Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 114 - Gabrielle Reece

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

Gabrielle Reece is an athlete, model, and host of The Gabby Reece Show podcast. She makes the world better and for that she gets bread!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, it's how we're going. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey! Hey, everybody welcome. It's another episode of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. This is very exciting.

Thank you for being here. We've got a great show for you today, a great guest. This means a lot to me. Gabrielle Reese, Gabby Reese, is coming on the program today. she's an amazing person and I haven't seen her since the pretty much the day that the pandemic started in the United States of America. I went and did her podcast and then the world completely shut down and so this is kind of a full circle moment having Gabby come and actually sit here at the table share some bread and some stories you're going to love it. She's very inspiring. I would like to

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$80 in free groceries. That's Thrive, T-H-R-I-V-E Market.com slash Papa to get $80 in free groceries. Come on now. All right, so we have a great show for you today. I'm very excited to jump right into it and get this conversation going with Gabby. She is amazing an amazing athlete, volleyball champion, college athlete, supermodel, beautiful, stunning, bright person inside and out. She's married to Laird Hamilton, who you know from the sea. And I went and spent some time with her right as the pandemic was just about to kick off in all of its glory and went to her house, did the podcast. And I have to say, just the conversation that we had, knowing that she comes from this just kind of very inspiring world. She doesn't just, life doesn't just,

just doesn't accept life as it is. She actually lives it, studies it, and is always looking for a way to make her life better. And if you listen to the Gabby Reese show, which is her podcast, it is just filled with all of these interesting people who are just, every time you listen to it, you come away with a little bit more knowledge and you're a little better off for it. And I say that as part of the intro just because spending some time with her doing her podcast, I left like, oh, I am better for having met her. and that we finally, after all of this time, are able to invite her here on my podcast, it just truly means a lot, not just because of where we've come, but just that my instincts were correct, that this is a special person, and that she made the effort to come and spend some time with us is great.

So please, enough of my babbling on, please enjoy this. great conversation with my great friend, Gabby Reese. I'm so relieved to talk to someone else other than me having to ask someone to talk to me. Oh my goodness. It's so great. Yeah. Like I know my name and I know like a couple things. Right.

It's it. Yeah, we don't have to dig deep. Just enjoy ourselves. Well, it's so great because when I came to your house and did your podcast, It was right as the world was shutting down. You were my last in person. I was. Man, oh, man.

Yeah. Good luck for me. And I was like, I was leaving. We had such a nice time and I got to go in the sauna and have a nice, a nice, nutritious drink. And then we had this great podcast. I was like, oh, this is great. This is the beginning of a friendship. Like, this is more than just doing the podcast.

I can't wait to come back and see you again. And two years, over two years. two years. Over two years. Yeah. Well, because I had a gravitational pull towards you, and I always honor that. When I see certain people and I have a pull towards them, I'll just reach out. Right. And I always, I just would watch you and I just, I had a gravitational pull towards you. Oh, that's so nice to hear. Yeah. So I was like, and when you're like, I'll come over and then you're in my sauna and stuff, I was like, oh, Tom Poppa's here. Yeah, I know. It was great. And I really was like, oh, I'm going to come back. And then, and then, and then, you know, couldn't see anybody. So it was really

looking forward to this. Just to, I mean, holy cow. I know. How'd you do? I'm still married. Good. Because you know, you have any couples, you have like either, you know, and you go, COVID took another group out.

Yeah. So much intensive time. Especially imagine, like, you guys travel. You're on the road. Yeah. Your wives are probably like, what? You're here now. You're here all the time.

I know. So we're still, we're still married. And my, one of my daughters actually a year ago moved to Spain to go to tennis academy. Wow. And then my youngest daughter, she went back to school. So that kind of normalized things. But it made me, honestly, it slowed everything down so much for me. Yeah. And then I also felt like we had this extra layer of everyone yelling at everyone in this last year. Oh, you mean in the culture? Just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not your house. Oh, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's been the same. I'm out. Right. Yeah.

yelling or not yelling. Yeah. That didn't really change. People I'm not related to. Yeah. No, just it was a, for me, I was like, to go outside, I was like, oh, out in the world. So I, we decided in our house that we would lead with more empathy. But also I have, I have aggressive politeness.

So I lean on everybody in my world when I go out in public. Yeah. We're going to be polite. So I'm like, good morning. And they're like, oh. And I'm like, you know, like, we're going to. We're saying good morning to each other. Yeah.

You know. I know. I kind of went the other way. What'd you do? Because I was always friendly to the point of being, feeling foolish. Like when I would run in my neighborhood. Oh. And I ever, anybody I pass.

Yeah. I would be like, hey, good morning. Like acknowledge like a human being? Yeah. Like, oh, we're going to see each other. Maybe 65% returned it and would, and the others would just. dead cold in your eyes and keep going. I know.

And there was a part of me that was always thinking, who knows what they're going through? Who knows why they're walking right now? Who knows what they're not all about you? That's right. Who knows what they're dealing with? And, but I just kept it up. And then after the pandemic,

I was like, you know, maybe I don't have to greet everybody. We have to. We do. We got to stay out there, Tom. Yeah. We got it because what happens is that this is a fundamental thing of just being a human being. And we're losing it more and more because of technology.

Never mind COVID. Yeah. But look at little kids or younger people. I mean, my youngest daughter, I'll say to her, go in there and ask for what you want. Right. And she's like, hey, it's hard for me to talk to people. I go, yeah, let me tell you about life. And more and more, it's like we don't have a checkout person.

Right. You order everything online. Yeah. So I feel like if you have it in you, it's like, you have to do it. You have to do it. And that's where actually I use my size and being a female. Right. I torture everybody into it.

Literally. I do. It's like I could be your mother. Say hello. You know, it's like this weird. Right. I put people really on the spot. When you're on a plane.

Yeah. And the person, you're on the aisle and the person comes in and they're going to sit next to you. So you get up. Yes. I'm established. Right away. Dominance. Yes.

Right. You went right for dominance. Yeah, of course. It's the only way. I went to. I was going, I always say, good morning. Yeah. Because we're going to be together. We don't have to talk. Because it's a vibration, right? You can be like, you're sending me positive versus like, oh, I'm afraid. Yeah. And a lot of times people just come in and they won't say anything or they'll just kind of squirrel away. People aren't friendly to you at every moment. No. No. It's strange. Why?

I just think if someone like you is like, good morning. Even with your cadence. It's, it would be unavoidable. You know, My husband does. It's actually really funny. Yeah. Because he's not like you, actually. You see him and even when he's being nice, like, is he, is that friendly? Yeah, his resting face doesn't say. It's very wild animal, right?

Right. But he is very polite. And so he'll be in Hawaii and he'll drive in the morning, like on a cart, let's say, in the neighborhood. And he'll go by people and be like, good morning, you know. Right. And if they don't say hello sometimes, he'll turn the cart around and drive by him and say, good morning. Nice. And make them like engage.

Yeah. And you realize, though, that I think people. really want it. They're scared. They're really scared. They are scared. Yeah. That's why we can't stop. Yeah. No, I have a whole part of my act right now, which I don't know. It's almost seems too preachy because I'm talking about, I say that there's a, you can lose faith in being a good person and you think that there's more of them out there than us. And, but don't just because, you know, they're just louder. The bad people are louder. Smiles are more quiet. And I say, don't, so don't, and this is where it gets preachy, I say don't, don't stop and

don't lose faith in all the small things that you do, the holding the door open, the saying good morning. They change you, because they do change you more than the other world. They change you, they change your community, they change the world. And hopefully it goes on and on. And then the audience glazes over and they're like, we thought you were going to be a. comedian. But that's also a comedian's job, right? It's to do social commentary and also make it safe to talk about those uncomfortable things. Yeah. Which also, I know that that's been a whole other thing, that that's being even shut down. People are like, oh, words. I'm like, are you serious? This is what comedians are supposed to do. But I think you, I think from what I have seen is that it seems

like you actually weave that in all the time in all of your comedy. Right. And so it's a, it's, I think it for anyone who's halfway paying attention, you appreciate it because it's like he's still trying to drop something off that's important for all of us that we need. And I liken it to a little bit, like when someone talks about dark is dark, but when a light comes on, it disappears. Right. And so I think sometimes, even though, you know, it's boring being nice or whatever, the hysterics, because people are hysterical. Right. Because they're wound up. And they're wound up. they're scared. Yeah. I think there's something to the strength of kindness that we just have to keep at. Yeah. And understand that we can't control. Like once it leaves us, you can't control how

people react. Right. We can only control that we're willing and able. Yeah. Remember that too. Yeah. To be like, take warning. Just to be aware. Right. Someone might be like so deep in their own thing that they're not even able. No, you're right. And the impact of that, like, this horrible story that happened on the fourth in Illinois, the stories when you hear just that this one person, excuse me, worked at the church every day and was a volunteer, like three things, like worked at the church was a volunteer and had a great family. The impact of that, the loss seems so great. And here's a person who doesn't get any real accolades on a grand scale, but you just, everybody knows that person and what an impact that person has in the community, it validates being kind and turning the

card around. You know, people are going to remember that. Well, and it's what makes community community and as like cheesy as it is, is, I think more than now than, more now than ever, like we need to sort of just have an offset tone. Right. Because the other thing is there's just so many channels of influx of information. And I actually think that the majority of the people don't feel this way. Yeah. It's that that noise is so loud.

