Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 103 - Rainn Wilson

Episode Date: May 3, 2022

The great Rainn Wilson drops off some avocado, some great stories and takes home some bread. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. Thank you so much for being here. I wish you were here in person because the bread I made today is exceptional. But it'll just have to go to Rain Wilson. That's right, the great actor, Rain Wilson, Dwight from the office, and a zillion other things. Star Trek, movies, television shows, even Gargamel.

He is a great guy. I've known him for a long time. I can't wait to dive in with Rain. He's such a good soul and a great artist and a good friend. And he's just going to have to eat the special bread. I would like to thank the good people at BetterHelp. Better Help. Thank you to our sponsor, BetterHelp. They're customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist. Listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Papa, P-A-P-A.

That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com. slash Papa, a great service that gives you a helping hand in this difficult and complicated life. So I'm very excited to come home off the road. I've been running like crazy. I've been doing a ton of shows everywhere. I think for like American Airlines, you need like 250,000 miles for your elite status for the year. And here we are in the beginning of May and I'm like 2,000 miles away. So that shows you how much time I've been spending in the air moving around. The shows have been amazing and the bread profile is hilarious. I was on an American Airlines flight. The flight attendant and came up to me and asked me, was the bread okay? Just want to make sure, because I know that you know

your way around bread. I was in Long Island and Jim Serpico, he who started that bread company side hustle. I don't know if you remember that episode, about a year ago probably. He came with all of his bread and brought it to me. Then I flew off to San Francisco. This is all in the last week. then went off to San Francisco for one night, not even a night. I went in, did the gig, and flew home to New York the same day. And as soon as I landed there, I went over to go do the gig, and I was presented with more bread from the Cupertino area, from people who know that we love bread over there.

So the bread thing has spread, and the roots are deep, and I have to say, what could be better? What could be better than just getting bread all along the way of your travels? Most of it I was not suspicious of. I'm not going to eat everything that's given to me. I will take a bite probably of most things, unless it's really sketch or anonymous. But for the most part,

I can feel that the love for this podcast and the love of sitting down and entertaining our guests has really taken hold. For that, I thank all of you. And we are working up some way to get this ability for you to be able to partake and break bread with us. So stand by for that. Today, I want to jump right in because this is going to be a big, healthy serving of Rain Wilson. Rain and I became friends very early.

Before the office, he did a movie with Rob Zon. the house of a thousand corpses and I had a mutual friend in that production, Jen Jostin, and that's where our first introduction happened. I'm going to hold off on the rest of that story for when I talk to Rain because it's very interesting. It was right on the edge of going into the office and it's a very interesting story that you'll want to hear. The great thing about Rain, and I will reiterate this when I'm talking to him, When you look at his resume, he had a bunch of stuff before the office. Then he does the office, of course, for this big run with such an iconic character.

And then a ton of stuff after. Like, this is not someone who was pigeonholed and ended up just doing one or two things. And I really believe it's because at his core, he is a thoughtful actor who is always exploring and digging deeper and enjoying the ride and I think that creates a desire in directors and producers of including him in these productions because you're not just getting that guy from that thing, you're getting Rain Wilson. So now enjoy the conversation with Rain Wilson. This is crazy because there's no one here. It's just you and me in this soundstage.

Yeah, it's pretty magical. And I baked you this bread. It was on the road. So I had to bake it and then freeze it before it was completely done. And then flew in last night and then took it out. And you heated it up or something? Heated it for like 200 for like a little bit more. And now you're good to go.

Wow. Get a nice serrated knife and some butter and enjoy. And you said that it really just you don't. You used to, it's Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. You probably tried Breaking Bread and then had users, listeners. And you like, fuck you. Don't eat on the microphone. Stop chewing.

Yeah, they really, they really hate it, don't they? They do hate it, which I don't understand. I like when I hear people chewing. Oh, no. There you go. How's that flavor? That is really... Rain just took a big bite right out of the center of the...

You're the first one to do that, by the way. It's very good. It should be. Yeah. It's nutty and weedy and... Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because I haven't seen you. I've seen you. I taste the love. Yeah, good. Good. Um, I just want to, I just wanted to wake people up. And I want to get a bunch of nasty comments. And that's not bad chewing. That bread is actually okay to chew, I guess, on me. It's like when you get some crunchy. That's when people really go nuts. It's moist. It's delicious. It's so delicious. It's yeasty. It's really good. Give it to your family. Make some, make some,

Toast. Like a little bit of char, but I don't mean that in a derogatory bread way. No, I try and get that. I try and get almost overcooked for the outside. And the good thing about this bread, it kind of, it starts to, the sugar start to break down on its own. Okay. And it'll even, it'll improve like over the next day. I should make it out for the next month then.

Yeah. It depends how your family eats. Depends what they do. See that? Now my chewing is done. So now we can start the podcast. Yeah, and you're satisfied. Yeah, deeply satisfied.

Thank you for the bread. Good. I brought you avocados from my avocado trees. Those look like the perfect size because my daughter's always cutting open the big avocados and then leaving half. Have you seen the half avocado savor things they sell on Amazon? No. It's the most incredible invention ever. It's a little plastic thing and you put your avocado half with the big seed poking out in there.

And it's a little, it's like a bra strap. that goes over the back and you put it in the fridge and it stores it perfectly. Really? What's it made out of? It's just a hard plastic thing, but the avocado acts like its own a sealer. Right, right, right. And it's absolutely incredible. What will they think of next? How great that you're living in a place with an avocado tree. We have a lot of trees. We have macadamia trees. Persimmons, which I don't care for so much. Yeah. What are the parsimins? Those are like the they're red and they make your mouth go we have a lot of lemons and oranges

tangerines blood oranges right oh wow that sounds beautiful yeah it's it's really cool it's such a cool thing looking at your career because and I want to there's all the different places there's no I know but no but it was because of coming from New Jersey

coming from New Jersey and living amongst lemon trees and things I still have this, and I know you're Seattle, but I still have this like, I can't believe we have sunshine and palm trees. I still can't get over it as a grown man. But when I was looking at just your, at your arc, you had this, and the reason I'm bringing you back to New York with me, with your early days of thinking theater and like starting off and just starting off acting and all that kind of stuff. And then coming out here, this is, I have to explain my giant segue, but that's what I'm doing.

