conscious. I definitely felt like if I put any corny, if I put too much thought into a name, it'd be corny. Yeah. Yeah. That's right back to the hacky thing, right? It's back to that thing of like, let's have a little integrity. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, you know. Is there a, is there a, so you've got eight now. I'm sure it's expanded. what is the, and they're all different, you're a roast beef, or you're talking about the Zep, or you're talking about these different things,

but what are, for you, what are the main things that you want to achieve universally within the sandwiches? Is it that you can bite right through it? Is it the bread to the meat? Is it, what are the things that would make you angry if they were wrong?

Ratio is important. I can't, I can't, stand a thin sandwich, but I also can't stand an over stuff sandwich. Uh-huh. You know, I follow a lot of sandwich profiles on Instagram. Yeah. Whether it's shops or just guys that, you know, whatever it is, but I follow a lot of sandwich stuff.

And the thing that I have the biggest issue with, and I say it, you know, seven times out of 10 with videos I'll be watching is, you know, the same, the video starts. I'm like, okay, this looks good. Where are we going? Where are we going? And by the end of it, I go, that sandwich will taste like nothing. They have put so much shit on it that there's no way to distinguish any of those flavors at this point. It's way too much.

So I'm real. I hate that more than I hate a thinly made sandwich because at least in a thinly made sandwich, I can at least taste it. It's just not very fulfilling. Yeah. So those two quantity and ratios are very, very important to me. The construction of the sandwich is very important. Everything, every sandwich we make, everything goes on in the same order.

And there's a reason for that. You know, there's a reason things go on in a certain way. It's to prevent bread from getting soggy. There's a reason the rolls are cut a certain way because it pockets the ingredients in, in a way that when you bite it, you're getting a taste of everything. You know, our head kitchen guy, Dave, his whole thing, and he's brought a ton to the table, but his whole thing when he came on board, he was like, you should be able to hold this with one hand and eat it.

That's the point. He's like a sandwich was made for that reason. It's convenience. He's like, you should be able to be holding your book or whatever it is in the other hand. And, you know, and that's a huge, that's a huge statement for modern day sand. Because you need so many times find myself holding a sandwich with both hands and wondering how I'm going to even take the first bite. Yeah. And like, you know, that sort of thing is fun sometimes, you know.

Like, and sometimes it's a gimmicky thing where it's like, look, we put like a pound of ham in between two grilled cheese sandwiches or whatever. Like sometimes that's like a fun goof, you know? Yeah, yeah. But like we weren't out to do, you know, a man versus food style thing. We were out to do something that would, that was a lifestyle choice for people. Yeah. We wanted. And that's, that's, that's, that mentality went into the bar and the creation of how

the bar was made and everything to. Right. The whole idea here was this is, you know, we have a sign that says welcome home in the bar. It's like, the whole idea is like, you can come here and, you can sit here right for a long time and like this is a spot for you so that's great we want these sandwiches to be things that you eat throughout the week not just the thing you feel like you want once in a while and then after you have it you're like okay I'm good for about two months on that because I feel sick or whatever you know yeah yeah no 100% yeah so so yeah that's that's

but yeah and then the bread obviously Paul Paul was the one to when I said to him when I described to him what we were doing when I was doing with the original sandwiches and why I was using the baguette and what aspect of the baguette reminded me of what I liked about roles when I was growing up. You know, and our roles are not baguettes by any stretch, but there's an inspiration there. He very much was like, I feel like the bread is the star of the show here. If we don't get this bread right, we're in trouble. Right. So that was a three-month process of, yeah.

We were literally going to different. bakeries in the city and getting in supermarkets and wherever we could and getting bread that we thought made sense. Uh-huh. And this guy Fausto, who's a who's a Pizziola from Sicily, who works at the stand and is an amazing baker and everything. Like we would show him the rolls and we'd be like, see what we like about this one. And ultimately what we need is a little bit of this one, a little bit of that. And he kept trying different yeast and flowers and whatever until until it was right. And then one day it was just ripe.