But if you walk around in your day-to-day, like when I go to the market, because I go to the grocery store, I see people. And I do, even if you take us one second to hone in with somebody, people, the flip side is you also see a movement towards people. desperate to have just like a good moment with someone. I really, I feel like that that fear that you're talking about of where you're avoiding people is, uh, it isn't real. Like it does come from these select outlets. Yeah. But they're powerful and they're really shaping. So like everybody, I was in an elevator at the lounge at American Airlines and it was this big guy traveling by himself, me, early morning traveling by myself and this woman who's about 75 in a bright yellow jacket and her husband and we were all just

kind of grumbling into the elevator and we get on the elevator and she just looks around and I could just feel her winding up and she goes so where's everybody traveling today and the guy was like um i'm going to philly i'm going to see my mom and i was like oh i'm going back home to L.A. and it just like we came in there like gremlins like trolls and we went out like fairies we were all like yeah have a enjoy yourself. I was like, right, travel's fun. Yeah. And there's, weirdly, I don't know if it's true or not, I do think it's sometimes easier as

the female to, to have that liberty a little more to like move around and be like, hey, what's up, you know, like sometimes. Yeah. With other women? With everyone. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, it's like that lady is like, that's the energy of like, hey, guys.

Yeah. Like, what are you guys doing? You know. I'll make jokes, of course. Like I'll be, I'll say something of course. That way and kind of try and break it, at least a line or something. But how did you do? How did you do?

Let's get away from the culture for a second. Because you're always what's so great about you. And it's another part, this would be part two of the question. You're always, your podcast is great because you're always searching. You're always working. You're always digging. And number one, did that? that help you, like, get through it all? And number two, are you ever not digging? Are you ever

not searching and just give yourself, like, a break from pulling more info in? I think it, I think for me personally, the digging, because you know this from your own experience. Anytime you do something at any decent level, let's say, sometimes you start to think you know something. And then before you know it, everything is past you by and you don't don't know anything and you don't even know the way the world works right and you don't and you know less about what your space of of understanding so my hope is like forced learning to keep me malleable as a person right because there is a moment and I don't know what age it is but it's coupled with especially any level of and it doesn't have to be grand but success where you think I know something right

and I got it it's a death uh-huh and I also live with someone it helps have a built-in husband who is very curious. Right. He's just curious to be curious. He's not curious. It doesn't always have to have a grand point. Right. So for me, I think that really also saved me.

It created an equilibrium in a north, which was like, okay, I don't understand the way of the world. I'm not understanding a lot of things about COVID. I'm understanding almost nothing about the news. Right. And people are all yelling at each other. Maybe I can learn something. and sort of like disseminate it. And, you know, it's also making that clear choice.

Right. When you're doing it's like when you do this show, it's like you sort of, because you look at other people doing podcasts, for example, and I look at people and I'm like, oh, I could, I wish I drank martinis and did vagina jokes. Like, I wish I had some of that often. But I'm like, okay, no, you within being open to being different is also going, how can you contribute?

Right. And being okay with that. Yeah, or just realizing what your true value is. Because you don't, we always think everyone else is more valuable. That's amazing. Yeah. Like I see that. So instead I learned to just always, and I learn this in sport.

It's like appreciate others. Right. And stay open, but then also listen to your inside voice. That's how you're going to show up. Right. So in this mix. And then as far as like being still or not bouncing around, I think there's a lot of value in stillness, in not searching.

It's funny, I just was recently, I read Arthur C. Brooks, had a book called Strength to Strength. And he just talks about sometimes, and Byron Katie talks about it. Like, maybe this is it. Like, maybe this is the success. Because I feel like it's like, where am I going? What am I achieving? What am I?

What's next? What's next? Yeah. So the blend of, hey, learning. open and being. Yeah. Yeah. There's that, yeah, that great thing. Oh, I forget his name, but just this is it. You're it. You're here. Yeah. It's like, oh, oh, thanks. And it's hard, it's hard to do, especially just, you know, you're feeding families. And when you're young, think about, remember when you came out in your 20s, it's like you're supposed to build something. Yeah.

Yeah. But at this point, I do feel like there's got to be a balance, though, between that acceptance of like, okay, I am okay. But I also have to do. Maybe not to feed that, maybe not to just do, but to feed the ego, but to be putting stuff out there. There's got to be some little mission that you're contributing. You know what I mean? Like, because you can just be retired and just sit back. Right. Well. I agree with you, though, because when you get out of bed every day, those little missions and that contribution, that's purpose. And I think what's interesting, too, is sometimes I think when I think hear the word mission or like little mini project or dream, I always think of the word hope. Uh-huh. Right. Because you just, I don't know, you keep building in things that create kind of like a, you know, dreaminess in you or excitement or hope, like, oh, I hope, you know. Yeah.

And I think no matter how much a person is done in their life, that that's a really good mechanism. Oh, 100%. And it keeps you young. Really, I forget my age so often. Really, because, and I think of like being the guy in the elevator, making some joke or something. It's like, this is a 50-year-old man. Like, why? I see guys that are my age out in the world doing jobs with ties. and stuff and they're not acting this way. I'm acting like... You got lucky.

Like the 20-year-old. You got lucky. I know, but I always think like, well, the rest of the world must be looking at me like, I am those guys. No. You know what I mean? Your kids ever go, okay, dad. Oh, yeah, 100%.

Because both my husband and I are pretty friendly to people. Yeah. And my kids don't mind, but my youngest daughter's like, okay. Okay. And I'm like, we're humans. And I wonder, like, do your kids ever like, oh, hey, funny guy, enough with the jokes. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Do they? Oh, 100%. especially, yeah, especially if I'm bombing, if I'm in a restaurant and bombing with the waiter or any place like that, they're just like, oh, my God. Nothing like our kids to just be like, you know, it's almost like they're, they're, oh, it's beyond truth. Yeah. It's like, okay, part of it is true, but you've gone also too far.

With what? No, meaning like they're almost too hard on us in a certain way. Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's like, okay, you're within reason. but now also you're overcorrecting. Yeah, now you're just, yeah, I've been talking about that recently that I get how the world works. Like, for them to leave, for a child to leave, you have to destroy your parents. Yeah.

But I get that. But you could be a little nicer about it. You don't have, I mean, I understand what you're doing and how you're. Yeah, it's the breaking away. Yeah, I get that. But, God, you don't have to be so mean about it. But Laird always is like, you know what their job is? And it's always funny coming from him, you know, because he's, you know, and he's like,

yeah, it's like basically to kill us and then take our spot and then like go on. And I'm like, oh, sort of true. It's a little harsh and there's some overlapping years, but okay. Right. I know. Exactly. But sometimes he says that, that and they're turning us into samurai swords. You know what that? You know what happens there?

They heat you up. They bang you. They cool you and they keep doing that over and over. And then he's like, it's the hardest steel on the planet. You're tempered, right? At that point. You are. Yeah.

I caught myself the other night where I have, I have, one is away at school and one's still here. So one's still the ongoing project for another year. Yeah. And totally her own thing, very complex, just like, you know, that one. And I find myself, it's so, I find it the same way as I do. with the dogs where I'm like, don't be an ass.

Just go with the flow. You don't understand this being completely. Be cool. Just she's doing what she's doing because of the day. And then they do something and this rage flares up. It goes out the window. It goes out the window. And all completely.

I'm like, well, how might just be a little nicer for Christa? Oh, yeah. And then you catch yourself. It's like, I was just telling myself, I'm going to be the cool one. I have that all the time. Right?

It's all right. She doesn't like me. That's okay. And then, I have that all the time. You're like, okay, I even have a strategy. Like I'll do a strategy so I can follow the strategy.

Yeah. Like if this happens, this will be your reaction, you know. Right, right. And it usually works, but also what I have learned is because I'm pretty actually weirdly flexible. Because I think I've learned through parenting long enough. Yeah.

You sort of go, oh, the easier way is actually, you know, what did somebody say? that in which you resist persists, right? So I'm like, yo, I'm not going to be that person. Right. Like, oh, you want me to get out of your room? Yeah, get out of your room.