What's so cool, and I actually said in the intro before you got here, was there is no question that even though you had this super iconic role that you've worked so much after, because you came into this very thoughtful, very creative, and you are kind of on this, you seem, from what I know, know of you, and we never talked about what's in your head for all this, but you seem very thoughtful and motivated by the things, by the good things. And I think that is why, unlike people that do have iconic roles, you just keep cranking and evolving. And you are so different from Dwight, from the time that's wrapped up, it's congratulations and you should be living with avocado

trees and persimimms, even though you don't like them. Percyminums. But am I right? That's so kind. Was that the way you kind of look at your art? Well, I mean, there's a lot to address there. That's very kind. Thank you so much for the

compliments. But I will say that, you know, at risk of sounding pretentious, I come from the theater. Tom. But when you truly, when you go to acting school in New York City in the theater, you're trained to transform into characters. It's like, oh, you're going to do a Noel Coward Fars tonight or you're going to play a villain and a Shakespeare play next month. And then you're going to play American realism and then you're going to do a Kabuki Mask experimental

theater piece. And your job as the actor is to transform into the various characters that you play. Right. Right. And, And they're based on you and they're grounded in who you are, but you're not just playing yourself all the time. Like Jerry Seinfeld plays himself. God bless him. He's great at it and he should because coming from the stand-up world. But it's just a very different.

So I think the reason I'm saying all this is that you're right in that I played dozens and dozens of roles in the theater before I did any TV or film. And then I started doing TV and film and I played. a good dozen or a dozen and a half rolls before I got Dwight. And I hope that the roles are different enough

that my transformation from Rain Wilson into the character suits what is needed from that character. It might sound obvious to some listeners, but to a lot of people

they're just flabbergasted when they meet me and they're like, you're not Dwight. You're not like him. And it's like, well, in some ways I'm like, like him and a ton of ways I'm not. Yeah. With all of the characters.

Right. And then I've played a good dozen and a half, couple dozen characters since Dwight that I hope are different. Right. Drawn on me, et cetera. So, yeah. What was the one that you did? It was, um, it was kind of a, um, it was kind of a children's movie,

like adventure movie and you. The last mimsy. Yes, the last mimsy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I knew just from seeing that because my kids were that, like, it was prime time for them to catch that film. And it was just like, oh, yeah, he's, he's going to work forever.

Like, coming off of that and it was like, oh, yeah, look, he's completely different. Because there are a lot of people that end up with those great roles that can't shake it off or can't go further. Well, it's a struggle. I won't know why. It's a struggle. In terms of casting, I think there's still, you know, by, you know, by. far the vast majority of people kind of making art and telling stories in Hollywood when they think rain wilson they think dwight shrewd they go into a target store and they see me on tea towels

and mugs and key chains and i'm really relegated to that character like oh no we'll get someone else he's um so it's it's been kind of a chore to kind of like try and challenge people who are like yeah he's a transformational actor and guess what he can play other characters he can play a villain and you can play a serious dude and you can play someone who's funny in an altogether different way than Dwight. Right, right. So it's, it is a challenge, but at the same time, I've had some great opportunities and holes all along.

So, um, do you like Dwight? Listen, do you, do you like Dwight? I do. I do very much like Dwight. That's good. You enjoy Dwight. I absolutely enjoy Dwight. That's good. And my son, I like hearing that.

My son is 17 and he only got into the office when he was about 16. And he put it off for a long time. Yeah. And I always used to kind of give him shit and be like, why don't you watch the office? All your friends watch the office. And he's like, finally he broke down. He's like, dad, I want you to be my dad. I don't want you to be Dwight.

And that was very sweet. That is very sweet. Very sweet. So occasionally he'll be watching an episode and I'll come in and see some parts of it. I'm like, oh, that's good. It's good. It's so weird and funny and warped and it's true at the same time. I'm very proud of the role and what we all did with that show.

So good. Can we talk for a minute just for any listeners who hasn't heard me tell this story of how I almost ruined your career? Yeah. Please tell them the story. I almost ruined your career. So you almost ruined Steve's. And almost ruined Steve's. And yet not really.

Well, it could have. Okay. But it was, yeah. So we became familiar with each other through Rob Zombie and House of a Thousand Corpses and Jen Jostin. And that's where we kind of were all mutual friends. And when I was started casting this pilot that they came and got me off of Conan and they're like, do you have an idea for TV?

I'm like, yeah, kind of. And I had this role. And I asked Rain to come in. to read for it. Me and Greg Malins were making the show. And we loved you so much. And Jen's like, you've got to go. You've got to check out Rain.

And it was like, oh, that finally we found the guy that can play this character. And we brought you in to test for network, which is the final round. And it didn't go. It didn't get it. And then we begged them and fought with them to bring you back a second time. Do you remember that? Yep, I do. And we brought you back a second time.

Andy Ackerman was directing. Right, right. And for whatever reason, whoever was making the decisions didn't go for it. At the same time, so we were crestfallen, we're just like, I can't believe we don't get to use rain. And then a new president comes into the company. And after we shot the pilot, we shot the pilot without you. And they're starting to make the office in the background. And they came to us and said, before the office,

had launched or was even put together. We have this guy in a deal, Steve Correll. We want the new president of the network, Kevin Riley came in and said, we saw your pilot. We had already shot it. We like it. He hated it. And he's like, but what if we put Steve Carell in it?

We have a deal with him. He's funny. He'll make your show. And we were like, Steve's the greatest guy in the world. Yeah, yeah. Let's put Steve in it. And we put Steve Carell. All of a sudden, he was like my boss.

It was like he was doing the. office. It was like he was auditioning for the office on our show. But it was much broader. I remember him on that show. Much broader. Yeah. Do you have an accent on the show or something? Was he like, I remember him doing some very like. Yeah. I don't remember. I don't remember. And he, so I tried to get you and then they put Steve on us, but we were like, okay, let's take Steve because he's amazing. And the head of the network just did not like our show. And they start putting together the office and behind the scenes they're taking Steve and they're going to put him in the office. And they saw him running our show as the boss, which I didn't even want.

I was all of a sudden I was working in an office which wasn't what our show was about at all. But we were just trying to keep it afloat and make this new president happy. And while we were filming, they gave Steve the lead in the office and we're like, huh. What does that mean for us? What does that mean for our show? And it, you know, it all worked out just fine, but it was like, it really is kind of funny that I wanted you so badly. And then we had Steve and then you guys went off into outer space. Yeah, yeah.