And you're like, that's it, dude. Do not forget this. This is the recipe. Yeah. And that's what it's been. Oh, that's so good. I went to a good sandwich shop in New York. And I've been going there for years.

And I wasn't until just recently that I realized they're scooping out some of the bread. Yeah. Do you scoop? We don't. But scooping was a part of what went into it. I like, I was like, dude, usually, because with the baguettes, I, was scooping it out. Right.

And I would say ultimately, Fausto, we don't want to have to scoop. It should be airy enough on the inside that we don't have to scoop. But you get what I'm. And he just got it. He was like, I know what you mean. Like we figured it out. Like that's so good. That was a very worthwhile painstaking process, you know?

And size of the role went into it because what fits, what doesn't fit. Right. How is it not going to be falling out? How is there not going to be too much bread on either side of, what you're putting into it. Yeah. Yeah. A lot.

Yeah. A lot of thought went in. But we got there. We hit the mark, which I'm very happy about. And now we have new. We have two secret sandwiches right now, meaning like, you can, they're on the board in the, in the shop, but they're not like listed. Uh-huh.

And then we have the original age. That's 10. Then we have four new ones coming out very soon. And then we have some other stuff. We're doing like fried dough now and Brussels. Oh, nice. Nice. Is there a most popular sandwicher? The beefy as the one people love this,

the sandwich called the beefy, which is we make the roast beef, so people really love it. And then we have a sandwich called the local, which is like turkey and then the homemade roast beef. It's white American cheese, mayo, tomato onion, salt and pepper. And then it's got hot cherry peppers on it.

Ooh, nice. Yeah, people love that sandwich. And people are always like, you know, dude, the peppers, man, that's the kick. Like that, that makes it. And I'm like, you know, and it's funny. I'm like, I'm always like, yeah, I know, like, I know. I don't mean that arrogantly, but like, yeah, no, I know, right?

Like, like, I mean it like that. And I've argued with people. I've argued with people and said like hot cherry peppers, not banana peppers. There's a difference. Right. Yeah. Not pickled jalapinos. There's a difference.

Hot cherry peppers. have a specific flavor. Yeah, absolutely. And when somebody goes, there's no difference. I'll literally be like, you're an idiot. Get out of my face. Not in the store. I don't say that, but just in regular life.

That's an anger in your acts. I think I could definitely relate to. Like, that has weight to it. What do you like more, prosciutto or mortadella? Prejuto. What do you like more? Perjuto or salami? Probably salami. Probably. Really? What do you like more? Salami or pepperoni?

Salami, 100%. I like pepperoni, but yeah, not even close there, though. And what kind of salami is the king of salamis? Well, Genoa, I think, is your workhorse, you know, if you're, you know, You know, that's, that's your go to for most, yeah, most sandwich places. But, you know, supersadas, you know, if you'd make it up a charcutary, I mean, supersadas. Mm-hmm. It's pretty unbeatable, I think. But I mean, salami goes in so many directions.

You can get into the Spanish and all that stuff. I like the Italian salamis. There's a lot of guys live and die by dry salami. Right. You know, but I literally, when I was in between getting ready for this, I had, and eaten, and I was like, what should I make really quickly? And I had a loaf of bread that I just baked this morning. And I was like, I don't feel like making a sandwich, but I had you on my mind. And I was like, I did. I was like, I got to, just, I'm looking around. And there was, I had bought

salami a while ago. It was still in its package. And there was a little zip block of this great aged Gouda that I had, that I hadn't used in a while. I've been on the road. And I was like, I'm going to make an omelet and I'm going to shave the Gouda into it and I'm going to just slice the salami. Just have it on the side. And I was like, Joe would, Joe would respect this. And then I made it. And my buddy, Anthony, has this product called Super Salt, which is like, it's almost like an herb to province with salt, kind of a mixture.