No problem. Like, I don't even think, oh, wait, you know, talk to me like that, you know? But when they go too far, I turn into what I have a friend that calls me Gabe. And it's like the male part of my personality. Like, it's me and when I drive. It's me when I, like, I'm doing certain things. Game shows up. And it's like, I'm like, I don't know who the fuck you're talking to.

Like that. Like, I don't know. And I see them. They go like, whoa. And I'm like, yeah, not. I mean, I'm not your dad because my husband's actually a sweeter in a certain way. He makes more raw, rah, rough. Right.

And I'm cooler because I understand I was a girl. Mm-hmm. But then I go to a certain point. I'm like, I'm not your dad. You can't manipulate me. And I can talk to me like that. I go, where do you think all the good stuff comes through? Me, I'm trying to accommodate you.

And then I split. And then they're like, okay, okay, wait, wait, okay, sorry. I'm like, you're only sorry because you're going to want something later. Right. Let's be clear. Like, I turn into gay. You turn into gay. Mom goes out the window.

So when Gabe walks into the other room, when you walk into the other room and you realize, oh, shit, Gabe just showed up. Yeah. Do you? Oh, it's so great. At least for a few minutes. And then when I start to reason it out, see, that's the thing is sometimes exerting it without feeling apologetic or being like, oh, I was too hard on them. Even when they were very, not very little, I'm not only like three, but like six, sick by the time they were six. Sometimes I would be to do the mommy talk like, hey, well, you know.

And then I'd be like, listen here. I'm just going to tell you straight now. a person. Yeah. Like if this continues, this will happen and there's going to be a problem. Because at some point, it's like the real world is tough. Yeah. And doing all this like coddling or reasoning or room.

And, you know, granted, the times I blow it like what you're talking about or I turn into Gabe, there's a part of me that also knows that's also a part of it. Yeah, maybe it's not blowing it. But it feels like you're blowing it. It does feel like you blow it because it's out of your control. You're not, all of a sudden, you know, you're not. all of a sudden you've got your systems and you got your things. And all of a sudden, Gabe shows up hot.

Yeah, hot. Well, and Gabe has a really, like, very strong mouth. And she talks very slow and quiet, but it's like, you know, it's pretty heavy duty. But I feel so good sometimes, too, because I'm like, this is the most honest I have been to you. Yeah, right. I know. Right. Because I really feel, you know.

Yeah. And actually, I feel like they hate you in that moment, but they also appreciate. appreciate it. Like, when you just show up, I guess I'll be Carol. When my Carol shows up, and it's just like, no more discussion, no more we're getting around this. I don't want to. It's just boom, boom, boom, no, this is right.

You're doing it done. And like, all right, anger took me over. Yeah. But Carol got stuff done. Like, we all know it. We're not discussing it anymore. This is the line. Especially, I don't want to over generalize, but I will.

daughters, they can just, they're beautiful at the art of conversation and getting what they want. And they will keep at you. Like, they will keep going. And I literally have to say, this is a hard no. Right. Like I literally has to go there. And they keep going. And I'm like, no, you don't understand.

Like, now stuff's going to start, like, disappearing from your life. Right. You know. But it takes me a very long time to get there. Me too. Yeah. Me too. And all the over-talking.

Sometimes, too, like, when my kids were young, I remember one time I was thinking I was crying out by the garbage cans, literally. You know, like, I'm, because you're always, I'm terrible. I'm a failure. I'm too nice. I'm not hard enough. Like, whatever the dialogue is. Yeah. And Larry comes in and he just looks at me.

And he goes, and I go, I just, I'm a terrible parent. Like, I don't know. I mean, I don't pull a knife on my kids or beat them or anything. But just sometimes you don't know. And he goes, have you ever seen the mother sometimes just kind of rar the cubs? I'm like, yeah. He goes, sometimes that. That's what they understand.

And it doesn't mean physical. It just means someone explained it to me like this. It's like the captain of a ship. Yeah. We don't want you to be in charge, but we need you to be in control. Right. Right. And so I'm not here to control your life.

You're going to be who you are. I love you. Yeah. Whatever that is. But also at some point I need to stand up and be like right now, I'm in charge. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely.

And I always say to my wife because they do keep coming. And it's like. Not you. And then they'll start texting her on the side and they're asking, like they're. Yeah. And I said, just shut it down. No more responding. They have to be home by this time.

Done. Oh, yeah. No more. No, don't engage. Yes. The spontaneous leverage for just the 30 and all my friends and their time. Right. It's not fair.

And everybody else does and everybody else doesn't. It's okay. Because you watch with other, like my sisters with their kids and the kids are now older, but they all appreciated. that they weren't allowed a phone at this time, that they weren't allowed to own a video game. Like all those things that were huge fights back in the day. And you thought, and they were just, they stuck to it.

My sister, like, they stuck to it as parents. It paid off, really. Yeah. You know when you have the one that you're going to pick and you dread it? Yeah, because it would be so much easier. Oh, you're just like, here we go. I'm going to say no to this thing. And I just know the headache that's coming.

I know. I always remember. on Michelle Obama was on Letterman. And Letterman was saying, they were talking about parenting. And Dave was like, yeah, and they really want to do. It's just so, it's just a lot of work just to say no.

It's just, and she goes, yeah, Dave, parenting is hard. It's like, you don't actually really want to be bossing someone around all the time. No. That's the thing for me is, I don't want to boss you around. I really don't get off on it. Yeah. Yeah. I know.

I don't want to, right, I just want to just roll. It's so, it's so much work just to be you, just to get your shit together for that day. Yes. Do whatever you're going to do. Do all the right things. Just keep and keep a good attitude and all of that stuff just to get, navigate 24 hours of you. Yes. And then someone comes in from left field and moody and wah.

She needs. And you're supposed to guide them. I'm like, oh, geez. I have this all. We're all in good shape. Add a relationship on top of it and then you're really in the mix. Oh, my God. I know.

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That's ThriveMarket.com. slash Papa. Thrivemarket.com slash Papa. I was listening to your podcast. I don't know who she was, a doctor of some sort, maybe a psychologist or, and she was, you were talking about labels when kids, oh, you actually gave the advice. Don't go with a therapist or somebody who just defines you right off the bat

while you're codependent or you're this or you're that. because those labels stick. And I feel like that's kind of what we're up against now is because TikTok is giving them those labels. Every single kid I know has everything because they can identify with it all on TikTok. They literally see, well, they have, and some of it's valid and some of it's not.

Everybody has trauma, everybody has anxiety. Everybody has all of these different things. And, you know, it's like you look up web, MD or whatever. It's like, oh, I have all these symptoms. Absolutely. Well, because it's part of being a human. Right. It's a mess. Like anxiety is part of being human. Right. Now, I, and I have learned that feeling anxious versus having true anxiety, which a lot of people actually don't. Right. It's very different. These are worlds apart. Right. And so when we have these uncomfortable

feelings, it's like, oh, I'm anxious. It's like, no, you're experiencing anxiety, which also it was meant biologically to just keep you alert and alive. And so there's a place for it. But yeah, I learned that with one of my daughters. It's like, and like you said, when you and I grew up, we didn't know anyone who committed suicide. Maybe we knew somebody who knew somebody. It wasn't something that was around. Right.

And then you wouldn't be like telling your parents that they're triggering you. Right. You didn't have the vernacular. No. So the problem is when you're going through a developmental time, 10 to 17, whatever the span is. Yeah. I think it's the most important thing to not be anything. Yeah.

I think you go through phases. Right. But then they hold on to them. And then you want to go into your adult life with that nonsense if you don't have to? Right. I mean, if you have it and it's a real thing, okay, I have a lot of compassion. Sure. But if you can not have to deal with it, it might be better.

Or if you have it, whatever one of the things that I always say that you can't be defined by that. You can't be defined by what's your obstacle. You have to be defined by what you do despite that. Well, think of dyslexia, right? Right. The most resourceful group of coping and solving is the amount of CEOs that are, we was just talking with a friend today about this because their son is dyslexic, is including Napoleon and Albert Einstein.

Danny Glover. Or Caesar. Yeah. I mean, it's like the amount of CEOs that are Fortune 500 company CEOs that are dyslexic are huge. Right. And so it's like getting people to understand, hey, maybe the way the system isn't working for you.

Right. But how do you navigate? Yeah, yeah. And for yourself. Yeah. Because I also just think that's what life is. A hundred percent. Like, hey, every day is in balloons and, you know, bubbles and strawberries.

Right. It's like, shit's hard. Yeah. And it flows. in and out though. Right, exactly. It'll get, it'll be hard. It'll get easy.

You'll have a laugh. Yeah. It'll get hard again. Right. You know, it's just constant. Yeah. But it seems like, in that same interview, do you know who I'm talking about? Probably Dr. Sarah Saras, I think, from what you're saying.