And thank God because it's such a beloved show by myself. And the culture, it's like that if you ever feel like things are happening for a reason, it's like we all needed that show. We all really wanted that show. We were figuring shit out. This is very generous of you, Tom. You could be very jaded and bitter about it. Oh, those fuckers. Yeah.

Stole Steve from a... Yeah. No, even when it was happening, I was like... I remember, I did not audition very well for your show. I was nervous. And I couldn't... It took me the longest time. It was a multi-camera sitcom.

Right. And I was not very... I didn't understand how to do that. Right. Like, if we're having this conversation right now... Yeah. There's an audience watching. watching. Yeah, and you're leaning into it. You kind of want to bring it up for the audience,

but then you lose sight of like the scene here. It's a weird style, you know? Yeah, for sure. I was more suited to the office where it's like we forget the cameras are there and we're just kind of in in the scene. So I struggled with the, with the, also the telling of jokes. And I love multi-camera sitcom. So it was really fun for me because the last couple years I this recurring character on mom with Alice and Janney. And that was so I got to kind of like work on what it's like doing it. How did you like it? It was great.

Yeah. Yeah. It took some getting used to. You know, real audience laughing and trying to get to get through a whole scene. Yeah. Because you're performing the scene, like in the theater for an audience. Yeah. Yeah.

It's tricky. Yeah. If I didn't have stand up, I would have, it would have been a different. ending to the story. You know what I mean? Like it would have been like, I would have cared. You just went back out on the road.

I knew it was going to be okay. Like literally a month after the show was done, you know, it dragged on for a couple of years through the summer and all this kind of stuff. But literally a month after I was walking back into the same building to go do a spot to do stand up on the Tonight Show.

And I was like, oh, I have control over this part of the universe. Yeah. I can always have this and do this kind of a thing. And to be frank, like, I wasn't planning on doing, they came and got me off of a Conan set. I wasn't, I was kind of naive. I was like, oh, it'll happen a bunch of times. You know what I mean?

Like, I wasn't, it was just kind of, I was like a little leaf on a river. There was an interesting time where kind of, I don't mean to denigrate you in any way, but they would kind of like, with the success of Seinfeld, and home improvement and everyone loves remain. And Roseanne, like, they were like, let's find that next stand-up. Yeah. All in the stand-ups. It was a totally.

I did so many pilots as like the second fiddle. Yeah. To the stand-up comic. Right. And tested for so many pilots. Yeah. And then that all kind of fell apart shortly there after around 2006 or something. They kind of stopped doing that.

Yeah. It's pretty rare that they do it nowadays. And back to the multi-camera thing. it was like that was suited for a stand-up to know the audience and play that. They could lean into that. And once that genre started to go away, I mean, mom and everything that he's doing over there that Chuck's doing, like, that's like the only spot, really, that's successfully doing it anymore, which is crazy, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. Like, we all grew up on that. Yeah. I mean, I grew up all in the family and Bob Newhart and cheers and all this. It was it was what America did. We sat down at night and watched those multi-camera sitcom. I saw Gilligan's Island. I was in a hotel and Gilligan's Island was on.

I was like, this is so funny to watch. And I mean, that's not shot in front of an audience. Yeah. But with a laugh track. Right. So you're like in the, on the island. And there's these laughs. People laughing.

Yeah. Yeah. But that was with that, I think that was part of the magic of your show. and modern family at the same time. You had people steering the ship, and I'm sure it's a joint effort by the actors and everybody. Like, you're trusting each other that all this stuff is funny because there's no audience. And other people have tried to pull it off and failed. A lot of them have failed because they don't really know what's funny.

You guys knew what funny was. Like, did you feel that when you were making it? Were you playing it? it's Yeah. You know, what the office did is it, so one of the problems

with multi-camera sitcoms is there's only a couple ways to get a laugh, right? There's a joke, which is usually a hard joke, or like a big, big piece of physical comedy. That's kind of has,

that needs a setup. And those are the two ways that you get laughs. But on the office, there's a number of ways to get a laugh. Right. So that was very, right.

It was like the awkward pause gets a laugh. The look to the camera can get a laugh. You know, the joke can get a laugh, but the kind of like the awkward, general awkwardness of office life. Yeah. So there were, there was, it was a bigger sandbox to play in. And I remember when Greg Daniels was creating the show and I sat down with him, he said, you know, I see comedy as like a steamship. you know, going across the North Atlantic. Like, I just want to take it one or two degrees in the right direction.

You can't steer a steamship like this. Right. Comedy's not working very well right now. Uh-huh. I want to just steer at one or two degrees in the right direction. I really think he did that. As the whole genre, you mean? Just television comedy.

Wow. Interesting. And I think the office did that. Yes. It certainly influenced modern family, but even like what we do in the shadows. Yeah. But even like baskets and some of the honor shows out there. Yeah. He achieved what he set out to do.

He really did. Yeah. What a cool thing. So that ride was how long? Nine years, nine and a half years. Nine and a half. It's so funny. All those, Seinfeld was nine.

A lot of them go that way. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. A big thank you to our friends at Better Help. Look, this, this, uh, this, uh, This world, as I said, is complicated. Everybody, especially right now, I can tell you just traveling around and having people come up after my shows, and people are so grateful to be getting out of the house and having some laughs and trying to feel normal.

And these are people who you could tell just from their backstories, they weren't really struggling. I mean, some were to bigger degrees, but I think all of us have been challenged. All of us over the last two years had your regular life with all of it. stresses and all of its complications, and you just had this tsunami of anxiety thrown on top of all of us. And it's not just the pandemic, it's also the inflation and it's also the world news. It's the crime. There's a lot of things playing around in the background of our everyday life, which is already complicated and annoying, just the day-to-day stuff. And then you have this background of very big events happening all the time, sometimes you just need to be able to reach

out and talk to someone beyond your friends and family, just someone who's just there, just for the one-sided aspect, not completely one-sided, but when you're with a friend, you got to have a little back and forth with a therapist, you can actually just get your stuff out and get some great advice, and the people at better help have made it very easy. Customized online that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy. So give it a try and see if online therapy can help lower your stress.