And I put that on it. And then I was sitting out back, eating it. And the thing that really blew me away was it was a dry. age salami, but it was actually juicy. Like it actually had more juice than you normally get from a salami. Yeah. And that was, yeah, that was a special little treat. It sounds amazing.

And it's inspired because I knew I was talking to you. I'm glad him can make a difference. Salami's a, this is a funny sentence, but it's true. So it's a fascinating meat. I mean, it really, you know. It's an elevated because, you know, people really, it's sort of like the classy version of a hot dog or something like that. It is, it is that sort of processed meat. But it makes its way into, you know, the high society platters and stuff, you know.

It ain't no boiled hot dog. Yeah. Even sausage doesn't really get, you know, that high up, you know. And like sausage gets a bad rep. but salami it's hard to find somebody say anything bad about it you know when i was a kid i ate my every single day of my childhood was uh salami and cheese with mustard on probably back then white bread that's amazing yeah they used to call me Tommy salami oh man you should please name your next special that not Tommy salami it should be called they used to call

me Tommy salami. They used to call me Tommy salami. That's such a funny sentence. It really is. But I still love it to this day. I'll give you a sandwich that you can make in two seconds flat and you'll be thrilled. Okay. Get a loaf of white bread.

And I mean like wonder bread or, you know, nothing fancy, like white bread. Yeah. And get some. very thinly sliced Genoa salami. And maybe even pepperoni also sliced thin. But even if you do it with just the Genoa, literally put that on the white bread. That's it.

And it's, right. I can't even explain why it's, it's good in the way like a jelly donut is good. We're like, I don't understand. It's just two things. Right.

Why do they love each other so much? Yeah. It's so good. Yeah. The sponginess of the white bread. meeting like the oiliness of the salami and then the tang of the genoa and it actually sticks to the roof of your mouth just for a second yeah yeah that exact experience okay yeah so you've been there i mean oh i've been there baby are you i have a question for you are

you are you only making sourdough bread or or have you now expanded into other types of bread um i've expanded a little bit i haven't been that adventurous actually i mean sourdough is the base you know it's it's definitely there's so many places much like salami there's many branches that you can go off of this basic sourdough you know what i mean you start manipulating the flowers you add a little rye flour you added wheat to it you right you know there's all these different avenues and then how long you ferment it and it's like i've only been using this basis of sourdough bread for i don't know how many years now, six, eight years. And it's still like, I really like it because it's very much like stand-up.

Like you get really good at it. You know what you're doing, but you really don't know anything. And you can fall on your ass at any minute. The only other version, I've messed with baguettes and I've messed with halla. And I'm trying to get, I'm trying to really improve the, the halla. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's interesting.

That seems like a very, the, the, the, Hala seems complicated. It's not that complicated. It's, the braiding is complicated. That can be complicated. The hard part is when you don't grow up with a food and you're giving it to people who did, you know, like I grew up in a Christian household, so Hala wasn't really around. And then I'll make Hala and bring it to my Jewish friends who, their grandmother, could make it blindfolded and they've just they have their it's almost like when people try and tell me about like a tomato sauce and it's like it could be totally accurate it could be totally

great but it's just a little off from the way my grandmother used to make it yeah something you can't really you can't really replicate no that's so interesting I like what you said about how you can fall on your ass at any minute I mean I feel like that's the definition mm-hmm of food concocting, whether it's cooking or just assembling or whatever, it could be, you know, you're just in a little too much of a hurry one day or you're a little distracted and you just don't, you know, hit something exactly right or you have to use a different pan and it's just, crazy. But you don't have that little things.

You don't have that freedom now that you have a shop and people are coming in to get the beefy. they want the beefy. Yeah. Well, luckily, you know, it's a pretty, it's a fairly uniform thing. You know what I mean?