Yeah. Because she kept saying, like, we're in this great time where the dialogue is, we're talking about all of this stuff. It's like this great moment where we never spoke about any of this. And now we have this opportunity where people, mental health is like, like in commercials for Coke or whatever, you know, like it, which is great, but I almost, we can almost talk it to death, like it's too much, you know. I would agree with that.

And maybe that's, if someone were to hear this, they'd be like, oh, they're old farts and they're of a time, you know, like our parents said children to be seen and not heard, right? Yeah. And then we did it one way. Right. But I think I always go back to a natural way of being, meaning nature. And I just think there's things in life that are hard.

And I think that we're hardwired. Yeah. Like even you'll hear things about like generally, not all, women are prone to more negative emotion than men. Right. And I'm sure there's a biological reason. Sure. Who's safe? Who's not safe?

Right. Whatever. And then we live in a different world that sometimes these mechanisms like eating, it's, we overdo it. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's, I mean, the old fart thing, it's like, yes, but you also know that what a mess you were when you were growing up.

You know how. Such a mess. Insecure. And we all, and I can say it in general terms because we've all walked into a room as a teenager and been horrified and had someone break up with you and it was just insane. Did you have a hard go of it when you were a teenager? Not, yes. Really? On the outside, you would say, no way.

Yeah, okay. An athlete and just enjoying himself in class class. and all that stuff. But on your moments, you're just also like, you know, crying because this girl was doing whatever and your dad was mean. And we, it's, that's why I say like in general terms, we kind of all go through all of it. And you just got to find a way. You just got to find a way. I'd be interested to see in this overcorrection if there's a group that goes back to kind of some version of suck it up a little. Yeah. And I don't mean just pack it down, shove it, ignore it. I'm all about like, hey, let's get it out there and move on. But there is a level of like

we got to kind of deal with stuff. I'm curious to see if the pendulum, because we are an intense overcorrection to a lot of things right now. Yeah. And you know, the other part like, yeah, kids being able to talk to a therapist and you can't really talk to your folks. Like you just have your own stuff. Like it's better than just like talking to your friend. who's getting high. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Like, that is,

that's, it is positive. I think that's, that's, that's totally cool. Yeah. Because we don't have, like, aunties and uncles and grandma anymore.

That's what we used to do. Yeah. So we used to have these built-in communities where we could vent to someone other than the person that was our parent, which we need. Yeah. That's a great point. And I think,

so we just, it's just in an adaptation. Like, okay, we live in a different world. We're not as in our family circles the way we were, like down the block. So, okay, great,

have someone. I've had my youngest, through a lot of stuff that we arrived on learning a ton of stuff from therapy. But even my youngest daughter, she's high strong. I can relate. I was very similar to her when I was young. Yeah. And she said to me, you know, a year ago, hey, you know, I'm having something I can't work out. And I don't really want to talk to you and dad about it. Can I talk to somebody that's not connected to you guys? And I was like, absolutely. Right. And she just took charge and it was a one, you know. So I like that idea of like, yeah, I need to talk to an adult or something.

Right. That is great. And then that the society is open to that and has made it okay for people to like go seek that without any stigma is great. But try to also talk to somebody who's giving you the tools that you don't need them. Right. I mean, if you can. So as a parent, like if you're looking for somebody, the whole idea is to find somebody too that's teaching this child a level of self-inquiry that then eventually they wouldn't need. Right. Exactly. That's where for me I got, I really was like, oh, this is where I distrust part of this system. Right. Yeah. Right. Exactly. How long is this, we're just going to be doing this forever? There's no getting better. Well, that's it. And there's another part of this that I've learned actually through doing the podcast. Yeah. Which is if the more we can move thoughts, which anxiety is a thought, it's not a feeling, all these things into the body.

and recognize it and then learn to move it out of the body, that actually is more important than just continuing to ruminate over thoughts. What do you mean by moving into the body? Well, so for example, there's a neuroscientist, Dr. Russell Kennedy, who talks about he had very intense anxiety himself. He had a really heavy-duty childhood, a schizophrenic father who was suicidal, a lot of stuff. Right. But what he talked about is when people go, I have anxiety,

but that's because it's the thoughts. But if we can figure out how to feel what we're going through, so he said, for example, for him, when he would experience feeling anxious, he could feel it in his soul of plexes. And so it was like, oh, there it is. Okay, I see it. Learn to kind of comfort yourself and then move it through.

The problem is when we keep everything in the mind, the narrative, it just goes round and round and round, and it never leaves. Right. I mean, if you look at every grade, philosopher from the beginning of time, they all have versions of this where they talk about sort of ways that if we can shift perspective and how we see things, we can be liberated from

the thing that we don't like. Right, but isn't that more manipulating your thoughts? There's no like physical manifestation of that. Well, that's why they talk about cognitive therapy alone may not be the best solution. That really having some other ways of bringing it into other parts of you would be a better healing from something, especially if someone's had a heavy-duty trauma, let's say. Right. So I think that's the next thinking I'm seeing a lot in my show, which is like people kind of saying, let's expand instead of sitting from a chair with a guy with a notepad.

Right. Just thinking all the time. That there's, if there can be movement, because then there's the healing. Right. Right. You ever read Sarno, Dr. Sarno, the back manifestation of pain? It's through the back. I mean, the anxiety.

The anxiety and you have like a physical, because your brain can focus on tightness in your neck more than it can, whatever anger or trauma you had as a child. And you don't even have to recognize what that trauma was. All you have to do is be aware that your busy brain is up to something. And that's why. And just acknowledging that, it'll eventually free up and go away.

And I think that's where we talk about that self-inquiry part. Well, they say the brain's a meaning maker, right? So it's always got to make a meaning. Like, I'm feeling this way. Well, let me make a reason why. Right. So it's just always, it's doing its job. Yeah.

And that's the other thing is the more we can understand certain things, then the more we can also be grace, kind to ourselves to be like, oh, I know why I'd feel that way, but I don't have to. Yeah, yeah. You ever wake up in the morning with a vague feeling of anxiety? And then you're like, you like, why? You try to find something to attach it to. And you're like, everything is kind of line.

up. Yeah. Well, maybe it's just the news. Yeah. I sometimes wake up with like, it's almost like dread. Yeah, right. Like you wake up and you're just like, oh my God, another day. I got to head into this thing.

You're like, right. And then you realize like if I take a couple deep breaths and I just start with like putting water in my face and brushing my teeth. Yeah. I can just start there. Right. You know. And I think that people, we feel, I had a friend of mine recently say to me, her name's

Katie. When have we ever had a thought that wasn't about ourselves, right? Right. And I was like, yeah, sure. And so I think sometimes we feel so alone in all of our unique experiences. Yeah. And it's just once we can and maybe even have fun with that in the way of like, oh, this is so ridiculous today. Short of like real serious things.

Sure. Yeah, yeah. No, just that kind of. But humor helps get through so much, even though awful stuff as you have made a real understanding of. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think if we're watching, oh, we were watching Stranger Things the other night. And it's just tons so well. And we have like the last one.

Have you watched it? No, I watched the first series, but I haven't, my daughter hasn't been around, so I've been sat with her. Right. Yeah, I know. That's what, it's been on so long that we went through watching it all together to watching it with one. And now it's just my wife and I trying to find the hours to do it. And it's just so well.

It's just that Spielberg's summer blockbuster feel. They just nailed it. But anyway, she, someone's in real trouble and he makes a joke. And she's like, sense of humor is still intact. That's a good sign. And it really is. And I went through this period where I was thinking, well, maybe I'm not. I think we talked about in your podcast is being funny and finding humor in it all the time,

a lack of sincerity. But I've really spit out the other side. I'm like, I'm much better off. having a laugh about this stuff, then really grinding it out and just... Well, you've considered it enough to actually know what's funny about it. Yeah. If I think about it. Right.

And I think there's something to be said for, I'm sure, when it's really serious and humor isn't, you probably, that probably comes later. Right. So as long, for me, it's like, it's necessary. There was a great gentleman named Rich Devaney, and he wrote a book called 25 Attributes. And one of the things he talked about those, he was a Navy SEAL and trained Navy SEALs. And he said, listen, all of it's valuable in those moments. Right. Like, you need one guy who's a narcissist to do something specific.

You need the guy who's like, oh, you know, it's kind of loud in here. Like, you know, when they're like doing the insurgents. Like, you need all of it in life. Yeah, to balance it all out. You do. Yeah. What stupid thing that you do around the house? you catch yourself doing that you didn't do before that makes you laugh.