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Breaking Bread listeners get 10% off first month at betterhelp.com slash Papa. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P-T-E-L-P-C-L-P-C-L-P-P-A. They have a resource for you that makes it very easy to come in, line up for the person you want to talk to, and just get it all out and feel better. BetterHelp.com. Do you, when you were back to New York, if we can just go back there for a second, when you were starting and like I'm going for theater, you, were you studying or were you just going for it? Yeah, I studied. I went to NYU to their acting program and I really just love the theater and I really,

I thought that, you know, my best scenario for me was like, oh, I'll join a theater company. Like the arena stage in Washington, D.C. or Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis. Yeah. And I'll get a yearly paycheck. I'll make 70 grand a year. as an actor. Maybe I'll do some voiceovers or an odd commercial here or there,

but that was really what I thought my life was. That's the life I pursued for a long time. And I remember it's a funny story. You know the actor at Jeffrey Wright? So he's in Westworld and he's been a ton of stuff. We did a theater tour together. And we got back after like six months on the road.

It's super long time. Off the bus. pulling our luggage off. We went into the offices of the theater company, got our mail, right? Kind of getting that mail that stacks up. And I was like, I kind of, I looked at my bank statement.

I was like, oh, I was hoping to have saved twice the amount that I saved. I had like two grand in the bank. And I was like, oh, shit. And Jeffrey had done three days on a Harrison Ford movie, like the year before or something. We got in, we're getting our mail. And he opened, and he started hooting

and hollering. He's like, whoa, my God, yeah, this is fucking awesome. And he had a residual check from his three days on the Harrison Ford for him for like $5,000. And I looked at the chat and my jaw dropped and I, and that was in my head and I was like, okay. Yeah. Okay. No, no, no, no. This, I need to do TV and film. If I ever want to own a house, if I ever want to have student loans. And that was, that's when it really, the penny dropped. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's so hard. That's why I love watching the Tony Awards more than anything else.

They're so, you have to love the theater if you're going to be in that world. And it means when they win, their speeches, like you'll get won out of the Oscars or the Emmys that's like heartfelt from the night. Those, it's just like the love for what they're doing. And we all know how we're sacrificing to do. But it's so what about going back? What about, have you gone back? I haven't gone back to New York. I did a play at the Geffen about five years ago.

And then about three years ago, I did a play at Steppenwolf in Chicago. Oh, nice. Which was great. And yeah, one of my plans is, you know, my son graduates from high school and I'll have a little more free time. Yeah. And go to New York and do a play, definitely a couple plays. Yeah. It was pretty cool.

I was reading in the Times the other day about there's like three comedy, three dark comedies that are on Broadway right now. And it was like, oh, maybe this is like, because for a while it was just SpongeBob and Lion King. Right. It was like, and now they have like these smart comedies coming out. And it was like, maybe this pause will be good for the theater. Like to bring that kind of stuff. Unless you want to do SpongeBob, I don't mean to cast you.

I would like, what's his friend, the Starfish? I don't know. Maybe there's a role for me. Yeah. If you're watching producers of SpongeBob. You would be a good SpongeBob. Yeah, but once it went that and then like Beetlejuice, it just got a little. Right.

And there's so many adaptations of movies and entered into musicals. Uh-huh. Not so interested in that, but. Yeah. You know. Are you still religious? I am, yeah. You are.

Mm-hmm. And it's pronounced Bahai. Bahai, yeah. Bahai. It's a comedy killer, Tom. I don't mind killing comedy. you're in the middle of your podcast we're going to kill

I almost killed you I almost killed your career I could kill this podcast right now I am fearless I would have been so fine I would have done the Tom Papa show if it wasn't the office I would have done something else

I would have had a fine career but I would not have been Dwight Shrewd no I know which is come on come on Baha'i do you mind if we talk about Baha'i sure yeah we can talk about Baha'i okay good

I don't know a lot about But what I do know, it's kind of like a Middle Eastern Unitarian, where you're kind of open to everybody. That's perfect. Is that right? I've never heard that before, but Middle Eastern Unitarian is it kind of close? Yeah. It's kind of perfect.

Yeah. So when, so if they're embracing Jesus and Muhammad and whatever other religious stories and things, so when did it start? It had... It started in the 19th century, mid-1800s in Iran. And the founder of it, who was a spiritual teacher, who went by the title, Bahá'u'llah, whose name means the glory of God. Bahá'u'llah was...

We're not very popular in the Muslim world for professing that he had new messages from God, that he had a spiritual plan for human beings. that included like the equality of women and men, the harmony of science and religion, the elimination of racial prejudice. Right. These were not popular concepts at the time. And so he spent his whole life being tortured,

banished, imprisoned, etc. So that's mid-1800s. Mid-1800s. That's when it started, yeah. And is he considered like a prophet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Baha'is believe there's one God and that this God educates humanity spiritually by sending down divine teachers every 500 or 1,000 years or so.

Uh-huh. You know, like Abraham and Krishna and Moses and the Buddha and Jesus, Muhammad. And Baha'is believe that now Baha'u'llah is the most recent of these teachers. Right. But they all are teaching essentially the same faith. Right. When you boil it down. Now, you can look at differences.

There's a lot of different differences because they came at different places in different times with different needs of the people in the area. Sure. But there are universals that run through every religious practice that kind of show that they're from one divine source. I like this. So as a Baha'i, we read the Bible.

Uh-huh. We revere Jesus. We read the Quran. We read the Buddha. Right. We pray and meditate using all the words. religions. Right, right. Yeah, because the, the Joseph Campbell, like the study of, of myth and religion, and they, the most striking thing, which the cynical, the cynical take on it is,

all these religions, they all are playing off the same stories. They're all the same stuff, which means that there's nothing to any of them. What you're describing is the opposite. Yes, they are all similar, but we're all, because we're all universal. going towards the same truth, trying to figure out whatever this thing is. Yeah. Yeah. If God wants humanity to mature spiritually, which is its plan, his plan, her plan, the, this is how God has chosen to do that by sending these spiritual teachers down.

Right. And let's look at the world right now. What does humanity need more than anything else? it's spiritual maturity. We need to grow up spiritually. Materially, we're growing up. You know, we have our, you know, I have my phone that I can call a cab or listen to any song that's ever been created. Yeah.

You know, technologically, we're maturing. Yeah. But spiritually, on every level, look at what's happening with, you know, you know, the partisanship in America, the war in the Ukraine, racism. so many difficult issues. Yeah. Require consultation and community and connection. Right. And not division and war and selfishness.