So it's like, you know, it's, I don't want to say, I don't want to make it sound like it's subway or something. But, you know, like we prep,

we prep things in a certain way. The things we buy are bought from the same distributor, the same brands. Right. You know, as long as we don't have some kind of sideways hiccup with the bread. Right. Right.

because when you're baking that every morning, that's really the biggest variable. But we know, no, no, no, no, no, no problems yet. So, you know, how much bread do you bake each day? Well, we do like Saturday and Friday, Friday and Saturday, we do a hundred and twenty rolls, I think it is. And we usually sell out. Right. Uh, before business is over, which is nice.

And that's when the sandwiches stop when the bread is done. Yeah, because you can't. You know, you can't just go bake more bread. You know what I mean? Like we don't, I mean, I guess in some circumstances you could, but we don't have that kind of operation set up. Yeah. And then on a on the slower days, you know, the lighter days rather,

like it's probably 80 to 90 rolls, you know, something like that. So that number luckily keeps growing. You know, we're getting to a point now where we're probably going to have to up the number of rolls on Friday and Saturday again, which is amazing. because, you know, we're five months in, six, almost six months, whatever it is. That number started at 30. Wow. You know, so like...

That's amazing. Yes, because it was just like, let's see if we can sell 30 rolls today. Like, who knows, you know, like, or sandwiches rather. So it keeps going up. And I know it's a, I know it's purely economics and figuring out the thing, but there is something very cool about running out. There's something, there was this bread baker. here in L.A., Bubb and grandmas, I used to go snag their bread at these farmers markets,

and, like, there was an urgency. I had to get there and make sure that I got it, because I know they're going to sell out, and then what's going to be left by the time you get there written on the cardboard, and there's something cool to that because it shows maybe that other people want it just as bad, so they are hustling to get it, and it makes it seem more precious. Yeah, and it's nice. There's a purity to that that I enjoy because, you know, we live in this culture of, you know, fake it till you make it and hashtag best life and all that stupid crap, you know, like, and everybody is is out there all the time trying to look like they're living like the Kardashians. But, you know, it's a really nice pure thing to be like, oh, there's a demand building because we run out of bread. Yes.

And it's like, we. it's not a thing. It's not a gimmick. It's not anything. It's like, no, man. Like, we're sorry that we ran out. We wish we didn't. But it's just the way it goes so we can keep giving you the best possible product we can give you.

Yeah. And we're adjusting and adapting as we grow. That's the coolest. It's so great. Thanks, buddy. I'm going to be heading to New York shortly. And, you know, some people go to the Statue of Liberty or want to catch a Broadway show or they. I have one stop in mind.

Dude, I can't wait, man. Keep me posted, please. I love to see you too. Yeah, for sure. Been a while. Yeah, it has been a while. But I would love to have you back on because we've only just scratched the surface in this first hour. Oh, Tom, anytime, man.

I love talking to you. Absolutely anytime. All right, buddy. You're the best. Thanks, Tom. I'll talk to you later, buddy. All right. Oh, can I plug something?

Yes, please. Sorry. I'm shooting my new album. hour, my new hour special independently I'm shooting it in Houston next month. Okay. I'd love to plug it. Houston, I'll be at the Come and Take It Festival. We're shooting on Thursday, April 19th and Sunday, April 22nd.

So two shows. And how do they get tickets for that? I have tickets available through my website at joe de Rosa info.com. Great. And the festival has sites on their tickets available on their site to come and take it festival. And then also in between those two days, I'm going to Austin to do four shows. We're not taping those, but I'll be at the creaking cave on the 20th and 21st of April.

So anyway, come on out, people, please. Awesome. And can people see anything from the shop on the website? Is it on there, too? The shop has its own website. It's Joey Roses, NYC.com. Everything is there that you need. Awesome.

You're the best. Thanks, buddy. I'll see you real soon. All right, that's it. That's the big show. I told you it was a good one. How great is Joe? If you're in New York,

check it out. You can order online. Just go on his Instagram, go on Joeyroses, NYC.com, and fantasize and plan your little trip to New York City, or if you're in New York, go down and check it out. You can get a drink and hang. It's a lot of comedians rolling through there as well. Thank you to Joe DeRosa. Thank you to all of you for listening, and I'll see you next time.