Like what, uh, like, I'm just, oh, what are my stupid thing? Like I find myself, when I'm on the road, I find myself,

uh, in the hotel, um, not being, like in, in a new space, like my eyesight's not that great. So if my classes are on the table,

trying to find where the bathroom door is, just that, I'll literally find myself like laughing at myself because I'm, now Mr. Magoo in a hotel room. I understand that a little bit. I think for me it's just my daughter's always joke about my wipe down the counter person.

There's a part of me that really likes a very stark and clear environment to function. But sometimes, you know, when you observe yourself and you go, look at this idiot, wiping down the counter for like the sixth time today, you know. And maybe it's a defense, there is the possibility that it's a fighter, you're trying to keep yourself from fight or flight. Sure. So you're like cleaning and organizing. So I observe myself now.

Yeah. Doing all of it all the time. Yeah. Like I'll be doing the thing and I'm like, you could stop, but I'll just watch myself do it. That's more fun. You know, like all that. I do the same thing. Whenever there's a stressful conversation going on, I just, and we're in the kitchen,

I just start putting everything in its place, doing like the deep clean, like further than like normal. Oh yeah. And I remember as a kid being in, we're in this group therapy thing. My sister was going through this thing. And I remember watching this guy who was a father of one of the other kids just taking this styrofoam cup and nicking it. He was just making a pattern in the styrofoam cup. And I remember I was like a freshman in college being like, oh, he's trying to get order.

He's trying to work. We're in chaos right now. he's everyone's freaked out about their children but he's he's trying to he's carving out some sanity for himself or some control yeah look this is these are four on this side and there's four on that side yeah exactly it's equal yeah i've been in those group therapy things and it is fascinating those are far out and the best is like our mind between myself and my daughter was pretty peaceful but um there was a girl who was very big and athletic and tall next to us and she's

like, yeah, I can't stand my dad, and he hasn't been there, blah, blah, blah. And the guy's, like, sitting six inches away. And I was like, and you see him like a nice Midwest guy. And he's just like, oh, yeah, well, I guess I'm, mm-hmm, you know. But then it's part of it makes me think that it's also, like, when it comes at us, that it's like, okay, am I paying a price for something? And so if I pay attention and I try to learn the lesson, maybe we get to graduate from this. And I always feel like, weirdly, and people have to remind themselves. of this, sometimes it's really an opportunity, right? So if your partner comes to you with something

like, I need to tell you something or your kids, they're actually providing an opportunity rather than not. Right. Even though it sucks and it's uncomfortable and maybe you don't want to hear it. Right. Just sometimes you can flip it in your head. It took me a long time to learn this, but I sometimes I'll get like cold sweats in my armpit when it's coming and my temperature rise. I'm like, this person, this, you know, kid or this layered or whatever. Yeah. And then I'm like, No, just listen. Mm-hmm. Just accept it.

Just see. And it's so much better because they're trusting you enough, even if your kids like, and I can't stand you, they're still trusting you enough to give you the opportunity to interact. Right. Versus they're held up in their room. And they need their privacy too. I'm not saying that. But it's like they never talk to you. Fine.

Okay. Yes. No, sometimes it's good if they're giving you a little like, wow. Yeah. It's being, yeah. Yeah, sometimes, yeah, sometimes you actually, during that stage, sometimes you really crave it. It's like, just say anything to me at this point. Well, and it's, it's that chance.

And like, I've learned that sometimes I'll be like, okay, I can take a look at that. I had to apologize to my youngest daughter the other day because I was reacting to her entire life on one thing. You know, like, is she going to get a job? She's entitled. Is she going to home? Right. And it was about getting a green tea at Starbucks. Right.

And I had to say to her, like, I had to say, hey, listen, I'm sorry. I was thinking about this, this and this. And I'm overdoing it. And I'm sorry. And she was like, no, I understand. Because we've gone through other things with her two sisters. She's like, I mean, based on those two. Right.

And she's like, but I'm not them. And, you know, give me a little thing. But in that moment, oh, there's nothing too. And you have to also apologize to your kids. That's a fun one. Yeah. Because you know it's like, it's time. You're sitting to yourself.

You go, no, you actually have to apologize. Yeah, this is on me. I know. There's nothing better. There's nothing funnier to me when she'll say something like, she'll make some statement of well we shouldn't be doing it we shouldn't be leaving at five because you know or I'm never really late I just do this that then whatever it is yeah these are bad examples but she'll declare something and I'll just go yeah you're right and she's like what like stunned

but it is why not you know that's my new thing is they know probably they're aware of a lot more than I am give it to them yeah Just, yeah, okay, you're right. You win. Or they come to you and they're like, mom, can you, can you drive me to the thing in two minutes? And normally, you're like a little warning. I've got stuff to do. But I'm just like, all right, let's go.

My husband does that way better than I do. Does he? Yeah. I'm like, I need some warning. And he's like, gets in the car, you just moves and goes. I'm like, oh, amazing. I have to be, I have to go to CVS because I have a project due tomorrow. Yeah.

Well, you should have planned this. How long have you known about it? Exactly. Just get in the car, get the keys, let's go. Or the supply show up from DoorDash. I'm like, what the hell? Who's ordering this? Postmates, whatever.

Yeah. I wanted that. That's my new thing, too. I want that. Did you order two? Right. Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah.

It's so good. No, but COVID has been, it's been a really interesting observation. It's made me, honestly, though, it's made me a little sad and when I say that I mean it in the way of like you wonder when you get to certain phases of life

if this is where exactly in the natural part of where it would be but it did feel like the entire culture took a hard turn and it happened it felt like it really accelerated like I did like I was like oh you know I've heard

that part for me felt a little sad and the hope for me is that and I understand we have things to change or shift yeah and that process is is ugly but there's a part of me that's like oh i i wonder if we can get back to um you know nuanced disagreement like you and i can be friends but maybe we don't agree on every single thing right like i would be okay with that right like that would be pretty cool if we could sort of have a little bit more of that room oh 100%. So that part made me sad but it also made me really sure about why i want to be part like you're

selling laughter. I want to sell the encouragement to remind people that taking care of yourself is time really well spent. I felt this way my entire adult life, but it's something, and it's whichever way works for them. Yeah. And I always say, listen, it's not about six-pack abs. It's just about overall well-being. Yeah. Well, no, that's great. That's what's great about your podcast and just your whole outlook was and I carried it and to the you know you were the last visit that I had. Yeah it was. I know and I I but I was very very quickly it was our we can go two directions here when

everything was being locked down like we can get a little better at working out and making your bed and doing your things and sticking to this and putting pants on every day or we could just start eating, drinking, and sitting in sweatpants. And I just consciously was like, we're not going that way. And it made all the difference. I followed you, though. I was enjoying all your baking. I would be like, oh, what's Tom, Papa making?

Well, this is your bread. Thank you. It just came out today, this morning. I heard you on Rogan, I think the last time you were on, and I was like, he brought bread to Austin. That's amazing. Yeah. It makes your carry-on smell.

great. It really does. And yesterday during the fourth, we had people coming over and some families came by and I was grilling and doing all this stuff. But your bread, in between it all, I had to go up and fold the bread and stuff so it would be ready to bake for today. Thank you. So yeah. I will enjoy it this evening. My husband did inform me before I left that he would, because I cook at home, you know, I'm a big cook. And that's one of his love languages, like nothing better than just putting a bunch of food. He's so happy. And, um, and he, he goes, I think I'm going to be fasting today or for a couple days, maybe for a few days. And I'm thinking, you know, first of all, that's like stuff you do and like, we all go out of town. Right. I don't want to be living with you

when you're not eating. And then like, I'm eating, but it's like, you know, you know, you do have to declare it though. I know, but he said it was so, so, and I was thinking in my mind, I go, well, you won't get any Tompapa's bread. I was thinking that when I was, baking it. I was like, I don't know where they'll be in their fitness, but there's always people around. When somebody makes you bread, you know what you do? Eat it. You eat it. That's the thing about life. I know. The thing about being fit is also like have a be in check. Right. That's not get crazy. Yeah, let's enjoy our lives to some degree. I know. When you said before, when you said you were a little sad about, um, um, about COVID and you ended up with the dialogue,

but it sounded like before that, that you said the timing of what we have and stuff, was that part of the sadness that we did lose two years? Yeah, I mean, two years for me, I feel for the young people more than anybody else, someone trying to either finish you up in high school or go into college or launch into the world, I really felt for them.

And I have an adult daughter, and anytime I meet young adults, I'm like, listen, also have some kindness because I've said this before, there's times to thrive and expand. And it felt like this last two years was time to manage. Yeah. Like keep your shit together. Yeah. I didn't.

So if people weren't like what I'm doing, it was like, hey, don't worry. Yeah. Like it's not maybe time for that. But I guess it just feels for me, when I say sad, time loss, but also that what was happening in the time was so it felt really just combative. Right. And I'm, and I, weirdly, I mean, you wouldn't know it, but I am very, like, I am sensitive. And you just see that people, there's a lot of suffering. Yeah.