Right. It's a, that is a troubling spot where we are locally, like in this country, is that we're, it's like we're almost like we're progressing, but by progressing, we're tearing down. every single institution that we had. So people aren't coming, going to church. People aren't, people don't have, they're not taking care of that part of their life that people didn't really, you know, destroy their own religions because they just

intellect was telling them that it probably had holes in it. You still just went to church, just kind of like what you did. But like, we don't have those structures anymore. And it feels, I think that that is adding to this feeling. of everyone being so adrift. Yeah. So adrift at a time. This is a kind of a strange thing I was reading about what Biden has up, what Biden's up

against. He has the energy crisis from the 70s. He has the Cold War from the 50s. Oh, yeah. He's got inflation. Inflation from the 70. He's got all of the big ones from the last decades all at once. And a crime from the 70s.

Sure. Not to mention a global pandemic. too. Yeah, the global pandemic. From the 1910s, 20s,

whenever it's happening at all at the same time. It's like, God, and so as we're all going through that and trying to figure out,

like, how are we going to be okay? Where's our faith? Where's something to hang on to? It's like, you know, religion for all of its flaws

is valuable. Well, I love hearing you say that because I'm writing a book about this right now. Um, it's, uh, called soul boom. Uh, why we need a spiritual revolution.

Uh, it has a little humor in it, but it is really 90% pretty serious. And it's about exactly this topic. Uh, why we need a spiritual revolution. And, um, listen, I completely understand why people have left organized religion in droves. Like there's been so much corruption and judgment and look at what happened in the Catholic Church and there's hypocrisy and so I get it and a lot of people even hearing this probably right now are just recoiling because they're like fuck that I don't want to be a part of any religion right look at all the hate it's brought to the world and all the damage it's done

and etc so I completely empathize and understand with that but it's kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater a little bit yeah so what a what does a religious practice give you both on a personal level and on a societal level. A religious practice gives me personally greater peace, calm, kind of like peace with my anxiety, which is pretty high. Yeah. It also gives me focus toward, you know, stuff that isn't just about satisfying me, me, me all the time, like service to others and helping folks and in the media telling positive stories. And, um, and in the media, telling positive stories. who are attempting to. And on a societal level, you know, it gives you community,

gives kind of a commonality of purpose. Even, I dare I say it, I hate to say that use these words, but morality, but even a shared sense of ethics and morality that are really going down the drain right now. We see in politics, like people are doing and saying things to each other that, you know, in the 1970s, people would be like, you can't do that. People don't do that. You don't call each other names on the floor of,

Congress and you don't swear. Yeah, you don't swear at people and, you know, you don't backstab in that way. And it's not like politics was this magical fairyland of trust and love back in the day. But there was certain proprietary kind of decorum. Decorum. Yeah. So religion, for lack of a better word, a faith, a faith community, a devotional, a discipline. that involves building community, you know, it met a lot of our needs and meets them a lot of

our needs as human beings on the planet. Yeah, absolutely. It really, I've been thinking lately that we're living in a time where we're eliminating all boundaries. There's no boundaries. There's no boundaries in what you say, how you act, what you do. And it's like, it's not great. It's not great. And some of it, you can self-impose boundaries on you. Like, we don't swear around the house, you know. We don't, we have all these little things that we do, like we have these boundaries and stuff, but it's, it's kind of, it, it, it, my grandmother, my little Nana was Catholic. And she just bustle along, you know, World War II and the Depression and we went through all of it and both grandmothers and had, just went to church.

They went to church. And when there were stories of the horrible things that the Catholic Church was doing, it was like, oh boy, yeah, I know, but I'm going to church. Like, she just kept going to church. church. You know what I mean? And I remember sitting with my sister at a baptism and she's like, I got to get out of here. We were both raised that way. And she's like, I get to get it. I'm like, just take the good parts. Just take the good part. She goes, do you hear what they're saying right now about this? I don't know. It was very patriarchal and all that kind of stuff. And I was like, no, I don't really

hear what they're saying right now. I'm just kind of like being here. I like the Oregon. I like the stained glass. I like that I can think here in a way that I can't think anywhere else in the world. Like, do we have to take all? The problem, like, once you put it through man, mankind, and they're in charge, it gets corrupted. Yeah. Well, that's part of the Baha'i mythology is that religion needs refreshing.

Uh-huh. You know, we update our software on our phone. Our operating system on our Apple computers goes from, you know, Yosemite to Cougar to, you know, Tiger Mountain or whatever. But we don't think of religion. in the same way, but it needs kind of updating and refreshing. Yeah. Is there a way to do it now?

Like there's people always yearn for it. People are always yearning for something from the spiritual side of them to be satisfied. But in the absence of religion, you know, everybody, you know, they're doing these things and trying this stuff and stuff. But it's hard. If you don't have like a set place to go and do, it's like it's hard to kind of dial it in. When you said, is meditation part of it also? It's certainly important in the Baha'i faith as it is in kind of every religious practice,

but it's an important daily part of my practice. Right. So I meditate, yeah. But that is part of the faith? Like, I do TM. I've been doing T.M for a long time. T.M. is amazing. It's amazing.

Yeah. It's so great. And it's so funny because whenever I talk about T.M., like if I, I, people are like, are you trying to like convert me? What are you in a cult? That's a tough thing about talking about religion. And I just feel bad about it. It's true.

Because people tried to convert people for so long that if you talk about it at all or bring it up. Yeah. Yeah. Just just immediately get that. They're going to try and convert me. Yeah. But I, you know, I just like talking about spiritual topics. I just love the, I love the study of it.

I love thinking about it. I like reading books about it. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. But meditation practice is part of the bio-va. It's not kind of regimen, and it's not like thou shalt meditate every day or whatever, but there's tons of writings about daily prayer and meditation.

Okay. You know. Prayer being different from meditation. Prayer being different from meditation because meditation really is listening and prayer is asking, you know, reaching out to something greater than yourself. Yeah. And that's part of the problem with losing God. And God's a tricky conversation.

and a complicated one. And I don't want to, you know, piss people off right now. But when you lose God, you lose the concept that there's something greater or bigger than us. And that's not good for our egos, individually and collectively. Yeah. Because we're ego-driven creatures. So I think that's been one of the problems as well. Yeah.

There is a humility about being in front of the universe and saying, you know, thy will not mine be done, you know. Right, right, exactly. Yeah, because there's a, the, the meditation is, you're kind of absent of a God, because you're absent of thought, really, you're just, and, yeah, and then at night I'll pray like I did when I was 10. You know what I mean?