A lot of angst and pain and suffering. No, when you said earlier about the empathy trying to, you guys were like, Yeah, because anytime I saw those videos of people losing their shit on an airplane. Oh, yeah. And it wasn't like people just acting like assholes. This is, these were people who were suffering. Suffering. breaking down mentally just not able to it was a scary thing that was an intense thing that we all got spit out the other end well and people are not supposed to be locked away you know like you're supposed to go and walk around and have a laugh and visit with somebody and so unnatural and that that for me was the thing that i was like oh because when we all talk about like oh well don't eat gluten and work out it's like yeah but do you have relationships whatever that harvard study you

You know, the oldest study that there is. It's on the Harvard study. It's on, I think it's, I want to say, it's close to 80 years old. And there's been only three directors of the study. But they studied and all these people from Harvard, but they also took a high risk area around the Boston area during that same time. Some guys became presidents. Some were millionaires.

Some lost everything. Right. It was all kinds. But they said that they could tell you what their life would be like or end up like or the feeling of satisfaction by the time. they were 50 based on their connections. Their relationships. Right.

And he goes, listen, some guys and their wives, they commits and they love to kind of banter. Other guys, it was different. It wasn't how. It was that they had meaningful connection. Right. Yeah. That was such an isolating thing. It was rough.

Yeah. We actually took her drive with the girls. And this was like the first year. So my, she was the end of her senior year. Oh. I mean, really, doing the math of it now is like, that was a chunk. Like, that was, because even if you didn't visit people or do things, like, like, you hadn't seen people in a year, and then you tag that on, like, that was a chunk of your short little life.

But we went for a ride down through Malibu just to, and it was the time where they wouldn't even let you stop on the side of the road. They were, like, waving you. Like, and we had all these great intentions, like, let's just go see nature. Let's go see. Let's go drive. And the kids both broke down in the backseat. A song came on from them, like, having, like, party time, like a year ago. And, like, everything was like, it was like this simulation.

It was like, everything should be, it looks out the window. Everything should be great. And the song's playing. They're weeping inside. And they're just crying. And your wife's in stoic silence, you know? And then the dad's like, I don't know what to do in this situation. It's going to be great.

It's all right. We'll just, screw these guys. Let's pull over anyway. It's an ice cream. I don't know. It is. It's a really interesting. What about for you? Did you feel rusty like going back on stage when you hadn't been? Did you, how did you feel? Yeah, it was kind of the surprise was that it was, you know, because we all have this thing where if you're not on stage, like every week, you think you've lost it. Yeah. And this went like a year, you know. I started poking around pretty early. Like I found places to go. Yeah. And stuff. But it was all in the South, right? Well, yeah, I had this fine line where I canceled one in Arizona because that just seemed like I'm not doing that. I can't bring this disease home to my family.

But I found places where I knew the owners and thought maybe it would be okay. And I was even thinking about that the other day. Like I was a couple times, there's five people on a plane, you know, going through the airport with nobody. But I was doing it. I had to go do it in some regard. But as far as the rusty part, it was kind of. of you realize, oh, 25 years of doing this. I do this.

Yeah. I kind of. That must be pretty great, though, to have that relationship with something that you go listen on certain nights, it's better than others, but I can show up because it's a craft that I know is very hard and that you hone. And obviously certain people are more naturally, you know, gifted at it than others. But it is it, it must be nice that you can be like, oh, I can. can do it. Yeah, no. And it was kind of comforting. And it was nice. It was nice to be off the road

and not be hammering it out all the time. And creatively, just as far as the act, it gave you room to breathe and like, oh, I can talk about these other things. You get kind of set in this way of working. It was nice to blow it all apart for a minute. Yeah, deconstruct the whole thing. Yeah. But now I feel it coming, constricting again. When you say that, what do you mean? The bits itself? Yeah, like there's not the looseness that we all had, I think, coming back was like, well, you know, it was a new, it was kind of an openness and like just let ideas flow. And I remember thinking this would be great to kind of keep this freedom.

And I have in some regard, but like I'm going to be shooting another special soon. So it dictates that you start to set things in stone a little bit. Right. You got to get the blade all the way. Yeah. Yeah. So, and it's like, oh, right, I have to, which is okay. But there was that freewheeling kind of openness that I really, really enjoyed.

When you shoot a special, is it, do you shoot like two shows in one night and they take both kind of thing? And then they edit. And then we edit it together. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, is it, I know you're relaxed with things, but is it, do it? Do you kind of the night before, are you restless and not sleeping? Or are you kind of like, okay, I've baked this thing.

I've tried the bits out in all these different ways and we're good. It's still a thing. There's still cameras and, you know, I roll into, you know, San Diego by myself. And I'm sitting there doing, you know, backstage like a comedy monk, you know. And if I don't have an opening act sometimes, I just do the whole hour and a half myself. I'm very much alone. And then on shoot night, there's cameras and people and agents and Netflix people. And, like, you know, like, this is, this is different.

So you've got to kind of center because, you know, you're aware something's going on. You know what I mean? How fortunate, though, to have a job that if you're willing, you can do forever. Yeah, it is. It is a pretty great thing. Like I don't think about in terms of retiring. And especially now that I'm, I just finished my third book, that's writing books, writing. That thing you could do when no one wants to look at your wrinkled face anymore on stage.

You know what I mean? I think about that in fitness. I'm like, oh my God, what am I aging out of this thing? Seriously, like you're in your bathing suit, cool training. It's like, oh my God, what's the clock on this bad boy? Yeah, but it's kind of a right time. now. Like, this is, right?

Because really, because people are doing it so much longer. The only people are my age. No, but it's like people, like, the idea that my parents are 76. And when they talk about someone who has a negative medical thing at their age, it's like they're talking about it happening at 40. Right. Right? Yeah.

Like, they're like, he's only 76. I hear that. Like, oh, they're pretty young. of like 70. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. I know. Yeah. Well, I think that that's the important thing is no matter what we're doing is we start to forecast the limits on it versus we'll just see what happens. Right. Let's see how long it goes. Yeah, just keep going. Why not? I know. Yeah. I really don't like doing the math on any of it. Yeah, and I won't be in a bikini too much longer. Let's just say that. Okay. I've already been looking at like really tight whole body suits and things for pool training. I have. I'm like,

be hydrodynamic on top of it. That's hilarious. You posted a picture the other day of you and like 20 guys. Oh, the boys. Yeah. The boys. Yeah. And it was like there wasn't one guy in that shot that wasn't just ripped in perfect shape. Yeah, that was a weird group. Yeah. That was like an extra. That we call that extra. That's extra. Like a lot of like fighters, big wave surfers. Yeah. You know, football players. Right. We call that an extra. It really looked pretty intimidating. You didn't have one guy. with love handles in the group. But you know, it's funny is it always cracks me up that I've been in this space this long. And all the toughest people I know are the people who maybe are the most well-balanced

as far as like either athletically or fitness. Right. The aesthetic doesn't really, it isn't like, rar, you know, like I'm 6%. You know, what you start to learn is the people who mentally, physically and spiritually are kind of operating at their highest level. Yeah. They, they usually, they just look really healthy. Right.

You know. It just comes through. Yeah. It's not, well, he's shredded. It's like, yeah, but they, you know, the imbalances or he's a, it's not his goal. But it took for him to look like that. He's a sociopath. Right.

You know, it's like, whatever. Yeah. He hasn't eaten a carb in 10 days. But, you know, so I guess for me that, that is the, when we talk about, uh, well, being well. It's not ignoring any of the areas and really trying to get people to, to develop all of it. Right. You know, spend a little time. A little balance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, it's, yeah, it's, it's amazing how you have to relearn everything all the time, isn't it? Like, you literally have to, I mean, your husband and yourself are such great athletes and you've lived this life, your whole adult life is living that way. But you still

seem from the outside to still have to remind yourself like, oh wait, why am I doing this? And why is eating this better than that? And I get homework. Yeah. I have a young lady that's been working on me and I'm like, hey, can you send me four to 10 exercises that I can start to incorporate? I will do them every day for 30 days. Right. Because I need to make some changes. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It's great. It's not static. They say that everything is always changing, except I did learn this, flow state. Flow state. Yeah, they say flow state is the only thing that's always the same, but that everything else is always changing.

So once we enter flow, apparently, there's a sameness to it that apparently shows up. Interesting. Yeah. So the only thing that doesn't change is the thing that we really can't define. fine. And it's hard to get into. Right. People go, were you in flow state a lot when you played volleyball?

And I was like, I can maybe remember, like as a professional, maybe six times. Yeah. You know, I think athletes that are in nature go into flow more often. Yeah. Because they probably have to. Right. To do what they're doing. Yeah.

But I was like, yeah, I think like six times I was in flow state. It was amazing. Saw the ball. Everything was in slow motion. Yeah. I could hit it exactly where I wanted it. But literally. you can kind of counter it on one side.

Yeah, it's so crazy. You probably go into a form of flow state when you're doing stand-up. Yeah, there's certain times when you feel like this is, you're just so present. This is so present and so effortless and you're just kind of along for the ride. Yeah. Rather than like pretending and pushing it. It's so great though. What about like people who can deal with the audience?

I always love that. Yeah. What's the one woman, Jessica? Wait, what's her name? She's a lady, she seems like a New Yorker. Her son? Yeah. Yeah.

With the way she banters with the audience, I'm like, oh my gosh. I know. She's so funny. She's amazing. Yeah. So funny. Oh, she's, I secretly wanted to talk to her, but she probably like, how am I going to, like, what are we going to talk about?

Oh, she'd be great. No, but, you know. She's always talking about her way. No, seriously, why do you want to talk to me? But I do. I love her banter with the audience, but I think that there's a level of, you have to be right there. Oh, yeah. You have to be, you have to be, you have to be,

present. I mean, yeah, there are, you know, like anything, there's those, you can kind of fall back into ways of doing that. I hate my life. Yeah. Right, exactly. But yeah, no, to be, she would be really funny. Her Judy Gold, I think, would be good for you to interview just because. Judy Gold and I could talk about where we can find shoes. Right. Exactly. She would just be constantly, oh, stop it. You're so beautiful. I can't stand you. And I'd be like, no, where do you find long pants for real? Let's talk about things. Yeah.

Yeah, I talked to, she's a good friend. And we talked about when she was like 13 or 14. And like, she's going to be mad that I mess it up. But just six foot, you know, glasses playing the flute or some. She had some weird instrument that she was like, that she was playing. And she's just like, you're making a lot of friends. Making a lot of friends. Tell me about it.

They used to think, okay. I go, one time I had to, my mother's from Long Island. And I was raised in the Caribbean, but one, for whatever reason, one, I had to start eighth grade junior high in Long Island in the beginning. And I go there. And by now I'm probably, I don't know, I'm about 13. So I'm 6'1 easily. Right.

And they asked me if I'm a substitute teacher to come in, right? And you're like, no, I'm one of you, you know, like, one of you. Yeah, it was, it's, it's great. I have one, but my daughters are all tall, but my youngest who's very, she likes everything organized. And she's at that age where they want to be like everybody else. And secretly, I'm so glad she's just a little weird that she's tall. Because I'm like, you need that weirdness.

Right. Because whatever it tortures us when we're young is the gift, right? You know it. We all know it. I mean, and for me, just to, I was never going to be like every girl. I was six, three by 15. Right. You give up on that.

Right. You just go, okay, you know what? I can't wear the, like, Fashions. It's okay. Right. I'll get over. Conversely, like when everyone goes, you're amazing, you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Like, you can do both.

Yeah. That's the great thing. And so you hope, like, whatever is weird about you. Yeah. Or whatever the world says is weird. Right. Which, of course, is probably something awesome about you. Right.

Whatever that is. Like, oh, you're so mathematically intelligent, weirdo. It's like, yeah, okay. Yeah. Fast forward. You just want to fit in. You just want it to be easy. Just don't notice me.

Just let me just. kind of blend. Yeah. I was not blending. Right. And all my pants were way too short. You see a common theme about the inseam. Right.

Yeah. No, it's true. I'm so glad. But at a certain point where you like, was it when you were an athlete or is it like, at what point were you like, did you own it? I, well, certainly, you know, when I went into high school and then I got into more organized sports, people would ask me, I was six three and they'd be like, oh, do you play basketball or volleyball? And I go, yeah. Oh, that's why you're so tall. I'd be like, sure.

Right. so tall. Ice straight. It was a prerequisite. Yeah. The coach was like, okay, let me hit this button. All right.

Now you can play. I just love volleyball. Yeah. And then when I started, I went into the fashion business simultaneously playing college volleyball. That was interesting because I could have screwed you up. Meaning everyone was like,

you're so giant. You're so huge because in fashion I was muscular. Right. And not a size too. Right. And so the editors would be like, oh, you know, I'd have a French woman who'd be like, but oh, my, you're so tall.

You do the valetio, you do the model. you do the model and I'll be like yeah like I'm trying to make a buck and I like sports you know yeah and so it was always interesting to to really try to hold on to my own idea this and this is what I believe for all of us is like we're all very special and we're all nobody right in one same breath and the minute like I can get in touch with that like am I special enough to spend time to take care of myself right and try to love myself so I can you know have these other relationships and conversely, can I not take my shit serious? Can I have a laugh at myself?

Does it really matter? Like have those two things living so close. Yeah. So I think that really helps me develop it pretty. By the time I was 18 or 19, I was pretty, and it wasn't about owning it. It was just about being clear. What's hard, though, when you feel that way

and you're in competitive sports, that's hard. Because sometimes in competitive sports, you do need to sort of try to feel like you're dominant and I didn't have that. You didn't? No, not so much. I mean, I faked it.

Uh-huh. And I felt that way later. Right. And not dominant. I felt just in my own space. Mm-hmm. That, like, I could share it with you, but I had some too. Right.

When I was younger, it was like, you over-project probably. Yeah, you're kind of, you see that ideal and you kind of pretend it. You do. And you feel really scared, and you're not sure if you know what you're doing. Right. And there's expectation. Yeah. And you can't fake it.

No. And so that was always sort of interesting to muddle through. Right. So when you were, you were kind of getting success simultaneously, though, right? Oh, yeah. By 19, I was, you know, doing well in college and working in fashion. It was a very interesting. Right.

So that had to give you confidence. I mean, not. Well, my teammates were, they were not particularly nice about the fashion stuff. Oh, really? And like I said, you go into New York and I was working. But every day I go to the studio and they're like, oh, nothing fits. Oh, she's so big. Oh, her foot's so big.

Oh, I was like, okay. I mean, they put you in the magazine. They put you in whatever. Yeah. And then they are stitching and clipping and clamping and doing everything. Right. So that's where you have to find your center. Yeah.

Because also in sports, you win and you lose as well. Right, right. Well, that's, yeah. I mean, think about comedy. You had, I'm sure there were nights you bombed. You didn't go, you maybe thought for a second, maybe this isn't for me, but then you got up a episode. the morning and you go, here we go.

Yeah. No, that's kind of like you, yeah, it was the absence of maybe this isn't for me that confirmed like this is what I am in, I'm going to do. Yeah, even when it sucks. Yeah. Your feel off kilter and people, you know. Yeah.

You bomb, you're like, oh, all right. Yeah. Let's see what happens tomorrow. And that's, but that's, that's the power of like, um, just sticking with anything. if you feel to. If you're doing it for your real reasons, then those reasons will always keep showing up.

It's when you do what you're supposed to do, I think we get in trouble. Right, exactly. But did you have, did you, was there ever a point where you were like, peaceful with it? With doing both things? Fashion was weird for me

because I knew it had nothing to do with me. And so I was like, you're not earning this. And I was always a big earner. Like you got to work for stuff. You better earn it. Yeah, you deserve it. Yeah, because otherwise. Yeah.

That's such a bummer of that one. Oh, yeah. But it's, you know, I liken it to the way I was raised as a kid. I wasn't raised for success necessarily. People weren't talking to me about success. You know, have families that do too much the other way. You're going to be a doctor. You're going to be a lawyer.

You're going to go to Harvard. You're going to do all this. I had none of that. So what happened is when things started happening for me, I didn't know how to just say thank you. Right. And be like, I don't deserve. it, but I'll work really hard and try to, and I'll be grateful. Instead, I was like, oh, this is really uncomfortable and, you know, positive attention. Yeah, and when people say like, oh, great

job or great win, you're like, was it? Yeah, did I do my best? Yeah, the doubt. I could have hit that one harder. So I think that took me some, some minutes to work out. Yeah. Maybe like 14, 15 years. Yeah. Well, you never really completely lose it, right? There's never, There's like, I mean... No. And I never felt comfortable with like separation. Like, you know when you go on the road and like people come to see you perform and they're like, I love you. You're like, okay, that's weird.

I don't want to be separated from you. But then weirdly what happens to is then you don't want to be mingling either. It's like this weird mix of like, hey, I'm just like you. Right. But also, I'm not like, I don't want to just chill with everybody. Right. Like I got to keep moving. Yeah.