And it's a totally different thing. Right, right. It's a completely different space. But do you find that there's a, it's kind of a yin-yang kind of dance between the two. The prayer comes in when you're meditating and the meditation comes in when you're praying and they feed each other, kind of?

It's a, I feel like we're in, we're in similar rooms. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. We're in similar rooms. But yeah, I think being raised Catholic, prayer is like, it's different.

Meditating, I feel like, TM, you just, kind of sinking below the surface and diffusing for a while where where Catholic prayer is, please forgive me for what a piece of garbage I am. And can you give me a new bike? Do you any jokes come to you in your meditation practice? No, no. But you know, it is interesting is it's true. change my presence on stage.

I don't push as much as, and this is just happened to observe it after time. It's that being that just being present kind of a thing is enough that meditation gives you. That. Why do you have ideas pop up when you meditate? Sometimes, but I remember interviewing David Lynch once back in the day and he's such an active meditation. He was talking about like the big idea. The ideas and he would like journal after his meditation, like images that he saw and thoughts that he had and like pictures and ideas,

snatches of dialogue. And I think he had mentioned that there were some areas from some of his films that, some moments that came up from meditation because you're going so deep into the subconscious. Yeah. He's pretty great to listen to. He's also distracting because he talks about going. under in TM in search of this blissful state that you're always trying and that just trying to get to a state is kind of the opposite of what you're doing like I understand he's just describing it but

when it gets in my head I'm like am I blissful yet am I blissful you know what is he talking about and there are times you know when you pop out and you're like you feel like you were deeper than other times yeah it's all valuable even when your head is busy yeah but yeah but yeah just hearing him talk about it is inspirational and distracting, I would say. Yeah, yeah. Are there a lot of people? Are there a lot of Baha'i? No, there's like $5 million around the world.

Yeah. It's the second most widespread of the world's religion. So there's like Baha'is everywhere. You go to Samoa or Mongolia. There's Baha'is there. Are there churches with priests? There's no clergy in the Baha'i faith. So it's all...

Text? It's all... kind of the inmates running the asylum. It's a democratically elected kind of religion. So there's little assemblies of people that govern the affairs of a city or a town or a country. Right, right, right. But no one has any station above anyone else or is interpreting holy texts better above anyone else. Yeah.

It sounds kind of perfect. It's cool. Were you raised that way? I was raised by high. my parents were Baha'i, a lot of people became Baha'is in the late 60s, early 70s in America, because that was a time when people were so spiritually searching. Yeah. Which is something that I really miss in this day and age.

Yeah. That I am, I was born in 66, so I remember the early 70s enough, like 73, 74. I remember that there were people fiercely having spiritual discussions. And the Beatles went to meet the Maha'Reilly. Raji Maharishi and Kat Stevens became a Muslim and you know even Steve Jobs went was on a Buddhist monastery and Dylan yeah yeah Dylan had those albums yeah and he went Jewish and then hardcore born again yeah people were exploring religious faith and looking for something new and for answers and had questions and didn't have answers necessarily but

it was it was an exciting time so that's what my parents became behind a lot of people became highs at that time. But then I left it pretty hardcore when I went to acting school in New York. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't want morality, you know. When you're in New York as a young actor. Exactly. Yeah, I was having sex with my girlfriend. I didn't want to have to feel bad. and, you know, I wanted to kind of party and get away from my parents and their whole shit and stuff. Right. But, you know, an interesting thing happened, which was that I, um, was really unhappy, even though I was, became a professional actor and I was working. I wasn't making much money, but I was working. And this was my, beyond my wildest dreams as a suburban

Seattle kid. Yeah. But I was really unhappy. And I had, you know, at the, what we'd call now mental health issues, which I didn't, no one talked about like mental health back in the 90s. So, you're just losing it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I was losing it. And I was anxious and having anxiety attacks and I was you know I would get depressed a lot had a lot of addiction issues yeah and um started therapy but I couldn't really like get into it I certainly couldn't afford it um and that's when it started I started thinking about like well maybe I did throw the baby out with the bathwater right abandoned this and so I checked out other religions and read spiritual texts and books and yeah you know yeah about it long and hard and kind of slowly came back by the time I moved

moved to LA, I was kind of back being a Baha'i and run year 2000. Right. Oh, okay. Cool. Is your family, your wife, your kid? My wife's a Baha'i, yeah. Oh, nice. That sounds great.

My kid's been raised to Baha'i, but we'll see what happens. And he's 17, so he's about to get rid of it all and go enjoy himself and come back. Who knows? We all have our journeys, you know. That's great. Well, that's good. Thank you for sharing that because it's, yeah, it's always on my mind, too. And I have one daughter. I have two kids. And my youngest was kind of searching since she was little.

And I got brought her to Catholic Church and stuff. And then we went to like a Christian church. Actually, the church where you guys shot, I think the wedding for the office. In Sherman Oaks? In Studio City on Colfax, like that church. That's a sweet little church. That's a sweet little church. And we went there and they're also Christian with guitars and nice and they pass around the bread. do all the thing. And we left and she was like, I like, I like that one. And I was like,

that wasn't even close to church. Where is the old guy yelling at us and making us feel shitty about ourselves? Like, I need that Catholic, you know, rage. And she's like, no,

it should feel good. I'm like, I don't think so. So funny. So another book, that's great. I didn't realize that you had written, was it,

The bassoon. The bassoon king. The bassoon king. Yeah. That's a comedic memoir of my life. But it has a good amount of the spiritual story in there. Oh, yeah? I tried to balance it because a lot of people don't, they want to hear funny stories about the office.

Right, right. And I'm happy to provide that. But, you know, I did want to talk about it because it's part of my journey. So I do lay it in there. But yeah, I wrote that. And then I wrote a book called Soul Pancake, Chew on Life's Big Questions, which was based on digital media company I started with some friends called SoulPancake. That was all about philosophy and spirituality, psychology, and the arts and making uplifting

video content. Oh, nice. Yeah, so that was around for a while, a good 10 years or so. Very cool. I didn't know that. Yeah. Are you still doing it? We sold the company to participant media, and so they kind of got folded into what participant

is doing, because they had a very similar kind of mission. but as a film company. Right. So, you know, a lot of the SoulPancake team is still there now working for participant. Right. That sounds close to a regular job, Rain. It was kind of that way, yeah. Yeah.

I kind of bowed out. I stepped away. Fun for a bit, but how long are we going to do this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So now you're writing this next book. Do you still play the bassoon? I do kind of.