But it's this thing of, I always say it's like when you learn to receive grace and the best way you can show that you're grateful is to be a good steward of that opportunity. Of that thing. Yeah. Like you show up, you're diligent. You do your job all the way through, which means, hey, Tom, you're going to stay after and you're going to say hi to some people. Right. Cool. Right.

That's part of the job. Yeah, yeah. But then you have, but then you had to evolve. Like there was different career paths. There's different things waiting for you. Yeah. Right? by the time you quit sport and retire from that,

but then evolve into a different kind of, yeah. Yeah, I followed my heart, and I never tried to do what everybody was doing. I just stayed really, because that worked for me the first time, and it was like, just really pay attention to what you think you could do a good job at that excites you and do that. And every single time it works out. Yeah, that's that thing when you wake up in the morning and you're like,

oh, what are we doing? but then it's like you think about the stuff you're going to do it's like oh wait I get to talk to her today and I get to do that thing tonight and oh okay yeah yeah that'll be pretty good yeah yeah just kind of appreciating it as as you kind of muddle forward are you shifting now or do you feel like you're in a groove like the podcast is humming along yeah everything seems good your kids are getting my kids are getting big they're getting big and heading out yeah you're gonna be the two of you just looking at each other across the table. I always tell this story about how a friend of a friend who the kids all left the house

and he was going to dinner with his wife and wrote down talking points. No. Because he was afraid he was going to have nothing to talk with his wife about after everybody left. You weren't having discussions about where is everybody and how is she doing and all that. Yeah, talking about them. Right. Yeah. I have to say Laird and I have always made our relationship a real priority.

Yeah, that's wise. And I think we're both weirdly selfish in that way. That it's like, hey, I would like to have like a partner and a lover kind of thing. I don't want to be in a business dynamic. Right. And like if my husband calls me mom, I'm going to kill somebody. We talk about that on my radio show. You know what I mean?

It's just like, I'd like to be your lover. Like I always tell Laird this, listen, I'll cook for you. I'll serve you because he, in his way, brings it to the house. Treat me like your girlfriend. Right. We're cool. Yeah.

Like we've been together almost 27 years. Exactly. Treat me like your girlfriend. Yeah. We're going to be just fine. Yeah. And he made it very clear.

I don't know if I ever told you this. He was like, I had a mother and she died. I was like, Roger that. So all that energy, I don't even direct it. I don't even remotely put it in his. Yeah. Doesn't have to go towards him. Not even a little smidgey.

You know, and we have other businesses. we have, you know, food, company, fitness. So there's a lot to do. And I think the excitement is not to define yourself and say, well, I should be doing this or I shouldn't be doing this. I mean, obviously, I'd like to be appropriate. I'm not walking around in Daisy Dukes. Like, I get it. It's like, okay.

I understand where I am in the phase of life, you know. But it's also not being too appropriate that I'm like, why, what are rules and who makes them and why can't I break some and who's saying can or can't do stuff? Right. So I think it's like just moving and following. Yeah. Yeah. No, my wife and I were getting, we were waiting for a seat in a restaurant and we're just sitting by this fountain,

just watching people walk by. And there was like these women who were probably a little younger than her, but like walking by and like, I don't even know how to describe it. They'd given up. Yes, they'd given up. Yeah, I don't, I'm not sure exactly what they were doing. But my wife was like, Uh-uh.

Yeah. Don't give up. Yeah. I'm not doing it. Don't, don't, don't, don't, uh, don't fight it. Right. But don't give up. There's a limit.

Don't throw in the towel. Yeah. Keep on going. Yeah, exactly. I feel for it later because I still walk around the house. It is important though. Are you kidding? My husband has to look at me.

When I was leaving today, he goes, you look so pretty because I walk around our house like a 15 year old boy and workout clothes holding. I'm like, I'm so sorry, you know? But at least when I take my clothes off, I'm still fit. So I don't know to tell you, like, pick it. Do you want like a fashion queen all day long Or you want somebody who's trying to kind of keep it together Yeah, yeah

No, it's important You have to Don't give up But he was like, okay, well, have a great time with Tom And your dress and everything I was like, yeah, okay You come back and he's fasting And he's eating bread

This bread is so great Tom made it with love He was folding this on the 4th of July That's right for me and you, but you're fasting Yeah Oh my goodness Oh, it's important All that stuff is important.

So what else do people need to know? The podcast is rolling. The podcast, we have Laird Superfood. Superfood, which is an amazing... I'll have to send you more for you guys need it. No, we're good. We're stocked. We're good.

Yeah, we still get it. I send you hydrate and stuff. Yeah. Really good. I send you insta fuel for your road trips. Oh, yeah. It's hot water. But no, I just need people to know to make sure to take care of themselves.

Yeah. Go out and keep saying good morning. Even when they go, ah. Say good morning for crying out loud. You can have. have like kind of some fun with it too. Yeah. Like when people are really sour face, instead of going down like, oh, what's wrong with them? Or I shouldn't have said. I'd just be like, oh, you know, sometimes I'll be like, oh, yeah, good morning. Yeah. Like I do it back to myself all the time. Last thing, though, with the, with the empathy thing. And we both kind of carry that. Yeah. And that, okay, people were suffering and all that. But there is like this. And maybe it's just because of what we're being fed from these outlets.

But there does seem to be kind of a pride and cruelty. And we are going through shifts and changes and big Supreme Court decisions. And there is this anxiety about it all. Sometimes, I don't know, sometimes it can't all be empathy. It seems like sometimes you have to. I didn't say no, be a warrior. Yeah. But there's, but what in which direction?

Right. You know, you can't walk around with your. sword wielding your sword at all things. Right. But certainly you have to, you know, in the natural born heroes, they talked about to be a true warrior, one must be compassionate. Right. And so every person I've ever met that seems pretty formidable has both in, you know,

on both sides of the spectrum. Right. Because the problem is if you're going to be cruel and then be if I put you in a headlock or say, okay, let's go outside. Right. And you cry. That's not going to work. Right.

So, like, be cool. Yeah. And then if something needs to be protected or stood up for, then certainly do that. Right. And do that for real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't mean fighting. No, I mean just movements. Oh, yes. A lot of fights. And it never stops. Like, that's kind of the thing. Like, it's really like, this has definitely been a shift over the last couple of weeks.

And it's like, yeah, it just kind of shows that there's no. end to the struggles. Like we always have to fight and... And since forever. Since forever. If we looked at time and read history, you would see that there were things always happening. The other thing I would encourage people to do, though, is also read beyond just the

headline. Because sometimes everyone's reacting, but they're not fully, they don't really understand all the things that they're reacting to. So the other thing is, when you take up your cause, understand what it is. Right. That's really important, too, because we take everything. in bite size 15 second hits. And so the problem is if you really dug down and be like, okay, well, so this is what

you're fighting for, what is this? Right. Sometimes nobody can get past the second line. It's really true. So that's the only other thing is be a good student. Yeah, I find that myself. I'll be like, I'll say, I can't believe they pass this gun thing. And they're like, so what does it mean?

I don't know. Like two questions in and I start to falter because I'm not, I haven't schooled myself. But we all have to be good students. Yeah. All of us. Yeah. And so before, when you're going to really good. go.

Yeah. But go with also be as armed as you can. I mean, we can't possibly know all things about something, but don't take it from one source. And that's the other great thing about the internet. It can be confusing. But also there's,

if you pay enough attention, you can also link five and six sources together and sort of find these threads of truth. Yeah. That you go, this seems to be part of the truth. Right. And really pay attention.

And go beyond your bias. Right. Yeah. I can work with this. Because, yeah, we can be just as guilty of the, just sticking with the team. Yeah, and I think that life is, you know, we love for it to be black and white,

but as we all know, as we get older, most of all of life is happening in the gray. Yeah. And so how do we function in there with all one another? Yeah, I'm glad you brought up gray because I just tried to grow out my beard. It was so gray. Was it? Your lady was like, no, baby. I was like, I think I'm just going to go clean shape.

That's the kind of guy I am. It's pure vanity. That's my look. We all have it. It's okay. This was so great. I'm so happy to see you. I know, really. After, after two years, two years.

Two years. Two, three months. Yeah. Two or three months. Yeah. Well, let's hope we see each other a lot sooner this time. And go look with your special. Not that you need it. Thank you.

Yeah. We'll see. See what it turns into over the next two months. But, uh, yeah, we'll get there. Enjoy the bread. I will. We got it, Aaron. All right.

That's the big show. a big thank you to Gabby Reese. She is amazing. I literally, when the conversation ends, it keeps going when we walk out to the parking lot and then it keeps going in my head for days after. She's just so thoughtful and so inspiring. Thank you, Gabby, so much for coming. And I hope you were able to eat the bread without Laird getting too angry at you. Thank all of you for listening. I hope your summer's going well. I hope you're eating well. I hope you're making good stuff. and we'll see you next time.