I know. You know, people were just doing the weirdest things during the pandemic. And one of the things I did was like, I bought a bassoon. You know, but people are like, I'm going to take up woodworking. I'm going to do ceramics. Like Seth Rogen posts like all of his clay pots. His pots and stuff, which is great. I love it.

And I was like, I'm going to learn the bassoon again. So I got a bassoon. I don't play it a ton, but, you know, I can pick it up and noodle away on it. Oh, it's great. I just watched this great documentary on this. this last flight I was on called the conductor about, I'm going to mess up her name, but her first name is Marin, M-A-R-I-N. I think Alyssa or Lippo or something like that.

She was the first female conductor of a major orchestra. Oh, wow. And yeah, she's still going. But she just was coming up when there were no women conductors. And you're just told, no, you can't, that's not a thing. And she just kept chugging. and started leading these great orchestras and did one in Brazil, took like this ramshackle orchestra, and just all with good intention.

All of like just, let's just lift people up with music and lift children up with music. And she just this little thing and just kept plugging away. And then she's like in Vienna, like, taking care of that. It's great. Yeah. It really is so good. I don't know if there was any, there were no really. you like break out interviews with the bassoon players you might not like to forget it yeah how do you

play the bassoon by yourself you just kind of like hang and is it like a nice solo instrument you just go yeah it's pretty cool yeah do you listen to jazz not really no yeah classical not really no rock yeah yeah like indie rock and yeah yeah experimental rock. Right. Stuff like that. Yeah. Did you like growing up in Seattle?

I did like growing up in Seattle. You know, at the time, I didn't know if I did. You know, I think wherever we grow out, I don't think anyone is like in the middle of growing up. This is awesome. Maybe some people are. Yeah. When I look back on it, it was, you know, it was just so innocent and dorky and, you know,

with Dungeons and Dragons games that would go from Friday night till Sunday. afternoon and, you know, marching band and just, you know, running around riding bikes and cul-de-sacs and throwing pine cones at each other and drinking slurpees. And, you know, it was pretty awesome. Yeah, it's a good thing. And your wife from up there? She's from Portland, yeah. I'm from Portland.

We met at the University of Washington and Seattle. Oh, nice. Yeah, my daughter was looking at that school. Did you like going to that school? You've, you've college-age kids now? Oh, my God. rain. I have a, yeah, I have one that's going to be a junior in college. Oh my God. And another one that's going to be a senior in high school. I didn't do the math, but I remember when you had little kids, but of course,

that was the early 2000. Now they're people. Wow. Yeah. Well, I mean, you're there, 17. Yeah. You're right there too. Yeah, UW, University of Washington is pretty cool. Yeah, it was cool. It's funny because we went on a tour there. And it was this gorgeous day and those trees in the quad were just blooming and the sun was shining. And, and the sun was shining. And they took everybody into the theater and really adamantly began the speech with, let us be clear, this is not what the school looks like most of the time. We do not have sunshine and flowers here. So if you think this is what you're going to get when you come here, think again. A lot of gray skies, a lot of drizzle.

Yeah. I'm going to shoot my next special in Seattle. Oh, nice. Yeah. We're at. The Neptune. Oh, the Neptune. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just like, they're just such a, it's got enough, enough grace guys where the people are cool.

Yeah, and they get it and they're smart and they're great. Yeah, they just kind of love that kind of thing. That's great. Do you have family up there still? I do. My stepmom lives in, uh, in West Seattle. Um, that's, that's about it. I think I have a few cousins here or there, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you field, how do you field offers now? Like, do you have to audition or? Um, that's, that's about it. I think I have to audition or. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you field, how do you feel offers now? Like, Do the people just send you stuff and you get to pick what you want to do? Are you going to emerge into a Bill Murray-esque thing where they don't know how to find you? Just get an 800 number? Yeah, they have to get a script to a golf course or... That's funny. No, man, I listen.

I'm still auditioned sometimes. Sometimes I get offers. Sometimes the phone doesn't ring for months. Right. I don't know. Who the hell knows? Yeah. I'm really excited about this job that I'm just about to undertake,

which is called the Geography of Bliss. And I'm going to do my first hosting gig where I go around the world. I'm kind of like the Anthony Bourdain of happiness. So it's going around the world discovering like why are people happier in some places than others. That's great. What works about certain cultures that doesn't work about others? What uplifts us? What creates greater well-being?

Yeah. But with quirky comedy along the way. Yeah, with your voice. That would be great. Wow, that's great. Yeah, we're going to like Iceland. The first trip is Iceland, which is the happiest. They're the happiest, right?

Right. And then Bulgaria, which is the unhappiest. Oh, boy. Yeah. So. Maybe they should just change the name. It's hard to even say that with a smile. Bulgaria. Bulgaria.

Yeah, they should call it like Flappy Town or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like Funsville. Yeah. Yeah, that's rough. Why is Iceland so happy? Well, there's a number of reasons that the Scandinavian countries are happy. I mean, part of it is because they're so well taken care of. They've got health care. Right. They've got education. Yeah. Paternity and maternity leaves. Right. There's, you know, that social net is so strong. They don't mind paying 40, 50%, percent. in taxes because so many things are taken care of. Right, right.

You know, and I think there's a sense of community. I think people, you know, they're not so individualistic, kind of like, I do think there's something about American ethos of like live free or die and don't tread on me. You know, that's kind of like, it's me. It's me. It's me. I buy for myself. Yeah, yeah.

It's kind of more communal. Uh-huh. But I don't have all the answers on that yet. We're just starting to get the trips planned out and the casting going. So we're going to be speaking to experts along the way and seeing what works, you know. That's a great idea. They bathe together in Iceland a lot. Oh.

Naked. Naked bathing? I think they're asking me to do some naked bathing while I'm in Iceland. Yeah, why not? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Come on. Who are we trying to impress at this age?

I don't know, please. Please. I really was thinking that the other day I was in New York in a hotel, and there's like an apartment, like, right across the street. And, you know, I could see them. I'm sure they could see me. And I'm getting ready. And at first I was like, oh, I'm naked.

I'm like, have at it. Yeah. Dig in. Enjoy, folks. This is what you have to look forward to right here. Right, exactly. Yeah. Well, that sounds like a great project.

Yeah. How long will it take you out on the road for? It's just three, two-week trips. Okay, that's good. Yeah, and then we'll do six episodes for Peacock. It'll come out sometime next year. Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah.

Back to Bliss, back to the David Lynch Bliss. Being consciousness bliss is the saying from the Hindu Vedas. Yeah. Being, we are alive, consciousness, we are aware, and then we seek kind of to exist in bliss, knowing those previous two things. It's so evasive. And it's so hard when you get close to brushing up against it to hold on to. You can't.

That's why it's like, that's why they, that's why they, must be why they call it a practice. Like any of this stuff is a practice. Yeah, it's interesting. Because there's so much stuff about happiness. Yeah. And I really struggle with the word happiness because it's so ephemeral. And it's, it, it, oh, I forget what the word is,

but it is a result of other circumstances. You know, it's not, you can't just make yourself be happy. It's like, okay, I'm going to be happy now. I'm going to be happy. Like, it's like we're having a nice conversation and we're laughing and all of a sudden you go, well, I'm really happy. Right. And then I could come back next week and we could laugh and have a conversation and I could

be like, yeah, I feel like shit, you know. Yeah. So chasing happiness, and again, this has to do with the kind of some of the core ethos that the United States specifically is based on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You're pursuing something that's not pursuable. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of well-being. You know.

Contentment. Contentment. Yeah, great. Yeah. So those are more attainable. Right. No, that's not to say there aren't things you can do to increase your happiness. Right.

And pursuing it may, you know, you may not get it and be able to hold on to it forever, but if you're heading. that direction. Pursuing it from an American tradition is pursuing material success. Yeah. So life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness means the pursuit of getting more stuff. Right. Exactly.

I've been really, I've been struggling with that when I've been on tour and you see these people in the, they're like angry and they want more. Everyone wants more. It's like, just be happy with what you got. Like the simple things, like turning back to just like the simple life of, you know, You got the guy across the street and you got your little bar that you go to and you got your little shop that you get your things. And that should be enough. It's funny you say that because one of the tools for happiness is gratitude.

And I don't know how much you've read about this, but, you know, the studies are phenomenal. Gratitude is like the magic pill of all time. Right. People who practice gratitude are happier and then they're healthier. They're also more well-liked. They exercise more because they like themselves more. So they become healthier. They get promoted more at work.

They sleep better. All of the stuff, the fallout that comes from practicing gratitude, which is exactly what you're talking about. Like as opposed to I am lacking stuff and I want more stuff. It's like, I'm so happy with what I have. I'm grateful for what I have. This is enough. And then that allows us to feel increased well-being.

Yeah. Oh, that's great. All right. One last question. Yeah. Thank you so much. This was great. Okay.

Who does the cooking in your house? It's embarrassing. No one. No one. You don't cook? Your wife doesn't cook. We have a part-time house cleaner and she'll cook us like trays of enchiladas and like some salads and put them in. And she'll buy a chicken from Costco.

Really? And we're just like, yeah, and then we'll order out from a couple places through the way. We're neither of us cook. That's just funny. No bread. This is why. this is going to be so well That's good

What to use Oh, I'm glad I would have brought you two lows If I knew you guys were so hungry Yeah You got any other food around here You want to take some of your avocados back Maybe I will That's why you gave them to us

You don't know what to do with them Guacamole I know how to do Do I still make it? No, but No, because it's going to take onions and tomatoes We don't have those Is your refrigerator empty? Sometimes

Yeah Yeah It's so funny. You know, yeah, we're just, we're non-cooks, me and my wife. Oh, that's funny. You like to cook a lot? I love to cook, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

To me, it feels like it's just a colossal waste of time. It's like, I don't understand it. Like, you're like, oh, I'm slicing this garlic each one so thin and the Roma tomato. I've got that boiling. And then, you know, an hour and five minutes later, you've made this wonderful dinner. And then everyone eats it in like 12 minutes. Yeah. And they're pooping it out the next day.

Where did that hour go? You have to clean it. You need to even get that part. You could have been practicing bassoon. You could have learned American sign language or, you know, Italian. But I've given you this bread. And then you're going to take this bread home. And you're going to take it a nice serrated knife.

Do you probably don't have a right? I do have a nice serrated knife. I do. All right. Good. And then it'll be a good feeling. I have all the accoutrements. Yeah.

I have like the nice stove and the pots and the stuff. I just don't use them very much. So. All right. Well, I'll bring you more bread next time. That would be great. Yeah. You're great.

This was so nice talking to you. This was a very serious conversation. Who is in and out? I feel like I let the listener down because I wasn't very funny. No, you know what? I'm not feeling very funny these days. You made me laugh. Okay, good.

And you know what? I think the stuff we talked about is stuff people would want to hear. I hope so. Yeah, I was interested. I told you religion is a comment. comedy killer, but you went there. It was great. I mean, come on now.

I mean, that's why we're here is to connect with people. Yeah. And have an elevated discussion. Yeah. About the human experience. And sometimes that's funny. Sometimes it's not as fun. You know what I'm going to say this was?

You know what I'm going to call this episode? What's that? Blissful. Hmm. You heard that? What else you got going on? I have a podcast of my own. Oh.

And I'm really excited about it. It's called metaphysical milkshake. Nice. And it's very much in line with what we've been talking about. It's about life's big questions and ideas, philosophical, spiritual, psychological, artistic, sociological. We interview authors, but comedians as well. And really interesting folks.

And we kind of dig into some really deep topics. That's perfect. With my co-host, Reza Aslan, who's a writer and provocateur. And we've had Malcolm Gladwell, in the show, but we also have stand-up comics and weird artists and musicians. It's right up my alley. You check it out. What's it called again?

Metaphysical milkshake. All right. And your production company was called something pancake. Soul pancake. Soul pancake. And yet you don't cook. And I don't. A lot of food items.

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't cook. Oh, that's cool. And it's, how many of you done so far? We've done like, we've done like 50 so far. Oh, cool. Yeah.

We've gone for over a year. Oh, awesome. Yeah. I love this. I love when I can get a new one. Yeah. All right. Awesome. It's super fun. Very cool.

Thanks. You're the best. You're the best. Got it, Aaron. All right, everybody. That was our big conversation with Rain Wilson. I told you who's a special character. Thank you so much for participating in this podcast.

Keep all the love coming. Keep coming out to the shows. Go to tompapa.com. I will be in Las Vegas this Friday, May 6th. A big show in Las Vegas. Tickets. still available and the rest of the tour rolls on from there. Thank you so much and we'll see you next time.